First job in Africa concerns
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First job in Africa concerns
Hi all
Im just nearing the end of my CPL training in Oz and would love to go over to Africa for a year or so just for the great expirience but the only problem is that I don't know much about aviation down there apart from hearing about the bad safety record.Everyone I ask seems to have a bad conception about flying in Africa especially as a first job.Challenging flying, dodgy operators, bad storms, dodgy maintenance etc..
so I don't know what to think, it's confusing.
comments from a recent thread like-
"I'm not trying to be a *ick, but your request is very unreasonable and you dont know the landscape thats over there. You run out of fuel, have an engine failure on a single engine or get caught in a storm, and the storms there are huge, and u dont have the experience... you dead. If you land in the wrong area and locals dont like u they will start stripping ur plane of parts and leaving, and thats if ur lucky...."
-dont make it any easier then in a recent thread someone mentioned that they lost a friend down there too so it's a bit scary but there is also positive comments from reading through the thread.
So basically is it really as dangerous as it sounds?the flying aswell as the people etc?how is it for a first job?bare CPL ok?and finally would you recommend it or am I better of staying down here spotting a kangoroo from time to time if im lucky?
also which places are best/safest for first job and ofcoarse where is the best scenery etc ?
thanks alot
Im just nearing the end of my CPL training in Oz and would love to go over to Africa for a year or so just for the great expirience but the only problem is that I don't know much about aviation down there apart from hearing about the bad safety record.Everyone I ask seems to have a bad conception about flying in Africa especially as a first job.Challenging flying, dodgy operators, bad storms, dodgy maintenance etc..
so I don't know what to think, it's confusing.
comments from a recent thread like-
"I'm not trying to be a *ick, but your request is very unreasonable and you dont know the landscape thats over there. You run out of fuel, have an engine failure on a single engine or get caught in a storm, and the storms there are huge, and u dont have the experience... you dead. If you land in the wrong area and locals dont like u they will start stripping ur plane of parts and leaving, and thats if ur lucky...."
-dont make it any easier then in a recent thread someone mentioned that they lost a friend down there too so it's a bit scary but there is also positive comments from reading through the thread.
So basically is it really as dangerous as it sounds?the flying aswell as the people etc?how is it for a first job?bare CPL ok?and finally would you recommend it or am I better of staying down here spotting a kangoroo from time to time if im lucky?
also which places are best/safest for first job and ofcoarse where is the best scenery etc ?
thanks alot
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You will find Dodgy operators anywhere in the world, I've know of some in North America, Europe and even Oceania.
Flown out here for seven years, never had an Engine failure, in over 4800 hours of flying.
It's very simple fly within the limits of your knowledge and skill, don't be a cowboy, your not going to impress anyone and you will most likely damage the plane or injure someone.
It's a great experience flying out here, I love it. Some countries are worse than others. But it all depends on where you go and how you behave.
So if you got the balls to do it, give it a go, you will never regret it. People die all the time, in or out of airplanes, might as well have a descent tale to tell when your time comes.
Flown out here for seven years, never had an Engine failure, in over 4800 hours of flying.
It's very simple fly within the limits of your knowledge and skill, don't be a cowboy, your not going to impress anyone and you will most likely damage the plane or injure someone.
It's a great experience flying out here, I love it. Some countries are worse than others. But it all depends on where you go and how you behave.
So if you got the balls to do it, give it a go, you will never regret it. People die all the time, in or out of airplanes, might as well have a descent tale to tell when your time comes.
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Africa
Flying in Africa is as dangerous as you let it become. Choose any job offers on merit and learn as much as you can before your commit .. your biggest obstacle will be a work permit and local conversion. We are not all running about in loin cloths eating each other here - but Africa has pilots too and we protect our market jealously 
I suggest you start looking in Botswana where there is some openings and invest in some decent ratings before you arrive, as there is not much demand for C150 drivers as fat yanks with Samsonites require C210 or Caravan capacity .. good luck
I suggest you start looking in Botswana where there is some openings and invest in some decent ratings before you arrive, as there is not much demand for C150 drivers as fat yanks with Samsonites require C210 or Caravan capacity .. good luck
Hey soapbox
Sounds like something I told you 4400hrs ago 
Don't be scared to take the plunge.. You won't get a job sitting back in Oz. You have to be out there and Be prepared to hang around in dodgy hostels for a couple of months while CAA rape you for every penny you have so you can pass your conversion exams. You'll probably get paid
all and working your nuts off initially living on foodscraps.
Apart from the flying, the dangers include mini busses, walking in the street, malaria, all sort of stomach diseases, AIDS (Double up), drinking yourself silly and crazy dares when your pissed.. Oh did i Mention the animals, volcano's, political coup's, people crossing the runways while your trying to land, the controllers, the wx.... The list goes on.
What danger...
7 yrs of flying in Africa, I've got no regrets.
It's very simple fly within the limits of your knowledge and skill, don't be a cowboy, your not going to impress anyone
Don't be scared to take the plunge.. You won't get a job sitting back in Oz. You have to be out there and Be prepared to hang around in dodgy hostels for a couple of months while CAA rape you for every penny you have so you can pass your conversion exams. You'll probably get paid
all and working your nuts off initially living on foodscraps.Apart from the flying, the dangers include mini busses, walking in the street, malaria, all sort of stomach diseases, AIDS (Double up), drinking yourself silly and crazy dares when your pissed.. Oh did i Mention the animals, volcano's, political coup's, people crossing the runways while your trying to land, the controllers, the wx.... The list goes on.
What danger...
7 yrs of flying in Africa, I've got no regrets.
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Maun
Go to Maun, Botswana. 200hrs and a good attitude gets you in - the attitude is more important than the hours. Just dont be a doos and youll be fine.
C206, C210, GA8 Airvans, Islanders and Vans.
Good people, awesome flying, delicious biltong at Batemans, and the odd spit roast (human and not so much).
Best time to go would probably be around October to March.. depends - lots of info on the prune just do a search - you wont regret it!
None of this flying into hills nonsense, or getting eaten by locals if you crash. Maybe a lion though.
Fly your ass off - I flew 800hrs there in 11 months so you get your PIC time up quickly.
Only bad thing is youre living in a desert in the middle of nowhere with annoying local customs ("AH I have no Receipt book - you must come back next week!") but the crowd there makes up for it.
C206, C210, GA8 Airvans, Islanders and Vans.
Good people, awesome flying, delicious biltong at Batemans, and the odd spit roast (human and not so much).
Best time to go would probably be around October to March.. depends - lots of info on the prune just do a search - you wont regret it!
None of this flying into hills nonsense, or getting eaten by locals if you crash. Maybe a lion though.
Fly your ass off - I flew 800hrs there in 11 months so you get your PIC time up quickly.
Only bad thing is youre living in a desert in the middle of nowhere with annoying local customs ("AH I have no Receipt book - you must come back next week!") but the crowd there makes up for it.
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Reading through the threads I get the picture that the conversion process can be quite lengthy and also depends where in africa you intend to fly.What exactly is involved in the conversion process and does it depend on where you go to botsawa,kenya etc?
What about the ladies??any decent talent around to take out sexual frustration or is it something to be wary of coz of diseases?
any chances of getting a FO gig as a first job in a twin or turboprop or to move on to one after some bush expirience?
Do employers give you any training to get used to flying in the area or is that kept to minimal and should I expect to pay for that?
Alot of questions I know and I have spent alot of time reading and searching through the forum but the info is very limited and most of it is very old.
thanks alot
What about the ladies??any decent talent around to take out sexual frustration or is it something to be wary of coz of diseases
?any chances of getting a FO gig as a first job in a twin or turboprop or to move on to one after some bush expirience?
Do employers give you any training to get used to flying in the area or is that kept to minimal and should I expect to pay for that?
Alot of questions I know and I have spent alot of time reading and searching through the forum but the info is very limited and most of it is very old.
thanks alot
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Is anyone on the forum working in Africa from
the US? I'd like some info on what it takes to
convert an FAA license to an African equivalent.
Also, what websites, if any, list the current job
openings in Africa. With the current state of the
airline industry in the US an expat job may be one
of the few remaining options for me should I lose my
job. Thanks in advance for the info.
the US? I'd like some info on what it takes to
convert an FAA license to an African equivalent.
Also, what websites, if any, list the current job
openings in Africa. With the current state of the
airline industry in the US an expat job may be one
of the few remaining options for me should I lose my
job. Thanks in advance for the info.
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I can only give you info on Botswana cos thats where I worked -
Converting licence is no hassle for ICAO licences, not sure about FAA but Jar is also not a problem (as if it ever would be).
Botswana doesnt have any training schedules or standards, so they cannot issue fresh comms, they just convert other country's licences.
The process is a piss easy law exam, medical and flight test. Couldnt be easier - and takes a week or two..
You get around 50hrs training in the delta before they let you loose by yourself with paying pax. If you cant get it sussed out in 50hrs then you shouldnt be there anyway.
Training is all about getting in and out of bush strips, in that most beautiful of beasts, the legendary 206.
Botswana is as flat as a pilots bank balance, so no worries about IMC flying into rocks - all flying is officially VMC but you will get clagged in from time to time.
Dont shag the locals. Aids is a big problem in Botswana.
There are about 3 islanders operating out of Maun, and a stack of vans - all single pilot ops - you can expect to get onto them after a year or so.
Some companies do ridiculously stupid bondage - something like P50 000 for two years, thats around $8000!
Others are more sensible...
any more questions im glad to help cos im bored out of my mind not flying a van around borneo.
Converting licence is no hassle for ICAO licences, not sure about FAA but Jar is also not a problem (as if it ever would be).
Botswana doesnt have any training schedules or standards, so they cannot issue fresh comms, they just convert other country's licences.
The process is a piss easy law exam, medical and flight test. Couldnt be easier - and takes a week or two..
You get around 50hrs training in the delta before they let you loose by yourself with paying pax. If you cant get it sussed out in 50hrs then you shouldnt be there anyway.
Training is all about getting in and out of bush strips, in that most beautiful of beasts, the legendary 206.
Botswana is as flat as a pilots bank balance, so no worries about IMC flying into rocks - all flying is officially VMC but you will get clagged in from time to time.
Dont shag the locals. Aids is a big problem in Botswana.
There are about 3 islanders operating out of Maun, and a stack of vans - all single pilot ops - you can expect to get onto them after a year or so.
Some companies do ridiculously stupid bondage - something like P50 000 for two years, thats around $8000!
Others are more sensible...
any more questions im glad to help cos im bored out of my mind not flying a van around borneo.
Está servira para distraerle.
Have to leap to the defence of the 'fat' American, so traduced by an earlier poster. This is a phenomenum of the past. Recent surveys have shown that in fact the Australians now takes the crunchy biscuit as the world's obese ones.
i love de motive
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"swazkeri" 
on the money! If you can't find a deal through climbto350 for a current or passed type, the only way to get a gig in Africa is to show up on it's doorstep and jam your foot in the door.
I can only speak for Kenya but as a foreigner holding an ICAO ATPL. It took me 14 days to get my local license in hand. It has taken some others with the same qualifications up to 60 days! I got lucky, the company was really short of pilots and they needed someone in a hurry. I got my initial line check after flying for over 300 hours!
I did airlaw, a few touch and go's at night and an IR ride to get my license. It is a little stickier for a commercial conversion.
good luck
on the money! If you can't find a deal through climbto350 for a current or passed type, the only way to get a gig in Africa is to show up on it's doorstep and jam your foot in the door.
I can only speak for Kenya but as a foreigner holding an ICAO ATPL. It took me 14 days to get my local license in hand. It has taken some others with the same qualifications up to 60 days! I got lucky, the company was really short of pilots and they needed someone in a hurry. I got my initial line check after flying for over 300 hours!
I did airlaw, a few touch and go's at night and an IR ride to get my license. It is a little stickier for a commercial conversion.
good luck
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Stop using Africa
Im just nearing the end of my CPL training in Oz and would love to go over to Africa for a year or so just for the great expirience but the only problem is that I don't know much about aviation down there apart from hearing about the bad safety record.Everyone I ask seems to have a bad conception about flying in Africa especially as a first job.Challenging flying, dodgy operators, bad storms, dodgy maintenance etc..
so I don't know what to think, it's confusing.
My REP
I would ask you to stay there and build up your hours, gain a bit of experience and then go to AFRICA, STOP USING AFRICA AS A STEPPING STONE AND THEN CRITISIZE ITS SAFETY. If all or 60% CPL graduates or new pilots fly in AFRICA first before going off to the west, where does it leaves the safety of African skies.
That will do nothing but just compromise the safety in the AFRICAN Skies.
Ta
so I don't know what to think, it's confusing.
My REP
I would ask you to stay there and build up your hours, gain a bit of experience and then go to AFRICA, STOP USING AFRICA AS A STEPPING STONE AND THEN CRITISIZE ITS SAFETY. If all or 60% CPL graduates or new pilots fly in AFRICA first before going off to the west, where does it leaves the safety of African skies.
That will do nothing but just compromise the safety in the AFRICAN Skies.
Ta
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Quote: “I'd like some info on what it takes to convert an FAA license to an African equivalent.” Which African equivalent?
Quote: “Just wanting to know how the Aus ATPL goes transfering to an equivilant African standard and what sort of regional flying those sort of qualifications will get you...” Which equivalent African standard?
There are over 40 separate countries in the continent Africa. Naturally they each have their own Civil Aviation Agency (or similar title) and each has its own peculiar requirements. The same applies to their work permit policies. Suitcaseman gave you a clue in his post above when he referred to some of those countries. If after reading that you still do not comprehend that Africa is not one country then you should give it a miss. You will not fit in!
If you are serious about flying in some part of Africa then you need to do some homework. Narrow down your choice of countries and then find out about their requirements and employment opportunities.
Quote: “Just wanting to know how the Aus ATPL goes transfering to an equivilant African standard and what sort of regional flying those sort of qualifications will get you...” Which equivalent African standard?
There are over 40 separate countries in the continent Africa. Naturally they each have their own Civil Aviation Agency (or similar title) and each has its own peculiar requirements. The same applies to their work permit policies. Suitcaseman gave you a clue in his post above when he referred to some of those countries. If after reading that you still do not comprehend that Africa is not one country then you should give it a miss. You will not fit in!
If you are serious about flying in some part of Africa then you need to do some homework. Narrow down your choice of countries and then find out about their requirements and employment opportunities.
Last edited by Carrier; 7th Jul 2008 at 02:41. Reason: extra information
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Please do everyone a favour and stay in Aus, the last thing Africa needs is another Aussie skygod. Either way you're at the bottom of the ladder and you need experience, my suggestion is that you change careers Now!
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Rawrawhammer.....stay in OZ, you ask to many questions and seem to have too many reservations. Africa is a place for adventure seeking, go get it pilots. If you were one of them you'd be here already...
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dnk,
Next door to your old stomping grounds in Borneo. Bored outta my mind as well, early retirement (long story.)
Do you know a lot about flying in Indonesia? Old bush hand before, in the land of NQR right now, but would like to do some stuff in those islands with good mates just for fun.
I work for grog and attaboys.
Anybody else got info, pm me.
Cheers,
pac
Next door to your old stomping grounds in Borneo. Bored outta my mind as well, early retirement (long story.)
Do you know a lot about flying in Indonesia? Old bush hand before, in the land of NQR right now, but would like to do some stuff in those islands with good mates just for fun.
I work for grog and attaboys.
Anybody else got info, pm me.
Cheers,
pac
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Namviator, so are you saying that there are no fresh CPL graduates in Europe or North America? no, there are. Does that make american and european sky more dangerous? no. The problem in Africa is not the pilots (well there must be some terrible pilots) but more the local qualifications (ATC, maintenance, administration). I think Africa is actually the BEST PLACE for a fresh new pilot. You will know a lot more and quicker.
Kingpost, what is the point of your post exactly? why would he have to change careers?
Broderii, please don't make people believe that going to Africa is a still a big adventure. I've lived there for 20 years, there is no adventure. That's the problem with some expats, they come to Africa and think they are the new Indiana Jones. There is no adventure. It's just a different place, way of functionning, depending on which country you are. I've know plenty of pilots in Africa and none of them were adventurers. It is very normal that he has plenty of questions and hesitations.
RAMHAMMER, check your PMs.
Kingpost, what is the point of your post exactly? why would he have to change careers?
Broderii, please don't make people believe that going to Africa is a still a big adventure. I've lived there for 20 years, there is no adventure. That's the problem with some expats, they come to Africa and think they are the new Indiana Jones. There is no adventure. It's just a different place, way of functionning, depending on which country you are. I've know plenty of pilots in Africa and none of them were adventurers. It is very normal that he has plenty of questions and hesitations.
RAMHAMMER, check your PMs.
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Jumbo744
What I'm saying is that he should stay put if he's worried about Africa, it's nt a place for boys with their parents in Aus. If staying put in Aus cannot reap the benefits he needs, namely experience, then change careers because in aviation if you want to succeed you need to make sacrifices and be flexible to get the career going, in fact you need to be flexible throughout.
Take a look at the pilots in Maun, not one of them would have asked a question like he did on a public forum. This is a case of a "daddy" sponsored child, you won't find a self sponsored pilot asking ridiculous questions like he did.
What I'm saying is that he should stay put if he's worried about Africa, it's nt a place for boys with their parents in Aus. If staying put in Aus cannot reap the benefits he needs, namely experience, then change careers because in aviation if you want to succeed you need to make sacrifices and be flexible to get the career going, in fact you need to be flexible throughout.
Take a look at the pilots in Maun, not one of them would have asked a question like he did on a public forum. This is a case of a "daddy" sponsored child, you won't find a self sponsored pilot asking ridiculous questions like he did.