South African Black Pilots
Join Date: Mar 2007
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In all fairness the CAA has changed 180 degrees for the better over the past 10 years. Can anyone remember the days when we had to deal with the DOT (dept. of transport)
in the middle of Pretoria. Now that my friend was a pathetic operation!
in the middle of Pretoria. Now that my friend was a pathetic operation!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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In all fairness the CAA has changed 180 degrees for the better over the past 10 years. Can anyone remember the days when we had to deal with the DOT (dept. of transport) in the middle of Pretoria. Now that my friend was a pathetic operation!
in the middle of Pretoria. Now that my friend was a pathetic operation!
1) CHEAPER
2) Promptly handled
3) Accurate first time out.
I just renewed and added a type and it was
1) LOST and I had to reapply!
2) Came back WRONG TWICE for the added type I had applied for
3) Took 4 months to happen
4) A d@mn side more expensive and much more hassles.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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I've been working for years on a validation that's done up by the 'new' rainbow CAA...
I've had documents lost, not returned, wrong type issued, wrong expiry dates, delays in processing, and also found it to be hideously expensive..fortunatly a cost borne by my company...
But the CAA, like every other governmental agency, is being used by the ANC to provide an employement service....often for less than qualified candidates..
I've had documents lost, not returned, wrong type issued, wrong expiry dates, delays in processing, and also found it to be hideously expensive..fortunatly a cost borne by my company...
But the CAA, like every other governmental agency, is being used by the ANC to provide an employement service....often for less than qualified candidates..
Hmmmm
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poorpilot,
Sorry, man! I am not interested in the racial issues, all I care about is the drop in standard and service that is occurring.
I don't give a toss HOW it's come about, but I DO give a toss that it HAS come about. If it is because there are people of lesser abilities who are non-white then it NEEDS FIXING and Government needs to be held accountable.
It is their direct stated policy that whites are not to be included and if that is leading to this then it needs addressing. Not rascist, just my opinion, and if you think that makes me a rascist, then think away, my friend. I know my opinions, and in my opinion it is wrong, FULL STOP!
Sorry, man! I am not interested in the racial issues, all I care about is the drop in standard and service that is occurring.
I don't give a toss HOW it's come about, but I DO give a toss that it HAS come about. If it is because there are people of lesser abilities who are non-white then it NEEDS FIXING and Government needs to be held accountable.
It is their direct stated policy that whites are not to be included and if that is leading to this then it needs addressing. Not rascist, just my opinion, and if you think that makes me a rascist, then think away, my friend. I know my opinions, and in my opinion it is wrong, FULL STOP!
Join Date: Jun 2005
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You guys are wrong. The new CAA is cheaper. The other day I was issued my first helicopter type rating. I never even had to pay for one flying hour on eggbeaters. Now that’s a great saving!
Join Date: Feb 2007
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He is Black. Oh my god, its amazing. Black folks can fly.......Im going to have to ask him if flying is difficult, maybe harder than MED SCHOOL.
This should be on Jet Blast......Then we could all say what kind of XXXXing idiot started this thread.
This should be on Jet Blast......Then we could all say what kind of XXXXing idiot started this thread.
B Sousa
Nobody said or posted that black people cant fly! Do not need to be ironic or sarcastic. Suggest you to read the all posts again.
I do not know about the true intentions of Balewa when started this thread, and personally do not know him but can assure you that he is not any kind of xxxxing idiot just for asking about how was aviation before 1994.
SirOsis and Saywhat thanks for the answer,
Nugpot believe that your post was a very fair assesment about aviation in SA.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Suprise Suprise
Well guys it seems to be that a 
foreigner has led us into the old race debate. Its gone from a topic about flying to AWB "broeder bond" vs ANC. Racism isnt dead in SA, far from it. As long as we give a reaction to these topics, the longer theyll be around. Dont get me wrong I have my own opinions about this, but I keep these arguments for braai time or when they are really needed or can be veiwed in a serious light.This topic has been thrashed to death on pprune for as long as I can remember.
I know it feels good to vent, but as long as there are no real names behind these posts, it becomes a bashing session and wont be taken seriously.
Standing by all the rebuttles.....
foreigner has led us into the old race debate. Its gone from a topic about flying to AWB "broeder bond" vs ANC. Racism isnt dead in SA, far from it. As long as we give a reaction to these topics, the longer theyll be around. Dont get me wrong I have my own opinions about this, but I keep these arguments for braai time or when they are really needed or can be veiwed in a serious light.This topic has been thrashed to death on pprune for as long as I can remember.I know it feels good to vent, but as long as there are no real names behind these posts, it becomes a bashing session and wont be taken seriously.
Standing by all the rebuttles.....
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numbers
guys it was rather interesting and teadious catching up on the five pages, going back to the original question; is it at all possible to get the exact figures from our respective companies on the amounts of Captains, first officers, P3's and of at all the ATC's of whites and non-whites.
I think Balelwa this would be sufficient for you.
I think Balelwa this would be sufficient for you.
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Come on guys….stop blaming AA for screwing up your career….Had it not been for AA, I doubt any person of colour would even be given a chance in this industry in SA.
One need only look at the stats of companies that have been hiring in the past year…
SAX – more than 30 new intakes, in the past year. Apart from Cadets, which the company benefits from because of subsidized training costs and reduced salaries, how many non-whites have they hired?
Interviewed several but most were never called back and I know a couple of them that have started or will be starting at Comair soon.
Link – Same story
Comair – The only reason that they have hired a handful of non – whites is because of Government pressure and this after 13 years….Hopefully, they will have their first non – white Commander in the new year.
SAA – Well, one need only look at surnames of the last 24 odd individuals that were hired this year and you will find 4/24 are non whites and yes, the rest are all very very white…..even though there are dozens of cadets at the feeders that have the necessary experience to join.
Its remarkable to note that on the last selection, a non white individual scored the highest during the selections……He is still not at SAA!!!
Mango/1time – Nil in their entire fleet.
There you have it, even though there are several non-whites that are P1 rated on Medium Turbo Props flying for the Quilla’s, NAC’s and Solenta’s……(And you can be rest assured, coming from people that have had the privilege of sharing a cockpit with them, these individuals have proven themselves as being more than capable pilots and commanders. I am also sure that people reading these forums can verify the above)….
Many of them are not even given a second glance from SA airlines and are still marginalized whilst individuals with half their experience are sitting in cushy airline jobs.
These are facts………Now I will wait for the onslaught!
One need only look at the stats of companies that have been hiring in the past year…
SAX – more than 30 new intakes, in the past year. Apart from Cadets, which the company benefits from because of subsidized training costs and reduced salaries, how many non-whites have they hired?
Interviewed several but most were never called back and I know a couple of them that have started or will be starting at Comair soon.
Link – Same story
Comair – The only reason that they have hired a handful of non – whites is because of Government pressure and this after 13 years….Hopefully, they will have their first non – white Commander in the new year.
SAA – Well, one need only look at surnames of the last 24 odd individuals that were hired this year and you will find 4/24 are non whites and yes, the rest are all very very white…..even though there are dozens of cadets at the feeders that have the necessary experience to join.
Its remarkable to note that on the last selection, a non white individual scored the highest during the selections……He is still not at SAA!!!
Mango/1time – Nil in their entire fleet.
There you have it, even though there are several non-whites that are P1 rated on Medium Turbo Props flying for the Quilla’s, NAC’s and Solenta’s……(And you can be rest assured, coming from people that have had the privilege of sharing a cockpit with them, these individuals have proven themselves as being more than capable pilots and commanders. I am also sure that people reading these forums can verify the above)….
Many of them are not even given a second glance from SA airlines and are still marginalized whilst individuals with half their experience are sitting in cushy airline jobs.
These are facts………Now I will wait for the onslaught!
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SAX – more than 30 new intakes, in the past year. Apart from Cadets, which the company benefits from because of subsidized training costs and reduced salaries, how many non-whites have they hired?
Interviewed several but most were never called back and I know a couple of them that have started or will be starting at Comair soon.
Interviewed several but most were never called back and I know a couple of them that have started or will be starting at Comair soon.
How would you know what pilots score at SAA interviews? That info is not freely available and what you heard over a beer does not constitute a fact.
BTW, SAX does not benefit from subsidised training costs. SAA pays for any extra training over what a normal pilot at SAX would require. The costs to SAX to get a cadet on line is actually a bit more than it is to get a normal FO on line, because SAX needs to put a 3rd pilot on the flight deck for the first 25 sectors that the cadets fly, in case the training captain is incapacitated.
I just love all the "facts" from the uninformed peanut gallery...........
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Exclusive Black Management? How many of these Black Managers sit on the selection board? The stats of your intakes, bare adequate testimony to the SAX selection policies........Cadets cost more,?I think not! Offset by reduced salaries!
SAA scores.....defintely not over a beer.....I am more well informed than you think!
Uninformed Peanut Gallery - You or ME!!!! No need to go down that route NUTgPOT!
No we are even!!!!
SAA scores.....defintely not over a beer.....I am more well informed than you think!
Uninformed Peanut Gallery - You or ME!!!! No need to go down that route NUTgPOT!
No we are even!!!!
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How many of these Black Managers sit on the selection board?
Cadets cost more,?I think not! Offset by reduced salaries!
Also, you cannot use the salary difference without taking all the other facts into consideration. SAX has to run the DH8 FO pool fat to have FO's available for upgrade, because the cadets leave after two years and will never upgrade ar SAX. Futhermore, because of their longer training SAX has to employ two more training captains on that pool than would be required if the cadets were not there. Add to that the fact that you have to replace the cadets every two years with even more training costs. They are certainly not cheaper.
SAA scores.....defintely not over a beer.....I am more well informed than you think!
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"Quote by Balewa"
Here in Nigeria the issue of being black and a pilot has never been an issue, as far as I know Nigerian pilots have been flying for sometime now, even during the fifties we had guys sent to the UK for flight training et al and have kept that image going till today.
yes you are quite right Balewa and I remember very well a Captain Rufus Orimoloye.
On 30 July 1968 Rufus departed from Heathrow at 21:50 for Lagos via Rome and Kano under the command of Captain C J Gray with Captain Rufus Orimoloye as Command Under Supervision. The VC10 was operating West African service WT923 and proceeded without incident, arriving in Kano at 05:07 on 31st July.
For the final Kano-Lagos sector the arrival weather forecast predicted squall lines - characteristic thunderstorms which affect the West African coast during the rainy season. Orimoloye elected to proceed to Lagos on a 'look see' basis and nominated Kano as the return alternative. After descending to within operational limits on an approach to Runway 19, visibility was poor so the flight returned to Kano.
Consideration was given to terminating the flight at Kano but it was reported that the weather conditions at Lagos had improved so a further attempt was made to land there. By the time the plane began its second approach, conditions worsened. The aircraft circled for a while, then Captain Orimoloye decided to make an approach from the coast and ran inland using VOR and DME. At a late stage, the runway was sighted and the aircraft was placed to make a landing. The airfield, however, was awash with heavy rain and the crew decided to make a further go-around.
At this point Number 3 engine started to run rough and had to be shut down. A diversion to Accra was decided upon as it had better maintenance facilities and the availability of a spare engine. During the short flight to Accra, Lagos ATC called the VC10 to report that a Comet of East African Airways had just landed at Lagos and aquaplaned off the end of the runway, coming to rest in deep mud just short of the boundary. The two Captains looked at each other with gratification.
G-ARVL landed at Accra at 12:10 where the flight was terminated. As the crew were about to leave, the Engineer called them back to the tarmac to inspect the failed engine which had been fitted with experimental carbon fibre compressor blades; the basis for the new Rolls-Royce RB211 engine. To the crew's astonishment, the compressor blades had been shredded and were hanging in tatters. It was concluded that they had been damaged by exposure to heavy tropical rain. On returning to London, Gray reported that Orimoloye had passed with flying colours and was cleared to operate in command of the VC10. He also added that if he had shares in Rolls-Royce, he would sell them at once.
Rufus was a great guy and so were all the lads from Nigeria, bunch of dedicated and highly professional Pilots.
Anyone with any info on Rufus please PM me.
Here in Nigeria the issue of being black and a pilot has never been an issue, as far as I know Nigerian pilots have been flying for sometime now, even during the fifties we had guys sent to the UK for flight training et al and have kept that image going till today.
yes you are quite right Balewa and I remember very well a Captain Rufus Orimoloye.
On 30 July 1968 Rufus departed from Heathrow at 21:50 for Lagos via Rome and Kano under the command of Captain C J Gray with Captain Rufus Orimoloye as Command Under Supervision. The VC10 was operating West African service WT923 and proceeded without incident, arriving in Kano at 05:07 on 31st July.
For the final Kano-Lagos sector the arrival weather forecast predicted squall lines - characteristic thunderstorms which affect the West African coast during the rainy season. Orimoloye elected to proceed to Lagos on a 'look see' basis and nominated Kano as the return alternative. After descending to within operational limits on an approach to Runway 19, visibility was poor so the flight returned to Kano.
Consideration was given to terminating the flight at Kano but it was reported that the weather conditions at Lagos had improved so a further attempt was made to land there. By the time the plane began its second approach, conditions worsened. The aircraft circled for a while, then Captain Orimoloye decided to make an approach from the coast and ran inland using VOR and DME. At a late stage, the runway was sighted and the aircraft was placed to make a landing. The airfield, however, was awash with heavy rain and the crew decided to make a further go-around.
At this point Number 3 engine started to run rough and had to be shut down. A diversion to Accra was decided upon as it had better maintenance facilities and the availability of a spare engine. During the short flight to Accra, Lagos ATC called the VC10 to report that a Comet of East African Airways had just landed at Lagos and aquaplaned off the end of the runway, coming to rest in deep mud just short of the boundary. The two Captains looked at each other with gratification.
G-ARVL landed at Accra at 12:10 where the flight was terminated. As the crew were about to leave, the Engineer called them back to the tarmac to inspect the failed engine which had been fitted with experimental carbon fibre compressor blades; the basis for the new Rolls-Royce RB211 engine. To the crew's astonishment, the compressor blades had been shredded and were hanging in tatters. It was concluded that they had been damaged by exposure to heavy tropical rain. On returning to London, Gray reported that Orimoloye had passed with flying colours and was cleared to operate in command of the VC10. He also added that if he had shares in Rolls-Royce, he would sell them at once.
Rufus was a great guy and so were all the lads from Nigeria, bunch of dedicated and highly professional Pilots.
Anyone with any info on Rufus please PM me.