United GRU-ORD Divert to MIA to Offload Purser
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United GRU-ORD Divert to MIA to Offload Purser
Yet another test of the 'modern' view of captain's authority?
United flight diverts after captain and flight attendant argue
Avionews
DATE:16/07/09
SOURCE:Flightglobal.com
United flight diverts after captain and flight attendant argue
By Kieran Daly
United Airlines is conducting an internal investigation after one of its captains diverted a flight to deplane a senior flight attendant who he argued with.
Flight 842 from Sao Paulo, Brazil to Chicago O'Hare diverted to Miami early in the morning of 14 July midway through the scheduled non-stop flight of nearly eleven hours.
A source familiar with the incident says the captain ordered the purser of the Boeing 767 to leave the aircraft because he or she was "not respecting his authority"...
SOURCE:Flightglobal.com
United flight diverts after captain and flight attendant argue
By Kieran Daly
United Airlines is conducting an internal investigation after one of its captains diverted a flight to deplane a senior flight attendant who he argued with.
Flight 842 from Sao Paulo, Brazil to Chicago O'Hare diverted to Miami early in the morning of 14 July midway through the scheduled non-stop flight of nearly eleven hours.
A source familiar with the incident says the captain ordered the purser of the Boeing 767 to leave the aircraft because he or she was "not respecting his authority"...
Curiosities
04:40 pm - Friday
United Airlines: pilot argues with steward, flight diverted
Miami, USA - The captain landed to disembark the "Unwanted" assistant
(WAPA) - "Let's go outside and solve the question". This is what, very American-like, the pilot of United Airlines' flight UAL842, from Sao Paulo (Brazil) to Chicago (USA), must have thought after an argument with a flight assistant. The only problem was that he was on board of the aircraft, a Boeing 767/300, about half way on his route. For this reason he decided to land in Miami, Florida, to disembark the "Unwanted" steward.
"He was not respecting my authority", the touchy captain is reported as saying. The aircraft remained on the ground for about a hour, before taking off again towards Chicago without any further problem. The fact, happened on July 14, has been confirmed by a FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) spokeswoman, who explained that the pilot considered that the issue had to be solved on the ground...
04:40 pm - Friday
United Airlines: pilot argues with steward, flight diverted
Miami, USA - The captain landed to disembark the "Unwanted" assistant
(WAPA) - "Let's go outside and solve the question". This is what, very American-like, the pilot of United Airlines' flight UAL842, from Sao Paulo (Brazil) to Chicago (USA), must have thought after an argument with a flight assistant. The only problem was that he was on board of the aircraft, a Boeing 767/300, about half way on his route. For this reason he decided to land in Miami, Florida, to disembark the "Unwanted" steward.
"He was not respecting my authority", the touchy captain is reported as saying. The aircraft remained on the ground for about a hour, before taking off again towards Chicago without any further problem. The fact, happened on July 14, has been confirmed by a FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) spokeswoman, who explained that the pilot considered that the issue had to be solved on the ground...
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United GRU-ORD Divert to MIA to Offload Purser
Since it appears like there are no open threads on this subject, here's as new one...
Picked up this on another forum:
Picked up this on another forum:
This is all I am going to say about this incident:
The Purser of flight 842 was female. The Captain of the flight wanted the general declaration so he could add his signature to it. The Purser was not in a position to grab another flight attendant right at that moment to monitor the area so the gen dec could be passed through the cockpit door. The situation escalated.
The Captain made the decision to divert to MIA to have the Purser removed from flight for undermining his Captain's Authority. The First Officers on flight 842 advocated for MCO, since MIA is no longer served by UA Mainline. The Captain chose to divert to MIA anyway.
The Purser was removed from the flight upon arrival at MIA and sent to a layover hotel, followed by a deadhead back to ORD after required crew rest.
The ORD-GRU-ORD trip was the Captain's first trip back to the line after extended sick leave. The Captain has been removed from the remainder of his flying schedule. The Purser who was removed, has NOT been removed from the remainder of her flying schedule.
Draw your own conclusions...
The Purser of flight 842 was female. The Captain of the flight wanted the general declaration so he could add his signature to it. The Purser was not in a position to grab another flight attendant right at that moment to monitor the area so the gen dec could be passed through the cockpit door. The situation escalated.
The Captain made the decision to divert to MIA to have the Purser removed from flight for undermining his Captain's Authority. The First Officers on flight 842 advocated for MCO, since MIA is no longer served by UA Mainline. The Captain chose to divert to MIA anyway.
The Purser was removed from the flight upon arrival at MIA and sent to a layover hotel, followed by a deadhead back to ORD after required crew rest.
The ORD-GRU-ORD trip was the Captain's first trip back to the line after extended sick leave. The Captain has been removed from the remainder of his flying schedule. The Purser who was removed, has NOT been removed from the remainder of her flying schedule.
Draw your own conclusions...
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A longhaul divert due to crew issues is extremely rare in my experience.
Over a decade ago a Delta MD-11 flightcrew on an Atlanta-Seoul flight diverted to Portland, Oregon after deciding that they were 'fatigued'. The union and the company were battling over crew rest facilities and the pilots had a little tent that they pitched in front of the pax to sleep in. As I recall, the captain was near retirement and the matter was handled administratively. If there are any RD's left here they may have more insight.
I've heard of a flight attendant being offloaded at an outstation for failing to properly greet the captain when he boarded 'his' aircraft. It was in the Middle East and egos tend to be ramped up a little there from what I've seen. However, I can't think of another divert caused by such authority issues.
Over a decade ago a Delta MD-11 flightcrew on an Atlanta-Seoul flight diverted to Portland, Oregon after deciding that they were 'fatigued'. The union and the company were battling over crew rest facilities and the pilots had a little tent that they pitched in front of the pax to sleep in. As I recall, the captain was near retirement and the matter was handled administratively. If there are any RD's left here they may have more insight.
I've heard of a flight attendant being offloaded at an outstation for failing to properly greet the captain when he boarded 'his' aircraft. It was in the Middle East and egos tend to be ramped up a little there from what I've seen. However, I can't think of another divert caused by such authority issues.
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We gave away the respect
We gave away the respect
You never notice the most of the time many cabin crew, ground crew and the ticket counters are wearing the same uniform of the pilots with epaulets? .
So many times , never the less I am Captain, I get confuse to who is who..
in any case we as pilots should start to respect our self first of all and than pretend respect from others .
Lets do not be ashamed to be called Captain if we have that title.
Lets do not remove our epaulets from our pilot shirt immediately after landing just because we do not wanna appears like superiors to others.
Lets pretend to be treated with respect in any way .
It start within our self.
If a pilot ground an airplane we shall not fly the same airplane just because we wanna show that we are better than others .
If an air company do not treat pilots with respect we should burn the ground around them let their airplane sit on the ground and see how they are going to change attitude.
Do not allow some HR,PR, that do not even know what is an airplane to decide if you are a pilot that fit for their company or not.
See how different the aviation world will be.
Riccardo Volante
You never notice the most of the time many cabin crew, ground crew and the ticket counters are wearing the same uniform of the pilots with epaulets? .
So many times , never the less I am Captain, I get confuse to who is who..
in any case we as pilots should start to respect our self first of all and than pretend respect from others .
Lets do not be ashamed to be called Captain if we have that title.
Lets do not remove our epaulets from our pilot shirt immediately after landing just because we do not wanna appears like superiors to others.
Lets pretend to be treated with respect in any way .
It start within our self.
If a pilot ground an airplane we shall not fly the same airplane just because we wanna show that we are better than others .
If an air company do not treat pilots with respect we should burn the ground around them let their airplane sit on the ground and see how they are going to change attitude.
Do not allow some HR,PR, that do not even know what is an airplane to decide if you are a pilot that fit for their company or not.
See how different the aviation world will be.
Riccardo Volante
Rotate on this!
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"We gave away the respect
You never notice the most of the time many cabin crew, ground crew and the ticket counters are wearing the same uniform of the pilots with epaulets? .
So many times , never the less I am Captain, I get confuse to who is who..
in any case we as pilots should start to respect our self first of all and than pretend respect from others .
Lets do not be ashamed to be called Captain if we have that title.
Lets do not remove our epaulets from our pilot shirt immediately after landing just because we do not wanna appears like superiors to others.
Lets pretend to be treated with respect in any way .
It start within our self.
If a pilot ground an airplane we shall not fly the same airplane just because we wanna show that we are better than others .
If an air company do not treat pilots with respect we should burn the ground around them let their airplane sit on the ground and see how they are going to change attitude.
Do not allow some HR,PR, that do not even know what is an airplane to decide if you are a pilot that fit for their company or not.
See how different the aviation world will be."
Did you even read the last paragraph in post #5
You never notice the most of the time many cabin crew, ground crew and the ticket counters are wearing the same uniform of the pilots with epaulets? .
So many times , never the less I am Captain, I get confuse to who is who..
in any case we as pilots should start to respect our self first of all and than pretend respect from others .
Lets do not be ashamed to be called Captain if we have that title.
Lets do not remove our epaulets from our pilot shirt immediately after landing just because we do not wanna appears like superiors to others.
Lets pretend to be treated with respect in any way .
It start within our self.
If a pilot ground an airplane we shall not fly the same airplane just because we wanna show that we are better than others .
If an air company do not treat pilots with respect we should burn the ground around them let their airplane sit on the ground and see how they are going to change attitude.
Do not allow some HR,PR, that do not even know what is an airplane to decide if you are a pilot that fit for their company or not.
See how different the aviation world will be."
Did you even read the last paragraph in post #5
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Captain his a captain
Captain his a captain .Many country around the world as issue for ATPL licensing without citizenship due to the legal power of the Captains.
If hierarchy is an issue well may be the job is not the right one for some people.
R.V.
If hierarchy is an issue well may be the job is not the right one for some people.
R.V.
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Captain
There is only one person, that is responsible for ALL, The CAPTAIN, I have seen it many times, Thanks to the Captain to get the argumentive person of the flight, he /she was most likely not doing a good job for the company. And if there is any punitive action against the Captain. We should all stand in for the Captain's the right to control the operation in a professional manner. How about once and for all a stand down to get this industry back on track. World Wide!!!!
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.....well I was always told that respect is something you earn by the example you set - it rarely comes in a box with a set of stripes.....
....now something about this tells me that the problem seems to lie in the left hand seat here. Would a seemingly trivial altercation with a Purser over a Gen Dec be reason to divert an aircraft? No suggestion that the Purser had turned violent. Maybe a quiet chat on the Jetway might have been more appropriate.
...anyway, where is 414A when you need some forthright opinion on Captaincy styles?
....now something about this tells me that the problem seems to lie in the left hand seat here. Would a seemingly trivial altercation with a Purser over a Gen Dec be reason to divert an aircraft? No suggestion that the Purser had turned violent. Maybe a quiet chat on the Jetway might have been more appropriate.
...anyway, where is 414A when you need some forthright opinion on Captaincy styles?
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My reading of it is the captain didn't care to wait for the purser to round up whatever resource needed (someone to monitor the area?) to shove the piece of paper through the door. Instead he chose to blow his top over a trifle. Glad I wasn't on that plane.
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As part of our document checks before departure either to or from the US, we need to see the General Declaration to ensure that is correct. After reviewing the document, I sign it and give it back to the Senior Cabin Crewmember so she/he can hand it over to the ground handler upon arrival.
As for the behavior of this captain, on the surface, it appears that all his oars were definitely not in the water.
I can't believe that anyone would divert a flight, especially and international flight, becuase a request was not complied with. I can't wait to hear the true spin on this event.
As for the behavior of this captain, on the surface, it appears that all his oars were definitely not in the water.
I can't believe that anyone would divert a flight, especially and international flight, becuase a request was not complied with. I can't wait to hear the true spin on this event.
Respect for Captain ?
747 Freighter Captain offered a choice of crew meal for the next day, chose not to have crew menu as offered, could he please just have a roast beef sandwich ? No problem he was told.
Next day despatcher telephoned by ATC and asked status of freighter ? Gone said despatcher, departed about 30 mins ago. No said tower, still on the ramp. Despatcher attended aircraft, plugged in a headset and talked to crew, gotta problem ? Yes said the Captain, I haven't got my roast beef sandwich !
True story, many, many years ago.
747 Freighter Captain offered a choice of crew meal for the next day, chose not to have crew menu as offered, could he please just have a roast beef sandwich ? No problem he was told.
Next day despatcher telephoned by ATC and asked status of freighter ? Gone said despatcher, departed about 30 mins ago. No said tower, still on the ramp. Despatcher attended aircraft, plugged in a headset and talked to crew, gotta problem ? Yes said the Captain, I haven't got my roast beef sandwich !
True story, many, many years ago.
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Maybe a case of the straw and the camels back ?
Something started between them earlier in the trip and then niggle, niggle, niggle, pause, explode .........
I recognise the pattern from when I am not on good diplomatic relations with Mrs Mac and she wants to wind me up, she lights the blue touch paper and then stands back all innocent when the explosion happens.
Just a thought..
Something started between them earlier in the trip and then niggle, niggle, niggle, pause, explode .........
I recognise the pattern from when I am not on good diplomatic relations with Mrs Mac and she wants to wind me up, she lights the blue touch paper and then stands back all innocent when the explosion happens.
Just a thought..