Civair
Join Date: May 2002
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From IOL.co.za today
Fledgling airline to refund passengers
Maureen Marud
December 02 2004 at 12:48PM
No frills airline Civair is advising passengers booked on its only Boeing 747-200 to make other travel arrangements.
"I am not going to guarantee that our problems will be resolved overnight," Andy Cluver, CEO of Civair, said on Wednesday. "I would rather refund their money so that they can try to get on another airline. We have been very honest about it."
This week Civair announced that the start of its advertised low-cost, no frills service had again been delayed due to circumstances "beyond our control". Originally scheduled to fly on October 30, the inaugural flight was first postponed to December 4, and now to December 18.
Cluver said on Wednesday the cause of the delay was "our investor base did not come to light at the last minute", and there was no guarantee that the money Civair needed to get off the ground would be available by December 18.
The airline was supposed to fly between Cape Town, Durban and London's Stansted airport, for a return fare of about R4 000, economy class.
Cluver estimated that about 500 bookings had been affected by the delay.
Asked if the service would ever get off the ground, Cluver replied: "We are not going to stop trying. Maybe next year we will come up with some specials for these people."
Kobus Nell, chartered accountant with the firm Alliott, Andersen and Nell of Diep River, said his firm was keeping all fares paid by passengers in a trust account, and some refunds had already been paid.
"We were appointed by the Civil Aviation Authority to manage the money people paid for tickets so that, if anything should go wrong, the money would be secure and could be paid back.
"Passengers are getting all their money back, whatever they deposited."
Meanwhile calls and email messages have been streaming in to the Cape Argus from disappointed passengers and family members who were expecting Christmas visitors to arrive on Civair.
Jake Patterson of Somerset West said his son Peter had booked with Civair to fly to Britain to propose, get married and return with his bride.
"This delay in his wedding plans will change his whole life. It has put a damper on everything.
"We are trying all the flights for any cancellations. Of course, we would have to help him with the extra ticket costs now."
Like many other callers, Patterson asked: "How can they advertise something like this and take bookings for it, when it has not been finalised? It is unbelievable!"
Some would-be passengers complained that they could not get through to the fledgling airline's telephone, nor its email.
Oliver Potgieter of London, who had hoped to reach Cape Town by December 18 in time for his brother's wedding, said he had tried without success to reach Civair by email and their phone number was permanently engaged.
"I fully understand the pressures of new business, but having had no information or correspondence from them is inexcusable," he said.
Cluver said on Wednesday: "So many people are phoning that we cannot answer our phones. And our e-mail is down."
He asked people to communicate with Civair by
emailing [email protected]. The telephone number is 021 934 4462.
Maureen Marud
December 02 2004 at 12:48PM
No frills airline Civair is advising passengers booked on its only Boeing 747-200 to make other travel arrangements.
"I am not going to guarantee that our problems will be resolved overnight," Andy Cluver, CEO of Civair, said on Wednesday. "I would rather refund their money so that they can try to get on another airline. We have been very honest about it."
This week Civair announced that the start of its advertised low-cost, no frills service had again been delayed due to circumstances "beyond our control". Originally scheduled to fly on October 30, the inaugural flight was first postponed to December 4, and now to December 18.
Cluver said on Wednesday the cause of the delay was "our investor base did not come to light at the last minute", and there was no guarantee that the money Civair needed to get off the ground would be available by December 18.
The airline was supposed to fly between Cape Town, Durban and London's Stansted airport, for a return fare of about R4 000, economy class.
Cluver estimated that about 500 bookings had been affected by the delay.
Asked if the service would ever get off the ground, Cluver replied: "We are not going to stop trying. Maybe next year we will come up with some specials for these people."
Kobus Nell, chartered accountant with the firm Alliott, Andersen and Nell of Diep River, said his firm was keeping all fares paid by passengers in a trust account, and some refunds had already been paid.
"We were appointed by the Civil Aviation Authority to manage the money people paid for tickets so that, if anything should go wrong, the money would be secure and could be paid back.
"Passengers are getting all their money back, whatever they deposited."
Meanwhile calls and email messages have been streaming in to the Cape Argus from disappointed passengers and family members who were expecting Christmas visitors to arrive on Civair.
Jake Patterson of Somerset West said his son Peter had booked with Civair to fly to Britain to propose, get married and return with his bride.
"This delay in his wedding plans will change his whole life. It has put a damper on everything.
"We are trying all the flights for any cancellations. Of course, we would have to help him with the extra ticket costs now."
Like many other callers, Patterson asked: "How can they advertise something like this and take bookings for it, when it has not been finalised? It is unbelievable!"
Some would-be passengers complained that they could not get through to the fledgling airline's telephone, nor its email.
Oliver Potgieter of London, who had hoped to reach Cape Town by December 18 in time for his brother's wedding, said he had tried without success to reach Civair by email and their phone number was permanently engaged.
"I fully understand the pressures of new business, but having had no information or correspondence from them is inexcusable," he said.
Cluver said on Wednesday: "So many people are phoning that we cannot answer our phones. And our e-mail is down."
He asked people to communicate with Civair by
emailing [email protected]. The telephone number is 021 934 4462.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I guess that people on the street are pretty gullible. Right from the start the guys in the industry have been shouting "Red Flag!" and it has been confirmed that they were correct.
The afrikaans expression, goedkoop is deurkoop, really works well in this instance. I feel sorry for all those naive individuals who believed that they were going to London very cheaply. Hard lesson learned. I hope that AC does not go through the same process (as he is promising to do) and dupe many more next year!
The afrikaans expression, goedkoop is deurkoop, really works well in this instance. I feel sorry for all those naive individuals who believed that they were going to London very cheaply. Hard lesson learned. I hope that AC does not go through the same process (as he is promising to do) and dupe many more next year!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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copy email from civair - this related to booking for 30/12 return 9/1. It would appear that these are being sent out to anyone who chases them for a response.
==========================================
CIVAIR FLIGHT CANCELATIONS
Dear Valued Customer,
Due to a delay beyond our control, we will not commence with the intended
flights, until further notice.
Passengers booked on flights can request a refund which will be paid in
terms with our conditions of sale. There could be a delay in receiving
refunds outside of South Africa as they require exchange control approval.
We will require the following information to process the refund:
1. Credit card / bank account details.
2. BANK SORT CODE (for ALL foreign accounts including VISA and MasterCard
accounts)
3. Full name & physical address of the Bank.
4. Physical address of the passenger/sponsor who is holder of the account.
5. For credit cards we need the Bank name, which holds the card and a branch
name & physical address.
6. A COPY OF THE BANK STATEMENT REFLECTING THE PAYMENT made to Civair
Airways (required for authorisation of the refund).
PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT NO REFUNDS WILL BE ACTIONED UNLESS ALL THE ABOVE
INFORMATION IS FURNISHED
Please follow the following procedures to claim your refund:
1. Send an e-mail to [email protected] with your date of travel in the
subject line.
2. At the top of the e-mail, quote the passenger's full name and
surname, the Order Number and PNR numbers.
3. Attach bank documentation referred to above or fax to +27 21 934
4462. Mark all faxed correspondence clearly.
Not following the above procedures may delay your refund.
We do regret and apologise for this inconvenience.
Yours Sincerely
Andy Cluver
C.E.O.
==========================================
CIVAIR FLIGHT CANCELATIONS
Dear Valued Customer,
Due to a delay beyond our control, we will not commence with the intended
flights, until further notice.
Passengers booked on flights can request a refund which will be paid in
terms with our conditions of sale. There could be a delay in receiving
refunds outside of South Africa as they require exchange control approval.
We will require the following information to process the refund:
1. Credit card / bank account details.
2. BANK SORT CODE (for ALL foreign accounts including VISA and MasterCard
accounts)
3. Full name & physical address of the Bank.
4. Physical address of the passenger/sponsor who is holder of the account.
5. For credit cards we need the Bank name, which holds the card and a branch
name & physical address.
6. A COPY OF THE BANK STATEMENT REFLECTING THE PAYMENT made to Civair
Airways (required for authorisation of the refund).
PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT NO REFUNDS WILL BE ACTIONED UNLESS ALL THE ABOVE
INFORMATION IS FURNISHED
Please follow the following procedures to claim your refund:
1. Send an e-mail to [email protected] with your date of travel in the
subject line.
2. At the top of the e-mail, quote the passenger's full name and
surname, the Order Number and PNR numbers.
3. Attach bank documentation referred to above or fax to +27 21 934
4462. Mark all faxed correspondence clearly.
Not following the above procedures may delay your refund.
We do regret and apologise for this inconvenience.
Yours Sincerely
Andy Cluver
C.E.O.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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One wonders how much longer we are going to have to put up with this conman. He has a PROVEN RECORD of FAILED ATTEMPTS to operate an airline. Look at his history:
C Town to Plett - FAILED
Joberg to Kimberley - FAILED
C Town via Durban/Joberg to Kruger International - NEVER GOT AIRBORNE
and now we have him trying to fly to London!!
My heart goes out to those people who were led to believe that this airline would fly and booked tickets. Those that know Civair know that it will NEVER get going and with all the negative publicity at the moment, does he really expect to get this route operating? TO those families that were hoping for a re-union over Xmas I feel for you - something you have really looked forward to will never happen now. I was asked by about 30 people, via family or friends, etc if this attempt at an airline was worth booking on and I managed to convince them not to book there. Luckily for them!
Does he really think that he is now going to get this up and running. One looks at his office - a worn out timber shack at the airport and one had to wonder what he was trying to do.
I think this could be a good one for the Scorpions.
All that he has so far succeeded in doing is giving SA aviation a bad name and added to the list of fly-by-night operators that hoped to hit the land of milk and honey, with scant disregard and feelings for all those passengers that he has messed around.
How about the TRUTH and an APOLOGY for mis-leading so many people???
C Town to Plett - FAILED
Joberg to Kimberley - FAILED
C Town via Durban/Joberg to Kruger International - NEVER GOT AIRBORNE
and now we have him trying to fly to London!!
My heart goes out to those people who were led to believe that this airline would fly and booked tickets. Those that know Civair know that it will NEVER get going and with all the negative publicity at the moment, does he really expect to get this route operating? TO those families that were hoping for a re-union over Xmas I feel for you - something you have really looked forward to will never happen now. I was asked by about 30 people, via family or friends, etc if this attempt at an airline was worth booking on and I managed to convince them not to book there. Luckily for them!
Does he really think that he is now going to get this up and running. One looks at his office - a worn out timber shack at the airport and one had to wonder what he was trying to do.
I think this could be a good one for the Scorpions.
All that he has so far succeeded in doing is giving SA aviation a bad name and added to the list of fly-by-night operators that hoped to hit the land of milk and honey, with scant disregard and feelings for all those passengers that he has messed around.
How about the TRUTH and an APOLOGY for mis-leading so many people???
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Civair flights cancelled
Richard Holmes, Travel Editor
Posted Thu, 02 Dec 2004
Civair, the low-cost airline that was due to begin flights from South Africa to the United Kingdom on December 4, has cancelled all flights until further notice, leaving hundreds of passengers in the lurch as the peak holiday season gets underway.
The airline has called it "a delay beyond our control," but the reasons for the postponement are believed to revolve around financing and the leasing of an aircraft.
Civair CEO, Andy Cluver, told travel industry publication Travel News Now that he could not "give a date or make promises" on when the service would get off the ground.
Civair had planned to fly three times per week from Durban and Cape Town to London Stansted, with one-way fares starting at R1999. The original launch date of October 30 was postponed to this Saturday, December 4, before the latest announcement cancelling all flights indefinitely.
Following the messy collapse of airlines like SunAir and MaidenAir, which left many passengers and travel agents out of pocket, all monies paid to Civair were kept in a Passenger Protection Trust Account held by a firm of Cape Town-based auditors.
Civair has assured all passengers booked on flights that they will receive a full refund. For more information passengers should contact the airline on [email protected] or their call centre on 0860 248 247, although when iafrica.com tried to call the phone rang repeatedly without being anwered.
Richard Holmes, Travel Editor
Posted Thu, 02 Dec 2004
Civair, the low-cost airline that was due to begin flights from South Africa to the United Kingdom on December 4, has cancelled all flights until further notice, leaving hundreds of passengers in the lurch as the peak holiday season gets underway.
The airline has called it "a delay beyond our control," but the reasons for the postponement are believed to revolve around financing and the leasing of an aircraft.
Civair CEO, Andy Cluver, told travel industry publication Travel News Now that he could not "give a date or make promises" on when the service would get off the ground.
Civair had planned to fly three times per week from Durban and Cape Town to London Stansted, with one-way fares starting at R1999. The original launch date of October 30 was postponed to this Saturday, December 4, before the latest announcement cancelling all flights indefinitely.
Following the messy collapse of airlines like SunAir and MaidenAir, which left many passengers and travel agents out of pocket, all monies paid to Civair were kept in a Passenger Protection Trust Account held by a firm of Cape Town-based auditors.
Civair has assured all passengers booked on flights that they will receive a full refund. For more information passengers should contact the airline on [email protected] or their call centre on 0860 248 247, although when iafrica.com tried to call the phone rang repeatedly without being anwered.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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It's not really about the money! For most of the pax, it's about the fact that they can't get home for Christmas or can't go on holiday.
Does the Passenger Protection Trust Account also find them a flight for the same price on BA, SAA, Virgin, KLM or Lufthansa?
No!
One of ya best Civair, one of ya best!!!
Does the Passenger Protection Trust Account also find them a flight for the same price on BA, SAA, Virgin, KLM or Lufthansa?
No!
One of ya best Civair, one of ya best!!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Civair scam - let everyone know
This is an email which has been circulating recently...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hi there everyone
I thought I'd write this email before someone else is subjected to this experience!
I'm sure you've all heard of Civair - the low cost airline that is supposed to be offering cheap flights between the UK and SA. They've been advertising for a while now, and their website is all set up (www.civair.com) Yes that's right. If you log on now you can book flights, pay and be under the illusion that you're actually going to fly somewhere.
This is not the case.
On Tues pm I called my sister (due to depart on 4 Dec with Civair to Durban) in much excitement to find out how her packing was going and generally get more excited about the thought of being together for Christmas. Her tone told me that something was wrong. Apparently she and her partner had just received an email! from Civair vaguely explaining that they would not be flying on the 4th - all flights were moved out to the 18 Dec...and even this date they could not confirm would not be moved out later! Never mind that this was a group email sent to all the 'passengers' - there was little in the way of explanation about why the dates had changed and no apology!
So with much anger, frustration and disappointment I decided to
investigate a little further.
I called the telephone no's on the website - which were permanently engaged (someone obviously turned the phones off) Then I sent a fax and wrote emails.
Having not had any response, I drove out to the airport to try and
locate their 'offices' for myself. After much confusion, they do not have an office! Although the tourist information desk, ACSA, and airport staff are under the impression that they are located somewhere...they just can't tell me where. Then I hear that their desk will be set up on the 18 Dec..yeah right.
I manage to find out that Civair actually is a charter company who
organise helicopter flights, and they have a base out in the hangers about 5 kms from the airport. I manage to locate them and walk into the offices. Three staff members are sitting at their desks (one is hiding behind an office door) no one can answer my questions and no one offers one word of apology.
The worst of it, is when questioned "Do you have a plane to fly" - they are "unable to comment" and whether the flights will actually take place on the 18th "They cannot guarantee this".
So the only thing to do is get a a refund, which will take a 'while' to come through...whatever that means. And then they take off a merchants commission? So you dont even get your full refund!
I've contacted the Argus (they ran a story on this on 30/11), iafrica.com, Carte Blanche and today will contact 3rd Degree and Special Assignment.
I'm so tired of South Africans and potential visitors to this country being subjected to this kind of bull****. Enough with the quick-money-making schemes that are corrupt and cause so many people so much unhappiness.
I'm tired of being ripped off and seeing others experience the same thing.
After doing some internet research on Civair and Andy Cluver their CEO - you can see that he's been pushing this new airline for about a year. This is blatant false advertising. It becomes apparent on certain web pages that the negotiations for Civair to purchase the Boeing have not been completed.
How can they be taking people's money without a bloody plane to fly!
Please forward this to everyone you know, this company and their
website needs to be shut down."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: IS THIS A JOKE???
Cluver said on Wednesday: "So many people are phoning that we cannot answer our phones. And our e-mail is down."
He asked people to communicate with Civair by
emailing [email protected]. The telephone number is 021 934 4462.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hi there everyone
I thought I'd write this email before someone else is subjected to this experience!
I'm sure you've all heard of Civair - the low cost airline that is supposed to be offering cheap flights between the UK and SA. They've been advertising for a while now, and their website is all set up (www.civair.com) Yes that's right. If you log on now you can book flights, pay and be under the illusion that you're actually going to fly somewhere.
This is not the case.
On Tues pm I called my sister (due to depart on 4 Dec with Civair to Durban) in much excitement to find out how her packing was going and generally get more excited about the thought of being together for Christmas. Her tone told me that something was wrong. Apparently she and her partner had just received an email! from Civair vaguely explaining that they would not be flying on the 4th - all flights were moved out to the 18 Dec...and even this date they could not confirm would not be moved out later! Never mind that this was a group email sent to all the 'passengers' - there was little in the way of explanation about why the dates had changed and no apology!
So with much anger, frustration and disappointment I decided to
investigate a little further.
I called the telephone no's on the website - which were permanently engaged (someone obviously turned the phones off) Then I sent a fax and wrote emails.
Having not had any response, I drove out to the airport to try and
locate their 'offices' for myself. After much confusion, they do not have an office! Although the tourist information desk, ACSA, and airport staff are under the impression that they are located somewhere...they just can't tell me where. Then I hear that their desk will be set up on the 18 Dec..yeah right.
I manage to find out that Civair actually is a charter company who
organise helicopter flights, and they have a base out in the hangers about 5 kms from the airport. I manage to locate them and walk into the offices. Three staff members are sitting at their desks (one is hiding behind an office door) no one can answer my questions and no one offers one word of apology.
The worst of it, is when questioned "Do you have a plane to fly" - they are "unable to comment" and whether the flights will actually take place on the 18th "They cannot guarantee this".
So the only thing to do is get a a refund, which will take a 'while' to come through...whatever that means. And then they take off a merchants commission? So you dont even get your full refund!
I've contacted the Argus (they ran a story on this on 30/11), iafrica.com, Carte Blanche and today will contact 3rd Degree and Special Assignment.
I'm so tired of South Africans and potential visitors to this country being subjected to this kind of bull****. Enough with the quick-money-making schemes that are corrupt and cause so many people so much unhappiness.
I'm tired of being ripped off and seeing others experience the same thing.
After doing some internet research on Civair and Andy Cluver their CEO - you can see that he's been pushing this new airline for about a year. This is blatant false advertising. It becomes apparent on certain web pages that the negotiations for Civair to purchase the Boeing have not been completed.
How can they be taking people's money without a bloody plane to fly!
Please forward this to everyone you know, this company and their
website needs to be shut down."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: IS THIS A JOKE???
Cluver said on Wednesday: "So many people are phoning that we cannot answer our phones. And our e-mail is down."
He asked people to communicate with Civair by
emailing [email protected]. The telephone number is 021 934 4462.
Join Date: May 2002
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I checked the Civair website today, expecting to see some sort of announcement from Civair and, who knows, maybe even an apology of some sort?
Instead, the opening page consists of a picture of two padlocks and a key, wtih the blunt message "THE STORE IS CLOSED".
Says a lot to me about the cavalier attitude that has been displayed by Civair and its management in recent weeks.
A recent statement said that Civair could not be expected to refund taxes, credit card commissions or exchange rate losses. I'm no lawyer, but my guess is they are under a legal obligation to do so. Furthermore, they should pay interest on the money they've been holding. As it happens, all fares were quoted in Rands, so exchange rate losses don't come into it. However, it might be that some overseas pax could recover a few extra pounds and they deserve to.
There needs to be a change in the law to prevent this sort of shambolic situation arising in the future.
Instead, the opening page consists of a picture of two padlocks and a key, wtih the blunt message "THE STORE IS CLOSED".
Says a lot to me about the cavalier attitude that has been displayed by Civair and its management in recent weeks.
A recent statement said that Civair could not be expected to refund taxes, credit card commissions or exchange rate losses. I'm no lawyer, but my guess is they are under a legal obligation to do so. Furthermore, they should pay interest on the money they've been holding. As it happens, all fares were quoted in Rands, so exchange rate losses don't come into it. However, it might be that some overseas pax could recover a few extra pounds and they deserve to.
There needs to be a change in the law to prevent this sort of shambolic situation arising in the future.
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Teignmouth...... this is what I get at www.civair.com..... basically it is the same twaddle that was pattered out in his emails to the punters:
Dear Valued Customer
We deeply regret to advise that due to investor withdrawal, Civair has been forced to cancel all its intended flights until further notice.
All purchased tickets will be refunded as quickly as possible. Certain information (see below) is required from you by Civair's auditors (trustees of the trust account holding your money) in order for them to process the refunding transactions with all possible speed and accuracy. The auditors do advise, however, that both due to the volume of the refunds to be transacted and due to the fact that exchange control approval is required for payments to be made outside South Africa, some weeks may elapse before the refunded money is received. Providing us with South African bank account details will speed up the refund process considerably. PLEASE NOTE: any request for payment into an account other than the account from which the payment was originally made, must be accompanied by written authorisation to pay the refund money into the alternate account.
Refunding will take place in accordance with the terms and conditions of sale as recorded on the website, and accepted by the person making the reservation.
INFORMATION REQUIRED BY THE AUDITORS IN ORDER TO PROCESS THE REFUND:
1. Passenger's full name and surname, the order number and the PNR number.
2. A current e-mail address.
2. Date(s) of flight.
3. Credit card/ bank account number and details.
4. BANK SORT CODES (for ALL foreign accounts including Visa and Master cards).
5. Full name and physical address of the bank, and the relevant branch.
6. Physical address of the passenger or sponsor who is the holder of the account
7. A COPY OF THE BANK STATEMENT REFLECTING THE PAYMENT MADE TO CIVAIR (required for authorisation of the refund).
PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT NO REFUNDS WILL BE ACTIONED UNLESS ALL THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS FURNISHED
Please FAX the above to us at +27 21 934 4462. Please do not use the info@civair e-mail address as it is inundated with queries.
So as to negate the possibility of double handling (and so delay procedures), please send your details by fax ONLY ONCE. We will confirm receipt via e-mail.
We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused.
Yours faithfully
Andy Cluver
C.E.O
Dear Valued Customer
We deeply regret to advise that due to investor withdrawal, Civair has been forced to cancel all its intended flights until further notice.
All purchased tickets will be refunded as quickly as possible. Certain information (see below) is required from you by Civair's auditors (trustees of the trust account holding your money) in order for them to process the refunding transactions with all possible speed and accuracy. The auditors do advise, however, that both due to the volume of the refunds to be transacted and due to the fact that exchange control approval is required for payments to be made outside South Africa, some weeks may elapse before the refunded money is received. Providing us with South African bank account details will speed up the refund process considerably. PLEASE NOTE: any request for payment into an account other than the account from which the payment was originally made, must be accompanied by written authorisation to pay the refund money into the alternate account.
Refunding will take place in accordance with the terms and conditions of sale as recorded on the website, and accepted by the person making the reservation.
INFORMATION REQUIRED BY THE AUDITORS IN ORDER TO PROCESS THE REFUND:
1. Passenger's full name and surname, the order number and the PNR number.
2. A current e-mail address.
2. Date(s) of flight.
3. Credit card/ bank account number and details.
4. BANK SORT CODES (for ALL foreign accounts including Visa and Master cards).
5. Full name and physical address of the bank, and the relevant branch.
6. Physical address of the passenger or sponsor who is the holder of the account
7. A COPY OF THE BANK STATEMENT REFLECTING THE PAYMENT MADE TO CIVAIR (required for authorisation of the refund).
PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT NO REFUNDS WILL BE ACTIONED UNLESS ALL THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS FURNISHED
Please FAX the above to us at +27 21 934 4462. Please do not use the info@civair e-mail address as it is inundated with queries.
So as to negate the possibility of double handling (and so delay procedures), please send your details by fax ONLY ONCE. We will confirm receipt via e-mail.
We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused.
Yours faithfully
Andy Cluver
C.E.O
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"Ol Andy" really did make a fool of himself this time. The ego got a bit bigger than the IQ, and he thought that he could pull it off with no money. Co'mon Andy, you surely did'nt think it was gonna work for you, did you???? with NO loot????
"Tis also amazing how many companies rely on Black Empowerment "investors, who deals big, but their deals just never seems to get off the ground.
Viva BEE, viva SA and viva "ol Andy". Better luck next time.
"Tis also amazing how many companies rely on Black Empowerment "investors, who deals big, but their deals just never seems to get off the ground.
Viva BEE, viva SA and viva "ol Andy". Better luck next time.
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Teignmouth,
The law(s) is (are) there...!!! (International Air Services Act No 60 of 1993, as amended, with Regulations, 1994 - and, internationally speaking, with the above law making several references to the Air Services Licensing Act No 115 of 1990, with Regulations, 1991, as amended). There are two licensing Councils (international and domestic) appointed by the NDoT to look after these matters.
Maybe there needs to be the couarge as well as the will to enforce the law, across the board, at grassroots level as well. Laws are easy to make, debate and promulgate...we all know that!!! But enforcement seems to be all too difficult.
Remember Phoenix Airways ('94 -'95)...pre-sold tickets...consumers lost out.
I really hope the responsible enforcement authorities do something about THIS one!
There needs to be a change in the law to prevent this sort of shambolic situation arising in the future.
Maybe there needs to be the couarge as well as the will to enforce the law, across the board, at grassroots level as well. Laws are easy to make, debate and promulgate...we all know that!!! But enforcement seems to be all too difficult.
Remember Phoenix Airways ('94 -'95)...pre-sold tickets...consumers lost out.
I really hope the responsible enforcement authorities do something about THIS one!
Last edited by BAKELA; 9th Dec 2004 at 01:47.
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From Moneyweb:
Civair – the Cape Town-based low-cost airline that failed to commence services on 3 December and left hundreds of passengers to make other travel arrangements – has been summoned to appear before the department of transport’s International Air Services Council (IASC) on 26 January 2005.
The hearing is open to the public and will be held at the department of transport’s premises in Pretoria.
The airline – a shoot-off of a charter company based in Cape Town – was initially supposed to start flying from London Stansted to Cape Town and Durban on 30 October this year, a date that was postponed to 3 December and also failed to materialise.
According to the department of transport’s web site, the IASC is a statutory body established in terms of the International Air Services Act 1993 to adjudicate applications for the operation of international air services by South African residents. Wrenelle Stander, the council’s chairperson and director-general of transport, says that Civair met all the council’s requirements when it applied for a licence in September 2003: “As part of
the process of granting a license to operate a new scheduled passenger airline, the council requires that potential operators submit documentation that includes proof of ownership or access to a suitable, airworthy aircraft. Civair presented documentation to the IASC and was granted a license to operate a service between South Africa and the United Kingdom in September 2003.”
She says that at the council’s December meeting, it was informed that Civair had failed to begin operating its scheduled services as anticipated: “At this stage, Civair also informed us that it had suspended services due to the unavailability of an aircraft,” she says.
She says that the council approached chartered accounting firm Alliott Andersen Nell with regard to the status of the refunding of passengers in line with the consumer protection guarantee submitted to council by Civair:
“The council was informed by Alliott Andersen Nell Inc that the refund process was underway, and it was anticipated that this process would be completed by mid-December 2004.”
However, the initial figure of 900 passengers affected given by Civair CEO Andy Cluver is much higher. In a letter sent to the department of transport on 2 December and made available to Moneyweb, the firm’s Kobus Nell wrote
“approximately 3292 tickets were sold, of which 202 were refunded to date, leaving 3090 tickets to be refunded”.
Nell wrote that South African and UK residents would receive the full amount of their ticket less 3,5% merchant’s commission charged by the banks on the credit card transaction. However, the amount paid to UK residents may vary from their paid amount because of exchange rates.
Nell also wrote that the bank charge per ticket refund locally would be R23,94 and to the UK R203,94. “The interest that we have earned on the deposits are utilised to pay for these bank charges,” he wrote.
The hearing is open to the public and will be held at the department of transport’s premises in Pretoria.
The airline – a shoot-off of a charter company based in Cape Town – was initially supposed to start flying from London Stansted to Cape Town and Durban on 30 October this year, a date that was postponed to 3 December and also failed to materialise.
According to the department of transport’s web site, the IASC is a statutory body established in terms of the International Air Services Act 1993 to adjudicate applications for the operation of international air services by South African residents. Wrenelle Stander, the council’s chairperson and director-general of transport, says that Civair met all the council’s requirements when it applied for a licence in September 2003: “As part of
the process of granting a license to operate a new scheduled passenger airline, the council requires that potential operators submit documentation that includes proof of ownership or access to a suitable, airworthy aircraft. Civair presented documentation to the IASC and was granted a license to operate a service between South Africa and the United Kingdom in September 2003.”
She says that at the council’s December meeting, it was informed that Civair had failed to begin operating its scheduled services as anticipated: “At this stage, Civair also informed us that it had suspended services due to the unavailability of an aircraft,” she says.
She says that the council approached chartered accounting firm Alliott Andersen Nell with regard to the status of the refunding of passengers in line with the consumer protection guarantee submitted to council by Civair:
“The council was informed by Alliott Andersen Nell Inc that the refund process was underway, and it was anticipated that this process would be completed by mid-December 2004.”
However, the initial figure of 900 passengers affected given by Civair CEO Andy Cluver is much higher. In a letter sent to the department of transport on 2 December and made available to Moneyweb, the firm’s Kobus Nell wrote
“approximately 3292 tickets were sold, of which 202 were refunded to date, leaving 3090 tickets to be refunded”.
Nell wrote that South African and UK residents would receive the full amount of their ticket less 3,5% merchant’s commission charged by the banks on the credit card transaction. However, the amount paid to UK residents may vary from their paid amount because of exchange rates.
Nell also wrote that the bank charge per ticket refund locally would be R23,94 and to the UK R203,94. “The interest that we have earned on the deposits are utilised to pay for these bank charges,” he wrote.
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They hadn't signed up to land at STN?
December 05, 2004
The Sunday Times
Your flight is leaving, er, never
Consumer watchdogs are calling for websites to be better policed after an airline was allowed to sell nonexistent cheap flights to South Africa.
Hundreds of travellers have been left stranded after booking tickets with the South Africa-based Civair Airways for flights between Stansted and Cape Town. Last week, having already delayed its proposed October launch twice, the carrier announced that it would postpone the start date indefinitely, citing funding problems.
The airline had been promoting the flights for as little as £500 over the internet since May, assuring prospective web customers: “After loads of blood, sweat and tears, Civair Airways was granted an international air service licence to operate five return flights per week between Cape Town and Durban and London Stansted.” In fact, it did not have a permit to fly into the UK from the Department of Transport, and although it had been in negotiations with Stansted, no deal had been agreed.
Stansted says: “We knew that they were advertising fares. We were concerned, but we have no jurisdiction over what a company puts on its website. It was fairly confident of launching in December, but there was no official sign-up, so we didn’t show the flights on our online schedule.”
About 900 ticketholders have been affected. Several have contacted The Sunday Times to complain. C Chapman e-mailed to say: “Civair cancelled our flights for October at the last minute, and has deducted £170 from our refund for currency and credit-card charges. The company ruined our holiday.”
K Keyser of London, who had been due to fly out on December 18, says: “There are many angry people out there who have been let down. Even if the company refunds us, the price of tickets to fly to South Africa for Christmas is now verging on the ridiculous. I suppose the lesson is: if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.”
Civair says: “We have the paperwork to prove we were fully licensed, but a financier backed out at the last minute. We are returning all the money we hold, but cannot return fees we have paid to credit cards or losses on exchange rates.”
The Air Transport Users Council (020 7240 6061, www.auc.org.uk), which campaigns for air passengers’ rights, said: “There should be legislation to prevent companies from advertising flights unless they have the necessary governmental approval to proceed.”
The Sunday Times
Your flight is leaving, er, never
Consumer watchdogs are calling for websites to be better policed after an airline was allowed to sell nonexistent cheap flights to South Africa.
Hundreds of travellers have been left stranded after booking tickets with the South Africa-based Civair Airways for flights between Stansted and Cape Town. Last week, having already delayed its proposed October launch twice, the carrier announced that it would postpone the start date indefinitely, citing funding problems.
The airline had been promoting the flights for as little as £500 over the internet since May, assuring prospective web customers: “After loads of blood, sweat and tears, Civair Airways was granted an international air service licence to operate five return flights per week between Cape Town and Durban and London Stansted.” In fact, it did not have a permit to fly into the UK from the Department of Transport, and although it had been in negotiations with Stansted, no deal had been agreed.
Stansted says: “We knew that they were advertising fares. We were concerned, but we have no jurisdiction over what a company puts on its website. It was fairly confident of launching in December, but there was no official sign-up, so we didn’t show the flights on our online schedule.”
About 900 ticketholders have been affected. Several have contacted The Sunday Times to complain. C Chapman e-mailed to say: “Civair cancelled our flights for October at the last minute, and has deducted £170 from our refund for currency and credit-card charges. The company ruined our holiday.”
K Keyser of London, who had been due to fly out on December 18, says: “There are many angry people out there who have been let down. Even if the company refunds us, the price of tickets to fly to South Africa for Christmas is now verging on the ridiculous. I suppose the lesson is: if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.”
Civair says: “We have the paperwork to prove we were fully licensed, but a financier backed out at the last minute. We are returning all the money we hold, but cannot return fees we have paid to credit cards or losses on exchange rates.”
The Air Transport Users Council (020 7240 6061, www.auc.org.uk), which campaigns for air passengers’ rights, said: “There should be legislation to prevent companies from advertising flights unless they have the necessary governmental approval to proceed.”
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Civair says: “... We are returning all the money we hold, but cannot return fees we have paid to credit cards or losses on exchange rates.”
If the tickets are being refunded through no fault of the customer, then a full refund should be just that ... a full refund. All the bank charges, commisions paid, etc, by the company are taken above the line on the Income Statement and can thus be claimed as a tax deduction (expense incurred on the normal course of business) ... err, I think I see the problem
Besides, I've purchased items from retail stores on my credit card, for which the retail store paid the bank a commision. I've then returned the item and the store refunded the full purchase price, they didn't deduct commissions, etc.
I can understand the forex loss issue (ticket priced in rands, therefore refund in rands), but the bank commision?
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So much for reporting!
For me the laugh of the day is a local SA talk radio station in JNB saying that a UK based airline (Civair) folded and left 5000 UK cricket supporters stranded in the UK. I have no doubt that 5000 of the "Army" is stranded but... "UK based"?
Maybe the news staff (and management) at this station need to shape up. Just a thought...I've also recently heard from them that Bronkhorstspruit (Dronkwordspruit for those in the know about the dam) is north of Pretoria (or should that be Tswane?) instead of due east!!!
The last time I had a laugh like this was when their station manager (nogal) reported on DEXSA 2002 (I think it was still DEXSA then?) at Kloof (after the two unfortunate Harvard prangs) that the pilot did not use his "ejaculation" seat.
Edited by Bakela for after effects of Dronkwordspruit that became Naboomspruit by mistake in the original post.
Maybe the news staff (and management) at this station need to shape up. Just a thought...I've also recently heard from them that Bronkhorstspruit (Dronkwordspruit for those in the know about the dam) is north of Pretoria (or should that be Tswane?) instead of due east!!!
The last time I had a laugh like this was when their station manager (nogal) reported on DEXSA 2002 (I think it was still DEXSA then?) at Kloof (after the two unfortunate Harvard prangs) that the pilot did not use his "ejaculation" seat.
Edited by Bakela for after effects of Dronkwordspruit that became Naboomspruit by mistake in the original post.
Last edited by BAKELA; 11th Dec 2004 at 02:43.
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The last time I had a laugh like this was when their station manager (nogal) reported on DEXSA 2002 (I think it was still DEXSA then?) at Kloof (after the two unfortunate Harvard prangs) that the pilot did not use his "ejaculation" seat.
But then, the Harvard does do it for me too
