Cirrus down near Sherburn.
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Cirrus down near Sherburn.
Looks like a Cirrus flying into or out of Sherburn has ended up in a field near Hambleton North Yorks. 2 injured.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/1568...rkshire_field/
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/1568...rkshire_field/
Last edited by Simplythebeast; 25th Nov 2017 at 17:14.
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From: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=201834
Airplane damage: Substantial
Location: SE of Sherburn-in-Elmet Airfield, North Yorkshire - United Kingdom
Phase: Landing
Nature: Private
Departure airport: Leeds East Airport (EGXG)
Destination airport: Sherburn-in-Elmet Airfield (EGCJ)
Narrative:
The aircraft experienced a force landing in open terrain southeast of Sherburn-in-Elmet Airfield, North Yorkshire, England. The aircraft sustained substantial damage and the two occupants onboard apparently received serious injuries.
Airplane damage: Substantial
Location: SE of Sherburn-in-Elmet Airfield, North Yorkshire - United Kingdom
Phase: Landing
Nature: Private
Departure airport: Leeds East Airport (EGXG)
Destination airport: Sherburn-in-Elmet Airfield (EGCJ)
Narrative:
The aircraft experienced a force landing in open terrain southeast of Sherburn-in-Elmet Airfield, North Yorkshire, England. The aircraft sustained substantial damage and the two occupants onboard apparently received serious injuries.
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I’m sure the AAIB will use their own reliable sources thank you.
When using FR24's data, like any source of information, you have to understand the limitations of the data you are using. With that in mind FR24 and other citizen reporting type things are really good.
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There is a cost-benefit decision about getting other data, which for a Cirrus would include the onboard recorder.
Best wishes for a good recovery to those involved.
It appears all aircraft tracking and altitude information will soon be in the public domain.
How long will it be before insurance companies use this to assess premiums?
How long will it be before insurance companies use this to assess premiums?
Moderator
The photos show the parachute compartment uncovered, but the straps which connect the parachute to the airframe do not appear to be opened. From this, I conclude that the parachute was not deployed. The flaps appear to be extended, suggesting a planned approach descent. If I understand Cirrus parachute use correctly, there is an altitude below which the parachute cannot be effectively deployed. Perhaps they were below that altitude.
The appearance of the engine and cowl as a whole having been peeled downward, and lots of mud sprayed around, suggests a sudden stop in soft ground (as opposed to a rollout). If the ground were firm, contact with a high rate of descent can also do this to an airframe.
In any case, this was a sudden stop for the occupants. The injuries described are consistent with the sudden stop.
The appearance of the engine and cowl as a whole having been peeled downward, and lots of mud sprayed around, suggests a sudden stop in soft ground (as opposed to a rollout). If the ground were firm, contact with a high rate of descent can also do this to an airframe.
In any case, this was a sudden stop for the occupants. The injuries described are consistent with the sudden stop.
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The photos show the parachute compartment uncovered, but the straps which connect the parachute to the airframe do not appear to be opened. From this, I conclude that the parachute was not deployed. The flaps appear to be extended, suggesting a planned approach descent. If I understand Cirrus parachute use correctly, there is an altitude below which the parachute cannot be effectively deployed. Perhaps they were below that altitude.
The appearance of the engine and cowl as a whole having been peeled downward, and lots of mud sprayed around, suggests a sudden stop in soft ground (as opposed to a rollout). If the ground were firm, contact with a high rate of descent can also do this to an airframe.
In any case, this was a sudden stop for the occupants. The injuries described are consistent with the sudden stop.
The appearance of the engine and cowl as a whole having been peeled downward, and lots of mud sprayed around, suggests a sudden stop in soft ground (as opposed to a rollout). If the ground were firm, contact with a high rate of descent can also do this to an airframe.
In any case, this was a sudden stop for the occupants. The injuries described are consistent with the sudden stop.
The rescue services approach small plane wrecks rather gingerly now that many microlights and the cirrus have ballistic parachutes, when I minced my Maule the first thing the fire dept. guy asked upon arrival was "does it have a chute? "
As for FR24 I absolutely love it, it showed my Maule doing 240 kts on today's 90kts bimble.
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The disconcerting thing about those photos is that it looks like the aircraft landed with no ground speed at all, even though the prop must still have been turning. You can't even see where the undercarriage dragged across the grass. It's more what you'd expect to see if it came down under the chute, but clearly that was not deployed. Weird.
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Yes, but not advised to use below 1000 feet.
Below 500’ (600’ G5 and up) no point as it is unlikely to deploy fully/properly in time.
Below 2000, don’t take too long to think about it.
Above 2000 assess and deploy as appropriate. Recommended that when not within gliding distance of a suitable landing strip.
Parachute deployment speed circa 133kt depending on model.
Moderator
stalls at about 60kts with flaps down, and I doubt it would be possible to keep its wings level if the forward speed dropped much below that.
Aircraft modified with STOL kits are particularly susceptible to this.
Thoughts...
- Of course people link FR24 data, as it's the only thing usually in the public domain. But yes, it's unreliable being comprised of a merger of data from multiple "amateur" receivers. A lot of that is very good, but I'm not aware of any serious study analysing the data quality available from it; I have heard enough anecdotes from pilots who have seen their aircraft on FR24 particularly at markedly different altitudes to what they knew they were flying at, to distrust it.
- Re: AAIB, yes they can access secondary and even primary radar returns, which are much more informative. But there may be no good reason to. AAIB's job is to provide recommendations that can prevent a future accident. Only they can judge the complexity of investigation needed to achieve that, but often yes - it can be done purely by correspondence. Sometimes not.
- It's a Cirrus, it's full of computers and likely to have a very accurate downloadable flight track. However, the owner and most likely AAIB have that, we don't.
G
- Of course people link FR24 data, as it's the only thing usually in the public domain. But yes, it's unreliable being comprised of a merger of data from multiple "amateur" receivers. A lot of that is very good, but I'm not aware of any serious study analysing the data quality available from it; I have heard enough anecdotes from pilots who have seen their aircraft on FR24 particularly at markedly different altitudes to what they knew they were flying at, to distrust it.
- Re: AAIB, yes they can access secondary and even primary radar returns, which are much more informative. But there may be no good reason to. AAIB's job is to provide recommendations that can prevent a future accident. Only they can judge the complexity of investigation needed to achieve that, but often yes - it can be done purely by correspondence. Sometimes not.
- It's a Cirrus, it's full of computers and likely to have a very accurate downloadable flight track. However, the owner and most likely AAIB have that, we don't.
G
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Three bands, based on AGL.
Below 500’ (600’ G5 and up) no point as it is unlikely to deploy fully/properly in time.
Below 2000, don’t take too long to think about it.
Above 2000 assess and deploy as appropriate. Recommended that when not within gliding distance of a suitable landing strip.
Parachute deployment speed circa 133kt depending on model.
Below 500’ (600’ G5 and up) no point as it is unlikely to deploy fully/properly in time.
Below 2000, don’t take too long to think about it.
Above 2000 assess and deploy as appropriate. Recommended that when not within gliding distance of a suitable landing strip.
Parachute deployment speed circa 133kt depending on model.
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It's a Cirrus, it's full of computers and likely to have a very accurate downloadable flight track. However, the owner and most likely AAIB have that, we don't.
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Yes, you’re correct about the deployments above Vpd. That’s the certificated speed. What I didn’t realise was that the first successful recovery of an aircraft by parachute was back in the 1920’s so it’s nothing new.
It’s a mindset you need to develop through scenario based training. People still forget it’s there or have a ‘macho’ “I can handle this” attitude.
It’s a mindset you need to develop through scenario based training. People still forget it’s there or have a ‘macho’ “I can handle this” attitude.
