South African Black Pilots
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''Where are the Moderators and their axes???''
I have ask this question before....and got a''let's see where this go'' as a answer
.....pretty sad as we are getting nowhere with this these type of topics(threads).
I have ask this question before....and got a''let's see where this go'' as a answer
.....pretty sad as we are getting nowhere with this these type of topics(threads).
Ok I have trawled through this thread and I fail to understand the offence that has been taken to it.
I thought the questions were interesting and the answers back on here have, with a couple of notable exceptions, failed to answer them, instead preferring to take the thread off onto a tangent of racism.
The questions weren't difficult, yet the intelligentsia on here chose not to read them closely and to answer something that wasn't asked. You must have a different agenda to BALEWA boys.
To have the knowledge to understand the current situation and to gauge whether it has improved since 1994 or not it is necessary to know what the situation was before 1994.
I thought the questions were interesting and the answers back on here have, with a couple of notable exceptions, failed to answer them, instead preferring to take the thread off onto a tangent of racism.
The questions weren't difficult, yet the intelligentsia on here chose not to read them closely and to answer something that wasn't asked. You must have a different agenda to BALEWA boys.
To have the knowledge to understand the current situation and to gauge whether it has improved since 1994 or not it is necessary to know what the situation was before 1994.
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I certainly agree with you surely not.
The original post asked a few questions. None of them geared to offend anyone.
I actually continued reading, because I thought people who were there might have some intelligent answers. Its always good to get things from the perspective of people involved.
It is unbelievable how venomous the vitrol in this forum on the issue of race. Although it isn't surprising.
Balewa I hope you've gotten or get the answers that you are looking for. I'd like to see an intelligent discussion about it also.
To those who question if race matters check your reaction to the origin of this thread.
For the moderator I suppose its okay to make offensive remarks about gays and the mentally handicapped?! Classy!! I'm sure their black jokes are absolutely hillarious.
The original post asked a few questions. None of them geared to offend anyone.
I actually continued reading, because I thought people who were there might have some intelligent answers. Its always good to get things from the perspective of people involved.
It is unbelievable how venomous the vitrol in this forum on the issue of race. Although it isn't surprising.
Balewa I hope you've gotten or get the answers that you are looking for. I'd like to see an intelligent discussion about it also.
To those who question if race matters check your reaction to the origin of this thread.
For the moderator I suppose its okay to make offensive remarks about gays and the mentally handicapped?! Classy!! I'm sure their black jokes are absolutely hillarious.
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Balewa This is a message i got from one of the threads I posted on relating to Comair not employing black people
You are currently banned from this thread.
Reason given for this ban:
Go away and do some research for a few days. The swimming is just one tiny bit that the press leapt on. There many other complaints. You look stupid for not mentioning any of them. You aren't stupid. Do the checking.
The ban is in effect until: 24th November 2007, ~07:00
I had previously been banned for 6 months in pprune
I have seen so many posts in these forums which are far from any factual basis. Don't think those people were ever banned rightly so, this is a rumour network. In these forums the issue of lack of transformation in SA Aviation is a taboo topic. Kinda reminds me when the political movements were banned in South Africa when they challenged apartheid. So you see it's still alive in SA Aviation.
You are currently banned from this thread.
Reason given for this ban:
Go away and do some research for a few days. The swimming is just one tiny bit that the press leapt on. There many other complaints. You look stupid for not mentioning any of them. You aren't stupid. Do the checking.
The ban is in effect until: 24th November 2007, ~07:00
I had previously been banned for 6 months in pprune
I have seen so many posts in these forums which are far from any factual basis. Don't think those people were ever banned rightly so, this is a rumour network. In these forums the issue of lack of transformation in SA Aviation is a taboo topic. Kinda reminds me when the political movements were banned in South Africa when they challenged apartheid. So you see it's still alive in SA Aviation.
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I have seen so many posts in these forums which are far from any factual basis. Don't think those people were ever banned rightly so, this is a rumour network. In these forums the issue of lack of transformation in SA Aviation is a taboo topic. Kinda reminds me when the political movements were banned in South Africa when they challenged apartheid. So you see it's still alive in SA Aviation.
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Balewa,
i told you so,when it comes to Colour,( Black.)..guys just loose it and go off on unchartered cross countries.......the facts are known you just asked what is the present situation.....difficult,with the mind set that has come out of SA,in this day and age. Make we leave our Cousins i beg HARD.
i told you so,when it comes to Colour,( Black.)..guys just loose it and go off on unchartered cross countries.......the facts are known you just asked what is the present situation.....difficult,with the mind set that has come out of SA,in this day and age. Make we leave our Cousins i beg
HARD.
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"QUOTE"
'I cant believe how many south Africans fell for this thread.'
Well could you elaborate more than the SA who as you said fell for this thread, whats so unbelievable than what we have seen posted here.
Regarding the offensive remarks about gays and the mentally handicapped, I believe the moderators will act soon
and like someone rightly said I'm sure their black jokes would be absolutely hillarious.
To all those calling on the moderators to axe this thread I say why, what are we trying to hide or cover up, BALEWA asked a simple and now very interesting questions.
Believe it or not, Race and Culture are very important issues in the aviation industry nowadays, especially as it concerns crewing, most airlines in the world today have and enjoy the fact of having a multiracial and multicoloured efficient crew, and will ask you during their interviews if you have a problem working in this environment
It is scary to know that we still have a lot of people out there who would answer a "No I do not have a problem with that" get the job, and get away with it, but still show up here on pprune teeth gnashing and clawing away!
I sincerely hope the airlines are watching this page might just learn a few things here.
The moderators know their duty to all here on pprune, been here long enough to know that, all they have to do here is moderate and balance the thread, looks like we are in for the long haul this time around.
I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread.
'I cant believe how many south Africans fell for this thread.'
Well could you elaborate more than the SA who as you said fell for this thread, whats so unbelievable than what we have seen posted here.
Regarding the offensive remarks about gays and the mentally handicapped, I believe the moderators will act soon
and like someone rightly said I'm sure their black jokes would be absolutely hillarious. To all those calling on the moderators to axe this thread I say why, what are we trying to hide or cover up, BALEWA asked a simple and now very interesting questions.
Believe it or not, Race and Culture are very important issues in the aviation industry nowadays, especially as it concerns crewing, most airlines in the world today have and enjoy the fact of having a multiracial and multicoloured efficient crew, and will ask you during their interviews if you have a problem working in this environment
It is scary to know that we still have a lot of people out there who would answer a "No I do not have a problem with that" get the job, and get away with it, but still show up here on pprune teeth gnashing and clawing away!
I sincerely hope the airlines are watching this page might just learn a few things here.
The moderators know their duty to all here on pprune, been here long enough to know that, all they have to do here is moderate and balance the thread, looks like we are in for the long haul this time around.
I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread.
Last edited by ZAZOO; 21st Nov 2007 at 14:59.
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Only the militant small 'l' liberal politically correct would take offence to this discussion.
Like it or not, culture and race are intertwined with aviation in Africa.
Argueing that a thread like this is 'baiting' or offensive in anyway only shows how far your head is buried in the sand.
The reality of South Africa is that race is playing a MAJOR role in aviation..particularily in who's getting their foot in the door and who knows not to bother even applying...
Thats the just the way it is....
Deal with it
Like it or not, culture and race are intertwined with aviation in Africa.
Argueing that a thread like this is 'baiting' or offensive in anyway only shows how far your head is buried in the sand.
The reality of South Africa is that race is playing a MAJOR role in aviation..particularily in who's getting their foot in the door and who knows not to bother even applying...
Thats the just the way it is....
Deal with it
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A few brothers got into the flying buck a couple of years ago under the affirmative action, 2 have been bucked out, one grounded and one still holding on for dear life. It seems they did not stand a chance right from the beginning. Life must have been hell for them. Keep your chin up guys.
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2 have been bucked out, one grounded and one still holding on for dear life. It seems they did not stand a chance right from the beginning. Life must have been hell for them.
They had every possible chance right from the beginning to paraphrase your words. For them to be out the system means that they were beyond all attempts at remedial action/training.
Don't bluff yourself that anti-black racism at SAA will succeed in getting rid of a "brother". If a "brother" is fired at SAA, it will be despite every possible attempt of management to keep him there, and probably just indicates his relative ability or lack thereof.
The cadets coming through the system (and I have flown with several of them) tell me that they are treated with respect by all their colleagues and most of them are using the opportunity to its fullest extent.
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Can anyone please provide an intelligent answer to the original question posted, I cant understand how so many people could take offence to this.
Secondly, and out of academic interest alone, does anyone know if any black people were legally alowed to hold pilots licences under the old sa government apt policy ?
Additionally, what happend to the many black pilots trained up to fly in the Homeland airforces of the, Transkei, Bop, Ciskei and Venda ? Did any of those guys go Civvie after 94 ?
Advance apologies if these questions cause offence to some.
Secondly, and out of academic interest alone, does anyone know if any black people were legally alowed to hold pilots licences under the old sa government apt policy ?
Additionally, what happend to the many black pilots trained up to fly in the Homeland airforces of the, Transkei, Bop, Ciskei and Venda ? Did any of those guys go Civvie after 94 ?
Advance apologies if these questions cause offence to some.
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"Do you for one moment think that management would allow the "royal game" to be fired?"
Maybe YES, look at the state of the airline today. Maybe No. Your guess will be as good as mine.
Affirmative action isn’t very popular in SA and in flying buck airways too. I have witnessed now aggrieved some of the buck personnel are, now that the shoe is on the other foot.
It is possible to intimidated and break the confidence of anyone (competent or not), if the powers that weald the pen decide too. I just hope the royal game was given every chance; if they weren’t that would have been a great injustice and a shame to all concerned.
I rest my case.
Maybe YES, look at the state of the airline today. Maybe No. Your guess will be as good as mine.
Affirmative action isn’t very popular in SA and in flying buck airways too. I have witnessed now aggrieved some of the buck personnel are, now that the shoe is on the other foot.
It is possible to intimidated and break the confidence of anyone (competent or not), if the powers that weald the pen decide too. I just hope the royal game was given every chance; if they weren’t that would have been a great injustice and a shame to all concerned.
I rest my case.
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Father/Mother Time is great at levelling the playing field...the white croc and smithie could not keep their bodies and abhorrent philosophies on Mother Earth forever..........the global village marches on.
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kuntakinte your lak of knowledge about Rhodesia and Zimbabwe is apparent, I would be interested in hearing how Smith and the Croc can be compared to eachother....if you display the lack of knowledge I think you might I will happily educate you.
Yes Smith has died, and his successor His Royal Exellency the honorable Robert Gabrial Mugage has been in power for 27 years now and managed to turn the jewel of Africa into a steaming pile of sh1t.
The Government is quick to blame companies about lack of compliance to the act, however where are the government programmes to train pilots, where are the houses that were promised, where is the law and order, where is the electricity....let me guess...Mismanaged, much like the rest of Africa....oh but we have managed to create a few black billionairs, nice one kuntakinte, let me let you in on a little piece of information.....on one of my regular trips to Zim I had a conversation with an elderly black gentleman, his words were "we never suffered like this in Rhodesia"....so yay Smith is Dead, hoooray Africa has triumphed, you kuntakinte deserve to be ruled by people like Mugabe
Yes Smith has died, and his successor His Royal Exellency the honorable Robert Gabrial Mugage has been in power for 27 years now and managed to turn the jewel of Africa into a steaming pile of sh1t.
The Government is quick to blame companies about lack of compliance to the act, however where are the government programmes to train pilots, where are the houses that were promised, where is the law and order, where is the electricity....let me guess...Mismanaged, much like the rest of Africa....oh but we have managed to create a few black billionairs, nice one kuntakinte, let me let you in on a little piece of information.....on one of my regular trips to Zim I had a conversation with an elderly black gentleman, his words were "we never suffered like this in Rhodesia"....so yay Smith is Dead, hoooray Africa has triumphed, you kuntakinte deserve to be ruled by people like Mugabe
Last edited by fluffyfan; 21st Nov 2007 at 20:37.
Quote - "could you train to be a pilot in SA"
Getting back to Balewa's original post, I would ask are there any black ultralight pilots/clubs in Africa. One thing I notice in Australia is the number of wanna be, current and former airline pilots in the ultralight scene.
Getting back to Balewa's original post, I would ask are there any black ultralight pilots/clubs in Africa. One thing I notice in Australia is the number of wanna be, current and former airline pilots in the ultralight scene.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 22nd Nov 2007 at 11:31. Reason: add quote
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I am not South African, African, European, black or white/Caucasian. I am a Latin-American guy so pls take my post from a different point of view and perspective.
First of all I think the question that started the present thread is very interesting. I really would like to know how was the aviation in South Africa before 1994 mainly regarding with the black pilots. It is not a racist question is just a normal and think legitimate doubt.
Second: let’s make some things clear, apartheid was a brutal regimen that systematically violated the human rights and people who did not belong to the Caucasian race did not have the minimum rights and privileges that whites had. Fortunately that regimen is over and South Africans (all races) have shown to the rest of the world a proof of maturity going thorough a peaceful political transition.
Third: From my perspective the black empowerment/positive affirmation never should have been applied to the labor sector. If you want to have a growing economy/country only the most skilled people must be hired. Does not matter if they are white, black, woman, gay, lesbian ...Nevertheless the positive actions can be applied in other areas such as education, health, loans, etc.
Fourth: This is for South Africans guys. .Pls stop been so negative…You are a very friendly people, (blacks and whites) you have a great country, and with a huge potential,. I really hope that someday you can close the bad chapter of your history and start looking to the future with hope knowing that all of you belong to the same NATION.
Best Regards.
First of all I think the question that started the present thread is very interesting. I really would like to know how was the aviation in South Africa before 1994 mainly regarding with the black pilots. It is not a racist question is just a normal and think legitimate doubt.
Second: let’s make some things clear, apartheid was a brutal regimen that systematically violated the human rights and people who did not belong to the Caucasian race did not have the minimum rights and privileges that whites had. Fortunately that regimen is over and South Africans (all races) have shown to the rest of the world a proof of maturity going thorough a peaceful political transition.
Third: From my perspective the black empowerment/positive affirmation never should have been applied to the labor sector. If you want to have a growing economy/country only the most skilled people must be hired. Does not matter if they are white, black, woman, gay, lesbian ...Nevertheless the positive actions can be applied in other areas such as education, health, loans, etc.
Fourth: This is for South Africans guys. .Pls stop been so negative…You are a very friendly people, (blacks and whites) you have a great country, and with a huge potential,. I really hope that someday you can close the bad chapter of your history and start looking to the future with hope knowing that all of you belong to the same NATION.
Best Regards.
Last edited by chileno 777; 24th Nov 2007 at 21:43.
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It maybe a little off-topic...or maybe not. I'm not south african...but spent a great deal of my flying career there,...and love it immensly.
To those who are quick to smack down aparthied...you must remember that the modern, liberal, democratic state that (with all it's problems as well) would have NEVER evolved if not for aparthied.
As brutal as it was..it allowed the development of an infrastructure that would of NEVER been in place had it not been minority rule.
RSA would of been no better than Congo, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Nigeria, Cameroun, etc etc etc....
Sorry....just the way it is....but now that the old regime is over....lets hope the New South Africa doesn't go down the road of 'creeping Zimbabwism'
All right Okes...grab a mitt of biltong and let 'er fly!
To those who are quick to smack down aparthied...you must remember that the modern, liberal, democratic state that (with all it's problems as well) would have NEVER evolved if not for aparthied.
As brutal as it was..it allowed the development of an infrastructure that would of NEVER been in place had it not been minority rule.
RSA would of been no better than Congo, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Nigeria, Cameroun, etc etc etc....
Sorry....just the way it is....but now that the old regime is over....lets hope the New South Africa doesn't go down the road of 'creeping Zimbabwism'
All right Okes...grab a mitt of biltong and let 'er fly!