Wg Cdr Arthur Gill, OBE, DFC
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Danny42C ... I beg to differ with your #256 perspective on WRAF ATCOs amortising their training costs. It may have been true in the past (or was it just a rumour?) but I can assure you we monitored this carefully both at Innsworth, Commands, and in my 'Personnel and Training' office at NATS. We obtained full value from the training, and for every 'dolly-bird' who bagged a pilot there were plenty of others who completed a SSC, obtained a Permanent Commission, and served to 38 or even 55.
I shall now resume our holiday (currently in Anchorage, AK)
I shall now resume our holiday (currently in Anchorage, AK)
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Times change !
NigG (your #259),
Arthur had no need of the word: it had not entered the everyday language.
On what planet are we living ? We're trying to run an Air Force here ! Can't anyone see that that proposition makes an unanswerable case for not having them in front-line service at all ?. In an auxiliary rôle, certainly. We had our WAAF (Women's Auxiliary Air Force): the Luftwaffe its Luftwaffehilferinnen . Worked well enough on the day.
Lovely pics of a vanished era ! In No.2, what is that tripod-like affair in front of the "Hart" ? Something to do with the Hucks Starter, perhaps ?
A hanging offence now ! We can only marvel at what they could get away with on those sunlit days of the thirties.
Danny.
...Yet, unlike my father (of similar vintage), you really are on the ball. Arthur would have been flummoxed by the term 'misogyny'... and I, even, at 62, struggle to spell the damn thing!...
... So neither marriage nor having a child should now interfere with a woman's Service career...
Lovely pics of a vanished era ! In No.2, what is that tripod-like affair in front of the "Hart" ? Something to do with the Hucks Starter, perhaps ?
...Sure enough, below was a Landau. In it were King George V and Queen Mary...
Danny.
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Fantome (#257),
The story of the loss of Singapore is one of the saddest in our military history. Churchill himself termed it "the worst disaster" in that history. Although we arrived in India less than a year after it had happened, we knew nothing beyond the simple fact that it had done so. Wiki gives (as far as I can see) a balanced and factual account of the seven fatal days: (8th-15th February 1942). Reading it is like watching a train crash in slow motion.
In the years since it has been minutely analysed by military historians: popular opinion has heaped the blame on Percival and his subordinate generals, but I have seen little reference to what may have been the "Achilles Heel" of Singapore - the fresh water supply.
Wiki makes glancing reference to this in its sober account as follows:
and
and
and
I would say, that with the Japanese now in a position to cut off the city's fresh water supply, he had little option
Of course, the first (impregnable ?!!) line of defence was supposed to have been the Navy. Churchill had sent out a "task force" of two battleships, the ageing "Repulse" and one of our newest and best, the "Prince of Wales", with a defensive screen of destroyers. Had that group been at sea barring the path of the invasion transports, the landings in Malaya could never have taken place. But we know what happened to the "properly handled capital ships that could always beat off air attack" - they couldn't.
They had no air cover as they sailed north, and maintained radio silence so as not to alert the invasion fleet. It was hard luck that they were spotted by a Japanese reconnaissance aircraft. It saw them, so they probably saw it (but remained quiet). Not until after the first crippling blow from the torpedo bombers did Admiral Phillips break radio silence. Not to ask for air cover against the second attack which would surely come, but to signal Singapore for a tug to help his POW, limping along at 1˝ knots on one shaft, back to port.
The second attack came, he went down in his flagship, the Navy lost 1500 (?) men. Singapore was wide open.
That was the story as I heard it at the time.
(Your #258),
He was very lucky to escape alive !
Not the only one. The Harvard was notorious. And a Vengeance on one or two occasions ! I suppose it is possible in any tail-dragger (but never heard of a Spitfire doing it).
Danny.
The story of the loss of Singapore is one of the saddest in our military history. Churchill himself termed it "the worst disaster" in that history. Although we arrived in India less than a year after it had happened, we knew nothing beyond the simple fact that it had done so. Wiki gives (as far as I can see) a balanced and factual account of the seven fatal days: (8th-15th February 1942). Reading it is like watching a train crash in slow motion.
In the years since it has been minutely analysed by military historians: popular opinion has heaped the blame on Percival and his subordinate generals, but I have seen little reference to what may have been the "Achilles Heel" of Singapore - the fresh water supply.
Wiki makes glancing reference to this in its sober account as follows:
...[1] With the vital water supply of the reservoirs in the centre of the island threatened, the Australian 27th Brigade was later ordered to recapture Bukit Panjang as a preliminary move in retaking Bukit Timah.[102] The effort was beaten back by fierce resistance from Imperial Guards troops...
...with the British 18th Division being tasked to maintain control of the vital reservoirs...
...[13 February] Elsewhere, the Japanese captured the water reservoirs that supplied the town, although they did not cut-off the supply...
...The following day, the remaining Allied units fought on. Civilian casualties mounted as one million people[118] crowded into the 3-mile (4.8 km) area still held by the Allies and bombing and artillery fire increased. Civilian authorities began to fear that the water supply would give out. At this time, Percival was advised that large amounts of water were being lost due to damaged pipes and that the water supply was on the verge of collapse ......... ...................By the morning of 15 February, the Japanese had broken through the last line of defence; the Allies were running out of food and ammunition. The anti-aircraft guns had also run out of ammunition and were unable to disrupt Japanese air attacks which were causing heavy casualties in the city centre.............After heated argument and recrimination, all present agreed that no counterattack was possible. Percival opted for surrender.....
Of course, the first (impregnable ?!!) line of defence was supposed to have been the Navy. Churchill had sent out a "task force" of two battleships, the ageing "Repulse" and one of our newest and best, the "Prince of Wales", with a defensive screen of destroyers. Had that group been at sea barring the path of the invasion transports, the landings in Malaya could never have taken place. But we know what happened to the "properly handled capital ships that could always beat off air attack" - they couldn't.
They had no air cover as they sailed north, and maintained radio silence so as not to alert the invasion fleet. It was hard luck that they were spotted by a Japanese reconnaissance aircraft. It saw them, so they probably saw it (but remained quiet). Not until after the first crippling blow from the torpedo bombers did Admiral Phillips break radio silence. Not to ask for air cover against the second attack which would surely come, but to signal Singapore for a tug to help his POW, limping along at 1˝ knots on one shaft, back to port.
The second attack came, he went down in his flagship, the Navy lost 1500 (?) men. Singapore was wide open.
That was the story as I heard it at the time.
(Your #258),
...It happened to a friend of dad's permanent RAAF in Canberra in the late fifties...
...Ground-looping little bastard."...
Danny.
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MPN11 (YOUR #262),
Sir, I defer to your much greater knowledge of this. But I can "only speak as I found" about my last few years at Leeming before retirement in 1972.
In that time we had only a small handful of new WRAF Controllers, all good-lookers in the full bloom of their youth. As an AFS, each was outnumbered 50 to 1 by normal, fit and healthy young bachelors living in the same Mess, roughly of the same age as themselves: having survived OASB these would have been "above average" in comparison with the locals with whom they had previously been acquainted.
Well, it just had to happen (didn't it ?) - "you can't stop the sun from shining !"
It may well have been that in later years some would decide to make the RAF a full career, and be very successful. Indeed, had I decided to take up the option (thank God I didn't) to extend to 55, in my next posting I might have greeted my new SATCO with an Elizabethan flourish and a "Good Morning, Ma'am ! (having had the same kind of shock which the sight of my first Sqn Ldr without ribbons below his wings gave me in the early '50s).
Made me realise I was one of "Yesterday's Men" - and my time was up !
Danny.
...Danny42C ... I beg to differ with your #256 perspective on WRAF ATCOs amortising their training costs. It may have been true in the past...
In that time we had only a small handful of new WRAF Controllers, all good-lookers in the full bloom of their youth. As an AFS, each was outnumbered 50 to 1 by normal, fit and healthy young bachelors living in the same Mess, roughly of the same age as themselves: having survived OASB these would have been "above average" in comparison with the locals with whom they had previously been acquainted.
Well, it just had to happen (didn't it ?) - "you can't stop the sun from shining !"
It may well have been that in later years some would decide to make the RAF a full career, and be very successful. Indeed, had I decided to take up the option (thank God I didn't) to extend to 55, in my next posting I might have greeted my new SATCO with an Elizabethan flourish and a "Good Morning, Ma'am ! (having had the same kind of shock which the sight of my first Sqn Ldr without ribbons below his wings gave me in the early '50s).
Made me realise I was one of "Yesterday's Men" - and my time was up !
Danny.
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Danny
'One of yesterday's men', you wrote. I'm pretty sure that Arthur had similar thoughts. He admitted to clashing with a number of superiors. It must have been frustrating to have so much knowledge, experience and expertise, then to find someone of doubtful background but superior rank telling you that you are wrong, or otherwise think it appropriate to breath down your neck.
I recall something related that he wrote about, as follows...
'In March 1953, I assumed command of Old Sarum, which, among other things, was the home of the School of Land/Air Warfare (later renamed JWE). The commander of the LAW was an Air Vice Marshal. I called on him on the day I took up my post as Station Commander. For the first few days he was continually on my back - "this is wrong!" - "that needs altering!" After the third day, I'd had enough. I said to him "Will you please give me a month to find my feet and decide what needs to be changed. If I have not settled-in to your satisfaction by this time, you can ask Command HQ to find a new Station Commander". He had a look of utter astonishment on his face, but agreed so to do. I never had any trouble with him after that, and we became good friends.'
'One of yesterday's men', you wrote. I'm pretty sure that Arthur had similar thoughts. He admitted to clashing with a number of superiors. It must have been frustrating to have so much knowledge, experience and expertise, then to find someone of doubtful background but superior rank telling you that you are wrong, or otherwise think it appropriate to breath down your neck.
I recall something related that he wrote about, as follows...
'In March 1953, I assumed command of Old Sarum, which, among other things, was the home of the School of Land/Air Warfare (later renamed JWE). The commander of the LAW was an Air Vice Marshal. I called on him on the day I took up my post as Station Commander. For the first few days he was continually on my back - "this is wrong!" - "that needs altering!" After the third day, I'd had enough. I said to him "Will you please give me a month to find my feet and decide what needs to be changed. If I have not settled-in to your satisfaction by this time, you can ask Command HQ to find a new Station Commander". He had a look of utter astonishment on his face, but agreed so to do. I never had any trouble with him after that, and we became good friends.'
Last edited by NigG; 21st Jul 2016 at 19:56.
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NigG (#966),
I agree. The very worst type of Senior Officer in the one who tries to micro-manage his subordinates. Give a chap a job to do - and then let him get on with it ! - is by far the best policy. If he then screws-up, get rid of him and appoint somebody else. We all learn best from our own mistakes - if we're allowed to do so.
Danny.
I agree. The very worst type of Senior Officer in the one who tries to micro-manage his subordinates. Give a chap a job to do - and then let him get on with it ! - is by far the best policy. If he then screws-up, get rid of him and appoint somebody else. We all learn best from our own mistakes - if we're allowed to do so.
Danny.
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Mercifully, during my 2 tours as a SATCO, all my OC Ops and Stn Cdrs let me get on with doing the job I knew. I express my gratitude to them all, even if I did have to have 'sharp words' with one OC Ops on one occasion
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MPN11
Ahh... you can't leave us hanging on your last words!! And how is Anchorage and the great Alaska?
Danny
Beautifully summing-up of what it is to have a respectful boss. (But, from you, I'd expect nothing less!)
Ahh... you can't leave us hanging on your last words!! And how is Anchorage and the great Alaska?
Danny
Beautifully summing-up of what it is to have a respectful boss. (But, from you, I'd expect nothing less!)
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MPN11,
An' all those whales 'n things ? Remember, that is not Moby Dick, and you're not Captain Ahab any more. ("Thar she blows!")
Safe trip home - tell your Captain to "Fly Low 'n Slow, 'n plenty of top rudder on the corners".
NigG,
Mercifully, I have always been blessed with such Bosses - apart from one who didn't know me from Adam, and another who didn't know what day it was most of the time (no names, no pack drill).
Danny.
An' all those whales 'n things ? Remember, that is not Moby Dick, and you're not Captain Ahab any more. ("Thar she blows!")
Safe trip home - tell your Captain to "Fly Low 'n Slow, 'n plenty of top rudder on the corners".
NigG,
Mercifully, I have always been blessed with such Bosses - apart from one who didn't know me from Adam, and another who didn't know what day it was most of the time (no names, no pack drill).
Danny.
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Greetings, chaps! Thanks for asking - both Arizona and Alaska were very interesting, and warm and sunny! Now recovering from the journey home: we left Anchorage at 0125 on Friday, and flew via Phoenix, Charlotte and Dublin back to Jersey, a 30-hour trip ending at 1300 on Saturday [all times local]
Anyway ... my only 'clash' was with an OC Ops who also happened to be an old buddy [I shall avoid identifying him]. From my back office I was aware that he was giving my young fg off Watch Supervisor a hard time about something, so I intervened. In the subsequent "May we continue this in the privacy of your office, Sir?", I suggested that if he had a perceived problem he should use the 'chain of command' and address his concerns to me in the first place - instead of giving a fg off a hard time over professional ATC matters. He took my point, graciously, because he was that sort of 'good bloke'.
Actually, I now recall we also had a 'lively debate' about something in the Mess one evening. I realised in the morning that I had probably pushed the boundaries a bit far, and went to his office to apologise. I knocked, and when he called "Come in" I opened the door and entered walking on my knees, apologising as I did so. He laughed, accused me of drinking "Vino Furioso" the night before, and we both moved on ... contentedly.
Another OC Ops [elsewhere] used to come and 'hide' in my office, drinking my freshly-brewed filter coffee, when the Stn Cdr was giving him a hard time. "Only my PA knows where I am, and he's sworn to silence"
Indeed, my SASO also did that at HQ 11 Gp, hiding from the AOC ... and he also used to raid my box of cigars. I always felt I provided some form of 'Social Services' to some of my bosses
Anyway ... my only 'clash' was with an OC Ops who also happened to be an old buddy [I shall avoid identifying him]. From my back office I was aware that he was giving my young fg off Watch Supervisor a hard time about something, so I intervened. In the subsequent "May we continue this in the privacy of your office, Sir?", I suggested that if he had a perceived problem he should use the 'chain of command' and address his concerns to me in the first place - instead of giving a fg off a hard time over professional ATC matters. He took my point, graciously, because he was that sort of 'good bloke'.
Actually, I now recall we also had a 'lively debate' about something in the Mess one evening. I realised in the morning that I had probably pushed the boundaries a bit far, and went to his office to apologise. I knocked, and when he called "Come in" I opened the door and entered walking on my knees, apologising as I did so. He laughed, accused me of drinking "Vino Furioso" the night before, and we both moved on ... contentedly.
Another OC Ops [elsewhere] used to come and 'hide' in my office, drinking my freshly-brewed filter coffee, when the Stn Cdr was giving him a hard time. "Only my PA knows where I am, and he's sworn to silence"
Indeed, my SASO also did that at HQ 11 Gp, hiding from the AOC ... and he also used to raid my box of cigars. I always felt I provided some form of 'Social Services' to some of my bosses
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MPN11
Ha! Very amusing! Actually what you related also gives an insight into what sort of person you are (..if you don't mind my saying so). I rather think someone who would be good to work for, and with. (30 hours trip home? ..Rather you than me!)
The issue of leadership-style is something anyone who's served in the Forces would be able to talk about at length. Arthur had a sobering experience with his first CO on 84 Sqn. This Wing Commander was notorious for his 'sergeant-major-like' characteristics. The squadron was at a landing ground in the Western Desert, in 1941. It was an interesting place, having been 'relieved' from the Italians, with various wrecked enemy aircraft littering the place. It was both rudimentary and susceptible to attack, so the squadron had to dig-in. The three aircrew of each Blenheim IV dug a group sleeping shelter, and in addition to this a Mess shelter was dug for meals and team get-togethers. The CO's order was that the latter would be dug by everyone first, after which crews would be free to work on their own shelter. For reasons unknown, Arthur, a Flying Officer and recent arrival to the squadron, and his two colleagues, both Flight Sergeants, got stuck into digging their shelter before work had started on the one for the Mess. After a short while, the CO came storming over and tore the three of them off a strip for disobeying him. (I tend to visualise the three of them standing to attention, but firmly braced against the severe blast emanating from the CO's voicebox!) I doubt there are many F/Os who would relish being told-off in front of their subordinates, especially in that manner.
I might add that the CO in question went on to become an Air Vice Marshal. So, I guess his capacity to make people jump must have impressed someone, somewhere.
Ha! Very amusing! Actually what you related also gives an insight into what sort of person you are (..if you don't mind my saying so). I rather think someone who would be good to work for, and with. (30 hours trip home? ..Rather you than me!)
The issue of leadership-style is something anyone who's served in the Forces would be able to talk about at length. Arthur had a sobering experience with his first CO on 84 Sqn. This Wing Commander was notorious for his 'sergeant-major-like' characteristics. The squadron was at a landing ground in the Western Desert, in 1941. It was an interesting place, having been 'relieved' from the Italians, with various wrecked enemy aircraft littering the place. It was both rudimentary and susceptible to attack, so the squadron had to dig-in. The three aircrew of each Blenheim IV dug a group sleeping shelter, and in addition to this a Mess shelter was dug for meals and team get-togethers. The CO's order was that the latter would be dug by everyone first, after which crews would be free to work on their own shelter. For reasons unknown, Arthur, a Flying Officer and recent arrival to the squadron, and his two colleagues, both Flight Sergeants, got stuck into digging their shelter before work had started on the one for the Mess. After a short while, the CO came storming over and tore the three of them off a strip for disobeying him. (I tend to visualise the three of them standing to attention, but firmly braced against the severe blast emanating from the CO's voicebox!) I doubt there are many F/Os who would relish being told-off in front of their subordinates, especially in that manner.
I might add that the CO in question went on to become an Air Vice Marshal. So, I guess his capacity to make people jump must have impressed someone, somewhere.
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(Rescued from "Pilot's Brevet"....... Danny got it wrong - again !)
MPN11 (#271)
Welcome home !
The story of your various contretemps with Higher Authority are typical. I have on occasion had to rebuke a young officer for diving in to solve a disciplinary matter, or a dereliction of duty by an airman, on his own, when the correct thing to have done was to bring in the NCO concerned to deal with it. (And, to put it mildly, if there's any shouting or "effin' n' blindin'" to be done, your NCO is the man to do it).
NCOs (I was one for 12 months) hate being "left out of the loop" like this . it undermines their authority. I always kept in mind a story from my father. His Company was on the march in France (WWI). They were marching "at ease" and becoming rowdy, but not unduly so. The Captain became irritated. But instead of ordering my father to "quieten the men down, Sergeant" (which my father was well able to do), he bawled at the men himself. The troops were shocked, my father felt useless, and it did nothing to improve the trust which should always exist between his officer and himself.
(Was it Rombouts ?)
and
I would suspect their motives ! (Indeed, I would suspect yours, did I not know that you were already at the top of the greasy pole of the Branch) "Fresh brewed filter coffee" ? "Box of cigars" ? How do I get a posting to your outfit ? It can't get much better than that !
And there was me, gasping for a cuppa, as yet another intake of baby Hoskinses reached Controlled Descent phase and heaped up far over my grizzled head (the while wailing: "I got it up here - now you get me down !")
(your #8960),
Buttons, Trousers - Escapers for the Use Of.
The "pivot" button was a good idea. But you would need a fairly level surface. Can't remember them. Our button had to be hung on a bit of thread. Now that I come to think about it, I agree that the tiny luminous spot was on the outside flange of the button. But surely that was wrong ? If the "goons" got the slightest hint of the idea, all they would have to to do would be to parade the prisoners in a dark room, switch out the lights - and look for glow-worms !
MPN11 (#271)
Welcome home !
The story of your various contretemps with Higher Authority are typical. I have on occasion had to rebuke a young officer for diving in to solve a disciplinary matter, or a dereliction of duty by an airman, on his own, when the correct thing to have done was to bring in the NCO concerned to deal with it. (And, to put it mildly, if there's any shouting or "effin' n' blindin'" to be done, your NCO is the man to do it).
NCOs (I was one for 12 months) hate being "left out of the loop" like this . it undermines their authority. I always kept in mind a story from my father. His Company was on the march in France (WWI). They were marching "at ease" and becoming rowdy, but not unduly so. The Captain became irritated. But instead of ordering my father to "quieten the men down, Sergeant" (which my father was well able to do), he bawled at the men himself. The troops were shocked, my father felt useless, and it did nothing to improve the trust which should always exist between his officer and himself.
...Another OC Ops [elsewhere] used to come and 'hide' in my office, drinking my freshly-brewed filter coffee...
and
...Indeed, my SASO also did that at HQ 11 Gp, hiding from the AOC ... and he also used to raid my box of cigars. I always felt I provided some form of 'Social Services'...
And there was me, gasping for a cuppa, as yet another intake of baby Hoskinses reached Controlled Descent phase and heaped up far over my grizzled head (the while wailing: "I got it up here - now you get me down !")
(your #8960),
Buttons, Trousers - Escapers for the Use Of.
The "pivot" button was a good idea. But you would need a fairly level surface. Can't remember them. Our button had to be hung on a bit of thread. Now that I come to think about it, I agree that the tiny luminous spot was on the outside flange of the button. But surely that was wrong ? If the "goons" got the slightest hint of the idea, all they would have to to do would be to parade the prisoners in a dark room, switch out the lights - and look for glow-worms !
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Apologies NigeG, but the second/lower photo in your post #272 intrigues me - can you please identify the aircraft in the background, is it a Bristol Bombay?
Thanks
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
Thanks
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
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NigG ... regardless of 'status', we are always 'people' and thus surely should always behave appropriately? If a chap needs to hide somewhere for a coffee and a cigar, who was I [a humble sqn ldr] to deny a 1* a bit of happiness? The same rule would have applied to any of my team.
Danny42C ... one surely makes the best of one's environment, wherever and whatever level it might be? Whether it's a hole in the sand, or filter coffee! I had my own furniture, lighting and accoutrements in my SATCO's office, and indeed had to dissuade the Stn Cdr from stealing my 'vintage' RAF desk!
Pretentious? Moi? Just comfort, and perhaps a management tool
Danny42C ... one surely makes the best of one's environment, wherever and whatever level it might be? Whether it's a hole in the sand, or filter coffee! I had my own furniture, lighting and accoutrements in my SATCO's office, and indeed had to dissuade the Stn Cdr from stealing my 'vintage' RAF desk!
Pretentious? Moi? Just comfort, and perhaps a management tool
MPN11
When I was at Changi 67-69 the Stn Cdr was Grp Capt Eric 'Peter' Merriman, I recall a fairly popular man particularly with us Herc' crews. He had flown the Herc' on exchange with the USAF before the RAF got them.
In 1970 some of my mates who had been co-pilots on 48 were doing their captain courses and as part of that they made a visit to 38Group at Upavon. Knowing Groupie Merriman was now on a staff tour there, they made a point of calling into his office to say hello. While exchanging pleasantries, all of a sudden came a shout from the adjoining office, that of the AOC, " Merriman, get your arse in here ".
The mate who told me this, a junior Flt Lt, was quite shocked to hear the Grp Capt spoken to in that fashion. I similarly, had I been there, would have equally been shocked. How the mighty had fallen, one day OC one of the largest stations in the RAF, the next a mere office boy!
It wasn't until about 4 years ago when I read Merriman's obituary in the Telegraph that I realised the shout must have been made in jest, as he and the AOC had been young fighter pilots on the same squadron in 1941.
In 1970 some of my mates who had been co-pilots on 48 were doing their captain courses and as part of that they made a visit to 38Group at Upavon. Knowing Groupie Merriman was now on a staff tour there, they made a point of calling into his office to say hello. While exchanging pleasantries, all of a sudden came a shout from the adjoining office, that of the AOC, " Merriman, get your arse in here ".
The mate who told me this, a junior Flt Lt, was quite shocked to hear the Grp Capt spoken to in that fashion. I similarly, had I been there, would have equally been shocked. How the mighty had fallen, one day OC one of the largest stations in the RAF, the next a mere office boy!
It wasn't until about 4 years ago when I read Merriman's obituary in the Telegraph that I realised the shout must have been made in jest, as he and the AOC had been young fighter pilots on the same squadron in 1941.
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MPN11 ,
It is the mark of the "old soldier" that he makes himself as comfortable as possible wherever he is.
Danger may be inescapable, but the man who endures unecessary discomfort is a fool !
(Hence my air-transportable charpoy in Burma).
Danny.
... one surely makes the best of one's environment...
Danger may be inescapable, but the man who endures unecessary discomfort is a fool !
(Hence my air-transportable charpoy in Burma).
Danny.
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I seem to recall asking my father the same question about the wrecked aircraft in the photo, and I think he said it was Italian. (Now there's a challenge!) The landing ground had been in Axis hands and there were wrecked German aircraft there too. But, obviously, the aircraft in question wasn't one of theirs.
Continuing on from my previous post about Arthur getting a roasting from his CO, he had little story about another, and very different style of encounter with a superior. In this case, one who was very much a superior.
Having escaped from Sumatra in the wake of the Jap invasion, and arriving by ship at Karachi (then in India, now in Pakisthan), Arthur was at something of a loose-end; only 132 of 84 Squadron having got out with him, and all of the aircraft had been lost. He was therefore attached to 301 Maintenance Unit at Karachi. One of his first jobs was to take an Imperial Airways flying boat back to Egypt to collect a Hurricane and ferry it down to India, in the company of eleven others. Having arrived in Egypt, he was accommodated on a Thomas Cook Nile steamer, this being used as a 'Transit Officers' Mess'. The following morning a Group Captain arrived and asked 'Are you Ft Lt Gill?'. 'Yes Sir!'. 'Air Marshall Tedder, the C-in-C, want s to see you. Will you report to his ADC at 4 pm'. Arthur duly got himself to AHQ, only to find that this wasn't AM Tedder's HQ. So he eventually arrived a bit late for the appointment at HQ Middle East Air Force. He wrote:
'I was ushered in to AM Sir Arthur Tedder's office, whereupon a silver tray of tea was brought in for the Air Marshal. This he passed to me and another, of rather inferior crockery, was brought in for him. He asked me all about my experiences in Sumatra and whether I knew of the fate of (his friend) AVM Pulford, Air Officer C-in-C, Far East Air Force. I told him that I hadn't seen any Air Officers and, together with the squadron, had been intent on bombing the Japanese invasion fleet, landing areas and airfields until the very end. We had lost 24 aircraft in five weeks'.
Tedder had previously seen 84 Sqn off from the airfield, when it left his command, bound for the Far East (...and oblivion). He very much regretted their, and other squadrons', departure to shore-up the Far East in view of the imminent threat from the Japanese. I've seen RAF newsreel footage of AM Tedder... I guess we all have... and he comes across as a very genial man. The sort of person you would want to work for. As such, he stands in contrast to Arthur's CO in the Western Desert... who was a driver rather than a leader. Arthur must have felt somewhat flattered to have been consulted by Tedder, and to have been treated so cordially.
I rather wonder whether this encounter was to have an empowering effect on Arthur. Some weeks later, it still hadn't been decided what the fate of the remnants of 84 Sqn was to be. Most likely, the personnel would be assigned elsewhere and the squadron would be disbanded. Arthur decided to fly up to Delhi and speak to ACM Sir Richard Pierse and his staff at Air Command India. He argued for the squadron, which had served since 1917, to be reformed and re-equipped, and thus be given a chance to hit back at the Japanese. He was successful and perhaps his earlier meeting with the great man Tedder had been a factor in the whole affair.
I seem to recall asking my father the same question about the wrecked aircraft in the photo, and I think he said it was Italian. (Now there's a challenge!) The landing ground had been in Axis hands and there were wrecked German aircraft there too. But, obviously, the aircraft in question wasn't one of theirs.
Continuing on from my previous post about Arthur getting a roasting from his CO, he had little story about another, and very different style of encounter with a superior. In this case, one who was very much a superior.
Having escaped from Sumatra in the wake of the Jap invasion, and arriving by ship at Karachi (then in India, now in Pakisthan), Arthur was at something of a loose-end; only 132 of 84 Squadron having got out with him, and all of the aircraft had been lost. He was therefore attached to 301 Maintenance Unit at Karachi. One of his first jobs was to take an Imperial Airways flying boat back to Egypt to collect a Hurricane and ferry it down to India, in the company of eleven others. Having arrived in Egypt, he was accommodated on a Thomas Cook Nile steamer, this being used as a 'Transit Officers' Mess'. The following morning a Group Captain arrived and asked 'Are you Ft Lt Gill?'. 'Yes Sir!'. 'Air Marshall Tedder, the C-in-C, want s to see you. Will you report to his ADC at 4 pm'. Arthur duly got himself to AHQ, only to find that this wasn't AM Tedder's HQ. So he eventually arrived a bit late for the appointment at HQ Middle East Air Force. He wrote:
'I was ushered in to AM Sir Arthur Tedder's office, whereupon a silver tray of tea was brought in for the Air Marshal. This he passed to me and another, of rather inferior crockery, was brought in for him. He asked me all about my experiences in Sumatra and whether I knew of the fate of (his friend) AVM Pulford, Air Officer C-in-C, Far East Air Force. I told him that I hadn't seen any Air Officers and, together with the squadron, had been intent on bombing the Japanese invasion fleet, landing areas and airfields until the very end. We had lost 24 aircraft in five weeks'.
Tedder had previously seen 84 Sqn off from the airfield, when it left his command, bound for the Far East (...and oblivion). He very much regretted their, and other squadrons', departure to shore-up the Far East in view of the imminent threat from the Japanese. I've seen RAF newsreel footage of AM Tedder... I guess we all have... and he comes across as a very genial man. The sort of person you would want to work for. As such, he stands in contrast to Arthur's CO in the Western Desert... who was a driver rather than a leader. Arthur must have felt somewhat flattered to have been consulted by Tedder, and to have been treated so cordially.
I rather wonder whether this encounter was to have an empowering effect on Arthur. Some weeks later, it still hadn't been decided what the fate of the remnants of 84 Sqn was to be. Most likely, the personnel would be assigned elsewhere and the squadron would be disbanded. Arthur decided to fly up to Delhi and speak to ACM Sir Richard Pierse and his staff at Air Command India. He argued for the squadron, which had served since 1917, to be reformed and re-equipped, and thus be given a chance to hit back at the Japanese. He was successful and perhaps his earlier meeting with the great man Tedder had been a factor in the whole affair.
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Originally Posted by Brian 48nav
... one day OC one of the largest stations in the RAF ...
PS: yes, I worked in Changi Tower on detachment for a couple of weeks from Tengah, as a rest tour - and to teach the guys how to use their new "PAR"
Originally Posted by Danny42C
It is the mark of the "old soldier" that he makes himself as comfortable as possible wherever he is.
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MPN11
Very nice photo of you and your desk. I was going to write something about certain people being wasted in the Air Force... and how better they might have suited the portals of No.10.
(But... decided that discretion is the better part of valour!)
PS. That said, am I not correct in saying there was an unfurled Union Jack standing in the corner, just out of shot?
Very nice photo of you and your desk. I was going to write something about certain people being wasted in the Air Force... and how better they might have suited the portals of No.10.
(But... decided that discretion is the better part of valour!)
PS. That said, am I not correct in saying there was an unfurled Union Jack standing in the corner, just out of shot?