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Nordic Forum It smells a bit of snow and ice and big hairy vikings chasing lusty maidens around after lots of mjd and loud partying. Forum languages are Svenska, Dansk, Norsk & English.


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Old 26th Sep 2012, 17:46   #81 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Some information.....Norwegian and Ryanair are very pleased that
there are so many that would like work for them.....

(I will probably soon hear that "I need to put food on the table" reason)

I hope NO Majors will hire from these companies. Then the problem will be solved.
If you go the low-cost way, always low-cost.....
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 19:12   #82 (permalink)
 
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And who do you call majors? " nyhellesund"

SAS - a government run company, who unless they had public funds would have gone done the drain long time ago!

The world is a chain of various tiers, you have the bottom, the lower level, the medium level, the upper medium level and the top level!

Even in the bad companies I have seen people be happy, all is relative!

Some do not always appreciate how good they have it, until it is gone! I am not supporting Norwegian or any other such company, however it is a part of life, and yes some of us have to put food on the table, not everybody live in a country where the government will give you a small fortune if you do not have a job!

Norway is a priviliged country to live in, in other countries if you come on hard times, eg. in the UK, you can hardly survive on what benefits you get if you loose your job etc.
Sure it is not fair, it is not right all that is going on, however if the alternative is NO airline, NO Norwegian, how many more unemployed pilots would be out there fighting for the few jobs around!

Let's face it, SAS will have major recruitment problems soon, as their pilots are very old, they will be receiving enormous pensions, that was created in a decade when the company had a communistic monopoly on the Scandinavien market!
SAS will be saddled with enormous debts, and will not be able to operate on anything close to what they might have forecasted half a decade ago!

I am not sure who some of you guys are, and it is very clear many of you have lost touch with reality, living in a fantasy land for fairies and believing Peter Pan is going to come and put some magic spell on the whole world of aviation!

Lost touch of reality, in the sense that, it is different times since many of you got your first pilot job! You are blind of what is going on down there, in the start of todays pilot career!
You might want people to do it all the old way, however today who wants to spend 10.000 Euro for Flight Instructor Course, when first you can hardly get a job, and if you get a job, you hardly have enough money to get food for your cat, never mind if you have wife or children!!!

Sure it is NOT a perfect world, maybe some of you have forgot how the bottom of the pilot career ladder feels!
It's different than the SAS model, where they recruited first all Air Force pilots, than they recruited all the children of the pilots working for the company and so on!
I know of guys with thousands of hours, who for many years never got a chance with SAS, because there was no recruitment going on!

This is not a healthy environment, there has to be some movement, change, refreshing! Now Norwegian are about to knock out SAS in European domination of the scandinavien market, they are working within the framework of the EU and EEA laws/regulations!

I know in Scandinavia, we tend to be anti anything progressive, anything that is PRIVATE, an enterprise, Norway love to tax any company to death with all kinds of fees and taxes etc +++

This topic was about job info present and future at NAS, but has been hi-jacked by some wannabe people who want to promote their own agenda! Why not make an own thread about how bad the company is treating you, and how bad you conditions are, because at the moment I could not care less on this thread, on another thread about that topic, I would express my views about such issues, but this is NOT what this thread is about!

Reminds me of a bunch of Norwegians bing drinking on Saturday night, they have to get involved with everybody and everything, instead of just mind their own business!

And if you think it is so damn awful with Norwegian, there are few other companies you can try, where you will think working for NAS is like working for BA !

So anybody know about the plans for the Airbus Neo?
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 19:43   #83 (permalink)
 
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As a pilot in Norwegian, here is some (lack) of information:

Norwegian is run by the same guys who started the operation back in -93. These guys run their own show and do things their own way (if it's good or bad I will leave unsaid). The company does suffer from the extremely rapid growth it has enjoyed during the last years. This shows, for example, in the sometimes very unorganized way the company recruits and the constant lack of answers to the ever so many rising questions. The last year or so we have also seen a sharp shift when it comes to recruitment policies and the very anti-permanent contract views showed by the top guys.

When talking about the future in Norwegian it is extremely difficult to foresee anything. The company is very dynamic and there are multiple variables to take into account. The pilot union is currently bringing the company to court for breach of contract and the cabin union is threatening to go on strike on the 10th of Oct, to mention a few.

So when it comes to the Airbus neo I'm very doubtful that even mr Bjorn Kjos himself knows what it is planned for. One rumor is that it will be used as a feeder in Thailand for the long haul operation. That rumor has, however, about as much certainty as the Euro has right now....

When talking about Norwegian you should remember a few things. There is no detailed grand plan. The info given is constantly changing and the guys working within the company know probably less about the future of company than you guys on this forum. The best way to find out about plans for the Airbus will be to stay in touch with the contract agencies where job opportunities will undoubtedly be posted first...

Other than that, as a permanent guy I'm happy in the company. I enjoy all the good shit most other guys can only dream about these days. This includes: LoL, pension, insurances, competitive pay and a 5/4 roster. Now, if only this could be the standard for our long lost profession....

Edit: spelling

Last edited by LeftHeadingNorth; 26th Sep 2012 at 19:45.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 21:52   #84 (permalink)
 
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haha would be funny if Kjos actually had no plans for the NEO... says a lot about DY's future in that case. In todays competitive market regardless of what you do you need to have a plan and a strategy. Of course you could be lucky and your competitors go bust before yourself, but in todays environment with Ryan and Easy around, unlikely.
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 07:21   #85 (permalink)
 
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The NEO will NEVER be painted in Norwegian colors! Thats my guess! he only bought those planes to force a better deal with Boeing and to dry out the market for med. jets. The next thing we will se is a leasing company under Norwegian.
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 10:23   #86 (permalink)
 
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Totally agreed, there is unlikely to be any "Red Nosed" Airbus.
It does not make sense for a LoCo to have a mixed fleet for any number of reasons.
To the Thai feeder rumour I can also add one doing the rounds about many senior NAS management seen visiting Vueling on occasions ,& a possible link/tie-in with them to feed traffic into a Spanish long-haul hub. Anyone familiar with T's &C's in Vueling will not rejoice at this news.

The visit I am assured is apparently fact, the rest of course is merely speculation.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 10:09   #87 (permalink)
 
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An order of 100 Neo, is a significant number, with regards to the mixed fleet issue. Would not really be a major problem as far as I can see it.

But also what I had heard was that be leased out, not exactly sure how that would work out though. 100 Neo is a lot of aircraft, however I have not been able to find information of over how long period this order is estimated.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 16:23   #88 (permalink)
 
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Aircraft goes tech ? great we have a spare, OK, but what if you have a Standby Boeing crew & only a spare Airbus.
Spares holding ? doubled, paperwork & training staff ? doubled.

In case of tech probs, in all likelihood the two types do not have the same number of seats/payload available.

Cpmplexity with no synergy. Sure, you "may" get a better price playing the two manufacturers off against each other, but, how come the lowest coat airlines (Ryanair/Easy Jet/ Wizzair) stuck with one type if there were any advantage to be had by mixing ?
Maybe they want to expand SO quickly that one manufacturer couldn't sate their needs, given that they take 13 airframes only in 2012 don't think that is it either.
Maybe hedging their bets in case the launch of either one is significantly delayed ? that would make a little sense, but finally, I just don't think these aircraft are destined for Norwegian Air Shuttle. . . maybe Norwegian ____? _____ ? but not, methinks, NAS.

Last edited by captplaystation; 28th Sep 2012 at 16:24.
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Old 29th Sep 2012, 11:48   #89 (permalink)
 
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This discussion has no end..
The discussion about terms and conditions in this business boils down to principles about supply and demand and weak unions. Unions are there to (amongst other things) stop people from accepting ever weakening T&C's and compete by being cheaper. This is especially true in a climate with a higher supply of pilots than demand. This stabilizes the employment model. When now companies circumnavigate this by bypassing unions this protection is taken away, and we hear the "put the food on the table"-argument from pilots accepting lower standards of living to be able to work. Pilots willing to do this were also around before. It's nothing new. But earlier, this willingness to make oneself more attractive to the employer and stockholders by being cheaper wasn't taken into account. You were employed on the basis of other criteria and not on how low wage you could accept.
And this will only continue downwards as long as the unions are taken out of the equation..
We need unionization on a grander scale to create a counterweight to the power of the companies. I would be really happy to see this happen, but experience until now gives me a rather bleak perspective..
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 12:08   #90 (permalink)
 
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Hi

Whats the deal now there? Are they still recruiting non type rated people? Before the summer i applied and i got a form back which i had to fill in, but so far, without any outcome.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 06:04   #91 (permalink)
 
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Unhappy

The deal is getting worse.
12 variable days off.
Leave pr. Company standard. WTF is that??
Social tax in Spain.
New hires in LPA.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 12:36   #92 (permalink)
 
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The dispute has escalated. . . . HEL base is now to be transferred to "Norwegian Long Haul" so, forget about permanent positions when the base reaches 2 years old as NPF have no dog in that fight (Norwegian Long Haul)

For sure AGP & LPA next, and there is a rumour of fishy goings-on in prospect for CPH. The company are on the way to defeating the Union by moving everything lock-stock & barrel onto another AOC

Adios NAS, Ola NLH , and it gives me no pleasure to say this.

I guess this was an inevitable development, difficult to know how the Unions will effectively react to this one, not much they can do about transfering the operation bit by bit from one AOC to another . . or is there ?


Edited to say, OSL CC are supposed to be going on strike within 1 week, company reaction so far has been to tell them to continue working or face mass dismissal & closing of parts of the operation . . . . . . funny, I thought Ryanair colours were Blue & Yellow.

Last edited by captplaystation; 3rd Oct 2012 at 12:39.
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 18:36   #93 (permalink)
 
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I guess it is getting worse....

So, truckflyer and alot of you.

How LOW will YOU go to fly the Airbus 320/B 737 ??

Do you need to get paid?
Do you need time with your family?
Do you need healthcare?
Do you need job security?
....list goes on.

For some of you I guess it does not matter....
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Old 3rd Oct 2012, 22:27   #94 (permalink)
 
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Of course I am not happy with this situation, of course we want it all. It's not about how low, some of us have already have to go MUCH lower than conditions of Norwegian.
So low that even crappy Norwegian conditions, are like an oasis of heaven in comparison!

It all depends, I did not have a daddy who got me into SAS!
Or have the chance to get into Norwegian in the "good old days"

Now it is a few things that is clear, how much can you squeeze, are you willing to squeeze, how do you find the balance of what you want and what you can get, without the company folding?

If Norwegian can expand, this is "good" news, but at what cost do they expand, this is the question!
I do not have a crystal ball, and the fact is, as long as they compete with SAS, they have to constantly undercut them, if SAS one day folds, than that would give Norwegian a stronghold on the Scandinavien market, would this be positive or negative, it's hard to predict.

One thing that is clear, is that the public have chosen with their wallet, and it is not the best option for all, specially the pilots!

Was it a lack of organizing in the union, you can not stop a company to decide it's own business strategy, how they wish to operate!

We all have to adapt, to what is in front of us, and hope for the best! I guess everybody in this business looks out for themselves at the moment, who knows who might be the next Spanair!
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 06:21   #95 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Truckflyer:
It all depends, I did not have a daddy who got me into SAS!
Just for the record:
No family or acquaintances would get you into SAS. That`s the DY way of doing it.

Last edited by Cloudius; 4th Oct 2012 at 06:21.
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 07:20   #96 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Truckflyer: some of us have already have to go MUCH lower than conditions of Norwegian.
You dont HAVE to do anything, you can always say no, or do you say yes to any T and Cs as long as you get to fly?
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 07:58   #97 (permalink)
 
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So if we are to believe Cpt PS most of DY assets are going to end up in the newly formed Long Haul company. Well I for one is not surprised after seeing what the Bear is capable of after the FlyNordic takeover a few years back.
That AGP, HEL, LPA and future bases like LGW? PMI? ALC? will end up in Norwegian Long Haul A/S is a given, but does he have the stones to go after OSL and ARN? I think he has...
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 09:51   #98 (permalink)
 
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Cloudius - Well of course nobody got hired for years! However in the past I knew loads of father / son people employed by SAS, ok maybe not LOADS, but enough to raise my suspicion of their past hiring policies!

They also got themselves into a lost generation of pilots, as they simply have not hired anybody! Who would go to them, with no hope of command upgrade in the near future?

And "berserker" - if only things was that simple! Maybe the industry is built on an illusion, maybe conditions are gradually getting worse year by year, but for people who are "new" in the industry, we do want to believe we have to serve some kind of apprenticeship in the start, where we have to accept bad T & C's, to gain experience, and hopefully be able to progress with our career in a company with better conditions in the future!

If given a chance with low experience, I can understand and accept that people have less than ideal T & C's.

To use an example from a friend of mine, he works his socks of every month, after deduction of his training fees he is left with 800 - 900 Euros a month,(70 - 90 hours a month), than he is told to take 2 - 3 weeks unpaid Christmas vacation!

Now put this into perspective with the problems people are facing at NAS, and see for one it could be much worse! And with Operators like this out there, people will happily jump to "upgrade" their T & C's with NAS, even though for some these are also bad.

Also is relative to the eye of the beholder! Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with what NAS pilots want, but to see there are another group in the same profession, that are treated relatively worse, is not helping the industry.

Of course, we are all free to say yes or no, but after spending XXX thousands in training, and you get offered ANY job in todays market, what will you do? Say no, and continue working at REMA 1000 or RIMI, until some company will offer you the golden goose?
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 11:19   #99 (permalink)
 
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Truckflyer:

Quote:
Cloudius - Well of course nobody got hired for years! However in the past I knew loads of father / son people employed by SAS, ok maybe not LOADS, but enough to raise my suspicion of their past hiring policies!
Of those I know, more than 50% got a no from SAS, so I guess their relations and acquaintances didnt help them much.
(In DY on the other hand, you really had to have some people on the inside putting in a recommendation).

And from what I know of the recruiting procedures, I genuinely believe that there is no reason to fear any unfair selection.

Quote:
They also got themselves into a lost generation of pilots, as they simply have not hired anybody! Who would go to them, with no hope of command upgrade in the near future?
This I have not opposed to. However, that might change. I guess the outcome of SAS is two sided. Either the company goes belly up or the tide and restruction makes things happen very fast in terms of hire and upgrade.

We will just have to wait and see.
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Old 4th Oct 2012, 12:18   #100 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Of course, we are all free to say yes or no, but after spending XXX thousands in training, and you get offered ANY job in todays market, what will you do? Say no, and continue working at REMA 1000 or RIMI, until some company will offer you the golden goose?
I know several people who turned down shitty contracts with no other job on hand, but at least they had the pride and balls to say no to something that will continue to lower the terms for their own profession.
I understand you are desperate to fly those big shiny jets, but there are other options out there......
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