SAA to hire foreigners!!!
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SAA to hire foreigners!!!
Heard via the vine today that since SAA cannot find suitable AA candidates locally that they will be sourced from further afield. Any truth behind this? As someone that is sitting on the shortlist I was quite surprised that SAAPA would allow such a move but totally not surprised that the CEO would veto this action. Is this the beginning of the end?
Maybe its time.........!!!!!!!
Maybe its time.........!!!!!!!
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If this is true it's going to cause some friction in the industry! How can an airline that is the national carrier of a country even consider employing foreign pilots if there is an abundant supply of eager and experienced pilots in the country who would do just about anything to fly for them?!?
And as far as I know if you are registered as a "Proudly South Africa" company operating in South Africa... as I'm sure SAA is... you're supposed to support South African development and local standards. How are you doing this if you employ foreigners.
Before they do this they just better do their research carefully because I'm sure ALPA, amongst others, will have something to say about this...
And as far as I know if you are registered as a "Proudly South Africa" company operating in South Africa... as I'm sure SAA is... you're supposed to support South African development and local standards. How are you doing this if you employ foreigners.
Before they do this they just better do their research carefully because I'm sure ALPA, amongst others, will have something to say about this...
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I was speaking recently with an engineer who has had a fair amount to do with BEE requirements in the civil engineering sector - I was quite shocked to learn that BEE requirements can easily be met by employing non-South Africans, as long as they are (of course) black. In the case quoted to me, the company was employing black Zim engineers, who are all keen on getting out of Zim, and very happy to have an SA engineers salary.
I would imagine that BEE requirements can just as easily be met by SAA using non SA pilots.
'Some friction' is perhaps an understatement! But it's not like we have any say in this uni-party 'democracy' of ours. I can only think of JG1's great post again - It's the "We win, you lose, suck it down and screw whats good for the country of South Africa" mentality at work. I would say 'get used to it', but frankly I doubt this comes as a big surprise to most. It remains to be seen whether sanity will prevail, I will stay hopeful.
As a further thought: I suppose it's obvious really. 'BEE' stands for 'Black Economic Empowerment' - it makes no mention of South Africa at all. JG1, you sure nailed it!
I would imagine that BEE requirements can just as easily be met by SAA using non SA pilots.
'Some friction' is perhaps an understatement! But it's not like we have any say in this uni-party 'democracy' of ours. I can only think of JG1's great post again - It's the "We win, you lose, suck it down and screw whats good for the country of South Africa" mentality at work. I would say 'get used to it', but frankly I doubt this comes as a big surprise to most. It remains to be seen whether sanity will prevail, I will stay hopeful.
As a further thought: I suppose it's obvious really. 'BEE' stands for 'Black Economic Empowerment' - it makes no mention of South Africa at all. JG1, you sure nailed it!
Last edited by Shrike200; 17th May 2006 at 19:15.
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Springbok449, whose side are you on chap? I agree that places like the UAE, Hong Kong and a few other expat colonies will hire foreigners as there are no qualified locals to fill the positions,so take a look at the big picture my friend. You can't get a job in the UK, US, Aussie or Europe, if you don't have the right to live and work there.So why should the rules be bent to accomodate SAA? I think your comment is in poor taste.......!!!!!
So you would rather have the national carrier flown by Ghanians, Zimbabweans, Nigerians etc.., when there are suitably qualified SA pilots in the market place? Ummmm!!!! Like I said, if that's the case its time......!!!
Are you and Khaya big buddies, that you think in such an irrational manner.....
Take it elsewhere.......maybe the M25 .......!!!!!
So you would rather have the national carrier flown by Ghanians, Zimbabweans, Nigerians etc.., when there are suitably qualified SA pilots in the market place? Ummmm!!!! Like I said, if that's the case its time......!!!
Are you and Khaya big buddies, that you think in such an irrational manner.....
Take it elsewhere.......maybe the M25 .......!!!!!
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SB449, it's not quite the same. If SAA wants to hire them based solely on their skin colour, AND when there are a great many qualified South Africans here......well, you can't really compare the two situations can you? Even worse would be making some kind of arrangements for them to get work/residency permits - that would be wildly unfair on the many SA guys knocking on the door of SAA right now. It's not the same as Cathay/Emirates etc, who hire based on an applicants suitability for the job, not his/her skin colour.
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Don't be surprised guys (kerels) - it happened back in the past when SAA employed people from the UK when BA couldn't take on cadets they had sponsored at CSE they ended up flyng for SAA and when the call came for them to come back to BA many stayed with SAA and some of them are still there! It's just that they had the right skin colour then too I suppose.
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Sounds like a wind up to me. let me just reasure you, SAAPA could effectivley ground SAA with a pilot strike, and yes that would possibly be the end of SAA (I doubt it though where would all the black pilots fly, how would all the ministers and others abuse the gravy plane if SAA goes down?)
A move as suggested above would bring SAAPA to the brink of a strike, I highly doubt such a move would take place, not the way you suggest, there are rumours of a few 1 or 2 who have already got in but they had ID's so maybe something funny going on with the issue of citizenship, dont know.
Personally if it happened on a large scale and recruitment started from other coutries, I would support SAAPA in a strike, I would also start to pack my bags and head to greener pastures because I want no part of a country that treats its citizens like that
A move as suggested above would bring SAAPA to the brink of a strike, I highly doubt such a move would take place, not the way you suggest, there are rumours of a few 1 or 2 who have already got in but they had ID's so maybe something funny going on with the issue of citizenship, dont know.
Personally if it happened on a large scale and recruitment started from other coutries, I would support SAAPA in a strike, I would also start to pack my bags and head to greener pastures because I want no part of a country that treats its citizens like that
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Agree with springbok449. There are one hell of a lot of SA's flying for companies outside of "their" country, so what's the problem?
You chaps are going to have to learn quickly, that there is such a thing called reciprocation.
You chaps are going to have to learn quickly, that there is such a thing called reciprocation.
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"was to move beyond the mindset where race is a factor."
SRT didnt we just beat that dead horse?? Whitey has got to go, just a matter of how long it will take.
"Maybe now you south africains will know how we brits feel when you come over to the Uk and take our jobs."
Paddy maybe your not as good as those who took your job, ever consider that.................Put your Bose headset on and listen to the voices. In my company here in the states, we have Japanese, German, Swiss, Aussies, and yes one or two Brits.
SRT didnt we just beat that dead horse?? Whitey has got to go, just a matter of how long it will take.
"Maybe now you south africains will know how we brits feel when you come over to the Uk and take our jobs."
Paddy maybe your not as good as those who took your job, ever consider that.................Put your Bose headset on and listen to the voices. In my company here in the states, we have Japanese, German, Swiss, Aussies, and yes one or two Brits.
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Real A....s....holes
Its not about foreigners. That's not the point. Its about colour of skin
and that just pi......s me off. How can anybody approve of this. And
don't try and tell me about the
past.
If this is true I hope a strike does happen and I hope SAA goes for a sh.....
Thank you for not flying SAA!
hie hie hie hie hie hie hie hie
and that just pi......s me off. How can anybody approve of this. And
don't try and tell me about the
past.If this is true I hope a strike does happen and I hope SAA goes for a sh.....
Thank you for not flying SAA!
hie hie hie hie hie hie hie hie
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Personally i reckon if you hire pilots from other countries thats fine - BUT a policy based on skin colour only when you have ample of your own citizens is an outright DISGRACE!!!!
At Cx and Ek you are hired from elsewhere due to a shortage of local suitable candidates and not a policy based on rectifying a demographic.
Paddy, exactly which SA pilots are you referring to? The one's that have UK and EU passports....Because they ARE actually allowed there as much as you are!!!!!!
Unlike pilots that according to this rumour would be joining a South African Airline from other African countries without South African passports.
I hope that this is just a rumour as it would be a very sad day for SA aviation.
At Cx and Ek you are hired from elsewhere due to a shortage of local suitable candidates and not a policy based on rectifying a demographic.
Paddy, exactly which SA pilots are you referring to? The one's that have UK and EU passports....Because they ARE actually allowed there as much as you are!!!!!!
Unlike pilots that according to this rumour would be joining a South African Airline from other African countries without South African passports.
I hope that this is just a rumour as it would be a very sad day for SA aviation.
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This is an emotive issue which I think that the likes of Paddy and FKA will never truly understand.
Let's hope that if this issue does materialise that SAAPA will stand up for all concerned.
Fluffyfan, must admit this is not the first time I've heard about this.....maybe there's truth in a rumour. Who knows? Let's hope not anyway.
By the way Paddy those that you refer to have the right to live and work on your land.....those that I refer to, do not!!!!
It's simple........from where I'm sitting, a very different scenario!!!!
Let's hope that if this issue does materialise that SAAPA will stand up for all concerned.
Fluffyfan, must admit this is not the first time I've heard about this.....maybe there's truth in a rumour. Who knows? Let's hope not anyway.
By the way Paddy those that you refer to have the right to live and work on your land.....those that I refer to, do not!!!!
It's simple........from where I'm sitting, a very different scenario!!!!
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Inevitable
Well, I suppose this was always on the cards with the ANC having to pay back their "struggle" buddies. As the oldest liberation movement in Africa that could never in its entire history achieve anything worth a damn by themselves, they will always be paying back! The part that p 's me off is they use OUR tax money to achieve this! They carry on as if they have some sort of divine right to legalise theft from us to follow their own dubious agendas. They do NOTHING for the country, put nothing worthwhile back and in effect rape the country. They will continue to do this until they kill the goose which lays the golden egg and then starve like the rest of Africa at which point all the mighty Brits, Yanks, etc. will be called on to bail them out of the c p they created. Just like the entire African continent. Anyway, SAA have already employed people in management from other countries, including UK citizens. Seems the negative side of BEE conditions/requirements only apply to SA whites? I for one will not fly for SAA or with SAA should they implement this policy. Already Africa has the worst safety record in the world, now we must get these morons? Just like the Cuban doctors and teachers they want to force on us.
's me off is they use OUR tax money to achieve this! They carry on as if they have some sort of divine right to legalise theft from us to follow their own dubious agendas. They do NOTHING for the country, put nothing worthwhile back and in effect rape the country. They will continue to do this until they kill the goose which lays the golden egg and then starve like the rest of Africa at which point all the mighty Brits, Yanks, etc. will be called on to bail them out of the c p they created. Just like the entire African continent. Anyway, SAA have already employed people in management from other countries, including UK citizens. Seems the negative side of BEE conditions/requirements only apply to SA whites? I for one will not fly for SAA or with SAA should they implement this policy. Already Africa has the worst safety record in the world, now we must get these morons? Just like the Cuban doctors and teachers they want to force on us.
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Imagaine I am a government minister reading all this. First thing I would notice is that a white-hot button has been pushed and passion is gushing out. But being a rational guy I ignore the passion, comments about my party the ANC, governement etc and try to find the crux of the matter.
Is it about job protection, is it about want-to-get-ins being frustrated, is it about anti-SAAism or is it about foreigners? I trawl through the comments, then Eureka, I find an answer. Hyenacackle says it's about something I missed; skin colour and he also says he doesn't want to be reminded of the past.
So I phone my pal in the transport ministry who tells me that less than 5% of the pilots are black, so what's the problem?
But then he puts a spin on it; he says 10% of the population occupies 95% of the pilot jobs!! What's more, he says, many are ex-military pilots. Aaaaah I'm slowly getting it. No wonder Hyenacackle doesn't want to talk about the past.
So my takeout on this is; nobody is offering any constructive comments about my government's clearly stated and binding policy of black empowerment, i.e. helping those who have clearly been historically disadvantaged, which includes the world of aviation. Sadly I see that many threads are actually calling for the opposite... and ironically their own destruction by bringing SAA down.
Eeeeeish, and we own the airline too. I'm getting angry...
Is it about job protection, is it about want-to-get-ins being frustrated, is it about anti-SAAism or is it about foreigners? I trawl through the comments, then Eureka, I find an answer. Hyenacackle says it's about something I missed; skin colour and he also says he doesn't want to be reminded of the past.
So I phone my pal in the transport ministry who tells me that less than 5% of the pilots are black, so what's the problem?
But then he puts a spin on it; he says 10% of the population occupies 95% of the pilot jobs!! What's more, he says, many are ex-military pilots. Aaaaah I'm slowly getting it. No wonder Hyenacackle doesn't want to talk about the past.
So my takeout on this is; nobody is offering any constructive comments about my government's clearly stated and binding policy of black empowerment, i.e. helping those who have clearly been historically disadvantaged, which includes the world of aviation. Sadly I see that many threads are actually calling for the opposite... and ironically their own destruction by bringing SAA down.
Eeeeeish, and we own the airline too. I'm getting angry...
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Starcrest, so you're saying it's OK to bring in foreigners to do those jobs while qualified South Africans are excluded because of the colour of their skin? I think this was tried before and deemed to be a failure...
Last I looked two wrongs still didn't make a right.
By all means, encourage PDIs to participate and even pave the way for them to a certain extent but to blatantly discriminate against a sector of the population on the grounds of race is wrong and that's what's happening in this case. The barrier to entry for a white male at SAA is almost insurmountable, even in the face of crew shortages.
Last I looked two wrongs still didn't make a right.By all means, encourage PDIs to participate and even pave the way for them to a certain extent but to blatantly discriminate against a sector of the population on the grounds of race is wrong and that's what's happening in this case. The barrier to entry for a white male at SAA is almost insurmountable, even in the face of crew shortages.
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SRT well put, we have people from outside of SA all commenting on things they dont really understand, its not the same issue as Ireland, or Emirates or Cathay, there is no shortage of crew here in SA, just a shortage of black crew.
flying paddy how would you like it if Ryanair suddenly decided that there were not enough Protestants in the company and even though there are qualified Prodestants in Ireland or Europe they decided to ignore those people and only hire from the US.........thats more like the situtaion we are talking about here.
Starcrest
Have you read the "Affirmative action at SAA" thead ? why dont you go and read that thread properly and see if anyone is offering constructive comments.
My opinion is that the "Mighty Brits , Yanks etc" do nothing to help anyone unless there is something in it for them ie oil, they have caused a great many problems in the world today and do very little to help anyone.....re Zimababwe
The pilots union at SAA is very powerfull, with 99.9% membership of the SAA pilots, when the Argentinians came to fly for SAA on contract it was a big process with lots of negotiation, I can assure you there has been no negotation about the hiring of foreign pilots to correct the race ratio, you would know if there was because the pilots would probably be on strike and SAA would probably cease to exist, in which case flying paddy I am coming with my British Passport to take your job.
flying paddy how would you like it if Ryanair suddenly decided that there were not enough Protestants in the company and even though there are qualified Prodestants in Ireland or Europe they decided to ignore those people and only hire from the US.........thats more like the situtaion we are talking about here.
Starcrest
So my takeout on this is; nobody is offering any constructive comments about my government's clearly stated and binding policy of black empowerment, i.e. helping those who have clearly been historically disadvantaged, which includes the world of aviation. Sadly I see that many threads are actually calling for the opposite... and ironically their own destruction by bringing SAA down.
They do NOTHING for the country, put nothing worthwhile back and in effect rape the country. They will continue to do this until they kill the goose which lays the golden egg and then starve like the rest of Africa at which point all the mighty Brits, Yanks, etc. will be called on to bail them out of the c p they created. Just like the entire African continent.
The pilots union at SAA is very powerfull, with 99.9% membership of the SAA pilots, when the Argentinians came to fly for SAA on contract it was a big process with lots of negotiation, I can assure you there has been no negotation about the hiring of foreign pilots to correct the race ratio, you would know if there was because the pilots would probably be on strike and SAA would probably cease to exist, in which case flying paddy I am coming with my British Passport to take your job.