MANCHESTER
Just had it confirmed today that Malaysian Airlines will be pulling out of MAN from the end of April!
More power to the rumour of a 2nd daily SIA 777?
More power to the rumour of a 2nd daily SIA 777?
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Why are MAS pulling out?
Thought their load factors were ok - and they are sending a lot of North West based travellers to Australia.
NWI-MAN on FlyBe is to be served by a Dash 8, as previously posted.
Thought their load factors were ok - and they are sending a lot of North West based travellers to Australia.
NWI-MAN on FlyBe is to be served by a Dash 8, as previously posted.
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Apparently the only European airport MAS (passenger) will continue to serve are LHR, AMS and CDG. The other (including MAN) it would appear aren't profitable. The problem with MAN-KUL must be yields if loads are good.
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Originally Posted by AlphaWhiskyRomeo
Why are MAS pulling out?
Thought their load factors were ok - and they are sending a lot of North West based travellers to Australia.
NWI-MAN on FlyBe is to be served by a Dash 8, as previously posted.
Thought their load factors were ok - and they are sending a lot of North West based travellers to Australia.
NWI-MAN on FlyBe is to be served by a Dash 8, as previously posted.
MH have admitted that:
-66 of the airlines' international routes are unprofitable while 48 are profitable.
-Of its 118 domestic routes, 114 are unprofitable!!!!
-without the implementation of the 'Rescue Plan' the company will run out of cash by April!
I don't think there is anything that MAN could have done to stop MH pulling out - MH have decided to cut their fleet by a quarter and it has been reported that 12 744s are about to go.
For those of you interested here is MH's new business plan to save the company from further losses:
http://hq.malaysiaairlines.com/mys/e...s/MASWay_F.pdf
Just look at the Table on page 30!
Good luck to MH
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This will be a sad loss to Manchesters route network, but the changing fortunes of Airlines cannot be ignored, I hope they get their act together and survive for all concerned.
However I personally would not consider feeding LHR FRA or AMS to use their consolidated service. My loyalty is with Airlines that maintain a major long haul presence at Manchester, so if I do wish to travel to Asia or Auz, Singapore,Emirates, Etihad and Qatar get the pleasure of my bum on their seats !
However I personally would not consider feeding LHR FRA or AMS to use their consolidated service. My loyalty is with Airlines that maintain a major long haul presence at Manchester, so if I do wish to travel to Asia or Auz, Singapore,Emirates, Etihad and Qatar get the pleasure of my bum on their seats !
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MAN7777 - that's spotter logic if I ever heard it. If you have to fly somewhere and are forced to change aircraft en-route, what does it matter if the change is an hour down route in AMS or 9 hours down route DXB. Are you seriously saying that if the change via a european hub was cheaper or had shorter total journey times, you'd still opt for the longer-haul hub purely and simply that the first leg of the flight was 'long-haul'. That's your own choice, but Joe Public doesn't operate that.
On a serious note, sad to see MH go, but proof that filling aircraft with Brit holidaymakers using these types of flights to connect onwards, doesn't make money. Margins historically were wafer thin on these types of routes. The fuel cost escalation has just blown what profit was there right out of the water. I actually wonder how SQ, QR etc make any money these days.
loco
On a serious note, sad to see MH go, but proof that filling aircraft with Brit holidaymakers using these types of flights to connect onwards, doesn't make money. Margins historically were wafer thin on these types of routes. The fuel cost escalation has just blown what profit was there right out of the water. I actually wonder how SQ, QR etc make any money these days.
loco
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Yes there may be a bit of "spotters logic" in there, but mainly a loyalty to my local airport trying to maintain a long haul portfolio and my local community that benefits from long haul direct routes ie inbound foreign tourists (Manchester third most visited city in UK) also the huge amount of freight that arrives in wide body holds, airline economics dont purely rely on PAX yield.
My personal experience in european transits as opposed to Middle or Far east are nothing to do with spotter mentality but everything to do with, comfort, stress, ease of use, shopping, logical break in journey approx 1/2 way, availability of stop overs etc etc.
Joe public does notice these thing and votes with its feet or bums, the success of Emirates UK regional routes is proof of that.
Through experience I avoid LHR in its present form like the plague, FRA is not much better, AMS is OK but again why stretch my feet 1 hr into the journey when I can break the journey 1/2 way.
I would like to know if QF are interested in regaining the passengers that it lost on the termination of its MAN flights, with a MAN service reinstated.
My personal experience in european transits as opposed to Middle or Far east are nothing to do with spotter mentality but everything to do with, comfort, stress, ease of use, shopping, logical break in journey approx 1/2 way, availability of stop overs etc etc.
Joe public does notice these thing and votes with its feet or bums, the success of Emirates UK regional routes is proof of that.
Through experience I avoid LHR in its present form like the plague, FRA is not much better, AMS is OK but again why stretch my feet 1 hr into the journey when I can break the journey 1/2 way.
I would like to know if QF are interested in regaining the passengers that it lost on the termination of its MAN flights, with a MAN service reinstated.
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Going loco. You're completely wrong to describe MAN777 as displaying spotters logic. I'd do exactly the same thing, for one reason and one reason only....
The economy of regional Britain gains immeasurably from having connections to Singapore, Chicago, Atlanta etc. This is probably not apparent to someone from Dorset.
Many many overseas firms locate in Greater Manchester, and the West Midlands also, precisely because you can get to and from them from a wide variety of places.
I would never use a connection via another EU airport (including LHR), if a long-haul connection from MAN wasn't available first. Thankfully, it's never happened yet.
The economy of regional Britain gains immeasurably from having connections to Singapore, Chicago, Atlanta etc. This is probably not apparent to someone from Dorset.
Many many overseas firms locate in Greater Manchester, and the West Midlands also, precisely because you can get to and from them from a wide variety of places.
I would never use a connection via another EU airport (including LHR), if a long-haul connection from MAN wasn't available first. Thankfully, it's never happened yet.
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Does anyone have any idea what the line up outside T3 is likely to be next week when the summer schedules start. BMI are aleady taking over some of the check in desks and I hear that Baby are likely to be moving across first. Where will the BA machines end up? There isn't enough room and the Emberaers and Dash's can't even use the airbridges.
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BMI Baby move to T3 on Sunday. I have heard that the majority of flights will be bussed to T3 from remote stands and gates 1,2 & 3.
I think the congestion will arrive when BD mainline arrive, and try and fit two A330s on T3, along with AA's 2 767s and BA's 767, too.
I think the congestion will arrive when BD mainline arrive, and try and fit two A330s on T3, along with AA's 2 767s and BA's 767, too.
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[QUOTE=Going loco]MAN7777 - that's spotter logic if I ever heard it.
GOING LOCO
As the posts below yours point out - you are wrong.
I choose my flights on the basis of use it or lose it. Obviously, there is a limit to that kind of indulgence ie if there wasn't a daily flight, I wouldn't delay my trip. Business is business. NOT spotter logic.
There are definite economic benefits in having extensive flights from regional airports, not just for the regions concerned but for THE UK AS A WHOLE.
Being in Manchester's orbit means I am luckier than most in the UK regions but it allows me to run my business from a place that is not London.
GOING LOCO
As the posts below yours point out - you are wrong.
I choose my flights on the basis of use it or lose it. Obviously, there is a limit to that kind of indulgence ie if there wasn't a daily flight, I wouldn't delay my trip. Business is business. NOT spotter logic.
There are definite economic benefits in having extensive flights from regional airports, not just for the regions concerned but for THE UK AS A WHOLE.
Being in Manchester's orbit means I am luckier than most in the UK regions but it allows me to run my business from a place that is not London.
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regarding the availability of stands for the rush to T3, Is it possible that we might see the use of the "very remote" stands that were constructed in the passing bay at the 24R end of the runway. Also I have often thought that the regional jets take up so much space on airbridges. Why cant they be crammed into a large stand. When Manchester hosted the euro football finals we had 8 Eurofly A320s on 2 adjacent stands. lets get creative !
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Other than changing the phrase "spotters logic" to "airport enthusiast's logic", I think I'll stick by my point. As noble as it is that you would pro-actively choose a long-haul connection over a short-haul connection to support the local economy or because of some other perceived kudos that you attach to long-haul, you have to accept this is not the behaviour the travelling masses exhibit. As a random example, if I were choosing to fly to Bangkok this weekend, there are a wealth of connecting options available from MAN. LH via FRA is the quickest (12h 35m). Alternatives are LX via ZRH (13h 25m), AF via CDG (13h 45m), SK/TG via CPH (13h 55m), BA va LHR (14h 10m) or EK via DXB (15h 15m). My choice would be a rational decision on price, journey length, preferred airline, past experiences and so on. From what you've said, you'd automatically discount all of the short-haul options in favour of EK purely and simply because the first leg of your journey would be classed as "long haul" The fact is, that it is the very wide range of connecting options available from MAN (as shown above) that adds weight to the region as a place to do business. The short-haul options are just as valuable as the long-haul ones, more so given the frequency and their geographic advantages.
loco
loco
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LOCO
Not sure where this thread is going, regardless of whether or not I am a spotter or enthusiast, I am still a regular member of the traveling masses. You seem to use the same criteria as me when looking for a flight, so we arent much different, the only difference I can see is business travel where the business person goes as direct as possible, as quick as possible and cost is not an option. Yes the euro hubs appear to have the edge re timings but the difference is really quite small. From experience I would rather spend 3 hours in air conditioned shopping heaven (with the no extra cost stopover option) than joining the masses pouring off shuttles for the inter terminal sprint !.
Yes there is kudos attached to long haul routes for all concerned and what is wrong with that, Manchester airport has worked very hard attracting these routes and its a shame that some fail. Manchester does not want to be purely a feeder airport for the euro hubs, but it is a fact that it cannot realistically compete with them right across the board. But what it has achieved is a broad spectrum of flights (domestic, european, long haul, bucket and spade, locost, freight etc.) this approach I believe protects the airports income during downturns. What would happen to Stansted if Ryanair failed ?.
The travelling masses have brains regardless of what some aircrew think (joke) and they expect high standards, that is why the middle east airlines are queing up for a slice of the market regardless of where the final destination is. I and many of my fellow travellers would prefer direct long haul but if we cannot have that then pseudo long haul will do for now.
I dont have access to transit passenger figures for the airports concerned, but if anyone does and would like to contribute to the discussion, feel free.
Not sure where this thread is going, regardless of whether or not I am a spotter or enthusiast, I am still a regular member of the traveling masses. You seem to use the same criteria as me when looking for a flight, so we arent much different, the only difference I can see is business travel where the business person goes as direct as possible, as quick as possible and cost is not an option. Yes the euro hubs appear to have the edge re timings but the difference is really quite small. From experience I would rather spend 3 hours in air conditioned shopping heaven (with the no extra cost stopover option) than joining the masses pouring off shuttles for the inter terminal sprint !.
Yes there is kudos attached to long haul routes for all concerned and what is wrong with that, Manchester airport has worked very hard attracting these routes and its a shame that some fail. Manchester does not want to be purely a feeder airport for the euro hubs, but it is a fact that it cannot realistically compete with them right across the board. But what it has achieved is a broad spectrum of flights (domestic, european, long haul, bucket and spade, locost, freight etc.) this approach I believe protects the airports income during downturns. What would happen to Stansted if Ryanair failed ?.
The travelling masses have brains regardless of what some aircrew think (joke) and they expect high standards, that is why the middle east airlines are queing up for a slice of the market regardless of where the final destination is. I and many of my fellow travellers would prefer direct long haul but if we cannot have that then pseudo long haul will do for now.
I dont have access to transit passenger figures for the airports concerned, but if anyone does and would like to contribute to the discussion, feel free.
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[QUOTE=Going loco]Other than changing the phrase "spotters logic" to "airport enthusiast's logic", I think I'll stick by my point.
Going Loco - not sure exactly what your problem is.
I certainly am not a spotter or airport enthusiast but someone who cares about the economic future of the region I live in. Manchester Airport is at the heart of that economic future and I for one depend intensely on it for the success or otherwise of my business. That's why I check out this website regularly.
I make decisions on routings based on first (selfish) business and second (noble as you put it) economic reasons. Since I spend north of £50k a year on air travel it's worth doing. That is my perogative as a paying punter. I don't need some remote person like yourgoodself (in Bournemouth or where ever) to tell me I'm right or wrong to do so.
All regional airports that have the benefit of long haul flights need the support of the people in the local economy and good luck to those airports that can make a go of it. Airlines are in it for the money - use the services or lose them.
Going Loco - not sure exactly what your problem is.
I certainly am not a spotter or airport enthusiast but someone who cares about the economic future of the region I live in. Manchester Airport is at the heart of that economic future and I for one depend intensely on it for the success or otherwise of my business. That's why I check out this website regularly. I make decisions on routings based on first (selfish) business and second (noble as you put it) economic reasons. Since I spend north of £50k a year on air travel it's worth doing. That is my perogative as a paying punter. I don't need some remote person like yourgoodself (in Bournemouth or where ever) to tell me I'm right or wrong to do so.
All regional airports that have the benefit of long haul flights need the support of the people in the local economy and good luck to those airports that can make a go of it. Airlines are in it for the money - use the services or lose them.