HUMBERSIDE
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brighton, England
Age: 43
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excel Airways have placed an order for 737-700, 800 and 900s. I would expect HUY will benefit from XL expansion from Summer 2007. Could they be planning on increasing frequency to the likes of Malaga and Palma, and selling them more as low cost seat only flights? The 737-700 would be the perfect a/c for route expansion from HUY to the likes of Reus, Malta, Sharm el Sheikh, Varna, Zakynthos and Kos. Maybe one of them will come to HUY.
Regards
MIke
Regards
MIke
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DSA
Why are they bothering with HUY when they could use Doncaster Sheffield?
DSA has far better facilities, and is much closer to centres of population such as Sheffield and Leeds, as well as Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc.
I know HUY is only a few miles away but people from, for example, Sheffield, won't travel to HUY when they can just as easily get to MAN. DSA however is very centrally situated and has a potentially massive catchment area. It's underutilised at the moment because people perceive it as difficult to get to (which it isn't) but all that will change when the motorway link road is opened, possibly followed by a rail link from the nearby East Coast Main Line.
DSA has far better facilities, and is much closer to centres of population such as Sheffield and Leeds, as well as Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc.
I know HUY is only a few miles away but people from, for example, Sheffield, won't travel to HUY when they can just as easily get to MAN. DSA however is very centrally situated and has a potentially massive catchment area. It's underutilised at the moment because people perceive it as difficult to get to (which it isn't) but all that will change when the motorway link road is opened, possibly followed by a rail link from the nearby East Coast Main Line.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brighton, England
Age: 43
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Humberside has held it's own against DSA, they are existing harmoniously, there should be no rivalry. Why should XL and LS not bother with HUY? DSA already has TOM, so why start duplicate routes from there, when they can operate and be well supported at HUY with no competition. 2006 will be HUY's busiest year so far, with all the new flights.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Here
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 B737-700s arriving 1st half of 2007 from ILFC
2 B737-700s arriving 1st half of 2007 from RBS
2 B737-800s arriving 2nd quarter of 2008 from GECAS
2 B737-900ERs arriving May 2008 from GECAS
2 B737-700s arriving 1st half of 2007 from RBS
2 B737-800s arriving 2nd quarter of 2008 from GECAS
2 B737-900ERs arriving May 2008 from GECAS
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've got absolutely nothing against HUY. However I have been concerned that the Manchester Airport Group were only showing interest in expanding ops from there in order to damage DSA, which they see as a major threat to EMA and MAN. Until DSA opened the vast majority of South Yorks people (including me) took their holidays via MAN, and occasionally EMA. LBA and HUY hardly got a look in. Now DSA has opened MAG can see they are losing the people who previously used MAN or EMA to DSA.
Hence they are offering Ryanair, Excel, and possibly now Jet2Com preferential deals at HUY in order to drag people away from DSA. I'm not convinced it'll be possible to rig the market like this for long, but it'll certainly be interesting to see what happens next.
Hence they are offering Ryanair, Excel, and possibly now Jet2Com preferential deals at HUY in order to drag people away from DSA. I'm not convinced it'll be possible to rig the market like this for long, but it'll certainly be interesting to see what happens next.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Brighton, England
Age: 43
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think DSA was a bit of a wake up call for HUY, but when considering the catchment area, the majority of HUY's pax come from places that are actually closer than DSA, so it is actually easier for them to use HUY. What is wrong with HUY trying to compete, it has been successful so far. HUY-DUB flights are reportedly considerably outselling DSA-DUB.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why are they bothering with HUY when they could use Doncaster Sheffield?
DSA has far better facilities, and is much closer to centres of population such as Sheffield and Leeds, as well as Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc.
DSA has far better facilities, and is much closer to centres of population such as Sheffield and Leeds, as well as Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc.
Most people want convenience (ie less time/hassle) above facilities. Just as in view of my location I always prefer to use LBA due to convenience wherever possible over MAN, which has far better facilities.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: leeds
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CentreFix25
I think the 700s would be a good aircraft for HUY.
The Avion press release says 2x 737-900ER & 4x 737-800's. I've not seen a mention of 737-700's anywhere?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North of Watford
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mpr27 wrote
"Hence they are offering Ryanair, Excel, and possibly now Jet2 preferential deals at HUY in order to drag people away from DSA. I'm not convinced it'll be possible to rig the market like this for long, but it'll certainly be interesting to see what happens next."
Do you not think that's what Peel did with DSA to try and drag people away from HUY and LBA. I wonder how much Peel are paying TUI to operate these schedules with their abysmal 20-30% load factors, or how much they offered Ezyjet to do a GVA, and RYR to do a DUB barely carrying just over 50%, both heavily committed to Peel at LPL I must say. Obviously their plan is now backfiring. DSA have a major company in TUI, the main operator there and no one else wants to to even bother competing with them now. So, if Excel do well at HUY, good luck to them and lets hope they expand. If Jet 2.com start here, I'm sure they'll do very well as they are now very well known throughout the north of England. Looking at the DSA pax figures I would'nt bother to start an operation from there.
HUY will do just fine with its catchment area and DSA's catchment area too.
HUY was here long before DSA became a pax airport, so you can't claim that they are taking away your pax. DSA will just have to build a pax base like every other airport has done. But can Peel wait that long ? they do like their huge shopping centre complexes.
Do you not think that's what Peel did with DSA to try and drag people away from HUY and LBA. I wonder how much Peel are paying TUI to operate these schedules with their abysmal 20-30% load factors, or how much they offered Ezyjet to do a GVA, and RYR to do a DUB barely carrying just over 50%, both heavily committed to Peel at LPL I must say. Obviously their plan is now backfiring. DSA have a major company in TUI, the main operator there and no one else wants to to even bother competing with them now. So, if Excel do well at HUY, good luck to them and lets hope they expand. If Jet 2.com start here, I'm sure they'll do very well as they are now very well known throughout the north of England. Looking at the DSA pax figures I would'nt bother to start an operation from there.
HUY will do just fine with its catchment area and DSA's catchment area too.
HUY was here long before DSA became a pax airport, so you can't claim that they are taking away your pax. DSA will just have to build a pax base like every other airport has done. But can Peel wait that long ? they do like their huge shopping centre complexes.
Last edited by Evileyes; 26th Feb 2006 at 22:16.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brigg
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let us all hope this will not degenerate into DSA-HUY bashing again, gets tedious, I must raise a wry smile though at mpr 27's comment:
However I have been concerned that the Manchester Airport Group were only showing interest in expanding ops from there in order to damage DSA
Forgive me if I am wrong and have missed something in all my years in business. Isn't that what it is all about, breaking the competition to maximise profits. Peel did not buy DSA as a gesture of goodwill, I do not think they are a philanthropic operation, they saw an opportunity and took it. More than likely the aviation side will go to rack and ruin, if those load factors quoted are correct but what must not be forgotten is the huge amount of development land tht came with the purchase, worth far more than aviation income any-day. Doncaster is Objective One deprived are, means people have no bunce for joliholi, therefore pax must come from elsewhere, i.e. other catchments EMA, LBA, HUY, MAN, all that happens is the pax move around and that is not fair for DSA to steal pax from these airports is it as it will 'damage' them.
Regrettably, 'all is fair in love and war.'
However I have been concerned that the Manchester Airport Group were only showing interest in expanding ops from there in order to damage DSA
Forgive me if I am wrong and have missed something in all my years in business. Isn't that what it is all about, breaking the competition to maximise profits. Peel did not buy DSA as a gesture of goodwill, I do not think they are a philanthropic operation, they saw an opportunity and took it. More than likely the aviation side will go to rack and ruin, if those load factors quoted are correct but what must not be forgotten is the huge amount of development land tht came with the purchase, worth far more than aviation income any-day. Doncaster is Objective One deprived are, means people have no bunce for joliholi, therefore pax must come from elsewhere, i.e. other catchments EMA, LBA, HUY, MAN, all that happens is the pax move around and that is not fair for DSA to steal pax from these airports is it as it will 'damage' them.
Regrettably, 'all is fair in love and war.'
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Whereever they will send a pay cheque
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
POL 1W,
Dont know where you are getting your load factors from for flights out of DSA, the cabins I see are more like 80-90% full.
Have operated into HUY as well over the years, and have always thought it was a well run show. Best of luck to HUY and its growing business.
Still a lot shorter than DSA, long enough granted on most occasions, but nothing looks better on a blustery wet day when you pop out of cloud on approach than 3 km's of runway.
I guess its going to be the Peel pound Vs the Manchester money.
BB
Dont know where you are getting your load factors from for flights out of DSA, the cabins I see are more like 80-90% full.
Have operated into HUY as well over the years, and have always thought it was a well run show. Best of luck to HUY and its growing business.
Still a lot shorter than DSA, long enough granted on most occasions, but nothing looks better on a blustery wet day when you pop out of cloud on approach than 3 km's of runway.
I guess its going to be the Peel pound Vs the Manchester money.
BB
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi bundybear & All
Heres the official DSA Passenger Stats from the CAA website for the month of Januray 2006.
Charter (TUI)
PFO 1,395 92%
LPA 2,627 77%
MIR 1,438 97%
TFS 4,739 84%
ALC 1,184 78%
LYS 922 82%
TRN 880 53%
Scheduled
RYR : DUB 6,320 54%
EZS : GVA 4,781 54%
TOM :AMS 3,001 38%
TOM :FAO 1,999 49%
TOM : PRG 3,461 53%
TOM : AGP 5,650 59%
TOM : ALC 4,595 66%
TOM : JER 1,835 35%
TOM : ORY 2,608 30%
TOM : LYS 1,395 27%
Dont know where you are getting your load factors from for flights out of DSA, the cabins I see are more like 80-90% full.
Charter (TUI)
PFO 1,395 92%
LPA 2,627 77%
MIR 1,438 97%
TFS 4,739 84%
ALC 1,184 78%
LYS 922 82%
TRN 880 53%
Scheduled
RYR : DUB 6,320 54%
EZS : GVA 4,781 54%
TOM :AMS 3,001 38%
TOM :FAO 1,999 49%
TOM : PRG 3,461 53%
TOM : AGP 5,650 59%
TOM : ALC 4,595 66%
TOM : JER 1,835 35%
TOM : ORY 2,608 30%
TOM : LYS 1,395 27%
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with much of what 7006 fan is saying - this is very much a cut throat business. However the DSA loading figures POL1W quotes are incorrect, as Bundybear has pointed out. The DSA charters even in the winter are doing exceptionally well, and last summer most of the scheduled routes were well filled as well. Bookings for next summer are good too. This winter there has been over capacity on some routes (most noticeably Lyon) but it's mischievous to suggest the overall loadings are as low as 20-30%.
With any new airport there is inevitably a trial and error process to find which routes and timings work best - inevitably there'll be some failures before you hit on the successful formula.
I'd love to see all these airports thrive. I don't trust MAN's motives though. They want to suppress the 'local' airports and force people from the North to have to travel to Manchester as we had to in the past for the majority of flights. It's not just a question of everything in business being fair competition - remember it's not a level playing field because of the way MAN is financed. They are financed by the Manchester taxpayer but are competing with private companies. It's a moot point whether Manchester taxpayers' money should be used to deny taxpayers East of the Pennines the opportunity have a wide range of flights available closer to home.
At the end of the day all these airports can only survive if the long term demand for air travel increases in line with current predictions. I hope (and think for what that's worth!) it will, but we have hit a bit of a blip at the moment due to current economic factors. The main loser from DSA succeeding will inevitably be MAN because for many years most people from East of the Pennines have travelled to MAN for their holiday flights. What MAN are trying to do now is redress the balance by encouraging those people to go from EMA or HUY instead of DSA. However I do wonder whether MAG really do have a long term committment to EMA and HUY or whether that interest would rapidly disappear if (God forbid) DSA was to close.
A fascinating situation is starting to develop. I look forward to some interesting debates in the future.
With any new airport there is inevitably a trial and error process to find which routes and timings work best - inevitably there'll be some failures before you hit on the successful formula.
I'd love to see all these airports thrive. I don't trust MAN's motives though. They want to suppress the 'local' airports and force people from the North to have to travel to Manchester as we had to in the past for the majority of flights. It's not just a question of everything in business being fair competition - remember it's not a level playing field because of the way MAN is financed. They are financed by the Manchester taxpayer but are competing with private companies. It's a moot point whether Manchester taxpayers' money should be used to deny taxpayers East of the Pennines the opportunity have a wide range of flights available closer to home.
At the end of the day all these airports can only survive if the long term demand for air travel increases in line with current predictions. I hope (and think for what that's worth!) it will, but we have hit a bit of a blip at the moment due to current economic factors. The main loser from DSA succeeding will inevitably be MAN because for many years most people from East of the Pennines have travelled to MAN for their holiday flights. What MAN are trying to do now is redress the balance by encouraging those people to go from EMA or HUY instead of DSA. However I do wonder whether MAG really do have a long term committment to EMA and HUY or whether that interest would rapidly disappear if (God forbid) DSA was to close.
A fascinating situation is starting to develop. I look forward to some interesting debates in the future.
Last edited by mpr27; 26th Feb 2006 at 16:16.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Coventry
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Civil Aviation Statistics are not 100% correct. Whereas I do not doubt for one moment the total number of passengers that passed through the airport for each destination, the charter statistics for LPA and TFS do not tell the whole story. These routes are sold as mixed model flights with Thomsonfly, on the 737-800. This essentially means that for TFS on Sundays 109 seats on each flight are sold as charter packages with Thomson Holidays, and yet the other 80 are sold as scheduled seats, on Tuesdays 80 seats are sold through Thomson Holidays, with 109 being sold as scheduled, and on Fridays, 60 seats are sold as scheduled and 129 via Thomson Holidays as a charter package. For DSA - LPA on Mondays and Thursdays, Thomson Holidays take 109 seats, and the remaining 80 seats are sold as scheduled.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Darlington
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slight thread creep from Humberside, but again using CAA figures, it seems figures for routes from Leeds where there are services from DSA are down in January 2006 compared to January 2005-
CDG -19%
AMS -3%
FAO -44%
ALC -22%
AGP -21%
GVA -7%
PRG -9%
Does this mean some passengers are using DSA instead of Leeds or did Jet2 just not operate as many services as they did the previuos winter?
CDG -19%
AMS -3%
FAO -44%
ALC -22%
AGP -21%
GVA -7%
PRG -9%
Does this mean some passengers are using DSA instead of Leeds or did Jet2 just not operate as many services as they did the previuos winter?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mpr27
Why are they bothering with HUY when they could use Doncaster Sheffield?
DSA has far better facilities, and is much closer to centres of population such as Sheffield and Leeds, as well as Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc.
I know HUY is only a few miles away but people from, for example, Sheffield, won't travel to HUY when they can just as easily get to MAN. DSA however is very centrally situated and has a potentially massive catchment area. It's underutilised at the moment because people perceive it as difficult to get to (which it isn't) but all that will change when the motorway link road is opened, possibly followed by a rail link from the nearby East Coast Main Line.
DSA has far better facilities, and is much closer to centres of population such as Sheffield and Leeds, as well as Doncaster, Barnsley, Rotherham etc.
I know HUY is only a few miles away but people from, for example, Sheffield, won't travel to HUY when they can just as easily get to MAN. DSA however is very centrally situated and has a potentially massive catchment area. It's underutilised at the moment because people perceive it as difficult to get to (which it isn't) but all that will change when the motorway link road is opened, possibly followed by a rail link from the nearby East Coast Main Line.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am.
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Driving to Manchester is a nightmare. Today it took me three and a half hours from Lincoln. Humberside or Doncaster, I don't really mind, anything is better than making this journey every week!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Barton Upon Humber
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not much airline news/rumours at the moment
However I have heard that there is a lot of recruitment at HUY at the moment. Initially for construction workers but could later mean new jobs in other sectors
Anyone know anything more? It may just be expansion of the business park or at Eastern
However I have heard that there is a lot of recruitment at HUY at the moment. Initially for construction workers but could later mean new jobs in other sectors
Anyone know anything more? It may just be expansion of the business park or at Eastern
Bear Behind
Wow - I'm shocked by the figures LBIA gave. I would say with certainty that 8 of the 10 scheduled routes quoted are below BELF and probably all 10, though ALC is marginal. Still, the figures ARE from January and must increase in the summer season. However, 4 of those routes would be immediately chopped from the company I work for if we were at those load factors over winter season...
p-k-b
p-k-b
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why the intense critical scrutiny of the DSA loadings? How do other airports' winter loadings compare?
Even if some DSA routes are struggling isn't this to be expected for a new airport? It'll take some trial and error to find which routes work and which don't.
I've flown 4 times from DSA, including once this winter, and with the single exception of the now discontinued TOM route to DUB the flights have all been very nearly full, and one from Malaga was completely full.
I detect some anti DSA propaganda from some parts.
Even if some DSA routes are struggling isn't this to be expected for a new airport? It'll take some trial and error to find which routes work and which don't.
I've flown 4 times from DSA, including once this winter, and with the single exception of the now discontinued TOM route to DUB the flights have all been very nearly full, and one from Malaga was completely full.
I detect some anti DSA propaganda from some parts.