RAF JPA Rollout [Archive]

SARREMF

27th Mar 2006, 21:10

Soooooo, if I dont get paid can I say they have breached my contract and thus I can consider they have severed my employment/contract. Yipeeee
Then I could miss out on that wonderfull new addition [care of the lovely JPA ]- the loss of 50% of my flying pay during my PVR [which was not in my terms of service when I joined/signed up/signed on etc because I had paid my time and had been retained enough] oh forgot, they can change terms of service any time they like I just have to bend further forward and say 'OOhh just a little more sir'!
Sorry, thats been brewing for a few weeks now.
Ok, loyalty pills.....check.
Lets see ... Increase dose with time served ..... one loyalty pill per year plus an extra 5 per computer system roll out ..... thats .... oh lets call it 30 for capped cash amounts!
Oh, name a computer system that we have introduced in the last 30 years that works as required/requested?
LITS? ALFENS? SAMA? made my point!
Now where is that Bank managers number for overdaft facilities!

ratty1

27th Mar 2006, 21:11

Now I do feel sorry for those on PAS :cool: or Flying Pay , how will they manage to do this....:rolleyes:
You wont have this problem as you are on neither...........;)

ANAPROP

28th Mar 2006, 14:15

We'll get paid this month as it was done by the old system before they pulled the plug. It's April we need to worry about. Apparently though, we should all keep a month's pay in reserve, so that's OK then!
I did hear that if the April JPA pay run fails (planned for the 18th I believe) they will re-run the March pay run, so no need to plan a contingency. Can anyone confirm this?

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

28th Mar 2006, 14:21

You wont have this problem as you are on neither...........;)

Careful Ratty;

He may be on Submariners, Bomb Disposal or Crew Pay!!!:p
Or was that another thread!!!;)

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

Edited for Red Wine Speeling!!!

Ali Barber

30th Mar 2006, 07:16

Pay day is last working day of the month. Out here the weekend is Thursday/Friday and banks are about to shut. No sign of any pay having gone in yet. May be just local incompetence though and nothing to do with JPA.

Pontius Navigator

30th Mar 2006, 09:16

SARREMF - ASMA and SOMA. Run by operators for operators.

Thing about SOMA was its high overheads.

About 8 units each with a near full-time commissioned minder (Lyneham had a MACR - less secrets :) ). At Strike there was a full time software engineer and a FOFL with a sqn ldr minder. The course was a week (or maybe two) with annual refreshers, audits etc.

There was also an on-call hardware contractor on a 4-hour notice. Each station had a twin kit (except Lyneham) and two dedicated computer rooms.

If it crashed and you lost data it was probably down to ineptitude by the manager. I hold my hand up now although I blagged it at the time:)

The system was so good that the RNZAF actually wanted to buy it when we had finished with it:p

SirToppamHat

30th Mar 2006, 14:17

Ha anyone received notification of their Boarding School Allowance (Continuity of Eucation Allowance to give it its correct title now) for the Summer Term yet?

I am pretty sure I should have received notification of payment by now - I have certainly received the bills!

STH

Biggus

30th Mar 2006, 14:25

STH

Ominous silence on that front where I am. Last year I received my notification of payment for the Summer term in mid February, but nothing this year! I went into PSF today, ignoring all the 'closed for JPA introduction' signs and asked directly. They are chasing it up for me, in terms of will it happen on time, and should have an answer tomorrow!!

Watch this space........

SirToppamHat

30th Mar 2006, 14:33

Thanks Biggus.

The School Bursar's pretty good about this sort of thing, but I suspect many schools will expect parents to pay irrespective of the RAF's cock-ups.

STH

Stop Start

30th Mar 2006, 19:42

STH

No CEA chit for me also. Spoke to handbrake house who told me they couldn't help! No shocks there. Spoke to JPAC who told me they couldn't discuss pay over the telephone without a password(not issued). I then got some sense out of the nice chap at allowances who said that it was being paid as a seperate pay run on 6 April. Hopefully he's right!

Regards

SS

Ali Barber

30th Mar 2006, 19:56

My apologies, pay has gone in.

StopStart

31st Mar 2006, 10:18

Further to worried emails from obviously concerned friends and colleagues, the real Stopstart has no children, secret or otherwise, and so cares not about boarding school allowance or CEA or whatever it's called.
Thank you. Carry on.
:hmm:

Grimweasel

31st Mar 2006, 12:28

With regard to the CEA payments, anyone who submitted the legacy forms up to yesterday, will be happy to know that the JPAC are running the upload of the spreadsheet containing all the info on Monady 3rd.
Payment to Bank accounts in mid April.
See AFPAA site for JPA Bulletin on this matter later today.
Hope this quells the un-ease?

Testingtheseatlimit

31st Mar 2006, 14:01

For Aeronut:

$10 for B'Fast
$52 for Lunch and Dinner

You can underspend on B and L and use more for D as long as you do not exceed $62. Don't forget IE of $17 per day recepts not needed for under $8 spend on IE, just log it and sign your own chit at end of det. Fun isn't it. Also, don't forget to envy your civil servant mates who do not have any capping, just asked to be sensible. Makes you feel like the scum of the Earth doesn't it? :(

Regards

Testing

Sloppy Link

31st Mar 2006, 16:04

I think you will find that it is the civil servants who made the rules for us in the first place. The civil service is about the same strength as all three services combined. A FoI question regarding the difference in amount paid to HM Forces in T&S and the civil service T&S would make interesting reading.

Pontius Navigator

31st Mar 2006, 18:08

Don't forget the sensible civil servant is also allowed half a bottle of the Chateau d'Finest and remember the coffee and chocs.

The accommodation must however be booked within the grade limit through CHBS. Non-CHBS is limited to £55. If the accommodation is over the grade limit then the Budman can approve - not a jobsworth in the travel cell.

Biggus

1st Apr 2006, 07:11

STH

I got a message from my allowances section yesterday that payment of boarding school allowance (or CEA or whatever it is called these days!!) is on track for payment in mid April!

This would seem to confirm Grimweasel's comment, he sounds far more informed on the matter than I am! So at least you have heard it now from more than one source - so what could possibly go wrong, go wrong, go wrong .................

Banana Boy

1st Apr 2006, 15:27

So, you go out to dinner with your mates. You get a joint bill and then split the total, because it is so much easier. Can you photocopy the one receipt and produce that for audit, claiming an appropriate share? If so, what is to stop you making a few more copies and giving a spare to your mate who decided to eat in Burger King that night?

Then there is the subject of the tip for the nice waitress, especially in those countries where tipping is almost mandatory. Is an additional 10% on your bill total going to be acceptable?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a system where they just gave you a reasonable sum of money for each day that you were away, and you could just spend it as you wished......?

Pontius Navigator

1st Apr 2006, 16:14

Where we have shared a meal, say split 5-ways, the hotel usually puts it down as 'dinner' and that is that. Whether you had the sandwich andhe had the lobster matters not a jot - you both pay the £25 and each UIN bears the same weight.

Where the bill is itemised and you shell out an equal amount then that is a little more difficult. You can then 'ring' your items that come near the average.

Tips are permitted in the civil service. However the military receipts only have to be retained for 12 months! In the CS it is 3 years.

Down 4 Reprogram

1st Apr 2006, 17:12

BB

The way I read the JSP that governs capped actuals, the amount set for each meal includes an assumption that you will tip up to 10%. So in the UK dinner is something like £21, i.e. £19.09 for 3 courses and a drink + £1.91 tip!

D4R

Ginseng

1st Apr 2006, 17:15

Banana Boy,

Provided that there is no service or cover charge already shown on the bill, it is acceptable to reclaim a tip actually paid, provided that in combination with the actual expenditure on the meal it does not exceed the capped limit. There is no absolute fixed percentage, since it is recognised that appropriate levels vary between countries due to cultural differences. Nevertheless, a guide level of 10% maximum is suggested to be the reasonable norm. Remember, this still has to come from within your capped limit, otherwise it is not a valid claim. See JSP 752 for details.

Biggus, Grimweasel,

Your information is essentially correct. A notice was placed on the AFPAA website on friday saying that the supplementary pay run for CEA would take place on 6th April, with payments reaching bank accounts by "mid-April". This is uncomfortable. In previous years, the due date for payment for this term was 6th April. My school will take the fees from my account by direct debit on 18th April, the first banking day after the Easter break. I do hope that "mid-April" is a worst-case estimate!

Regards

Ginseng

Banana Boy

1st Apr 2006, 20:05

PN, D4R and Ginseng,

Thanks for replies. Have the honour to be deployed over the JPA April Fool's transition date and no JSPs to hand, so all information gratefully received.

Unsurprisingly, the standard of eating across all ranks has increased dramatically today. People are eating vegetables for the first time in days and some people have managed to scoff their way right up to (and beyond) the capped actuals limit! We may ward of scurvey with JPA, but it will come at the price of obesity.

BB

Pylot

2nd Apr 2006, 09:18

Down 4 Reprogram

2nd Apr 2006, 13:08

Hmmm... Under the old rates rules, if the cost of a menu was more than the rate provided you could go onto actuals and provide copies of the menu as evidence.

However, for the new system if the capped actual is not enough to provide the required standard of meal, can you still spend more than the cap as long as you can evidence the need to?

D4R

ChezTanker

2nd Apr 2006, 13:10

Bring it on - personnally I will be eating better than ever. Organic food only, 3 courses and half a bottle of something expensive and the devil take the capped limit, you can't get 3 courses for £20 in Blighty Copy of the menu and the company credit card. Anyone got a spare copy of the Michelin Guide? Bon Apetite!!

Probably worth reading the guidance carefully since this will not be the previous efforts at actuals. A half bottle of lafitte or Opus 1 will bring about the same response as 'lobster'. Bonne courage :)

Grimweasel

2nd Apr 2006, 15:52

The people policing the Capped Actuals etc will be fellow RAF types. I have spoke to Chf Clrks who all know the score and are happy to authorise small 'drinks' with a meal as they have generally been there before. DCDS (Pers) said that he doesn't want this whole JPA programme to become an exercise in over zealous policing by right wing nazi types looking to hang everyone for going 5p over budget!!

As mentioned before, FSI will be retained by Lyn, BZN, and Northholt so there isn't much of an issue at the moment??

The best place to keep up to speed with all the issues on roll-out is the AFPAA website under Service Delivery Support Team/JPA operational bulletins.

The Rogue

3rd Apr 2006, 06:43

588DKr for lunch and supper. I managed it on two courses!

BengOBoB

3rd Apr 2006, 09:32

Is it correct that the disturbance allowance has now been reduced for Officers?? Seeing as I've moved private to private I've never had my removals paid for and was relying on DA to pay for that ........:bored:

Pontius Navigator

3rd Apr 2006, 10:19

BengoBob, hush your mouth.

DA has been greatly improved under JPA. Now all the singlies get DA and this is seen as a major benefit of the change.:)

of course there is no new money and it had to come from somewhere. Guess where.:}

Course as a CS the moves tend to be at request rather than forced so the allowance is only about £5k

BengOBoB

3rd Apr 2006, 12:15

any idea on figures??:{

I know that as of last month the DA was about £1100.......

Pontius Navigator

3rd Apr 2006, 13:00

No, all I know is that DA was a 'red card' entry on the brief to stn cdrs with discretionary permission to diseminate. Try handbrake house.

Talking of handbrake house, all change over the hill.

Admin Wg was disbanded on Saturday, now we go to Base Support Wing. Likewise now that JPA is fully up and running without problems, Personnel Services Flight has also undergone a name change. It is now known as PSF or Personnel Support Flight.

As this is a rumour network, how does 20% or even £800 sound :}

Axial Flo

3rd Apr 2006, 13:52

Just to squash the rumours here are the new rates for Disturbance Allowance from 01 Apr 06 according to JSP752:
Privately Owned 1650
Privately Rented 969
SFA/SSFA 969
SLA/SSLA 75
Child Element per eligable child 130
I don't know what the old figures were so I can't say whether this is an improvement or not.
Flo

South Bound

3rd Apr 2006, 14:02

That would be about a £200 drop for SFA....Hmmm, makes sense I suppose as redirecting mail, services, hotel bills while relocating, new curtains etc etc have all dropped in price over the past year...

I wonder if there will be much interest in the Tranche 3 redundancies...? (Anyone know why the announcement has been delayed until Wednesday?)

akula

3rd Apr 2006, 17:41

Bengo,
I have recently moved private to private and had the removals paid for(and organised), so I think you might want a chat with your friendly allowances section:ok:

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

Pontius Navigator

3rd Apr 2006, 17:49

Akula, with respect I suspect your post is irrelevant. If you had the move today, or were given the allowance today, then it is clear that is was organised and approved before JPA; it is therefore a legacy transaction.

If OTOH it was an agreement made today then apologies, unless of course Personnel Support Flight got it wrong.

akula

3rd Apr 2006, 18:04

I could suggest that unless Bengo's posting and subsequent move took place after Friday:suspect: :suspect: (very efficient) then there may well be a modicum relevance.

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

Mr Wippy

3rd Apr 2006, 18:04

dunno if its just 1st day blues, but oh my god its slow! and how many times did I get the dreaded page cannot be displayed !!!!!!!

nice to see the MOD getting ripped off again!:mad:

Pontius Navigator

3rd Apr 2006, 21:31

Akula, sorry, you are quite right, I read that he was going to move and missed the point that he had moved.

FFP

4th Apr 2006, 06:07

Re; rates, I believe that the main AT stations are still going to issue FSI for the forseable future as capped actuals are cleary unworkable for these staions and their crews.

I think you might be getting the term FSI and Capped Actuals mixed up.

AT crews carry a Flight Sub Imprest to pay for costs incurred such as fuel (where no such contract exists) and subsistence. The method for issuing money as of 1st April is the Capped Actual way, in which you are given the same money as you were before, but now you must be able to account for it with receipts or self certify if receipts are not available.

So AT crews are on capped actuals, with the money issued from an FSI.

Regards

FFP

peppermint_jam

4th Apr 2006, 07:54

At sunny Marham we've not been issued our passwords on Sqn yet, apparently the roll out for us has been delayed by another week. Sounds like a certain South African mining company have sold us another gem.

Grimweasel

4th Apr 2006, 08:10

Units have been asked by the RAF Focal Point to stagger their issue of PW's and Log-ins so as not to deluge the RLI with traffic causing it to fold. This will be the only time in the RAF when this much traffic needs to be communicated over the network, due to evryone wanting to carry out the same transactions at the same time. Once everyone has inputed their self-service user data, the traffic should die down somewhat. Then most personnel will only log on once/twice a month?

FFP. Sorry my mistake. I asked the man in charge today about the FSI issue and it appears FSI is still issued but, like you say, If the rate was £21 for a meal then you would have to produce reciepts for the expenditure and give back any under spend! So its capped actuals from FSI. He mentioned taking advances ? but I wasn't sure what he meant so I won't confuse the issue.

pvr not dwr

4th Apr 2006, 10:22

No Passwords at Lossie yet either, I suppose the headline "JPA goes live without faults" doesnt need explaining with "first passwords due out any month now". Good news is if the pay run goes ok camps might start getting their passwords.

Only good thing about JPA is I won't have to spend my time telling PSF what their job is, as they stare mouths full of food because "they are having their dinner" as they never had time at lunch time having spent it in the gym.

Well Travelled Nav

4th Apr 2006, 12:13

Have got my JPA password and have managed to login.

However, it has proved difficult to correct the wrong information entered into my account as the server must be overwhelmed - it is exceedingly slow.

As an example, in answer to the security question "place of birth", the answer recorded is my NI number - and it won't let me change it.

If everyone could logoff whilst I update my info, and check my bank details that would be nice.

WTN

4Foxtrot

4th Apr 2006, 16:06

I'm starting to wonder if JPA is actually a denial-of-service attack by the Chinese. :}

BengOBoB

5th Apr 2006, 07:29

Sorry for misleading......I've not moved yet but am going to , as it is my first move since being married I've been told I'm not entitled to my removals being paid for but I am emtitled to DA. PSF are currently closed due to JPA and I've not been issued with my password so no idea how much DA I will get!!!:ugh:

HEDP

11th Apr 2006, 10:32

Back to the top for SirSalties benefit,

HEDP

BengOBoB

11th Apr 2006, 11:01

So the tale continues....
I am entitled to both DA and Removals, DA is now £969, trying to get anywhere with JPA is a struggle, spoke to the JPAC, best advice wat to speak to my HR Dept???? Is that the PSF that is now closed for JPA training I asked, no idea was the answer, the next question was who or what post within the HR Dept would she reccomend I spoke to, I dont know were her words of wisdom!!! Ridiculous!!:mad:

sirsaltyhelmet

11th Apr 2006, 11:06

Back to the top for SirSalties benefit,

HEDP

OOPS Sorry!!

HEDP

11th Apr 2006, 13:07

Nay problems mate, just dont know how to link the two:O

HEDP

Could be the last?

11th Apr 2006, 21:44

Don't hold your breath. We have had ours issued but the web page doesn't stay connected long enough to be of an use. Me thinks it's HOOP:mad:

Hoots

12th Apr 2006, 10:22

Well still no password, hope I (and others) can get on before any pay screw ups due to incorrect details. If its as slow as people say, whats it going to be like when the Army and Navy get on to it. Also believe that the Army are keeping all their Admin types until it has proved to work, seems like a bit of sense, unkike the RAF.

On_The_Top_Bunk

12th Apr 2006, 10:31

My JPA screen usually consists of.........

Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

SidHolding

12th Apr 2006, 16:41

I got on yesterday, hung around until after 1700 and it worked well..... However...... My "anualised" salary was a mere 10K less than it should have been (not including flying pay, I am aware that it's just basic pay "anualised"). Spoke to JPAC and HR today... awaiting response.

:eek:

Dogfish

12th Apr 2006, 17:33

Had a problem with pay so spoke to my PSF staff......who told me to contact JPAC..........who told me to contact my unit HR staff.........who told me to contact JPAC........who told me to contact my unit HR staff.......anyone for tennis??? This new sytem is f:mad:g a:mad:e :*

Hoots

13th Apr 2006, 09:11

Well got my password etc at last, and what a disappointment, now i realise what people have been talking about. Each function took around 2 minutes, it lies to you with errors etc. I tried to check personal info and pay details, after 40 minutes of frustration and nothing achieved I gave up. Then couldnt log out. Phoned JPAC, answered fairly promptly and then couldnt achieve anyting as it was stated that the server was pretty much down since 10 am, but I.T. was on the case. Im all for giving this thing a chance, but a poor start, hows this going to give people confidence in the system. Whats it going to be like when the Navy and Army come online? I would have thought it would have been prudent to prove the system before releasing it, or are we the guinea pigs. Bring back the paper office till they get this mess sorted and then try again when fit for purpose!!!

Hoots

13th Apr 2006, 09:31

couldnt agree more, 2 minutes was at best and as you say most of the time was spent watching the blue bar not move.

Safety_Helmut

13th Apr 2006, 10:01

I read yesterday that something like 13,000 had not yet (as of yesterday) got usernames and passwords. So how will it perform when we can all attempt to log on ?

S_H

Danny_Boy

13th Apr 2006, 10:39

I got sick and tired of the damn thing crashing - until yesterday when I tried to log on at 18oo. Straight in and sorted out promtly. All you shifties/midnight oil burners take note, the only way to use this white elephant at the moment is when the 0800-1700ers are at home!

Smudger552

13th Apr 2006, 10:41

So much for the fiasco of ensuring our paper docs were correct before the data was transferred. All the bits that should have been corrected are still wrong and I am 'not permitted' to change them. Mind blowingly slow if it works at all, utter rubbish..........

Almost_done

13th Apr 2006, 13:06

In most Beta testing phases of online applications (games etc) people are asked to volunteer for the trial phase and they then get some kind of recompense for their time and effort in ensuring a final polished end result.

I wonder what will ours be, a hearty thank you from the Dark Blue & Green jobs. Or possibly just the opportunity to change the incorrect details at last when the program is out of the Beta Test phase.

To quote a famous jock 'We're doomed' it seems is the rallying call at the secret helicopter base in South Oxfordshire.

Ginseng

13th Apr 2006, 14:19

Shame on you! You should regard it as a singular honour to have been specially selected for the vital national task of proving this system to its limits so that the matelots and pongos won't be able to break it.

Baaaaaaaa

Regards

Ginseng

Chox Away

13th Apr 2006, 15:17

I'm off down town to change my mother's maiden name to one which has over 8 characters.

Pontius Navigator

13th Apr 2006, 15:28

All LEAVE cancelled.

At a secret base in deepest Lincolnshire the brief is simply to log on and check pay details. At least that is one priority. The rest would appear to be a case of not rocking the boat.

Apparently the moving blue line is quite soporific.

At least MFMIS will come in on time and work straight out of the box.:}

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

13th Apr 2006, 15:55

Hi Gang;

Got into the system this afternoon after everyone else had gone home.

a). Submitted leave for Easter...been docked 2 days annual. Asked for it back on remarks!!
b). Submitted Home to Duty for March.. 31 Days..22 Journeys...NO!! Journey every day apparently and only as 1st or 2nd Passenger. No box for Driver. Submitted with Remarks about wrong status/rate/totals!!! Old form kept for proof and subsequent submission!!
c). Cannot make wifey primary contact. It won't let me. Primary contact is daughter from 1st marriage 450 miles away!!!
d). Bank details correct...well that's one thing!!!
e). Separated service totals = 71. Thought it was going to be at least 100???
f). Have to be born somewhere else..Town of Birth is less than 8 letters!!!

Entertaining 45 mins.:\ Slow but bearable when the rest of the Mob is on Grant!!!

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

PS..I almost forgot...it's all gone to my Workflow manager for approval. He's not that great with computers!!!

MostlyHarmless

13th Apr 2006, 19:20

...as it was stated that the server was pretty much down since 10 am...

I find the use of the singular there more than a little worrying...

Grimweasel

13th Apr 2006, 19:31

Fear not, there are at least 3 servers!!

J Bloke

You need to claim under the other option not 1st / 2nd passenger but the third option. (Can't remember the 3 letter abbv. as at home not on JPA!)

The LSA balance issue is being looked into...

Re eight letters simply repeat your town of birth..ie if it was Bath then your PW may be bathbath????? Its a minimum of 8 letters so be imaginative!!

Happy easter JPA'ers

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

13th Apr 2006, 19:40

Grim;

There were 3 options on the HTD thingy...just that the third (top) option was blank, then 1st Pax, 2nd Pax. It would not let me progress if I clicked on the blank. There was no option past 2nd Pax!!!:uhoh:

Got the Home town thing sorted. Bit of lateral thinking....:\

It will take a while to sort out the gremlins I suppose... I'm out soon anyway..(2015!!!)

'J' Bloke!!:rolleyes:

Nignog

13th Apr 2006, 20:19

If the pay run is happening on the 18th it would have been good to get a password so I could at least have attempted to check that my details are correct. As I'm not back at work till the 20th I guess I will just have to trust that the system works OK. Hope my bank is understanding about large overdrafts.

L1A2 discharged

13th Apr 2006, 20:26

Seems that its designed for a civilian environment where no one works weekends - they are all 'non-working' days. Bank holidays not recognised either so the wonderful new HR department will be giving every one (should be on now) 4 days additional ILA (Individual Leave Allowance or whatever) to cover Good Friday, Easter Monday and the 2 May bank holidays.

In addition absences cannot currently be put in retrospectively - no capability for having an 'emergency' day off for car / family / house etc problems and putting it in after you get back to work.

If you pay for food and go away for less than 3 days it appears that its still to be paid for ... anyone for ration packs? If I am paying for it I expect to be provided with it. :mad:

Grimweasel

13th Apr 2006, 20:34

L1a1
Your first two days of food are not paid back, only the food beyond the 2nd day of absence.
The pay slips will be available to view after the 20th of the month.
The RAF have the best infrastructre in place to deal with the roll out of JPA, so yes, we may be seen as the Guinea Pigs, but with good reason.
Give it a few months and we will be wondering what all the fuss was about, I'm sure!
Remain positive and chin-up chaps. It's a great leap forward from the days of the trenches!!!:E

ZH875

13th Apr 2006, 20:50

Give it a few months and we will be wondering what all the fuss was about, I'm sure!And I wonder how many people believe that, even Southside spouts less Boll*cks

SAR Bloke

13th Apr 2006, 21:00

It's a great leap forward from the days of the trenches!!!:E

It's the biggest leap forwards since the MOD operator was introduced.

I wish I had an idea how good JPA was. Unfortunately after failing to log on, I rang JPAC only to be told (after listening to 10 mins of marching band music-very uplifting) they couldn't log on either.

p.s. Are we going to get reimbursed for the interest that we have lost in the period we haven't been able to put claims in? I thought not.

dallas

13th Apr 2006, 21:44

As the days roll on since they flicked the switch I can't believe that even our 2-year in the post amateurs managed to overlook the fact that not everybody works Monday to Friday...but there's not much evidence they did.

So, shift workers aside they must have thought about bank holidays because even daisies get bank holidays...er, so why the aparent botch for easter, giving everyone extra days leave to fix it?

That's presuming you're not one of several people I know who has not even been given a log-in. There's only 40,000 or so of us now - can that be so difficult?

Server speed? hmmm, never tested it before we went live...

When I finally managed to log-in (because everyone else had gone home), it did a reasonable job, but with so many unanswered questions it just smacks of the amateurish, rushed, poorly thought out ideas that have become cancers to our daily operations. What the fcuk are we playing at?

Ginseng

13th Apr 2006, 21:44

Solidarity brothers (and sisters?).

I'm sure Southside will be along in a moment to tell us all how lucky we are.:p

Regards

Ginseng

dallas

13th Apr 2006, 21:48

Ginseng

Solidarity (Poland 1980) was organised.

The RAF has yet to accept it is not.

Ginseng

13th Apr 2006, 22:02

Dallas,

Come on now, none of this single-Service stuff; we are in the age of jointery, so we must all be equally disorganised!

J-Bloke,

The only answer I know to the tricky primary contact fiasco is this. Delete your current primary contact from the system in toto. Go and make a cup of tea. Come back half an hour later and enter your new primary contact. Watch the blue line for 20 minutes. Swear at the failure message, kick the computer, go and make another cup of tea. Re-enter new primary contact. Go and make a cup of tea. Re-enter old primary contact (if desired) as a normal (non-primary) contact. Watch the blue line for 20 minutes. Kick the computer. Go and make a cup of tea. Re-enter etc....... Finally, visit lavatory for 40 minutes to divest yourself of all those cups of tea. It worked for me (eventually) but my bladder is giving out under the strain and I've developed a nasty case of caffeine poisoning!

Regards

Ginseng

On_The_Top_Bunk

13th Apr 2006, 22:12

I'm just waiting for the advent of BOCS as well as JPA.

My life will be complete and I'll be able to work from home with these fine new systems. :yuk:

SRENNAPS

13th Apr 2006, 22:25

Grimwesel and Ginseng:
I am sure that you two believe in this new system. However after the fiasco of the last 10 days plaese will you accept these points:
Hardly anybody seems to be able to log on and do their business.
"Time out" has been blamed on the number of people logging on - yet apparentlty only 1 in 4 of all RAF personel have logged on. What will it be like when 40,000 RAF people log on ( and lets not talk about Army/Navy).
When you can log on, the data is incorrect and you seem to be unable to change anything. Time's out again.
When you cant change the data, you ring the help line, they cannot help you. This is because the majority of people have not been trained in JPA and in fact the 3 people that I have spoken to did not even know it was happening. (JPA launch to the RAF) - one girl i spoke to was in tears because she could not comprehend the number of phone calls she was getting about a subject she knew nothing about.
You cant put leave in. Nobody I know has successfully made a claim. If you do manange to claim an advance it is one day at a time. PIC numbers no longer exist, Last tour of duty no longer seems to exist, overseas posting lists no longer seem to exist. Any time in operational thertre before 2000 is discarded.
If we do get paid at the end of Apr it will be amazing, however how many will actually have the correct pay. I was screwed up last month because for some reason to allow JPA to work I was internally posted. Sadly this resulted in me paying for singlie food charges. I have no doubts that my pay at the end of Apr will be even more cocked up.
I, at my age can accomodate these cockups but imagine a young SAC and his wife with a young kid being messed up. Anybody tried speaking to a bank manager recently - I think it goes: " If you want help - press one", "If you want a credit card press two", "If you are in the RAF and have joined JPA - hang up - you have no hope".
Over the years I have been seriously involved with LITS. We thought that was bad, but this?..............

fat albert

13th Apr 2006, 22:27

Ah BOCS another "off the shelf" piece of fabulosity :hmm:

Most amused by the email from the head BOCS needy who had a hissy fit because we weren't all "embracing change" (or "cuddling a turd" as is more apt in the RAF these days) and lovin the BOCS. Just genius.

I'm all for well thought IT that has real benefit to the smooth running of the military. Not quite so keen however on the poorly supported, ill thought out schemes that seem to repeatedly blight our lives these days.

:zzz:

BEagle

14th Apr 2006, 06:44

I recall being told many years ago that the 3 'M' s were sacrosanct to maintain the 4th:

Meals+Mail+Money=Morale

Now you have PAYD which seems to be a rolling goat f*ck, plus 'capped actuals'....so that's 'Meals' screwed.

Mail. The invention of e-mail has stopped the RAF from porking that up.

Money. JPA....... Need one say more?

Perhaps Them in 't Box need to get back to basics? And they wonder why so many are voting with their feet......

dallas

14th Apr 2006, 08:19

Beagle

Regarding mail you're not strictly correct. Military computers, utilising Microsoft's latest 1997 technology, offer many features that cause e-mail not to reach destination, often without an error message. Address books list addresses that nobody apparently ever logs onto and fairly regular unexpected denials of service from servers/networks/drives.

Even if the system is working, a moronic system of file naming created by FoI clouds the ability to find anything and the plods' contribution - having to type 'Internet-Authorised:' in the title of every off-base e-mail - is a valuable :hmm: tool to preventing people efficiently just pressing 'send'.

JPA follows a proud history of the military screwing around with technology that seemed to work okay for everyone else.

Mr C Hinecap

14th Apr 2006, 08:24

A colleague over the corridor expended 63 minutes of his life attempting to enter a very simple travel claim and a leave pass for the Bank Holiday weekend (for we must now do that) and didn't even get to finish the transactions.
JPA is the worst introduction of a system I've ever seen - and I have seen some stinkers. If anyone else had tried to introduce something like this (anyone who accepts that ISO 9000 or QA or anything with standards exixts) they would have been told to go away and get it right.
Good idea, badly managed, badly introduced. A trait of military projects???

dallas

14th Apr 2006, 08:40

Mr C

I agree with you that JPA is a good idea, as I'm sure is BOCS, in theory. What astonishes me is the apparent lack of thought that accompanies the introduction of new systems. Simple questions go unanswered, practices we've been carrying out for decades can't be accommodated but without anyone apparently having thought out an alternative!

Surely the number of senior officers at HQs various, who allegedly 'staff' projects from rucksacks to JPA decades in advance, have had more than enough time to apply the working RAF model to JPA? And if it doesn't work, get it to work before introducing it and looking like a bunch of numpties! You could argue that JPA is indicative of our culture - senior officers giving unrealistic, budget-driven deadlines to less senior officers who are culturally discouraged to give negative feedback or non-party views.

As for embracing change, no problem, let's do it, but it's got to work!

Ginseng

14th Apr 2006, 09:26

From my previous posts, I don't think that you can accuse me of looking at this through rose-tinted spectacles. Yes, access is appallingly slow at the moment, when it can be achieved at all. I also agree with the sentiments of other users that a better phased introduction and completion of data entry before the system was released to all users would have helped the current situation. Nevertheless, on the odd occasion when you have access (about 3 am), most of the functions do work.

Not sure where you got the bit about PICs not existing any more. As a self-service manager (yes, I am one, which came as a bit of a shock!), all my guys are listed against their PICs, and those that don't have one yet are shown on a local Overborne code.

To be fair, I haven't had to try the allowances/journey/advance functions yet. That pleasure is to come. But I have booked a number of periods of leave successfuly, although with a success rate of about 1 in 3 attempts; the leave balance function has then updated successfully (this happens overnight).

I do agree that it needs to get a whole lot better to be "fit for purpose".

Regards

Ginseng

BEagle

14th Apr 2006, 09:31

dallas - actually I meant that now most people can have access to a proper Internet terminal (not something screwed around with by Plod on your work PC), at least they don't have to wait for personal letter mail to make its tortuous way to the recipient through the military post system....

Once, as a test, I put a letter to myself in the Islas Malvinas in the Sqn out tray the day I left the UK. It took 3 weeks to arrive! Even on Bennycom I could send and receive e-mail - but at a wondrous 17.6 Kbps and £1+ per minute.

Pontius Navigator

14th Apr 2006, 20:46

I have two Mil email addresses. One I don't let on about and the other one.

The other one, that everyone knows about, forwards my mail to the one others don't know about and sends a message back to the originator that I cannot be reached and the email bounced.:}

Makes for a quiet life.

Does mean I have to be careful replying.

And as far as naming and FOI? Easy. Set up a rule that diverts all emails to the Delete folder. Set Outlook to empty the delete folder when you log off.

Drag emails you actually want somewhere else. :ok:

HEDP

15th Apr 2006, 10:48

Peeps,

Having started this thread as a 'Green Job' to get a feel for what is ahead it doesn't fill me with confidence.

Tongue in cheek - Glad you Guys and Gals are doin the 'Beta Testing' but I am sure our own admin staff will further screw it up when we get our hands on it :rolleyes:

Will continue to monitor and get a feel for what is ahead, patience is a virtue, or so I am told,

HEDP

CBA_caption

17th Apr 2006, 10:55

Has anyone else out there had their P60 for the last tax year?

I get the impression that now SAMA has gone to the great Recycle Bin in the sky chances of receiving one are slim to zero. Personally, I thought it was a legal requirement to issue them. Or has that been conveniently ignored by the work experience kid in charge of this project/shambles?

Or is it just me who's been forgotten?

CBA

PPRuNeUser0211

17th Apr 2006, 11:20

CBA, I haven't got one yet either... does this mean our uniform rebate will be forgotten aswell?

thelynxeffect

17th Apr 2006, 11:57

you lot are so lucky, my pay has been screwed up by the army long before JPA ;)

nav attacking

17th Apr 2006, 18:16

Meals+Mail+Money=Morale
Mail. The invention of e-mail has stopped the RAF from porking that up.

Funny old thing Ice Station have even cocked the emails up.
Up until last week I had a fully functioning IGS Internet and E-mail account. IT Gurus decided to adopt a standardised e-mail address list, gave me (and about 1000 others)a new e-mail account without telling anybody. Of course they set up an automated reply and forward function for everybody increasing the volume of e-mail traffic in the process. However, I can't now get any e-mails or documents back to my home e-mail to work on or refer to.
Is that why moral is rock bottom at RA F**Kinloss.
Can't wait until the end of the month. Does anyone know how to use JPA to make a claim for interest payments, bank charges etc? Thats if I ever get past the "server unavailable"
Only good thing to come about from JPA was the 2 extra days leave credited to cover the bank holidays that JPA couldn't allow for. I couldn't get past the "server unavailable" so gave up before Easter. I presume we are unable to put leave on retrospectively so thank you very much for the 2 extra days. Nowhere near enough to what we all deserve for having to put up with an ill thought out and poorly executed IT system. Can't wait until the Army and Navy try to get on the system or even to try and make claims when in Iraq, that will be a challenge.
Overall a big negative :ok:

comedyjock

17th Apr 2006, 18:54

Luckily (?) we in the Navy have only changed allowances and not gone to JPA. This now means we definitely have no idea what we are entitled to and no idea how to claim anyway.

I wonder what the Investors in People scrutineers would say about the whole farce.

ChezTanker

18th Apr 2006, 06:43

Funny old thing Ice Station have even cocked the emails up.
Up until last week I had a fully functioning IGS Internet and E-mail account. IT Gurus decided to adopt a standardised e-mail address list, gave me (and about 1000 others)a new e-mail account without telling anybody. Of course they set up an automated reply and forward function for everybody increasing the volume of e-mail traffic in the process. However, I can't now get any e-mails or documents back to my home e-mail to work on or refer to.
Is that why moral is rock bottom at RA F**Kinloss.
Can't wait until the end of the month. Does anyone know how to use JPA to make a claim for interest payments, bank charges etc? Thats if I ever get past the "server unavailable"
Only good thing to come about from JPA was the 2 extra days leave credited to cover the bank holidays that JPA couldn't allow for. I couldn't get past the "server unavailable" so gave up before Easter. I presume we are unable to put leave on retrospectively so thank you very much for the 2 extra days. Nowhere near enough to what we all deserve for having to put up with an ill thought out and poorly executed IT system. Can't wait until the Army and Navy try to get on the system or even to try and make claims when in Iraq, that will be a challenge.
Overall a big negative :ok:

I thought the 2 extra days leave was to bring us into line with the new Leave Year - April thru March.

CBA_caption

18th Apr 2006, 06:49

That should have been 3 ie 33 days plus carry over (15 of course!). Apparently the system was designed in 1774 when bank holidays hadn't been invented yet.

CBA

awaiting the "Actually the first bank holiday was in 1536..." reply. You get the idea.

peppermint_jam

18th Apr 2006, 07:16

I managed to log on and check all of my details on thursday afternoon when the rest of the RAF had been stood down. All my bank details were correct and after being awkward for a good while it finally had the decency to allow me to add emergency contacts and NOK details. The system appeared to get faster as the afternoon drew on and the RAF shut down for Easter. Way I figure it is if we could come up with an air force wide Rota where only 5 people can log on at any one time, I'm sure it'll work a treat! I'd like to book 23/06/06 if it's alright with everyone else.

As for my re-engagement leave, that's gone from the system. Fortunately I had the presence on mind to get a print out from SAMA before they pulled the plug on it.

I guess the 20th of this month is judgement day.........................

Oh, and the personal best on Sqn at the moment is 3 hours to submit a leave pass! Anyone done better???

Pontius Navigator

18th Apr 2006, 07:34

Has anybody on the system been posted yet? :rolleyes:

If that works it will be a miracle.

On an older and maturer system (it crashed in January too) all my 'new' details were correctly mapped across. Where there were no 'new' details all the odl ones were left in place - line manager 3 years out of date - wrong unit - wrong phone numbers - wrong accounts codes.

Don't worry about the little teething problems with JPA. You ain't seen nothing yet. Best bit of course is that all the people capable of sorting in out are being posted. :}

Spotting Bad Guys

18th Apr 2006, 08:22

Still no BSA, no pay statement for March, no pay statement for April, no JPA password....
What's worse is that I was posted on 20 March back to the UK from an overseas tour. The upshot of that is that now, nobody knows where I am or which unit parents me! I know how it is supposed to be but try telling that to the computer.:mad:

SBG

lampeterexile

18th Apr 2006, 11:20

http://flyforums.proboards53.com/index.cgi?board=viewpoint&action=display&thread=1145351966

This is what the JPA server looks like:mad: :mad:

Farrier

18th Apr 2006, 12:04

Came into work for a 8am start . . ..

Tried logging on to JPA . . .

Now going for Lunch at 1pm [5 hours of logging on attempts later]

still not succeeded in logging on yet.

JPA:

Drive to implement - Air Force Board.
[NB Air Force Board are all aircrew]

Blue touch paper lit, now retiring to safe distance . . .

Spotting Bad Guys

18th Apr 2006, 13:43

Just been told by a reputable source that JPAC "are not talking to anyone as JPA is down"! Isn't that the time they SHOULD be taking calls?

SBG

Farrier

18th Apr 2006, 14:02

Have just got off the phone to JPAC - they are saying the server is down and there is nothing they can do at present.

IS IT ME??????

Maybe we should write the following letters . . .

Dear PSF,

Come back, all is forgiven!

Dear Air Force Board,

What were you thinking of?

airborne_artist

18th Apr 2006, 14:08

Have just got off the phone to JPAC - they are saying the server is down and there is nothing they can do at present.

So one server goes down and that's it, game over, all pay matters on hold? No mirrored servers, independant power supplies, hot-swappable etc?

Someone should get a grip, and fast. No civilian business would survive for long with this approach to IT.

Spotting Bad Guys

18th Apr 2006, 14:24

Good news at last - my BSA payment is in! Apparently there were 200 personnel who weren't paid their BSA as of this morning.....to all those - I sympathise!

SBG

Siddeous

18th Apr 2006, 14:30

Well I just found this little jewel sitting in my inbox when i arrived at work today. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence

Difficulties with JPA system performance have been ongoing for some time and are well documented. Strenuous efforts have been made to overcome these problems and considerable progress has been made however, system performance is not at a position where we can be confident it will not have an impact on key activities such as running the payroll process.

In order to ensure that the RAF payroll can be run, system access will be limited to AFPAA from 1700hrs, 18 Apr 06 . From this time all other users will be excluded from the system, including access to the Enquiry Centre (EC). This restriction will apply for 24 – 48 hours until payroll has been completed, when notification will be sent out lifting this restriction.

South Bound

18th Apr 2006, 15:07

lol - was just trying to post this and the pprune server was too busy!

Have you heard the one about users only being allowed to access JPA in the afternoon while they sort it out...?

foldingwings

18th Apr 2006, 15:10

Ironic, really, but whilst attempting to Log On to PPRuNe to add my anger to this thread (3 hours wasted this afternoon trying to claim expenses:{ ) when I receive this message from PPRuNe:

The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.

5 attempts and I'm here but now I'm going home!:)

FW

airborne_artist

18th Apr 2006, 16:18

Just as well the Noo Labour Rental Air Farce is getting smaller by the minute. By the time they've fixed JPA to cope with the current number, the RAF will be so small that one person will be able to run the entire payroll on a Sincalir Spectrum :ok:

LFFC

18th Apr 2006, 16:36

This is all a bit too familiar.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3270377.stm

"Details of the way a website carrying the 1901 census was "overwhelmed" by demand have emerged in a report from the National Audit Office.

The site had to be withdrawn five days after its launch in 2002 after visits from around 1.2 million users an hour.

The site was reopened seven months later and now caters for between 8,000 and 10,000 internet users every day."

Question. Who was the contractor that setup that website?

Answer. QinetiQ

I hope we've got our expected usage levels for JPA correct!

FJJP

18th Apr 2006, 16:38

Re: #120. Well, SPG, sounds like a good excuse to pop a letter in the post to any old unit, advising them that you intend to bu**er orf on gardening leave and to contact you when someone figures out where you are, where you are supposed to be and when!

dallas

18th Apr 2006, 17:40

I hope we've got our expected usage levels for JPA correct!

I suggest that might have been overlooked, along with things like log-ons and bank holidays...

Although...

considerable progress has been made

So maybe some people will be able to log-on during daytime in the near future!

JessTheDog

18th Apr 2006, 17:40

I am glad I got out before this debacle!

Why not temporarily return to the tried-and-tested method of paper and ink? Scribble on a memo pad "Boss, can I have some leave?" and keep the response. Lo and behold, "authorised absence" in 5 minutes or so.

Roland Pulfrew

18th Apr 2006, 18:42

JPA:

Drive to implement - Air Force Board.
[NB Air Force Board are all aircrew]

Blue touch paper lit, now retiring to safe distance . . .

Farrier. OK I'll bite! Somewhat disingenuous! Senior Responsible Officer for JPA = AMP. AMP is an...................Engineer!!

IIRC AFB actually comprises 12 members, 5 politicians, 1 civil servant and 6 RAF personnel.

Mind you I have had my password for over a week now and still have not made it TO, let alone past the login screen!!

Safety_Helmut

18th Apr 2006, 18:58

Sorry Jess, not possible. Called allowances today to ask if I can submit claim on good old paper 1771 as I have no JPA logon/passsword yet. No, was the answer, they have been told paper is dead, long live JPA. They also told me I am amongst the many hundreds in a rapidly sinking boat.

Later read that JPA is closing from 1700 tonight to all but the HR people (shineys) for 24 to 48 hours so that they can sort the payroll as they think the system won't be able to cope otherwise.

I would like to have a small wager that those responsible for this mess, not the ones managing it now, but the ones who have already moved on, will already have been commended/promoted for their sterling work. W@nkers !

S_H

Grimweasel

18th Apr 2006, 19:13

Safety....
Not strictly true as paper forms do still exist. For expenses , I believe it is JPA Form 016 that you submit to your HR Admin, then they will consolidate all the Unit claims onto a JPA Form 016A and send it to the JPAC EC for entry onto JPA and subsequent payment.
All JPA Paper forms are available on the AFPAA Info Centre, under documentation. You can print them off and have your own secret cache!! :ok:

SpotterFC

18th Apr 2006, 19:15

No civilian business would survive for long with this approach to IT

Nope - and they wouldn't have "big-banged" it either, not for a mission-critical system like this (and before anyone thinks this isn't mission critical, where is morale going to go if they don't rescue this farce shortly (ie if we don't get paid)? Then again - can it go lower?)

This should have been live trialled for at least 2 months, which is a pain in the butt running 2 systems side-by-side but at least proves that it works properly instead of just doing a flashy demonstration to an IPT which probably hasn't got a clue what it's looking at anyway. Personally I had no doubt it would be a farce when I was doing the training - one of the bits of the emergency contact form (most of you won't have got that far yet!!!) asks "Is this contact your NOK?". A yes or no answer indicated by a tick or check box or something you would have thought? Nope - you have to click the little torch icon, type a * in the search box and then select the answer from the presented lsit which is either a ......... YES OR NO! Some bl**dy poorly trained techno geek showing off by using all the HCI tools at his disposal whether its appropriate or not. I had a vain hope that this was just a developmental software glitch which would be picked up by a moderately skilled tester, but no, silly me I thought they'd actually user test the software - how naive. And if you think that's a tiny little issue - wait until you get to try to fill in your posting preferences - it will take you all day just to trawl through the multiple screens full of options. I gave up after going through 5 screens and I hadn't even hit a RAF posting yet (Army comes before RAF in the alphabet - geddit?).:rolleyes:

The HCI on this project is pants. Poorly designed, user unfriendly and, as usual, we haven't invested in sufficient network bandwidth to cope with the demand.:*

Think yourselves lucky if you have never managed to log on yet - your nightmares have not yet started.:(

Safety_Helmut

18th Apr 2006, 19:15

Cheers GW i'll take a look at that.

S_H

nav attacking

18th Apr 2006, 19:39

Has anybody sat and considered the flight safety implications of such a poor system.
In days gone by the whole idea of Admin Wing and Sqn Execs was to deflect the S*!t and make the whole process of flying an aircraft, whether that be training peacetime or in delivering a weapon in war time a lot simpler without the burden of taking frustrations airborne.
I would take my hat off to the first person who refuses to get airborne due to the stresses of either:

Trying to logon
Changing Password
Altering Next of Kin Details
Checking Posting Preferences
Submitting Travel Claim
Requesting Annual Leave

All that with the possibility that nobody will actually get paid on time this month and the bank manager, building societies and councils will all be demanding a reason why their standing orders and direct debits weren't honoured.
God help those who are trying to get onto JPA from overseas and are actually still doing a job out in Iraq or Afghanistan. Mind you JPA probably doesn't even know where they are anyway!
You never know maybe our lords and masters will give us all extra time away from duties just to cover the time wasted trying to logon etc. The productivity level of the RAF (to use bull management speak), not that we produce any tangible product, must have gone down by at least 50%.

Climebear

18th Apr 2006, 20:02

In days gone by the whole idea of Admin Wing and Sqn Execs was to deflect the S*!t and make the whole process of flying an aircraft, whether that be training peacetime or in delivering a weapon in war time a lot simpler without the burden of taking frustrations airborne.

That will be why many people who use this forum have been calling for the RAF to get rid of the blunties, REMFs, etc. Well people listened, the numbers of clerks have been significantly reduced and Admin Wgs are a dying bread on STC stns. And in their place arises JPA! Oh (alongside other reductions such as E2E) and fewer people to do all the ****ty jobs that know one wants to do full time.

As for 'tangible product' I would suggest that the number of troops moved to/from/within operational theatres, and number of bad guys coerced/attrited by the delivery of air power (kinetic or otherwise) within those same operational theatres is fairly tangible - and linked to tangible improvements in those theatres that the media choose to ignore because good news doesn't sell.

nav attacking

18th Apr 2006, 20:17

Almost_done

18th Apr 2006, 20:32

Climebear
You are so right.
However, my point is how long will it be before the first Incident Report reflects the fact the pilot was so distracted by the lack of pay that he/she failed to see the light aircraft, or was so frustrated pre-flight that he/she missed the fact that the already stretched groundcrew (also frustrated by the fact that their pay had not gone into their bank account) missed something off the turn around checks causing failure of a critical component?

I can't agree more, we have guys living to the line here, married with offspring and they are almost into the poverty belt in deepest darkest south oxfordshire.

Pity them when the pay system lets them down, creditors at their doors faster than a beagle after a fox. Where will their minds be at work, on the job or worrying about the money situation and the strife at home?

Beta Testers unite and keep on phoning our Lords and Masters (via the JPAC) to let them know what we think of this system.

The last 30 months can't come soon enough tbh.

FJJP

18th Apr 2006, 20:57

Flight Safety - wasn't there a Jag film once about admin distractions?

I'd love to see the spec for this server system. Anyone got it?

SirToppamHat

18th Apr 2006, 21:06

Almost_done

19th Apr 2006, 07:11

Given the media furore surrounding the attempted/failed introduction of most Govt IT projects, the subject has been surprisingly conspicuous by its absence from the TV and radio (or have I just missed it?).:mad:
STH

The media seem to have other stories to fill the column inches with. Such as the NHS and the non-political party broadcasts.

South Bound

19th Apr 2006, 10:32

Interesting that the JPA gods should choose to limit access time to try and sort the problems out. Does anyone think that will work. We will have the same number of users trying to complete JPA tasks in a small window, meaning that availability will be approaching nil (based on performance to date). If the whole thing is really that shakey, why don't they just switch off any access until they get it sorted. Of course, we could then resort to the business continuity fallbacks all of our Units have in place for just this eventuality....:bored:

Just seems pointless giving us access if we will not be able to log on/do anything meaningful because the servers are so slow. Best let the shineys get on with sorting it out...

airborne_artist

19th Apr 2006, 11:30

The media seem to have other stories to fill the column inches with.

Still, it's good to know that Govt hasn't lost it's knack of c@cking up IT projects. The RAF has about 40,000 people to track. God help us when the national ID card project goes live, and people do stupid things like moving house or getting married.

sluf goat

19th Apr 2006, 11:32

Believe spec for sever was 10 x 386 machines [linked] , had at a bargain price, wonder why? or was it 15 machines?

stuckinLatinAmerica

19th Apr 2006, 16:53

Wow, certainly looks like the new 'son of SAMA' system is a real hit with all the folks back home in Blighty! As I am working in Latin America for the next 2½ years, hopefully it all will be sorted out by the time I return - but then again, maybe not. :confused:

Hang on a minute, with no JPA terminal within 9,000 miles of this place - and no plans to introduce one neither - perhaps I'd better get myself back to the UK sharpish to register somewhere. :sad: Alternatively, I can just imagine the scene at home when I tell the wife that I'm not getting paid until the new all-encompassing computer system recognises me! I'm sure I can count on my army boss to keep me in 'readies', as his hierarchy wisely pulled out of converting all of their pay and admin to JPA for another 12 months.:ok:

Now then, where did I put that redundancy application........

Blunt17

19th Apr 2006, 18:23

The productivity level of the RAF (to use bull management speak), not that we produce any tangible product, must have gone down by at least 50%.

And some parts of it have been reduced to nil. At a secret admin hideoute in SW England, the old IT was turned off on 6 Mar. Its now 19 Apr and we still haven't been able to resume activity. That JPA egg-timer is begining to get on my nerves...:sad:...:{

escapee

19th Apr 2006, 18:27

Private Eye predicted problems with JPA when it was announced that the project would be run by EDS.

By the way Almost Done Beagles hunt hares Fox hounds hunt foxes:)

Almost_done

19th Apr 2006, 19:45

Private Eye predicted problems with JPA when it was announced that the project would be run by EDS.
By the way Almost Done Beagles hunt hares Fox hounds hunt foxes:)

Ah the joys of posting while under the influence of ignorance:}

ootthemobintime

19th Apr 2006, 19:47

Having just left under the last tranche of redundancies, it heartens me to know I left just in time to avoid what I knew was coming. Having been a shiney for 19 years and moving from tried and tested paper and ink to exactly the same problems when SAMA came online that we, ne you have now.

Part of the reason I left to do real HR was that the Govt procurement process is the difining reason why every IT system and indeed every system is flawed and out of date at the moment they "flick the switch".

SAMA, SEMA, CHoTs (door stopper), EMIS, TAFMIS to name a few.

Just one thing bothers me and that is I hope my redundancy package is sorted and paid into my account as now i'm out, i won't get a username and password to check my details are correct.

JessTheDog

20th Apr 2006, 06:17

Write to your MPs. It is a constitutional right, and correspondence should be confidential (it has always been in my experience). Ask them to ask a question during defence questions or PM's questions. Suggest some appropriate wording as a guide!

highcirrus

20th Apr 2006, 07:14

Actually, Jess, another constitutional right which the individual has, is to request a meeting with his or her Member of Parliament, at the House of Commons (be aware that MP's are elected representatives/servants of the electorate and that there is an absolute right of access). I have made such requests in the distant past, have always received very courteous replies and have invariably been granted meetings at the Commons, the tone of which has usually been most genial.

Whilst you will not change the world at a stroke, your MP will inevitably be affected in some way by what is said face-to-face, even if only to a limited degree, but he or she will certainly be affected by the fact of your getting off your backside and taking the trouble to personally and trenchantly enunciate your view on a subject of some considerable importance (such as JPA). A letter to an MP can easily be filed and forgotten, after a minion has sent out a two line BS reply.

If enough service voters take this course of action and it is picked up by the press, a national scandal may result (heaven forbid) and unfavourable comparisons made between the superb handling of the commercial sector’s vast IT projects (think high street banks, building societies etc) and the pathetically slipshod, incompetent handling of similar government projects.

Remember also that a very large number of “New Labour” MP’s are no longer in thrall to Bliar and his coterie and would be absolutely delighted to make trouble for the slippery little ba****d through the device of an Early Day Motion, which would firmly put the cat amongst the pigeons.

It’s called democracy in action.

Address and MP contacts here (http://www.parliament.uk/useful/address.cfm)

TheBeeKeeper

20th Apr 2006, 12:50

Just spoke to my Desk Officer.... posted at last. 'Just logon to JPA and goto the workflow....' 'Erm, Sir, can't logon to JPA at the moment, in fact, having spoken to Mil Admin, I'll be lucky if I can logon tomorrow'

'Trust me TBK you are posted'.......'arrrrrggggghhhhh, I hate it when the desky says trust me'

When I could logon to JPA, they had halved my service and given me only 11 days accumlated seprated service instead of near 300!

Happy days

TBK

Chox Away

20th Apr 2006, 13:11

Quote from the JPA gurus:

The operating plan for JPA will be as follows:

20 Apr 06 – there will be no Self-service User access. Professional Users may continue to use the system.

21 Apr 06 – the staggered entry plan that was conducted today will be repeated tomorrow. That is, the following Professional Users may gain access from the following times:

0700 Career Manager
0730 Unit HR Admin
0800 JPAC EC
0830 Arrivals Clk
0900 Family Accommodation
0930 Single Accommodation
1000 Terminations
1030 JPA Expenses

Self Service Users will be notified when they may access the system. This will be done from the Operations Room via unit Chf Clks.

These access restrictions are to allow essential system performance testing to continue.

end quote

System Performance Testing !!!

Bit late in the day to be testing don't you think?

dallas

20th Apr 2006, 13:49

Maybe, over time, we could set up a whole department of individuals to operate JPA. They could work Mon-Fri 8-5 with Wednesday afternoons for sport. People who still could not log-on to JPA could go and visit this department, seeing a member of staff responsible for their surname.

We could call it...Personnel Flight Services or PFS for short...

Fcuk me - if I haven't just found a wheel to reinvent...

GreenWings

20th Apr 2006, 15:56

ootthemobintime

20th Apr 2006, 17:16

Choxaway---

Why are you e-mailing from just off the coast of Accra?

SpotterFC

20th Apr 2006, 17:49

BUT...

At least the pay run worked!! I do however feel they're a little premature standing down the old systems just yet. After all, the money hasn't actually hit our banks has it.

On another note entirely. Has anybody else noticed that the logo at the top of the bulletin screens on the JPA-online noticeboard application looks like a bent and broken drawing pin - sums up the entire JPA experience!

I note HP have also claimed that it ain't their hardware so it must be the ORACLE software. Reading past the spin, could this actually mean HP have confirmed that the hardware they have supplied is running to spec - we just didn't buy enough (or powerful enough) hardware to run this processing intensive application:* . I also note they did their testing when NO SELF-SERVICE or HR PEOPLE WERE ALLOWED TO LOG IN!!! Great testing strategy - do it when the load is at its lowest and you'll look really good when the IPT people come to see how its going.:E

Standby for the next exciting service bulletin tomorrow when ORACLE say it ain't their software so it must be the users/hardware/phase of the moon.

SirToppamHat

20th Apr 2006, 19:46

Hi Spotter

Nearly right old chap, you forgot to include the network people whose fault it also won't be, the PC providers, whose fault it won't be (all purchased to DII spec! From the DGICS Catalogue so it must be compliant and it only cost 3-times more than at PC World!). The idea of a couple of networks (one light one dark) off which we hang all systems is all very well, but it simply allows one bunch of unqualified individuals to blame another bunch of unqualified people who aren't part of the same organisation/contract so have nothing to gain.

Naiively, I was somewhat surprised to find that one chap who came to fix a Dark-side PC at my work had never even seen one before. In fact, he'd come straight from another 'managed service' job in one of the Newcastle Job Centres. He couldn't get the box open until I showed him how! Left two hours later scratching his head and muttering about the fibres/NICs/IPs/BIDs/Routers being the wrong for the system. What was actually needed was the details of the WINSERVER to be typed into the thing so it knew where to look when it was switched on. Did it myself in the end. Nice one Fu***su, thanks for managing our service for us.

Sorry about all that. Got a bit carried away. It's the frustration of not being able to log-on to JPA. I have asked OC Personal Admin Support Flight Sqn what the Stn Business Continuity Plan Says about all this.

STH

SirToppamHat

20th Apr 2006, 19:51

Sorry again for my last rant.

I know there's lots of comment on here about the problems we are experiencing at the moment, but has anyone actually had to stop doing something, cancel a det, change plans or whatever because of JPA? In my ops world we are used to pragmatism, so used paper forms to record leave over Easter etc etc, and and I guess we'll continue to do so.

Has anyone started collecting data about the actual impact of this debacle?

STH

L J R

20th Apr 2006, 20:32

I personally am keeping a running log of my attempts and failure or otherwise (a little anal of me yes), but when the total time waste gets to longer than 24 hours, I intend to formally raise it. So far It is 1:10 against JPA being successful from the times I commenced entering my user and PW. Recommend others do similar (noting actual time etc...). At this rate I should have wasted 24 Hours within 2 months. During the same time I will have at least corrected the name of my NOK.

JTIDS

20th Apr 2006, 23:01

Anybody actually got an expense claim out of it yet?

Chox Away

21st Apr 2006, 08:30

ootthemob

At least someone took the trouble to look - thankyou. Ar$e n elbow comes to mind.

Good job I don't buy knickers from C&A eh?

Farrier

21st Apr 2006, 09:33

Farrier. OK I'll bite! Somewhat disingenuous! Senior Responsible Officer for JPA = AMP. AMP is an...................Engineer!!

IIRC AFB actually comprises 12 members, 5 politicians, 1 civil servant and 6 RAF personnel.

Mind you I have had my password for over a week now and still have not made it TO, let alone past the login screen!!

Ok done a little homework on this one now:

CURRENT AMP is an Engineer . . .

AMP who instigated JPA WAS aircrew . . .Monsieur Francais - Helicopter mate.

:ok:

SubdiFuge

21st Apr 2006, 09:45

Farrier - 0/10 and no gold star.

AMP did not instigate JPA. The decision to implement will have been made by the pol staffs in town.

South Bound

21st Apr 2006, 10:05

Interesting that the JPA status page shows performance as Amber...

"Intermittent problems or slow response"

..while telling you that there is still no availability for self-service users.

Smacks of Alastair Campbell to me - 'I can confirm that the 1 user permitted access to JPA finds it a joy to use...'

Wyler

21st Apr 2006, 10:33

We have just been told to forget it TFN. Too many snags, only log in between 1200 and 1700, help lines useless because they rely on access to sort the problems, don't bother trying to change personal details etc etc.
All this from our newly formed 'Human Resources Dept'. Oh yes, and they say these problems were completely unexpected!

Northern Circuit

21st Apr 2006, 10:46

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8274/jpa6bd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Northern Circuit

21st Apr 2006, 10:50

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4255/jpa114yn.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jpa114yn.jpg)

SpotterFC

21st Apr 2006, 15:10

H'mm - just found this pearl:

http://www.eds.com/services/casestudies/downloads/afpaa.pdf

EDS is taking a measured, evolutionary approach. This will help AFPAA meet its prime objective of maintaining existing service levels with minimal disruption as the new solution is phased in.

Uh huh. EDS will give us a system that lets some people log on today and some more tomorrow - measured. Today you can log on, and tomorrow you might actually be able to access some useful apps, like put in leave (couldn't do that today, despite trying about 20 times) or look at my pay slip (ditto) - evolutionary.

I suppose they are meeting existing service levels - only its not because the clerks are off on a tea break or 'having a fag', or PSF is closed for 50% of the time so that the poor overworked souls can catch up on paperwork, its because EDS couldn't take a working application from Oracle, match it to working hardware form HP and actually make a distributed database work!

White Noise

21st Apr 2006, 18:24

Well thanks to JPA my LSAP paperwork was delayed and now i won't be completing on my new house before I move out onto the streets with an 8 month preganant partner !!

Yeller_Gait

21st Apr 2006, 19:10

I have managed to successfully submit a claim on JPA this week. Is this a first for the RAF ?

Obviously I have not actually had any money paid into my bank account yet, and as JPA was down this afternoon (self-service users between 12-1700?) I was not able to check the status of my claim, so that will have to wait till Monday.

I live in hope and await Monday morning with interest.

Y_G

SirToppamHat

21st Apr 2006, 19:33

We weren't allowed to use it today (so not at all yet). Apparently we will be told on Monday if we can access it.

:mad:

Pontius Navigator

21st Apr 2006, 19:39

In the modern jargon I think we can declare JPA a defered success.:\

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

21st Apr 2006, 20:14

Hi Gang;

Tried again today...in the 12-1700 self-user window...

Result...SNAFU
Thumping the monitor a couple of times didn't help either!!!

B*ggered up HTD travel claim still pending I assume...no Plods at the door yet!!!

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

AdanaKebab

21st Apr 2006, 23:02

Does anyone know if the rumour is true that several units have pulled out of trying to get JPA going and are back on the old system.
My sources tell me Honington has done this.
Or maybe it's just because the Regt can't use computers yet...:ouch: ouch

Pie Man

22nd Apr 2006, 07:44

I have received an expenses payment via JPA, is this a first? It was for only £7.34; it did take nearly 2 hours to input the claim and 12 days to get to my account - not quite the advertised timesaving and speed.

PM

ScapegoatisaSolution

22nd Apr 2006, 07:56

The flood gates have opened...I also got a payment but this was for £61. Is this a record?

HEDP

22nd Apr 2006, 09:13

No mate,

Thats probably your monthly wage, :}

HEDP

fat albert

22nd Apr 2006, 10:14

Not sure about units going back to the "old system". SAMA was switched off and can't be switched back on again because the contract for it expired recently hence the great rush to force JPA into action.

Dogfish

22nd Apr 2006, 11:33

LITS was a load of crap, lean is a load of crap, JPA is a load of crap.......anyone else see a pattern emerging here. If the RAF was a commercial company the CEO would have been hung up by his nuts. Will anyone at the top be brought to book over this fiasco? Somehow I doubt it.

Nignog

22nd Apr 2006, 12:43

Congratulations on getting claims paid. I'm still waiting for a logon password!!

oldfella

22nd Apr 2006, 20:05

Since JPA I've had 3 nights away in different hotels, 3 nights away in Messes, 2 lots of leave overfa couple of days and the Easter break with a working public holiday - still waiting for JPA password! At least I've been able to put all expenses on a company credit card and just keep a record of things so I'm not out of pocket yet.

SAR Bloke

22nd Apr 2006, 20:46

Does anyone know if the rumour is true that several units have pulled out of trying to get JPA going and are back on the old system.

I had heard that the pay run went through from SAMA as JPA still could not handle it. Last time I checked JPA, my pay statement was not shown (which would back this up) but I may have checked too early.

SirPercyWare-Armitag

22nd Apr 2006, 20:52

AdanaKebab

22nd Apr 2006, 21:07

Going on det shortly ... Does anyone know if JPA has been installed on computers across the world at the various locations of the RAF's many detachments?
Or shall I telephone my boss from overseas to get him to input my backlog of claims.
He can wipe my a*se for a change! :E

Almost_done

22nd Apr 2006, 22:29

Well I just happened to be reading a geek mag when I came across this article (http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2001/12/20/184436/Government'sGateZerotostopITprojectsfailing.htm) . Nice to see the Gov is trying to save money, could this be over failing to pay us our wages?

Made me look just a little further (http://www.publictechnology.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1944&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0).

As you say John 11:35 over everything this Gov has handled in IT.

LFFC

23rd Apr 2006, 00:41

I hereby announce my withdrawal from JPA with immediate effect. Henceforth all my expenditure will be conducted with with my corporate credit card and I no longer acknowledge the requirement to account for leave. I shall take leave as I see fit.
For "empowerment of the individual" read "abdication of responsibility" by the hierarchy
Be Pleased to inform Her Majesty that the White Flag flies over JPA God Save the Queen
Beware of your "corporate credit card". It might just be a charge card that requires payment in full by the end of the month. If it's not paid, and it had your name on the card (which it probably has), then it's you that will end up on the credit blacklist!

:ooh:

BEagle

23rd Apr 2006, 06:48

Correctamundo! One of the co-pilots on the VC10K force in its early days received a snottygram from Amex saying something of that order. I advised him to insist that OC Accounts sort it out with Amex -and that they must send him a letter confirming that he was absolved from any personal blame, the matter was entirly between his employer (RAF) and Amex. He eventually received such a letter.

RAF bill settling is notoriously slow and has led to all sorts of down-route problems in the past - such as catering companies refusing to supply the RAF due to previous instances of late payment.

stickmonkeytamer

23rd Apr 2006, 09:45

Phoned JPA on Friday as it was not working to enquire what was going on. I was told that, with a new server they are using, if more than 80 people log on at once then it crashes. I said that there would not be 80 people on the base using it on a Friday afternoon. Her reply was "80 people, country wide"!!!!! Maybe we should get tickets like at the Deli in M&S????

SAR Bloke

23rd Apr 2006, 10:23

What I want to know is when the decision makers are going to realise that the system is unworkable?

Personally, I think the JPA idea is good, but the system had been rushed in, in the full knowledge that it does not work. It was supposed to have been altered to work for the military but it is not even close. As a manager I have almost lost control of my personnel's leave (there is a pile of 100's of leave passes in the office that cannot be processed) and from a personal point of view I am owed loads of money that I can't claim back.

How long are we going to put up with this? I am told the current ability to access the system will last months. I dread to think what state we will be in should that be true. My patience is starting to wear thin now and I am seriously thinking of not spending ANY more of my own money that would normally result in a claim being submitted.

dallas

23rd Apr 2006, 11:30

Notwithstanding the technical difficulties that have occured introducing such a large project requiring everyone to have access, the lack of apparent thought about how we will use the system - or at best lack of dissemination of this info - is amateurish and very embarrassing.

But you can't blame technology or consultants for people not having passwords nearly a month from switchover. There are less than 50,000 of us and the admin people know where we all are (or did!). The simple password issue is a far better indicator of the level of negligence we're dealing with.

The best thing to come from this would be a major investigation into both our procurement and contracts policies as well as totally reviewing how our 2-year-in-post staff manage projects. Could this abortion prompt us to reconsider labelling dissenters as constructive critics, versus promoting poodles who are afraid to grasp the occasional nettle and say it can't yet be done?

Adding to my trademarked 'Change Fatigue (tm)' I'm going to add 'Poodle Culture' to my personal dictionary of RAF related idioms.

Mr Wippy

23rd Apr 2006, 11:36

So. does anyone know if we will actually get paid for April?

Im sure my bank manager will understand if can't pay my mortgage.:mad:

It took me 30mins today to get past the login screen.

God knows how many countless leave passes I have waiting for me. (saying that they wont be able to get on either!)

Well done MOD, you sure know how to look after your Armed Forces.

cnuts.

Overtorque

23rd Apr 2006, 12:21

Bugger. Thought I'd be clever and nip into work on a Sunday afternoon to try and put my claims from an overseas trip on JPA (before credit card bill comes in), only to find out that they've barred Self-Service Users access from 0700-1900 all weekend.

Can't log on during the week because the system is overloaded. Can't log on at the weekend. Great.

High_Expect

23rd Apr 2006, 12:28

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the number of people technically AWOL as of this moment in time.
I'm guessing > 500

Great time to be a holding ... You could totally disappear! :ok:

PS. Overtorque - Seeing as the RAF couldn't tell if you were in work Monday-Friday at the moment. Why the hell are you in on a Sunday?!? :ugh:

Overtorque

23rd Apr 2006, 12:37

I knew someone was going to call me sad!

My excuse is - live on the patch, and wanted my MONEY paid back! Already out of pocket because I appear to want to eat/drink more than $52 a day; and would have got thrown out of restaurants in the States for only tipping 10%.

Still, I guess now is the time to take lots of leave, seeing as I can't access JPA, and aren't allowed to submit leave retrospectively!

SAR Bloke

23rd Apr 2006, 13:03

The system is a tested 'off the shelf' system with minor modifications. That is why we no longer have leave, posting or PVR (they are now absence, assignment and termination).

That is one of the problems, it needs MAJOR modifications to fit in with the previous way of doing things. I guess this would not be a major problem in itself, we are all used to change and I'm sure we'd get used to it. The trouble is, we can't get used to it because the infrastructure appears to be controlled by a ZX81 server and nobody can use it (at least my ZX81 could run 'chucky egg' - I'd like to see the JPA server try that).

plans123

23rd Apr 2006, 13:22

I can't wait for the next round of AOC and PMA visits to units - Its going to be a scream..........:E

I have a sneaky suspicion though that they will refuse to answer any questions on JPA because:

a - the server is down
b - Its outside your designated user hours
c - They've been told nothing is wrong with JPA, the problem lies with the person trying to use it. :yuk:

Strange that nothing has appeared in the press yet, I'm sure the Current Bun would have a field day with this one......only a matter of time though I suspect. :uhoh:

Hot Charlie

23rd Apr 2006, 15:04

Ah well, as we'd had the nice email saying self service clients could use the system 1200-1700 daily, I thought late Sunday afternoon may be a good time to try...

Logged on, no options available. Went to Pay and Personnel intranet page, only to find the system down for payroll business... Thought they'd sorted that last week?:eek: :uhoh: :hmm:

Ah well, roll on Friday...:O

seafuryfan

23rd Apr 2006, 20:07

I wonder if RAF News will actually run an article on the failure of JPA on its introduction?

Hmmm. We're more likely to see the headline 'Introduction of JPA Heralds New Era For RAF Personnel' with accompanying upbeat article.

Chox Away

24th Apr 2006, 11:16

..........and now I've been told that the UIN is preformatted and you cannot manually over-ride it. It you claim through a different UIN then you will need to print out the relevant JPA paperwork each time you claim, fill in the necessary details, attach the receipts etc and post it off to HR. Would it be too much to hope that with all these ‘improvements’ in modern technology, I would eventually get my receipts back in one piece?

Mr C Hinecap

24th Apr 2006, 11:31

I thought to myself:

"Here I am - having an 'al desko' lunch - I'll multi-task and head on over to JPA and try to sort out one or two things"

Nope.

Current access to JPA is as per the Business Continuity Plan.
Professional Users may access the system 0700-1200.
Self-Service Employees will be enabled at 1230.
i-Expenses will be enabled at 1330.
Self-Service Managers will be enabled at 1400.

Self-Service Users are not to attempt to log on at the present time.

There is a cake and @rse party going on! :bored:

Climebear

24th Apr 2006, 12:49

I can't wait for the next round of AOC and PMA visits to units - Its going to be a scream..........:E

Why PMA visits. PMA have nothing to do with JPA - they are simply users of the system like you and me. They no doubt share our frustrations. This system has been introduced by, and is the responsibility of, AFPAA.

Hydraulic Palm Tree

24th Apr 2006, 13:08

Managed to log on at 1245 and check payslip for Apr. No sign of any flying pay on the payslip so called JPAC to be told that they would have to refer to back room staff as they couldn't see my payslip. I don't think I will be the only one who doesn't get flying pay this month.

HPT

BootFlap

24th Apr 2006, 13:19

HPT,

same with me! I think this may impact all of us. Have tried to get onto JPA to use the iSupport forms (as phone calls or other emails are not accepted) but the system is down again!!!!!!!!!

BootFlap

On_The_Top_Bunk

24th Apr 2006, 13:19

JPA itself is a modern, Commercial off the Shelf (COTS) self-service system which will modernize the way the Services conduct their personnel administration. Being a COTS product ensures that the most up to date practises are used and that the application is upgraded regularly in order to reflect statutory changes in legislation.
I wonder if anyone is accoutable through this legislation?

Lionel Lion

24th Apr 2006, 13:22

Mr Thickie question (OOA) - do we still receive a hardcopy payslip and P60?

On_The_Top_Bunk

24th Apr 2006, 13:27

http://www.office-humour.co.uk/includes/images/items/2005/08/3333.jpg
JPA Helpdesk in full flow :)

Nibbled2DeathByDucks

24th Apr 2006, 13:27

Mr Thickie question (OOA) - do we still receive a hardcopy payslip and P60?

Yes - legal requirement.

Just managed to check (and printout) my pay statement before the system crashed again. Flying pay is there, but not substitution pay.

Anyone out there with a correct pay statement?

Mr Rotorvator

24th Apr 2006, 13:37

'JPA Status RED' and 'page cannot be displayed' are not assuaging my concerns regarding flying pay...:bored:

CBA_caption

24th Apr 2006, 17:18

No flying pay for me either! Sent in 'Service request' (yes I managed to stay logged on for that long) and enquired also about what they are going to do about the loss of interest if the money doesn't get to my account pronto.

Hopes: 2.

CBA

SidHolding

24th Apr 2006, 17:31

Many people I know didn't get their flying pay (myself included). I received an email from WO PSF explaining that they're aware and we should have it by the end of the week.

Sid.

PS: My basic was wrong and I had some random deductions :confused:

Mr Wippy

24th Apr 2006, 17:34

Has anyone else noticed a 0.45p Charity Donation?
who is this going to? who said i wanted to donate?

when can I expect it back????

FJJP

24th Apr 2006, 17:34

CBA - fat chance.

I don't doubt that the software is 'off the shelf' and fit for original purpose. However, the military procurement depts have a history of screwing around with off the shelf to 'customise' to their perception of our requirements [without, of course, consulting the end users].

I really do wish all of you the best of luck with this system [the latest national IT scandal, with many more to come - God, I wish I was an IT consultant! Money for old rope and no accountability if you screw up!].

Hydraulic Palm Tree

24th Apr 2006, 17:42

I was out of the office today and was unable to log on to submit a Service Request about my lack of FP.

Additionally, I had a public Debt Recovery of £338 (haven't got a clue what its for!), as well as a Transition Family Charge refund of £174. I guess the latter is to make the SFA charges divisible by 12 more easily?

The £0.45 is for the Benevolent Fund I think.

Anybody got a clue what the Service Days Pay Giving is for?

I will email them tomorrow, but with a 3 month det coming up in 3 weeks time, if my pay ain't sorted I won't be going.

HPT

Lionel Lion

24th Apr 2006, 17:42

Although it seems that I now don't get my pay statement through the post but have to 'go online' for it (sorry, bit of a traditionalist), I'm also interested if this thing can work out my annual increment + flying pay + pay rise and divide by 12. Should be interesting to see how accurate it is!
Also being OOA, if the cash doesn't bank on the 30th my mortgage company will be very happy......not.
Thankfully I'm glad we've got our OOA JPA terminal for me to check.........doh no we haven't.
Biggest c0ck up since Kate Moss asked me to bed. :*

Hydraulic Palm Tree

24th Apr 2006, 17:45

LL

I have the same concerns about the system keeping track of increments, promotions, SFA changes and the like and to be honest, as the payslip just shows totals which are not marked with so many days at that rate and so many at this rate etc, I guess we'll never really know if our pay is correct.

Lowkey

24th Apr 2006, 17:51

No Flying pay as well. OC PMS has told us that we will be unit paid and that all charges incurred and interest no received will be refunded to us. I am waiting for this in writing!!

Is everyone on det aware of these problems. Everyone publish this as far and as wide as possible.

CBA_caption

24th Apr 2006, 17:59

FJJP,

I know, I know, but I had to ask if only to see what obscure AP/JSP they quote when the tell me to sod off!

CBA

Anyone else who's interested,

No idea what Transition Family Charge is, but if they're giving money away I want some. Apparently there is an area on the payslip that tells you when rates/pay scales change. If its empty - no change.

I was under the impression that Service Days pay is LSA and stuff (albeit not broken down).

The statement appears on line and is also posted to you, but not to your home just to your work address. So, even though they get sent out 2nd class post by JPAC (ie no extra expense) they will not send them to your home address. I do not call that progress.

For what its worth my basic was correct. Here endeth the sum total of my JPA pay knowledge. Minus some random deductions you will never find out about and some allowances that are probably wrong!

CBA

ZH875

24th Apr 2006, 18:04

I can't wait for the Monty Python sketch about the RAF introducing JPA, No-one would believe it!!

Hydraulic Palm Tree

24th Apr 2006, 18:11

CBA Caption

Ref Service Days Pay Giving - can't be right as they have deducted money rather than giving to me?

HPT

SpotterFC

24th Apr 2006, 18:15

And to top it all off, just to keep the end-user on-side...

AFPAA have decided in their infinite wisdom to not post daily sitreps on the farce that is JPA - oh no - they're only going to post weekly summaries. Telling us what's going on as it happens? - that would let people know that they haven't got a scooby what's gone wrong.

So, it's only Monday and despite Self-Service users supposedly having access from 1230, by 1330 the Server appears to have crashed and the system went RED and AFPAA don't want to give information out - medals for the guilty have already been issued and the hunt for the innocent is on! Wonder what other excuse (read "processor intensive task like the Payroll") they can find to stop Self-Service logging on and not look like the bunch of incompetents they seem to be?

Scribbly Bloke

24th Apr 2006, 18:29

Gentlemen (and Ladies too),

When you get a minute have a look at the Brampton/Wyton/Henlow intranet site and click on the JPA icon. They have an excellent site, with up to date info on it. Worth a look.

CBA_caption

24th Apr 2006, 19:05

HPT,

Stabbing in dark now. Benevolent fund?

CBA

Almost_done

24th Apr 2006, 19:17

Safety_Helmut

24th Apr 2006, 19:33

Shouldn't we be adding those responsible to http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221444 ??:)

Hydraulic Palm Tree

24th Apr 2006, 19:48

CBA - The RAF Benevolent Fund

We all get fleeced to sign up to donate during training and last month my contribution was 35p, but has obviously gone up at the same rate as SFA!!

HPT

LFFC

24th Apr 2006, 19:49

SH

This may help!

http://www.eds.com/services/casestudies/afpaa.aspx

I especially love this bit!

AFPAA wanted to reduce costs, modernise outdated IT systems and improve personnel services to the UK’s military service members, retirees and dependents. Over the years, and through a renegotiated contract designed to take the partnership even farther, EDS and the Agency have worked together to achieve just that.

CBA_caption

24th Apr 2006, 20:04

"...effectively manage change." and "...expertise in integrating IT solutions and administrative processes...":mad:

Shouldn't this be reported to the Advertising Standards Agency?

CBA

Vage Rot

24th Apr 2006, 20:55

only get 20mins on the net here in sandy climates on a day when we can book and guarantee not having to go flying, thereby relinquishing our place on the net to some bluntie holiday maker!!! Any chance of a quick "what's going on and are we getting paid/LSSA/etc" at the end of the month?

Tonkenna

24th Apr 2006, 23:28

Well, there is even less news as to what is going on with this c0ckup for those of us in the South Atlantic. No doubt I will find out that I have not been paid when I get a very angry email from the ex-wife that she's not got her dosh.... look forward to that:hmm:

Can't find anywhere down here to log-on, and have spoken to loads of people who haven't got any log-on details.

This is just bl00dy appaling, but it will be hailed agreat success and many will already have been promoted because of it.

Tonks:hmm:

D-IFF_ident

25th Apr 2006, 03:27

Friend of a friend is on the team at Innsworth - where they are working 18 hour shifts. The pay run will not work - tried and failed 8 times - so expect to be paid exactly the same as you got last month, when the pay run did work.

JPA will be the the final death knell for what was once a great Air Force, brought to its knees, not by guns and missiles and bombs, but by bureaucracy and incompetence and negligence.

:(

Biggus

25th Apr 2006, 07:00

I have spoken to some people who have been able to 'view' their payslip on JPA. This is not rumour, or 'a bloke in a pub told me....' but first hand information. Some aircrew have not received their flying pay for the month, and some aircrew who should not be receiving flying pay (PA spine) have been paid it........!!!

How many months, how much grief, before all this mess is sorted out.....??!!

lippiatt

25th Apr 2006, 07:47

How confident are you of being paid on Friday ???!!!!!

Quote from JPA Online 250800 Apr 06

System Acces Plan for Tue 25 Apr will be as follows:

0700-1700 - HR professional users
0700-1700 - Payroll allowed access
1700-2300 - AFPAA - payroll and other technical diagnostics etc

SELF SERVICE USERS WILL BE UNABLE TO LOGIN UNTIL FURHTER NOTICE BLAH BLAH BLAH

If the payrun last week was so good then why do they need access all day today??!!

Baskitt Kase

25th Apr 2006, 08:03

Some aircrew have not received their flying pay for the month...An unmitigated disaster and shambolic performance undoubtedly, but I have to admit that if the team are working 18 hr days to sort this, I would rather they concentrated initially on getting the basic pay sorted than neglecting that for my flying pay. After all, the basic pay makes up 75% of my take-home and the vast majority of RAF personnel are not in receipt of flying pay. It should all have been sorted before go-live, but given the situation now, I'm glad to see that the people trying to sort the mess (undoubtedly not the same people as caused JPA to be rolled out, just the poor schmucks that have to pick up the pieces) appear to have their priorities correct.

BluntM8

25th Apr 2006, 08:43

Found at http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/JpaGoesliveForRafPersonnel.htm
The army of Alexander the Great, as it swept across the known world toppling kingdoms and collecting tribute, took its pay clerks and administrators with it. In a back office behind the luxurious tents of the leader and his generals, it's a fair bet there was a scribe bent over an abacus and a clay tablet, making sure the soldiers got their pay, and the spoils of war were shared out fairly.
Why didn't we think of that... I mean, who's ever crashed an abacus?

And then this gem of a quote...

It's all a far cry from clay tablets and the rattling beads of the abacus. Would Alexander have conquered a bigger slice of the world if JPA had been available to his scribes? Probably not.

No, I imagine he wouldn't...

Blunty

Scud-U-Like

25th Apr 2006, 09:01

Inconvenient? Yes. The end of the world? No.

It's not like we've been laid-off overnight or some fat bloke has run off with our pension fund.

Where R We?

25th Apr 2006, 09:11

Just heard an interesting couple of snippets.

There are more than 150 people who haven't been paid their Flying Pay and there are some which have been paid who aren't entitled - eg PA Flt Lts!!

It also seems that Flying pay (according to JPA) is based on PIC and not person, so if you are in a non-FP PIC then you aren't entitled!! :p Might explain why some people have not received their FP!!

I am sure that won't cause some concern...how easy will it be to modify JPA to take this into account?

Safety_Helmut

25th Apr 2006, 09:18

"JPA represents a significant culture change. But if we can embrace that change, there will be lots of opportunities for improvements to the way we do business." Air Marshal Hot Air

What culture change, making a complete arse of projects, and this ones not even a biggy, is nothing new.

S_H

BootFlap

25th Apr 2006, 09:23

Scud-U-Like

I would suggest a lot more than inconvenient if someone was to slip into the red due to the pay c&*k up. Unacceptable, incompetence, straw, camel and back are all words that spring to mind before 'inconvenient'. However, I do accept your premis that it could be worse. Yes we still have our jobs, but your comment about a fat bloke nicking our pensions ....................

.......... you are talking about Brown aren't you?

Overtorque

25th Apr 2006, 09:24

Good thing I'm not aircrew on a ground tour. Oh, wait......I am!

Rather be Gardening

25th Apr 2006, 10:53

Here's today's happy little extract from the JPA (Non) Operational Bulletin

System performance issues continue and there is no predicted date for resolution. Today’s attempts (Monday, 24 Apr 06) to provide some access to self-service failed and it is likely this situation will continue until fixes to the performance issues are implemented. Rather than persist in our attempts to get self-service users onto JPA with little likelihood of success, we wish to adopt the following plan for Tue 25 Apr:

a. 0700-1700 - HR professional users provided with access

b. 0700-1700 - Payroll allowed access

c. 1700-2300 - AFPAA - payroll and other technical diagnostics, etc

As we do not know when the performance issues will be resolved, we are now planning for a second round of contingencies based upon the following and with a planning assumption that they could be in place until 12 May 06:

a.An opportunity for unit HR staff to represent issues from their unit personnel to the Enquiry Centre and JPAC Back Office.

b. The provision of some administrative functions such as expenses.

The basis of the contingencies will be that they are linked to pay and allowances and that is where our priority must lie.

Hard copies of pay slips were printed and dispatched to units today from where they will be distributed under unit arrangements. Before seeking to contact the Enquiry Centre on a pay related issue, individuals should seek to obtain their hard copy pay statements first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hard to know where to begin, isn't it?:yuk: :{

peppermint_jam

25th Apr 2006, 12:52

"20 Apr 06 - there will be NO Self-service User access. Professional Users may continue to use the system.

Self Service Users will be notified when they may access the system. This will be done from the Operations Room via unit Chf Clks.

These access restrictions are to allow essential system performance testing to continue. "

Can't wait till they say we can use it and 1000 people try to log on at the same time. Chances of a system meltdown = High!

mrwickets

25th Apr 2006, 13:04

From the AFPAA Web-site:
Our Vision : To deliver excellent Armed Forces personnel administration through outstanding customer service
Our Mission : To support UK Defence capability through the accurate payment of military personnel and provision of quality personnel administration and information services on a harmonised basis
Oh thats all right then .... how I laughed. CEA 2 days late (thanks nice Mr Bursar chappy) and still owed over £1000 in expenses. Good news is that I've got my McDonalds Hospitality Card, given that's about all you can afford in London for £21 per day combined lunch and dinner allowance!
Rant over .... for now :{

Gweedo

25th Apr 2006, 14:41

Here's the latest nugget from AMP - the good news is that only some will not get their flying pay! Join the JPA lottery now! I bet some chaps at AFPAA are getting pineapples placed in orifices that they'd rather remain intact.
JPA LAUNCH - FLYING PAY AND LATEST UPDATE
Although elements of the JPA rollout have not gone as smoothly as planned, I would like to emphasise that preparations by RAF personnel have been as thorough as they possibly could have been and reflect the considerable effort that staffs throughout the RAF have put into enabling JPA roll out. My staff continue to work with AFPAA to ensure that they, EDS and Oracle have any information they require to resolve the current system performance issues.
I am aware that a number of people have concerns about pay and pay related issues, but much of that debate is clouded by a lack of fact. Addressees will be aware that an anomaly in the payment of flying pay was identified yesterday in connection with Apr 06 pay statements. Overnight investigation has revealed that around 1100 individuals were not allocated flying pay. The source of the problem has been identified as an initial entry sequencing error in the transition to JPA. Remedial action has been swift and a further pay run will be completed today to allow the vast majority of these individuals to receive their entitlement correctly and on time. I am informed that subsequent pay runs will not be affected in the same way.
Work continues to address the system performance issue and the fault is thought to lie in the self-service area. Expert Oracle and EDS staff continue to assist AFPAA in seeking resolution. In the last week, each time that self-service was enabled the system quickly ground to a halt. For the time being access will be limited to HR professionals who will be asked to log on as self-service users at different times to enable system performance data to be gleaned. This, in turn, will assist the diagnostic and resolution process. In the meantime, self-service users will not have access to the system.
Urgent contingency planning to identify the critical self-service processes to ensure business continuity is in train. Work to date has centred on having a viable alternative method to allow the payment of expenses. Other areas identified include having an alternative method of leave entry and a means of individuals entering posting choices. Whilst I remain optimistic that the self service system performance problem will be rectified soon, I will implement an alternative process next week should it be necessary to do so. I will update you on progress in due course, but in the meantime urge you to publicise widely this update and link to the AFPAA JPA operational bulletins.
AMP