Com Question
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We can all learn something new from even the most routine of questions and answers, and if it makes for safer pilots then it can only be a good thing and the more topics that are covered the better.
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No problem Crash One
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Simon,
Welcome both to PPRune and aircraft owner$hip !
I can't answer the question, but can comment on PPRune as a relative newbie.
When posting on this forum, it is like walking into a bar on a Friday night at 21.30 and saying 'I've just bought a [delete as appropriate] Porsche/Ferrari/Lambourghini/Ford Focus. Anyone got any views on that ?'
You know what will happen in that situation - If you're lucky someone will know someone on the design/testing team, someone will work for a dealership, someone will have rebuilt one from scratch, someone will have driven one for 20 years. Then again, someone will have watched a Top Gear review and will base their response on what Clarkson said, and someone will have known someone who's second cousin once removed's best friend's sister in law had one and experienced nothing but trouble. And that doesn't count the drunk at the end of the bar...
Not suggesting that any PPRuners fall into the latter category BTW
In real life we learn to filter out the true experts to ignore the bull
, PPRune is no different.
Also worth bearing in mind that in PPRune, just as in real life, sometimes the best advice will come from the grumpy old git halfway through his second pint who has seen it all before.
Lastly, no matter what you fly (and I speak as a Cessna 150 owner !) you will find warm welcomes and positive comments on your plane wherever you have the privilege of landing.
Good luck, many happy landings with your new toy.
Welcome both to PPRune and aircraft owner$hip !
I can't answer the question, but can comment on PPRune as a relative newbie.
When posting on this forum, it is like walking into a bar on a Friday night at 21.30 and saying 'I've just bought a [delete as appropriate] Porsche/Ferrari/Lambourghini/Ford Focus. Anyone got any views on that ?'
You know what will happen in that situation - If you're lucky someone will know someone on the design/testing team, someone will work for a dealership, someone will have rebuilt one from scratch, someone will have driven one for 20 years. Then again, someone will have watched a Top Gear review and will base their response on what Clarkson said, and someone will have known someone who's second cousin once removed's best friend's sister in law had one and experienced nothing but trouble. And that doesn't count the drunk at the end of the bar...
Not suggesting that any PPRuners fall into the latter category BTW
In real life we learn to filter out the true experts to ignore the bull
, PPRune is no different.Also worth bearing in mind that in PPRune, just as in real life, sometimes the best advice will come from the grumpy old git halfway through his second pint who has seen it all before.
Lastly, no matter what you fly (and I speak as a Cessna 150 owner !) you will find warm welcomes and positive comments on your plane wherever you have the privilege of landing.
Good luck, many happy landings with your new toy.
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Yep, this true but I find that in bar you can land one on anyone that's particularly obnoxious 
Its a bit like road rage, some guys are very 'brave' when they think they can get away with it and say things they would not have the nerve to say if it was F2F
Off for a cheeky flight now whilst the weather is good.
S
Its a bit like road rage, some guys are very 'brave' when they think they can get away with it and say things they would not have the nerve to say if it was F2F
Off for a cheeky flight now whilst the weather is good.
S
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Simon T
Welcome!
As has been mentioned all radios will have to be upgraded (replaced) to 8.33 by the end of 2017. Several of the new 8.33 radios (eg Trig) have built in intercoms. Assuming you are on the G reg C of A you could well be better off changing the radio now and getting the intercom included.
Had you been on a Permit to fly you could have done all the work yourself and just got it inspected and signed off.
Rod1
Welcome!
As has been mentioned all radios will have to be upgraded (replaced) to 8.33 by the end of 2017. Several of the new 8.33 radios (eg Trig) have built in intercoms. Assuming you are on the G reg C of A you could well be better off changing the radio now and getting the intercom included.
Had you been on a Permit to fly you could have done all the work yourself and just got it inspected and signed off.
Rod1
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they think they can get away with it and say things they would not have the nerve to say if it was F2F
Happily, unlike anonymous traffic, where there's never a cop when you need one, the mods are watching here...
Enjoy your flight Simon, my nice weather was yesterday, I landed on the ice of the local frozen lake. Last night and this morning, 7 inches of snow, so that's that until I plow my runway....
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Just bought a plane eh?
My advice - start saving and don't believe anything the salesman told you!
Dont skimp on avionics - they might just get you out the pooh one day. (ok ok so an intercom is a "luxury" and can be done cheaply :-))
I just spent £22+k on new avionics for my PA28 I bought in October 2014. Full digital IFR kit, new AI, new Intercom, new Audio box, New Garmin 430W new Garman flip-flop com/nav, new digital transponder, new DME, repositioned ADF, new headphone jacks in all 4 places etc etc etc... Avionics almost worth more than the plane now!
Bournemouth Avionics has my vote for anything you need Com replacement related. Brian did a great job.
Now I'm all 8.33khz compat, I can trust my instruments (instead of the failing old ones) and just need a second Altimeter (later in the year) and then fully airways compatible
Ownership is great, but sure is not cheap
My advice - start saving and don't believe anything the salesman told you!
Dont skimp on avionics - they might just get you out the pooh one day. (ok ok so an intercom is a "luxury" and can be done cheaply :-))
I just spent £22+k on new avionics for my PA28 I bought in October 2014. Full digital IFR kit, new AI, new Intercom, new Audio box, New Garmin 430W new Garman flip-flop com/nav, new digital transponder, new DME, repositioned ADF, new headphone jacks in all 4 places etc etc etc... Avionics almost worth more than the plane now!
Bournemouth Avionics has my vote for anything you need Com replacement related. Brian did a great job.
Now I'm all 8.33khz compat, I can trust my instruments (instead of the failing old ones) and just need a second Altimeter (later in the year) and then fully airways compatible
Ownership is great, but sure is not cheap
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GEBEZ
I'm in the process of upgrading my panel as funds allow, if I may ask you some questions regarding what drove certain decisions,
1. Why a NEW 430 as opposed to its replacement the 650.
2. Is the COM part of the 430 8.33 spacing ready/equipped.
3. Why keep the ADF ? Do you use it much ?
4. Is a second altimeter mandatory for the airways , does the waas equipped GPS (with Baro)not count as a substitute
Thanks
I'm in the process of upgrading my panel as funds allow, if I may ask you some questions regarding what drove certain decisions,
1. Why a NEW 430 as opposed to its replacement the 650.
2. Is the COM part of the 430 8.33 spacing ready/equipped.
3. Why keep the ADF ? Do you use it much ?
4. Is a second altimeter mandatory for the airways , does the waas equipped GPS (with Baro)not count as a substitute
Thanks
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Its G B E B Z NOT GEBEZ
1) Cost, and have you ever tried using a touch screen in slight turbulence? I decided I did not want a touch screen and that swayed the decision. The cost is not much different nowadays.
2) Yes
3) I like to, I have an IR(R) (IMC) Rating, I have used the ADF a few times for fun at Yeovil, and for procedural ILS at Bournemouth. Im sad I know, I enjoy doing this kind of thing for fun
4) Im not sure to be honest. I would need to check. But then again a second static sourced Baro Altimeter is never a bad thing to have
Im doing my ATPL(A) for fun (!!) so wanted a plane I could trust and enjoy.
NOT GEBEZ 1) Cost, and have you ever tried using a touch screen in slight turbulence?
I decided I did not want a touch screen and that swayed the decision. The cost is not much different nowadays.2) Yes
3) I like to, I have an IR(R) (IMC) Rating, I have used the ADF a few times for fun at Yeovil, and for procedural ILS at Bournemouth. Im sad I know, I enjoy doing this kind of thing for fun
4) Im not sure to be honest. I would need to check. But then again a second static sourced Baro Altimeter is never a bad thing to have
Im doing my ATPL(A) for fun (!!) so wanted a plane I could trust and enjoy.
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G B E B Z
Thanks for the reply, as I head down the path of equipping for IFR it interesting to hear the logic behind the panel config, especially from someone whose written such an eye watering cheque,
I also recently completed my IFR and Commercial rating and am starting my flight instructor rating training in a fortnight, all for fun also.
Re pic, is the unit below the 430 a 250 gps? Was that in the panel originally or was it an add during the upgrade
Thanks for the reply, as I head down the path of equipping for IFR it interesting to hear the logic behind the panel config, especially from someone whose written such an eye watering cheque,
I also recently completed my IFR and Commercial rating and am starting my flight instructor rating training in a fortnight, all for fun also.
Re pic, is the unit below the 430 a 250 gps? Was that in the panel originally or was it an add during the upgrade
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GNC255A NAV/COM Flip Flop
GTX328 Mode S Transponder
Before the upgrade it had a KNS80 RNAV box.
The only thing still in the panel from before the upgrade - but moved sideways - is the ADF.
BEFORE photo: http://cl.ly/image/2R071I232c0h
Note the old kit was also NON FM Immune - which means pointless and cannot be used for approaches in IMC - like I said, never trust a salesman when he says "fully ifr capable" cause he doesn't have a clue!
GTX328 Mode S Transponder
Before the upgrade it had a KNS80 RNAV box.
The only thing still in the panel from before the upgrade - but moved sideways - is the ADF.
BEFORE photo: http://cl.ly/image/2R071I232c0h
Note the old kit was also NON FM Immune - which means pointless and cannot be used for approaches in IMC - like I said, never trust a salesman when he says "fully ifr capable" cause he doesn't have a clue!
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Piperboy
You seem obsessed with replacing everything with GPS data, over reliance on one system is unwise as a single point failure could result in no IFR approach capability.
If the aircraft was set up without DME or ADF the failure of partial failure of the GPS system ( RAIM failing to make IFR quality) would severely limit your options.
Almost all ILS approaches in Europe have ditched the markers and require DME as do most VOR approaches, at the very least no DME increases the MDA of VOR & NDB aproaches.
I know that some airfields are able to give you radar fixes to do the system error checks at the FAF but these are few and far between.
My view is that the Avionic set up in GBEBZ has some very clear thinking behind it and has the maximum system redundancy for the least cost. ( also all the equipment will integrate fully with the G500 system should the future bring a glass cockpit upgrade).
My opinion is not based on the " shooting approaches for fun" point of view. It is based on the point of veiw of someone who has to do this on a daily basis taking into account what I would want fitted to the aircraft.
The only comment about equipment choice I would make is that the future product support of the GTN650/750 is likely to be better however this potential problem is ten to fifteen years in the future at the very minimum.
If the aircraft was set up without DME or ADF the failure of partial failure of the GPS system ( RAIM failing to make IFR quality) would severely limit your options.
Almost all ILS approaches in Europe have ditched the markers and require DME as do most VOR approaches, at the very least no DME increases the MDA of VOR & NDB aproaches.
I know that some airfields are able to give you radar fixes to do the system error checks at the FAF but these are few and far between.
My view is that the Avionic set up in GBEBZ has some very clear thinking behind it and has the maximum system redundancy for the least cost. ( also all the equipment will integrate fully with the G500 system should the future bring a glass cockpit upgrade).
My opinion is not based on the " shooting approaches for fun" point of view. It is based on the point of veiw of someone who has to do this on a daily basis taking into account what I would want fitted to the aircraft.
The only comment about equipment choice I would make is that the future product support of the GTN650/750 is likely to be better however this potential problem is ten to fifteen years in the future at the very minimum.
Last edited by A and C; 4th Jan 2015 at 08:03.
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My view is that the Avionic set up in GBEBZ has some very clear thinking behind it and has the maximum system redundancy for the least cost.
To be honest, I also have iPad, Skydemon (who doesnt!) and a iPhone in the plane should the worse day happen to me.
The reason I had to add another DME box is that the old KNS80RNAV box used to have the DME as part of that, so when removing that I needed to install a new DME or lose that facility - DME is still very much used in aviation (even bigger planes use it).
Even "shooting approaches for fun" requires reliable trustworthy kit
I take your point about the long term support - but think that might be someone else's problem in 10 years
self fit i-com
A simple two place i-com is the solution (plug in)
They have an internal batt or can be run off external supply.
No need for them to look out of place or messy with velcro and tie wraps.
HM supplies or even e-bay
Always nice to have a radio independent of all other equipment,as in this rather cluttered world clear reliable comms no bad thing.
PP
They have an internal batt or can be run off external supply.
No need for them to look out of place or messy with velcro and tie wraps.
HM supplies or even e-bay
Always nice to have a radio independent of all other equipment,as in this rather cluttered world clear reliable comms no bad thing.
PP
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GBEBZ
The bigger aircraft use DME as part of the system redundancy the Boeing 737-800 has five !
Two are crew controlled, the other three search out the best DME stations for position fixing ( data from all five is used) this is part of the way that the FMC assures the navigation quality of the two GPS units and maintains the system accuracy when the GPS system quality falls below IFR limits.
What the Avionic fit in GBEBZ enables you to do is exactly the same ( if a little less automatic) you can continue IFR flight safely if the GPS fails.
Two are crew controlled, the other three search out the best DME stations for position fixing ( data from all five is used) this is part of the way that the FMC assures the navigation quality of the two GPS units and maintains the system accuracy when the GPS system quality falls below IFR limits.
What the Avionic fit in GBEBZ enables you to do is exactly the same ( if a little less automatic) you can continue IFR flight safely if the GPS fails.
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Hi Rod1
Extended Squitter? Mainly because I don't believe I need one, well not until t least 2020
The GTX 328 is IFR certified for aircraft operating under 15,000 feet and with a true airspeed of under 175 knots. - thats me
Rod1 - I have read your 2009 forum posts over on the flyer.co.uk forums, banging on about not fitting the 328 and the CAA advising that then, and here we are in 2015 and there is still confusion over when/if ES is actually going to be needed for private/non-commercial flights outside airways
*If* and *when* needed I'll upgrade again - isnt that what life is all about :-)
Common Questions | ADS-B Academy | Garmin
What is an extended squitter? | ADS-B Academy | Garmin
Anyway I've hijacked this thread enough now, any further comments can be emailed me direct
Kindest regards
Phil.
Extended Squitter? Mainly because I don't believe I need one, well not until t least 2020
The GTX 328 is IFR certified for aircraft operating under 15,000 feet and with a true airspeed of under 175 knots. - thats me
Rod1 - I have read your 2009 forum posts over on the flyer.co.uk forums, banging on about not fitting the 328 and the CAA advising that then, and here we are in 2015 and there is still confusion over when/if ES is actually going to be needed for private/non-commercial flights outside airways
*If* and *when* needed I'll upgrade again - isnt that what life is all about
:-) Common Questions | ADS-B Academy | Garmin
What is an extended squitter? | ADS-B Academy | Garmin
Europe — The European Commission recently announced a delay in the deadline for aircraft operators to outfit their aircraft with ADS-B Out equipment. The original compliance dates to operate in European ADS-B airspace were Jan. 8, 2015 for new aircraft and Dec. 7, 2017 for aircraft needing retrofit installations. The new compliance dates are June 8, 2016 for new aircraft and June 7, 2020 for aircraft needing retrofits.
Kindest regards
Phil.
Last edited by GBEBZ; 4th Jan 2015 at 11:13.