Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:26
  #3341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Waterford, CT USA
Age: 81
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Imarsat statement merely mentions routine signals were received and it does not mention how many or for how long.

I seem to remember from early posts that one or possibly two such routine signals occurred at the normal expected times and positions. Receipt of thse two transmissions alone would fall within the statement above.
AugustFalcon is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:31
  #3342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 40 North 75 West
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It was a moonlit night so a change of course would be obvious from the half moon.
The first quarter Moon sets approximately 6 hours after sunset. The Moon that night had set and was well below the horizon when the aircraft apparently turned.
SLF305 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:32
  #3343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: inmysuitcase
Posts: 209
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the rest, how all this has been allowed to happen in 2014, I have not a single clue, like all of us.
Than you are not a pilot or f/a, the reason is a phenomenon called "beancounters", looking for dollars, euros, rupies, pesos you name it!
testpanel is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:34
  #3344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Rolls-Royce Statement - Rolls-Royce

Rolls-Royce Statement
Friday, 14 March 2014
Rolls-Royce continues to provide its full support to the authorities and Malaysia Airlines. Rolls-Royce concurs with the statement made on Thursday 13 March by Malaysia's Transport Minister, Hishammuddin Hussein regarding engine health monitoring data received from the aircraft.
IIRC that statement by the Transport Minister was, only two engine datasets were received, the last one at TOC shortly before the transponder signal was lost. I don't remember any statements if those datasets were transmitted via VHF or SATCOM/Inmarsat.

IF they were transmitted by VHF (possible because close to land), then the Press Release by inmarsat could mean, that the "Routine Messages" were part of lower layer communication between transceiver and satellite. Obvious is that none of the protagonist is making an unambiguous statement.

Last edited by OleOle; 14th Mar 2014 at 18:48.
OleOle is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:35
  #3345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Testpanel, I am indeed one of those beancounters. I know how much I spend on training, security and safety. Hence my comment.
Celestar is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:43
  #3346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is it possible the Inmarsat pings continued to be sent after a crash, or successful ditch at sea attempt?
Winston-Smith is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:44
  #3347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: warwickshire
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How long does the 777 FDR keep info for? Remember in the case of the Helios flight, it flew on for so long all the essential data was wiped.
giblets is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:45
  #3348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Back to the basics...

I have noticed differing posting of the last 10 or so flight data points. The original postings in the early days of this event display the last 2 updates with a flight level of zero(0). The recent postings and news reports I've seen in the media seems to fill in those two values with the same 35,000ft as the rest of the 10 updates rather than the original reports of zero.
This maybe a key oversight. And why so many "experts" are focusing on other areas. I believe the last two reports of zero for altitude along with a constant reading for air speed may provide insight.
1. Is the SPEED input to the TRANSPONDER from a PITOT tube based system or another source, say GPS?
2. If it is PITOT tube based, does it share any sub-system component with the PITOT tube based system providing the ALTIMETER input to the transponder?
3. Once that is established a look at relative placement of the two pitot tubes, common power bus connections to the different/same modules, etc. could be analyzed.
4. Many failure possibilities for a perfectly functioning altimeter would produce erratic readings or at least none-zero reading. For an alt. that has ceased to work, the transponder or the system will fill in "zero's" in the data packet.
The fact that the transponder is instantaneously reporting zero while the a/c is 7 miles high in the sky is a key piece of information. The lack of radio reports while the transponder is still working would indicate an in-cabin event which precluded a radio report. Then over a three minute period the transponder ceases reports all together.
It looks like this geographical area is where transponder updates become sketchy as some historic tracks lose data up to a point just short of reaching the Vietnam coast.
All of this points to a rapidly deteriorating electrical system in the aircraft.
The oil rig observation is interesting. The observer is over 300 nm away but it is a dark, cloudless night. His observation of a burning plane would be down near the horizon. But his comment that, from his vantage point, he could percieve no lateral motion lends credibility to his report as we know the plane had just turned more in his direction, head on along with the indication that the event took place much further away than it appears.
If one of those US destroyers in the area is ASW equipped they should run their towed array sonar along 060 to 075 from LKP. The idea it was still in the air for 4 hrs lacks any published data... same as the "military radar" theory. Lets see some data.
captainjim47 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:45
  #3349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Inmarsat

From: BBC News - Lost Malaysia plane 'may have flown on for five hours'

'However, the BBC understands that a satellite system operated by London-based telecommunications company Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.'

have the bbc managed to get inside information from inmarsat?
orfeas is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:45
  #3350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: VA, USA
Age: 58
Posts: 578
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FDR 25 hours
CVR 2 hours
GarageYears is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:48
  #3351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,553
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
orfeas

have the bbc managed to get inside information from inmarsat?
Or maybe they've simply got somebody watching Skynews (see the comment about a page back).
wiggy is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:50
  #3352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paso Robles
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Chinese appear to have other resources to confirm the impact.
I am amazed that one can be so naive putting so much value in the Chinese data. And their satellite image showing the "debris" most likely was a total poppycock, probably some sort of political posturing to brag about their satellites. Also witnesses are notoriously wrong - this includes "Michael" working on an oil rig. I rather believe in "electronic" evidence than 100 witnesses. We know from TWA 800 what witnesses are worth.

Last edited by porterhouse; 14th Mar 2014 at 19:04.
porterhouse is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:51
  #3353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Age: 65
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At this rate, passengers will soon be required to switch their phones ON during flight, and de-select Flight Mode.
overthewing is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:53
  #3354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Winston-Smith
Is it possible the Inmarsat pings continued to be sent after a crash, or successful ditch at sea attempt?
Possibly, provided the satellite terminal still had power and the antenna was pointed in approximately the right direction. I could imagine that being true for a while after ditching, but it seems unlikely in a crash.
MG23 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:55
  #3355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Las Vegas NV.
Age: 63
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Airspeed and pressure altitude both come from the air data box. Would be 429 data between the air data and instruments and transponders.

Mode S sends altitude out 2 different ways the mode C reply in 100' increments and in mode S in 25' increments. If they agree ( say 35,000 and 35,025) the reply is considered valid. If they disagree ( 35,000 and 31,475) the reply is invalid.
LASJayhawk is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:56
  #3356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At this rate, passengers will soon be required to switch their phones ON during flight, and de-select Flight Mode
haha! some hectic Airworthiness Directives are gonna come out soon after this MH370 mystery is gonna be solved. Pretty sure they gonna put in place some sorta GPS transponder that is disable-proof!
EngineeringPilot is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:56
  #3357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: AUS
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It was a moonlit night so a change of course would be obvious from the half moon.
Per the US Naval Observatory's calculator, moonset in KL was 0039 local, well before 370 reached IGARI and the possible course change. Anyone wanting to navigate by the sky would have had to use stars.

Last edited by djlynch; 14th Mar 2014 at 18:57. Reason: Fixing quote tag
djlynch is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 18:57
  #3358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CaptainJim

Pitot tubes do not feed altimiters.
Pitot tubes always feed separate systems. That is why you have more than one.
Towed array sonar does not do what you think it does.

Aside from that, sounds like you know what you are talking about, Captain....
Tourist is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:01
  #3359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
Cabin crew.

Whilst we may consider the actions and motives of the flight crew, what about the cabin crew - have they been considered.

I'm cabin crew, with a ppl, and an interest in aviation. I know the basics of flight. I believe I would be capable of altering the auto pilot coordinates. I'm certain that I could not land a B777 without considerable training. Maybe one of the crew thought they could?

Importantly, as a third party hijacker, I know exactly how to enter the flight deck and would my request would not raise any suspicion. Particularly if I'm equipped with two cups of tea at the top of climb.

Just, another, thought
PC767 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:01
  #3360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Further to the moon set times etc, most passengers are not aware of any of that, far less the flight plan route. A turn is just that, a turn on a route, and they do not question it. Turns happen when you are holding, even on airways at higher than normal holding altitudes.
777JRM is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.