End of days for CPL's flying left seat over 5700 kgs
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End of days for CPL's flying left seat over 5700 kgs
The new Part 61 has a nasty surprise waiting for all those flying aircraft over 5700 kgs with a CPL. This will no longer be allowed and all pilots flying as PIC on these aircraft must have an ATPL.
The next surprise is that flight tests for an ATPL can only be done on a turboprop or jet or level D simulator - no more Baron or Seneca ATP tests!!
There are a lot of other surprises in store, some good and some bad, but all in all the new regulations are really good for SA aviation.
The next surprise is that flight tests for an ATPL can only be done on a turboprop or jet or level D simulator - no more Baron or Seneca ATP tests!!
There are a lot of other surprises in store, some good and some bad, but all in all the new regulations are really good for SA aviation.
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Does the 'loop Hole' not still exist???As far as I know the only way Cpl pilots are flying from the left seat on aircraft above 5700kg's is if the aircraft is certified for single pilot operation. Part 61 does not change this, or does it???
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Single Crew B190 Operations
I can only speak for B190 operations, but I know a lot of guys are using the alleged "loophole". In fact, it is not a loophole at all. The POH specifies it is a single crew aircraft, but it has certain conditions. If you look at the limitation section they say:
1.) An operative three axis auto-pilot system must be installed.
2.) No more than 9 pax are allowed.
3.) Even when flying with only 9 pax, the other seats have to be disabled with the approved kit.
Operatos just look at the first line of the POH and think, "GREAT"! Nobody ever bothers with the rest...
1.) An operative three axis auto-pilot system must be installed.
2.) No more than 9 pax are allowed.
3.) Even when flying with only 9 pax, the other seats have to be disabled with the approved kit.
Operatos just look at the first line of the POH and think, "GREAT"! Nobody ever bothers with the rest...
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Although Part 61 will be implemented in January, there will be a phase in period, and those pilots who are already training using the current system will be able to continue, including writing the current exams.
The same will go for pilots operating over 5700 kgs without an ATPL. They will be given a certain time period in which to complete their ATP whereafter they will lose the right to operate left seat if they have not obtained the ATPL.
The same will go for pilots operating over 5700 kgs without an ATPL. They will be given a certain time period in which to complete their ATP whereafter they will lose the right to operate left seat if they have not obtained the ATPL.
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What about the contract DHC-6 or B200 drivers that load their 12,500lbs machines to the medium category? 
Does one require an atp in that instance?
Does one require an atp in that instance?
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What about the contract DHC-6 or B200 drivers that load their 12,500lbs machines to the medium category? Does one require an atp in that instance?
Does one require an atp in that instance?
ING? (wash out your mouth!) 
Surely no-one would do that ? (not even Shirley!)
Eish! Having an ATP would definitely put a stop to that. Or at the worst, would enable one to fly legally.............
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Privileges of commercial pilot licence (aeroplane)
61.05.9
(1) The holder of a valid commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall, in the type of aeroplane for which he or she is rated,
be entitled to -
(a) exercise all the privileges of a private pilot licence (aeroplane);
(b) act as pilot-in-command in any aeroplane operations other than commercial air transport operations;
(c) act as pilot-in-command in commercial air transport operations in any aeroplane certified for single-pilot
operations;
(d) act as co-pilot in commercial air transport operations in any aeroplane required to be operated with a copilot;
(e) act as a tug and safety pilot; and
(f) exercise all the privileges referred to in this sub-regulation by night.
(2) The holder of the licence shall be entitled to exercise the privileges of the licence for any of the special purposes
referred to in regulation 61.05.10(1), if the holder holds the appropriate valid rating.
Pretty straightforward. You can only fly PIC on single-pilot aircraft with a comm.
Anyone care to post the B1900 limitation referred to in Prop Job's post?
61.05.9
(1) The holder of a valid commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall, in the type of aeroplane for which he or she is rated,
be entitled to -
(a) exercise all the privileges of a private pilot licence (aeroplane);
(b) act as pilot-in-command in any aeroplane operations other than commercial air transport operations;
(c) act as pilot-in-command in commercial air transport operations in any aeroplane certified for single-pilot
operations;
(d) act as co-pilot in commercial air transport operations in any aeroplane required to be operated with a copilot;
(e) act as a tug and safety pilot; and
(f) exercise all the privileges referred to in this sub-regulation by night.
(2) The holder of the licence shall be entitled to exercise the privileges of the licence for any of the special purposes
referred to in regulation 61.05.10(1), if the holder holds the appropriate valid rating.
Pretty straightforward. You can only fly PIC on single-pilot aircraft with a comm.
Anyone care to post the B1900 limitation referred to in Prop Job's post?
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This only applies to the 1900D.
The 1900A/B/C manual says minimum flight crew: One Pilot.
The 1900A/B/C manual says minimum flight crew: One Pilot.
1900D Airliner
Section II – Limitations
P/N 129-590000-3ETC1
Page 2-11
MINIMUM FLIGHT CREW
The minimum crew is one pilot. See the Kinds of Operations Equipment List in this section for required equipment
Page 2-30
KINDS OF OPERATIONS EQUIPMENT LIST
SINGLE PILOT OPERATION ONLY
1. Headset
2. Boom Mounted Microphone
3. Emergency, Abnormal, and Normal Procedures Checklist
4. Kit 114-5042
Remarks and/or Exceptions: All passenger seats in excess of nine (9) must be rendered nonoccupiable by “DO NOT OCCUPY” seat belt tube assembly.
Section II – Limitations
P/N 129-590000-3ETC1
Page 2-11
MINIMUM FLIGHT CREW
The minimum crew is one pilot. See the Kinds of Operations Equipment List in this section for required equipment
Page 2-30
KINDS OF OPERATIONS EQUIPMENT LIST
SINGLE PILOT OPERATION ONLY
1. Headset
2. Boom Mounted Microphone
3. Emergency, Abnormal, and Normal Procedures Checklist
4. Kit 114-5042
Remarks and/or Exceptions: All passenger seats in excess of nine (9) must be rendered nonoccupiable by “DO NOT OCCUPY” seat belt tube assembly.
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Well i've got no problems with all the changes happening on the part 61 it was about time things go the right way,in most part of the world BE190 are being flown by ATP holders.However i'd like to put my reserve on the fact that to be able to do an ATP checkride it has to be done on a turboprop or level D jet simulator no more on light twin piston such as Baron,Seneca etc...what would happen for those who already meet the requirements for their checkride but are still flying light pistons or are instructors but have no turboprops or jet experience?does that mean they've got to wait till they get a job on such planes?what if they don't?
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I agree with the fact that they will not allow pilots to test on light twins. 1500 hrs of instruction time only means that on paper you have got the hrs required. In terms of operation of aircraft in the 121/135 cat. a person with 1500hrs bombing around a cicuit in a c182/PA34 has no experience to render him capable of commanding an aircraft above 5700kgs, purely because he has an ATP!!! That ATP means nothing,excepting on Paper. When I started flying contract. I flew with one to many captains who had command on the aircraft because they had an 'ATP', 90% of the experience behind them consisted of flying C150/C172's in the circuit. THIS IS DANGEROUS!!!!!!!! The new regs thankfully end this problem, Well done SA, a step in the right direction.
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Its great to see they are realising what flying experience is important. An F/O with 1000 hrs P2 in a 1900D in my opinion has more valuable experience than an instructor with 1000hrs in a PA28. Not that I have any thing against instructors, just dont believe they should be fast tracked towards command a a medium category aircraft because they have a couple more "P1" hrs, and an ATP, that was achieved in the circuit!!!!BRING ON PART 61!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
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I also don't see why a CPL should be at the controls of a 1900 simply because of a loop hole in the wording of the CARS.
(We all know that was not the intention...)
Before all the CPL's jump on my back, ask yourself this:
Do you really think the Operator went through all the Legal Drivel in order to give you CPL's a "break". (I think not)
They do it to get Cheaper Labour (i.e. screwing you) while at the same time pocketing the difference in fees paid by the Contract Originators.
Rather sit on your bhind, write the exams, get the rating while demanding to get paid what you are worth. That stimulates growth (personally) as well as for the rest of the Industry in SA.
PS. We were ALL CPL's (and even SPL's) once...
(We all know that was not the intention...)
Before all the CPL's jump on my back, ask yourself this:
Do you really think the Operator went through all the Legal Drivel in order to give you CPL's a "break". (I think not)
They do it to get Cheaper Labour (i.e. screwing you) while at the same time pocketing the difference in fees paid by the Contract Originators.
Rather sit on your bhind, write the exams, get the rating while demanding to get paid what you are worth. That stimulates growth (personally) as well as for the rest of the Industry in SA.
PS. We were ALL CPL's (and even SPL's) once...
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Experience for Airline Transport Pilot Licence (aeroplane)
According to Part 61.07.3 (1):
An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (aeroplane) must have completed, in aeroplanes, not less than 1500 hours of flight time of which -
(a) 500 hours must be on multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes that are type certified in accordance with FAA Part 25, JAA Part 25 or an equivalent certification standard.
Is there any way we can still count our B190 co-pilot time towards this, since it is FAA Part 23 certified, or can we only count it towards the 1500 hours total time?
An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (aeroplane) must have completed, in aeroplanes, not less than 1500 hours of flight time of which -
(a) 500 hours must be on multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes that are type certified in accordance with FAA Part 25, JAA Part 25 or an equivalent certification standard.
Is there any way we can still count our B190 co-pilot time towards this, since it is FAA Part 23 certified, or can we only count it towards the 1500 hours total time?
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Good question! I'm sitting right seat on a B190, does that mean when I hit 1500hrs I've still gotta go and find another 500hrs multi crew on something else.
Should of flown Lets instead!
Should of flown Lets instead!
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Flyer14, the law goes on:
According to Part 61.07.3 (1):
An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (aeroplane) must have completed, in aeroplanes, not less than 1500 hours of flight time of which -
(a) 500 hours must be on multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes that are type certified in accordance with FAA Part 25, JAA Part 25 or an equivalent certification standard, or
(b) 250 hours must be as pilot-in-command of which up to 150 hours may pilot-in-command under supervision;
(c) 200 hours must be cross-country flight time, of which 100 hours may be as co-pilot or pilot-in-command under supervision;
(d) 75 hours must be instrument time, of which not more than 30 hours may be acquired in an FSTD approved for the purpose; and
(e) 100 hours shall be night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot.
Those are the basic requirements. I was hoping I could count my B190 co-pilot time as multi-crew time, since you can skip (b) to (d) that way. If you've got the requirements stipulated in those areas, my understanding is that you won't need the 500 hours multi-crew time.
According to Part 61.07.3 (1):
An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (aeroplane) must have completed, in aeroplanes, not less than 1500 hours of flight time of which -
(a) 500 hours must be on multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes that are type certified in accordance with FAA Part 25, JAA Part 25 or an equivalent certification standard, or
(b) 250 hours must be as pilot-in-command of which up to 150 hours may pilot-in-command under supervision;
(c) 200 hours must be cross-country flight time, of which 100 hours may be as co-pilot or pilot-in-command under supervision;
(d) 75 hours must be instrument time, of which not more than 30 hours may be acquired in an FSTD approved for the purpose; and
(e) 100 hours shall be night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot.
Those are the basic requirements. I was hoping I could count my B190 co-pilot time as multi-crew time, since you can skip (b) to (d) that way. If you've got the requirements stipulated in those areas, my understanding is that you won't need the 500 hours multi-crew time.