EK Resignations
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Folks I'll be the first to point out that as I haven't started with EK yet I am in no position to comment or offer an opinion on this line of discussion. However I would like to add one thought.
In the last few years I have worked as a packer in a factory, a taxi driver, a school bus driver, a labourer, a fencer, a coach driver, a maintenance assistant in a little flying school and a concrete agitator driver.
It is no fun at all. I'd rather be flying.
In the last few years I have worked as a packer in a factory, a taxi driver, a school bus driver, a labourer, a fencer, a coach driver, a maintenance assistant in a little flying school and a concrete agitator driver.
It is no fun at all. I'd rather be flying.
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In the last few years I have worked as a packer in a factory
Sorry, that was too easy of a set-up.
Your point, though, is well taken. There are a lot of people at Emirates who came from failed or failing carriers. They don't tend to be the ones on Pprune doing the complaining. If they are, then they have conveniently forgotten the alternative. We all wish for fairness and better terms and conditions, that is only natural. We would also like to share in the success, or at least keep up with inflation. At the end of the day though, this is one of the best jobs out there. That says more about the state of the airline pilot profession than it does about Emirates.
TP
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Typhoon,
Just because some of us came from failing carriers does not mean that we should be less receptive to industry standards. We should also be paid like international wide body pilots. EK prides themselves on being a world class carrier and I have to take issue with this being a world class paying job. With the expenses in DXB (inflation,food,entertainment) I believe you are better off at most European airlines with the additional benefit that you have employer labor laws that protect you from the likes of EK mangers.
Just because most of the pilots here at EK have received a windfall with regards to pay and lifestyle conditions is the reason that things will never change here. Guys don't want to rock the boat and the pilots that have come from Europe (1st world carriers) and especially Americans will have to suffer here.
Just because some of us came from failing carriers does not mean that we should be less receptive to industry standards. We should also be paid like international wide body pilots. EK prides themselves on being a world class carrier and I have to take issue with this being a world class paying job. With the expenses in DXB (inflation,food,entertainment) I believe you are better off at most European airlines with the additional benefit that you have employer labor laws that protect you from the likes of EK mangers.
Just because most of the pilots here at EK have received a windfall with regards to pay and lifestyle conditions is the reason that things will never change here. Guys don't want to rock the boat and the pilots that have come from Europe (1st world carriers) and especially Americans will have to suffer here.
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Leaving Dubai
Well everyone is somehow right and each has a right to their own opinion. The truth however must be said and EK is not what it was let's say 10 years ago.
Dubai has become terribly expensive and when I see that some dare say that it is still cheaper than Europe they are totally wrong.
Dirham for Dirham indexed on it's value 10 years ago and in relation to the exchange rate we all face we are making a lot less money than we did before. Ask anyone with a morgage back home and they will tell you.
I had to take the jump and although reticent in the begining, I am actually better off. But by God was it difficult to make that decision!
You would be surprised at what is available out there... It's just that when you are within EK there is this feeling that you can't leave either because you are going to miss out or because you won't find anything and it's a false sense of belonging that is somehow enshrined within the loose knitting of the EK culture.
Whatever culture that is... There were not many girls with a daddy like Senator Ignatius!
I missed my friends, but not Dubai and it's unpersonal feel, and I laugh when I see some saying Scarlets is great when in reality we know that most "boys" hang out opposite the american hoiispital past 2330 LT, and that Scarlets is full of MMD/BHW seekers and pretentious new comers.
Mate hang in there and look around there is plenty going in the business and not necessarily with UAE carriers.
Dubai has become terribly expensive and when I see that some dare say that it is still cheaper than Europe they are totally wrong.
Dirham for Dirham indexed on it's value 10 years ago and in relation to the exchange rate we all face we are making a lot less money than we did before. Ask anyone with a morgage back home and they will tell you.
I had to take the jump and although reticent in the begining, I am actually better off. But by God was it difficult to make that decision!
You would be surprised at what is available out there... It's just that when you are within EK there is this feeling that you can't leave either because you are going to miss out or because you won't find anything and it's a false sense of belonging that is somehow enshrined within the loose knitting of the EK culture.
Whatever culture that is... There were not many girls with a daddy like Senator Ignatius!
I missed my friends, but not Dubai and it's unpersonal feel, and I laugh when I see some saying Scarlets is great when in reality we know that most "boys" hang out opposite the american hoiispital past 2330 LT, and that Scarlets is full of MMD/BHW seekers and pretentious new comers.
Mate hang in there and look around there is plenty going in the business and not necessarily with UAE carriers.
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LHR Rain:
Since I'm an American and don't feel the least bit like I'm suffering, I fail to understand this statement.
gccpro:
Glad to see the LSD has worn off, this post makes more sense than some of the bizarre stuff you were posting yesterday.
TP
Guys don't want to rock the boat and the pilots that have come from Europe (1st world carriers) and especially Americans will have to suffer here.
gccpro:
Glad to see the LSD has worn off, this post makes more sense than some of the bizarre stuff you were posting yesterday.
TP
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LSD
Hi Typhoon pilot;
Don't know anything about it!
Did you slip it in? carefull, Dubai is not what I would call LSD friendly! And don't know what is worse being on LSD or being American?
Ask good old UP he found out at his own cost a few years ago in SIN
But I am widya! undercover but I am widya!
Don't know anything about it!
Did you slip it in? carefull, Dubai is not what I would call LSD friendly! And don't know what is worse being on LSD or being American?
Ask good old UP he found out at his own cost a few years ago in SIN
But I am widya! undercover but I am widya!
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gccpro:
As long as GW is president I think being on LSD is the better choice. That way we won't remember much when it is finally over
TP
And don't know what is worse being on LSD or being American?
TP
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Typhoon
If you are indeed a real Yank and worked in the US you would have to been making loads more money and taking loads more home with you each month with the low tax system they have there.
If as your name suggests you worked in the Orient you probably love the pay system here in the sand. Also I might offer that since you worked in the far east you probably made command fast there and now are captain at EK which improves your life considerably more than a lowly FO. I just hope you are not a DEC. Some of us from Europe did not have the quick commands that you enjoyed but had a much better lifestyle than EK and DXB entails.
I have admitted before that I made a mistake coming here and leaving my established carrier. Please allow me to vent about all that is bad here in the sand.
If you are indeed a real Yank and worked in the US you would have to been making loads more money and taking loads more home with you each month with the low tax system they have there.
If as your name suggests you worked in the Orient you probably love the pay system here in the sand. Also I might offer that since you worked in the far east you probably made command fast there and now are captain at EK which improves your life considerably more than a lowly FO. I just hope you are not a DEC. Some of us from Europe did not have the quick commands that you enjoyed but had a much better lifestyle than EK and DXB entails.
I have admitted before that I made a mistake coming here and leaving my established carrier. Please allow me to vent about all that is bad here in the sand.
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LHR Rain:
I'll agree with you on some things, but disagree on others. I'll also allow you to vent, but why dwell on all that is bad ? There is lots of opportunity here in Dubai. A shrewd person can make some nice investments or start a business with a little time and effort.
I'm not actually a " Yank ", I'm from California and we're neutral
Your information on U.S. airline pilots is somewhat skewed though, the big salaries at the majors are gone forever. The pilots remaining at my former carrier have seen a 40 to 60% reduction in pay from pre 9-11 levels. They also lost 70 to 90% of their pension in the debacle after 9-11.
I'm not a DEC and I disagree with the policy here at Emirates. In fact, I wouldn't have entertained coming here if the DEC program had been in place prior to my joining. It is probably the single worst thing they could have done to adversely affect morale.
Good guess on the Asian experience. How it correlates to the pay system here, I don't know. I made a lot more money there than I do here, alas that job disappeared with the Asian Economic Crisis.
TP
I'll agree with you on some things, but disagree on others. I'll also allow you to vent, but why dwell on all that is bad ? There is lots of opportunity here in Dubai. A shrewd person can make some nice investments or start a business with a little time and effort.
I'm not actually a " Yank ", I'm from California and we're neutral
Your information on U.S. airline pilots is somewhat skewed though, the big salaries at the majors are gone forever. The pilots remaining at my former carrier have seen a 40 to 60% reduction in pay from pre 9-11 levels. They also lost 70 to 90% of their pension in the debacle after 9-11. I'm not a DEC and I disagree with the policy here at Emirates. In fact, I wouldn't have entertained coming here if the DEC program had been in place prior to my joining. It is probably the single worst thing they could have done to adversely affect morale.
Good guess on the Asian experience. How it correlates to the pay system here, I don't know. I made a lot more money there than I do here, alas that job disappeared with the Asian Economic Crisis.
TP
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Tyhoon
So you are from Calfifornia and what do you mean you are neutral? Does not the government set policy for all of the US or did CA opt out? Aren't all people from the US "Yanks" with no disrespect meant?
Even with all the paycuts the US took are they still leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world still. I am told from a friend (I know realiable information) that US Air narrowbody capts still make about $130,000 plus benifits. Southwest captains top out at $200,000 and Delta about $150,000 after they took a 30% pay cut. Probably more to come later though. Did you ever work in the US and if no how come? That is where the money is and I know if I had a green card or a passport I would be there. A captain here said that American Eagle captains get $90,000 a year for a 50 seat RJ. That is good especially if they have a union there. And are not the only pilots to lose their pensions the ones that voted to get rid of the pensions? If that is true don't they only have themselves to blame?
Maybe the $375,000 a year widebody jobs are temporarliy gone but they have to come back and even if they don't (in your scenario not mine) the US still make a lot of money. Go to airlinepilotpay.com and see for yourself. I don't know how realiable that site is, maybe you can help me out with the info.
Cheers
So you are from Calfifornia and what do you mean you are neutral? Does not the government set policy for all of the US or did CA opt out? Aren't all people from the US "Yanks" with no disrespect meant?
Even with all the paycuts the US took are they still leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world still. I am told from a friend (I know realiable information) that US Air narrowbody capts still make about $130,000 plus benifits. Southwest captains top out at $200,000 and Delta about $150,000 after they took a 30% pay cut. Probably more to come later though. Did you ever work in the US and if no how come? That is where the money is and I know if I had a green card or a passport I would be there. A captain here said that American Eagle captains get $90,000 a year for a 50 seat RJ. That is good especially if they have a union there. And are not the only pilots to lose their pensions the ones that voted to get rid of the pensions? If that is true don't they only have themselves to blame?
Maybe the $375,000 a year widebody jobs are temporarliy gone but they have to come back and even if they don't (in your scenario not mine) the US still make a lot of money. Go to airlinepilotpay.com and see for yourself. I don't know how realiable that site is, maybe you can help me out with the info.
Cheers
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LHR Rain,
I encourage you to get that green card and take your best shot. You will be in the right seat for 15-20 years making at best in the 15th year 90,000US as an F/O. There are pilots at the major US airlines who are furloughed and will never be recalled. Some have been furloughed for over 10 years. The most junior pilot at Usair was hired in the late 80's. A narrow body capt at usair makes 120000 us and works 90 hours a month to get it. Before you spout you expert knowledge based on the word of a friend, I would try to learn a little before opening my mouth.
The fact that you question TP about American aviation based on the information from a friend is a very telling indication about your methods. There is I believe, only 1 American here that did not spend many years flying in the states before coming here. This is not our first choice we would all rather be home. We had no choice. But hey, you go and get that green card and maybe you can do beter!
And by the way, I doubt any Eagle Capt is making $90000 but if he is then it is only after 20 years with the company, and you will not see a $375,000 wide body job in the states in your lifetime.
330 Man
Calling someone from California a yank is like calling a Scottsman or Irishman a Brit. Not well advised.
I encourage you to get that green card and take your best shot. You will be in the right seat for 15-20 years making at best in the 15th year 90,000US as an F/O. There are pilots at the major US airlines who are furloughed and will never be recalled. Some have been furloughed for over 10 years. The most junior pilot at Usair was hired in the late 80's. A narrow body capt at usair makes 120000 us and works 90 hours a month to get it. Before you spout you expert knowledge based on the word of a friend, I would try to learn a little before opening my mouth.
The fact that you question TP about American aviation based on the information from a friend is a very telling indication about your methods. There is I believe, only 1 American here that did not spend many years flying in the states before coming here. This is not our first choice we would all rather be home. We had no choice. But hey, you go and get that green card and maybe you can do beter!
And by the way, I doubt any Eagle Capt is making $90000 but if he is then it is only after 20 years with the company, and you will not see a $375,000 wide body job in the states in your lifetime.
330 Man
Calling someone from California a yank is like calling a Scottsman or Irishman a Brit. Not well advised.
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LHR dude. I suggest you take a break mate and stay off the diesel. You are thrashing around on these forums getting in a right mess. Perhaps some anger management is required 
330 Man A Brit is someone who lives in the British Isles. That includes Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. You corrected someone refering to those from CA as a yank, so just my 0.02c
SyB
330 Man A Brit is someone who lives in the British Isles. That includes Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. You corrected someone refering to those from CA as a yank, so just my 0.02c
SyB
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LHR man - does the sky fall on your head every day of your life? How sad!! 
On the last point, my passport says British, but I am in fact ENGLISH I understand where you're coming from TP.
On the last point, my passport says British, but I am in fact ENGLISH
I understand where you're coming from TP.
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Sheikh,
To be absolutely correct, I believe that what you refer to as British Isles is in fact the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Great Britain refers to England, Scotland and Wales only. The full name of the UK has also been referred to as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Berwick-Upon-Tweed". Berwick-Upon-Tweed is a border town between England and Scotland and because its nationality was in dispute it was constitutionally enshrined as a separate entity.
Obs
To be absolutely correct, I believe that what you refer to as British Isles is in fact the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Great Britain refers to England, Scotland and Wales only. The full name of the UK has also been referred to as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Berwick-Upon-Tweed". Berwick-Upon-Tweed is a border town between England and Scotland and because its nationality was in dispute it was constitutionally enshrined as a separate entity.
Obs
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Gee...I bet the Berwick - Upon - Tweedians were pissed with that outcome. 330 Man I am sorry to tell you, regardless of what Californiacatians call them selves, the rest of the world calls them Yanks, just like the rest of the country. (In the nicest possible way of course...)
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It was for that fact, that Berwick-Upon-Tweed was officially at war with Russia as it was missed from a treaty. Only recently did the Russians sign a peace treaty with those Berwick-Upon-Tweedians.
I really must get out more !
I really must get out more !
Last edited by rumblytumblypoo; 24th Apr 2005 at 18:57.
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330 and Typoon
Your relpies were a little harsh. I did not mean "Yank" in a derogatory or mean way to you or to your compartriots.
Having said that you basically answereed my questions but were trying to contradict and disparage me at the same time. Okay a US Air capt makes $120,000 while I said $130,000. I was not that far off. I guess you valadiated my point on SW and Delta by not metioning them as well as the pension issues by your silence. Any by the way how can a US airline fly 90 hours a month? Won't they time out by the end of Sept each year?
I guess why you left the US it was not the green fields that you signed up for but I believe you have to admitt it is still pretty good compared to the rest of the world. I know that I would start at the bottom and it would take years to make the left seat (if I got a green card) but you have to compare apples to apples. How much does a Delta or United 777 captain make compared to the rest of the world? Plus with the added benifits of labour laws to protect you. We have no protection here. Look what they did to the JNB guys.
Just because you are not making as much as you did back home don't take it out on someone who questions you.
Your relpies were a little harsh. I did not mean "Yank" in a derogatory or mean way to you or to your compartriots.
Having said that you basically answereed my questions but were trying to contradict and disparage me at the same time. Okay a US Air capt makes $120,000 while I said $130,000. I was not that far off. I guess you valadiated my point on SW and Delta by not metioning them as well as the pension issues by your silence. Any by the way how can a US airline fly 90 hours a month? Won't they time out by the end of Sept each year?
I guess why you left the US it was not the green fields that you signed up for but I believe you have to admitt it is still pretty good compared to the rest of the world. I know that I would start at the bottom and it would take years to make the left seat (if I got a green card) but you have to compare apples to apples. How much does a Delta or United 777 captain make compared to the rest of the world? Plus with the added benifits of labour laws to protect you. We have no protection here. Look what they did to the JNB guys.
Just because you are not making as much as you did back home don't take it out on someone who questions you.