ZIMbobWE seizes US cargo Plane and Mercenaries
Just had South African Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma on BBC's "Breakfast with Frost."
What a piece of work she is,
"SA won't impose sanctions because neither the farmers or the MDC have asked for them."
"The Zimbabwe people will have their say at the next elections"........yeh right
What a piece of work she is,
"SA won't impose sanctions because neither the farmers or the MDC have asked for them."
"The Zimbabwe people will have their say at the next elections"........yeh right
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SA could still charge alleged mercenaries
SA could still charge alleged mercenaries
IOL: June 15 2004
By Angela Quintal
South Africa's alleged mercenaries, who could face trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea for an alleged coup plot, have not yet escaped prosecution at home for contravening domestic law.
So says Justice Minister Brigitte Mabandla, who has also distanced the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) from a statement reportedly made by one of its deputy directors, Jan Henning, that the suspected mercenaries would not receive a fair trial in Equatorial Guinea.
She was replying in writing to a question from Democratic Alliance MP Douglas Gibson about what criteria were used to allow South African citizens to stand trial in the two countries and not under South Africa's own Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act.
Gibson also asked whether any consideration was given to the possibility that the group could be given the death penalty in both countries.
No criteria had been used as no decision had yet been taken by the NPA, Mabandla said.
"The matter regarding the activities of the mercenaries in South Africa is also still under investigation by the National Director of Public Prosecutions," she said.
On Henning's reported comment, she said that if such a view was expressed, "it may have been given in a personal capacity and does not reflect the view or policy of the NPA".
IOL: June 15 2004
By Angela Quintal
South Africa's alleged mercenaries, who could face trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea for an alleged coup plot, have not yet escaped prosecution at home for contravening domestic law.
So says Justice Minister Brigitte Mabandla, who has also distanced the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) from a statement reportedly made by one of its deputy directors, Jan Henning, that the suspected mercenaries would not receive a fair trial in Equatorial Guinea.
She was replying in writing to a question from Democratic Alliance MP Douglas Gibson about what criteria were used to allow South African citizens to stand trial in the two countries and not under South Africa's own Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act.
Gibson also asked whether any consideration was given to the possibility that the group could be given the death penalty in both countries.
No criteria had been used as no decision had yet been taken by the NPA, Mabandla said.
"The matter regarding the activities of the mercenaries in South Africa is also still under investigation by the National Director of Public Prosecutions," she said.
On Henning's reported comment, she said that if such a view was expressed, "it may have been given in a personal capacity and does not reflect the view or policy of the NPA".
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Having spent a night in the holding cells, in Vic Falls, I can't even begin to imagine what these guys must be going through.
The joys of living in Africa.
So much for George Bush and his war against terrorists.
P
rick.
The joys of living in Africa.
So much for George Bush and his war against terrorists.
P
rick.
Gatvol
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Maun Baboon writes:"So much for George Bush and his war against terrorists.
P rick."
Whoa good buddy. You guys gave the place away and now its GWBs fault?? I Don theeenk so.
P rick."
Whoa good buddy. You guys gave the place away and now its GWBs fault?? I Don theeenk so.
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Maun Baboon, bit harsh bro. It might not be long that even SA follows the rest of Southern Africa and has a hand out looking for foreign aid from the States and the like. I doubt that if I where American, I would give a stuff about what goes on down here….the headache Southern Africa is going to cause, just isn’t gona be worth the bit of oil or minerals they might get their hands on.
Bert
I think US sanctions had a lot more to do with it, than "us" giving it away??????? If Bush practised what he preaches, then he should have done something about Zimbabwe. Now if only Zimbabwe had oil............
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Now back in SA suffering Jet lag. I can say a word or two. YES Im sure a lot of what the U.S. does has to do with OIL. OK, so what. A lot of what SA does, and most folks dont know, has to do with Diamonds. So what.
U.S. Sanctions. Yes they were there, but if memory serves me, the real South Africans got their stuff together and were doing admirably on their own. I take my hat of to them. U.S. sanctions being a problem only says to me that someone was dependant on the U.S., Dont be,I live there and things change daily.
U.S. Sanctions. Yes they were there, but if memory serves me, the real South Africans got their stuff together and were doing admirably on their own. I take my hat of to them. U.S. sanctions being a problem only says to me that someone was dependant on the U.S., Dont be,I live there and things change daily.
I was actually refering to Rhodesia. Maybe SA does things for diamonds, but SA has not proclaimed itself as the worlds policeman. No country can last indefinitely when faced with economic sanctions. America(and others) saw fit to follow the "morale" high ground in Rhodesia by imposing sanctions. Now the country is a mess partly due to what the outside world imposed on them, and yet the silence is deafening! The reason being that Zimbabwe is not part of America's global web of economic and political relationships. It has nothing to do with Bush's BS about "fighting the worlds tyrants". What matters is the apportionment of political power in the States. It suited them to get involved before, because of Rev Jesse Jackson and the "black" vote in the USA. Now they are equally happy for him to be silenced by the mess in Africa. Rhodesia stood by the Western Powers during there time of need, but in the end they where betrayed in the worst manner. 
Bert
One knows that the world has lost the plot, when it is deemed acceptable for a white person, born and bred in Zimbabwe to be told that he does not belong there and should return England.(Irrespective of whether he is of Dutch or Portuguese ancestry.)
Yet, just try to tell a black person born and bred in Liverpool, that he should return to Africa were he belonged !? You would either be seen as being totally mad or arrested for racism !?
Anyway we stray from the topic............but at least we are keeping it at the top!
Yet, just try to tell a black person born and bred in Liverpool, that he should return to Africa were he belonged !? You would either be seen as being totally mad or arrested for racism !?
Anyway we stray from the topic............but at least we are keeping it at the top!
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Claw, you have it right on....... However this site is becoming similar to Zimbabwe. If you dont post what they want to hear your risk the censors button.......
I was slammed recently for posting a site and was told by the Mod that basically Iraq has FA to do with Africa. I see now a thread on Iraq. Maybe it does not fit the agenda.
Anyway, I saw those guys in Zim on the tube today. They dont look to good. Sure would like to see the "real ' folks behind there contract have a sit down with Uncle Bob and see how much he wants to make this go away. Im sure in the end it will all be about money. The greedy
I was slammed recently for posting a site and was told by the Mod that basically Iraq has FA to do with Africa. I see now a thread on Iraq. Maybe it does not fit the agenda.
Anyway, I saw those guys in Zim on the tube today. They dont look to good. Sure would like to see the "real ' folks behind there contract have a sit down with Uncle Bob and see how much he wants to make this go away. Im sure in the end it will all be about money. The greedy
Last edited by Jetdriver; 21st Jun 2004 at 18:48.
Seems that Jetdriver is on the "trigger" 
Heard from the Harare3, they seem to think that SA is working on a prisoner transfer treaty. I really hope that this is true, but as they say, "Hope is a killer in this place!"
Heard from the Harare3, they seem to think that SA is working on a prisoner transfer treaty. I really hope that this is true, but as they say, "Hope is a killer in this place!"
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Claw. Right as rain. Maybe I should submit my postings direct to the Mods and see what comes out the other end. I thought I put a censor logo in the word leaving only the first and last letter. Hope Im right, anyway I see even the two letters are gone. Guess maybe you could have figured out what I said from that. if your mind is in the gutter.........ha ha
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To save you any further hand wringing, the only edit made was to the expletive. Using the censored symbol is fine but by putting letters either side rather negates the purpose. Sometimes it gets overlooked and sometimes it doesn't. When it is overlooked then more often than not it simply results in an invitation to mutual name calling which either causes more unnecessary edits, the closure of a topic or occaisionally more restrictive action.
Given the intellect on the forum generally and the high levels of wit and wisdom, it is interesting to note that the use of expletives is fairly minimal. I appreciate that there are occaisions when only a good anglo saxon curse may seem appropriate, however the use of asterisks or the censored symbol should suffice without further embelishment.
Given the intellect on the forum generally and the high levels of wit and wisdom, it is interesting to note that the use of expletives is fairly minimal. I appreciate that there are occaisions when only a good anglo saxon curse may seem appropriate, however the use of asterisks or the censored symbol should suffice without further embelishment.
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From News24
Ngoepe slammed for 'mistakes'
23/06/2004 08:10 - (SA)
Pretoria - Judge-president Bernard Ngoepe made no less than 22 legal, factual and evidence-related mistakes in the ruling in which he denied the application of 70 South Africans being held in Zimbabwe, against the government.
Court documents in which the 70 are applying to the Constitutional Court for permission to appeal against Ngoepe's ruling, mention the mistakes.
The men are being held on suspicion that they are mercenaries who were on their way to Equatorial Guinea where they planned to overthrow the government of President Obiang Ngueso in a military coup.
They want the South African government to intervene to prevent their extradition to Equatorial Guinea on the grounds that they would not receive a fair trial in a foreign county.
Ngoepe was accused of, among other things, not giving enough weight to the supremacy of the constitution. He was also criticised for finding that the constitution was not applicable across the country's borders.
He said there was not enough evidence that the men would in fact not receive a fair trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea ("despite eight reports to the contrary").
He also said they had given up their constitutional rights to dignity, life, freedom and security when they crossed the border.
Alwyn Griebenow, the men's lawyer, said in a sworn statement accompanying the documents that Ngoepe had "overwhelming evidence" available that showed that they would not receive a fair trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea.
He said: "The 70 men's constitutional right to life is under threat."
The government - including the ministers of justice, safety and security, intelligence, home affairs and foreign affairs, as well as the national prosecuting authority have to react to the documents before Chief Justice Arthur Chaskalson will decide whether to allow the appeal.
Ngoepe slammed for 'mistakes'
23/06/2004 08:10 - (SA)
Pretoria - Judge-president Bernard Ngoepe made no less than 22 legal, factual and evidence-related mistakes in the ruling in which he denied the application of 70 South Africans being held in Zimbabwe, against the government.
Court documents in which the 70 are applying to the Constitutional Court for permission to appeal against Ngoepe's ruling, mention the mistakes.
The men are being held on suspicion that they are mercenaries who were on their way to Equatorial Guinea where they planned to overthrow the government of President Obiang Ngueso in a military coup.
They want the South African government to intervene to prevent their extradition to Equatorial Guinea on the grounds that they would not receive a fair trial in a foreign county.
Ngoepe was accused of, among other things, not giving enough weight to the supremacy of the constitution. He was also criticised for finding that the constitution was not applicable across the country's borders.
He said there was not enough evidence that the men would in fact not receive a fair trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea ("despite eight reports to the contrary").
He also said they had given up their constitutional rights to dignity, life, freedom and security when they crossed the border.
Alwyn Griebenow, the men's lawyer, said in a sworn statement accompanying the documents that Ngoepe had "overwhelming evidence" available that showed that they would not receive a fair trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea.
He said: "The 70 men's constitutional right to life is under threat."
The government - including the ministers of justice, safety and security, intelligence, home affairs and foreign affairs, as well as the national prosecuting authority have to react to the documents before Chief Justice Arthur Chaskalson will decide whether to allow the appeal.
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Zim 70 get July trial date
23/06/2004 11:36 - (SA)
Harare - Seventy suspected mercenaries arrested in Zimbabwe for allegedly plotting a coup in Equatorial Guinea will go on trial as of July 19, a magistrate announced on Wednesday.
"You come back to court on the 19th of July at nine in the morning for trial," said magistrate Mishrod Guvamombe.
The men were arrested at Harare International Airport more than two months ago when they allegedly landed to refuel and pick up military equipment.
Authorities believed they were on their way to join 15 suspected mercenaries - including eight South Africans - arrested in Equatorial Guinea for allegedly plotting to overthrow the west African country's leader, Teodoro Obiang Nguema.
The men claimed they were on their way to the Democratic Republic of Congo to perform mine security duties.
23/06/2004 11:36 - (SA)
Harare - Seventy suspected mercenaries arrested in Zimbabwe for allegedly plotting a coup in Equatorial Guinea will go on trial as of July 19, a magistrate announced on Wednesday.
"You come back to court on the 19th of July at nine in the morning for trial," said magistrate Mishrod Guvamombe.
The men were arrested at Harare International Airport more than two months ago when they allegedly landed to refuel and pick up military equipment.
Authorities believed they were on their way to join 15 suspected mercenaries - including eight South Africans - arrested in Equatorial Guinea for allegedly plotting to overthrow the west African country's leader, Teodoro Obiang Nguema.
The men claimed they were on their way to the Democratic Republic of Congo to perform mine security duties.
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May have been off the page, but not forgotten ...
------------------------------------
ConCourt 'special' for Zim 70
News24: 30/06/2004
Johannesburg - Chief Justice Arthur Chaskalson ordered a special sitting of the Constitutional Court on July 19 to hear the application of the 70 men being held in Zimbabwe as suspected mercenaries.
In the application for leave to appeal, the 70 men, who are being held on charges of planning a coup in Equatorial Guinea, are asking the South African government to intervene and have them return to the Republic.
A similar application to Pretoria High Court has been denied.
Judge Chaskalson's decision to convene the 11 judges of his court in the middle the recess was widely welcomed on Wednesday.
The attorney representing the 70, Alwyn Griebenow of Port Elizabeth, said, "I am in the clouds.
"I can assure everybody that we, as the legal team of these 70 men, will grab this opportunity with both hands because we are convinced that the men won't get a fair trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea.
Ministers file affidavits against hearing
"Fair and reasonable trials are the cornerstone of our Human Rights Charter's stipulations about court battles.
"Seen in the light of how my clients are treated in Zimbabwe and the fact that the other seven men in Equatorial Guinea have not even seen a court yet after four months, it's beyond me how anybody can argue that fair trials await the men."
Chaskalson's decision comes despite a strong plea in affidavits on behalf of the ministers of justice, safety and security, intelligence, home affairs, foreign affairs, the president and the national prosecuting authority that the 70's application to appeal should not be heard in the Constitutional Court.
Theresia Bezuidenhout, director of law enforcement in the justice department, said in a sworn statement: "Even if the issue the 70 men have brought up is of a constitutional nature, it's not important enough to demand the Constitutional Court's immediate and direct attention," .
Chaskalson has ordered the 70 men to submit their written appeal by July 7 and the ministers by July 13. Verbal appeal will be heard on July 19 and, if necessary, on July 20.
------------------------------------
ConCourt 'special' for Zim 70
News24: 30/06/2004
Johannesburg - Chief Justice Arthur Chaskalson ordered a special sitting of the Constitutional Court on July 19 to hear the application of the 70 men being held in Zimbabwe as suspected mercenaries.
In the application for leave to appeal, the 70 men, who are being held on charges of planning a coup in Equatorial Guinea, are asking the South African government to intervene and have them return to the Republic.
A similar application to Pretoria High Court has been denied.
Judge Chaskalson's decision to convene the 11 judges of his court in the middle the recess was widely welcomed on Wednesday.
The attorney representing the 70, Alwyn Griebenow of Port Elizabeth, said, "I am in the clouds.
"I can assure everybody that we, as the legal team of these 70 men, will grab this opportunity with both hands because we are convinced that the men won't get a fair trial in Zimbabwe or Equatorial Guinea.
Ministers file affidavits against hearing
"Fair and reasonable trials are the cornerstone of our Human Rights Charter's stipulations about court battles.
"Seen in the light of how my clients are treated in Zimbabwe and the fact that the other seven men in Equatorial Guinea have not even seen a court yet after four months, it's beyond me how anybody can argue that fair trials await the men."
Chaskalson's decision comes despite a strong plea in affidavits on behalf of the ministers of justice, safety and security, intelligence, home affairs, foreign affairs, the president and the national prosecuting authority that the 70's application to appeal should not be heard in the Constitutional Court.
Theresia Bezuidenhout, director of law enforcement in the justice department, said in a sworn statement: "Even if the issue the 70 men have brought up is of a constitutional nature, it's not important enough to demand the Constitutional Court's immediate and direct attention," .
Chaskalson has ordered the 70 men to submit their written appeal by July 7 and the ministers by July 13. Verbal appeal will be heard on July 19 and, if necessary, on July 20.
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BBC 27 July 2004
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3912051.stm
Harare 'mercenaries' plead guilty
The men have been held since March
Almost all the 70 mercenaries accused of plotting to overthrow the government of Equatorial Guinea have pleaded guilty in a Zimbabwe court.
The 67 South Africans admitted the lesser charges of breaking immigration and aviation laws at their much delayed trial in the capital, Harare.
All 70 are expected to face further security charges on Wednesday.
Their plane was impounded in March, when they picked up weapons bought from the Zimbabwe state arms supplier.
Three men, including former British SAS captain Simon Mann, the alleged leader of the group, did not face the immigration charges because they were already in Zimbabwe when the plane landed.
The start of the trial was twice delayed while the defendants reviewed the charges with their legal advisors.
Defence lawyer Jonathan Samkange said all 70 would plead not guilty to more serious charges of breaching security on Wednesday.
The group said they were going to the Democratic Republic of Congo to provide security for mining operations.
But the governments of South Africa, Zimbabwe and Equatorial Guinea believe they were heading to the small, oil-rich country to overthrow the government.
Razor wire
The BBC's Alastair Leithead in Johannesburg says there is much confusion surrounding the alleged coup plot and how the men came to be arrested.
E Guinea: Ripe for coup
Who are the detained men?
This is the first time they have faced formal charges, even if they are relatively minor compared to the gravity of the accusations, our correspondent says.
The trial is being held in a building inside a high-security prison surrounded by high concrete walls and razor wire.
The men, who have been held for four-and-a-half months with restricted access to lawyers and relatives, have complained about prison conditions.
Following their arrest in March, they had claimed they were tortured by Zimbabwean security agents.
The Zimbabwean government recently signed an extradition deal with Equatorial Guinea, where other South Africans are being held on suspicion of being the advanced party in the alleged plot.
The group's lawyers have appealed to the South African government to extradite them there instead, so they would not face a possible death penalty.
But South African state lawyers have opposed this legal request and the constitutional court is to deliver its decision.
Harare 'mercenaries' plead guilty
The men have been held since March
Almost all the 70 mercenaries accused of plotting to overthrow the government of Equatorial Guinea have pleaded guilty in a Zimbabwe court.
The 67 South Africans admitted the lesser charges of breaking immigration and aviation laws at their much delayed trial in the capital, Harare.
All 70 are expected to face further security charges on Wednesday.
Their plane was impounded in March, when they picked up weapons bought from the Zimbabwe state arms supplier.
Three men, including former British SAS captain Simon Mann, the alleged leader of the group, did not face the immigration charges because they were already in Zimbabwe when the plane landed.
The start of the trial was twice delayed while the defendants reviewed the charges with their legal advisors.
Defence lawyer Jonathan Samkange said all 70 would plead not guilty to more serious charges of breaching security on Wednesday.
The group said they were going to the Democratic Republic of Congo to provide security for mining operations.
But the governments of South Africa, Zimbabwe and Equatorial Guinea believe they were heading to the small, oil-rich country to overthrow the government.
Razor wire
The BBC's Alastair Leithead in Johannesburg says there is much confusion surrounding the alleged coup plot and how the men came to be arrested.
E Guinea: Ripe for coup
Who are the detained men?
This is the first time they have faced formal charges, even if they are relatively minor compared to the gravity of the accusations, our correspondent says.
The trial is being held in a building inside a high-security prison surrounded by high concrete walls and razor wire.
The men, who have been held for four-and-a-half months with restricted access to lawyers and relatives, have complained about prison conditions.
Following their arrest in March, they had claimed they were tortured by Zimbabwean security agents.
The Zimbabwean government recently signed an extradition deal with Equatorial Guinea, where other South Africans are being held on suspicion of being the advanced party in the alleged plot.
The group's lawyers have appealed to the South African government to extradite them there instead, so they would not face a possible death penalty.
But South African state lawyers have opposed this legal request and the constitutional court is to deliver its decision.