Flybe Wings 2015

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Officer Kite

How come?

Think I answered my own question.

I did the calculations at £70k loan and end up with £705 left each month.

Per diems pay was based on 850hrs flying not duty, if Flybe pay duty hours then duty pay would be more than I estimated.

However projected doesn't look too much better; after 5 years I will be taking home exactly what I do now as an engineer.

What I also didn't consider was the extra interest added from taking a 24 month holiday period on the loan.

All things said and done you are probably better off with EZY, or BA for sure.

mackoi, I prefer cookie dough

[Officer Kite]

I am not in this game for the cash and I know my fellow wannabes aren't either (for the most part I hope anyway), but anything in the region of £1000 a month is a kick in the teeth. I can't help but point out the fact that I had a part time job over the Christmas period at a well known retail outlet, my pay for folding jeans and shirts for 20 hours a week was actually more than what this scheme will offer.

[mackoi]

anything in the region of £1000 a month is a kick in the teeth.

Unless either you don't need a loan or you're a daddy boy, otherwise prepare to suffer financial pain during your first years at Flybe.

[vrb03kt]

BaronVonBarnstormer, your figures aren't a million miles off. However, the salary sacrifice portion is taken before tax, so it's not quite as much as £396 per month. Also the per diems are based on duty hours, not block hours.

Nevertheless, you wouldn't be doing it for the money, that's for sure.

[mackoi]

Does Flybe tend to choose English nationals? (even if the other Europeans have a good level of English language)

By the way, I did my numbers as well and you'll need a total of 75kPounds for the whole process, not including unexpected fees.

Selection 245 + commuting
Medical 350 + commuting
Insurance 1030
Living 7000 minimum
MPL 66000

And I would suggest an additional amount as a safety margin, just in case something goes wrong.

[Reversethrustset]

I don't really know why this deal is getting slated so much. I think you are all looking at it through the wrong window.
Flight training in the last 20 years is not free of charge. If you want to fly aeroplanes then you are going to have to pay for training. As you all know there are various ways to do this, integrated, modular, mpl, and airline schemes. Either way it is going to cost you alot of money. Look at each way in detail
Integrated, its going to cost you around £100,000. No job guarantee.
Modular, probably in the region of £70,000. No job guarantee
MPL, probably the same as integrated, around £100,000. Job guarantee? 99.9%
Airline scheme, £66,000 + living expenses. Job guarantee? 99.9%

The BA scheme so I am led to believe is similar, they pay for part of your training and you have a salary decrease to pay it back. The only difference between this and BA is that with Flybe you start on a lower salary so it feels like a bum deal. You could choose to do it the other way, go integrated or modular, pay through the nose and hope you get an interview with an airline but you'll be joining the masses with the same license trying to find a job. Whichever way you choose it's going to cost you a serious amount of cash, there are no free ways into this industry anymore and this scheme is a genuine attempt to give the cadet a leg up and start in the industry at a reduced initial cost outlay.

[ManUtd1999]

The only difference between this and BA is that with Flybe you start on a lower salary so it feels like a bum deal.

There's also the loan guarantee that BA provide to all candidates. This makes a huge difference for people that a) don't have 60,000 cash lying around b) don't have or don't want to use their (parents) house as security

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Whichever way you choose it's going to cost you a serious amount of cash, there are no free ways into this industry anymore and this scheme is a genuine attempt to give the cadet a leg up and start in the industry at a reduced initial cost outlay.

I totally agree. However sometimes in life you have to be realistic. If Flybe FOs earned even what EZY FOs did then this scheme would make a whole lot more sense.

The only way this adds up to me is if you can get your hands on £70K interest free, which means making some big sad eyes at mummy and daddy to get them to buy you a job.

Living on just circa £750/ month has serious implications; you want to save to buy a house? Forget it. You want to take your SO on holiday? Fat chance. Want to upgrade from your crummy Yaris? Dream on sonny boy. Want to fix the broken boiler? HAHAHA your'e having laugh mate.

And god help you if you get a LCY basing. THE cheapest flat I could find in that area with a quick search was £500pcm.

I'm sat here comparing the quality of life I would have if I was successful through this scheme and the life i could have doing what I do now. Even though my job is boring the deal just doesn't add up for me. Yes I would love the job flying, i'd chop off my left to get in to the right hand seat but am I willing to prostitute myself to some at BBVA for the chance to do it? No.

Rant over. I'm off to ask daddy for £70k

[Stocious]

And god help you if you get a LCY basing. THE cheapest flat I could find in that area with a quick search was £500pcm.

£500pcm near LCY? Got to be a houseshare!

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Put it this way; Harry Potter had a better deal under his stairs.

[six-sixty]

There are very many people who have used Flybe as a great entry point into the industry, but there are fewer and fewer each year. Guys and gals used to be snapped up by the charters etc after a good few 000 hrs wrestling the beast of a TP that the Dash is but the emphasis has moved right away from experience and to cadets as they are cheaper. Combined with this Internally the emphasis is on the TP as the strategic type of choice over the jet, Flybe is increasingly becoming a one way career dead end for anyone with ambitions to get off props and by definition increase their quality of lifestyle and pay.

Admittedly there are a few places in the ME etc which have allowed Dash drivers to move on by accepting their experience and that may continue but in the UK if your first job isn't on a Boeing or a Bus then unless you can get through BA's astronaut selection (and before you ask no I couldn't) you will be chasing the very few "opportunities" to buy yourself a second officer position with the likes of EZ or a part time contract with Jet2. That's after all the financial hardship you already went through...

I hope I'm not coming across as disrespecting the company because I'm not and they pay my mortgage, but go into it knowing exactly where you want to end up because if it is on a medium jet or above, you will have a fight on your hands

[juniour jetset]

great quote six-sixty "BA's astronaut selection"

[mackoi]

great quote six-sixty "BA's astronaut selection"

Indeed. Being Spanish I did not even try BA, although my english is not bad.

If I had enough money for this Flybe programme I would go for it, but I don't and for sure I have not any property in the UK to secure a loan (20k loan or so).

However I tried Aer Lingus and they got rid of me in the first stage, looked like they were mostly looking for Irish people.

If I have to wait for a Spanish company to open a cadet programme .... xD, well I would die before that happens. Probably I'm going modular with a school in BCN while working as an engineer and then aim to Ryan or something similar, at my early 30's I cannot wait anymore.

[Officer Kite]

However I tried Aer Lingus and they got rid of me in the first stage, looked like they were mostly looking for Irish people

This was certainly not the case I can assure you !

With regards the FlyBe Wings scheme, the likelihood of being stuck on the dash for roughly 10 years waiting to get on the embraer isn't something I would look forward to. Yes it is a job at a great price, but I feel you will pay a lot more in lost chances to develop your career further with a programme that offers a jet. As well as that, as someone else mentioned, how can you survive on the salary given all the repayments and the possibility of a LCY base would put you in one hell of a financial .

Don't get me wrong I feel this is a great opportunity and offers a lifestyle that many want, just not me.

[six-sixty]

Just to clarify no one will be based at LCY because there is no LCY base at Flybe.

[speed_alive_rotate]

"However I tried Aer Lingus and they got rid of me in the first stage, looked like they were mostly looking for Irish people"
@mackoi: You should try the other Irish airlines, some of them will hire anyone BUT Irish pilots!!!!!!

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

I am not in this game for the cash and I know my fellow wannabes aren't either (for the most part I hope anyway)

Well you bloody well should be! While I applaud your enthusiasm, having been in your situation only 5 years ago, 4 years of airline flying down the road I can assure you that when you get that flying job you're merely entering into a business relationship whereby you fly for reward (the definition of what a CPL entitles you to do).

While that reward will come in other forms than purely monetary, it won't take you long to realise that this is a job first and foremost. We fly because we want to enjoy what we do while being able to pay the bills and give ourselves a certain standard of living. Ask the majority of professional pilots out there whether they would be doing the same type of flying if they won the lottery and you'll find the overwhelming majority will answer no. Personally, I'd never like to give up flying entirely but there are numerous times ahead where you will question your decision to give up another career for all this. And yes, I'm certainly in the camp that would give up airline flying and go back to flying for fun if I could afford to.

Very best of luck with everything and please don't take my post as a downer on your enthusiasm but make no mistake, this is a JOB and the days of it being a vocation are long gone.

[Officer Kite]

Interesting perspective 2 whites 2 reds, it's always great to hear from people on the other side of the fence. Don't get me wrong, while I do realise the importance of the salary side of things and how much more I will value it as I progress in the career (provided I'm successful that is), what I meant was that as a five year old begging my parents to take me up to the viewing deck at heathrow, or as a 9 year old getting my hands on my first flight sim game, money has never been at the centre of my desire to be a pilot, it's just one of the bonuses for me right now. I have no doubt that will change as things progress !

On a somewhat separate note ...

Another reason I said it was to clarify that I'm not being snobbish as so many of us wannabes get accused of by older people. People who think that we think we're too good to fly a tp, that certainly is not the case for me anyway (I would actually love the challenge of a turboprop). However this Flybe scheme and the dash 8 is a one way road with a dead end not too far down the line if you ask me, hence why I'll be avoiding.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

As I said OK, my comments are not intended to dissuade you from persuing a career sat at the pointy end. It would be somewhat hypocritical of me to do anything of the sort but before throwing the kitchen sink at this career you need to be aware of what you're entering in to. Don't underestimate the volume and severity of compromises that you will be asked and indeed expected to make. While life is full of compromises, I've been shocked at the expectation by airlines for us to uproot our lives, take a lower salary, work longer hours and accept ridiculous leave systems at the drop of a hat. These aren't minor considerations and all of which will have enormous ramifications on your home life, social life and overall health if you don't manage it. I've never been in any job that's required "Managing" let alone on such a grand scale. Luckily I have a very supportive Wife but to be honest for every major compromise I'm asked to make I fall out of love with flying a little bit more. The only thing that counters these compromises is earning reasonable (although not great) money. This is the only tangeable thing that I can use to justify the compromises to Mrs 2W2R. There's more to life than money and as mentioned in my previous post, the rewards you'll get from flying will be more than purely financial. However, we go to work to earn a living and this, more so than any other job I know of, is a business relationship where you will be treated as a number and dropped like a stone when you are no longer required or affordable. The least you should expect in return for the endless compromises and so on it a reasonable standard of living. It's just a job!

[mackoi]

2W2R, if I may ask: Considering all those aspects you said, would you give up your flying career to do whatever you did before flying?