Would you risk money going "Professional" CPL/ME/IR/JOC with a Restricted Medical....
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Would you risk money going "Professional" CPL/ME/IR/JOC with a Restricted Medical....
As I stare at the endless Invoices for flying hours and crunch the numbers for every item I have purchased to stage 1 including pens, paperclips, maps, fuel blah blaah... and flight time... I had the thought.. "When did this flying 
get so expensive?!
Even more depressing was the number crunching and realisation that this still doesn't get any cheaper for the "Professional Phase". Cost of Hours Building - circa 10k, CPL - circa 7k-8k, IR -circa 15k, ME circa -kidney! +10% buffer... my other kidney!
And there taunting me on the table from the corner of my eye was my Class 1 Medical, in section XIII: Limitations.... emblazoned with those 3 letters "OML".. Valid only as or with qualified co-pilot (Applies only to Class 1 Privileges).
Awaken the devil and his taunts to chants of "You haven't got a hope in hell compared to ALL the other unrestricted Class 1 Pilots who will also be searching for the elusive "first job"... Single Pilot Operations: Not Applicable.
Bye Bye.. Flight Instruction, Air Taxi, Glider Towing or any sustainable wage for single pilot ops and severally restricting me from trying to build the experience required to even stand a chance of getting a job and being "different from the crowd".
Do I risk it and hope that I knock on the right doors? for Multi Crew or save my 2K that I am about to fork out for the ATPL's.. and the rest of the CPL/IR/ME/ etc
Perhaps I'm being cynical or as I prefer to look at it a realist.. Either that or go forwards on a wing and a prayer for the "peace of mind" that I tried... Albeit at a potential cost of another £30k!
Answers/Advice on a postcard most welcome.
get so expensive?!Even more depressing was the number crunching and realisation that this
still doesn't get any cheaper for the "Professional Phase". Cost of Hours Building - circa 10k, CPL - circa 7k-8k, IR -circa 15k, ME circa -kidney! +10% buffer... my other kidney!And there taunting me on the table from the corner of my eye was my Class 1 Medical, in section XIII: Limitations.... emblazoned with those 3 letters "OML".. Valid only as or with qualified co-pilot (Applies only to Class 1 Privileges).
Awaken the devil and his taunts to chants of "You haven't got a hope in hell compared to ALL the other unrestricted Class 1 Pilots who will also be searching for the elusive "first job"... Single Pilot Operations: Not Applicable.
Bye Bye.. Flight Instruction, Air Taxi, Glider Towing or any sustainable wage for single pilot ops and severally restricting me from trying to build the experience required to even stand a chance of getting a job and being "different from the crowd".
Do I risk it and hope that I knock on the right doors? for Multi Crew or save my 2K that I am about to fork out for the ATPL's.. and the rest of the CPL/IR/ME/ etc
Perhaps I'm being cynical or as I prefer to look at it a realist.. Either that or go forwards on a wing and a prayer for the "peace of mind" that I tried... Albeit at a potential cost of another £30k!
Answers/Advice on a postcard most welcome.
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Really sorry to hear about your OML.
I think you must first find out from the CAA whether you would be able to hold a Single Pilot Multi-Engine IR with that limitation. If not, then only an MPL is possible for you commercially; tagged onto an airline scheme.
Of course as you say, you can keep enjoying yourself with your current PPL even though you are restricted for Class1.
And btw, you can paradrop/ tow gliders with a PPL.
I think you must first find out from the CAA whether you would be able to hold a Single Pilot Multi-Engine IR with that limitation. If not, then only an MPL is possible for you commercially; tagged onto an airline scheme.
Of course as you say, you can keep enjoying yourself with your current PPL even though you are restricted for Class1.
And btw, you can paradrop/ tow gliders with a PPL.
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Well my "Class 1 other commercial operations" is valid and expires in December this year and can be renewed.
The "Class 1 single pilot commercial operations carry passengers" is marked as "Not Applicable".
I am hoping someone with knowledge of the regs might be able to answer this question.. The last time I posed the question to the UK CAA Medical department they said "take it up with your FTO"... a bit abruptly.
Might be worth speaking to personnel licensing?
The "Class 1 single pilot commercial operations carry passengers" is marked as "Not Applicable".
I think you must first find out from the CAA whether you would be able to hold a Single Pilot Multi-Engine IR with that limitation. If not, then only an MPL is possible for you commercially; tagged onto an airline scheme.
Might be worth speaking to personnel licensing?
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Is it permanent OML or is there a chance to get it removed after a number of years? I have heard of people having had concussion from accidents etc being given an OML with the chance to be reassessed and have it removed after 5/10 years.
In theory of course the OML will not stop you being able to do airline work as it is by nature multi pilot ops. I have seen a few advertised jobs that require a medical with no limitations, but more often than not this is not mentioned. Whether or not it would matter to an employer when decided who to hire etc probably will depend on the person hiring.
One thing to think about is the possibility that instructor may not need to be ruled out. A PPL can instruct on a class 2 medical so you should be able to instruct that way. Whether or not the OML restriction causes further requirements I do not know, but might be worth looking in to.
In theory of course the OML will not stop you being able to do airline work as it is by nature multi pilot ops. I have seen a few advertised jobs that require a medical with no limitations, but more often than not this is not mentioned. Whether or not it would matter to an employer when decided who to hire etc probably will depend on the person hiring.
One thing to think about is the possibility that instructor may not need to be ruled out. A PPL can instruct on a class 2 medical so you should be able to instruct that way. Whether or not the OML restriction causes further requirements I do not know, but might be worth looking in to.
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On the subject of MPLs, CTC have just advertised a new intake for EasyJet MPL candidates. It would be worth applying for this in your case because the likelihood of employment is higher - effectively they're pre-recruiting you. And because it's an MPL, your OML would be immaterial.
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@OhNoCb
There has been no mention of any future reassessment (although I have not asked the question directly). The medical is simply marked with OML and ILA.
I suspect because it is a none progressive visual field defect it will stay on for life unless I am told otherwise and may decide to write to the CAA.
There is no concrete guidance on pursuing CPL/IR/ME and the nitty gritty details of such in CAP804.
For example.. if you hold a Class 1 with OML. Can you still start the CPL/IR AND take the skills test with a Class 1 OML AND hold the license?
CPL is single pilot operations which is not applicable in my case.. but in order to take the Skills Test if I pass it will be marked as P.1 or PIC in my logbook and if I fail as P.u/t.. so where does this leave me?
You can train, get the license but NOT exercise the privilige of single pilot ops? No definitive response.
The point which Maxed Out makes is also what I am trying to find the answer too!
For FI work.. it would be on a Class 2 Medical and on my PPL license not my CPL which is "Not Applicable" so I could rack up the hours but not be paid as that falls under Class 1 Single Op and CPL privileges...?
Aaccording to my FTO anyway...
Trying to make a cunning plan but looking for any guidance in the standards of cap documents and I can't find any on how this is treated and what is allowable etc.
Hope that made sense!
There has been no mention of any future reassessment (although I have not asked the question directly). The medical is simply marked with OML and ILA.
I suspect because it is a none progressive visual field defect it will stay on for life unless I am told otherwise and may decide to write to the CAA.
There is no concrete guidance on pursuing CPL/IR/ME and the nitty gritty details of such in CAP804.
For example.. if you hold a Class 1 with OML. Can you still start the CPL/IR AND take the skills test with a Class 1 OML AND hold the license?
CPL is single pilot operations which is not applicable in my case.. but in order to take the Skills Test if I pass it will be marked as P.1 or PIC in my logbook and if I fail as P.u/t.. so where does this leave me?
You can train, get the license but NOT exercise the privilige of single pilot ops? No definitive response.
The point which Maxed Out makes is also what I am trying to find the answer too!
For FI work.. it would be on a Class 2 Medical and on my PPL license not my CPL which is "Not Applicable" so I could rack up the hours but not be paid as that falls under Class 1 Single Op and CPL privileges...?
Aaccording to my FTO anyway...
Trying to make a cunning plan but looking for any guidance in the standards of cap documents and I can't find any on how this is treated and what is allowable etc.
Hope that made sense!
Last edited by Scoobster; 15th Oct 2014 at 23:55.
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FWJC,
Looking at the CTC requirements there is mention on "Unrestricted EASA Class 1 Medical"
Also I have a BSc and MSc. But in my younger days did not get the A-C in Maths.. So I guess my application for both of the above will probably get binned!
Do they honestly still look at high school results.. over any other?
Looking at the CTC requirements there is mention on "Unrestricted EASA Class 1 Medical"
Also I have a BSc and MSc. But in my younger days did not get the A-C in Maths.. So I guess my application for both of the above will probably get binned!
Do they honestly still look at high school results.. over any other?
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I think instructing is not classed as single ops with a passenger (is a student really a passenger or an operating crew member under training?). Either way a PPL with FI rating can instruct and be remunerated for it (if they have CPL knowledge I think its termed) on a class 2 medical.
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OML
I've had varying advice on this issue, ranging from 'forget it' to 'go for it'.
There are many commercial airline pilots with OMLs, but almost all of these will have got the OML after starting work.
With regards to CTC et al, you have to ask them. The law is unclear here, you can't discriminate against someone because of their age, so why is it OK to stipulate an OML with no restrictions when the CAA/EASA have given someone a Class 1, albeit with restrictions. An OML covers a vast range of conditions.
Also, I know of someone with an OML about to start their FI course at a big FTO in southern England with a view to instructing at CPL level.
So lots of hope, but as ever in aviation, there will be some hurdles to jump.
There are many commercial airline pilots with OMLs, but almost all of these will have got the OML after starting work.
With regards to CTC et al, you have to ask them. The law is unclear here, you can't discriminate against someone because of their age, so why is it OK to stipulate an OML with no restrictions when the CAA/EASA have given someone a Class 1, albeit with restrictions. An OML covers a vast range of conditions.
Also, I know of someone with an OML about to start their FI course at a big FTO in southern England with a view to instructing at CPL level.
So lots of hope, but as ever in aviation, there will be some hurdles to jump.
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I've got recent experience dealing with the CAA on this subject.
I’d been flying for around 15 years, and held a class 1 for about 3 years. I’d been job hunting for about a year or so after finishing my training (CPL/MEIR/JOC/MCC) when the CAA pulled my medical completely for nearly 8 months - I couldn’t even fly on a PPL. After 1000s of pounds worth of medical tests I eventually got handed the OML medical back.
Shortly afterwards, I stopped pursuing the flying career. And I kind of wish it had happened before I spent 40k on training.
My thoughts:
1. The industry is competitive enough without having a restricted medical which most people don’t have. I'd been job hunting before the OML restriction and it was tough.
In reality, it probably wouldn’t matter to airline interviewers/testers/trainers that you have an OML, its more likely to be simple HR selection criteria/terminology which stops you applying i.e. the term “Unrestricted Class 1 Medical” is put on the advert rather than just “Class 1”.
So IF a job does come up you cant even apply.
2. The industry is unstable enough without the additional prospect of the losing your licence over CAA medical red tape. I had a real battle with the CAA who wouldnt budge - even with leading experts contradicting them.
The airline industry is extremely unstable, the risk of reduncancy is high, and having seen how easy it is to lose the licence at the whim of the CAA, it’s not an industry I’d be comfortable starting out it with an OML.
Yes they can instruct. But they'll be instructing on their PPL.
Class 1 OML means you must be multicrew to operate on your CPL. A student or pax does not count as crew. (That's direct from the CAA).
MEIR is fine as it’s a rating which has nothing to do with your class 1 medical. You can do this on a PPL.
Good luck….
I’d been flying for around 15 years, and held a class 1 for about 3 years. I’d been job hunting for about a year or so after finishing my training (CPL/MEIR/JOC/MCC) when the CAA pulled my medical completely for nearly 8 months - I couldn’t even fly on a PPL. After 1000s of pounds worth of medical tests I eventually got handed the OML medical back.
Shortly afterwards, I stopped pursuing the flying career. And I kind of wish it had happened before I spent 40k on training.
My thoughts:
1. The industry is competitive enough without having a restricted medical which most people don’t have. I'd been job hunting before the OML restriction and it was tough.
In reality, it probably wouldn’t matter to airline interviewers/testers/trainers that you have an OML, its more likely to be simple HR selection criteria/terminology which stops you applying i.e. the term “Unrestricted Class 1 Medical” is put on the advert rather than just “Class 1”.
So IF a job does come up you cant even apply.
2. The industry is unstable enough without the additional prospect of the losing your licence over CAA medical red tape. I had a real battle with the CAA who wouldnt budge - even with leading experts contradicting them.
The airline industry is extremely unstable, the risk of reduncancy is high, and having seen how easy it is to lose the licence at the whim of the CAA, it’s not an industry I’d be comfortable starting out it with an OML.
Also, I know of someone with an OML about to start their FI course at a big FTO in southern England with a view to instructing at CPL level.
Class 1 OML means you must be multicrew to operate on your CPL. A student or pax does not count as crew. (That's direct from the CAA).
MEIR is fine as it’s a rating which has nothing to do with your class 1 medical. You can do this on a PPL.
Good luck….
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I had a chat with someone in a prominent position today at an FTO.
The advice was:
* Yes - You can be issued with a CPL/IR/ME as you have a Class 1 Medical. The issue is not with being able to get a CPL/IR/ME but with the pure "OML" side of things.
* You cannot instruct from ab initio for PPL unless the trainee has completed their first solo navigation flight after which they can handle the controls as PIC. In which case the student will pretty much be at the end of their course anyway.
* That would only leave Glider Towing/Aerial Work which is equally hard to find. Alternatively he mentioned the most easiest route would be in a Multi Crew environment for a foreign carrier such as in Indonesia, South Asia etc to obtain the flight experience required for operators.
* Foreign operators may have different Medical requirements compared to EASA.
Would it be somewhat easier with a foreign operator?
I am a dual national of a South Asian Country.. Probably not the safest but there must be some turboprops kicking about
* You can however instruct on your Class 2 Medical and PPL only for an those candidates taking an the LAPL course.
Unless you remove the OML it will be even more of a challenge - depending on how strong willed one is!
Effectively a 40k-50k gamble.
I also put a call into CTC today who mentioned they had an applicant for the MPL before and it went over to the Selection Team so he would come back to me with a definitive answer.
The advice was:
* Yes - You can be issued with a CPL/IR/ME as you have a Class 1 Medical. The issue is not with being able to get a CPL/IR/ME but with the pure "OML" side of things.
* You cannot instruct from ab initio for PPL unless the trainee has completed their first solo navigation flight after which they can handle the controls as PIC. In which case the student will pretty much be at the end of their course anyway.
* That would only leave Glider Towing/Aerial Work which is equally hard to find. Alternatively he mentioned the most easiest route would be in a Multi Crew environment for a foreign carrier such as in Indonesia, South Asia etc to obtain the flight experience required for operators.
* Foreign operators may have different Medical requirements compared to EASA.
Would it be somewhat easier with a foreign operator?
I am a dual national of a South Asian Country.. Probably not the safest but there must be some turboprops kicking about
* You can however instruct on your Class 2 Medical and PPL only for an those candidates taking an the LAPL course.
Unless you remove the OML it will be even more of a challenge - depending on how strong willed one is!
Effectively a 40k-50k gamble.
I also put a call into CTC today who mentioned they had an applicant for the MPL before and it went over to the Selection Team so he would come back to me with a definitive answer.
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* You cannot instruct from ab initio for PPL unless the trainee has completed their first solo navigation flight after which they can handle the controls as PIC. In which case the student will pretty much be at the end of their course anyway.
I would be interested to know how that restriction has been established, I don't know whether it is correct or not but given that the OML applies only to a class one medical, and you can instruct for PPL on a class 2, how does it work? You could let your class one lapse and then you don't have an OML so how can it be enforced?
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You may be able to get an FAA licence without a restriction following a successful flight test. I have an EASA Class 1 with an OML but my FAA Class 1 is unrestricted (it has a Statement Of Demonstrated Ability or "SODA" attached to it). An FAA licence might be OK if you wanted to work in Asia.
I don't think your FTO contact has got it right. You can instruct ab-initio as a PPL with a Class 2 medical - don't know about your medical but mine gives me unrestricted Class 2 privileges. I suspect (s)he's also wrong about Aerial Work - if you are being paid you need a Class 1 so you couldn't do it single pilot.
I don't think your FTO contact has got it right. You can instruct ab-initio as a PPL with a Class 2 medical - don't know about your medical but mine gives me unrestricted Class 2 privileges. I suspect (s)he's also wrong about Aerial Work - if you are being paid you need a Class 1 so you couldn't do it single pilot.
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@thisismyusername
Prior to getting my EASA Medical and some years back I took an FAA Class 1 Medical - which also required a Medical Flight Test. But I settled on the hope that I might be better off with trying to go the "EASA" way.
I suppose I could now get a SODA by taking a check ride and a flight test? The last time I checked it was a 3 month notice period to the FSDO.
I have Unrestricted Class 2 - I'm confused about this part - I can instruct on my Class 2 Medical for PPL ONLY AND BE PAID FOR IT?
Is that statement correct??
Regarding Aerial Work - Photography as he put it - He said in normal instances the "Photographer" is ALSO CREW and not a PAX - therefore you can be paid because most aerial work is 2 crew...
Not sure how true that is.
CAP 804 - Pages 462 - 466 - Table 1 and Table 2 - Do not really shed any light on the matter!
You may be able to get an FAA licence without a restriction following a successful flight test. I have an EASA Class 1 with an OML but my FAA Class 1 is unrestricted (it has a Statement Of Demonstrated Ability or "SODA" attached to it). An FAA licence might be OK if you wanted to work in Asia.
I suppose I could now get a SODA by taking a check ride and a flight test? The last time I checked it was a 3 month notice period to the FSDO.
I don't think your FTO contact has got it right. You can instruct ab-initio as a PPL with a Class 2 medical - don't know about your medical but mine gives me unrestricted Class 2 privileges. I suspect (s)he's also wrong about Aerial Work - if you are being paid you need a Class 1 so you couldn't do it single pilot.
Is that statement correct??
Regarding Aerial Work - Photography as he put it - He said in normal instances the "Photographer" is ALSO CREW and not a PAX - therefore you can be paid because most aerial work is 2 crew...
Not sure how true that is.
CAP 804 - Pages 462 - 466 - Table 1 and Table 2 - Do not really shed any light on the matter!
Last edited by Scoobster; 17th Oct 2014 at 10:10.
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I have Unrestricted Class 2 - I'm confused about this part - I can instruct on my Class 2 Medical for PPL ONLY AND BE PAID FOR IT?
Regarding Aerial Work - Photography as he put it - He said in normal instances the "Photographer" is ALSO CREW and not a PAX - therefore you can be paid because most aerial work is 2 crew...
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Sorry to say mate but I wouldn't spend another penny on commercial flight training, unless you have a clear and absolute and definite and guaranteed way that you can get straight into a multi crew environment immediately out of flying school.
It's a hell of a lot of money to risk otherwise, considering that basically all of the normal means of hour building will be unavailable to you.
Sucks, but not as much as wasting the money would suck ...
It's a hell of a lot of money to risk otherwise, considering that basically all of the normal means of hour building will be unavailable to you.
Sucks, but not as much as wasting the money would suck ...
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It's a hell of a lot of money to risk otherwise, considering that basically all of the normal means of hour building will be unavailable to you.
Of course this would all be SEP time and not sure how useful this would be in comparison to probably valuable multi crew building time.
It will of course always be a lot of risk as I don't have 50k sitting in my back pocket! But even for those with an unrestricted medical it will always be a risk, i guess it depends on how "risk averse" one is.
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Sorry I haven't read this whole thread.
I have an OML and have finished all my training in July via the modular route. Waiting on my first job, but haven't had anyone worried about the OML who I've talked to, it's actually quite common I believe.
For what it's worth, essentially an OML is is an unrestricted Class 1 in multi crew environments.
I have an OML and have finished all my training in July via the modular route. Waiting on my first job, but haven't had anyone worried about the OML who I've talked to, it's actually quite common I believe.
For what it's worth, essentially an OML is is an unrestricted Class 1 in multi crew environments.
