Avi8tor

Hear from one of the cadets that ALL hiring at SAA has stopped. The consultants have arrived and thought that losing R3MILL A DAY was a tad much. Looks like they are gonna ditch the loss making routes.

Wonder if i am FINALLY gonna stop wasting my taxes on the national carrier? Sadly i think its gonna be like all the rest, the 'fix' for SAA is gonna be so unpalettable that they all just go home after a yr, with a fat cheque.

Maybe Comair will throw a party for SAA when it finally makes a profit too

beechbum

Yep this is true for now, unless you have a letter of appointment then everything remains as is. SAA needs to trim the work force by about 3000 people it seems, and although the airline is currently short of crew it can hardly be seen to "try" and retrench 3000 employees and at the same time hire 80 or so pilots. So in the meanwhile recruitment has been put on hold.
As for loss making routes...????? Didn't know there was any...but as any consultants do when auditing or consulting for a company, everything is put on hold until such time as a plan is brought forward to try and stem some of the bleeding...........!!!!
Hopefully this time it won't...........but it wouldn't be surprising in the least!!!!!

Deskjocky

Yes indeed, the hatchet men are in town. The Seabury team have been here for the last 2 weeks. Every department in the airline has been grilled on what they spend money on. Seabury will then cut where they feel is appropriate. Having seen this operation first hand -its ruthless and Im very sure they will come up with the required. reduction in expenditure both in SA and overseas. This is the first step in the restructure- once the results are quantified, the staff compliment will be looked at- already a great deal of duplication has been identified and will be addressed by moving the staff to departments that require manpower in the short term. Then its off to the unions….honestly Im glad I don’t have that job- with all the shenanigans the top dogs have pulled over the last few years they are doing to have a hard time negotiating!

At the same time a separate team is overhauling the sales and distribution function of the airline- specifically targeting distribution cost- again major improvements have been achieved- and will lead to serious cost reduction on an ongoing basis.

Some of the long-haul routes are not making money- the reasons vary by route, but are mostly redeemable- provided fundamental corrective action is taken immediately. Steps to address this are being presented to the board in early April and if the board agrees no-one is going to be very happy with the outcome but it will deliver the cost savings and improve route profitability.

Avi8tor

Sorry guys, to stop R3 bar a day, u need to do more that trim off a little fat.

SAA has to decide which routes it can sustain, ditch the rest, and get down to the right size with the right cost structure. Sadly SAA cost structure is so way out of line with the industry in SA. Top to btm is way over paid and way under worked. And that is flight deck as well.

Just dont see them telling everybody to take a 30% pay cut and getting rid of 1/3 of the staff. If they did, they would be on the next plane with that big cheque.

And remember not only do they have to stop bleeding over a Billion a yr, they have to made a REAL profit. Prob requires a turn around of R3 bill. In the last couple of yrs the tax payer has had to 'recapitalise' to the tune of R4 bill a yr.

Deskjocky

This is not a fat trimming exercise, DPE are not that stupid and would not be duped by that. When its all over this will become evident- size wize, SAA will definitely be a smaller airline than when this process started- that is route wise as well as fleet.

reptile

Once again Deskjockey is 100% accurate:

Alec Irwin has made it very clear (at the last meeting between SAA and his department) that the recent capital bailout was the last. His words were to the effect that the SA taxpayer will tolerate no more.

SAA will certainly end up as a more productive, streamline and competitive airline than the one we know now. I suspect that much of the domestic market currently served by SAA will end up being operated by either Mango or SAX (the money ends up in the same coffer after all).

RunwayBlueOne

Interesting times ahead for sure.

Q4NVS

Business Process Re-Engineering

That's what it used to be called when paying Consultants millions to do very little except write damning reports.

Now I've seen a number of these before, but there is one key issue that has determined the failure of most of them.

All reports/recommendations made by such consultants at one point or another make it very clear how poor an Organisation and therefore the Individuals-in-Charge are performing.

Thus, once the Executive Summary is delivered by the Consultants, they are usually thanked and paid, but their recommendations shelved...

It takes a very special brand of person/s in the Executive of any company to stand up and implement the tough decisions proposed. If these are not "pushed" from someone/somewhere who will not be directly affected, it might not happen at all.

Hope in this case, the tough decisions will be made "outside" the SAA Executive Boardroom.

JG1

Halve the salaries of the SAA pilots. Why should their salaries be so way out of line with the rest of the industry in South Africa? The rest of South Africa's pilots will chuckle as they file past the SAAPA picket lines for interviews

Solid Rust Twotter

Just remember that the trickle down effect is going to work faster when salaries are cut than when they're increased. If Spoories gets a pay cut you can be sure damned near everyone else will follow within a day or two.

fluffyfan

DJ Yes that makes sense, cut some of the revenue, thats sure to help, maybe they should stop flying loss making routes like Accra and fly to guaranteed profit making routes like Lisbon, Madrid, back to Bangkok, Miami, Sydney.
They need to cut the fat and up the revenue, that means right seat configurations, right aircraft.
I will take your quote with a pinch of salt DJ, after your prediction of Mango taking more of SAA's 800's fell flat, it seems you are not 100% correct all the time.
JG1.......... I wont even go there, but I can see how you never got into SAA......no wait let me guess you never wanted to get into SAA?
DJ sorry to digress from the original post but while on the topic of Mango, please enlighten me on the status of the Mango /SAA relationship, it seems the SAA aircraft regularly fly excess Mango baggage, Mango use SITA flight plans, now which low cost airline in there right mind would use SITA (ie the costs involved), all the flight planning, load sheets all done courtesy of SAA, when a Mango aircraft breaks down SAA aircraft and crew are used, Mango leases there aircraft from SAA at a "market related rate" (less that SAA are paying for them), Mango uses the same company equity for busses, stairs, PAU's etc, companies that are in the know know that Equity charge ridiculous fees just ask the nationwide boss thats why he has bought his own, I am sure its easy to make a profit when big brother gives you all the services for free no doubt, Mango simply passes there costs to SAA and then claims they are making a profit....smoke and mirrors and it wont be long before the likes of Comair exposes this and take SAA to the competitions board again and again SAA will get a new hole torn into it. I hope the consultants see what is happening and advise SAA that they cut Mango loose.

bianchi

JG1


Why don't you come and work for us (SAA)? Then you won't be so bitter and twisted !! I don't think you should assume that 1/2 of the other airlines pilot force would rejoice if SAA actually apply a salary cut, because the average pilot I know(that includes pilots flying for airlines other than SAA),don't enjoy seeing any airline going down,furlough,or apply salary cuts and neither do I. We are all the same ,just working for a different brand.Good luck with your career !!!!!!

Just my "3''çents worth !!

Frogman1484

Well said Bianchi, I wonder how they would feel if their employer was going through a tough time. I can tell you that I've been around long enough to know that if SAA cuts the salaries, the rest of you guys will be paid in mango's as they will not have to maintain competitive salaries to stop the mangos from leaving for better paid jobs, or at least pilot jobs where you get to wear a white shirt!!!

nugpot

I don't have any wish to see any salary cuts, but I think that the SAA guys overstate the importance of their packages for the general level of pay in SA.

Our company has made it quite clear that SAA packages have zero influence at negotiations and that we can stop bringing it up. This is obviously minuted and the reverse will be true if SAA did take pay cuts.

I hope that my fellow pilots at SAA can weather this exercise and that no retrenchments/furloughs are in the offing.

Shrike200

Seconded. Once again it seems that SAA pilots seriously believe that their fantasy salaries are of any relevance out there in the real world.
Guys - you could be paid R1 Mil per month, or R1 - it makes no difference to anybody else. Others get paid what the market dictates, based on actual profit and loss. It would be relevant if SAA actually hired people at a higher rate - but they don't. Just take a look at the title of this thread again.

I also hope that nobody gets chucked out - more pilots on the market don't help anybody. THAT would cause salaries to change for the worse.

fluffyfan

If it was not such a big issue then why keep bringing it up? you guys negotiate your salary and we will negotiate ours, I really could not give a rats what the other airline crew get paid.
But why has it come to salaries again? SAA's troubles do not stem from pilot salaries of that I assure you, management would love to blame the pilots because then it would be a bunch of whiging whitey's to blame not the friends of the ANC club, the whole system at SAA is top heavy, with massive corruption and contracts for buddies, SAA just needs to decide if they want to be the great Social experiment gravy train to 1000's.... employer of all of SA's PD people, flag waving to useless nothing countries and executive taxi to every government employee, or if they want to run a business.
Why pay R450 for a printer cartridge when you can pay R200? why pay R50 for a blank disk when they actually cost R5, why keep using companies like Equity who are very expensive and there staff steal stuff from the passengers bagage, why keep using Airchef's who produce misserable meals at twice the price of the competition, why use Equity crew busses which cost R800 000 a month when you could go and buy yourself a few crew busses? ....why......because your BEE buddies are suppling these things and we must spread the wealth and pay our buddies well.
Stop with the salary thing, its got very little to do with SAA's troubles, if you are unhappy with your present salary then move, do what other people do and better yourself.
Quote from Alec Irwin "SAA is a strategic asset, and will remain a strategic asset"

I would have no problem in taking a pay cut, they must just fix the root cause of the real trouble first before they come to the pilots and ask for help, the SAA pilots and Cabin Crew are probably the only people who have a vested interest in the future of SAA, everyone else is just there to rape and pillage and take what they can get.

JG1

Fluffy, your comment "I really could not give a rats what the other airline crew get paid" is the reason why they will be chuckling as they walk past the SAAPA picket lines for interviews.

If SAA is to be run as a profit-making business it can't continue to bleed by paying pie-in-the-sky salaries to anyone, pilots included.

Frogman1484

JGI You have no idea of what you are talking about. Do you know what percentage of costs is attributed to Pilot Salaries versus Fuel, maintenance etc. It is not that SAA pilots are over paid but that you are under paid for what you are doing. Now do not get me wrong here mate , I do not work for SAA but I'm getting a bit fed up with people like you that are always looking at what others are getting paid and then bitch when you do not get the same, but at the same time will take a lower paying package or even pay for your own rating...bollocks mate

RoMit345

Well said Frogman1484. More SA crew need to stop the comparisons and decide to stand up for what they think is their value! (not too many of these where I work ).

Back to the thread - at the very least we have another angle to the SAA debacle. Unless I'm mistaken these fellas sorted out Air Canada? Nothing is gonna change unless we get a semi-level playing field for the rest of the operators. Anyone know how long these processes take?

Avi8tor

My initial post said that everybody at SAA is overpaid in comparison to the industry. I have no idea how the flight deck can ever justify their salaries. However, I am not saying they are the only ones.

I have every right to comment on what SAA earns, I am its only share holder. This is not an attack on my many friends at SAA. But -

I AM THE TAX PAYER, ALL SAA WORKS FOR ME.

If SAA were a private or a listed company, that would be different. But as its only share holder, I want a profit. And sadly, labour is supply and demand. Last time i looked, there are plenty of guys earning peanuts flying rubber dog do around. Also plenty of people queueing to be check- in staff , COE's etc.

I want my taxes to be spent on fixing roads, providing electricity and stopping crime.