Bye Bye XP?
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Essentially I say what Andy_P said.
I would add that you have to look at it in the context of Windows 7, in that when Windows 7 was introduced, Windows XP was still supported.... so the XP feature was introduced to ease the migration pain. However, now Windows 8 is the current version of the system people should have by now really been fully migrated over to Windows 7 and no longer be relying on the XP VM.
So yes, in essence, you should not be using Windows 7 XP Mode just as you should not be using Windows XP. In particular I would highlight the following bit from Andy's post ...
"Should" being the operative word.... there are exploits out there that can figure out they are in a virtualised environment and actively seek to work around that temporary obstacle in their path.
In the end we're talking about software virtualisation here, so the segregation is only as good as the memory management (and other aspects).
I would add that you have to look at it in the context of Windows 7, in that when Windows 7 was introduced, Windows XP was still supported.... so the XP feature was introduced to ease the migration pain. However, now Windows 8 is the current version of the system people should have by now really been fully migrated over to Windows 7 and no longer be relying on the XP VM.
So yes, in essence, you should not be using Windows 7 XP Mode just as you should not be using Windows XP. In particular I would highlight the following bit from Andy's post ...
and any vulnerabilities should remain in the 'sandboxed' guest OS..
In the end we're talking about software virtualisation here, so the segregation is only as good as the memory management (and other aspects).
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Andy - very helpful, thanks. It would seem that those of us who wish to continue running those 'older' programmes should make sure that internet access is not available for them to be sure. Other than something like Zone Alarm where each internet connection has to be 'approved', is there any other safe way? The problem lies in being certain that any particular prog does not try to connect.
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mixture to be honest I think your screwed. It doesn't matter how much the IT pros go on about it there will be millions and millions of XP computers out there for years and years.
The rest of you take a clone of your hard disk as the last update goes through in fact make 2.
Keep your data on an external disk and have a plan how your going to clean it. Then if you get anything clone back the OS and clean the data disk before plugging it back in.
This is either going to go three ways.
1. The whole of the internet will be screwed when the next big one goes through and MS won't do a thing.
2. Same as 1 but MS sorts it out mainly because they are supporting huge corporate XP setups anyway.
3. Bugger all will happen.
The rest of you take a clone of your hard disk as the last update goes through in fact make 2.
Keep your data on an external disk and have a plan how your going to clean it. Then if you get anything clone back the OS and clean the data disk before plugging it back in.
This is either going to go three ways.
1. The whole of the internet will be screwed when the next big one goes through and MS won't do a thing.
2. Same as 1 but MS sorts it out mainly because they are supporting huge corporate XP setups anyway.
3. Bugger all will happen.
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Other than something like Zone Alarm where each internet connection has to be 'approved', is there any other safe way? The problem lies in being certain that any particular prog does not try to connect.
When we say disconnected .... we mean DISCONNECTED.
i.e. never, ever , ever connected to the internet ever again ... I don't care if its only sometimes/intermittently/whatever...... we mean NEVER connected.
As I've said time and time again.... I don't care what third party "security" tools (e.g. Zone Alarm) you are thinking of running on your obsolete good for nothing XP system.... they are ALL vulnerable because the operating system and system APIs they rely on are vulnerable. You wouldn't build a house on weak foundations in the middle of a boggy swamp-like field.... well that's exactly what you're proposing when you're thinking of running "security" software on XP after April the 8th..... its utterly pointless.
mixture to be honest I think your screwed. It doesn't matter how much the IT pros go on about it there will be millions and millions of XP computers out there for years and years.
Thanks very much indeed.
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That about sums it up btw i don`t own an xp machine. But everyday i work with them. They are provided for me and I know there is no plan to change them until the unit is replaced.
Unless there is a free upgrade path and even then i suspect alot won`t bother people will stay with it.
And they really won`t care how much it costs the pro`s
Lets face it there is still 30% of internet connections in feb are xp. You will be lucky if that drops below 25% by the cut off date. MS must be pooing themselves a bit because this could get quite spectacularly silly very quickly. As i bet there will be something just waiting to be released on that day. If i was synical i might even say MS would have an input into it.
Unless there is a free upgrade path and even then i suspect alot won`t bother people will stay with it.
And they really won`t care how much it costs the pro`s
Lets face it there is still 30% of internet connections in feb are xp. You will be lucky if that drops below 25% by the cut off date. MS must be pooing themselves a bit because this could get quite spectacularly silly very quickly. As i bet there will be something just waiting to be released on that day. If i was synical i might even say MS would have an input into it.
Last edited by mad_jock; 24th Mar 2014 at 20:28.
Yeah, and all you clinger on home users sit there and don't give a damn, whilst the rest of us have to spend thousands and expend thousands of man-hours fighting DoS and spam attacks launched by your infested zombie computers against corporate networks and ISP infrastructure.
It seems to me with your ability to cajole and communicate that you might have more luck in setting enforced standards that the millions of us have to follow
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Please read what people ask
You almost got it right, but should have written
well that's exactly what you're proposing when you're thinking of running "security" software on Win7 after April the 8th.
Agreed. My earlier post was not read properly (even though I typed it very slowly 
), and a totally false assumption and useless response resulted.
One thing really worries about these promises of the end of the world for anyone who turns on an XP computer connected to the WWW on the morning of the 9th April.
They are asserted with such confidence that I find myself wondering if those who make them aren't in the know in some degree or another with the people who are writing these nasties. The more I read about this, the harder it becomes to evade that conclusion. I'm sorry about that, it's almost certainly the case that they aren't, but given the absolute confidence of those assertions it is becoming ever more difficult to dismiss an uneasy connection.
Fact is that millions of XP computers will be going on line on April 9th just as the were on the 8th. No amount of gentle coaxing otherwise within these peaceful walls will change that. If the online world comes to an end as a consequence, the media will go for the obvious target and it won't be pretty for the big M.
FOR
), and a totally false assumption and useless response resulted.One thing really worries about these promises of the end of the world for anyone who turns on an XP computer connected to the WWW on the morning of the 9th April.
They are asserted with such confidence that I find myself wondering if those who make them aren't in the know in some degree or another with the people who are writing these nasties. The more I read about this, the harder it becomes to evade that conclusion. I'm sorry about that, it's almost certainly the case that they aren't, but given the absolute confidence of those assertions it is becoming ever more difficult to dismiss an uneasy connection.
Fact is that millions of XP computers will be going on line on April 9th just as the were on the 8th. No amount of gentle coaxing otherwise within these peaceful walls will change that. If the online world comes to an end as a consequence, the media will go for the obvious target and it won't be pretty for the big M.
FOR
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Andy - very helpful, thanks. It would seem that those of us who wish to continue running those 'older' programmes should make sure that internet access is not available for them to be sure. Other than something like Zone Alarm where each internet connection has to be 'approved', is there any other safe way? The problem lies in being certain that any particular prog does not try to connect.
In saying that, I use a program that wont run under Win7 at all. I could upgrade (its protel, electronic design software) but I just dont use it enough these days to justify the cost. Plus the new sofware is subscription based, you pay $8000pa. So its just not worth the upgrade. I digress..
Yes, you should avoid the internet if possible. The connection to the internet is also sandboxed, so it has to run through the host OS's firewall, so once again there is some protection. If you can, you should block XP mode from connecting to the internet. As mixture said, its possible for someone to exploit the Virtual machine and attack the host, but provided you keep the host patched and run up-to-date virus software you should be fairly safe.
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It seems to me with your ability to cajole and communicate that you might have more luck in setting enforced standards that the millions of us have to follow
You pay me, I'll happily sit there hold your hand and dance around on eggshells waffling away paragraphs of nicely composed rose-tinted advice....
However, expect me to give you advice for free when you don't even fall into the "family & friends" category ? Sure I'll spend a little time here giving you advice, and of course it will be technically accurate..... but its going to be brief and to the point, I'm not going to beat about the bush.
And when it comes to certain topics, like Windows XP. There is no debate to be had.... no matter who you ask in the technical community, pro, anti or neutral Microsoft .... the answer will be the same you are taking substantial risks running XP after its expiry in April. I really fail to see what's so difficult to grasp about the concepts, and why the complaints about something Microsoft have given you years of notice for ! You've had the time to prepare, now just bite that darn bullet and make the switch !
None of the XP clinger-ons on this forum has demonstrated to me an ounce of viable justification as to why they must continue using XP other than their pure stubbornness....
Its simple....
You pay me, I'll happily sit there hold your hand and dance around on eggshells waffling away paragraphs of nicely composed rose-tinted advice....
However, expect me to give you advice for free when you don't even fall into the "family & friends" category ? Sure I'll spend a little time here giving you advice, and of course it will be technically accurate..... but its going to be brief and to the point, I'm not going to beat about the bush.
And when it comes to certain topics, like Windows XP. There is no debate to be had.... no matter who you ask in the technical community, pro, anti or neutral Microsoft .... the answer will be the same you are taking substantial risks running XP after its expiry in April. I really fail to see what's so difficult to grasp about the concepts, and why the complaints about something Microsoft have given you years of notice for ! You've had the time to prepare, now just bite that darn bullet and make the switch !
None of the XP clinger-ons on this forum has demonstrated to me an ounce of viable justification as to why they must continue using XP other than their pure stubbornness....
You pay me, I'll happily sit there hold your hand and dance around on eggshells waffling away paragraphs of nicely composed rose-tinted advice....
However, expect me to give you advice for free when you don't even fall into the "family & friends" category ? Sure I'll spend a little time here giving you advice, and of course it will be technically accurate..... but its going to be brief and to the point, I'm not going to beat about the bush.
And when it comes to certain topics, like Windows XP. There is no debate to be had.... no matter who you ask in the technical community, pro, anti or neutral Microsoft .... the answer will be the same you are taking substantial risks running XP after its expiry in April. I really fail to see what's so difficult to grasp about the concepts, and why the complaints about something Microsoft have given you years of notice for ! You've had the time to prepare, now just bite that darn bullet and make the switch !
None of the XP clinger-ons on this forum has demonstrated to me an ounce of viable justification as to why they must continue using XP other than their pure stubbornness....
It's like my pappy told me, "do it and you will go blind eventually"
While the great majority will keep on using it until they need glasses.
You need to gear up to sell glasses and not advice
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This is a tedious argument.
Personally, I don't think there will be a Big Bang in April. I think what will happen is that those people who say "aww nothing's going to happen, you're scaremongering us" will crow about it for a while and wallow in self-congratulation either that they've dodged a bullet or stuck it to the IT man.
However, slowly but surely there'll be the odd user here and there who'll find their XP machine doesn't work quite right. They'll call their IT guy and get one of two responses: either "XP? Are you mad?", or an IT kid who spends an inordinate amount of time trying to fix the issue only to either have it repeat the very next day or have to admit defeat.
The end user, not knowing their arse from their elbow, will chastise the IT guy for not making it work, and will dismiss the counter-argument of XP being inherently flawed from that moment on as unproven.
It'll therefore be a slow-moving mass of pain to a greater or lesser extent depending upon how much reliance is placed on the system by the end-user, how we'll they've achieved their own updating obligations, and how soon an API exploit becomes generally available.
All in all, it's going to be miserable for all concerned, but to what extent we will have to wait and see.
Personally, I don't think there will be a Big Bang in April. I think what will happen is that those people who say "aww nothing's going to happen, you're scaremongering us" will crow about it for a while and wallow in self-congratulation either that they've dodged a bullet or stuck it to the IT man.
However, slowly but surely there'll be the odd user here and there who'll find their XP machine doesn't work quite right. They'll call their IT guy and get one of two responses: either "XP? Are you mad?", or an IT kid who spends an inordinate amount of time trying to fix the issue only to either have it repeat the very next day or have to admit defeat.
The end user, not knowing their arse from their elbow, will chastise the IT guy for not making it work, and will dismiss the counter-argument of XP being inherently flawed from that moment on as unproven.
It'll therefore be a slow-moving mass of pain to a greater or lesser extent depending upon how much reliance is placed on the system by the end-user, how we'll they've achieved their own updating obligations, and how soon an API exploit becomes generally available.
All in all, it's going to be miserable for all concerned, but to what extent we will have to wait and see.
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Ideally, you should look to update your software so you dont need XP mode. Most stuff should run natively under win7.
But then its not hooked to the internet anymore as I know for a fact its virus ridden
And just run Linux instead
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I don't think they will.
So situation normal then.
Again situation normal. And has been ever since we moved away from terminals onto mainframes. Well to be honest it was like that before then even though I only saw the tail end of them getting removed out of service.
I would say extremely slow moving as the majority don't actually use them for much. If they were high end users they would have upgraded their hardware years ago.
Only way your going to stop people using it is if you make the OS useless for general use.
ie . Change the major web sites such and search engines, social media, mass email system refuse connection and be unusable to XP machines.
BTW I just finished work and in the course of this morning I came across 8 XP machines.
Then again there are quite a few NT4 machines still kicking around and nobody makes a fuss about them. But then again the numbers will be low enough that nobody can be bothered doing anything to stuff them up.
However, slowly but surely there'll be the odd user here and there who'll find their XP machine doesn't work quite right.
So situation normal then.
The end user, not knowing their arse from their elbow, will chastise the IT guy for not making it work, and will dismiss the counter-argument of XP being inherently flawed from that moment on as unproven.
It'll therefore be a slow-moving mass of pain to a greater or lesser extent depending upon how much reliance is placed on the system by the end-user
Only way your going to stop people using it is if you make the OS useless for general use.
ie . Change the major web sites such and search engines, social media, mass email system refuse connection and be unusable to XP machines.
BTW I just finished work and in the course of this morning I came across 8 XP machines.
Then again there are quite a few NT4 machines still kicking around and nobody makes a fuss about them. But then again the numbers will be low enough that nobody can be bothered doing anything to stuff them up.
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Originally Posted by mixture
I'll happily sit there hold your hand and dance around on eggshells waffling away paragraphs of nicely composed rose-tinted advice....
avid reader but unaffected, am on jelly bean contemplating update to kitkat
I just finished work and in the course of this morning I came across 8 XP machines.
Being a nosey person when bored in airports, I looked at what systems were up and running on a recent trip to Siem Reap and Saigon via Bangkok on Thai Air.
Thai are very definitely still using XP.
Getting a bit late for a global change by them........
I predict more customer service issues when they become infected.
Thai are very definitely still using XP.
Getting a bit late for a global change by them........
I predict more customer service issues when they become infected.