Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Interesting to note that his age of 67 was mentioned, hopefully to be taken in mitigation, along with the effect his conviction will have on his family.
Single pilot, public transport with passengers is not allowed over the age of 60. One can only wonder what type of flying he had been doing for the last seven years.
From the evidence found, this was by no means his first offence with regard to aviation and he'd had plenty of time in his past to consider the possibilities and ramifications of eventually being caught out.
I have no sympathy whatsoever.
Single pilot, public transport with passengers is not allowed over the age of 60. One can only wonder what type of flying he had been doing for the last seven years.
From the evidence found, this was by no means his first offence with regard to aviation and he'd had plenty of time in his past to consider the possibilities and ramifications of eventually being caught out.
I have no sympathy whatsoever.
"Grey Charter" ???????
To me grey means in the middle/ debatable?
This was in no way "grey."
A man running a charter business with no AOC, employing PPL's without ratings, on an American registered aircraft in Europe? What is grey about that?
But yes we found out what the law thinks of these operatations...
18 months?? Are you kidding me? He'll be out just after Christmas. What a joke!
The message this sends to these illegal operations, and there are very many, is carry on... no-one really cares. Shocking!
To me grey means in the middle/ debatable?
This was in no way "grey."
A man running a charter business with no AOC, employing PPL's without ratings, on an American registered aircraft in Europe? What is grey about that?
But yes we found out what the law thinks of these operatations...
18 months?? Are you kidding me? He'll be out just after Christmas. What a joke!
The message this sends to these illegal operations, and there are very many, is carry on... no-one really cares. Shocking!
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Even 6 months in a jail will be no pleasure trip. Having been chastised rightly so publicly will ensure he doesn't t do this again. These black charters (rather than grey) are despicable. I hope with this court case the CAA will have gained some confidence and will start prosecuting more.
de minimus non curat lex
Henderson sentenced to 18 months, to be released on licence after 9 months which is on or about 11 August 2022.
The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.
Given the hassle & legal costs, some might just think twice.
If a hard core exists, the publicity of this tragic accident might deter punters from taking a risk.
And just how aged 67, (single crew operations cease aged 60, multi crew aged 65) was not explored notwithstanding illegal charter in the first place.
CAA intend to revoke his UK CAA licence (subject to appeal process), although given his ‘mental health’ mentioned by his Barrister, a medical certificate might in its own right be an issue?
No word from the FAA about their PPL.
As he is most likely to be sued and made bankrupt, his future is somewhat bleak, even if he does successfully appeal conviction/sentencing.
Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.
Lack of CAA resources seems to mean that only when an accident/incident occurs, do they take action. Would a dedicated CRIMESTOPPERS number help? An email address for reporting does exist.
The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.
Given the hassle & legal costs, some might just think twice.
If a hard core exists, the publicity of this tragic accident might deter punters from taking a risk.
And just how aged 67, (single crew operations cease aged 60, multi crew aged 65) was not explored notwithstanding illegal charter in the first place.
CAA intend to revoke his UK CAA licence (subject to appeal process), although given his ‘mental health’ mentioned by his Barrister, a medical certificate might in its own right be an issue?
No word from the FAA about their PPL.
As he is most likely to be sued and made bankrupt, his future is somewhat bleak, even if he does successfully appeal conviction/sentencing.
Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.
Lack of CAA resources seems to mean that only when an accident/incident occurs, do they take action. Would a dedicated CRIMESTOPPERS number help? An email address for reporting does exist.
Henderson sentenced to 18 months, to be released on licence after 9 months which is on or about 11 August 2022.
The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.
Given the hassle & legal costs, some might just think twice.
If a hard core exists, the publicity of this tragic accident might deter punters from taking a risk.
And just how aged 67, (single crew operations cease aged 60, multi crew aged 65) was not explored notwithstanding illegal charter in the first place.
CAA intend to revoke his UK CAA licence (subject to appeal process), although given his ‘mental health’ mentioned by his Barrister, a medical certificate might in its own right be an issue?
No word from the FAA about their PPL.
As he is most likely to be sued and made bankrupt, his future is somewhat bleak, even if he does successfully appeal conviction/sentencing.
Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.
Lack of CAA resources seems to mean that only when an accident/incident occurs, do they take action. Would a dedicated CRIMESTOPPERS number help? An email address for reporting does exist.
The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.
Given the hassle & legal costs, some might just think twice.
If a hard core exists, the publicity of this tragic accident might deter punters from taking a risk.
And just how aged 67, (single crew operations cease aged 60, multi crew aged 65) was not explored notwithstanding illegal charter in the first place.
CAA intend to revoke his UK CAA licence (subject to appeal process), although given his ‘mental health’ mentioned by his Barrister, a medical certificate might in its own right be an issue?
No word from the FAA about their PPL.
As he is most likely to be sued and made bankrupt, his future is somewhat bleak, even if he does successfully appeal conviction/sentencing.
Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.
Lack of CAA resources seems to mean that only when an accident/incident occurs, do they take action. Would a dedicated CRIMESTOPPERS number help? An email address for reporting does exist.
I'm with ShyTorque on this one (post 2329)...and happyjack (post 2330). Meanwhile, I note from the BBC's online news report: "Henderson was supposed to fly the plane, but was on holiday with his wife in Paris, so asked Mr Ibbotson to do the journey." If that is true, I am truly astounded as to the leniency of an 18month sentence, especially given - as has been pointed out above - Britain's overflowing jail system will almost certainly lead to jail time no longer than half that handed down, at most. And Henderson was a former RAF officer, according to the news trail? If that, too, is fact, now would be the time for a shaming 'distancing' statement from H.M.'s military regarding such crap practice...excuse my language, Your Majesty. At the end of all of this sad, sorry tale someone is going to need to inject some confidence that improvement has resulted. The courts just failed to deliver on that one, those involved will run a mile away, the enforcement authorities will drift back into nonchalance like before, former military bosses will fail to condemn one of their own, and the 'grey' fraternity will continue like nothing ever happened... "Sala, who?" The lamentable truth looks to me that only carbon monoxide caught us all out this once, and that precisely nothing will really change as a result. That, my friends, will likely be the ultimate outcome. I take no pleasure in stating as much.
de minimus non curat lex
Henderson was in the RAF for about 2 years as a trainee navigator but left before qualifying for reasons which are best described as ‘vague’ ; didn’t like the lifestyle. Uhm!
And Henderson was a former RAF officer, according to the news trail? If that, too, is fact, now would be the time for a shaming 'distancing' statement from H.M.'s military
According to some sources (upthread if I remember correctly, certainly from elsewhere) he was an officer relatively briefly and a long time ago, but it seems to be an “angle” the press were fond of.
Edit to add: slow typing, I see parkfell has filled in some of the gaps…
Henderson sentenced to 18 months, to be released on licence after 9 months which is on or about 11 August 2022.
The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.
Snip
Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.
.
The sentence wasn’t due to the crash & loss of life; it was due to lack of an AOC/illegal charter…it is suggested previously that the conviction/sentencing is not a deterrent to these unlawful flights.
Snip
Robert Murgatroyd was sentenced in 2019 to 40 months for his illegal charter, as pilot who crash landed shortly after take-off from Barton with 3 passengers. Fortunately just comparatively minor injuries.
.
I believe Murgatroyd had previous convictions hence a harsher sentence in his accident case as he hadn’t changed his ways.
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"Grey Charter" ???????
To me grey means in the middle/ debatable?
This was in no way "grey."
A man running a charter business with no AOC, employing PPL's without ratings, on an American registered aircraft in Europe? What is grey about that?
But yes we found out what the law thinks of these operatations...
18 months?? Are you kidding me? He'll be out just after Christmas. What a joke!
The message this sends to these illegal operations, and there are very many, is carry on... no-one really cares. Shocking!
To me grey means in the middle/ debatable?
This was in no way "grey."
A man running a charter business with no AOC, employing PPL's without ratings, on an American registered aircraft in Europe? What is grey about that?
But yes we found out what the law thinks of these operatations...
18 months?? Are you kidding me? He'll be out just after Christmas. What a joke!
The message this sends to these illegal operations, and there are very many, is carry on... no-one really cares. Shocking!
Emiliano Sala: David Henderson jailed for organising flight
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59251852
BBC News
BBC News
The man who organised the flight which killed footballer Emiliano Sala and pilot David Ibbotson has been sentenced to 18 months in prison.
David Henderson, 67, of Hotham, East Riding of Yorkshire, was found guilty last month of recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft.
He also admitted to a charge of trying to arrange a flight for a passenger without permission or authorisation.
Sala and Mr Ibbotson died in January 2019 in a crash in the English Channel.
The footballer's body was found about two-and-a-half weeks after the crash, though Mr Ibbotson, the pilot, has never been found.
David Henderson, 67, of Hotham, East Riding of Yorkshire, was found guilty last month of recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft.
He also admitted to a charge of trying to arrange a flight for a passenger without permission or authorisation.
Sala and Mr Ibbotson died in January 2019 in a crash in the English Channel.
The footballer's body was found about two-and-a-half weeks after the crash, though Mr Ibbotson, the pilot, has never been found.
That is all true, but regardless of his misdemeanour any legal pilot could/would have succumbed to CO incapacitation.
What I don't perceive in all the concentration commenting and dealing with one man's crime is anything directed at maintenance. Either via the written procedures which may not call for CO leak inspection, or perhaps the organisation responsible for maintenance which at best failed to see incipient exhaust leaks.
No leaks and we'd not have heard of the ancillary crime !
What I don't perceive in all the concentration commenting and dealing with one man's crime is anything directed at maintenance. Either via the written procedures which may not call for CO leak inspection, or perhaps the organisation responsible for maintenance which at best failed to see incipient exhaust leaks.
No leaks and we'd not have heard of the ancillary crime !
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Question re Carbon monoxide poisoning.
Does it cause gradual incapacitation, as apparently Dave Ibbo was talking to ATC quite coherently until very shortly before the crash?
Does it cause gradual incapacitation, as apparently Dave Ibbo was talking to ATC quite coherently until very shortly before the crash?
Moderator
Does it cause gradual incapacitation
Last edited by Pilot DAR; 12th Nov 2021 at 23:56. Reason: typo
That is all true, but regardless of his misdemeanour any legal pilot could/would have succumbed to CO incapacitation.
What I don't perceive in all the concentration commenting and dealing with one man's crime is anything directed at maintenance. Either via the written procedures which may not call for CO leak inspection, or perhaps the organisation responsible for maintenance which at best failed to see incipient exhaust leaks.
No leaks and we'd not have heard of the ancillary crime !
What I don't perceive in all the concentration commenting and dealing with one man's crime is anything directed at maintenance. Either via the written procedures which may not call for CO leak inspection, or perhaps the organisation responsible for maintenance which at best failed to see incipient exhaust leaks.
No leaks and we'd not have heard of the ancillary crime !
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This gentleman was only one part of a very dubious chain. Will the others be dealt with?
I don't see any regulatory loop holes Richard, it's just a case of catching the transgressors, a bit like those speedsters on the freeway, the rules are there, you just need to catch them and put them in front of the courts.
de minimus non curat lex
The Regulations need to be reviewed with consideration given to include those paying for “Grey Charters” to be guilty of an offence.
If the law was retrospective (not that I am suggesting it should be in this case) then the football agents etc asking for these cut price flights would get their collars felt as well.
Where these individuals oblivious to the regulations?
A forensic examination of Henderson’s transactions may well be revealing.
As for the Coroner’s Inquest in February 2022, that is likely to confine itself to the circumstances surrounding the deaths on board the fatal aircraft crash.
The AAIB report with Inspector will feature heavily.
As it is not a Public Inquiry, wider aspects are unlikely to be examined.
If the law was retrospective (not that I am suggesting it should be in this case) then the football agents etc asking for these cut price flights would get their collars felt as well.
Where these individuals oblivious to the regulations?
A forensic examination of Henderson’s transactions may well be revealing.
As for the Coroner’s Inquest in February 2022, that is likely to confine itself to the circumstances surrounding the deaths on board the fatal aircraft crash.
The AAIB report with Inspector will feature heavily.
As it is not a Public Inquiry, wider aspects are unlikely to be examined.