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Old 8th Feb 2013, 23:48   #21 (permalink)
 
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I was in your exact same position about 6 years ago, have a degree in aeronautical engineering but three quarters the way through I was pretty much ready to throw in the towel as having done work placement for 8 months in the planning department of a large base maintenance company I decided sitting at a desk all day just wasn't for me.

Logically speaking I'd done 3 years in college and only had one left so though it was better to take one more year off my future than have wasted the previous three, plus it definitely looks better that you have the commitment to finish what you started as when going for an apprenticeship the biggest question a company will have is will you stick with it despite the opportunity of getting "better" jobs with your qualification.

I'm currently an apprentice now at 25 and didn't have any difficulty getting it although from what your saying it does seem to be a bit harder in the UK although a lot of companies seem to be taking apprentices that are older these days. It'll never do any harm to have the degree although it won't help that much at the moment.

I can't see any straight forward way of getting where you want to be without doing an apprenticeship, but thats not to say that it can't be done.
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Old 9th Feb 2013, 12:25   #22 (permalink)
 
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I note that the Monarch appentice scheme mentioned by Spannersatcx does not appear to have an age limit.
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Old 9th Feb 2013, 19:23   #23 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I note that the Monarch appentice scheme mentioned by Spannersatcx does not appear to have an age limit.
Most airlines dont specify age. However, you're more likely to get it if you're 19 or under.

Its to do with government funding.

If you do some digging you'll see what im getting at. And i dont agree with it one bit.
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Old 9th Feb 2013, 19:36   #24 (permalink)
 
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The Virign Atlantic Apprenticeship takes you through the B modules so Im not sure if the Monarch one is the same, It's worth applying for it all the same and trying.

Best thing to do regarding GA is trying to get around the local airfields during the week if possible (as many GA Maintenenace Hangars are not open at the weekend) and start asking some questions get your name out and explain your situation, where abouts in West Mids are you?
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Old 9th Feb 2013, 20:32   #25 (permalink)
 
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The Virign Atlantic Apprenticeship takes you through the B modules so Im not sure if the Monarch one is the same, It's worth applying for it all the same and trying.
Monarch do Cat A1 as far as I am aware.

Thomson put their apprentices through the Cat A1 modules as well.

Last edited by The90sAME; 9th Feb 2013 at 20:33.
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Old 12th Feb 2013, 14:08   #26 (permalink)
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I'm sorry for the slow reply, been a bit hectic at uni in the last few days.

The90sAME: That's what I've found with Flybe, applicants from 16 to 18 get the whole training course for free due to government funding. As for the Monarch apprenticeship, it is only to Cat A1 they don't do the B1 training it is all down to the individual to get the B1 licence. Which means I might as well plough ahead with the B1 exams during the summer holidays.

banditb6: I'm in Birmingham so I could look at Coventry Airport as they have a few flying clubs there as well as a few airfields around Stratford-Upon-Avon. I've already been told by Virgin Atlantic that they won't even look at me for their apprenticeship as a graduate, as I am 'overqualified'. I can't stand hearing that phrase anymore, it's really starting to annoy me that I am really seriously determined to follow this career path yet people are telling me I can't do an apprenticeship just because I've spent three years learning the theory behind aerospace engineering!
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Old 14th Feb 2013, 10:41   #27 (permalink)
 
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Hi Phil,
I am also an Aero BEng Student at Liverpool. Before that, I did an apprenticeship and am now an aero engine mechanic with a little bit of work experience and, in total, three years in industry. Included in my apprenticeship was the training course for A1 and A2 licences. Unfortunately, I am still missing one module, because my employer/training organisation didn't do any airframe work and therefore I couldn't satisfy the requirements for practical experience.

I came to my decision to study aerospace engineering when I realised that all my apprenticeship could get me (at that particular company, but I wasn't really interested in MRO, so not too many options after all...) was maybe five interesting years of work, where I could have gained experience working in a specific engine programme (more than one if I was really lucky). After those years, it would just become increasingly dull, up to the point where it's just "same s#!t, different day"... However, that doesn't have to be the case, if your (future) employer appreciates that you're keen on going above and beyond the call of duty, you're eager to learn something every single day and eventually master your craft, rather than just being a mere executor of assigned tasks. Many companies tend to dumb down work, so that they can hire less skilled people and pay them less.

Even though I finished my apprenticeship top of my class, even came out on top of all 2012 apprentices in that particular sector, I was quite gutted when I realised that my employer couldn't be bothered to get me a job where I could demonstrate my ability, even though I was well on the go, asking everyone for interesting job opportunities. I received an offer to join a mobile repair team almost six(!) months after I had enquired... Needless to say I had to turn it down, as I was going to move to L'pool just a few weeks later.

My first year (so far) has been quite interesting and extremely frustrating at the same time and I have been thinking about dropping out more than just once. But I think all in all it is a good degree, and with just 17 months to go I'd definitely stay! There's more to aerospace and aviation than just MRO! If you like, we could meet up and chat about our experience, just PM me if you like.

Good luck!

Last edited by theturbofantastic; 17th Feb 2013 at 18:41.
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Old 24th Feb 2013, 00:38   #28 (permalink)
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I have recently decided to start up a blog, the reasons being to primarily try and gain any sort of notice from people in the industry (bit of a long shot) but also to try and inform people searching the net for the same information as me about what I have found out. From the careers advice I received at school I know that people can easily be led in the wrong direction and no one apart from on here has told me how it actually is, so I want to try and help people out. It's going ok so far I've got a few hits from around the world but I want to drum up some more hits, and I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions from anyone one here who has done a blog or even if any of you hear about anyone needing help with the same issues as me point them in that direction.

I've sent out more emails including to eurojets the private jet company at Birmingham airport to see if they can help with any experience etc.

Thanks everyone for the advice and help so far.

Here's the blog page:

https://philwilliamsblog.wordpress.com
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Old 24th Feb 2013, 10:49   #29 (permalink)
 
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Why are you dismissing the Monarch A1 apprentice course? The problem you have is gaining experience. Just doing the B1/B2 modules without experience is a waste of time. You need to get a foot in the door, if that means becoming an A1 mechanic/technician for a while then grab it with both hands, get some experience and slog on with the B licence modules. That is how most of us did it. It took me 6 years from finishing my apprenticeship to get my A & C licence. It's a hard slog but worth it. Good luck.


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Old 24th Feb 2013, 12:17   #30 (permalink)
 
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Agree with TURIN, the hardest part is getting the experience, even for ex RAF like myself, who found about half the modules were more revision than actually new. Even with the maximum dispensation of experience down to a year, with the various employers I had, it took me almost 3 years to get a basic AML without lying on tasks to make sure it got through the CAA (getting engine experience was the hardest). It has taken me another 18 months to find an employer willing to put me on a type course and drive me though the rating OJT (They have to for my post, other employers that don't have to, won't and I have seen that in other places). Most apprenticeships only do up to cat A, some don't even do that (one place I know only did C&Gs, equalivent to Cat A , but not actually an EASA ticket!) I know of only one apprenticeship course at Lasham, where the guys did the B modules, that was some time ago and I don't know if it continued.
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Old 24th Feb 2013, 17:19   #31 (permalink)
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I am not dismissing monarch completely but they take 4 years and in their own words in the reply I got back from them, they do not guarantee achieving an A licence after the four years. Virgin atlantic do an apprenticeship for three years where they get a B licence from it. I am currently building up my experience during my holidays at Birmingham Airport.

I am only saying that at the moment monarch is not my first choice and won't be my first choice if I can find somewhere that gets me a B licence. Working towards my modules is the advice I have taken from the majority on here and also the line maintenance manager who has helped me get my experience so far and during further university holidays. I am merely trying to find a route into the profession and ideally the quickest and 4 years at monarch after three years at uni and not guaranteeing getting an A licence doesn't appeal to me.

Some people won't like my approach and I am not saying it is the best but after going to uni at the moment I feel like I'm three years behind where I could be in my career. The more of the application process and experience I can do/get whilst at university the better in my opinion and if I can find a fitters job straight after uni to complete my experience then that's great.

The frustration I have stems from airlines telling me I can't do their apprenticeship after uni as I am 'overqualified'.
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Old 24th Feb 2013, 19:10   #32 (permalink)
 
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Bristow currently advertising for apprentices on their job site.

I doubt you will get a better opportunity than that.
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Old 24th Feb 2013, 23:56   #33 (permalink)
 
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Phil, if you think you can become a licensed aircraft engineer in 3 years I should start looking at a new career if I were you.
A four year apprenticeship plus several years gaining experience is NORMAL.
You may well be a clever bugger, pass the written modules with ease but without learning from your peers the stuff they don't teach in college you have got no chance.



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Old 25th Feb 2013, 10:09   #34 (permalink)
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Turin: I'm not saying I definitely can become an LAE in 3 years all I have said is that if Virgin Atlantic do an apprenticeship of 3 years and achieve a B licence from it and Monarch do an apprenticeship of 4 years and you MIGHT achieve an A licence which would you pick?

I fully understand there is a lot to learn, I am in no way suggesting that my degree puts me ahead at all as I know for fact from what I have learnt on my degree so far is useless for an LAE job. I'm not here trying to make it sound like I can easily get into a job because I can't all I want to do is rectify the mistake of going to uni instead of an apprenticeship.

3 years is the figure I have got as I have looked at paid courses and apprenticeships and seen that usually 3 year ones get you a B licence with Virgin Atlantic and Emirates and with two universities with an aircraft maintenance degree for example.

I came on here to look for help, advice and guidance. I will not be told to look for a new career path because you think you can't get a licence in three years. Becoming an LAE that's different as after the licence I know you need type-ratings and you're always learning on the job.

So basically to summarise no I will not look for a new career and yes you can get a licence in three years and I never said that would cover everything to becoming an LAE.

Last edited by philw492; 25th Feb 2013 at 10:49.
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Old 26th Feb 2013, 00:02   #35 (permalink)
 
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Phil.
Go get your "paid for" B license. Spend 3 years doing it, then see how many job offers you get.
A four year apprenticeship with Monarch will get you more chance of employment, whether you come out of it with C & Gs, A1 or a B2.
Good luck, I think you may need it.



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Old 26th Feb 2013, 12:24   #36 (permalink)
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How is it just a "paid for" B licence? If airlines offer a 3 years B licence then obviously they appreciate it. Emirates themselves have said that after three years their students who complete the course get jobs with airlines including themselves, BA, Qantas, various air forces and more.

I don't understand why you've decided to make the three year B licence courses seem not as worthy as a 4 year A licence course. Okay you get more experience before getting a B licence but if airlines offer it and airlines take people on from it, what is wrong with me choosing it?

All I am doing is assessing my options and many people on here have told me to get my B licence. You might have a different opinion, it doesn't mean that because you don't think it's the right route that I am suddenly needing luck and making it sound like I am stupid to choose it.
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Old 26th Feb 2013, 13:07   #37 (permalink)
 
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How is it just a "paid for" B licence? If airlines offer a 3 years B licence then obviously they appreciate it. Emirates themselves have said that after three years their students who complete the course get jobs with airlines including themselves, BA, Qantas, various air forces and more.
And

Quote:
3 years is the figure I have got as I have looked at paid courses and apprenticeships and seen that usually 3 year ones get you a B licence with Virgin Atlantic and Emirates and with two universities with an aircraft maintenance degree for example.
ALL the LAEs I know worked UNDER LAEs for many, many years while learning the trade before even attempting the Licence.

People these days seem to think they can get a B1/B2 one way or another, and THEN get the experience required to use it.
It's all arse about face.

A three year B1 apprenticeship may well get you a licence at the end but at what cost? In three years, how much hands on experience do you think you are going to get if you are doing a full B1 classroom course?

You have done a few weeks work experience. You have barely scratched the surface.

If you want to become an LAE then you need to learn the job FIRST.

Good luck.
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Old 26th Feb 2013, 13:12   #38 (permalink)
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Finish you BEng and find a job that will finance you through flight training. Honestly, its a much better career route
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Old 26th Feb 2013, 13:38   #39 (permalink)
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But Turin the problem is the only way to learn the job is to do the courses or an apprenticeship. I have had a massive amount of luck already to gain a place getting experience during my holidays. But every other person and airline I have emailed has told me they can't help. How do you expect anyone to learn the job if they get turned away?

I know I haven't scratched the surface I never claimed to have known everything about it but I have gone and got as much experience as I possibly could so far because of the limited amount of experience opportunities available.

The fact of the matter is airlines offer the courses/apprenticeships to gain B licensed engineers. With this qualification and type-ratings you can legally work on aircraft. Airlines want B licensed engineers, there is no other route in and there is nothing wrong with the 3 year B licensed route otherwise what's the point in airlines offering it and spending all the money on training people?
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Old 26th Feb 2013, 13:40   #40 (permalink)
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Black sheep: I'm sure you're popular suggesting that on the engineers and technician's page
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