Cirrus down near Sherburn.
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Surely the aircraft would still be moving forward relative to the air, so the ground speed can't be zero on impact, unless there's an equal and opposite headwind, or it nose dived in. I suppose, if the power to weight ratio was high enough, it could descend vertically, but then the tail would hit first.
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Yes, you’re correct about the deployments above Vpd. That’s the certificated speed. What I didn’t realise was that the first successful recovery of an aircraft by parachute was back in the 1920’s so it’s nothing new.
It’s a mindset you need to develop through scenario based training. People still forget it’s there or have a ‘macho’ “I can handle this” attitude.
It’s a mindset you need to develop through scenario based training. People still forget it’s there or have a ‘macho’ “I can handle this” attitude.
Aero Poznan has a full motion simulator including the ability to pull the chute and offer exactly this kind of training. I did the equivalent course on a simulator in the US and it is well worth doing for any Cirrus Pilot.
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Surely the aircraft would still be moving forward relative to the air,
When I train pilots on draggy aircraft like amphibious floatplanes, this scenario is a factor in the training, and is practiced. In the same aircraft, a glide approach could be at 60 knots, or at 80 knots. The 80 knots glide will give the pilot time to flare, and arrest the rate of descent, the 60 knot approach in the same aircraft will not. If the surface is not firm, it's going to grab you in any case.
I'm not saying that this is what happened in this accident, though when I see an upright aircraft (which is good) on the ground, with the engine peeled off, that comes to mind.
And the `elephant in the room is`...How can you be overhead an airfield with 6 runways at approx 2000ft,and end up a mile short of the airfield,with ,or without power...????
Do people not practice a PFL over or close to an airfield...?
A 20-30deg. banked turn is all that is needed,aiming for about 1/3 of a runway initially,flying at the correct speed,balanced turns and adjusting the aiming point to land by `S`turns,sideslips.....NEVER ,ever `turn your back` on the target and try to do a `straight-in` F/Landing.
And ,if crashing seems inevitable,then, crash under control....!!!
Do people not practice a PFL over or close to an airfield...?
A 20-30deg. banked turn is all that is needed,aiming for about 1/3 of a runway initially,flying at the correct speed,balanced turns and adjusting the aiming point to land by `S`turns,sideslips.....NEVER ,ever `turn your back` on the target and try to do a `straight-in` F/Landing.
And ,if crashing seems inevitable,then, crash under control....!!!
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Please can someone explain to be the serious concern some people have about not flying the downwind leg out of gliding range of the airfield, when the entire en-route section of the flight has just been performed outside gliding range of any airfield? What do they think the engine knows about being in the circuit that will upset it?
Sorry guys,I had presumed that the end result had been because of an earlier problem,leading to some kind of f/landing,so it looks even more bizarre to end up as it did...
Unfortunately,a lot of pilots seem to extend the downwind leg ,and dragging in on final from a couple of miles,instead of a glide approach and short final.Extending upwind is easier for spacing with multiple a/c in the circuit,but there will always be jokers who join `long final,just in binocular range,and screw up the pattern...
Unfortunately,a lot of pilots seem to extend the downwind leg ,and dragging in on final from a couple of miles,instead of a glide approach and short final.Extending upwind is easier for spacing with multiple a/c in the circuit,but there will always be jokers who join `long final,just in binocular range,and screw up the pattern...
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You'd be surprised just how docile a Cirrus in a co-ordinated stall can be. The wing is so shaped that it stalls at the root first, causing terrific buffeting to warn the pilot, whilst allowing the wingtip to continue flying, meaning that the ailerons are still effective and can be used to level the wings and keep descending, fully stalled, with the wings parallel to the ground.
Don't forget this was a Cirrus aircraft, not your usual C150 or Tomahawk. Its speed in the circuit is likely to be 130 knots, so a much larger circuit will be flown. Also it has been said that they are a very 'slippery' airplane and take a lot of space to slow down. So a three mile final is quite a possibility, ( compared with a half mile final of a c150.)
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130kts in the pattern!!! Really?? Who flies the pattern above a speed you can use even the first stage of flap? The only reason you'd need a 3-mile final is if you were flying way too fast - and 130 is way too fast
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Its speed in the circuit is likely to be 130 knots
very 'slippery' airplane and take a lot of space to slow down.
a half mile final of a c150
There have been several threads on here about flying circuit patterns at airfields. A lot of it is also contained in the AIP of the airfield you are arriving at.
I no nothing about this incident other than whats above and it looks like a positioning issue, to begin with.
Its speed in the circuit is likely to be 130 knots
Here is a copy of the POH for the SR-22T:
http://servicecenters.cirrusdesign.com/techpubs/pdf/POH/SR22-005/pdf/Online13772-005.pdf
Wishing a speedy recovery to the pilot and the pax.
http://servicecenters.cirrusdesign.com/techpubs/pdf/POH/SR22-005/pdf/Online13772-005.pdf
Wishing a speedy recovery to the pilot and the pax.
I Airpolice, you say... I'm also curious about the need for a much larger circuit, just because the speed is higher.
It's all about scale and time available, a slow Piper Cub can quite easily fit a circuit inside almost every other aircraft, and would never require more than a one mile Final. An Airbus or Boeing will always aim to have a six to ten mile final, they are often asked to control their speed to a standard 160 knots to 4 miles. The Cirrus just sits somewhere between these two extremes.
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It's all about scale and time available, a slow Piper Cub can quite easily fit a circuit inside almost every other aircraft, and would never require more than a one mile Final. An Airbus or Boeing will always aim to have a six to ten mile final, they are often asked to control their speed to a standard 160 knots to 4 miles. The Cirrus just sits somewhere between these two extremes.
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An Airbus or Boeing will always aim to have a six to ten mile final
No...
Generally the minimum height above threshold to be wings level on a circling approach is 300 ft; that would be at one mile. Visual circuits are easily done with wings level at two miles or so.
"a slow Piper Cub can quite easily fit a circuit inside almost every other aircraft, and would never require more than a one mile Final."
A Cub should never require more than a 1/4 mile final (and that's pushing it!). Abeam the numbers carb heat on, power back, trim, start turning base......
A Cub should never require more than a 1/4 mile final (and that's pushing it!). Abeam the numbers carb heat on, power back, trim, start turning base......
Well, yes, but sometimes when flying a cub one has to fit in with other traffic. We don't all confine ourselves to bimbling around local from a farm strip, pleasant though that is.
Also it has been said that they are a very 'slippery' airplane and take a lot of space to slow down.
Fair point PC. Having read SciFi suggest that 130kts in the circuit was normal for a Cirrus I thought they meant that a 1-mile final was normal in a Cub. Fitting in is a bit different - you gotta do what you gotta do. I must confess that the last time I took a Cub-like contraption on a bimble of any length (LA-SF in a Champ) I did make a mental note to stick to farm strips in Cubs, and take something a bit quicker for the longer legs!
FFB - bang on.
FFB - bang on.
