Well what to say... It would seem that you are in the know of some facts that I was not part of. And I am sure we do know some of the same people.
You will not find too many ML sympathizers out there. However I have a lot of regard for a good many people I do know working at JetsGo. I will say that a lot of them are looking forward to moving on ... and others are quite happy to be there.
I did come across a bit strong in my previous post. Do not take it personal. I just happen to be aware of a few things at the TEAL shop that I would not post as I have a lot of respect for a lot of people there. You in fact may very well be one of them.
Peace pipes are great, accepted and thanks. I guess all we can do is be spectators in Canada's ever increasinly turbulent airline industry and hope everything works out for everyone, and if by chance any of us are ever at the top of a start up or current airline we can learn from what we read and know and make some good decisions and changes.
WJMan, perhaps yuo can explain this--since you seem to be so up on the goings ons:
3 weeks ago in YEG. Fueling company suspends ops temporarily due to unfit fuel. AC , Jetsgo and WJ at the gates and told they have to de-fuel. AC and Jetsgo are stuck for 5 hours because to de-fuel completely (ie. get rid of even risidual fuel in the low points) requires maintenance and a long time draining.
Yet WJ pushes an hour later!!?? They simply refueled, left the 'unuseable' at the bottom of the tanks and took off.
That is a pretty strong accusation. Do you know for certain that the fuel in the WJ aircraft came from the same supply as the others? If so, you should say so in your posting, otherwise you may want to be very careful what you insinuate.
Well Trader, I would really doubt anyone let alone Westjet would take a chance like that. As was said, what are the facts, are there more than one supplier in YEG?Was the contaminated fuel coming from one specific contaminated tanker or line? I think you would be hard pressed to find any crew who would take an aircraft after they've been told the fuel may be contaminated. I'm sure there is more to this than you are posting. My curosity will get the better of me and I'll probably look into it. Maybe i'll even come back and show you the info you omitted and/or didn't know. Were you there or is this second or third hand. I happen to know the YEG mntc guys very well, can't see them allowing the aircraft to leave under those circumstances either.I also see by your profile you work for Jet'sGO, at least you know where I stand when you read my name. You wouldn't be an old ICC guy would you Trader?
Of course it is a strong accusation--not unlike the ones you have been posting on this thread.
I obviously don't know all the facts because I was not in the WJ cockpit! I do know that all teh aircraft were fueled from the same company and that WJ did defuel, as did AC and Jetsgo. However, AC and Jetsgo were there for 5 hours before they were authorized to gio while WJ spent a little over an hour.
Now, perhaps the 737 has some system that allows it to be drained COMPLETELY with little difficulty.
My accusation is no different than the ones you have spouted off regarding JGO running out of fuel or the stuck elevator etc etc etc. Some may be true but I would guess they are not the FULL facts--just as my post did not have the FULL facts.
But if you are going to spout off about everyone else you had better be prepared to take some.
Quite a few WJers seem quite keen on dragging others through the mud yet can't take the heat when it is sent back.
PS You don't know where I stand!!??????? That is why I put my info in my Bio----I don't need to put in in my handle!
"However, AC and Jetsgo were there for 5 hours before they were authorized to gio while WJ spent a little over an hour"
The difference is WJ has a maintenance base in YEG whereas JetsGo doesn't. In fact we pretty much have a maintenance base everywhere we go that can clear snags and MEL's whereas JetsGo has contract maintenance that can do walkarounds and basic maintenance. As far as AC goes, they may not have had maintenance engineers available in YEG that could clear that kind of problem (paperwork issues). So before spouting off about WestJet not clearing the fuel and taking off, get the facts straight. I could ask you what your completion rates are for flights or how many MEL's you carry around but I've only heard second hand that your maintenance is scary, so I won't mention it. Oh wait, now that I've said it, it must be true.
This is nuts, I just followed some links to other sites and found this same heated argument everywhere. I give up, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. I may have posted things I should have kept to myself and vice versa. It's too easy to get into this. We are all going to choose the side of who hired us, wether we got the job at place we wanted or took the first offer whatever. Aviation is in a state where you take what you can and hope for the best. I think WJ'ers are so high on WJ because as I've said after 8 companies this is the only place that has made the job enjoyable and treats me very very well. I'm sure there are still some who don't like it and the same again at Jet'sGO. The only thing that we do now for sure is that both Westjet, Jet'sGo and AC can't last, Someone will have to close and we could be very surprised at who does. There are many variables at play in each company that could end it. We may end up working together at some point more likely than not so from now on I for one will try to keep it civil. I may hate Michel Leblanc and his cronies for past transgretions but I can't very well heap everyone into the same pile and I know from experience some things are out of employees hands. Good luck once again.
Please show me where I leveled one unfounded accusation against Jetsgo. If you can, I will apologize, otherwise, you owe me one, IMHO. I do not work for Westjet, but I have direct access to their safety manager, and I know how they do business when it comes to safety of operations. They have mtce staff in YEG and I'm sure that things were done "by the book". It does not take five hours to defuel a contaminated 737, if you have the people and the tools in place to do so. The fact that they took less time should tell you something positive about their maintenance capabilities, not the reverse.
I don't mean to be rude, but to quote Shakespeare, "Me thinks you doth protest too much". You may not like it, but Jetsgo has some serious safety issues that must be addressed. The lack of experience in the left seat is one of them, but there are others. Some former Jetsgo employees (they quit, they weren't fired) are telling some pretty frightening tales. I honestly hope that the issues are meaningfully addressed, and soon.
Safety Guy---I was actually commenting on what WJman presented and his accusations. My fault for not being clear.
Lack of experience---WJ has been upgrading in 2 years or less. Would that be considered lack of experience? Lots of guys off turboprops with WJ being their first jet.
"Methinks' my protest comes from the fact that, as I stated in a post above, it seems WJers are very quick to point out perciecved weakness in other company's yet are upset at the same being leveled at them. THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE FIRST POST I MADE. If you look at those other forums it always seems to be a WJer stirring up the rumour mill.
I can just as quickly take an "I heard", extropolate and then post on the internet.
WJman--the fact is I don't like the way Leblanc operates either. But then it is his company. I would also guess that 99% of would get along just fine if we worked together or sat down for a beer.
Pretty dissapointing watching this shytefest. If you guys have been around for anytime at all you have to know that anything can happen to anyone. Never say never. WJman , you should keep this in mind before you start flinging accusations around. Someday you may even find yourself in a embarrasing situation...
I don't know anything about C150 driver, and I have no reason to doubt that he currently flies a 172RG. I did not mean to express doubt; my intention was more a gently sardonic "go nuts!" (i.e., have fun).
Sorry for the confusion caused, albeit inadvertantly.
I can honestly say that I have not had any kind of emergency (knock on wood) in 2 years at jetsgo. Closest thing to an emergency at jetsgo was one of our planes had an engine crapping out comming from the caribbean a few months back (still knocking).
P-thrust...you don't consider an engine failure an emergency??
I guess these are considered incidents either...
--scraping your TRs on landing, then taking off, getting an unsafe light and continuing to fly for another 3 hours...
--dropping 5000 feet out of coffin corner
--having to come back and land VFR because the captain decided to turn off all the IRS's in flight
(1) anyone who has evidence that a specific airline is operating in a dangerous, reckless or negligent manner should make a formal report to Transport Canada's enforcement division, in order that a full investigation may be conducted and the travelling public may be safeguarded (if TC isn't interested, contact the CBC);
(2) anyone who isn't in a position to follow (1) should avoid innuendo, which just leads to hurt feelings.
Therer's no doubt TC has all the documented reports of any (if any) incidents. The rest of the industry knows the score and I'm sure TC does too. But in the interest of competition, I'm afraid it will take a major oops to expose the truth. This country has been brainwashed into thinking that our national carrier's monopoly is such a bad thing that we now find ourselves questioning safety. A few of us had predicted this. Funny how prior to the low-cost euphoria there was seldom any question about safety. May I make only one suggestion, as a group of professionals we have to stick together. If you have a concern about who you work for, do something about it. We'll be our own worst enemies at the rate we're going. Don't let who you work for or how much you get paid affect your profesional integrity.