DHL rejects Belgian demand for less noisy planes (Merged)
Moon Walker
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and you didn't care at the time
I dont wish it on anybody to loose there job , as is proven again too many people care only about them self
Neil
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tgdxb,
You're right on one point, there's much more departures now at BRU than, say, twenty years ago. But people living near a highway or a railroad will say the same thing mate.
Look, we're living in an industrialised world, with all its advantages and disadvantages. If you don't like, move to Africa and don't forget to take pesticide, the noise of the crickets aroud the house beats an MD11 overflying at 1000ft...
Give you another point to consider though.
EAT doesn't have a fancy flying school that turns kids into pilots. I know a great deal of guys who paid many tens of thousands of euro's to get a pilot's license. A lot of'em took heavy loans. A lot of them were flight engineers who made a hell of an effort (in more ways than one) to get the license - for no payrise but anticipating the disappearing need for flight engineers. EAT is one of the rare companies that give these guys a chance.
Now you go and tell these people that they did it all for nothing. Move? Don't speake of things you know nothing about. Many of these people aren't in their twenties you know. Settled, teenage kids.... and a logbook with a few hundreds of hours. Wouldn't be surprised by a guy blowing the fuse. Thank you Belgium
You're right on one point, there's much more departures now at BRU than, say, twenty years ago. But people living near a highway or a railroad will say the same thing mate.
Look, we're living in an industrialised world, with all its advantages and disadvantages. If you don't like, move to Africa and don't forget to take pesticide, the noise of the crickets aroud the house beats an MD11 overflying at 1000ft...
Give you another point to consider though.
EAT doesn't have a fancy flying school that turns kids into pilots. I know a great deal of guys who paid many tens of thousands of euro's to get a pilot's license. A lot of'em took heavy loans. A lot of them were flight engineers who made a hell of an effort (in more ways than one) to get the license - for no payrise but anticipating the disappearing need for flight engineers. EAT is one of the rare companies that give these guys a chance.
Now you go and tell these people that they did it all for nothing. Move? Don't speake of things you know nothing about. Many of these people aren't in their twenties you know. Settled, teenage kids.... and a logbook with a few hundreds of hours. Wouldn't be surprised by a guy blowing the fuse. Thank you Belgium
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Just saw this on the Belgian new:
Neighbor sews local school for nuisance:
He can't stand the sound of the bell, which sounds the end of schoolday at 4 PM !!
hey tgdxb, must be a friend of yours right
this country is going to hell !!!
btw: the school says the bell is Chapter III compliant
Neighbor sews local school for nuisance:
He can't stand the sound of the bell, which sounds the end of schoolday at 4 PM !!
hey tgdxb, must be a friend of yours right
this country is going to hell !!!
btw: the school says the bell is Chapter III compliant
Join Date: Sep 2004
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red on...,
you are getting ridiculous. If Belgians are ridiculous - according to your statement - then I guess Britons, French & Germans - to name a few - must be, as well, for they are fighting similar battles. It is not because we are a small country that we should be the (your?) preferred target for bully.
But I won't convince you, will I?
red on...,
and maybe you could identify yourself more clearly than in you rprofile?
you are getting ridiculous. If Belgians are ridiculous - according to your statement - then I guess Britons, French & Germans - to name a few - must be, as well, for they are fighting similar battles. It is not because we are a small country that we should be the (your?) preferred target for bully.
But I won't convince you, will I?
red on...,
and maybe you could identify yourself more clearly than in you rprofile?
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Kwikfly,
go on and turn your face to Dubai... EK are buying loads of new a/c and hiring quite a number of pilots, including Belgians! As a pilot, traveling should not be a problem for you, should it? I never minded traveling & being an expat. I quite enjoyed it, actually. And so did my family. Belgium is not the end of the world and wolrdl is geting smaller.
go on and turn your face to Dubai... EK are buying loads of new a/c and hiring quite a number of pilots, including Belgians! As a pilot, traveling should not be a problem for you, should it? I never minded traveling & being an expat. I quite enjoyed it, actually. And so did my family. Belgium is not the end of the world and wolrdl is geting smaller.
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Belgium may not be the end of the world, but it is a grim reminder of what happend when too many self serving politicians, and special intrest groups are in control.....what will you bitch about next when the planes are gone?
tgdxb, that last post shows you absolutely do not have a clue what you are talking about. You talk the opinion of the general public here, not reality. I did look at Dubai and other countries, they never even took the time to respond. I was not experienced enough I presume. EAT, well they did, and they responded. Gave some hope for the future. Unfortunately, that future might be history today.
I would travel the world immediatly... if you have the money for it, you can send me a PM and I'll return you my account number. The more, the better of course. If it hadn't been for my parents, I wouldn't have had any holiday the last three years, since I need the money to keep everything current. The only time I saw a jet from the inside the last three years, was when I was guiding students around a maintenance hangar... for free that is.
Oh yes, the grass is always greener on the other side of the world. In your dreams tgdxb.
I would travel the world immediatly... if you have the money for it, you can send me a PM and I'll return you my account number. The more, the better of course. If it hadn't been for my parents, I wouldn't have had any holiday the last three years, since I need the money to keep everything current. The only time I saw a jet from the inside the last three years, was when I was guiding students around a maintenance hangar... for free that is.
Oh yes, the grass is always greener on the other side of the world. In your dreams tgdxb.
Last edited by BraceBrace; 26th Oct 2004 at 11:03.
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brace...,
it is amazing how many clever people ther aree on earth who know everything better than I do and I am the only dumb, stupid one.
EK are introducing a new a/c every third week for the next 3 years and you are telling me they are not hiring? May I suggest you do a search using emirates as the keyword and you will see how many guys have been selected. Why not you then?
it is amazing how many clever people ther aree on earth who know everything better than I do and I am the only dumb, stupid one.
EK are introducing a new a/c every third week for the next 3 years and you are telling me they are not hiring? May I suggest you do a search using emirates as the keyword and you will see how many guys have been selected. Why not you then?
I never said you were dumb, I said you were talking about things you apparantly don't know much about. There is a saying in our country you know: "schoenmaker, blijf bij je leest" (it's Dutch, I don't know your mother tongue off course). It can very well be that you are an excellent intelligent workman for the job that you have. What do I know?
I also didn't say they are not hiring. They are hiring, yes, I am aware of that. And then it's easy to say: hey look at EK! Apply you idiot! But again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Do you know the difference between frozen ATPL and ATPL? What is a CPL/ME/IR? Do you know what an integrated ATP course is? Do you know what aircraft EK they fly? Do you know what experience they require?
The sentence "why not you" you added at the end, well, do a search on the subjects mentioned above and compose an answer. I hate waisting time defending myself to people who simply don't know what they are talking about.
I also didn't say they are not hiring. They are hiring, yes, I am aware of that. And then it's easy to say: hey look at EK! Apply you idiot! But again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Do you know the difference between frozen ATPL and ATPL? What is a CPL/ME/IR? Do you know what an integrated ATP course is? Do you know what aircraft EK they fly? Do you know what experience they require?
The sentence "why not you" you added at the end, well, do a search on the subjects mentioned above and compose an answer. I hate waisting time defending myself to people who simply don't know what they are talking about.
Last edited by BraceBrace; 26th Oct 2004 at 13:54.
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tgdxb,
am i ridiculous.... or the guys complaining about bells, trains, aircraft, kindergarten, people mowing their grass, anything really
Of course this isn't a Belgian thing, more of a Western European thing
In Belgium it is problematic because we don't have enough space to build railroads or airport where there is little population.
Even if we could: airports attract industy => thus jobs => thus people who want to live close to their job => thus some complaints from the intolerant ones
This is a lose lose situation, unless there is a mentality change!!
We can't have all the perks in live !!
BTW i lived in Machelen for 28 years (born and raised) next to the highway (VIADUCT), thus also under SID's from RWY25R,
the most used RWY from BRU (now and in the past)
I can honestly say- and everyone i know in this town with me- that I never woke up from aircraft noise and certainly didn't mind seeing an aircraft pass by.... I actually loved watching them fly.
I'm living in Vilvoorde now, pretty close to the railroad, it makes more noise than were hwy or planes, but again nothing i couldn't get used to in 3 weeks...
Different mentality than yours i guess ???
Just one last question:
If you can't stand airplanes, what are you doing on an aviation forum
Or do you just like the airplanes flying over somebody elses head
am i ridiculous.... or the guys complaining about bells, trains, aircraft, kindergarten, people mowing their grass, anything really
Of course this isn't a Belgian thing, more of a Western European thing
In Belgium it is problematic because we don't have enough space to build railroads or airport where there is little population.
Even if we could: airports attract industy => thus jobs => thus people who want to live close to their job => thus some complaints from the intolerant ones
This is a lose lose situation, unless there is a mentality change!!
We can't have all the perks in live !!
BTW i lived in Machelen for 28 years (born and raised) next to the highway (VIADUCT), thus also under SID's from RWY25R,
the most used RWY from BRU (now and in the past)
I can honestly say- and everyone i know in this town with me- that I never woke up from aircraft noise and certainly didn't mind seeing an aircraft pass by.... I actually loved watching them fly.
I'm living in Vilvoorde now, pretty close to the railroad, it makes more noise than were hwy or planes, but again nothing i couldn't get used to in 3 weeks...
Different mentality than yours i guess ???
Just one last question:
If you can't stand airplanes, what are you doing on an aviation forum
Or do you just like the airplanes flying over somebody elses head
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Emirates received in 2002 something like 5000 applications...forgot the correct number. Yes, they're hiring at top speed; but the requirements are still 4000hrs for F/O. This is the point I wanted to make: a lot of pilots who started their career a bit later in life -and at great expense- simply don't qualify, simply don't stand a chance.
Besides. It may be nice to expatriate when you're young (and yes I've done it too, I know what I'm talking about) but when you're 45 it's a different ballgame. Go ahead and tell your wife to give up her career. Her friends, parents. Tell your 17year old you're moving, that he'll have to say goodbye to his friends and girlfriends, and that he'll have to go to school in english now. Tell your 80 year old parents they will see you only once or twice per year from now on. Forget about the house you worked so long for, forget about the pension you paid taxes for for 20 years. But look at the bright side: you don't do it for nothing: some of your fellow belgians can now sleep in peace.
Besides. It may be nice to expatriate when you're young (and yes I've done it too, I know what I'm talking about) but when you're 45 it's a different ballgame. Go ahead and tell your wife to give up her career. Her friends, parents. Tell your 17year old you're moving, that he'll have to say goodbye to his friends and girlfriends, and that he'll have to go to school in english now. Tell your 80 year old parents they will see you only once or twice per year from now on. Forget about the house you worked so long for, forget about the pension you paid taxes for for 20 years. But look at the bright side: you don't do it for nothing: some of your fellow belgians can now sleep in peace.
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brace...,
of course I do not know everything (actually, I wanted to be a pilot) and I am always keen to learn more. Your situation sounds similar to a young - ex SN-pilot - who I know indirectly. he got hired a few months ago by EK. I also heard that they are currently focusing more on less qualified pilot hirings because they have too many currently qualified for upgrade to captain. All this is said based on my knowledge - which is imperfect - and my ignorance of your particular situation. I hope this helps you somewhat. The Belgian flying community has been expanding over the last months. Good luck!
Kwikfly,
your input corresponds almost 100% to the situation I was in when I moved last. And yes, it is hard at the beginning but the same daughter who didn't want to leave is now dreaming of being herself an expat. And the same 'old' parents are now missing their (tourist) visits there. You are right, it is a bit difficult at the beginning but life is sometimes surprising. I reckon it may not apply to your family, though, and I do respect this. Anyway I hope future can be bright(er) for you.
of course I do not know everything (actually, I wanted to be a pilot) and I am always keen to learn more. Your situation sounds similar to a young - ex SN-pilot - who I know indirectly. he got hired a few months ago by EK. I also heard that they are currently focusing more on less qualified pilot hirings because they have too many currently qualified for upgrade to captain. All this is said based on my knowledge - which is imperfect - and my ignorance of your particular situation. I hope this helps you somewhat. The Belgian flying community has been expanding over the last months. Good luck!
Kwikfly,
your input corresponds almost 100% to the situation I was in when I moved last. And yes, it is hard at the beginning but the same daughter who didn't want to leave is now dreaming of being herself an expat. And the same 'old' parents are now missing their (tourist) visits there. You are right, it is a bit difficult at the beginning but life is sometimes surprising. I reckon it may not apply to your family, though, and I do respect this. Anyway I hope future can be bright(er) for you.
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red on yello,
I will restate my disagreement - I love aviation a lot but hate being awaken at night by taking off a/c. I can't be held responsible for my genes and I am neither as lucky nor as deaf as you not to be disturbed, especially in an otherwise pretty quiet environment (despite highway proximity).
I think it is crazy to use 2O for T.O. while 25R is long enough so that planes are much higher when reaching more densely populated areas (I did observe this earlier this week while observing T.O. at the airport). Or loads of money having been spent on extending 25L, expropriating people, etc.
Our area was not overflown when I bought in 1986 and there were no plans to ever forecast this.
Flight dispersion is stupid!!!!!!!! And political in belgium, as you very well know!!!!!!! Rather than incomodating more people and not compensating them for it AT ALL, it would be better to concentrate noise and better support people impacted. It is not selfishness - just logic & good sense whether you - and others - believe or agree to this or not.
Enjoy the noise which you do not hear anyway...
I will restate my disagreement - I love aviation a lot but hate being awaken at night by taking off a/c. I can't be held responsible for my genes and I am neither as lucky nor as deaf as you not to be disturbed, especially in an otherwise pretty quiet environment (despite highway proximity).
I think it is crazy to use 2O for T.O. while 25R is long enough so that planes are much higher when reaching more densely populated areas (I did observe this earlier this week while observing T.O. at the airport). Or loads of money having been spent on extending 25L, expropriating people, etc.
Our area was not overflown when I bought in 1986 and there were no plans to ever forecast this.
Flight dispersion is stupid!!!!!!!! And political in belgium, as you very well know!!!!!!! Rather than incomodating more people and not compensating them for it AT ALL, it would be better to concentrate noise and better support people impacted. It is not selfishness - just logic & good sense whether you - and others - believe or agree to this or not.
Enjoy the noise which you do not hear anyway...
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There is NO case whatsoever for compensation when the airport was there first! But whatever I say is pointless,as nothing will bring you into the real world.
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So, the proverbial Belguim sujests that we should spend our money on flying schools in Europe (Belguim), set our goals in flying for our national carrier and end up in the Middle East???!!!!! Whow, now I really know that aviation in that country has gone to pot!!! Maybe he should become a politician and look for votes on the perimiters of the airfields which dot that country. Once he has done that he can turn on the trains, cars, trucks etc. Finally we could end up in 'eutopia' and everybody would have to ride a bike???
For the rest of us 'happy landings"
For the rest of us 'happy landings"
It seems our fellow member tgdxb has been register on the PPRuNe just to whine on bad DHL and belgian goverment that keep him awake at nights because of the use of the runways in BRU.
It seems his so called love for aviation was concentrated on the job application to SN, and his PPRuNe postings limited on the question of DHL in Brussels.
I don't want to say that the guys and gal who are about to loose their jobs at DHL should have chip in to build a runway that wouldn't bother tgdxb.
Anyway,
I am sorry for the people who are about to loose their jobs but maybe DHL is better off at someother european airport.
Rwy in Sight
It seems his so called love for aviation was concentrated on the job application to SN, and his PPRuNe postings limited on the question of DHL in Brussels.
I don't want to say that the guys and gal who are about to loose their jobs at DHL should have chip in to build a runway that wouldn't bother tgdxb.
Anyway,
I am sorry for the people who are about to loose their jobs but maybe DHL is better off at someother european airport.
Rwy in Sight
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Rwy,
I have been a long time visitor of PPRUNE.
Also, do not see me as the only Belgian citizen thinking this way. The airport mediator has received 10,458 petitions so far and I have ample mail from people in a similar mindset. The belgian gvt would not have behaved this way only to please me...
I have been a long time visitor of PPRUNE.
Also, do not see me as the only Belgian citizen thinking this way. The airport mediator has received 10,458 petitions so far and I have ample mail from people in a similar mindset. The belgian gvt would not have behaved this way only to please me...