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Jet2 - 3

Old 31st Jan 2007, 15:16
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Jet2 - 3

Yeah but low cost and longhaul don't go together easily in the same sentence, hence why nobody is really doing it. Longhaul is very expensive compared to sorthaul around the EU. It also doesn't fit the low cost business model. Low cost works on shorthaul routes because you can maximise turnarounds and utilisation, getting several 'fresh' sets of pax onboard in any one day. All these pax added together will be paying more than one set going transatlantic. Plus you can sell more to lots of new pax than you can the same ones on an 8hr sector!

Also think of tech problems and recovery etc. I can't quite see there being the sheer volume of flights to offer the choice that the passenger wants, which enables lo-cos to just cancel the flight and transfer everyone onto the next. What if your a/c goes tech in the US and you don't have another flight scheduled for 3 days? You can't quite leave everyone and say 'tough' we will book you on the next flight in 3 days time! The route structure needs to be big enough, and often enough to make the model work without adding SIGNIFICANT costs. It wouldn't take many transatlantic sub-charters to wipe out all the profits for a month on a route.......

It is also very heavy on crews and if you don't have the frequency then you will not be able to get them flying 900hrs a year, and positioning and hotel costs are significant.

This is why nobody is really doing any significant longhaul low cost service, it would be attempting to make a model fit something it wasn't intended to fit! If Jet2 find a way round those problems then good luck to them. The problem is that you could sell the seats, but you had better get the pricing right to cover all the (inevitable) problems which will erode margins. That's why every airline has stuck to what the model fits best....

PP

Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221244&page=19
Pilot Pete is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2007, 16:39
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I would definitely rather be stuck in US for 3 days instead of somewhere like Lithuania where they don't speak English.

There are many ways in which LS can operate the routes.

Due to their growing 752 a/c, they would be able to supplement the 752 on tech to fly the route, and bring in one of the charter Channel Express a/c that are sat waiting for charters.

The only problem I think that LS have is offering Upper Economy seats, which is not part of the current service. The Upper Economy seats make the airlines such as flyzoom and flyglobespan (they also offer business class) the most money from a flight.
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Old 31st Jan 2007, 20:02
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I would definitely rather be stuck in US for 3 days instead of somewhere like Lithuania where they don't speak English.
So you would tell that to your fee paying longhaul pax would you?
they would be able to supplement the 752 on tech to fly the route, and bring in one of the charter Channel Express a/c that are sat waiting for charters.
Are you saying they would have spare aircraft hanging around not flying to cover for tech aircraft? That increases costs straight away. See the problem? And you can't use a 737 to rescue a 757 load unless you are flying the 757 with a low load factor.....which doesn't fit the low cost model. And of course there is the pond between the 737 and the tech aircraft.
The only problem I think that LS have is offering Upper Economy seats, which is not part of the current service
I would have thought that was one of the easier problems to overcome for such a venture. It is certainly not the 'only' problem.
PP
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Old 31st Jan 2007, 20:08
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The fact Jet2 are moving into selling package holidays (a Jet2 branded website sat on top of the 'On Holiday Group' booking engine) might lend more credibility than usual to these rumours. Although the site is live, there has been no marketing or PR push to give us any idea exactly what the plan is and how aggressively they will chase this market. If they do make a go of it, it could open up options to launch services on a mixed scheduled / charter basis to destinations that perhaps would not work on a 100% seat-only basis, Orlando perhaps being one example. Greece, Cyprus, Egypt, Turkey being others.

Meanwhile, I wonder how they are getting on chasing the bmi CDG slots. They've been handed back and I would have assumed SL, PM and co would done whatever they could to have got to the front of the queue to try and get them. Don't imagine the slots will be around for long.

682
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Old 2nd Feb 2007, 06:36
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The Jet2 holidays site is now being advertised on their regular homepage. Much the same as the websites of the other IT companies, but quite red.

Having had Thomsons etc move it offering seat-only deals, it's interesting to see Jet2 heading the other way.

PTH
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Old 2nd Feb 2007, 13:03
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In my opinion Jet2 have got it absolutely spot on.
They are already well established as a scheduled loco carrier.
Any extra business from the IT market is a bonus.
As I have said before, the old style package is dead.
No freedom of choice when to travel, only the notorius change over days available. Resort reps treating clients like children and giving the hard sell.
In the case of LBA many pax lost to Manchester because they could offer more change over days.
But, Jet2 can still offer the full IT service to those customers who feel more comfortable with it. It`s all about choice.Not available in the past.
I think this new venture could become huge. Jet2 could suck up most of beleaguered Tuifly`s clients particularly at LBA.
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Old 3rd Feb 2007, 14:46
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I also believe that jet2 is being quite clever, in that it is not putting all its eggs into one basket and at the end of the day work is work and ultimately revenue. Having said that I disagree with the previous post saying that the traditional package holiday format is dead, this simply isn't true. What is true is because of the options now available the market that was the package holiday is now a lot smaller. There are still many people that would prefer a package, whether they are families, the elderly or generally people that would like all the organisation done for them with the back up guarantees. The charter carriers do have to adapt to the changing market and there will be I believe a period of consolidation in the industry.
Anyway good luck jet2.

Ron
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Old 11th Feb 2007, 13:53
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It'd be nice to see Jet2 get into the long haul market but there's some real problems ahead.
Their place is Leeds and the problem there is it's an airport built around a shitehouse runway. If they try and compete with the other guys at Manchester they could get bruised and battered in an already tight market. Plus the lack of decent 767s is there to think about too.

Cyprus might be good for them but flying pikeys to Sanford is too tight a market!
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Old 11th Feb 2007, 14:10
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Stansted would be a good JET2 longhaul base, after all, European loco's feedeing a longhaul loco, where better, the passengers are waiting in there 1000's for someone to start the venture, Stansted would hardly be a risky choice would it.
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Old 11th Feb 2007, 21:17
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I agree the IT market is not dead + buried - yet..

There are still many people who don't have the knowledge and the time to make their DIY holiday.

I think Jet 2 should stay in Europe for a few more years before attempting anything Global.

This is what they have proved to be good at.

The Holiday arm is a good idea and should prove popular.

Regards.
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Old 11th Feb 2007, 21:23
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Jet2 would be head to head with Titan at Stanstead. Still a bit of linkage there. Jet2 could clean up with the cruise ship trips but there you go. P M is the only guy who knows where Jet2 is going to go next
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Old 11th Feb 2007, 21:54
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A STN-JFK or BOS would be a winner for Jet2, the only transatlantic flights from STN are MAXJET and EOS, both business class, even a normal class flight would do very well from STN never mind a loco.
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Old 11th Feb 2007, 22:47
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Can't see Jet2 been the slightest bit interseted in starting anything global from London. If they don't fly short hall from STN why would they go long haul from STN.

Jet2 has its roots in the North and any expansion into long haul is probably going to be from one of their Northern bases. Blackpool anon starter and Leeds would be tricky but it may well work from Manchester or Newcastle where they already compete on many routes with other airlines. However as they are having trouble aquiring suitable 757s for SO7 I can't see any expansion long haul for a while. Stansted though is simply wishfull thinking and based on no firm logic as to why a airline with an excellent network in the North would suddenly open a base in the London area to do simply long haul. If they do use a London airport it would be more more likely to be Gatwick which is where their Manchester and Newcastle domestic operations fly into.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 09:44
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Jet2 have a base in STN, currently mail, papers and passenger charter ops with a QC.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 10:06
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Yes but it is really one of the old Channex bases not a true Jet2 as it isn`t a passenger operation in reality, just happens to be a convertable B737 so can do pax charters during day

Ian
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 11:18
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Have the engineers at STN not just been laid off?
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 11:19
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Would that mean that BFS and NCL are not proper JET2 bases then? Both started with and continue to operate QC aircraft on Royal Mail operations

I don't think STN will ever be a scheduled operations base, but stranger things have happened; I think that most of the STN crews enjoy the mix of work, and the balance between pax and frt sectors is not far off a 50/50 mix most of the time. Although the passenger sectors tend to be longer.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 16:52
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4screwaircrew - To call Belfast or Newcastle not proper Jet2 bases, your head is more in the clouds that most Jet2 aircraft. Look at the expansion at both these BASES in the last few months.

As has already been stated by previous comments Stansted is a minor airport for Jet2 left over from the old channel express days and can't see Jet2 going to the expense of maintaining a base at Stansted for much longer with the little return they must get from the investment.

Why mix it up with the likes of Ryanair and Easy etc from Stansted when they can continue to improve on routes from Belfast, Newcastle, Leeds etc. They do after all make a big point in all the adverts they run of been a NORTHERN airline
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 17:32
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ncleflights - I think you have misinterpreted what 4Screwaircrew said - he was asking the question, not making a statement.
I suspect that the STN base might continue for some time yet - they do some rather lucrative work down there and have more than enough activity to occupy them for the summer ahead!

Anyone any info on the leased capacity for the summer, other than the 146 for NCL-LGW? Talk of two 737-400s.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 17:41
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ncleflights I was pointing out the flawed logic, not knocking the bases. I have flown for the company since the days of the Herald, and fully appreciate the effect of commencing passenger operations in the North of England. I would not like to see us take on EZY and RYR head to head at STN that way lies a bloody nose.

The Royal Mail plays a much larger part in the ecenomics of this airline than many people not directly involved in the airline realise.

14 loop thank you, internal rumour says 2x 400 from Futura, but we shall wait and see.

Regards to one and all
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