HUMBERSIDE
Bear Behind
"Why the intense critical scrutiny of the DSA loadings?"
Ummm. Should I really answer that? Because if the load factors are poor then the demand is poor. That ususally means that the route isn't profitabel because you are below BELF. This focus is, surely, justified as an assessment of whether airlines are making money from DSA? If that continues, then either the airlines will have to drop the unprofitable routes (most airlines aren't, as far as I know, charities) or the airline itself will go bankrupt.
"Even if some DSA routes are struggling isn't this to be expected for a new airport?"
Don't know. Is it? You tell us. There haven't been many "new" airports in the last 15 years or so, so the market dynamics are probably little understood in the modern day.
"...one from Malaga was completely full"
Judging by the stats published by the CAA, it was the only one that was 100% full, then. One swallow does not a summer make.
It isn't anti-DSA, for goodness sake. I don't care which airports live or die. It's merely a comment on the "official" CAA statistics, which seem to show that load factors are not all they need to be at the moment. Average load factors of 30% over 1 month will mean unsustainable losses. Sorry idf you don't like it, but it's true.
Ummm. Should I really answer that? Because if the load factors are poor then the demand is poor. That ususally means that the route isn't profitabel because you are below BELF. This focus is, surely, justified as an assessment of whether airlines are making money from DSA? If that continues, then either the airlines will have to drop the unprofitable routes (most airlines aren't, as far as I know, charities) or the airline itself will go bankrupt.
"Even if some DSA routes are struggling isn't this to be expected for a new airport?"
Don't know. Is it? You tell us. There haven't been many "new" airports in the last 15 years or so, so the market dynamics are probably little understood in the modern day.
"...one from Malaga was completely full"
Judging by the stats published by the CAA, it was the only one that was 100% full, then. One swallow does not a summer make.
It isn't anti-DSA, for goodness sake. I don't care which airports live or die. It's merely a comment on the "official" CAA statistics, which seem to show that load factors are not all they need to be at the moment. Average load factors of 30% over 1 month will mean unsustainable losses. Sorry idf you don't like it, but it's true.
Bear Behind
Why, is there something to say? At least this way the thread stays on page 1 instead of, a couple of weeks ago, page 5 or 6.
Please take a happy pill - you entered the debate yourself, after all!
Have a jolly nice day.
p-k-b
Please take a happy pill - you entered the debate yourself, after all!
Have a jolly nice day.
p-k-b
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Interested in AirH's mention of construction workers. HUY do not employ 'construction workers' coz they don't build anything unless it is copper-bottomed. The big job at the moment is car park expansion so lots of digger work and black-top but not a lot else. The last Airport build was the Police heliport, everything else is tenant motivated. Gather the Police heliport nearly fell flat, as the Airport wanted too much rent etc but that seems to be the story of HUY; people end up getting lumbered with high rents that they cannot escape from and then the Airport pumps up charges on a like or lump basis. What is it now? +7% on GA landing fees (errr what happened to inflation, the argument used by the bigwigs when the wage review was being dished out!), they say it is because the fees were, histoically, set to low (oh and whose fault was that, not GA that is for certain), so now it is like or lump and gather some are voting with their feet.
But at least there is Excel Airways and Ryanair; who will lose the route first DSA or HUY, surely 2x DUB cannot be supported within 45mins of eachother, will be interesting to watch!
Gather the Commercial Manager has gone and the Op's Manager is on the way, anyone any info?
But at least there is Excel Airways and Ryanair; who will lose the route first DSA or HUY, surely 2x DUB cannot be supported within 45mins of eachother, will be interesting to watch!
Gather the Commercial Manager has gone and the Op's Manager is on the way, anyone any info?
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I agree a Humberside thread isn't the place to discuss the merits of DSA, but it is an appropriate place to consider the relative performance of our local airports. After all that can indicate whether the market is approaching saturation, which will affect all of us. I'd be very interested to see a comparison of passenger loadings at DSA compared to HUY, EMA, LBA and MAN - I have seen average numbers per flight which show DSA and MAN doing well, the others less so, but I appreciate this isn't the whole story.
who will lose the route first DSA or HUY, surely 2x DUB cannot be supported within 45mins of eachother,
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Non-Operational matters for BOH HUY and EMA are being centralised at EMA, so there are inevitable job losses. Commercial Mgr probably saw it coming so got out quick.
HUY has never had an Ops Mgr, General Mgr being replaced by a new man with a different title. New post, Airfield (Airside) Ops Mgr, to be appointed.
Much ado about nothing much.
HUY has never had an Ops Mgr, General Mgr being replaced by a new man with a different title. New post, Airfield (Airside) Ops Mgr, to be appointed.
Much ado about nothing much.
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Put it this way, HUY has had loads of chances and missed out because they take the short view, worrying about whether they will be there next year so they won't plan long. Heard they have a brilliant master plan in the offing, about the same pax figures as they predicted a few years ago, 1.2m in about 10 years, ambitious or what? HUY needs to get dynamic...or die it is as simple as that. I couldn't run a business based upon what 5% growth per annum (in straight line terms, obviously 50% over ten years is a lot less growth pa, in fact it most probably equates to the growth of the average family travelling, so they are not growing the market just relying on the 2.4 becoming 3.4!
250,000 pax outbound one new kid per family makes about 50,000pa add in the teen mums etc and it is plausible!
I will start thinking HUY has cracked it when they get 2 or 3 non-charter routes in addition to KLM and it will not happen, out of hours operating charges and top dollar landing charges are a dis-incentive to growth, but that is a MAN thing!
250,000 pax outbound one new kid per family makes about 50,000pa add in the teen mums etc and it is plausible!
I will start thinking HUY has cracked it when they get 2 or 3 non-charter routes in addition to KLM and it will not happen, out of hours operating charges and top dollar landing charges are a dis-incentive to growth, but that is a MAN thing!
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Bob Marley,
Try landing outside their published hours and you will wail, even if a big jet is flying in the out of hours thing still applies -even though the airport is open nearly 24/7 this Summer on occasion, according to the timetable. Sorry when I wrote top dollar I meant non-negotiable, unless you are an operator with huge clout!
Speak to the GA guys, they will tell you, not just the one-off puddle-jumper but the Commercial GA, it can be like missing the last train. If the weather holes you up somewhere you cannot fly into HUY without paying a fortune once past that magic number, so it is either pay up or stay over for the night!
With an ex Walmart person consolidating everything in Nottingham Asda, would have thought the stack it high sell it low philosophy would apply, or is that just staff!
Try landing outside their published hours and you will wail, even if a big jet is flying in the out of hours thing still applies -even though the airport is open nearly 24/7 this Summer on occasion, according to the timetable. Sorry when I wrote top dollar I meant non-negotiable, unless you are an operator with huge clout!
Speak to the GA guys, they will tell you, not just the one-off puddle-jumper but the Commercial GA, it can be like missing the last train. If the weather holes you up somewhere you cannot fly into HUY without paying a fortune once past that magic number, so it is either pay up or stay over for the night!
With an ex Walmart person consolidating everything in Nottingham Asda, would have thought the stack it high sell it low philosophy would apply, or is that just staff!
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Just a little update;
Tui/Thomson is in discussions with the airport, and expansion from them is likely.
Excel sales are not as good as they could be, I'm not sure if that is the XL seat only part of the operation or the individual tour ops seat blocks on the XL flights. The impression is that it is the seat only that is mediocre at the moment. A fully based a/c is very much on the cards for S07.
Jet2 are not saying much at all about HUY ops, however, the airport team still see some potential.
Air Southwest have been contacted by the airport, and a meeting between HUY and WOW is scheduled for May.
Ryanair have said everything is going OK, but have not released forward bookings to the airport. The airport team will obviously be monitoring the loads when the service starts in a few weeks' time. Ryanair expansion at HUY is VERY unlikely following their recent DSA announcement.
Regards
Mike
Tui/Thomson is in discussions with the airport, and expansion from them is likely.
Excel sales are not as good as they could be, I'm not sure if that is the XL seat only part of the operation or the individual tour ops seat blocks on the XL flights. The impression is that it is the seat only that is mediocre at the moment. A fully based a/c is very much on the cards for S07.
Jet2 are not saying much at all about HUY ops, however, the airport team still see some potential.
Air Southwest have been contacted by the airport, and a meeting between HUY and WOW is scheduled for May.
Ryanair have said everything is going OK, but have not released forward bookings to the airport. The airport team will obviously be monitoring the loads when the service starts in a few weeks' time. Ryanair expansion at HUY is VERY unlikely following their recent DSA announcement.
Regards
Mike
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Air Southwest have been contacted by the airport, and a meeting between HUY and WOW is scheduled for May.
Do you have an idea on what the meeting will be about?
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Now everything is centralised at NEMA, how will HUY fare. BIt of a neg-sell for HUY. Come and taslk to us about basing flights at HUY from our offices in Castle Donington! And HUY prides itself on being local to the local community, are the people at the top so deaf that they cannot see!
Saves them money coz they can't organise the proverbial in the brewery but what the heck!
Saves them money coz they can't organise the proverbial in the brewery but what the heck!
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Originally Posted by aeulad
Tui/Thomson is in discussions with the airport, and expansion from them is likely.
Originally Posted by aeulad
Excel sales are not as good as they could be, I'm not sure if that is the XL seat only part of the operation or the individual tour ops seat blocks on the XL flights. The impression is that it is the seat only that is mediocre at the moment. A fully based a/c is very much on the cards for S07.
Originally Posted by aeulad
Air Southwest have been contacted by the airport, and a meeting between HUY and WOW is scheduled for May.
Originally Posted by aeulad
Ryanair have said everything is going OK, but have not released forward bookings to the airport. The airport team will obviously be monitoring the loads when the service starts in a few weeks' time. Ryanair expansion at HUY is VERY unlikely following their recent DSA announcement.
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I have to say 7006_fan that I disagree with your comments. In the past, HUY may not have been as active on the scene as most of us would have liked, but it IS talking to prospective airlines, and you might be surprised to hear that in fact, what is stopping the LCCs coming in is more to do with the demographics of the catchment area than the fact that HUY are completely ignorant to what is going on, THAT my friend, is from the big cheese's mouth!
The airport has, in fact been advertising considerably in the local press and online, not to mention a copy of their magazine with every issue of certain local newspapers at different times of the year. The LCC market is now somewhat saturated, with an excellent selection of destinations from nearby LBA and DSA, HUY will indeed find it a struggle, but we are starting down the right path with the DUB flights, which are selling in line with expectations. HUY WILL get a committed LCC, but unfortunately, there seems to be few suitable operators. With BE, the Q400 is too big for the likes of EDI, GLA, SOU and maybe even ABZ. The EM9, however, is a great size for the sun routes. With LS, the 733 is suited to sun routes, and the likes of AMS and CDG, however, domestic operations would be very limited. The ideal solution would be more along the lines of LS doing the sun routes, AMS and CDG and a smaller operator such as Air Southwest doing the likes of Bristol, Edinburgh and Belfast for example.
Tui expansion has not been finalised yet, but is not likely to involve anything LIKE basing an a/c at HUY. Maybe a few extra weekly flights for Summer 2007, at a guess, I would say maybe Bourgas, Corfu and Dalaman.
The Air Southwest service in prospect is Bristol, and we may see something come online for the winter 06/07 season, IF a suitable deal can be agreed.
It IS indeed frustrating, but the airport has'nt done too badly for 2006, the fish flights are almost daily, we have FR coming in and 4 new holiday routes, compared to previous years, that's quite good going. The story is not finished, not by a long shot!
Regards
Mike
The airport has, in fact been advertising considerably in the local press and online, not to mention a copy of their magazine with every issue of certain local newspapers at different times of the year. The LCC market is now somewhat saturated, with an excellent selection of destinations from nearby LBA and DSA, HUY will indeed find it a struggle, but we are starting down the right path with the DUB flights, which are selling in line with expectations. HUY WILL get a committed LCC, but unfortunately, there seems to be few suitable operators. With BE, the Q400 is too big for the likes of EDI, GLA, SOU and maybe even ABZ. The EM9, however, is a great size for the sun routes. With LS, the 733 is suited to sun routes, and the likes of AMS and CDG, however, domestic operations would be very limited. The ideal solution would be more along the lines of LS doing the sun routes, AMS and CDG and a smaller operator such as Air Southwest doing the likes of Bristol, Edinburgh and Belfast for example.
Tui expansion has not been finalised yet, but is not likely to involve anything LIKE basing an a/c at HUY. Maybe a few extra weekly flights for Summer 2007, at a guess, I would say maybe Bourgas, Corfu and Dalaman.
The Air Southwest service in prospect is Bristol, and we may see something come online for the winter 06/07 season, IF a suitable deal can be agreed.
It IS indeed frustrating, but the airport has'nt done too badly for 2006, the fish flights are almost daily, we have FR coming in and 4 new holiday routes, compared to previous years, that's quite good going. The story is not finished, not by a long shot!
Regards
Mike
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Mike.
As you know from previous posts I am a HUY supporter, but there are things going on at the moment that are disturbing. Consolidation of operation (Marketing and Accounts, Commercial Manager going etc) Lack of in your face from HUY, does not inspire confidence. Just wait until summer to see if it all works. I worry!
Cheers
7006
As you know from previous posts I am a HUY supporter, but there are things going on at the moment that are disturbing. Consolidation of operation (Marketing and Accounts, Commercial Manager going etc) Lack of in your face from HUY, does not inspire confidence. Just wait until summer to see if it all works. I worry!
Cheers
7006
what is stopping the LCCs coming in is more to do with the demographics of the catchment area than the fact that HUY are completely ignorant to what is going on,
Another thing could be that any lo-co operator wishing to start HUY would be very restricted for potential growth, the sunspots of spain and islands etc and a few cities would be the most the catchment could sustain, is that an attractive proposition for a lo-co?
These talks with WOW could be interesting, do they operate from any london airport? This could fill the gap in the low fare domestic market if talks conclude favourably.
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These talks with WOW could be interesting, do they operate from any london airport? This could fill the gap in the low fare domestic market if talks conclude favourably.
