Ryanair
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland/Belgium
Age: 43
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J Lieber
Please forgive me if I've overlooked something obvious but perhaps you could clarify the following regarding pay:
You mentioned that pay amounts to "£700 per month" (€1020 at todays rate) which amounts to "€40.5/hr".
So 1020 divided by 40.5 = 25.18 hours per month
Are newly qualified S/O's really only flying 25hrs per month? I've seen the €40.5/hr (or similiar) mentioned elsewhere but I would have imagined that 25hrs would be more closely representative of a weeks flying rather that a months(?)
Thanks in advance,
John.
You mentioned that pay amounts to "£700 per month" (€1020 at todays rate) which amounts to "€40.5/hr".
So 1020 divided by 40.5 = 25.18 hours per month
Are newly qualified S/O's really only flying 25hrs per month? I've seen the €40.5/hr (or similiar) mentioned elsewhere but I would have imagined that 25hrs would be more closely representative of a weeks flying rather that a months(?)
Thanks in advance,
John.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would understand from J Liebers post that the training contract is with RyanAir until Line Check. During line training salary is the flat £700. After Base Check (at the end of line training) the trainee is shown the Contract of Employment which is with Brookfields. It seems that this Brookfields contract is given on a take or leave basis, you have no power to influence it if it doesn't suit you. When on the Brookfields contract the salary is 40.50 EUR/h.
The above was from J Liebers post, not my own knowledge. (I will either never find out since I declined their generous offer
)
The above was from J Liebers post, not my own knowledge. (I will either never find out since I declined their generous offer
)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They don't care where you do your training as long as the type rating is done with their approved school's cae & sas. They say doing the mcc with them helps but thats open to debate.
Ryanair thread, a must read.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249697
Ryanair thread, a must read.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249697
Last edited by PlaneHomerS; 19th Mar 2007 at 13:06.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: On the Camel's back
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jono,
I'd be more concerned with doing training that would appeal to a higher class of employer than ryanair. ryanair couldn't care less where you train, so why not train in establishments that would raise your appeal at a company worth working for.
If you've already set your sights on ryanair at this early stage of your ryanair, you are selling yourself very short.
Practically every other airline in the UK is recruiting at the moment; fr should be your last choice.
I'd be more concerned with doing training that would appeal to a higher class of employer than ryanair. ryanair couldn't care less where you train, so why not train in establishments that would raise your appeal at a company worth working for.
If you've already set your sights on ryanair at this early stage of your ryanair, you are selling yourself very short.
Practically every other airline in the UK is recruiting at the moment; fr should be your last choice.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On the side of the pitch!
Age: 47
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want an @rsehole left and a life, I would agree with CamelHair. It's an airline that cares little where you train and little for you even. There's lots of great airlines out there who look after their pilots.
To be honest it doesn't matter a jot where you train, no-one really cares.
To be honest it doesn't matter a jot where you train, no-one really cares.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must agree with everyone else, not the best airline to be contimplating as a career choice, they dont care one bit about their pilots, and Im speaking from first hand experience.
It could be so much more than it is but at the moment its a hard place to work, with no thanks what so ever for you professionalism,
Final word, For your own good steer clear.
It could be so much more than it is but at the moment its a hard place to work, with no thanks what so ever for you professionalism,
Final word, For your own good steer clear.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Line Training
Hi guys,
Just a quick one for you to try and clear up what is going on from someone who is doing line training at the moment.
I finished flight training and did an MCC. I was accepted for an interview and got onto the TQ within one month of finishing my IR.
I paid Euro 25,000 for the course. That was 80 hours sim training and then a base check, (circuits) in the 738.
Your right in saying you dont get paid while you are on TQ, but to be honest, unless you are with a major mainline, no one gets paid on Initial rating courses.
I also signed a Ryanair contract which a for a MAX 6 month term of line training. Meaning they have 6 months to complete the training. During that time i am paid Euro 15,000 per annum. This works out to about Euro 1250, or £850 before tax.
That wage is regardless of how many hours or sectors you fly.
I have been online now for one week, of which i flew 3 days, and 2 days I jump seated because of weather. Never the less i have in my log book 10sectors, which is over 20 hours.
The Minimum release of safety pilot is 12 sectors, with target being 30.
Initial line check, (i.e. when you complete you line training and can fly with normal captain rather the a line traininer), minimum 64 with targert being 100, and Max being 124 sectors.
Most guys at the moment are flying maximum hours, which is 100 per 28 days, and 900 per year. So there is quiet abit of standby days, but in actual fact, you are flying the maximum legally available.
At this point, you will sign a full Ryanair contract which will be £18.5K salery and half sector pay which is worked out on block hours.
Full sector pay is as follows: -
Minimum 3 hours.
3-5 hours = £85
5-7 hours = £130
7+ hours = £185
There is however a big thing at the moment that people within Ryanair are all on different contracts, meaning that it is impossible to form a union and fight for the crap salery. Compare it with Easy. Big difference.
You do have to pay for your type rating upfront, but bare in mind, you are not paying for the line training, and you are NOT BONDED, meaning you can leave at any time, work your 3 months notice, and not have to pay back any money to the airline.
Believe me guys, as good as the job is, its amazingly hard work. Trying to learn how to line fly, and in actual fact learn to fly the 738 whilst doing 1.5 hour sectors, and 25 min turn arounds, which in actual fact are 20 mins door to door, is really really hard!
Everyone that says the grass is greener on the other side.....You may be correct, but obviously you are not bothered about paying off loans, getting flying hours under your belt, and you are happy to be bonded to a company that may turn out to be just like Ryanair....(Unlikely, but things are changing in the aviation world)
But let me just ask you guys this one thing.......how many interviews and job offers have you had. If the grass really is greener, you wouldnt be in the Wannabe's section anymore.
Think long and hard about it. If you do choose Ryanair, it may not be pretty, and the pay looks good, but there are lots of pay disputes at the momnet, but remember, you CAN leave, and you will have a very good rating that is all your and you dont have to pay anything back for it.
Good luck guys,
and any questions, then PM me.
Just a quick one for you to try and clear up what is going on from someone who is doing line training at the moment.
I finished flight training and did an MCC. I was accepted for an interview and got onto the TQ within one month of finishing my IR.
I paid Euro 25,000 for the course. That was 80 hours sim training and then a base check, (circuits) in the 738.
Your right in saying you dont get paid while you are on TQ, but to be honest, unless you are with a major mainline, no one gets paid on Initial rating courses.
I also signed a Ryanair contract which a for a MAX 6 month term of line training. Meaning they have 6 months to complete the training. During that time i am paid Euro 15,000 per annum. This works out to about Euro 1250, or £850 before tax.
That wage is regardless of how many hours or sectors you fly.
I have been online now for one week, of which i flew 3 days, and 2 days I jump seated because of weather. Never the less i have in my log book 10sectors, which is over 20 hours.
The Minimum release of safety pilot is 12 sectors, with target being 30.
Initial line check, (i.e. when you complete you line training and can fly with normal captain rather the a line traininer), minimum 64 with targert being 100, and Max being 124 sectors.
Most guys at the moment are flying maximum hours, which is 100 per 28 days, and 900 per year. So there is quiet abit of standby days, but in actual fact, you are flying the maximum legally available.
At this point, you will sign a full Ryanair contract which will be £18.5K salery and half sector pay which is worked out on block hours.
Full sector pay is as follows: -
Minimum 3 hours.
3-5 hours = £85
5-7 hours = £130
7+ hours = £185
There is however a big thing at the moment that people within Ryanair are all on different contracts, meaning that it is impossible to form a union and fight for the crap salery. Compare it with Easy. Big difference.
You do have to pay for your type rating upfront, but bare in mind, you are not paying for the line training, and you are NOT BONDED, meaning you can leave at any time, work your 3 months notice, and not have to pay back any money to the airline.
Believe me guys, as good as the job is, its amazingly hard work. Trying to learn how to line fly, and in actual fact learn to fly the 738 whilst doing 1.5 hour sectors, and 25 min turn arounds, which in actual fact are 20 mins door to door, is really really hard!
Everyone that says the grass is greener on the other side.....You may be correct, but obviously you are not bothered about paying off loans, getting flying hours under your belt, and you are happy to be bonded to a company that may turn out to be just like Ryanair....(Unlikely, but things are changing in the aviation world)
But let me just ask you guys this one thing.......how many interviews and job offers have you had. If the grass really is greener, you wouldnt be in the Wannabe's section anymore.
Think long and hard about it. If you do choose Ryanair, it may not be pretty, and the pay looks good, but there are lots of pay disputes at the momnet, but remember, you CAN leave, and you will have a very good rating that is all your and you dont have to pay anything back for it.
Good luck guys,
and any questions, then PM me.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: On the Camel's back
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
unless you are with a major mainline, no one gets paid on Initial rating courses.
you are not paying for the line training, and you are NOT BONDED
Being bonded used to be in fact the norm and is a very very preferable way to go. How you can sing the praises of no bond, in the same post as pointing out how much you paid them, is mind-boggling in the extreme.
Economic laws don't suspend themselves just because you're getting 737 hours. You can feed yourself short-term on loans, but in the long-term a logbook with 737 hours won't buy you a house or even dinner on a ryanair wage. Remember that.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would just like to echo what jayc004 says. All he's doing is laying down the facts as he's employed by Ryanair and enjoying it. He's clearly stated the deal they offer and yet all people ever seem to do on Pprune is criticise anyone for being positive.
I have also recently started with Ryanair and I've gone in with an open mind. It's going to be hard work and yes, quite expensive initially, but ultimately you have to ask yourself how many other airlines are queueing up to take you on? I'm fed up hearing facts like "virtually every major UK airline is recruiting at the moment, so go and work for them instead."
That's far easier said than done. No one is saying joining Ryanair is the best decision you'll ever make in life or that it's going to be easy, but the facts presented on Pprune by those who have been in the company a few months or a year or two are just that - facts - not the rumours posted by so many negative people. I haven't seen anyone post any comment saying "I've been here 12 months and it's awful."
Make up your own mind, but I'd far rather risk being shafted by Ryanair (even though I don't think that will happen) while gaining fantastic line experience on a great aircraft earning £700 a month for a few months than sit at home earning NOTHING waiting for highly unlikely job offers from other airlines.
And as for being paid during your type rating, recent friends of mine have joined BA, BMI, Jet2, Excel and BA Connect and only BMI pay you during your initial type rating - so Ryanair is no different from the majority.
I have also recently started with Ryanair and I've gone in with an open mind. It's going to be hard work and yes, quite expensive initially, but ultimately you have to ask yourself how many other airlines are queueing up to take you on? I'm fed up hearing facts like "virtually every major UK airline is recruiting at the moment, so go and work for them instead."
That's far easier said than done. No one is saying joining Ryanair is the best decision you'll ever make in life or that it's going to be easy, but the facts presented on Pprune by those who have been in the company a few months or a year or two are just that - facts - not the rumours posted by so many negative people. I haven't seen anyone post any comment saying "I've been here 12 months and it's awful."
Make up your own mind, but I'd far rather risk being shafted by Ryanair (even though I don't think that will happen) while gaining fantastic line experience on a great aircraft earning £700 a month for a few months than sit at home earning NOTHING waiting for highly unlikely job offers from other airlines.
And as for being paid during your type rating, recent friends of mine have joined BA, BMI, Jet2, Excel and BA Connect and only BMI pay you during your initial type rating - so Ryanair is no different from the majority.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't seen anyone post any comment saying "I've been here 12 months and it's awful."
but I'd far rather risk being shafted by Ryanair (even though I don't think that will happen)
When you eventually get around to joining the site which only FR pilots can use you will see lots posts which suggest that your optimism may not be entirely merited. Like fellow FR pilots asking colleagues about their salary or leave because no representative of their employer will give them an answer.
jayc004 you say that
"Most guys at the moment are flying maximum hours, which is 100 per 28 days, and 900 per year."
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: limbo
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In response to the post by Scroggs. I am a current Ryanair F/O recently a S/O.
Can those who are currently employed by Ryanair answer the following questions:
1. How much does the type rating & line training currently cost?
At CAE in Amsterdam where most do their training, its €28,000. By the time you pay for accom., travel, living expenses during line training (You can, and will be bounced around any of the soon to be 19 European bases to fly with an available line trainer), licensing expenses, Uniform, Airport ID cards, Food and water during your line training flights and various sundries, I think I easily spent closer to €35,000.
2. Is the wannabe employed during training? If so, who by?
The Wannabe will be employed on, and I quote from the contratc, a "fixed-term training contract" which "It must be clearly understood is a fixed-term contract only and that should a permanent position be available within Ryanair.. you will be considered for that position..."
3. What salary and/or allowances are payable to the wannabe during the training phase?
£890 GBP a month net, or in Euro Bases, a Gross Salary of €15,000
4. At what point does the wannabe become employed by Ryanair or Brookfields?
A permanent contract is offered at some point after line check. The time scale varies hugely, some have been left on trainee/fixed term contract for up to 6 months, with no reasonable explanation from Ryanair. Conversely, some who were taken on on the basis of a permanent contract were told once they had done their sim that "No permanent positions are available, you must become a brookfield contractor"
5. What is the intial rate of pay, and what steps does that salary take in the first three years? How has this changed over the past few years?
Initial pay once the fixed term contract is up (ie After your initial line check) is €18,000 gross plus half sector pay of about €1K nett a month, after 6 months its full sector pay. After that is anyone's guess, there are no published salary scales, every base and every Pilot can be on a different contract. Nobody except management know for sure
How have these salaries changed? Well Lets look at the last five years. A friend started as a S/O in 2000 and made €4000 net a month. He is now a Line trainer and makes €6000 a month. Says it all really! There is a constant undertow of sliding T&Cs, I would say of at least 5-10% a year.
6. What are the arrangements for non-flying periodic training (SEP, simulator etc)?
Again with Ryanair, it depends! I am based in a continental European base. I get a ticket booked, a Hire Car and free petrol, and Hotel paid for me going to the sim. If I was based in STN I would get nothing. They have to pay for B&B and get themselves there.
7. What are the details of the roster arrangements? How do they relate to easyJet (for example)?
The only reason, in my opinion, that Ryanair keeps people. Roster is the best out there if you want a steady life. 5 days on 3 off, set in concrete all year around. Again, depending on which of the many flavours of contracts you are on! If Brookfield you will either by 5/4 if assigned a base or 5/5 if a floating pilot, in a different base every week. Easy now have 5/3, 5/4.
8. What arrangements are there to protect the pilot in case of long term sickness, loss of licence, or retirement (ie pension)?
Nothing, nada, zip. Since we are "the highest paid Pilots in Europe" we can easily afford these out of our substantial pay cheques. There used to be Pensions and LOL insurance but these were taken away by a memo posted on the internal staff website, with no mechanisim available to staff to fight it.
9. What other benefits are paid or applied to the contract?
Benefits none. The Big carrot that they dangle is a quick command. Young wannabees seem happy to sign their life away for the "Zero to Hero" three year command, with the prospect of being a Line Training Captain in about another three years.
10. What are the prospects for union representation within the company?
Difficult question. BALPA in conjuction with REPA have agreed to help the Pilots in UK bases with a union recognition campaign. Both BALPA and especially IALPA are putting in sterling work to help the Pilots help themselves.
However at a meeting in STN today to discuss a new paydeal (Note the phraseology, Deal, not the word contract as in legally binding) the director of flight ops threatened that if union recognition was forced on Ryanair they would retaliate by changing our days off to 5/2. Why "Because I can".And as was also made clear under questioning of another member of management 'THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES', ie if Ryanair don't like what they're giving us they'll change it.
Further insight into company culture if ever it were needed
Can those who are currently employed by Ryanair answer the following questions:
1. How much does the type rating & line training currently cost?
At CAE in Amsterdam where most do their training, its €28,000. By the time you pay for accom., travel, living expenses during line training (You can, and will be bounced around any of the soon to be 19 European bases to fly with an available line trainer), licensing expenses, Uniform, Airport ID cards, Food and water during your line training flights and various sundries, I think I easily spent closer to €35,000.
2. Is the wannabe employed during training? If so, who by?
The Wannabe will be employed on, and I quote from the contratc, a "fixed-term training contract" which "It must be clearly understood is a fixed-term contract only and that should a permanent position be available within Ryanair.. you will be considered for that position..."
3. What salary and/or allowances are payable to the wannabe during the training phase?
£890 GBP a month net, or in Euro Bases, a Gross Salary of €15,000
4. At what point does the wannabe become employed by Ryanair or Brookfields?
A permanent contract is offered at some point after line check. The time scale varies hugely, some have been left on trainee/fixed term contract for up to 6 months, with no reasonable explanation from Ryanair. Conversely, some who were taken on on the basis of a permanent contract were told once they had done their sim that "No permanent positions are available, you must become a brookfield contractor"
5. What is the intial rate of pay, and what steps does that salary take in the first three years? How has this changed over the past few years?
Initial pay once the fixed term contract is up (ie After your initial line check) is €18,000 gross plus half sector pay of about €1K nett a month, after 6 months its full sector pay. After that is anyone's guess, there are no published salary scales, every base and every Pilot can be on a different contract. Nobody except management know for sure
How have these salaries changed? Well Lets look at the last five years. A friend started as a S/O in 2000 and made €4000 net a month. He is now a Line trainer and makes €6000 a month. Says it all really! There is a constant undertow of sliding T&Cs, I would say of at least 5-10% a year.
6. What are the arrangements for non-flying periodic training (SEP, simulator etc)?
Again with Ryanair, it depends! I am based in a continental European base. I get a ticket booked, a Hire Car and free petrol, and Hotel paid for me going to the sim. If I was based in STN I would get nothing. They have to pay for B&B and get themselves there.
7. What are the details of the roster arrangements? How do they relate to easyJet (for example)?
The only reason, in my opinion, that Ryanair keeps people. Roster is the best out there if you want a steady life. 5 days on 3 off, set in concrete all year around. Again, depending on which of the many flavours of contracts you are on! If Brookfield you will either by 5/4 if assigned a base or 5/5 if a floating pilot, in a different base every week. Easy now have 5/3, 5/4.
8. What arrangements are there to protect the pilot in case of long term sickness, loss of licence, or retirement (ie pension)?
Nothing, nada, zip. Since we are "the highest paid Pilots in Europe" we can easily afford these out of our substantial pay cheques. There used to be Pensions and LOL insurance but these were taken away by a memo posted on the internal staff website, with no mechanisim available to staff to fight it.
9. What other benefits are paid or applied to the contract?
Benefits none. The Big carrot that they dangle is a quick command. Young wannabees seem happy to sign their life away for the "Zero to Hero" three year command, with the prospect of being a Line Training Captain in about another three years.
10. What are the prospects for union representation within the company?
Difficult question. BALPA in conjuction with REPA have agreed to help the Pilots in UK bases with a union recognition campaign. Both BALPA and especially IALPA are putting in sterling work to help the Pilots help themselves.
However at a meeting in STN today to discuss a new paydeal (Note the phraseology, Deal, not the word contract as in legally binding) the director of flight ops threatened that if union recognition was forced on Ryanair they would retaliate by changing our days off to 5/2. Why "Because I can".And as was also made clear under questioning of another member of management 'THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES', ie if Ryanair don't like what they're giving us they'll change it.
Further insight into company culture if ever it were needed
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fed up
You know what, I am fed up of this place. People leave posts of their experiences so that others may have some idea, and all that happens is others come on and brand you a lier or idiot.
I have tried my best to be honest, but it seems for some people that is not good enough.
Good luck to everyone, and indervidually, if you have any questions i will answer them as best i can on a PM basis, but other then that, I am fed up with PPrune. Its worse then a playground.
I have tried my best to be honest, but it seems for some people that is not good enough.
Good luck to everyone, and indervidually, if you have any questions i will answer them as best i can on a PM basis, but other then that, I am fed up with PPrune. Its worse then a playground.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jayc004 it would be better to address the issues that others raise than to say "I give up and I'm going home to play".
I challenged something you said above. I think I am very obviously correct. You could have come back and given an explanation or challenged what I had to say. That is free speach.
However, you may be responding to the post by Carmoisine (who I think is "on the money" in his posts). If you are, may I just make a point to you as a Ryanair pilot?
It is possible to be able to truthfully describe a wide range of experiences, pay and conditions if you are a Ryanair pilot. I do not doubt the broad truthfulness of what you have had to say, but I most definitely do not accept all of your assessment (e.g. 900 hours) or any suggestion that your experience is the definitive Ryanair experience.
That, as I see it, is the point. Ryanair need "737-800 rating fodder" into their machine. All points of view need to be expressed here to help them decide. What decision people make is their own business. But you cannot claim that YOU alone are right and that the rest of us are wrong.
This all suggests to me that you have a lot to learn about Ryanair. Speak to some of those who have been around for a long time. It might help you a lot.
I challenged something you said above. I think I am very obviously correct. You could have come back and given an explanation or challenged what I had to say. That is free speach.
However, you may be responding to the post by Carmoisine (who I think is "on the money" in his posts). If you are, may I just make a point to you as a Ryanair pilot?
It is possible to be able to truthfully describe a wide range of experiences, pay and conditions if you are a Ryanair pilot. I do not doubt the broad truthfulness of what you have had to say, but I most definitely do not accept all of your assessment (e.g. 900 hours) or any suggestion that your experience is the definitive Ryanair experience.
That, as I see it, is the point. Ryanair need "737-800 rating fodder" into their machine. All points of view need to be expressed here to help them decide. What decision people make is their own business. But you cannot claim that YOU alone are right and that the rest of us are wrong.
This all suggests to me that you have a lot to learn about Ryanair. Speak to some of those who have been around for a long time. It might help you a lot.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd like to thank those of you who have attempted to answer my questions. I hope your answers will help those who are considering making their first airline career position at Ryanair.
It is patently obvious to me that there are, or recently have been, a variety of contracts used for new hires, and that the conditions applied to and resulting from these contracts can be very different depending on your experience and/or location - or even the day you were hired! I would advise anyone contemplating Ryanair to look very carefully at what's on offer; it may well not be what you expected or were led to believe, either by the company or those who went before you.
For those of you who'd rather hurl invective and abuse than discuss the topic, your posts will be deleted without notice.
Scroggs
It is patently obvious to me that there are, or recently have been, a variety of contracts used for new hires, and that the conditions applied to and resulting from these contracts can be very different depending on your experience and/or location - or even the day you were hired! I would advise anyone contemplating Ryanair to look very carefully at what's on offer; it may well not be what you expected or were led to believe, either by the company or those who went before you.
For those of you who'd rather hurl invective and abuse than discuss the topic, your posts will be deleted without notice.
Scroggs
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: limbo
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember reading your posts as a Wannabee Scroggs I thought you were terribly arrogant and dismissive at times. I thought you were a bit out of touch with the realities of the wannabee world, sitting happy in a nice job with arguably the best employer in the biz. I could barely bear to read sometimes.
I realise now that the arrogance was on my side, and to be honest I cringe when I read posts now from people like Jinkster and jayc004. To be honest I was equally glib and naive when I marched out of my type rating, not a wet day in the industry.
We are cutting our throats for the future. The damage that has been done may bever be undone and is now affecting every other airline. Those of us that went in with the attitude of "I'll leave with 2000 hrs Jet time" soon wake up to the reality that in an airline with 1500+ Pilots there simply aren't jobs for all of us to go to, and you are stuck for two years on a basic salary of 18,000 Euro with debts over 100,000 Euro.
I eagerly await Jayc004 and Jinksters posts in 12-24 months time with their feelings then. Except I can't imagine there wil be any posts. It is very hard to admit publicly that you made a mistake.
I realise now that the arrogance was on my side, and to be honest I cringe when I read posts now from people like Jinkster and jayc004. To be honest I was equally glib and naive when I marched out of my type rating, not a wet day in the industry.
We are cutting our throats for the future. The damage that has been done may bever be undone and is now affecting every other airline. Those of us that went in with the attitude of "I'll leave with 2000 hrs Jet time" soon wake up to the reality that in an airline with 1500+ Pilots there simply aren't jobs for all of us to go to, and you are stuck for two years on a basic salary of 18,000 Euro with debts over 100,000 Euro.
I eagerly await Jayc004 and Jinksters posts in 12-24 months time with their feelings then. Except I can't imagine there wil be any posts. It is very hard to admit publicly that you made a mistake.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Salop
Age: 57
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carmoisine,
Fair play to you - it takes guts to come on here and tell it like it is and to be humble enough to admit that you think you made a mistake. Hopefully others can (read should) wake up and smell the coffee. When I lived in Canada 6years ago and decided to go from PPL to CPL the industry was a different. Over the years I chipped away and got all the required licences (both in Canada and UK), but by the time I came out of it the game had changed and has been changing ever since, for the worse.
I've been fortunate in that I've been in reasonably well paid jobs and been able to pay for training as I go along, and truth be told could probably afford a 73 TR, but again, trutth be told I feel I've spent enough and would rather spend the money paying off my mortgage and on my family. I want to work for an airline that starts to pick up the tab now, or at least will pay a decent wack with decent T&C's if you are expected to pay for your TR. Sadly rumour has it that now Eastern want wannabees to pay 12.5k for J41 TR, and as well as I am aware they have a great reputation, their salaries don't allow you to pay off the TR overnight, in fact, I'd struggle living on the salary never mind paying off the TR. Anyway, point being, we're virtually working for free for a considerable amount of time servicing these TR repayments and I simply can't indulge it. Net result - the choice of airlines I can happily apply to grows smaller and smaller.
Fear not - every cloud has a silver lining, at least I'm saving more and more on stamps !!
Anyway, to all those who've gone down the FR route - hope things work out for you all.
CG.
Fair play to you - it takes guts to come on here and tell it like it is and to be humble enough to admit that you think you made a mistake. Hopefully others can (read should) wake up and smell the coffee. When I lived in Canada 6years ago and decided to go from PPL to CPL the industry was a different. Over the years I chipped away and got all the required licences (both in Canada and UK), but by the time I came out of it the game had changed and has been changing ever since, for the worse.
I've been fortunate in that I've been in reasonably well paid jobs and been able to pay for training as I go along, and truth be told could probably afford a 73 TR, but again, trutth be told I feel I've spent enough and would rather spend the money paying off my mortgage and on my family. I want to work for an airline that starts to pick up the tab now, or at least will pay a decent wack with decent T&C's if you are expected to pay for your TR. Sadly rumour has it that now Eastern want wannabees to pay 12.5k for J41 TR, and as well as I am aware they have a great reputation, their salaries don't allow you to pay off the TR overnight, in fact, I'd struggle living on the salary never mind paying off the TR. Anyway, point being, we're virtually working for free for a considerable amount of time servicing these TR repayments and I simply can't indulge it. Net result - the choice of airlines I can happily apply to grows smaller and smaller.
Fear not - every cloud has a silver lining, at least I'm saving more and more on stamps !!
Anyway, to all those who've gone down the FR route - hope things work out for you all.
CG.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For all you wannabies looking for a job at Ryr, I will just tell you what I got told by the then Personnel Manager in Dubin (he's not working there anymore, which is a shame because he was one of the more honest managers there).
He sat me down for the interview, asked me the basic stuff, "why do you want to work here?" "what experience have you got?" yada yada, then at the end just said to me straight (I might paraphrase in places) -
"Ryanair is hard work. You'll feel it after two years, and you should be looking for a way out before 5 years is up. We work you hard, and you'll feel like we treat you **** (he actually said this), but it's a job, we pay you, and if you don't expect much you'll be alright."
Now I've been in a few years, I can tell you, in my opinion, Ryr would certainly benefit from a union. The management DO push it as far as they can... and what they propose now is unfair and the current system of arbitration through the Irish courts is slow, weighted in the company's favour and almost impossible for the individual to take on by themselves i.e. the company virtually gets away with murder, they know it, and they even have the gall to wave it in our faces.
I know how hard it is to get that first job. I was out in the cold for 3 years before landing my first job (which wasn't ryr at first), I know if it's the first rung on the ladder and if it's easier to get onto you don't want to be told you shouldn't. Just take heed of what the Personnel Manager told me except don't think finding another job after some jet time will be any easier - plenty of others have the same or more experience and you may well end up being stuck here. If you still want to come here, be of the mind you have to make this the best place to work you can - and in my opinon, many voices together are louder than just one alone.
He sat me down for the interview, asked me the basic stuff, "why do you want to work here?" "what experience have you got?" yada yada, then at the end just said to me straight (I might paraphrase in places) -
"Ryanair is hard work. You'll feel it after two years, and you should be looking for a way out before 5 years is up. We work you hard, and you'll feel like we treat you **** (he actually said this), but it's a job, we pay you, and if you don't expect much you'll be alright."
Now I've been in a few years, I can tell you, in my opinion, Ryr would certainly benefit from a union. The management DO push it as far as they can... and what they propose now is unfair and the current system of arbitration through the Irish courts is slow, weighted in the company's favour and almost impossible for the individual to take on by themselves i.e. the company virtually gets away with murder, they know it, and they even have the gall to wave it in our faces.
I know how hard it is to get that first job. I was out in the cold for 3 years before landing my first job (which wasn't ryr at first), I know if it's the first rung on the ladder and if it's easier to get onto you don't want to be told you shouldn't. Just take heed of what the Personnel Manager told me except don't think finding another job after some jet time will be any easier - plenty of others have the same or more experience and you may well end up being stuck here. If you still want to come here, be of the mind you have to make this the best place to work you can - and in my opinon, many voices together are louder than just one alone.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: belize
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carmoisine-
thanks for your great post on the ryanair topic. im interviewing with them in east mids in about 2 weeks for a cadet position.i just have a few questions and would appreciate it if you could answer them!
Its good to finally actually get some real answers on pprune...can be a pain in the ass people posting complaints/wrong info.
After interview-how long was it before you started type rating? were they in a hurry to get you in?
once you finished type rating, did you have to wait long before being told where you were doing line training?? how long were you on line training for and did you have a stable base doing it or get shuffled all over europe?!
and once line training is done- hows is life as an S/O with ryanair? you happy there? enjoying it?! im under no illusions about life there-i know ill be messed around at some stage but once im enjoying it i dont care!
aah-one last question....sounds silly but food on board? presume you bring all your own sandwiches or whatever?! is it still pay for tea/coffee?!
thanks very much
geoff
thanks for your great post on the ryanair topic. im interviewing with them in east mids in about 2 weeks for a cadet position.i just have a few questions and would appreciate it if you could answer them!
Its good to finally actually get some real answers on pprune...can be a pain in the ass people posting complaints/wrong info.
After interview-how long was it before you started type rating? were they in a hurry to get you in?
once you finished type rating, did you have to wait long before being told where you were doing line training?? how long were you on line training for and did you have a stable base doing it or get shuffled all over europe?!
and once line training is done- hows is life as an S/O with ryanair? you happy there? enjoying it?! im under no illusions about life there-i know ill be messed around at some stage but once im enjoying it i dont care!
aah-one last question....sounds silly but food on board? presume you bring all your own sandwiches or whatever?! is it still pay for tea/coffee?!
thanks very much
geoff