Jet2 - 3

[MUFC_fan]

I have no doubt the airline will survive (unless bought out) but there is very little chance of going bankrupt.

With an excellent business model that they are trying to extend into long haul and charter. In recent times they have been at the forfront of development into the charter sector and it looks as EZY is starting to take note of what they are doing and trying to implement this into their own model.

As you say, they have a fortress at LBA only matched by BA at LHR and EZY at LGW (based on competiton) and I think that this will be a major strong hold for the airline in 2008.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anybody heard about the 767s coming? Maybe LS are the airline to but MAN back on the map on the long haul market!;)

[MAN Guy]

I think their 737 routes to cities from MAN are numbered and over the coming year I expect to see most or all 737's off to other Jet2 bases for major expansion there. For whatever reason the 737's doing the city runs alongside sunshine stuff hasn't worked out for Jet2 at MAN. To me this does seem strange as since BACON left there were a number of city routes going begging at MAN.

As Easy and Ryanair get their feet in the door at MAN over the next year and picking up more city routes I think Jet2 will end up with just 757's operating to Spain and the Canaries from MAN, and possibly expansion to other sunshine destinations around the med.

[Channex101]

Jet2 are not hiding it that they are moving away from city destinations, they are about to drop KRK and BGO from NCL rumour has it.
They want to go down the charter market, and still seat seat only on those flights. Also long haul is on the cards, rumours are stronger than ever that Jet2 will be having the 767 flying around by the winter, first 767 to test the water in NCL where there is zero competition year round. Apparently they have applied to fly to JFK/EWR 3 days a week but have not specified which UK airport the flight will depart from but if the rumour mill is to be trusted then its LBA to JFK on the 757, possibly the new one form TOM that arrives in summer.
Its all going to be interesting and we shall see what happens but I agree, it wont be long before all 737 leave MAN and its a 757 only base with maybe the 767 joining or at least operating into MAN a few times a week.

[Channex101]

Does anyone know if G-CELS is oping for Easyjet out of BFS?

[14 loop]

Yes....'LS was operating for EZY on the 28th Dec EZY6747 BFS-GVA.

In November 'LS was subbing for EZY from Luton.

[Channex101]

Thought as much as LS hasnt had a Jet2 flight number in ACARS since Dec 3rd, all EZY from BFS

[A320fan]

Love the new Jet2 'weather report' lol Just been on ITV1!

[finding_nema]

Could anybody let me know how Jet2 are finding their self handling stations? I know that they left Servisair at LBA, set up their own operations at MJV and have their own front of house staff at some other bases. Considering that most airlines are out-sourcing their handling, why are Jet2 going the other way and have people found any noticeable improvements, thoughts etc. on all of this?

[MUFC_fan]

In MJV during the summer, most days they have five flights including atleast 2 752s and they often come in within an hour of each other (well, they did last summer) and it was probably better for them to have their own operations out there. I wonder what they did with the staff during winter?

Do LS contract their staff out to other airlines in MJV when they have a quite period? Maybe EZY who don't have many flights there?

Cheers

[IB4138]

Jet 2 have their own staff and dedicated check-in desks at Malaga as well.

[757 Speedbrakes]

I wonder what they did with the staff during winter?



I belive Julie, Catherine, Emma and Jay etc. are all still there for the winter. The local spanish workforce were just taken on for a summer contract.

Apprently the costs of spanish ground handling is stupidly expensive. I don't think Jet2 are allowed to contract their ground handling work out to other UK airlines due to some Spanish law but I could be wrong.

I would like to say that the self handling in Murcia was out of this world. I can't think of a single critisism. The ground crew were all really helpful and cheery, even when stressed dealing with 2 75's and the 73 from EDI all in at the same time.

The avg. 'block-to-block' turnaround time in MJV, for the 757, was 35-40 mins. With a avg pax load of 170-190 per sector thats bloody good. We even beat a Ryanair in and out of MJV (no ATC slots) in a 757. That gave 'em a shock!

Most of our passengers own property around MJV and a friend of mine who is an estate agent used Jet2 7 times last year. That's the sort of pax we should be holding on to and the management should not be affraid to use some 'Bully Boy' tactics on Sleazy and Ryanscare to keep the monopoly on our best routes!!

[Channex101]

Here here 757speedbreaks
I love the MJV route, our pax on that are so nice, i really dont wanna see them going to easyjet.
The groundstaff in MJV are excellent, so friendly! our turn arounds are so quick becuase they have no problem getting on and getting their hands dirty cleaning the aircraft with us! by the time you get half way down the cabin poor Julie is usually halfway up the cabin to meet u! this helps loads!
They team down their are a massive assest, the other self handling bases could take a leaf from their book!

[trebor]

Jet2 also employs staff for their sales and supervision at bases where they dont yet self handle. I think this is also good for a pax point of view. Julie is also station manager for ALC and often comes up to help out and is a pleasure to work for and with.

[tristar500]

Isnt it about time Jet2 and GSM merged, to save their fates?

With easyjet making inroads at MAN and Ryanair at EDI, surely its a good idea to combine and survive the onslought...

[GW76]

Isnt it about time Jet2 and GSM merged
No.

[tristar500]

OK... I rest my case but watch with interest :ok:

[robo283]

Tristar500: How can you rest your case when you haven't made it? Or is it the same case you made for Jet2 on 1st November?

"Expansion will no doubt follow but with caution and when it does, it will also be successful."

I think we should be told :}

[tristar500]

ROBO283 :ugh:

01NOV07 - No word of Ryanair expanding at EDI.
DEC07 - Ryanair announcement of expansion at EDI.

With the 'ongoing' issues at GSM and the recent announcement of easyjet aquiring GBAirways, both GSM and Jet2 are about to face extreme competition at their 2 biggest bases ie GSM - EDI - FR/EZY and Jet2 - MAN - EZY.

Yes, Jet2 are a leading force in the lowcost market, but now the competition has stepped up and a merger would not be a bad thing, bringing together 2 low-cost brands with simillar styles and aircraft, taking on established well-financed operations such as EZY and FR.

Lets just say that easyjet and Ryanair are going to have a field day picking up pax from GSM especially and LS.

Simple, get over it and watch what happens... :ok:

NEXT...

[Yeadon Dam]

Jet2's main base is LBA, not MAN. Currently about 10 aircraft based here this winter, with around 12 needed for Summer 2008. Naff all competition at LBA.

[Mr.Brown]

Jet2's main base is LBA, not MAN. Currently about 10 aircraft based here this winter, with around 12 needed for Summer 2008. Naff all competition at LBA.


Is it true that PM is putting as many aircraft as he can into LBA to stop the airport selling slots to competitors?

Is he trying to circle the wagons at LBA (Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes) now that the likes of EZY are moving into MAN?

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next while at MAN.

[take-off]

well if things arent going so well at man ,why not turn blk into a mini lba:ok:, attack from that side so to speak as well as at man?

[Mr.Brown]

well if things arent going so well at man ,why not turn blk into a mini lba, attack from that side so to speak as well as at man?

Thats an excellent idea, why don't they put 5 B737's into BLK, they can park 2 of them on the beach when the ramp (Small area of tarmac outside flying club) is full of aircraft and do low cost trips up and down the beach with the tourists. Donkeys might get a little upset with the competition and go low cost themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yeadon Dam]

I thought that donkeys had been flying on lo-co flights for years!!!

[682ft AMSL]

Leeds isn't slot regulated so nothing to hoard, buy or sell. A haggle over remote parking is probably about the extent of it.

Jet2 and LBA obviously have a degree of mutual dependancy at the moment and judging by developments since the airport was sold, it would appear both parties have been quick to acknowledge this and put something together which protects both party's interests. There will be key customer markets that LBA management will see as being essential to develop if they are going to generate the capital growth in the value of the business to make their investment worthwhile, but that don't fit the Jet2 model. Having had a quick look at the new routes Ryanair have put on sale from BHX today, I don't envisage Jet2 offering LBA - Billund, Bratislava, Bydgoszcz, Gdansk, Oslo, Poitiers, Porto or Rzeszow anytime soon, nor will they plug the hole in terms of feeder services into key hubs like FRA, MUC or DXB. My own view is that Jet2 might bring some much needed growth into the package holiday sector by acting as a quasi-charter operator and they might be able to do some interesting things with the 757 if ETOPS is secured, but they can't tick every box on LBAs wishlist, nor I suspect do the airport management want an airport based entirely around the fortunes of one operator.

By the way, I'm calling the LBA base as 8 x 737 and 3 x 757 + 1 spare 757 for the summer. MAN looks like 2 x 737 and 3 x 757. The remaining 2 757s I assume are one each in NCL and BFS.

[AIRWAY1UK]

With the Dart group share price trading at around 25% of it's peak around a year ago,are the big boys going to be sniffing around for a bargain?
Im sure certain other low cost operators would like to get a presence at Leeds Bradford International Airport!

[14 loop]

All depends whether the major share holders want to sell their stakes!

[dada]

this will be this years big takeover

[Ivan aromer]

It was not too long ago that there was a thread suggesting the Jet2 might be intrested in buying GS!
Now the suggestion is that ANother might buy Jet2.
With the share price in free fall, it would seem the latter is more likely!

[ncleflights]

I think a few airlines not necessarily LS will vanish from our skies in the next couple of years. I personally feel we have two many low cost airlines chasing too few pax, it now looks like the UK economy is heading for recesion and the first thing folks are going to dump when money is tight is that city break or second holiday. Two airlines that have no foothold in Europe so are particluarly vunerable to a downturn in the UK economy are LS and GSM. The likes of FR or EZY have bases all over Europe so can switch expansion to the continent relatively quickly.

[Ian Brooks]

Is the European market any stronger than the UK? I`m not sure
there are few lo-costs that not very strong and most are from Europe


Ian

[Leodis]

Doom mongers talk your way into recession by spreading uncertainty.:sad:

[JB007]

Jet2 and Globespan should take a note of the UK Charter market...MERGE!

Same types/Regional market place/Secure peoples jobs

[ncleflights]

leodis - then us doom mongers on pprune will have to join most city bankers, economists and pundits that believe were heading for an econimic downturn.

JB007 - yes merger is probably a good idea for LS/GSM and no doubt one both management are considering.

Ian Brooks - the european economy at the moment looks better than the UKs hence the pounds fall againts the euro of late. The problem is as you point out eurpoean locos are not particular strong, ecluding wizz, however I dont think they are that well run, EZY and FR are which is why they should do well if they were to concentrate expansion in Europe rather than the UK.

[Leodis]

Most stocks are down so stop panicking. Are you only checking the Jet2 share price?

[Re-Heat]

I doubt anyone would want to buy it with the logistics division attached (Fowler Welch-Coolchain).

It is a tiddler, and Leeds-Bradford has awful accessibility.

[ap9dm1]

then us doom mongers on pprune will have too join most city bankers, economists and pundits that believe were heading for an econimic downturn.Does not mean there is a recession on the way, nor should we get to excited about it. Talk in the city and amongst economists is a slowdown. Most of the doom in gloom comes from over-excited media hype which blows everything out of proportion. This in turn fuels the doom mongers - if anything, that's what will make it worse.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?" ... Sgt. Oddball (Kelly's Heroes)!

;)

[AIRWAY1UK]

If a company is PLC,can a majority shareholder prevent an external purchase?

[AIRWAY1UK]

RE-HEAT, regarding Leeds Bradford being a tiddler and poor access.Maybe it is both but surely Jet2's success there has proven it to be a well and truly viable airport with the public utilising the services provided on mass.I am sure in hind sight Easyjet or Ryanair wish they had moved in several years ago.

[A320fan]

easyJet, BA, TUI Travel, Thomas Cook, Jet2 ...... what do they all have in common?

All their share prices have dropped!! They must all be due a merger! Just because a companies share price has dropped doesnt mean that it still cant be successful!

I personally think that Jet2 are in a very strong position! Yes if there is a market downturn then its more of the likes of Ryanair or bmibaby that will suffer in the UK. Jet2 have firmly got their foot under the package holiday market, with the people who only have 1 holiday a year Jet2 is an option! Yes the have the city routes too but they dont have all their eggs in one basket, compared to Ryanair, who are banking on people booking more than 1 holiday per year. I don't see Jet2 disapearing! Jet2 is part of the Dart Group PLC so if a majority shareholder doesnt want to sell then they aint selling! The majority share holder of Jet2 definatley wont be selling!

There are so many rumours about LS/GSM which there has been no hint by either company at all. Just because they both operate 737/757 then they must be on the cards for a merger! I don't think any of the 'big boys' are going to be interested in Jet2. Can you see Ryanair flying cargo flights during the night or operating a fleet of cooled lorries?

[anna_list]

True, but some have dropped more than others.
Take a look at these charts for Dart Group vs EasyJet and Ryanair over the last 6 months:

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=6m&s=DTG.L&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=ezj.l

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=6m&s=DTG.L&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=rya.l

Look at the current market capitalisation of Dart Group and consider how much profit FR and U2 make in a year, or how much cash they have in the bank.

[Sean Dillon]

Jet2 will suffer at MAN from Q4 onwards when easy have got themselves sorted, and they don't have the market presence to flog a dead horse, they'll have to pull out or reduce capacity.

A merger would be totally sensible, maintain the services and the regional jobs...and both companies have a presence in the holiday seat market that isn't worth anything so why not join the two...merge and take the regional market share rather than compete for a small slice of it each..

And with that share price they are looking rather vunerable...

[Honiley]

I would put Jet2 fairly high on the list of potential casualties for 2008!

The UK IT market has been over subscribed and mergers are solving these issues, good for companies and employees. Meeson and Dalrympol (spellin?) i'm sure have considered this too...

When does the LBA-JFK start? This is a huge risk, big money when all goes wrong with ageing B757's across the atlantic...with a company with zero ETOPs experience, sound familiar?

[682ft AMSL]

The markets are nervous and are being driven downwards by negtive sentiment on the back of weaker than expected indicators of cosumner speanding in the UK and the US and the continued emergence of credit losses in banks due to the sub-prime fall out. When this happens, the specifics about individual company performance become lost in the noise. Until Jet2's parent (The Dart Group) announces a pre-close trading update or its annual results (June) it will be difficult to establish whether the company is fairly valued or not. The fact you could, in theory at least, buy the combined businesses of Jet2, Jet2 holidays, the Royal Mail contract and Fowler-Welch Coolchain for £80m LESS the value of LBA (which is dependant on Jet2 for over half it's business) has a rather odd ring about it.

Fowler-Welch Coolchain represented about 1/3 of Dart's total revenues in 06/07 so one assumes it is a material driver of Dart's overall value and the company is of course this curious mix of haulage, scheduled passenger operation, tour operator and mail/cargo airline and none of the individual components exist as listed companies in their own right. PM holds 40% of the equity which adds a further layer of complication to any bid should he not want to sell or breakup the company. One thing I think we can all guarantee though is that PMs personal shareholding will have devalued from c.£90m to £22m so all things will have been or will be considered closely !

[dominic.kane]

Wouldn't be suprised if Jet2's days are numbered. There hasn't recently been a committment to provide a quality service at MAN in my experience. For example I've just been dumped off a flight to Pisa due to them withdrawing a service I've already booked for this summer for 'operational reasons'. So they retreat to LBA but what happens then? Wait to for FR or EZY to come and get them eventually or try to compete with the big boys/ specialists for charter holidays. From what I see they haven't demonstrated the imagination to really develop at MAN i.e. just placing flights on legacy/ over saturated routes:ugh:. Shame as in my view the Jet2 management are recking a once excellent business.

[A320fan]

Sean Dillon ...

A merger would be totally sensible, maintain the services and the regional jobs...and both companies have a presence in the holiday seat market that isn't worth anything so why not join the two...merge and take the regional market share rather than compete for a small slice of it each..


1 sec there .... I thought you said this last week .......

No real sign of the likes of Jet2 or Globespan folding at all, they will continue to change routes, add new aircraft (B763?) dramatically as forced by the market conditions.

Of course you can have more of "expert/knowledgable" opinion of Jet2, no need to ask next time.

[Sean Dillon]

I'm afraid things change A320fan, it's that sort of industry!

Since my original comments: (Which weren't last week)
EZE will be arriving in MAN and GSM have had further problems...and well, Dart's share price has been mentioned...TOM sked operation has made a £27m loss, (who like GSM and LS, have very little critical mass)

Jet2 and GSM will continue to "play" at it throughout 2008 as I have mentioned as forced by the market leaders (EZE/RYR), there will be casualties by Q4...(not EZE/RYR)

[Yeadon Dam]

The Dart share price has dropped even more. It is now trading at 38.25. How much lower can it go???

[8028410q]

Now at 37.51p

Not looking good...

[take-off]

It has been known for large multi-nationals to come crashing down as well guys, as has been said in other threads, ryan could take a big hit too, as easys flights more suit business pax, landing at main airports,higher frequency to do business trips in one day, if anything i think J2 can survive albeit with a bumpy ride, yes they are retracting, but their also atracting the charter traffic, these things take time, and with the other charters merging, they can only pick up more traffic from where the larger guys are pulling out, could turn out to be a very shrewd move being one of the first locos to put out a full package holiday, things have a way of coming back in fashion, and with airtravel becoming more stressful, alot of people will start to go back to package and let the tour op deal with the problems, surely the whole point of having a holiday? Plus ryan being selling their older planes off for near what they paid, if the economy does downturn, very few will be buying new or secondhand planes, with all the new planes they have on order, the older ones will have to go at bargain prices to shift them, wonder if i could fit a 738 on the drive?:}

[karlee alpha]

Any Jet2 guys heard if the company is bidding for the baggage handling contract? due to the amount of traffic from Jet2 i would have thought it made sence

[Mooncrest]

I know that this time last year Jet2 weren't interested in doing baggage, which struck me as odd considering they were about to start self-handling.

However, things have changed, e.g one or two new faces in the Jet2 management/director scene and a change of airport ownership so there could be a change of attitude. To me it would seem logical as Jet2 practically monopolise Hall B in any case.

At one time I gathered Menzies might be interested in doing baggage though not necessarily for Jet2.

[4567]

Do Jet2 ever plan to operate any flights out of GLA or will they stick with EDI and leave Flyglobespan to operate out of there base at GLA with the 5 737-800's ?

[groundrat]

They usually only pass through GLA nowadays handling footie charters-between themselves and MON have handled all the Rangers and Celtic fans this season on their UEFA travels.Back again in Feb and Mar for those contracts i understand:ok:

[Flightrider]

Has anyone else heard the rumour that NCL-LGW is stopping at the end of March? It's apparently doing very poorly and the Gatwick slots are being sold.

[airhumberside]

Press Article in tghe South West reported that last week. BE want the slots for a NQY service

[commit aviation]

....the press article stated that Flybe were in talks to acquire slots from another airline. It was suggested that it might be Jet2.

How true that is might be open to conjecture.

I would have thought the route is unlikely to disappear quickly - if at all.

The 737 is bound to remain in NCL to operate the mail flights. It is surely too close to the summer 08 season to launch an alternative route so why would they give up the LGW and potentially leave the 737 sitting around doing nothing??? If it is to go, I can't see it before the winter season.

[Channex101]

No it was actually reported in paper it was FlyBE buying slots of Jet2.com, not rumoured, CONFIRMED! just wait for it, its been discussed in the Newcastle forum, poor loads, even though they are currently slashing prices and letting you change flights as long as its on the same day free of charge. I can see it going all together, if it does stay maybe only once a day service, but prob the full chop!
Jet2 are going charter, away from City destinations, KRK has gone, BGO is rumoured to be next (although it was last year as well and its still going now) but the current aircraft rotations for 2x 737 and 1x 757 does not have room for BGO, although one 737 now has 3 less flights a day by the looks of it!

[BLKsheriff]

Well if NCL LGW being axed is the case, I hope they at least thought about using two of the slots for BLK LGW - a 733 would have been full each way most days.

I can understand if selling the slot would make more profit in year 1 than running the route, but it would have been a real boost for BLK and J2 in the red rose county......:ugh:

[HOODED]

Why use the slots for a BLK rotation? I would have thought an LBA rotation would have made more sense given the rumored BMI withdrawal from the regions to LHR to free the slots for more lucrative international routes. I think it's only a matter of time before LHR will not feature from LBA/MME/MAN on BMI. If the train can't take the strain then airlines will have to look at LGW and LCY or even LSS/LTN!

[Flightrider]

Why use the slots at all? Virtually every Jet2 adventure onto domestic routes has been a disaster! MAN-EDI, MAN-LGW, now NCL-LGW, wasn't there an EDI-BOH at one stage withdrawn before it even started.... only LBA and BLK to BFS seem to hang in there. It rather looks as though the Jet2 model works well on sunny places but UK domestics are not for them.

[Channex101]

Ok lets run this one again.... for those that dont grasp it.
NCL-LGW with Jet2 is 3x daily slots in to LGW, FlyBE have wanted to buy all 3 slots to op LGW-NQY. There fore ALL slots will be sold to FlyBE, there wont be 2 spare slots left over to ops BLK-LGW or anything else from LGW as ALL 3 SLOTS SOLD TO FLYBE!

:ugh:

[ncleflights]

Channelex101 - most valid point made if the slots go its all three so aint any spare slot capacity.

Flightrider-Equally valid point,if they can't make domestic links to Gatwick from MAN and NCL with their large catchement areas then how is BLK - LGW possibly going to work. Your dealing with a limited no of possible paxs.

Hooded - How exactly is a LBA - LGW service going to operate profitably if BMI can't make LHR service into a main hub work with onward connections then a loco with bigger aircraft offering no onward connections is not going to work.

Finally, I personnally feel Jet2 are going to feel the squeeze this year, they have dramatically cut services from NCL,will soon have EZY and FR an MAN to contend with, share price aint looking that healthy and rumours of a LBA base can't be helping.

[Leodis]

What's all the fuss?

A little streamlining of the business is all that is needed. Just one or two loss leaders may be best go rid of to ensure better profitability to stabilise the markets. The Newcastle Gatwick route has served it's purpose and it's now time to move on to more profitable greener pastures. As for a possible LBA Ryanair base having some impact, that depends on the deal struck with the airport authority if it indeed happens. Bridgepoint will want to protect the routes already served by Jet2 at LBA, but there is still enormous potential for growth in new markets.

[TheDesertFerret]

if they can't make domestic links to Gatwick from MAN and NCL with their large catchement areas then how is BLK - LGW possibly going to work.

Good question - but I think the distinction is the lack of competition from BLK.

MAN has flights to:

LCY (VLM)
LGW (BA)
LHR (BA, BMI)
STN (Eastern)

BLK has no flights to any London airport.

Air has a larger journey time advantage over rail for London-Blackpool (rail 3h 10 mins with a change) than London-Manchester (rail 2h 10mins).

Definitely worth thinking about (though it clearly isn't going to happen with respect to the slots being discussed here).

[Channex101]

I dont think they will feel the pressure, Jet2 is going charter. Just annoucened NCL-RHO (charter only for Jet2holidays - no seat only on it!)

[airhumberside]

wasn't there an EDI-BOH at one stage withdrawn before it even started
You're thinking of GSM

Or do you mean BFS-BOH?

[Channex101]

If it was LS you were thinking of BFS-BOH did launch, but didnt last long. Jet2 dont seem to have much look on domestic other than flights from UK-BFS

[commit aviation]

BLK-LGW unlikely to work for reasons outlined previously on the BLK thread. Low demand & a regular train service taking similar time "door to door".
As Channex stated Domestics haven't really worked for Jet2. Being based somewhere in the centre of the UK doesn't help their cause! Only longer domestic routes really seem to work these days - trains now appear to be moving higher percentages of people on shorter routes (i.e. LON-LPL/LBA/MAN)

PM is very good at repositioning the organisation and taking advantage of new opportunities so I doubt it will be doom & gloom!

[robo283]

When I worked for 'Scotland's Airline' many moons ago, the great trueism was 'If you want a successful route, fly over water'. Our routes from MAN, EDI and GLA to BHD (and to the Islands) were far better than everything else.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Well its official Jet2 off the NCL-LGW end of March, now wait for it.
Flybe start 30th March with YES 3 flights daily Mon-Fri and one each Sat & Sun.
Jet2 pax booked on the NCL-LGW can transfer free of charge onto Flybe.
So where did the LGW-NQY flight rumour go, so Flybe looks like they brought all three slots from Jet2.

[Channex101]

LGW-NQY was reported in the press! Please they doing the LGW route, im assuming its going to be on the Dash and we not lucky enough to have the EMB190 based here?

Good that they are selling flights for £1, if LS did that we might have still been doing the route now, but with LS wanting to go long haul and charter, couldnt see LGW stayin anyway

[Have you heard this!]

oH YES AND BY THE WAY.......................

Congratulations Jet2 on your Newcastle-Rhodes charter flight for the summer.
Lets hope it's the start of many.

[mightymouse111]

Is there not a few charters up for grabs at newcastle since Flyjet ceased all the XL charters?

[Channex101]

I think this is a year of consolidation!

[ncleflights]

channex101 - by no stretch of the imagination the scale of cutbacks we are seeing this year are can be classed as consolodation, this looks to me like the 1st signs of an airline in serious trouble. For Jet2 to then try and get into the charter market looks even more like an act of desperation.

[Sean Dillon]

For Jet2 to then try and get into the charter market looks even more like an act of desperation.

Totally agree. In a market place where the major players are consolidating there own businesses with £100m plus worth of synergies, this is an odd move!

[jet2impress]

Lets not forget that Jet2 have always been in the charter business.... well back in Channel Express days anyway.

[harrogate]

So, diversification of their business model is seen as 'desperation'?

Utter, utter nonsense.

They are no more in trouble than any other airline at present.

It's a wise move and a safer plan than the inept cycle of constant prodding of unpredictable scheduled destinations that the loco operators seem to be forever trapped in. Jet2 are actually looking ahead here, rather than backtracking and clutching at straws. It makes perfect sense. If they had a 'stick to our guns' business model that wasn't willing or even able to adapt, then they'd be stupid and naive. Fact is, they're moving and shaking. It's a good thing.

Find new routes, axe old routes, find more new routes, axe more old routes, axe some of the new routes, re-instate axed routes, etc... this generic loco cycle has been going on for long enough. It's time it evolved. The market is changing. Jet2 feel that the 'do some loco, do some charter' thing might work for them. To at least try it makes perfect sense to me. To not try it would be far, far less progressive.

On a side note, I find the football fan-like allegiance by some forum members to airlines and airports and their business models very confusing. If Jet2 are gone tomorrow or still here in 10 years time, it makes no difference to me. But looking at them with objective eyes and having a lot of experience in this area of the industry, I don't see how anyone can say yet that what they're doing is a bad thing. It would become a bad thing if they tried it and it didn't work, but they still persisted with it.

[wawkrk]

Harrogate,

I absolutely agree with your comments.
Wanting to make money is desperation?Rubbish.
I run a successful International business and I constantly change my strategy and business plan to suit rapidly changing market conditions.
Having a good sound business plan makes sense but when the plan is formulated, market conditions could be dramatically different so sticking with the original plan can be a disaster.
I would say Jet2 follow sound common sense logic and they are pretty smart and fast reacting in a difficult business.

wawkrk

[Ed666]

Can anyone confirm the end of MAN-CDG flights by LS come the end of the March?

[harrogate]

ncleflights

You're an analyst in the industry? Who do you work for? PM me if you like.

You're wrong about Jet2, I assure you. Be good to hear a more rounded argument from you than the one you've tried making here.

[commit aviation]

I'm no financial whizz kid but I seem to recall Dart group shares were split some time back??? The number of shares increased (doubled?) so the price per share went down (halved presumably?!)

Take that into account along with the general market downturn plus the fact they made a profit. As stated earlier, I don't do finance but I'm sure someone out there can confirm / deny / elaborate!! :confused:

[jet2impress]

The shares were split four ways. So this quartered the share price.

[Leodis]

So the share price at the old rate would be around a respectable £1.36 ?

I don't know anything about shares & stocks but it's funny how so many plane boffins seem to know so much about the markets lol. :rolleyes:

[redmech]

can't see jet2 been in any trouble as they are planning things for later on in the year, getting rid of proffitless routes make room and scope for the aircraft they have. Don't forget unlike most airlines not just Low cost they own everything outright no bank loans no leases on anything so it will not cost them money to have aircraft on the ground in the down turn that seems to be happening. Plus they have one more 757 coming into service shortly.

ETOPS is the next big thing and this cost so much to get up and runnung, even more so with a mixed fleet of 757's they must have bigger idears for the low cost / charter market.

So personaly think jet2 will be one of the last to vanish from the market. bigger is not always better. bigger means you have more to loose.

[14 loop]

Although there is consolidation from Jet2 at MAN & NCL, their offering from LBA this Summer (as it stands) will be their biggest ever programme.

They had a very expensive summer (07) at MAN, leasing-in extra capacity which in the end proved too much in the face of competition in the overall North West market. Admittedly they had issues with bad timings on some of their MAN routes (BCN) which meant their load factors and yields were a bit off.

So Summer 2008 sees a refocus - less at MAN, more at LBA and a shift towards the longer sunshine routes and more of Jet2holidays.....(which incidentally easyjet have a similar set-up). Given all the IT consolidation and the talk of a 30% reduction in IT seats this summer, I reckon Jet2 have every chance of making a good operation in this area.

I wouldn't get too excited about the share price, the City is a fickle beast. Likewise the fact that PM owns 40% of the stock, I'd have thought a takeover would be unlikely. Lets see the share price in the summer!

[Evileyes]

Numerous LBA specific posts with little or nothing to do with Jet2 have been move to...... the LBA thread.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281463&page=18

[LGS6753]

Two Jet 2 737s at Luton today on charters.
Looks like they are widening their revenue base.

[ls_jet2]

I don't think so, we've operated charters regularly for years:D, this is nothing new to us.

[Sean Dillon]

Don't forget unlike most airlines not just Low cost they own everything outright no bank loans no leases on anything so it will not cost them money to have aircraft on the ground in the down turn that seems to be happening.

Give me strength! Airliner World magazine consultant!!!!

[redmech]

Errr ok:confused:

[LEEDS APPROACH]

I think it would be a good idea for Jet2 to open a few travel shops in the cities and larger towns surrounding their bases. If this proved to be popular even smaller towns could get them. There is always a good percentage of people who prefer to book their holidays in this way rather than on the impersonal pc. Who knows Jet2 might even be able to take over the thomson shop in Yeadon if it turns out to be one of 100 shops they are closing. I wonder if local people are really aware of how many destinations thomson have pulled from the airport? What do people think about the travel shop idea? -a Jet2 superstore in the heart of Leeds.

Leeds App.

[ILS32]

I wouldn't have thought a travel shop or shops would be something that jet2 would consider.Jet2 use call centres and the internet to run their business.Everything is done to keep the operational costs down.The cost of buying or leasing properties,extra staff, rates etc would incur additional expense especially in the present business cycle.The shops would have to generate a lot of extra busines to make them profitable.Why are Thomson
pulling out?They are like the Post Office not enough people using them,unfortunately the internet is the future.

ILS32

[Stampe]

If Thomson close a travel shop its for one reason only..it,s not earning its keep.Those that generate a profit remain in business.The industry is moving to internet selling very fast.There will be more mergers and consolidations in the future.:ok:

[ropetow]

Apologies if this has been asked before - has Jet2 dropped Edinburgh to Bergamo route ?

Thanks

[airhumberside]

Yes. Replaced by extra EDI-France flights this summer

[4567]

Could a merger beetween Flyglobespan and Jet2 ever happen ?

[757 Speedbrakes]

............ who knows but I don't think so at the moment. Can't really see what either company could benefit from it?

There is both too much change and consilidation going on at Jet2 at the moment as it is!

[Channex101]

Jet2 and flyglobespan i think would be a good idea...
GSM has the 767s LS are after, Jet2 helped GSM get on their feet especially with the EDI base, out SOP/SEP are almost identical, we have 737/757/767 fleet in common, similar routes... i think it would be a good idea, just not at this moment in time.

[GoEDI]

Looks like it wasn't just FR who have been changing their booking engine recently!
I've been looking at flights on LS today and their website used to, quite rightly, show the full fare on the flight select page.
They've now gone back to quoting only the base fare not including taxes.:confused: When you do select a fare this 'FR-copy' box appears in the top right of the page quoting the fare and the taxes and shows the total fare.

[TSR2]

No, the new style box does not show the total fare.When you progress to the payment page, a 'Fuel Charge' is added which is in addition to a charge for baggage and seat selection (if required).

[fredtheanorak]

with the share price having fallen by over 75% in less than a year there's trouble . Slots sold to Flybe for cash. Its tough and getting tougher here in the NW. Cut out the underperformers has to be right:ooh:

[14 loop]

Don't worry about the share price dear....its only the city! Current city analysis is 'buy'. With their advance bookings and various charter work from NCL, MAN and LBA this summer you doubting Thomas's can go spin!

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Been looking at Amsterjam:ugh:, And price gone right up.

Used to go regular for about £51 Ret, But cheapest now is
over £79 - nothing any cheaper.

I guess all down to fuel increases.

Even a ret to BFS is about £55.

[IOMspotter]

oops 14 loop. Jet2 announced a profit warning this morning:confused: share price has bombed:uhoh:

[take-off]

Just been on jet2 site, compared a 'holiday' to algarve with a flight only , using same days and times.

The results for package holiday from man to algarve(faro) 13/03/08 2 pax

holiday 268.00
under occ fee 36.81
flight change 0.20
total 305.00(guess they round it down to nearest pound)

Flight only
fare 219.00
taxes 84.00
total 303.00


Now my point being is that surely holiday or flight only, it still costs the same to fly pax to faro. If this particular accommodation hadnt of charged an under occ fee then it would have worked out cheaper to buy the package rather than the flight, guess what im saying is one automatically assumes its cheaper to buy a flight only. not knocking the airline mostly found j2 to be great, happend to be looking for a break and just thort id compare the two, happend to be a lot closer than i expected..


p.s. Is blk ever likey to see anything new from LS, poss winter/next year or is it too early to speculate?

[BLKsheriff]

The announcement today indicates that this years pre-tax profit is going to be the same as last year...OK so the shares have dipped but the company as a whole (dart) is still turning a profit and had a turnover of appx £350million last year so I guess it will be roughly the same this year. There was a profit dividend paid on the shares both last summer and last winter, which Easy haven't done yet as far as I recall...

This thread has been full of comments about consolidation in 2008 and retreat from non-profitable routes at MAN, this is presumably the financial reasons for these comments and lets face it it makes sense.

I don't see jet2 "in trouble" and at some point the share price should correct itself to reflect the value of the overall business, lets not forget all shares are down currently and the whole point of shares is that you have to be in for the long term to get a return.

They DO need to get a grip this year on the profitable routes for W08...BLK is the answer!!!

[TSR2]

I also compared purchasing a holiday package to the Algarve from Jet2 Holidays with flight-only plus accommodation from internet agency.

Same flight, same date, same accommodation, same board basis .... Absolutely no comparison on price.

Jet2 Holidays price for 4 adults (2 rooms) June 3rd ... £2,368.

Independently ....
Flights £526.24 including bags, fuel supplement and credit card charge.
Hotel £1,201.06 including credit card charge.
Total £1,727.30

Jet2 Holidays £640.70 more expensive for exactly the same thing.

[14 loop]

I stand by everything I wrote last night.....

"Trading Statement

Dart Group PLC, the aviation and distribution group, updates on current trading ahead of year end on 31 March 2008.

Whilst Fowler Welch-Coolchain, the Group's distribution business, continues to perform well, winter trading in the aviation business has not met expectations.

In the winter season, the forecast growth in passenger volumes has not been achieved and similar volumes to last year are now expected to be carried. The resultant lower yield and load factors have reduced the winter revenue expectations by about 6% with a consequential reduction in the Group's expected pre-tax profits for the year."

Still think that the summer will be OK.....share price is a bargain!

[757 Speedbrakes]

share price is a bargain!


Lucky PM and ID hold the share majority. Stops any rumor or possibility of 'hostile takeovers'.

[A320fan]

Well that proves the point that they are neither expensive nor cheap!

Baring in mind that in take-off's post the flight is flying very soon, so hence the seat price on Jet2.com will be very high, whereas on Jet2holidays they will take a certain unit of seats at an undisclosed price.

I guess depending upon how things go this summer we may see more cut backs on city routes. Personally I think in the long term it would be healthier for Jet2 to loose a few 737's and concentrate on the high density sun routes. I'm really think of Leeds to be honest, we have got no idea financially which routes are profitable but i imagine filling a 757 to ALC is more profitable than a half full 737 to BFS!

As much as I support Jet2, I think its time for them take a back seat on the city routes and certainly at LBA let Ryanair step in and have a real go at them. In the long run this would benefit everyone, Jet2 should have a slicker more profitable 'bucket and spade' operation and Ryanair will have yet another place to put those endless 737's.

[easy]

lose, lose, lose:}:}:}:} loose is eg a woman/man with dodgy moral values!

[easy]

lose, lose, lose:}:}:}:} loose is a woman/man with dodgy moral values!

[commit aviation]

A320 Fan
Not necessarily correct on the ALC vs BFS thing.

It's all about yield. BFS is a short route with business passengers who (probably) book later & (probably) pay higher fares.
ALC is a longer flight (more fuel - higher costs.) In terms of price per mile travelled the half full BFS could potentially make more!
They must think the LBA-BFS market is worth the effort as they are increasing the route to 3 a day on weekdays this summer.

[A320fan]

Not necessarily correct on the ALC vs BFS thing.

It's all about yield

Now I have completely overlooked yeild! You are completely right. Lol me in my airey fairy world! I never even thought about when people book their flights etc. Maybe I should come on here in the morning when I am actually awake! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[TartinTon]

Actually it's all about revenue/contribution. High yield with few pax is a failure. Loads of pax at low yield is a failure. It's all about the right mix of fares at a high enough yield with a high enough load factor with ancillary revenue thrown in.

[Channex101]

Where are G-CELO and G-LSAD both white Jet2 737 and 757, they not been flying for a good 4weeks plus...
Any of them going to be painted up for summer?

[Yeadon Dam]

Painting is not a Jet2 strong point. CELB/E/Y/Z all still have grey tails.

[lukeylad]

I thought LO was based up at EDI? or is it just EA.

Pretty sure i heard that there was a Jet2 757 down at Lasham, But that could be G-LSAJ your new aircraft.

[Lashamcat]

Can confirm that G-LSAD is currently in maintenance at Lasham. Due out after Easter.

[A320fan]

G-CELO is in maintenance in the multiflight hangars at LBA.

[757 Speedbrakes]

Lashamcat : Have you seen G-LSAJ there?

I'm not sure if she's there or at Southend?

[Ex Cargo Clown]

What's going on with the Tuesday and Wednesday MAN-BUD flights through the summer.

A whole raft of them have been CANX and I have a very unhappy missus here as it has ruined a few days away we had booked in May, hotel booked and everything....

Come on LS, get your act together...

[FlyZB]

Trying to check-in online for my MAN-MJV flight on Sunday but the Jet2 website keeps saying that online check-in is currently unavailable. Does anyone know if this service will be down for a while due to them upgrading this facility or is it just a temporary website fault?

[trebor]

FlyZB - Check in on line is currently unavailable due to system upgrade. You can still reserve your seating though.

[MAN Guy]

Ex Cargo Clown, maybe the MAN-BUD will eventually suffer the same fate as other city-pairs that LS have dropped from MAN?

Wouldn't be at all surprised, as LS is increasingly moving over to holiday-only stuff at MAN.

[ls_jet2]

It would appear from the fare finder that the BUD route has been pruned for the summer, but if you check the timetable it shows a daily service:confused:.

I believe that BUD was considered for the chop along with the other routes that have been withdrawn over the past few months, but it has been a good route for the last couple of years. I believe that Ryanair are/have started BUD from LPL:ouch:, and believe that will have influenced the decision, as well as many of the others:oh:.

[EC-ILS]

It will be a real pity if they drop the BUD route because when LS set up at MAN these were the routes that set them apart from all the other LCCs who just operated to the sun spots! Now LS is becoming just another face in the crowd.

Luckily it seem WW are heading more towards the city routes.

[take-off]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it annoying that J2 have gone back to showing base flight price then adding taxes on the next page... I find it a backwards step personally, or is it that ,their fares were looking expensive compared to the competition?

[EC-ILS]

I couldnt care of LS operated flights the moon, Im just saying when they operated flight to city break destinations they were aiming at a different market than they are know, know they are just the same as the rest.

[Lashamcat]

G-LSAJ is still at Southend, still in her previous guise as SE-DUP.

[757 Speedbrakes]

Thanks, just wondering when she was going to turn up?!

[TSR2]

The 'TOTAL FARE' including taxes is shown in the box on the right hand side on the same page as the basic fare. However, as clearly stated, the total fare EXCLUDES a fuel supplement and variable credit card fee currently £2 per person per flight which I feel is scandalous.

I believe it is extremely misleading of Jet2 to quote a figure as 'TOTAL FARE' when there are non-optional add-ons later in the booking process.

[Playamar2]

Have to agree with both TSR2 & take-off on this subject as the fare after all the add-ons becomes far more expensive than most locos. This seem to be have been noticed by many customers who now look elsewhere, especially on their flights from Manchester where the city-break operation has been cut back alot. Even adding on the fare to get to Liverpool, RYR & EZY seem to be a cheaper option.

[uklad007]

I thought that the fare inclusive of taxes and charges has to be shown on the same page and its now a requirement for it to be done this way. Wasnt that part of the reason why Ryanair upgraded their booking system (i know it wasnt the only reason) but am sure a deadline was set for doing this (cant recall if its an EU issue or a UK only one)

BA/BMI/Easyjet show their fares inclusive and whilst flybe dont in terms of the fare you see in the flight options - to the right hand side of this (on the same page) it shows the total inclusive of taxes, i didnt think you could have the fare on one page and the taxes coming later - something to do with advertising and the passenges thinking they are getting a flight at £X but its actually £Y.

I know for extras (baggage etc this is different) although i wish they would show all of this on the same page, and it baffles me as to why using a Debit Card now attracts a charge with some airlines, basically stating its going to cost you extra however you pay - to a degree i can understand it for a Visa Card (although it should be a % of the cost rather than a fixed fee as it can be a high % against the lowest cost flights and the airlines Card issuer charges are a % of the total transaction and are not fixed fee so in some cases your paying more than you should be :=) but for a Debit Card it should be nil!

[uncovered]

Debit cards attract a transaction charge and a chargeback mechanism for dubious charges. Adittionally companies have to lodge large cash deposits to cover any losses. A mid-size UK airline would have to finance £10m plus in deposits.

So thats why they charge for debit cards.

[take-off]

Could you imagine going in tesco and buying a tin of beans for 50p, getting to the checkout and finding its actually £10. cause theyve added the fuel supplemnt fr gettin the beans to the store , and a checkout charge to pay for not using the self scan tills....

TSR2 - lucky i read post before actually booking, never noticed that it said the fuel was on top of taxes, mind was half asleep at time, and last time i booked i didnt get asked my reason for travelling? Why do they need to know that? Sorry i know im ranting old queen(well 35 going on 70!!!!).....but Fu:mad: :mad lL, what next????? Yes i know, there are alternative airlines, but i like to suport our local big top tent that is blk, beacuse its quik convienient and friendly, including the 2 big butch coppers i bumped into the other week on way in:O:O:O:O:E:E ..ahem, thats for a totally differnt thread i think ..lol

Anyway have a good day you guys;) including the cute pilots and cabin crew;), take care in this awfull weather:ok:

Before anybody says i realise the question for travelling is for insurance now..doh!!!:ugh::ugh:

[TSR2]

I have just done a costing for return flights between Manchester and Faro in June for comparison with the costing 4 weeks ago.

Total Fare (inc taxes) +36.6%
Fuel Supplement +21.5%
Baggage Charge +19.8%

Total Costing +30.4%

Must be either boosting cost of last few remaining seats or pricing themselves out of the market.

[take-off]

Anyone know why tonight tfs flight is showing 2200pm departure on AENA website? And is BLKs 73 supersonic:eek:, cause BLk airport still showing 11.35 for arrival, got couple of m8s to pick up

[TSR2]

Showing 20.45 departure with 23.55 arrival on Flight Stats.

[take-off]

Just checked flight stats for tfs-blk, and it showing 2 flights with same code, tfs-blk and tfn -man:confused: also says this is a multi-segment flight, does that mean its dropping off in man? And checking flight out , it says blk -tfs was only 5 mins late arriving tfs, so why leaving late?

[flybar]

'G-LSAJ is still at Southend, still in her previous guise as SE-DUP.'

Now been registered with a GB Registration by Thomson.
Is the sale to Jet2 cancelled?

[757 Speedbrakes]

No and it's not a sale - it's a lease.

Monumental paperwork and burocracy cock-ups by the Tui Group and the lessor....... and before anyone says it, it's not Jet2's fault!

Hopefully she'll be around in a month or two in her new silver and red livery. :ok:

[topper3]

Share price touched 19p yesterday!

I think LS have a good business model and despite all the current issues, the Jet2holidays product could be quite successful. They're moving in a new direction at the right time. If it is successful they will once again be ahead of the market in that specific area. Maybe the Summer and Autumn will prove this.

I'm just concerned that the low share price could hamper all of this. Pardon me for not understanding this fully, but if the price keeps falling, what kind of impact can that have on the operation?

[840]

I'm not sure about Jet2's specifics, but for a general company, the major problem is that as the company is worth less, it becomes more expensive to get access to the same amount of credit, which eats into profit margin. Depending on the extent to which aircraft purchases have been funded by debt, it may or may not be a problem.

[no sponsor]

The share price ultimately indicates 1) confidence in the business 2) the value of the business.

Clearly, with a share price in free-fall, confidence is also falling by independent investors, including fund managers who invest in transport. With the current economic climate, people will be risk adverse to high risk industries. I'd be nervous if it were my money.

The market capitalization of the business is interesting. If I wanted to buy all the shares in the business, and therefore own it, I need to pay 29.27m GBP at todays share price - quite a good price for 30 aeroplanes plus the remaining assets. If I were an asset grabber, I'd be very interested.

But, the CEO and MD own the majority of the shares. This could mean that the management buy even a bigger stake in the business for a very good price. Each of these men have seen their wealth fall dramatically over the past 24 months.

Borrowing money - the amount and the cost - might be affected by the value of the business.

Their cash position is much worse than it was several months ago, which I think is the most worrying factor of all.

[Spotter LBA]

Seems strange that Jet2 are leasing an aircraft as all of their current fleet are owned outright except from the odd one from Futura and when they have done this its not been Jet2 colours.

Isn't G-LSAG the aircraft that is supposed to be named Jet2 New York?

Still no announcement made by Jet2 regarding this, I would think they are keeping quite until they know when thay can get the aircraft in the air, that is if they are aiming to launch a route to New York!!

[no sponsor]

But, if you need to expand the fleet and all the ones for sale are not acceptable, then you are left with leasing an aircraft. That 757 is to cover the rolling fleet maintenance program over the summer, since at any one time, one of the 757 will be out of service in heavy maintenance.

[Jet2krazey]

AG is one of the chinese aircraft inc AI and AH! none of these can be used for longhaul as not capable! from what ive heard its AB and AC that are gonna be ETOPS rated and used for longhaul! as they are the youngest in the fleet! rumoured be ready from AUG SEPT time! :)

[757 Speedbrakes]

AB and AE with hopefully the addition of winglets.

Not only will they look extremely cool they'll give better performance and higher take-off weights from LBA and more importantly, at the current price of fuel, will pay for the cost of fitting them in 3 years. If fuel prices go up more, then that time scale will be even faster. Also, it'll increase the value of the aircraft.

Leasing an additional 757 at this time of high 75/76 prices, I imagine, is more cost effective. So far, all of Jet2's charter work has impressed those who we've chartered for and it looks like the management have found another neiche market in the north (well done to them) :D. Jet2 are currently having to turn down charters due to lack of aircraft, so AJ will be busy enough. She'll also be covering those aircraft who'll be having their C checks.

Lets hope we're all expecting annoucements for massive profit increases this time next year. :ok:

[MUFC_fan]

I'm hoping for a LS a/c order next year!:ok:

If they are to stay in business on their own surely a A/B order is necessary?!

The a/c they currently have aren't getting any younger!

[RobT100]

Jet2's charter work has impressed those who we've chartered for and it looks like the management have found another neiche market in the north (well done to them) . Jet2 are currently having to turn down charters due to lack of aircraft, so AJ will be busy enough.

The bigots at Thomson, First Choice etc, must be choking on their lunches when they look back at a market they could well have captured. But instead they refused to expand from LBA making the pax does as they say i.e. go to MAN or dare I say it DSA (and look what a flop thats turned out to be).

I salute Jet2 for remebering customer is king and have to now laugh at likes of TOM and FCA - they can keep their super bases at likes of Exeter and DSA :O

[TartinTon]

Jet2 have remembered that the customer is king?? How do you work that out? They have run a mile from the competition at MAN. The share price is a reflection of the Dart business as a whole i.e. the airline is worthless and the value is in the logistics business. They are touting aircraft around the market for stupid prices in peak season because they don't know what to do with them hence the adverts out for a head of network planning (God knows they need one).

I would check for a pulse but Jet2 is a corpse.

Let's flush it away and move on.

[AEUENG]

Tartinton,

A tad bitter or jealous maybe? Has Jet2 done your airline out of a few charters and hence you feel justified in posting a child-like bitter rant?!

Bless you!

[TartinTon]

AEUENG, thanks for your concern but it's quite the opposite. We've taken full advantage of their lack of commercial nous and made a nice profit :)

Hardly a bitter rant when they are helping the business I work for. Just pointing out a few facts that you obviously find hard to swallow. I shall make them plain for you:

1/ Share price is down from over £1 in Oct 07 to less than 20p.

2/ Profit warning statement from Dart quoting the logistics business as doing fine but the airline losing substantial money.

3/ A/c being offered out on wet lease for Thu/Fri/Sat/Sun ops for name your own operating period and give us an offer conditions in peak summer season.

Off you go to bed now, with a nice glass of milk :}

Is that bitter?

[FlyZB]

Could somebody in the know please explain to me what exactly Jet2's plan of attack is. I'm rather confused by them. It's pretty obvious that they've got their sights set on expanding LBA as much as possible. This is a good move and a way of building up their profile before any competition comes along. Question is, if say FR did start up a base at LBA, would LS run a mile like they have at MAN?

What they are doing at their other bases though completely baffles me. EDI was the last base they announced but have done nothing with it since. BLK and NCL have gone stagnant and at MAN, well who knows what's going on at MAN. They offered some much needed city destinations BCN, SXF etc last year. This should have been a winner but a combination of poor timings and high fares lead to these routes being unsuccessful. Then they decided to pull existing city destinations eg AMS that should in theory be performing well. Now I hear that they are reducing frequency on BUD, FCO and dropping CDG despite the fact that these routes have been doing very well. The reason? Because they are aiming more at sunshine and charter markets. Fair enough you might think. But where are these so called charter routes? For an airline who are supposedly focusing on bucket-and-spade, their routes are extremely thin on the ground. Over the winter, MAN-AGP operated 3 x weekly. For a destination like Malaga, 3 a week even in the winter months is very poor. The new route to LPA was reduced from 2 x weekly to weekly before it had even started and some weeks this was cancelled. ACE will only operate weekly over the summer, TFS only twice weekly. There's nothing in the way of any other charter destinations away from the Costa's and Canaries. So for an airline who have reduced their city routes in order to focus on sunshine, well they're not doing too well with it are they!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Jet2. I recently flew with them to Murcia and was very impressed by them. But they don't seem to have any sort of direction and give out mixed messages as to exactly where they're heading. Furthermore, some frequent fliers on my MJV-MAN flight were saying that they've noticed that the new ZB flights into Murcia have had an impact on LS. That particular flight certainly had a low load. So maybe another route that will soon be scrapped or reduced? They've jacked in popular city routes, if they can't make the core sunshine leisure routes work either then there really is no hope for them.

[daz211]

With EZY and FR expanding in the north, I think that Jet2 should
make a bold move and start a STN-New york service, before one
of the above make the first move.
I do understand that Jet2 could do this from the north but it
would be a good way of showing that Jet2 wont just stand by
and watch the big two take over the north.

Anyone know if there are ANY plans for the stansted base:confused:.

[flybar]

Jet2 are not the only airline dropping city routes.
A recent report in the Yorkshire Post stated that Tui/Thomson had reduced their city routes by 49% last autumn.
Presumably once punters have been to a city a couple of times they want to go somewhere else whereas they will return to the sun as often as possible.

[pwalhx]

I am somewhat puzzled how you can think Jet2 moving to Stansted is a good idea (apart from the charter work they do there). Why jump into the lions den with Easy and Ryanair who have strongly established bases there.

[Keyvon]

Even GSM has heavily reduced its own city-routes network by focusing more on bucket&spade/ski charter flights and selling full packages holidays through their website. Now it's very hard to find a cheap fare with them because the majority of seats are chartered by Globespan Holidays and I think they tend to push more on packaged holidays/additional services rather than selling only their flights.

Jet2 seems doing the same now...we'll see them gradually to cut back most of their not charter-like flights, primarily from all the bases expect, maybe, LBA.
Bergen and Gatwick will be the next ones to go, both from NCL...together with Paris from MAN.
I'm pretty sure that, at the end of this summer timetable, we'll see other cuts in this way.

[no sponsor]

Profit warning statement from Dart quoting the logistics business as doing fine but the airline losing substantial money.

Not really. The trading statement actually said:

The aviation and distribution group said Fowler Welch-Coolchain, its distribution business, continues to perform well but winter trading in the aviation business has not met expectations.

In the winter season, the forecast growth in passenger volumes has not been achieved and similar volumes to last year are now expected to be carried. The resultant lower yield and load factors have reduced winter revenue expectations by about 6 pct with a consequential reduction in the group's expected full-year pretax profits.

Which is quite a bit different than saying 'substantial losses'.

You're not a journo are you?

[daz211]

Thats the point im trying to make !
show EZY/FR that Jet2 are just as bold in route
expansion and are not affraid to jump into the lions den.

Where will Jet2 end up if they keep running away:=.

[HiflierEK]

newcastle gatwick taking over by flybe !!

[TartinTon]

no sponsor, absolutely not a journo, just 20+ years of airline experience and very familiar with the operating costs of a wide range of a/c types.

Reading between the lines of the profit warning it's difficult to see that they aren't bleeding cash with fuel up at $100+ a barrel, operating at below expectations in the most difficult time of the year.

Interesting that unlike other companies giving profit warnings (EZY/RYR) they don't give any insight into their hedging position (not that they have to) but it does make you wonder if they are still majorly exposed in a spot market that shoes no real signs of weakness apart from the odd blip.

Tough times ahead for J2 in my opinion.

[TartinTon]

daz211, a reasonable strategy if you're coming from a position of strength but J2 are hardly there, are they? Just imagine that they put, say 4 a/c into STN. I guarantee that RYR would wipe them out.

Why? Because they've done it before.

Go started EDI-DUB. RYR doubled frequency and sold all seats for £1 until Go went.

MyTravel lite started BHXDUB, RYR added frequency and then came and started BHXMJV at the same time. All fares £1 until Myt withdrew.

Doesn't like competition does Mad Mikey.

[Channex101]

At least for now though Jet2 are still making a profit, maybe not a huge one but could be worse, could be loosing loads like BmiBaby.
Jet2 have also purchased fuel at a good price to cover their ops till Aug so the price increase in the short term should cause any more problems than it already has.

[daz211]

Jet2 will have to do something and fast,
Not only are EZY/FR moving in on Jet2's northen Airports,
FR are moving into main European Airports but more to the point
the main holiday Airports.

I think its time to start thinking outside the box, maybe the way
forward is to look at brand new routes, not touched by the big two.

If Jet2 are not willing to fight FR/EZY or are not in the position to fight
they have to make some bold changes, no airline can stand still or more to the point run away in this day and age:ouch:.

[FlyboyUK]

Don't be fooled by all the recent rumour mongering about Baby, they aren't loosing loads. And forward bookings are at record levels :ok:

[A320fan]

It would be the end of Jet2 if they moved into STN. Say they put a couple of 737's there we all know exactly what Ryanair will do .... put 3 or 4 737s up at LBA. It would not be worth the hassle. Jet2 should not expand into new airports at this time, they need to focus on their proven profit making routes not new routes that will be thin to start with and will be operating at a loss for a substantial period of time to cover start up costs.

Lets just wait and see what summer 08 brings for Jet2.

[14 loop]

It would be the end of Jet2 if they moved into STN

Jet2 have been at STN for years...yes its a 1 plane base but nevertheless a base. They won't try and take on anybody there but they will keep performing charters quite nicely.

[daz211]

Yes what a plan that is, stay put and let FR/EZY take over Jet2's northen airports and take a % of Jet2's pax.
dont have any plan only to wait and see what will happen with
summer 08.

I didnt say Jet2 should move to STN with afew 737's and start euro routes
it needs a much bolder move than that, maybe NewYork on a bigger a/c.

[757 Speedbrakes]

Lets just wait and see what summer 08 brings for Jet2.

Lets hope for a more 'slick' operation with less tech. issues, better forward planning and utilisation of crews and aircraft.

The staff at LBA have gained a lot more experience and are better prepared, so we're told, than last year.

The charter work is undoubtably fantastic and lets hope it will keep going into winter 08 and boost profit levels. Added to cost reductions in not wet leasing from other airlines (Futura and Flightline) and better fuel planning and fuel burn, I can't see why Jet2 can't make a huge turn around.

Lets not all foget how much this company grew last year in such a short time and the costs that that incured. :=

I'd love to see Jet2 annouce their biggest ever profits next year, if only to silence the few on here who wish to see the demise of Jet2. :ok:

(Seems strange to me, how some pilots wish to see companies within their industy fail????)

[A320fan]

Jet2 have been at STN for years

Sorry yeah I know they have I should have put scheduled passenger flights.

I didnt say Jet2 should move to STN with afew 737's and start euro routes
it needs a much bolder move than that, maybe NewYork on a bigger a/c.

So moving into an area with no brand recognition at all, where there is no possibility of connecting flights and a market that has good competition from AA, with aircraft that are currently not equipped for the likes of NYC will be a good way of reducing overheads and maximising profit??

Lets be realistic! Some people on here think that Jet2 is just going to collapse tomorrow because of the share price. Well they will if the launch New York from a southern airport with the business model that they currently have!! The routes and bases that Jet2 have for the coming summer season are proven to be successful so whats the big deal if at their weakest part of the year, they have the poorest results, its not exactly surprising is it!

stay put and let FR/EZY take over Jet2's northen airports and take a % of Jet2's pax.

"Take Over" Well thats a bit of a dramatisation. EZY has been at NCL for years, as for MAN, EZY/FR will not take a % of Jet2's pax as by the time FR is there Jet2 will have virtually no city destinations so FR are going to be nicking passengers from thin air! Regarding EZY, for now their only routes from MAN are the ex GB ones so Jet2 will only face competition on AGP and TFS.

As I said a few minutes ago lets just wait to see how summer 08 goes, and who gives a to$$ if Jet2 appears to some to be conecntration on sun routes and LBA. They are proven to make money so I applaud Jet2 for realising that they are not as suited to city routes from MAN for example. So lets let Jet2 get on with it, as after all they are the successful airline STILL making £millions profit and have a greater knowledge of what routes to fly, where from and with wich aircraft. NOT us!

[Jet2]

Seems strange to me, how some pilots wish to see companies within their industy fail????

Who said it was pilots?? PPrune has loads of spotters and flightsimmers who are self promoted experts on our profession, and many seem to have taken part in this thread with their words of wisdom :ugh:

[757 Speedbrakes]

And there was me thinking PPrune stood for Professional Pilots Rumor Network :ugh:

Not that there is anything wrong with imput or info from others in the industry Cabin Crew, ATC, engineers, ground staff etc - even Chief Executives!

Probably why most people get fed up with a lot of the b*ll*cks on here then. :(

[Little Blue]

Saying that, you ought to hear some of the b***ocks that we have to put up with from a few of the erstwhile Professional pilots..( Only a 'few', mind)
Oh the joys of working in ops/crewing ! :rolleyes:

[FlyingBoi]

All good points, i'm interested where you see BE? Not a loco? Or just not flying enough "bucket + spade" routes to be relevant??:confused:

[wawkrk]

So it looks like 1 767 for Stansted and 1 767 for LBA.
New York Mondays/Tuesdays.
But, Phuket! How? via where I wonder!

[freightdoggy dog]

Sorry, is it April the 1st yet wawkrk ?
Transatlantic from the North when they get Etops sorted I can see happenin, but from STN when you already have Eos and AA, you're havin a giraffe. Im off to Italy on Pikey airways so pray keep us all informed !

[wawkrk]

Maybe my hearing is not so good,Phuket!

[daz211]

Or maybe you getting AirBerlin mixed up with Jet2,
well regarding STN anyway;).

[757 Speedbrakes]

Glad to see the share price on the rise :ok:

27p today, as oposed to 18p last week.

Just wish it could of waited until AFTER I had a chance to purchase some!

:{

[Facelookbovvered]

1st Of April

Interview with Jet2 CEO on how he made a fortune small

In a rare interview with Yorkshires leading Aviation magazine
Tyke International the CEO of local airline Jet2 tells our reporter C.Antright why he set out to change the way forward for his successful company.

I met up with Jet2 CEO at HEYUPLAD HOUSE their Leeds HQ. From the outset it was clear that this was a driven business, I was offered a free cup of coffee which I thought was generous, however I had to pay £2.50 for the cup, a pound for the milk and 50p for the sugar, plus a further £1.00 as a fuel/CO2 surcharge to cover the air miles that the beans had covered from Columbia, still I didn’t think a fiver was bad value and handed over a £10 note but didn’t get any change. The CEO explained that had I booked it on line I could have had it half price for £8.50, when I looked a little puzzled, he quickly reminded me that 50% off plus the £3.50 credit card fee was £8.50.??

Moving on I asked the CEO how it all started, “well we had a very successful transport business making stacks of cash, one day I was getting dressed in the afternoon and my girl friend or was it my ex wife called me a fat cat business man, I was shocked. I looked down at my gut where my feet and willy used to be and I thought by god she right.

When I was next in the office a couple of weeks later I ordered a strategic review of our business to see where all this cash was coming from, we quickly found that we were running a fleet of 200+ tractor units that were modern and fuel efficient our drivers were making around £22k a year and were on the road 18 hours a day 6 days a week.

Things were going to have to change if I didn’t want to become an even fatter fat cat so I put my master plan (MP or PM in short) into place. We went out and bought a fleet of old fuel inefficient aircraft. Painted them battle ship grey and stuck a load of leather seats in them, this knocked a big hole in our cash, but not enough so we hired load of people to fly them and this is the clever bit, unlike our trucks you need two drivers and you have to pay them an average of £60K each!! What do you mean by an average?

Well the guy in the left seat is normally older, goes sick more often and moans much more than the guy in the right who younger better at the job and gives you less lip, so we pay the guy in the left £80k and the other guy around £40k, I sort of see.. Please continue.

Like most diets you get set backs and i was still getting fatter, so my next master stroke was to order some even older bigger aircraft that used even more fuel and dot them around Northern England at airports no one new existed, the really clever bit was that despite them being made by the same people, the same drivers can’t drive them so we need another set of crews and this at last started to help me slim down. And what other steps have you taken?

Well Cantright, there have been many. where other companies have employed agents and out sourced we haven’t, we employ the lot, pay their sick pay, maternity leave and we need people to manage them, which all helps us slim down plus we have now changed are business model again (the old one was starting to make me fatter again) so we now included inclusive holidays where we sort out the hotels the transport have local reps all over Europe. And do you think this will be enough?

It not an easy question but we do have a back up plan to start flying to the US if we are still getting fatter, the really clever bit about this is that we can’t fly direct from LBA because the road or is it called a runway? I forget isn’t long enough, so we would have to stop on the way over in somewhere called Gander, I admit we did panic when our pilot people told us we wouldn’t have stop on the way back, unless it was foggy at Leeds (which it nearly always is) so we can use up more fat bussing people back from Manchester then fly the aircraft back empty after the fog lifts. Well in winding up it you seem thought of everything, just a few more questions, did you meet any resistance from your Co Directors, were the happy to become thinner fat cats?

I did meet some resistance from finance and planning, but they have moved on to become even fatter elsewhere, the few objectors remaining soon found that the effort required in moving their homes and family from the warmth of the South coast up North was too much for them, it seems not everyone wanted to slim down. Do you see any risk that you might slip back into your old ways?


1 year (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/stocksearch?query=dart+group&searchBy=name&submit=Go#stock-chart-6#stock-chart-6)

Source: Reuters






In any business there is always risk and the graph above shows how far we have come in the last year alone, but yes if oil was to fall back to 20 dollars a barrel then yes we could get fatter again, but we have options on a fleet DC10 aircraft should that happen. I must admit when you first showed me the graph I thought that was the glide path on 14 at Leeds.

Finally as an inspiration to others, can you reveal just how much you have lost?
Well its sensitive information and I am planning to write a business book about it, but at my fat cat fattest I was worth about a £100 million and now it’s well below £20 million.

When will your book be out and do you have a title for it?
Yes it will be out on the 1st of April and called “Six easy steps to stop making money and destroy shareholder value” I will be signing copies out side Greggs near tent B at LBA until noon on the 1st of April

Well there you have it a fascinating and candid insight into the low cost aviation business, next week we have an interview with the MD of a local sports car dealership and why old ugly fat bald men buy soft top sports cars.

C. Antright

Feed back and right of reply to. [email protected]


In other news Harrogate Council Chairman Imam Atof has confirmed that following protests from the 680 pilots living in central Harrogate that high intensity cat eyes will be installed from the Prince of Wales roundabout to Pool in Wharfdale and red stop bars are to be set in the tarmac at all traffic lights, other measures will include pilot only parking spaces outside the towns estate agents, flat screen TV retailers and wine bars.

The Pilots group spokesman Luke Atmistripes said he welcomed the move and was confident that the plan to build a 15 room CC Bed & Breakfast unit would go ahead, he said it was important that cabin crew should not be forced to drive home after being bedded by pilots simply because they could not afford to buy property in Harrogate on their wages and it was a long way to drive to places like Birstal, Holbeck, Lysterdyke and Kirkstal when lashed.

Harrogate Cabin Crew spokewoman Wendy Shagnasty declined to comment

Happy 1st of April to all my ex work mates at Jet2........cargo doesn't complain when your late. Let the APU take the strain!!!!

[JB007]

As a Yorkshireman, from near Harrogate; I laughed!!!:ok:

A number of Ppruners seem to think that because they own out right some or all of their airframes that they are immune from any adverse exposure and can afford to park aircraft and crews and that the share price like wise doesn't matter because PM own's a large chunk of them??

Everytime I tried a debate based on nearly 20 years in aviation on the vulnerability of these airlines, I was decended on by spotters announcing how wrong I was...:rolleyes::ugh:

2008 will continue to be a testing one for Jet2...

[INKJET]

i'll drink to that

[A320fan]

Glad to see the share price on the rise :ok:

27p today, as oposed to 18p last week.


35.50p now :ok:

[jet2.con]

I glad to see the share price on the rise, but are we not creating a micro buying climate?

We have been encouraged twice in as many weeks to buy shares, once by Sir PM himself in his address to the staff even luring us with a reduced rate at some share dealing company he knows.

The second by the head of HR stating pretty much the same.

Now i'm not being negative here but X number of staff buying shares is surely going to increase the value of the shares themselves.

I've considering getting rid of mine just in case the buy buy turns quickly into sell sell as those buying drys up.

Happy prospecting!

[no sponsor]

I'd be careful with buying the stock. Very surprised to see two emails in as many days from HR and Meeson telling us to how easy it is to buy stock.

Stock in every airline is taking a nose dive, and if the Ryanairs/EZY of this world announce poor trading statements, then Jet2 will be severely hit, no matter how strong the fundamentals are.

Only invest in what you are willing/able to loose.

[colinhunn]

According to local press, there is to be an announcement over the next few days of a new low-cost operator from NWI flying to Alicante, Malaga and possibly 1 or 2 more. Can't think it will be Ryanair or Easyjet, Thomsonfly apparently scaling back. Any views on Jet2?

Colin

[JB007]

FlyBe with an EMB???

[INKJET]

ryanair with an ALC based unit most likely

[colinhunn]

No, definitely not Flybe as they came off the route last year and th MD of Norwich Airport said it would be a new operator for NWI.

Colin

[airhumberside]

I would be surprised if it was Jet 2 at the moment since they are in a phase of consolidation

[MUFC_fan]

Yes, I agree with airhumberside. They seem to be moving back to LBA with alot of their aircraft.

They have withdrawn alot from their MAN base. Just cannot see them move out of MAN and then into a smaller airport such as NWI. If they were to maintain their expansion I would have thought they would have done it at a larger airport such as MAN or NCL where they can put themselves in a very strong position. Also, the money to be made is alot higher at other airports on their route network at the moment.

Anyway, if the news is true, congrats to NWI and the airline that are up to the task remain that and don't 'do a FlyBe.'

[JB007]

No, definitely not Flybe as they came off the route last year and th MD of Norwich Airport said it would be a new operator for NWI.


Oh dear god...just realised my previous post made me look like a spotter...what in gods name was I thinking...! AGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[Ian Brooks]

JB007
Don`t worry I have ordered you an anorak

He He
Ian

[RAPC]

With regards to LBA - New York, I believe the PR and advertising on this is set for some time around 22nd April. (I might be out a couple of days either way - working from memory)

The agency that handles their advertising spend has been speaking to publishers about a campaign to go live along with the PR later this month.

[MUFC_fan]

Are LS planning a partnership with an American airline for onward connections? If so, they really are onto a winner!

What about LBA connections? ie) JFK-LBA-AGP all with LS?

Cheers.

[gearupflapsupshutup]

so how is the 'cargo' doing noticed 4 aircraft sitting still in EDI this morning/afternoon?

[kingdee]

for GSM ????:bored:

[Sean Dillon]

What about LBA connections? ie) JFK-LBA-AGP all with LS?

Is that what you'd do on your Flight Sim airline??!!!

How many people do you think live in the tri-state area that want to visit the Costa Del Sol...???? Go back to Air Humbersides website...

[BombardierCR7]

Aren't these New York flights just a few one off shopping charters?

[757 Speedbrakes]

Yep........

All a bit confusing. One minute all the crews are being told we're all to be ETOP's trained, the next we here it's just a handfull of Capts. / FO's.

Then we here that Winglets are being considered for two aircraft for cost saving on long sectors?????

The new Ops manuals are beginning to fill up with ETOPs and there's talk of a new flight planning system that can cope with it but it's all a long way off the structures that other airlines have.

One was hoping that it would all seem a lot more encoraging but the first few days of summer 08 don't exactly seem to have been the most promising of starts, especially after all the talk of better crewing / rostering guidelines. Although, in someways that has been caused by a lot of extra unplanned charter work which can only be good for the company - and in turn, the value of my shares!!!!

[TSR2]

Just noticed that Jet2 have very discreetly reduced Hold Baggage allowance from 20Kg to 17Kg per passenger. No doubt hoping to generate additional excess baggage income from unsuspecting passengers. Not a way to encourage repeat business.

[IB4138]

Until last year their hold baggage allowance was 18kgs.

Then they went up to 20kgs.

Yet another desperate,retrograde, money grabbing exercise after the fuel surcharge that has crept in . :hmm:

Will only drive passengers away.

[wawkrk]

Re: baggage changes.
From here in Krakow 36PLN per kg = 8.40GBP.
I usually have around 20kG so an extra 25 quid.
Plus return journey and all my other Jet2 flights.
This may be enough incentive for me to go back to KLM with my
privileged 50kg allowance although using connecting flights.

[s_insania]

Anyone know what the IFE is like on the 757's as I will be flying to PFO from LBA this summer, don't want to be stuck for 4 hours doing nothing :sad:

[757 Speedbrakes]

..............take a book.

[Jet2krazey]

There is no IFE on any Jet2 flights! we used to have Mezzo movies! a type of hand held DVD player with inbuilt films and programs but they didnt sell very well so were eventually scrapped! :sad:

[Jet2krazey]

When oil has gone from £290 a barrel 2 yrs ago to nearly £1000 a barrel today. the money has to be made somewhere! especially when ticket prices dont even cover the cost of operating the flight! The money is made up from pre bookable seats, pre paid baggage, extra leg room seats! and onboard sales! excess baggage, and so on! :)

[wawkrk]

So share the cost with all pax and increase the fares.
Extra baggage revenue is hit and miss.

[Jet2krazey]

all locos are now charging for most extras! to keep ticket prices low to compete with each other! i for one would prefer they just charge more for the ticket to cover the fuel increase, but pax are not gonna fly with us if other locos are cheaper than us on the ticket price! :sad:

[wawkrk]

This situation is false.The ticket can be any price and the rest made up from extra charges.I then must assume locos expect to attract pax with limited intelligence. From my experience this is probably true.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Was told yesterday that Jet 2 are having problems and are now having to pay cash for fuel.

Any truth in that?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Jet2Krazey,

Whilst oil prices have been soaring over recent months causing acute problems for many carriers, we are fortunately still well short of the £1000 level for a barrel of oil.

Latest reported prices are:

Brent Crude: USD$108.70
West Texas Intermediate (WTI): USD$110.40

Of course, that's still enough to give airline executives sleepless nights! Especially those whose fuel requirements are unhedged.

[757 Speedbrakes]

Jet2 did hedge their fuel price. Can't remember until when................ June me-thinks?

I had a mild heart attack when I saw $1000 per barrel on your post too!! :\.

At that rate, I'd need to re-morgage every time I drove my car, which i'm not far off at the moment anyway! :{

[Jet2krazey]

Sorry i must have miss heard at work! maybe it was £1000 a barrel of fuel! i dont know but thats what there saying is the reasons for all the cutbacks at work! :confused:

[no sponsor]

Slim - where did you hear that from? Bloke in the pub?

I signed for the fuel the other day on a chit, like we always have, and no cash in a brown envelope...

[Rosco3009]

Why do so many people seem to have it in for Jet2? Why do so many people want to spread unfounded rumours such as the last about paying cash for fuel? Where did you hear this from?

I'm sure profits for many of these sort of airlines will be under pressure but if the business is in the dire straits that many on this thread are speculating then Mr M does not deserve to run a business again given that he has been encouraging his staff to buy shares in the last few weeks.

If we believed everything we read and heard in the media at the moment we are doomed. If you read below the headlines the wiser people are not so downbeat.

[757 Speedbrakes]

Anyone know if she's still in Lasham? Or was it Southend?

Heard she was coming in April - maybe they meant April 2009..........

[tonker]

That means we got away with 6 tons last night for free!!!!

What nonesense:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jet2impress]

This is ridiculous. So where do you expect the crew to find the cash?? This is nonsense!!

[757 Speedbrakes]

Its true at Newcastle at least. Have been told they are on stop list and to only accept cash for fuel.


Bollocks.

Typical rubbish thread as usual that we've come to expect from Ginga Worm.

[trebor]

I agree what aload of rubbish. Also where are the cutbacks I seem to have missed them.

[LOGICAL]

I dont think you are any of those things, i do however think you are a bit of a spotter playing at being an expert.

[UK019]

Slim Shady - no there isn't.

Furthermore, the Worm's comment - stating a 'truth' ... is simply plain untrue. It is also damaging and dangerous to those of us who are employed here.

Worm, there are hundreds of people earning an honest living from this Company and, whilst this is a rumour board, this one is malicious and could undermine public confidence from a basis of absolutely no validity whatsoever. This is serious and scurrilous.

I have a certain level of responsibility at Jet2 (some will realise my identity from my username) and therefore, as you will see, I normally don't post except in 'light' areas such as 'Where are they now?' But I cannot let this pass without commenting, because I am incensed that such an outright lie can be posted without any personal accountability.

I can assure you that in keeping with all similar airlines including, for example, EasyJet, we are taking measures to be economical with fuel. That most certainly does not include paying cash for it.

I have read all of your 23 posts - many of them are unpleasant and bitter .. but now please desist from making false statements that if made openly in public would be actionable.

[EI-BUD]

HI UK019 I read your post, and sense your frustrations. However, the soundings from the media in the last year have all been on the negative side, such as profits not at expectations, airline may rationalise, airline doesnt meet its targets etc. However, this doesnt give ppl the right to post widely untrue information as you suggest and seem to know better.

At Belfast International there is what i would say a very underutilised fleet of 737s and 757s. So often the 757 just sits doing nothing and many of the 737s are often parked during daylight hours and leaving late etc. I cant understand why this is so, one would have thought that higher utilisation would have made sense?

[no sponsor]

EI-BUD

Aircraft appear under-utilised due to the recent winter season. Under performing routes have been cut at most bases, and the 757 is used only if there are the passengers to fill it, otherwise it would make sense to use a 737 - would you not agree?

Jet2 has a rather large contract with the Royal Mail, and the 737s you see are in fact Quick Change aircraft - where all seats are removed and containers loaded. These operate weekday evenings/nights to various airports in the UK.

The summer season will see a heavier utilisation of aircraft again, as is the same with most other charter and low-cost operators.

[HiflierEK]

Jet2 making cut backs by taking the cabin crews comission. This has not gone down well and is in the hands of the union. I hope we strike !!!

[Facelookbovvered]

Well that would help :rolleyes:

[757 Speedbrakes]

I hope we strike !!!


For the first time ever I'm going to say I don't agree with that comment, due to current climate but please, lets not start that debate. :=

I know the change in commision is a big kick in the b***cks but don't go making rash statements that cause rumors and mass panick!!

I'm a BALPA member too but why go and make the companies costs higher at a time when it could ruin them? :ugh: The time to campaign is when the company starts doing well again (we hope!) and I'll be the first to start ranting over T & C's!!

I know the above view won't sit well with many but I'd like to keep my job for a while yet.......................

[MUFC_fan]

Surely LS knew they weren't going to accpet that lightly?!

If I was a cabin member on an LS a/c, I would still fly, get paid but not offer the service.

You aren't losing anything and still getting paid!:ok:

[jet2impress]

That could never happen. Management would wipe the floor with us!! :ouch:

[BABDUCK]

Dear All,

Point 1:- A motion to strike in a non-unionised airline will only result in risking everyone’s job, in every department. Having spoken to many crew members I can tell you that it is only a very very few militant members of crew who have the views to strike. Given the current airline climate, and the number of applications we receive it would not be overly difficult to replace those who chose this risky, and rather illegal tactic.

For those of you who read this and wish to strike can I offer you this one bit of advice; leave quietly, hold your head up high and move on, because when you don’t, and do decide to strike you may lose your job, and any opportunity to work in this industry again. Just give the rest of us, the ones who really care about the airline, our families, our jobs and our mortgages a fighting chance to solve this issue by using the correct channels.

Point 2:- Over the past month or so I have personally signed for the best part of 150 tonnes or £81,000 of fuel, and not once was it questioned or queried. Oh and this did include NCL... Rash comments to the contrary posted by our “spotter” friend are false to say the very least. I do hope that people reading this forum look at the comments that have been posted and wish the airline the best of luck, for those that don’t; well I ask you to target your negativity into your own lives, not ours.

Unfortunately, having worked for several airlines that are no longer in existence, I wouldn’t wish the misery and heartache of watching all your friends lose their jobs on one day upon my worst enemy, don’t wish it on us.

BD & TH

[harrogate]

Jet2 making cut backs by taking the cabin crews comission. This has not gone down well and is in the hands of the union. I hope we strike !!!

Oh for God's sake, have a bloody word with yourself!

It's very clear that the company haven't done this to line the pockets of the board. They're doing it in order that the company remains viable and that you all stay in jobs.

It's life. Take the rough with the smooth, and live in hope of better times ahead, like 95% of the rest of the population. Of earth.

If the management didn't take action like this, and the company subsequently went under, you lot would all be crying about how incompetent the bosses were in letting it go to the wall. It's self preservation.

Take it on the chin and prepare to ride it out. If you strike en masse you will lose your job and probably take the company down with you.

Engage brain.

PS - Gingaworm's comments are actionable, even though he/she thinks he/she's making them anonymously. IP addresses are very easily traced from these forums, if you're inclined. Doesn't affect me either way, but I can tell you that the repeated false and unverifiable comments of said poster can land him/her in hot water if someone were to pursue them. The lawyer sat opposite me says so.

[Leodis]

Agree or disagree it's a forum and Gingaworm is entitled to his or her opinion. Also I don't think PPRUNE would be keen to give away IP addresses to third parties. It would be very damaging to the reputation of the forum.

[Curious Pax]

I think you'll find that if it came anywhere near legal action (and they have stated this in the past) then Danny & co would be passing on IP addresses quicker than the quickest person in Quicksville! Why should they suffer for a poster shooting his mouth off?

[flybar]

Leodis - I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the reputation of the forum would triumph, in a legal battle, over the reputation of Dart Group PLC

[redmech]

Back to point. I would surport the cabin crew standing for there rights, but don't push it to far, as other posters have said and I have seen it before, any action could damage other people who works for the company. I am not saying just sit and take it and that you are not important enought to make a stand because cabin crew play just as big a part as everyone who works for an airline if not bigger due to been in the pubblic eye.

Have been told the unions are talking to the company about the commishion subject, and it looks like they are not saying its writen in stone yet, so it could change. :confused:

In what ever the cabin crew determin to do good luck. just be carefull.

[757 Speedbrakes]

Agree or disagree it's a forum and Gingaworm is entitled to his or her opinion.


Perhaps but not when there is intent to deliberately cause worry for those of us who actually do work for an airline.

I find it amazing that someone would want to see an airline colapse and its employees suffer.


It would be very damaging to the reputation of the forum.


My understanding of PPRUNE is that it's for the discussion / rumors of things like routes, handling, the occasional winge about an airline having delayed / cancelled flights, job interviews etc for those directly involved in the airline industry.

The increase in malicious and false posts for the sake of harming reputations is the main reason why those who are really in the know get fed up with this website.

Rant over.

[no sponsor]

There is no doubt that the whole issue of the recent commission payments could have been handled better.

However, strike action is always the last possible course of action open to union members once certain legal hurdles have been under-taken.

One action for those who do not like the situation, their compensation, or their conditions is to leave the company - no one is forcing you to stay.

BTW - I signed for fuel today, yesterday, and the day before that.

[nclops]

Agree or disagree it's a forum and Gingaworm is entitled to his or her opinion.

Yes, he/she is entitled to his/her opinion but he/she wasn't voicing their opinion, they were making a statement which was simply untrue and potentially damaging to others!

[ncleflights]

Now management at LS have decided to cut back comission paid to cabin crew this coming only a few weeks after the email encouraging staff to buy shares.

This must ring alarm bells for the folks working at LS that the airline is in trouble. I hope they can get themselves sorted as they are a good airline with a lot of good folks working for them. However and its a big however as things stand I know of now other company on the scale of LS in recent times that has reduced staff's wages, which is in effect what reducing comission is, to help keep going and succeded.

[Channex101]

I understand what everyone is saying with regard the company cutting costs to survive, and yes we will all have jobs, but they pay is what attracts some of us to this company, its not a bad paid airline. (untill now lol)
What im hacked off at is the fact that the pay cut is not company wide, cut EVERYONES wage, not just the crew. But lets get technical about it, they are being very very sly about this, our commission is not in our contract, its an extra to what are wage is, therefore they can get away with it.
To add insult to injury we were all "made" to attend a voluntary roadshow (which no one got paid for - if it was explained it was vol i wouldnt have gone) and we had sales forced down our neck, tought how to suck eggs and tell us that the company wants to make 8mil instead of 5mil in onboard sales, yet the people that sell it are getting shafted left right and centre at moment. A lot of experienced crews have took this as the straw that broke the camels back and are looking elsewhere, its a shame, Jet2 are about to loose a lot of good crew.... Its going to cost them more in the long run, A good 15 crew inc senior trainers have just left MAN to go to BA - dont blame them!

[no sponsor]

FLB- Changing conditions or terms which affect your compensation which are not explicitly in your contract is not a material change, and therefore will not be determined as constructive dismissal. A material change, which necessarily implies a contract change, that is forced upon you causing you to resign is constructive dismissal.

It seems the former applies in this case. I suspect they have done their homework with reference to employment law.

I have not heard of a single CC talk of a strike. Only on this forum. As stated, you can't just say 'strike', and the next moment set up a picket line. There is a legal course of action to take. As an aside, I don't know of any cabin crew who are even in a union, so it would be very difficult. En-masse resignations would be a different matter, however.

[dominic.kane]

Shame to see a good airline with good crew going this way! Can't help thinking that retrenchment to LBA (and deserting PAX at other airports) rather than targetted expansion at MAN/NCL (and others) wasn't the greatest idea - see my previous post. At the end of the day its the customers that pay the wages and make the profits!:ugh:

[Homesick]

I believe the company is taking advantage of the present climate to target the workforce they believe will take it on the chin. If things are that bad they need to take a relative small amount of cash from the cabin crew to keep Jet2 afloat then we are in serious trouble. The cabin crew are the face of the company. They are the front line staff. They have been made to feel worthless. I have never worked with such de moralised crew in all my years of flying, and our passengers will pick up on it.

A large number of cabin crew are looking elsewhere for a job but I doubt many will leave, and this the company knows. I do not like selfish views of some of the flight deck on here who believe it should be just accepted. Would they just accept a company policy of only getting sector pay if they burnt less than plog fuel, or you had to be in the top 100 of the fuel league table.

The company is penny pinching and taking it from the most vulnerable in the company. This low moral has spread to the flight deck. I only wished the company realised how many are looking for jobs elsewhere, me included. I do not believe the company is anywhere near going out of business, just taking advantage of the present financial climate. Fuel has gone up and will continue to rise. This has to be passed on to the traveller, not taken out of staffs wages so our passengers don't foot the bill. I can't see shell reducing staffs salary to ensure I continue fuelling my car with their petrol!

[MMENCLLBAMAN]

I have never worked with such de moralised crew in all my years of flying, and our passengers will pick up on it.



Flew back from AGP last week and CDG more recently (dont want to give exact details in case get the crew in trouble) and I can say that the crew on both flights were certainly not trying to hide their frustrations - I was sat at the front of the aircraft as usual and the conversations regarding commissions (have to make more than £750 per flight in order to be paid or something along those lines) and the possibility of strike actions was the hot topic in the galley with little regard to who could hear.

I understand completley the sentiments of anyone who has had a part of their wage taken away, however I would recommend caution about who is in ear shot.

[dochealth]

Hi,

Due to fly Dub - Verona on Jet 2 in mid June for family holiday..

Do Jet 2 insiders think you will still be flying in 2 months??

[Channex101]

YES!!! its all crap what people are saying, the airline has ALWAYS made a profit since day one.... just this year its not gonig to be as big s forcasted, but still a minumin of say 5 Million... so no probs!
How come your flying DUB-VRN with us? must be a charter anyway not an actual Jet2 flight