Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions"
PPRuNe forums are useful up to a point but there are so many people here with little agendas - I'd say if you want to hear about any particular school, then talk to someone credible (ie has attended, or used to work at the place).
I wonder how much "real" you'll get by browsing these forums! Also bear in mind, people with negative feedback are generally more active than those who were happy with their experiences.
My old flying instructor moved over to OAT recently and he seems to be happy there. I don't think instructors leaving is directly related to employment conditions. Many instructors only teach to build hours before moving onto the airlines.
Go check-out the place and have a chat with the instructors and students. The landing fee is only £6!!!
I agree with a lot of what has been said about this forum and it's varied uses. I was in your position 10 months ago.I chose to go to OAT - It was highly recomended to me by a friend/helicopter pilot I will not give any information about it for fear of contradicting my first sentence but will officially invite you to pop into the pilot's lounge when you have finished with your "formal forum" with OAT staff. Alternatively, hang out around the smoking areas or the picnic tables by the exit to the aircraft. There will be many of us hanging around who will answer your "real" questions without bias - or just a friendly chat!! Yes there are horror stories and some of them are based on actual events (loosely). You'll hear the facts from people who experienced the good and the bad. None of them will try the hard sell on you. Some may even try and put you off. From experience, this will happen at most of the training centres around.
Thanks very much, I've booked to attend the November APP seminar and hopefully all will be revealed to me then. Can anyone recommend any similar insititutions worth visiting? (Preferably around the South of England...?)
I think a lot of what has been said is very true. Any large training organisation OAT, CTC, FTE etc is bound to have its enemies and when a company is as large as these it will never be able to please all of its customers all of the time. Best to just read up or go visit and see how you feel about the place.
I have my view on things although Iíve just got a date for an aptitude test for oxford. The thing that puts me of CTC is that I have to be 18 and have A levels which will be AUG next year which if Iím skilled enough I could have started my training already with Oxford. I can defer my entry to oxford for up to a year which means I can complete my A levels before I start training. I donít know if this is true with CTC, if anyone could inform me with this info PM me or summik. Iím also put of CTC because of the long wait before I can apply , although a year would be nice off the 2.3% chance of getting in compared to the 40%ish compared to oxford seems a better deal and turning down a good chance for a risk at something very slim I donít think it is worth it.
I did pop down to one of the seminars (Newcastle to Oxford is a long trip) and yea they run a business very professionally, as is the goal of most places. The facilities down there seem pleasant but I do not have anything to compare it with.
I have to disagree almost entirely. The intergated Vs Modular route has been argued to the bone, but your post irratated me somewhat. Perhaps a lot of wanabees these days have 'blind' passion for flying and will go into something with their eyes closed tight, but your attitude appears to be the complete opposite. You seem to have taken no real information about what airlines want from Low hours, Ab initio pilots these days. I know for a fact that Ba City Express, who happened to recieve 1300 applications for a few position in two weeks, will take a recommended application direct form Oxford (Kidlington as you call it) bypasisng those 1300. And you only if it was from the integrated route. Similarly, Bmed (Formally British Mediterranean) Said a similar thing. They would look far more favourably on an applicant having completed an integrated training route than a Modular. To me, anybody who wants to enter the Airline world in the current political and economical climate with regards to Aviation should realise that at any moment, the market could hit a deep depression and we would be left with a large pool of trained pilots - with the same 'Blue book' and hours all wanting jobs. And who are those jobs going to go to? Applicants with a recommendation from a reputable FTO (Oxford for example) from an integrated route with a good groundschool passrate, first time flight test passes, MCC, and lets say a jet orientation course with around 40 hours on a 737 sim. Would you look at that, it just so happens that Oxford gives you exactly that. The groundschool instructors are fantastic for getting you good results in you ground exams, and similarly the flight instructors are great at getting you first time passes in you flight tests. This is no accident. The facility at this large FTO with more than 20 a/c and lots of students are second to none. And in my opinion, And it is an opinion (albeit educated), if you want the BEST CHANCE of getting a job at the end of your training, Go intergrated. More specifically, Go APP First officer with OAT.
Yes there are some airlines which express a preference for Integrated students. However, time and again, it has been retold how that they have neglected their espoused preference and hired a Modular guy. In addition there are many airlines that don't care how your first 180hrs were structured.
You also have to consider the fact that there is a great deal more to an aviation career than simply getting into a household name airline with 200hrs. A great many pilots out there in those airlines started in much smaller outfits and many of them positively abhor Integrated students who, as the schools themselves boast long and loud, have been trained specially for airline training and progression.
A further consideration to your recommendation of the most expensive Frzn ATPL course in the country is that some people just can't afford it. Or that to stretch to it would leave them dangerously indebted.
There simply is no 'best' option. Just different ones with differing pros and cons. As debated ad infinitum on these forums.
If indeed there was another Sept11th event tomorrow then ALL 200hr aspiring pilots would be knackered. Arguably it is better to be in that unhappy state owing £40k than £70k.
I'm sure you found the groundschool instructors fantastic. As are the ones at many other Modular schools. And at a substantial discount.
As I said in my post with which you disagreed. I believe I would prefer, were I to be starting out again, to be at an excellent Modular school with less than 10 aircraft and an instructor to student ratio of 1:2. I have come to this opinion after years spent in the flying training business at both an Integrated and Modular school.
The large FTO's can seem like sausage factories and the aircraft and your instructor slots are harder to come by than rocking horse manure.
The fact that some airline express a preference which they sometimes don't stick to is the slightly intangible reward you get for the very tangible higher fees.
So where these guys at CTC just on standard integrated courses and BA, First Choice, EJ, and Thomas Cook came along and 'affiliated' the whole class? And some of them had only been at CTC for a month or two?
"if you want the BEST CHANCE of getting a job at the end of your training, Go intergrated. More specifically, Go APP First officer with OAT"
Yes true (sort of) See you;ve been brain washed too. Who gets the best first time IR/CPL results? Who gets the higest ATPL Theory results? Might just add that CTC does not provide and form of GS, they just do it along side their training. They select people who can do two things at the sametime, and well - as opposed to the chumps (40% selection rate for the APP isn;t it, compared to 2% at CTC) at OAT who cant even do well even AFTER full time GS!
CTC defo the way forward, and no i;m not on it, and yes I failed the selction
Think you are right A Miller, also agree with Wee Weasley Welshman. From talking to pilots that I know I think many airlines do not care where they pilots come from, as long as they get the right type of people they will take guys/girls from intergrated and modular courses and dont really care what school they came from.
Oxford although are no doubt a very good school are also very good at marketing/brainwashing and have many people under the impression that if you train with OAT, you will get a job at the end of it all (although they may help you to find one). I know a guy who did APP at OAT tried for 2 years to get a job with no sucesses until he did the CTC ATP programme.
This guy fly's for Monarch now on the bus fleet after the CTC ATP scheme though I know he did do his fATPL training with OAT. The conversation was a while ago so I may have mistaken the course that he was on/or the number of years he was searching for a job.
Going back to employment statistics I know that CTC can make the claim that all their wings cadets have been placed with an airline (even after Sept 11 the holding pool was empty in about 6 months) and whilst OAT may have a good record of helping/finding cadets jobs their record is by no meens 100%.
Although in any course or airline sponsorship a job is never guaranteed!