HELP! Looking to move to a US airline...with an interesting background...

[PIC_401]

Hi everyone,

First post here so I hope it can be productive!

I completed my MPL on the a320 with a major carrier in the Middle East (converted to ATPL) years ago. Currently I have about 4300 FO hours on the a320. A U.K. citizen, happily I married a U.S. citizen recently.

Now, I don’t want to get into the whole ME vs USA debate, for my future family and personal reasons, the USA would suit me as I am eligible for a green card which would give me the right to live and work In the USA.

Personally, I would aim for Chicago based airline. Now I know the legacy carriers don’t always hire direct as there is a steady stream of pilots flowing through from the regionals, and I’d be willing to “restart” my career from the bottom up (i.e. E175 / E145 / CRJ) if need be.

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice or experience with applying to US airlines given this situation (i.e. would they require a CPL/IR even if I have my ATPL?). Many of the regional airline websites state that they require an ATP, nothing against an MPL or a specific requirement other than the usual right to live/work and stuff. Just wanted to gauge if I would even be considered for an interview?

Thanks!

[flyboyike]

Just to clarify, do you or do you not have an ATPL?

[PIC_401]

I do have my ATPL...i know that i can convert it by going through the ATP-CTP process, but i think at minimum i would need a PPL to qualify for that course or no? Or is my MPL/ATPL enough for me to to do the ATP-CTP course directly?

Under MPL rules and because i dont have a PPL/CPL, i am restricted to only multi-crew flying however, since i have my ATPL im unclear on how the FAA judges it.

[zondaracer]

There are several airlines with domiciles in Chicago.
Regionals:
SkyWest
Air Wisconsin
Envoy
Republic
Trans States
GoJet
Expressjet

Low Cost:
Frontier
Spirit

Majors/Legacies:
Southwest (Midway)
United
American

Cargo: Atlas (the hiring requirements are now 2000 hours total time, 500 turbine)

All of the regionals will hire you yesterday. I know guys with half the flight time as you and very little jet time that are getting calls for interviews at Frontier and Spirit. Some of the regionals will hire you and your checkride in the simulator is when you get issued your FAA ATP (even for the foreign guys. SkyWest has been doing this for the Australian pilots).

The majors and legacies will take quite a bit of effort to get hired but it isn't out of the realm of possiblity (depending on your other qualifications such as having a university degree, etc).

If you have questions, you can PM me. I work at one of the airlines mentioned above.

[MarkerInbound]

All 121 pilots are required to hold an ATP with a type rating under the FAA system. The ATP is just a COMM with an IR held to a higher standard. If you hold a foreign ATPL you would be eligible for a FAA ATP. You would have to have your CAA verify your ATPL to the FAA, complete a weeklong ATP Certificate Training Program (~$5000), pass the written test and pass a checkride. Many of the regional airlines provide the CTP as part of their new hire training for pilots who only hold a COMM+IR. Don't know if they would provide it for a new hire transitioning to a FAA certificate.

[mustangsally]

You are most likely a quick hire!

First, you need to relocate to the US. Then get the green card and start applying. I'd recommend skipping the regionals, why take a step back, you already fly the A-320.


Join all the airline websites, load up your data and I'm sure the emails, and phone will start ringing.


Want Chicago, apply to all of them. You will be assigned the junior base, but with the current trend, in a relative short period of time, ORD/MID will open up. If the base is senior for the airline it could take a little bit longer, as will upgrades to larger equipment and the left seat.


Good Luck

[PIC_401]

Thank you so much everyone for the great responses! I think i will apply to all of them and see where i go, since im in no hurry, i will try the majors first!!

I was hoping to get onto the 320 with, as one poster stated would be: American / United / Frontier / Spirit. Long term however, i would prefer a legacy carrier over low cost but lets see. There is not too much info on direct-entry hires on the legacy carriers from foreign airlines other than your usual cross US airline pilot making a move from the regionals, or another US airline so ill gauge the response first.

I currently do hold a university degree which most airlines now are holding as a "nice to have". Especially since all these regionals have partnered with numerous schools across the country!

I have also looked in to Southwest but with it being the 737, id rather try my luck on an airline operating Airbus first.

mustangsally - that is my concern applying to the regionals, O'Hare a hustle bustle airport but the need could be anywhere, but like you said would be easy to request ORD/MID base in the future.

[zondaracer]

Originally Posted by mustangsally

First, you need to relocate to the US. Then get the green card and start applying. I'd recommend skipping the regionals, why take a step back, you already fly the A-320.


Join all the airline websites, load up your data and I'm sure the emails, and phone will start ringing.


Want Chicago, apply to all of them. You will be assigned the junior base, but with the current trend, in a relative short period of time, ORD/MID will open up. If the base is senior for the airline it could take a little bit longer, as will upgrades to larger equipment and the left seat.


Good Luck

Don't think that a regional is beneath you. A friend of mine really wanted to relocate to a specific city, and he left his jet flying job and started working as a CFI in the new city. After only 6 months he found a corporate job flying a Global Express. Being a CFI was better than being unemployed and it led to some networking opportunities.

Going to a regional could be very beneficial, because they will pay for your ATP-CTP course (saving you several thousand dollars), and they will pay for your ATP (also saving you a couple thousand dollars). Most of the regionals do not have a hiring contract and there is usually no hard feelings if you leave for an LCC or Major. First year pay at most of the regionals is equal or more than first year pay at Frontier and Spirit. (However, second year pay and beyond at the low cost carriers is usually is more than second year pay at the regionals).

[galaxy flyer]

The MPL doesn’t exist in the US. If you are currently holding an ATPL with an unrestricted type—you will be eligible to hold an FAA one.

Not to put out a wet blanket, but loads of high time pilots (>6,000 hours with command time) are not getting called by majors. It’s getting better, but still competitive. You may have to go the RJ route as a step.

GF

[misd-agin]

MPL time might be counted as zero '0' on resumes/applications in the U.S.

The local FAA FSDO could give you the official word on MPL time logging in the U.S.

[galaxy flyer]

misd-agin

Hadnt thought of it that way—if there’s no MPL, there cannot be loggable MPL time. It’s called passenger time.

GF

[MarkerInbound]

Yes but if the holder of a MPL is serving as a required crew member they would have flight time as a crew member. I don't think it would work for the 61.75 certificate since the foreign license has to give at least the same privileges as a FAA private.

[B2N2]

Originally Posted by misd-agin

MPL time might be counted as zero '0' on resumes/applications in the U.S.

The local FAA FSDO could give you the official word on MPL time logging in the U.S.

No and no.
For one thing MPL is ICAO recognized. And you’ve conducted airline operations. So that’s officially recognized flight time. Period.
Local FSDO is exactky that, local.
Don’t ever hang your hat on what one poorly read-up FAA inspector tells you.
FAA FSIMS contains all the guidance and FAA council provides official interpretations.

[PIC_401]

Thank you again for the responses. To give you all some more info, the flight schools I contacted directly to inquire about converting my ICAO ATPL to an FAA one all told me, I would simply go through the ATP-CTP course as normal once of course the FAA has verified my license with the CAA. Here’s what I’ve been told to convert (may help others down the line):

Step 1: Obtain a Letter of Verification from FAA
If you already have FAA license based on foreign license, proceed to next step.
If you have foreign, non-FAA pilot licenses, you must obtain a Letter of Verification from FAA.
Please download a form from FAA website.
Fill it out, sign, scan, email to FAA.
Letter is valid for 6 months, you must have it before the start of the course

FAA will verify with your Civil Aviation Authority (foreign license must be valid and current, pilot must have Multi-Engine PIC rating on any multi-engine aircraft to be able to obtain FAA licenses), once your CAA responds, FAA will send a letter to you within 5 business days. The response from your Civil Aviation Authority will vary per country and total process may take 4-12 weeks.

Step 2: Take ATP CTP course.
ATP CTP course is a mandatory course to take regardless of pilot’s flight experience, according to FAA (min requirement PPL; whether you have 300, 3000, or 13000 flight hours you must take this course to obtain FAA ATP license).
Certificate is valid for life. Letter of Verification is not needed for this step.
Non-U.S. Citizens will need to get TSA clearance to be able to take sim sessions of ATP CTP course. Please note TSA and immigration visa services are two different entities. When submitting your TSA request and strictly follow instructions to expedite the process.

Step 3: Take ATP Knowledge Test.
Test includes 125 questions. Question bank is about 750 questions. Sample test can be found on FAA’s website.
ATP CTP course covers ATP subjects mandated by FAA, but does not go over all test questions.

Step 4: Take ATP Practical Test.
ATP practical test can be done on simulator (like A320, B737) or light multi-engine aircraft - you will need either FAA CPL IR ME license or Letter of Verification for this step for the check ride.

Because you already have A320 type rating on foreign license and 300 hours on type, you would need to take A320 Upgrade/Conversion course. Course duration is 8-9 days. ATP and Type rating check ride will be the same check ride.
Upon completion, you will receive FAA ATP with A320 type rating.

For privacy reasons I wont go into the source who gave me this info but what do you guys think? Doesn’t seem like anywhere In the process my MPL would hinder my ability to convert?

Also,

What I am thinking now is that I will, when I apply, have to state that my first 1500 hours of flight were under MPL rules, and then ATPL thereafter. Now what the airlines make of this is what im concerned about!

[havick]

Originally Posted by PIC_401

I do have my ATPL...i know that i can convert it by going through the ATP-CTP process, but i think at minimum i would need a PPL to qualify for that course or no? Or is my MPL/ATPL enough for me to to do the ATP-CTP course directly?

Under MPL rules and because i dont have a PPL/CPL, i am restricted to only multi-crew flying however, since i have my ATPL im unclear on how the FAA judges it.

Do you meet all the FAR Part 61 PIC experience requirements? The FAAonly recognizes your hours and verifies your ATPL. Your FAA type rating/ATP ride still requires you to meet all the minimum experience requirements for an ATP-MEL in order to take the flight test in addition to all the ATP-CTP stuff.

[PIC_401]

Hi, I do meet the FAA foreign license verification requirements. When I spoke to a local FAA office, they told me they will be able to verify with my CAA within 45-90 days.

So let’s say all goes well, now I have verification, when I go do my ATP-CTP certificate and then the ATP checkrides, will I need single engine capability (PPL???) or is my ATPL enough to do the tests…. Reason im stating this is that when I did my MPL, I was restricted to Multi-crew operations only, now after I converted it to an ATPL, im not sure if this restriction still applies to me?

I can still go and do a PPL no issues (when I was undergoing my MPL training, PPL had to be done on my own time so I never did it).

Hope im not confusing anyone!

[galaxy flyer]

No, no need for a ASEL unless you want to fly a single engine plane.

GF

[havick]

Originally Posted by PIC_401

Hi, I do meet the FAA foreign license verification requirements. When I spoke to a local FAA office, they told me they will be able to verify with my CAA within 45-90 days.

So let’s say all goes well, now I have verification, when I go do my ATP-CTP certificate and then the ATP checkrides, will I need single engine capability (PPL???) or is my ATPL enough to do the tests…. Reason im stating this is that when I did my MPL, I was restricted to Multi-crew operations only, now after I converted it to an ATPL, im not sure if this restriction still applies to me?

I can still go and do a PPL no issues (when I was undergoing my MPL training, PPL had to be done on my own time so I never did it).

Hope im not confusing anyone!

Do you have the PIC time required under Part 61 and meet all the experience requirements for the ATP-MEL? If you started with an MPL then I’m assuming you would be short on the PIC time required unless of course you’ve been flying as captain.

Regardless of whatever CAA license you currently hold, you still need to tick ALL the minimum aeronautical experience requirements in Part 61.

I switched over my Aussie license in the last few years so know the process well with regards to verification letters, atp-Ctp etc.

Currently flying an RJ for an AA wholly owned regional. They paid for all my conversions (atp-ctp, type rating etc).

[PIC_401]

Hi,

This is exactly what im confused about. The flight school stated above:

Step 4: Take ATP Practical Test.
ATP practical test can be done on simulator (like A320, B737) or light multi-engine aircraft - you will need either FAA CPL IR ME license or Letter of Verification for this step for the check ride.

Because I do not have a CPL IR ME, the first option is out. 2nd option would be the LoV, which is also out because there’s no CPL IR ME to verify from another CAA. I would only have an MPL.

Now it begs the question, would I have to do my CPL IR ME BEFORE undertaking the ATP-CTP course / ATP checkride (would be a painful process haha)? Or simply get a PPL and fly some PIC first?

[skidbuggy]

Given your A320 experience try looking at some of the bottom feeder carriers like Jetblue, Allegiant or Frontier for the time being. Life would probably suck given their poor pay and life quality, but it’s an option until you get on with a reputable carrier like United or American.

Just a thought...

Best of luck