RAF JPA Rollout

[moosemaster]

Isn't the MP for Brize Norton someone quite influential with the tories???? He may even cover Benson too!!

How many service personnel there???

Ouch, that would hurt Tony at the moment.

I believe his email address is [email protected] if anyone is interested.

(source http://www.davidcameronmp.com/ )

[An Teallach]

This fiasco that it JPA has only confirmed to us that EDS are in this game for the money and nothing else.
And what else could you possibly have thought they might have been in it for? :confused: EDS's track record speaks for itself. The problem here is the lack of an intelligent client. How many times will the Govt allow itself to be ripped off by American software houses promising the (undeliverable) earth?

Of course, the promise of a lucrative sinecure (http://www.bae-it.na.baesystems.com/wat.nsf/0/D165C31280CD6BEF8525713A00538828) could not have clouded anyone's judgment.

[Almost_done]

Step onto Soap box,
Gentlemen and ladies please excuse me I may meander, however my intentions are honest and my ethos is Respect of us all serving and in the community, holding dear the Integrity of the RAF, with Service before Self and ensuring my post stays within the Ethos of the RAF spirit. Therefore the AP1 (RISE);
What gets me is the phrase, 'leader' in everything EDS do or advertise, leader in what?
Governmental overspend/insecurity in introducing a new ATC software program?
Governmental overspend/insecurity in introducing a new Passport control system?
Governmental overspend in introducing/insecurity a new DWP program?
Governmental overspend in introducing/insecurity a new CSA system?
Now forgive me if I have missed anything here but what have EDS done for us but, cost the Gov shed loads of money for pants applications. There must be some monetary claw back facility? Or did they write the contracts on good faith?
I hope not as I'll get Cherie BLair (£250 per hair-do) as my Human Rights lawyer once I rotate back to civilian life. as they must have been abused at sometime within my life in the forces!! (some bleeding heart will tell me I am sure)
Wow EDS so good we said it at least 4 times in the BLair Administration, we can't still be brought down the path of its was the previous administrations fault! If so it was BLair and his party as a country we have managed to ensure his place in the annuls of British political history as the longest serving (I use that word with care i.e. who are they serving?) Labour Government.
Normally I don't get angry/upset about politics, but I am now reaching the end of my tether. we are now being left in the possible position of having to go on Det/OPs and pay for it out of our own pocket, only to claim it back, 'if we have all the receipts'. Now someone mentioned on the RAF forums that Admin will not impact on the trades. Oh yes 'Former IT Bloke' party stooge if there was ever one. If you wish to fly in an A/C where the Tech's are worrying about pay etc or the flight crew are as well.
Tell me the functionality of the system outweighs the security/operational benefits/time saving/admin burden.
The persons who commissioned JPA probably had the BEST intentions, however they were so far removed from the coal face they had no real idea of the impact upon the RAF of its introduction. We are now wasting at least 40min per call to JPAC (I have records of this) to find out if a SAC is now Q-OPS, this is untenable, as I need my SAC Q-OPS to complete the servicing of the A/C, they have been paid and given back pay for the Q-OPS rank, but this month it has been taken away as the system does not recognise the legacy F252. FFS what am I meant to do I need these guys to be able to operate as Q-OPS to carry out the A/C servicing, now they are worried as are they Q-OPS or not, are they going to get a pay deduction next month or not? I have phoned the HR section (PSF) the guys there were very stressed but tried to help the best they can, JPAC won't answer the phone.
What option is left to us the ‘customer’ of the AFPAA since the introduction of SAMA we the ‘customer’ have never been so left out of the loop, at least with SAMA PSF still had the KARDEX system to work from. We should not raise our voices against PSF/HR Flt but the personnel who arranged for this system to be brought on blind. Sorry you cannot trial a system with 230 pers on one unit over 3weeks and then say that’s it is good to go for a whole fighting Force, let alone Tri Service.
Looking back at the RAF forums, those with intranet can see it. Former IT Bloke is so far into the company pockets he’s in the hems of the CAS’s trousers, yes he does put up a good fight and I am sure he is able in his field, but his arrogance in dealing with us is untenable with his position.
We now are aware that the system is insecure; this is not tenable, versus, ‘functionality’ as he puts it. How would it be if, we as engineers said we’ll its functional, one trip only’ we’ll worry about security if you come back? Not to worry it’s just your life on the line? Compare that to not to worry it’s just all your personal details available any Hacker with an above average IQ to find? By the way they tend not to join regimented, hierarchical systems as they do not enjoy the structure of the aforementioned systems, therefore they think well outside the box to get into it. Leaving us trailing far behind catching them up, as Former IT Bloke said we are beta testers, however we are not protected by the Data Protection Act as he thinks, as the RLI is not a secure INTRANET as it has direct and uncontrollable links with the INTERNET, especially the JPA home page, if you have an IGS account and click on the Oracle Privacy link on the bottom R/H side of the main page you go straight onto the INTERNET, and packet share there, no mac address, no secure sockets, plain old clear text.
As I said on my original post I am not trying to stir, scare monger or do anything of any other sort I just want to ensure my data s secure according to the Data Protection Act, as if I was to hold a database about persons on my unit and it was unsecured and leaked out onto the public domain I’d be held accountable. I am just wanting parity amongst organisations, and to ensure we are not left as Second Class Citizens.
Step off soap box
If you want to argue for the security side please do and I'll be happy to research alongside you for a feaseable outcome.
P.S. If anyone wants to take my written words from a public forum and use them as the wish as long as they keep them in the context in which they are written please feel free to do so.

[airborne_artist]

He may even cover Benson too!!

Boris the Bonker Johnson is the MP for South Oxfordshire's secret helo base. I'm sure if the complainant is a) female and b) up for it, that he'll be happy to deal with matters :ok:

[petop]

New to the site and being from over there...ie ARRSE. i was reading with great interest about the dreaded JPA.
Im on HRMS at the moment and have been since last yr. Its nothing special and doesnt do half the things that JPA is meant to do, but many a time its slow and sometimes doesnt want to work till after its got into the office and had a brew!!
I decided to look on the EDS website and spotted this on the "EDS wins DII contract and JPA bla bla bla..."
"The statements in this news release that are not historical statements, including statements regarding the amount of new contract values, are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties, many of which are beyond EDS' control, which could cause actual results to differ materially from such statements. For information concerning these risks and uncertainties, see EDS' most recent Form 10-Q. EDS disclaims any intention or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise."
The writing was on the wall!!!

[waf_mafia]

FP on mine as a separate payment as well. FFP have fun kicking some admin butt. Hope you get it sorted.

you should know us adminers like having our buts kicked!!:)

[Brown Job]

:ok: Thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of our hearts we are most grateful to the RAF for volunteering to alpha test JPA. Please ensure that before 150,000 squaddies are let loose on the system next spring (or perhaps next autumn or perhaps ....) that; it works properly, one can actually log in, the enquiry centre will really answer the telephone, it is very very simple to use and it is impossible to break.

Unusually on the arrse we have felt sympathy and horror at the teething troubles that you seem to be encountering and we urge to work harder to ensure that when the jolly jack tars start on the system, it is better and by the time (god forbid) that we let the jocks loose it should be instructable! ... otherwise they will destruct it.

[higthepig]

Don't know what you are all moaning at, just read my JPA charter, its all quite clear and help is easily too hand as their purpose is 'To deliver excellent pay and personnel administration services.....' They aim to answer your call within 50 seconds........
Wonder why it was sent to my house when my pay statement has to go to work?
Wonder why my mate did not get paid this month because they reckoned his DOB was in 2012?
Still could be worse, could have eaten the Spurs lasagne, could have been a fly on the wall of the ODPM, could have been a scribbley but then nothing is that bad, is it?

[Scribbly]

Well, with a name like mine I can't let that go un-noticed! Yep, I bit.:ok:

I have to say that now that most users have realised that it's not our fault it doesn't work, and that we didn't invent it, and that we'd really like to help you if we could, life is not so bad as a scribbly. And don't forget, some of us didn't get paid at all (never mind not having the flying pay only) either so there's no special treatment for the PSF staff.

Your PSF sends a weekly "how goes it" report back to AFPAA, so if you want your points to be heard you could send a nice e-mail to your PSF and if it is accompanied by chocolate biscuits they might attach it to the report next week. :)

[Almost_done]

if it is accompanied by chocolate biscuits :)
Would that be chocolate Hob-Nobs?

[PerArdua]

I know it has been mentioned more than once before in this thread but how come I have to put up a fully justified case why I want my pay statement sent to home, wth support from my bosses but they then send the JPA Customer Care Charter to my LO PRI address. Seems to be double standards going on here. I like the "harmonised basis" bit on the front maybe it means they have hired a choir to man the JPAC because they certainly don't have clue about JPA.

PA

[winglad]

I think that JPA in theory is a good idea very badly implemented. Not only do we have to do our own admin! now the terminology that we know and love has changed too. its no longer Scribblies but HR at one end and no longer a claim but a capped actual at the other? thank god i havent had to submit any claims yet.
I think the change should of been made in four steps, unfreezing by making us aware how inadequate the old system was then-changing implementing the new system i.e everything thats not happened so far-refreezing communicating how the changes have rectified the problems of the old system i.e how good it works and how much better off we are-evaluating check feedback from the masses and go to the AOC's cocktail party
quote:Kurt Lewin says "JPA is about much use as an handbrake on a canoe!!"

[SidHolding]

Day 10 - No flying pay, basic still wrong, rank worng etc, no answer to my last 2 SR's (service requests, or complaints if you're not lucky enough to be on jpa):sad:

[Ivan Rogov]

So what do people do next month if they are not paid again?

The original advice was to keep one months wages just incase, might need 2 months at this rate!

JPA has to be the classic case of pressonItus.

On the bright side, lovely weather today.

[Unmissable]

Hey, I got paid a 'promotion grant' this month. The last time I got promoted was 9 years ago (it also said this on the pay staement) and unless someone knows something I don't, then I don't deserve this. However, I am still £700 down on this month's pay overall and despite calls to service centre (approx 5 mins wait to be answered), all that has happened is that I have been passed from one person without any knowledge to another.

I am not suggesting it is the fault of the individuals, but the system which for economic reasons does not train properly. They (and I) were always polite, and they were very dutiful and tried their best, but they clearly could not answer any questions without asking someone higher up the chain what to do. Why have a service centre (helpline) full of people who cannot help??????

[D-IFF_ident]

10th of the month. Mess bills and logbooks are due. Alas no pay statement; no flying pay.

On the subject of pay statements only going to work addresses... how does that work for remote posts, they're stil legally entitled to their pay statements, when, or before they are paid; not afterwards.

[PhoenixDaCat]

Having read all 27 pages of this thread, I get a warm feeling that the national ID database, and the plans to track and charge all car journeys, will never ever succeed, as no doubt EDS will be involved somewhere along the line.

[Mr C Hinecap]

How about the cunning ploy to get the help stats up? Phone is answered within 10 seconds. You pose the question. The reply is 'I can't answer that - I'll call through to XXXXX. Oh - they're engaged - but I can give you another number to call direct.' That number is terminally engaged :bored:

Or am I being cynical?

[Tonkenna]

Well the Minister for the Armed Forces (Adam Ingram) seemed rather surprised that JPA was a problem... When asked why JPA was rushed in when it didn't work he replied that the message he was getting was that it was a success with only minor problems... great to know that the senior management passes the message up!!!:hmm:

Anyway, he now has the message as to what is wrong with the system. I have no doubt it will be sorted.:}

BTW, after the ac we flew him on decided not to play, he also promised to by us a new one, so FSTA is only months away:ok: :hmm: :}

Tonks

[spillage]

I work at a remote location in Germany and still haven't had my pay statement - when I queried my friendly PSF staff (2 hours drive away!) they told me that it had been addressed to RAF Innsworth!!

As the only blue-suiter in a green environment, JPA should have made my life easier but I am more isolated than ever - I can't sort anything out due to all the problems previously highlighted and now the face to face admin contact has been removed my Missus won't be able to do anything on my behalf when I deply on ops next week. The 'you will be able to access the system when you are in theatre sir' answer doesn't really grip my sh:mad: t.

What the f:mad: k is going on and when will it be sorted.

[Chainkicker]

Blimey...had my first experience with JPA yesterday (as now on terminal leave).
Paychit finally received, only a couple of hundred short of what it should be :{
Then came the fun trying to get a mileage claim for a hospital appointment using my own car...Presumably i should have filled the tank up before setting off and then refilled it on returning to unit, presenting the receipt to prove that i actually spent money on fuel?? And is there any way of factoring in the other elements that used to combine to make our (exceedingly generous) mileage rate?? And just as a matter of interest, do MOD civilians still get a mileage rate per mile or are they also stuck with this time consuming and convoluted system??

Next time (if there is time for one) i shall now doubtless get MT to hire me a car. Im sure that will save the RAF money compared to paying a mileage rate...

Glad to be leaving although its a bit worrying that JPAC now also seem to be involved in pensions side. Whats the betting that they wont have actioned my request for maximum commutation????

edit : I see theres a bit in the latest issue of Private Eye about JPA :)

[Pristina]

Scribbly quote
"Your PSF sends a weekly "how goes it" report back to AFPAA, so if you want your points to be heard you could send a nice e-mail to your PSF"

Why not send this link to AFPPA? and while you are at it, Adam Ingham, as he appears to be in touch with reality as usual:

"Well the Minister for the Armed Forces (Adam Ingram) seemed rather surprised that JPA was a problem... When asked why JPA was rushed in when it didn't work he replied that the message he was getting was that it was a success with only minor problems... great to know that the senior management passes the message up!!!"

I have to ask the question why did the RAF volunteer to go first, was it to get the senior airships a pat on the head from John Reid?

[BellEndBob]

Could be that the high level aircrew thought 'Admin? Must be a piece of P*ss, go ahead!'.:rolleyes:

[TheBeeKeeper]

Interesting comments about PPruNers!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/raf_hr_fix/

[Pristina]

Interesting comments about PPruNers!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/raf_hr_fix/

Nice to see the technique of spin is alive and well and not confined to the Government!

[Chainkicker]

Nice comment below. Bet his pay wasnt f**ked up last month...
/quote "Wing Commander Trevor Field, a RAF spokesman and administrator, said he was unhappy with press interest in the delay and "bored" RAF "whingers" on chat sites like the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe), which he said make things appear worse than they are". /unquote..
Obviously bucking for gold braid on his hat....

[foldingwings]

Who's this ostrich then?

Wing Commander Trevor Field, a RAF spokesman and administrator, said he was unhappy with press interest in the delay and "bored" RAF "whingers" on chat sites like the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe), which he said make things appear worse than they are.

It took 8 Days to eventually submit a travel claim and 10 days for JPA to pay it! I ain't whinging just pointing out that the old manual F1771 system had it in my bank account within 3 days!

Wake up, Trev! You Blunty!

Wing Commander Field could not say whether the MOD would seek compensation for the delay from EDS, despite a recent application for compensation from the supplier (EDS) for MOD delays that impacted another EDS project, the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII).

DII! Another puppy that will sh!t all over our carpets and, it seems, the same bloody mob of no-hopers are doing that one too!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

FW

[LFFC]

"bored" RAF "whingers"

Well, I guess that we're only bored because we're waiting for the JPA helpline to be answered! :bored:

As for being a "whinger", yes - I do complain when the service that I'm entitled to isn't up to standard. I suppose that I've been working with too many Americans!

I'll give then a chance now that I know that their problems "will be solved completely by the end of the week"!

[WhiteOvies]

It's only 'RAF Whingers' because the rest of us haven't been f:mad: d over by JPA yet. Give it a few months and I'm sure the rest of the MOD aviation world will be whinging on PPRuNe too!:rolleyes:

[airborne_artist]

So if a chap/chapess is missing pay, can't speak to anyone about it (perhaps beacuse they are sandy side) what they are supposed to do what exactly? Bet the system has no accurate way of checking that the pay has been correctly made up, anyway.

I'd suggest a group of "bored" RAF "whingers" get onto their MP and ask them to push hard on their behalf. A Govt. that can't send back hi-jackers needs calling to account for all its errors.

[foldingwings]

Back to The Register:

UK Govt website keels under weight of terror bomb report

Another EDS project I'll be bound! :rolleyes:

FW

[PompeySailor]

As an interested party (RN, the next victims in this sorry tale), it is interesting to see how the venerable Wing Commander is more concerned at rubbishing the "whingers" than with turning on the people whose fault this all is. As for promising a solution "by the end of the week" - it will be interesting to see what he classes as a "solution" - will it be restitution of the self-service function, or will it be extending the working hours outside normal UK Office hours? Having seen the latest of the regular SITREPs for the system, and the attached memo which details a poor crab's efforts to get a travel claim processed, I would suggest that the Wing Commander should look to support his people, not to defend the company which has provided this shower of sh1t.

The RN top levels are fully aware of all this, and look in on Pprune, Rum Ration, ARRSE and other sources on a regular basis, and at the moment the nervous laughter is becoming quieter and quieter....

[The Gorilla]

Trevor Field

Ah yes another Koala that's climbing the tree!

:}

[South Bound]

lol - guess the Wg Cdr has done a different press course to me then. Never good to totally alienate a group of people with genuine concerns (sorry, whinges), neither is it good to promise the system will be fixed by the weekend. Guess he will look fairly silly come Monday morning if the 'fires are still smouldering'.

Give him the benefit of the doubt tho, I look forward to everyone's pay and access rights being sorted by Monday, I'm sure we all will - after all he promised didn't he...?

[airborne_artist]

How does the good WingCo plan to sort out the band-width issues in 72 hours? Can he re-write the laws of physics, as well?

Answers on a post-card to Pprune Towers, c/o The Poke It Inn, Wibble.

[SidHolding]

Day 11:

No FP, no correction of basic, no paper wage slip, no replies to SR's, no news, no nothing.

I know more than a few people in my position, are we the only ones left now?

Sid :(

[formertonkaplum]

Whingers........ you after a job with these W*nkers too Sir? Or just another high ranker who is more interested in 'STATS' than anything else.

How many people have COMPLAINED about the failure of JPA on here? Whats the STAT on that?

Wake up and smell Coffee, you stuck up P*ICK.

[BEagle]

See also: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/09052006/368/eds-s-raf-pay-system-struggles.html

"Wing Commander Trevor Field, a public relations consultant and forces administrator, said problems where still being ironed out, and self-service access was still limited. But only about two per cent of 50,000 RAF salaries had been miscalculated by the system. He could not confirm how many people had benefits such as flight pay miscalculated, but insisted the system had been properly tested.

He explained it had been a difficult job for EDS because there were 70 old computer systems that needed to be incorporated into the old one, and that the old method probably gave more errors."

TMAC

[Jobza Guddun]

OK then, WingCo Whatzizface promises a solution by the end of the week (can't remember it word for word but saw the article in The Register).

So if the system doesn't work properly, on Monday will he go public with an apology to all those who still can't access the system, those he has insulted, and then resign his commission there and then? Nope, thought not. Or is he the sacrificial lamb? ("goat" more appropriate?)

I would have thought that a Wing Commander would know better than to commit himself like that, especially given what has gone on before. No-one in their right mind should make promises they can't keep.

On the other hand, if it works as advertised, I'll give him his due.

Followed by "about time you bluntie gits".

JG

[foormort]

If the Wg Cdr does indeed speak for the Royal Air Force, well Sir I could hardly blame personnel from venting their understandable fustrations on an open forum as it seems there are no other channels open to them. I hope for your credibility that the system is fully operational by cop friday, as we all know credibility is the key when we consider command. I wonder what command means to you? What or who were you considering when you made the above comments?
I hope you were mindfull of those who have been financially out of pocket or inconvenienced by the unhappy debut of JPA. Think before you issue forth some pretty hefty criticism of those who are entitled to their views, I for one do not respect your comments. Not a big thumbs up from a JO.
But from reading your comments above I'm 100% certain you don't give a damn!!

[Almost_done]

For the second time in an open forum now the 'winger' comment has been made by Wg Cmdr (see LEAN at Lyneham), once they recive critisim are they taught that all are beneath them and then just wingeing? :mad: :mad: :mad:

Do they not realise that there are serious concerns and we have no recourse but to the open forums, to air our viewpoints. As no other buffer will.

I for one wait with baited breath to see if he is as good as his word, if not he then just gets added to the rest of the white noise coming out of the MoD/Gov for me. :ugh:

Oh and whats he doing reading forums anyway, GET it fixed then read the forum..............

[Testingtheseatlimit]

I concur with most of the above. As soon as you display anything but subservience in this RAF you are shafted!! Hence the benefit of this forum... it allows you to vent your frustrations without shafting yourself. Summed up with the general policy spouted by Seniors and PMA at this time.... "if you don't like it leave". Maybe it should become the new RAF motto???!!:uhoh:

[LFFC]

Hence the benefit of this forum... it allows you to vent your frustrations without shafting yourself.

Seeing as there are so many new contributors to this forum (and this thread in particular) here are a few timely words of caution:


Nothing on the Internet is totally anonymous.
This is a rumour network and rumours are often wrong.
News reports are frequently inaccurate and spokesmen are often misquoted.
People who post to forums are often not what they make themselves out to be.
Some contributors may have a dark reason for creating discontent.

[FJJP]

Whinging, eh? Ok fellas, lets just stop any further posts this week. Nothing more, completely dead. Then on Monday, everybody should be able to use the system as advertised. OK?

Let's not give the good Wg Cdr anything further to gripe about, and assess the situation next week. By then, all missing pay will have been paid and there will be no more problems. Got it?

No more posts then.

But Wg Cdr Field, you'd better be right, or stand by for the blast.

You ain't seen nuthin' yet...









[You got to admire his b*lls!]

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Hi Gang;

Is this guy listed on the Global Address List....
Might be worth an e-mail from those whose pay is not yet sorted...:}

Just a Thought!!:ok:

Regards;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

[D-IFF_ident]

Even bored RAF whingers have rights, sir.

Oh, just found this to add to the list too:

http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/1078?PHPSESSID=a7dd006103b1b0f7d24b2c6428fa1c8b#comment

Sorry to whinge, but please may I have my pay, and a pay statement?

[whiz]

Of course he's unhappy with press interest in the story, its exposed him and the system for the total pieces of crap that they undoubtedly are !
Trev Field, one wonders if the initials are a mere coincidence
Total F*ckwit :mad:

[A2QFI]

I can't post a link but PE has had a short and relevant comment on the matter.

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Don't all log on at once guys but it's working......

SBG

[Almost_done]

Including leave?

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Well, I tried and it seems to be working for leave but my 'approver' isn't set up so I couldn't submit.

[Almost_done]

Well I'll fall off my chair!!

[PompeySailor]

Hi Gang;

Is this guy listed on the Global Address List....
Might be worth an e-mail from those whose pay is not yet sorted...:}

Just a Thought!!:ok:

Regards;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

Oooh - he's on DII (naturally)! Field, Trevor, including his phone number...:D

Of course, it would not be right to email him with personal JPA queries...:=

[Bluntend]

Well, I tried and it seems to be working for leave but my 'approver' isn't set up so I couldn't submit.

Are you not able to self authorise?

[plans123]

I am when I can get on it. Couldn't submit my leave last week, so wandered down the corridor to see the Sqn scribbly. He handed me a piece of paper saying 'Fill out this form'. Now, the piece of paper he handed me looked suspiciously like a leave pass (remember them?)

Anyone got any wheels that need re-inventing?

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Are you not able to self authorise?

I should be but am now waiting for 'Unit HR Staff' to sort it out.....

SBG

[MichelleLM]

Here's one for you that I only found out about whilst having my pay cocked up. You remember the good old days when they could only take money back off you at a rate of 4 days' gross at a time? Well, if you're not already aware, that's all changed.

You can now have up to 50% of your gross monthly pay (minus Income tax, NI Maternity Pay, Statutory Adoption Pay and Statutory Maternity Pay) taken off you in one lump. See a a little beauty of a publication called JSP 754 Ch2 Sec 4 for more details.

A nice chap in the JPA "back offices" (Ian Sneddon) told me that when I asked how come large wodges of my pay could go missing for no apparent reason. So if you get a mistake in your favour (or even just some act of wrongness) applied to your pay account, unfeasibly large deductions can now be made all at once. :ugh:

Just thought I'd let you all know in case you weren't aware...

[Bluntend]

I should be but am now waiting for 'Unit HR Staff' to sort it out.....
SBG
Good Luck...
Bluntend

[PompeySailor]

Has anybody received the PR stuff they were sending out? Mousemats and mobile phone deckchairs. Real shame, considering mobile phones are banned in pretty much all Admin Offices....

Also heard that one or two members of the RAF who decided not to come to work a few years back have been made "live" and paid!

Still, waiting for Monday to see the new improved JPA XP/PS3/XBOX360 Version 1.0 that the Wing Commander will be working on this weekend. In line with most software that Officers like, as long as it produces graphs in colour it will be declared a resounding success.....

[MichelleLM]

Have had the JPA Customer Care Charter if that counts...

In fact I went up to the admin staffs' hideout to see if I could get an address of someone who might have an orifice in which the said document could be appropriately inserted. Unfortunately it was shut as they were away team building...

Have to say, those personnel still at work in admin were very helpful and sympathetic, but it does give the impression of management "fiddling whilst Rome burns..."

[diginagain]

I was an IT architect on the MoD's AAFPA project. The purpose of which was to unify all pay and administration for all three services.
Maybe someone might want a word...

[lippiatt]

Well, Wingco whatsizface has been proved right so far I think. Logged on just now via DII and all the bits were working as promised, I'm not trying to PVR or rescind one so I'm impressed so far.

Wonder how long before it crashes, or will it be taken off of us again for the pay run this month?

[MilSpFunc]

PN,
If it still is PSF why did I have to send my receipts to 'Chf Clk, HR Flight'?
Kev Nurse/Kitbag,
Being told by the HR staff that JPA is not their fault and responsibility is utter bollox. If I was told to address admin enquiries to the JPAC or Air Cdre T at Worthy Down, why are they still employed on base in the HR Flt? This came from the person I have to send my receipts for audit. Should I send my receipts in future to the JPAC or Worthy Down? The answer is no I shouldn't because unit admin still exists and should be the point of contact.
Ringing the JPAC is a waste of time in both waiting for an answer and the answer you get from the Helpdesk personnel. Like HR Flt, these helpdesk personnel do not have the knowledge to be of any use - but why should we accept that? It is no good saying that it'll be OK in a few years or the staff will learn as you are messing with money and morale.
I accept the point that responsibility for JPA should only be a third for the light blue adminers as its purple. I also accept the point of venting our spleen at the person signing it off but who is that? Who is going to listen and get it fixed?

Here as in many areas of this site there is a request to know who is responsible and the simple answer is many people but I am assured that the Senior Responsible Officer (SRO) on this project was DCDS(Pers) an RAF AM. So the decision was not purplel, the RAF could have declined but decided to get on with it. I am sure the RN and Army are eternally grateful

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

Things seemed to have improved today and could access most parts of the system. Still waiting for a response from the JPAC ref 2 expense claims though.
However, whilst I was waiting for JPAC to answer this morning I listened to the full range of musak inc 633 Sqn, Dambusters and then moved onto a selection of Bond soundtracks which got me thinking. What music would you expect or want to hear whilst you are waiting for JPAC to pick up the phone?
My starter for ten would be the theme tune from 'Mission Impossible'.

[Al Fresco]

No Flying pay this month, together with 1100 others or so. Not paid fg pay with the later, 'catch-all' BACS payments in early May. Had to chase up on the JPA hotline, after 40 mins in queue they couldn't get my details up on their screen either and I was referred back to sqn Admin staff. Sweet.

After the initial pay F*ck up, about 800 people received a BACS payment to cover fg pay, and about 500 people were missed AGAIN. It's now up to individuals who missed the fg pay payment TWICE to make the necessary noise and chase it up as there 'isn't time' to see if everyone got paid.

Apparently specialist pay wasn't 'a priority' this month. Wish I could prioritise my mortgage payments!

[opso]

What music would you expect or want to hear whilst you are waiting for JPAC to pick up the phone?It shouldn't matter. After all, I have the charter (sent to my home, unlike my pay statement) that says that they will answer the phone within 50 secs.:eek:

[SidHolding]

Day 12:

Still no flying pay, basic wrong, incorrect deductions, rank wrong, LSA wrong.

I was however able to access JPA today and view my pay statement (still no paper copy) but alas, I hadn't dreamt the above comments, it is all still wrong.

Oh, some kind HR dude/dudess has put my leave in for the end of the month bank holiday. Whoops, I'm on an exped then!! There's no facility to cancel it! More phone calls next week then. :ugh:

[C130 Techie]

It seems that a batch of expense claims, including mine have been paid into cyberspace. They have been showing as paid for 11 days now but have not gone into bank accounts.

Helpdesk say that they were paid out by Centurion but it seems neither they or the people at Worthy Down are accepting that its their problem so we will just have to wait for our money.

Still can't put in an overseas next of kin - Query raised over a month ago.:ugh:

Still cant find anyone at the JPAC who can sort out the address to which they sent my pay statement.

I feel that there is a way to go yet before all is well with JPA

[Ali Barber]

System may be working, but my missing pay also missed the mid-May pay run. Bread and water for the rest of this month!

[Jobza Guddun]

Well, as pledged before, fair play to the fella, give him his due.

From what I've seen today (Friday afters 1630..........) it seemed to be working OK and at a reasonable speed too. Is there a Strike stand down today and I'm the only one who didn't know?

Shame about all the errors that still haven't been sorted yet. Will that be next Friday? Hope those affected have some success soon.

Jobza

[D-IFF_ident]

I got my pay statement! - and my mate got his page 2 of 2 (alas, no page 1).

Now at least I know for sure that I didn't get my flying pay. Ironically enough - I flew over 100 hours last month.

[Brown Job]

As MilSpFunc says, and he should know as he went through the mud and the blood and the green fields beyond to tell you where the responsibility lies, it is one of your own and we are eternally grateful that 'cos we have no real DII that it cannot be done to us ...... yet.

Still it seems to be getting better (is that true?) and you all seem happily now able to carry out your own admin. So is it all that ends well ....?

[Brain Potter]

But it's all been a massive success...

On 20 March 06, the Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency (AFPAA) successfully rolled out JPA to over 48,000 RAF Service personnel throughout the world on time and on budget.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/news_0605_08.html

....hasn't it?

** WARNING - For your keyboard's sake please put down your tea before opening the link. **

[SidHolding]

Thanks for the warning!!

I'm considerably out of pocket. I've seen the letter dated 2 May from the AMP stating that the flying pay would be paid that week, it wasn't. I've heard rumours it'll be paid in the May pay, JPAC couldn't confirm this. I don't know for sure when and if I'm getting my money, this month? next?

If anybody wants to play a tune for me on their violin, I'm staying in tonight as I can't afford to go out, and we know why that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[dallas]

Not convinced about admin computer systems but it would appear we've got world class bullsh!tters within our ranks...

If only they had an olympics...

[LFFC]

I finally managed to book some leave on the JPA system yesterday and most of its features seem to be active. But in my opinion, there is still a lot of work to be done to JPA before it can be considered a success. The 2 most important issues that have to be fixed are:

The introduction of SSL security. The civil servants have it on their HRMS system, so why can't we have that level of security too?

The overall user unfriendliness of the system. No disrespect intended, but although the RAF may be able to cope with JPA, I dread to think what will happen when 100,000 Army troops try to use it. Anyone managed to update their next-of-kin details yet?

[Pontius Navigator]

I have a leave pass somewhere in my in tray. What do I do with it?

[akula]

PN,

If it is your own leave pass then bin it, if it is one of your staff's then bin it and if you do not know who it belongs to then bin it.

You will be adding to the collective greater good and doing nice turn for the individual involved. I have attempted to generate leave passes on the system and have failed. Therefore, if my work does not really care where I am, why should I waste my time trying to tell them:ugh: :ugh:

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[Pontius Navigator]

Akula,

It was a semi-humourous rhetorical suggestion. I don't have a JPA password and it is not my leave pass.

Unfortunately I believe it was put on my desk last Tuesday and I am not going on leave myself until the end of the month. It is only on the last day of the month that I clear my in-tray and file things appropriately.

This means my tray will not be cleared until 30 June.

[Pontius Navigator]

Brown Job says <<'cos we have no real DII that it cannot be done to us ...... yet.>>

Don't we know it. Enter everything into HRMS, print it out, mail it to HQ. at least our DII terminal came with a high speed printer.

Purple Navigator

[Dimmer Switch]

Thie following is SUPPOSED to be my suggestion for the JPA "theme tune", but I fear the technology may be beyond me. Fingers crossed :)
http://melaman2.com/cartoons/looney/themes/looney_tunes_end1.mp3

Edited to try to make the sodding thing work !

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Nice One Dimmer!!!

'J' Bloke:cool:

[SirToppamHat]

Brain Potter

Thanks for that link. What a load of B***S**T. It really is a kick in the slats for the 'users'. Reminds me of that line from Blackadder:

Melchett: 'If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.'
found it here:

Blackadder Quote Site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/blackadder/quotes/index.shtml) Well worth a visit!

That said, I did manage to get a claim in yesterday (SATURDAY!), it took over an hour and resulted in a violation because the £6 I claimed for London Underground (King's X to MoD and back) was above the allowed limit for a day. Bolleaux.

STH

Edited to correct my original version of the quote.

[Pontius Navigator]

Sir Toppham, the solution is obvious. Travel as far as the money lasts and then stop over for the night.

Only last week we got a directive from DCINC to reduce RTAs. Although official vehicle rules prohibit you from travelling/working more than 11 hours and also mandate rest breaks w are now asked to observe similar rules for non-military vehicles.

So, if your meeting requires you to leave home at 7.30 for a meeting at 1000, the meeting lasts until 1600, you depart for home at 1630, at 1830 if you are not at home you should stop for the night.:}

If that does not work then try and get a driver. It will definitely work then.

Remember, if you try and play ball with then they will stuff the bat right up your ****

[Mr C Hinecap]

Pontius. Suggest you have a friendly chat with your MTO. We've been observing the regs for some years now - the MT chaps were directed to do it. I was enforcing the 'no more than 8 hrs driving in a 12 hr duty day' in 2001 and it wasn't new then.
OC Eng at the time changed his personal practices once we explained the result of fatigue to him (think Selby rail disaster). Whether you're driving an MT car, hire car or your own, you are still doing it for work, therefore on Duty.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr Chinecap, I am, in a manner of speaking, my MTO. The point I was making was not service driving but when you drive your own vehicle the rules do not apply.

This means that you can get up at o'christ hundred, drive like a maniac, do a day's work, skip tea, and drive like a maniac back to mother. Some of you will have accidents, some of these will involve fatalities.

DCINC has said that this is unacceptable and that private driving should conform to service rules. For instance if you are working all day Monday you would probably be unfit to proceed the night before and night stop prior to your meeting. Similarly after your meeting and rush home you are probably not out of rest until later the next day. The temptation of being in bed with Mrs C may outweigh your discretion and the pressure you are under to do the work task means you do a full day's work either side too. The hours just don't add up.

Years ago I tried to introduce a 'fixed' programme concept:

Monday 0900 Met Brief - 1000 mission planning, 1700 into crew rest, 0500 show time, airborne 0800, land 1300, debrief 1500 and stack. The programme for the 5 hour trip would automatically cover two days. No, slip in a sim, do orderly officer, war target study etc.

On Shacks we started with something like that:

Monday-Friday one crew on Ops, which meant a rest period for most of the crew.

One crew on QRA - at home at rest and so on.

As the task expanded, the manning shrank etc so the 'duty crew was used to back fill flying crews. The QRA crew was called in for light duties in the morning etc. Even when the QRA crew did a full morning's work and were stood-down to rest at home they were often called in and launched later in the evening clocking up some 16 hours face time.

As someone said earlier, most things are not important and some things do not matter at all. With our caring sharing air force you should make sure you get your share and take care of yourself. No one else will.

[TheInquisitor]

DCINC has said that this is unacceptable and that private driving should conform to service rules

So how would that square with a crew RTBing after a 16hr crew duty day, involving crossing several time zones? Would they have to stay in the mess on landing? And if the mess was full, would Ops book you a hotel room downtown and provide transport?

DCINC has no authority to insist service rules apply to private driving, or private anything for that matter - the clue's in the name.

[The Gorilla]

However, as the man who was responsible for the Selby rail crash found out, drive when you are tired and you will go to jail if you have an accident. In his case he alone was culpable because he spent the entire night before on an internet chat room. Should you be FORCED to drive after a 16 hour crew duty day then the RAF would also be culpable in the event of an RTA. I suspect it is this aspect that DCinC is driving at! :)

[SirToppamHat]

The driving thing has always been an issue - for people working the standard 2d 2n 1s 3o shift pattern, the tempation has always been to get a couple of hours shuteye on the 2nd night and then drive to relatives for the days off. It is extremely difficult to control and the argument that it is actually outside the Service control usually wins. However, I have seen people ordered not to drive following exercises and the like.

On the other hand, what we are seeing more of (and this has nothing to do with JPA) is people 'choosing' to use their own cars for duty journeys. This option might normally be turned down by the Boss because it is not the cheapest (eg when self-drive MT is available). However, the thing that swings it is the offset of the cost of accommodation because of the time limits on the use of MT. It is something which those of us in positions to influence need to be wary of.

Back to JPA. I have 2 Qs:

1. Are shift workers able to get the leave thing to work properly/fairly?

2. What are people doing about NoK? One of the complaints I have seen a lot of is the inability of people to correct NoK info which is wrong on the system - are unit commanders making separate arrangements? What is the PMOC using as the primary source of info?

Pip pip

STH

[Pontius Navigator]

As the Gorilla says, if you are forced or indeed make the choice.

For instance if you land at a secret Wiltshire air base then they should prvide you with a get-you-home service or a put-you-up one. The problem now is that Mr TruckDriver would rather sleep with Mrs TruckDriver so they will offer the put-you-up option knowing full well . . .

If you insist on your rights, take the offered bed and then claim fatigue the next day because of disturbance etc you might just get the MT the next time.

Trouble is bat and ball every time. Yes indeed the hotac might have to be offered. The advice came in on an email about Thursday or Friday. try and track down a copy.

Good game :}

[Yeller_Gait]

Getting back to the Wg Cdr's claim that JPA will be fully up and running tomorrow ...

I tried several times today to log on to JPA, and it seems that the whole JPA website is off-line, not even the log in page was available.

Is JPA supposed to be available 24/7, or is it working week only ? Maybe they have taken the whole system down in order to correct all the problems with it by tomorrow morning so that someones credibility remains intact?

Or maybe the server is just down again? Guess I will find out tomorrow.

Y_G

[JessTheDog]

This story made Private Eye! :}

Perhaps it will now filter out to the wider media, along with the hapless Wg Cdr's morale-enhancing contribution to the "debate" on JPA.

[PompeySailor]

This story made Private Eye! :}

Perhaps it will now filter out to the wider media, along with the hapless Wg Cdr's morale-enhancing contribution to the "debate" on JPA.

Good, hopefully it will make the Times shortly as well.....seeing as how the same journo mate of mine works for both publications.....I think I sent him some links by mistake.:O

Standby for Wg Cdr caveats. When he says "fully functional", I don't imagine for one minute you are going to get 100% functionality. You will get a reduced application set of core functions, the rest no doubt will be classed as non-essential.

[D-IFF_ident]

So, was it fully finctional today?

I didn't get my flying pay yet...

[BEagle]

Fully fictional, more like.....

[SilentlyScreaming]

Sorry to hear it is all going so badly.
Don't normally post in this area - IT questions are more my thing, but saw this thread linked from TheRegister, and thought I'd pass on my condolences. I used to work for EDS, until about 5 weeks ago, when we were all let out... Due to JPA being ready to 'take the strain'.
Ooops.
Left the country - well out of EDS' grasp now :>
Seriously, we met the support guys'n'gals who were taking over, and I'm sure they are doing their utmost to get things running at full speed.
Good luck.

[roush]

Got my April pay statement today. Everythings correct. JPA is great.

[maniac55]

Standby for Wg Cdr caveats. When he says "fully functional", I don't imagine for one minute you are going to get 100% functionality. You will get a reduced application set of core functions, the rest no doubt will be classed as non-essential.

That pretty much covers it.

Now I only had 2 things to do on JPA this morning, sort out my Next of Kin data & enter my posting preferences, simple.

Granted, I have to say that the access speed this morning was quite good & I've finally been able to convince the system that Mrs M55 is indeed female & correct some of the other NoK info. However, posting prefs, not a chance.

The only part of the posting prefs that I was able to search was 'location', a post type list (i.e. Rearcrew on Kipper fleet) would be nice! Yes, I am a masochist, I know.

Still could be worse, the system could say it paid loads of wonga to me but not have received a penny in the bank (thankfully not me, but some poor soul I know).

[dwaynedibley]

I just found this on MOD Oracle.... http://www.modoracle.com

"RAF Takes Off With Joint Personnel Administration (JPA)

Monday, May 15, 2006

Source: RAF

On 20 March 06, the Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency (AFPAA) successfully rolled out JPA to over 48,000 RAF Service personnel throughout the world on time and on budget. The event marked the culmination of five years system design, development, integration and testing and bears testimony to a very strong partnering arrangement between MOD and EDS.

The sheer scale and complexity of JPA should not be underestimated and from the very beginning, the joint project team has called on the experience and expertise of a range of military personnel and IT specialists. The project has involved the extraction of data from over 80 different legacy systems, cleaning it and transforming it into new requirements to load into a commercial Oracle HRMS system. For more than 48,000 RAF personnel, spread across the globe, this has amounted to over 3 million rows of data.

With any project of this complexity, even with extensive testing there will invariably be a small number of technical issues to overcome when the system goes live and JPA has been no exception. Although the system performed within satisfactory parameters on initial roll out to RAF professional HR administrators, once self service users were granted access, the sheer volume of the early transactions caused system performance to slow to unacceptable levels. Whilst still allowing full access to HR professionals and restricted access to self service users a number of fixes were made to the JPA system. These allowed the progressive introduction of additional functionality whilst providing core processes and maintaining acceptable system performance levels. As a result of this fine tuning, both HR professionals and self service users now have full access to the system with no degradation to the on line service.

A true measure of the JPA system would be its ability to run the very first pay roll. This was successfully achieved and bank payments were made to RAF personnel on 28 th April as planned. Where there have been a small number of minor discrepancies caused by the migration of data from the legacy system to JPA, these have already been rectified or will be in May's pay run. These were clearly ‘one off' start up issues that have now been addressed. Great efforts were made to ensure that the small number of individuals affected were not financially disadvantaged.

The introduction of JPA to the RAF and later to the RN and Army, presents a number of challenges. One of the most important is the cultural change required by individual Service personnel. The MOD firmly believe that today's Service men and women will welcome the opportunity to take control of their own personnel administration through JPA and would expect to have the same, and in some cases better, HR resources and opportunities available to them as any civilian employee.

The provisional JPA roll out dates for the RN and Army were June and Nov 06 respectively and were within the JPA project time frame. In order to allow far greater integration with the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) project requirements, it was agreed by the JPA Project Board in Feb 06, that the rollout for the RN and Army should be more closely aligned with that for DII. As a result, the current plans are that JPA will be rolled out to the RN in Oct 06 and to the Army in March 07, although these dates are still subject to review and ratification by the JPA Project Board. This decision exemplifies a joined up and sensible approach to Defence wide project delivery and is not a reflection on AFPAA 's ability to deliver JPA.

JPA marks a huge leap forward for Defence, which requires not only an advanced technical solution, but a radical change for every branch and level of the Armed Forces. AFPAA have every confidence in the technical solution and are focused on delivering the quality of service on which our Armed Forces can depend and be proud.

"

I may have missed it earlier on in the thread but as it has todays date on it I thought I would repeat it here.

I particularly like the last paragraph, I certainly feel proud, mainly that I am in the Army, first time in a long time!!

[PompeySailor]

Only missing the bit about having all pigs fully fed and taxiing. If they had carried out full system testing, then they wouldn't be having the load problems, the pay run problems, the data problems, the migration problems, the configuration management problems and the internal PR problems.

If the people that produced this work of fiction were as good at IT as they are at spinning bull**** into gold, then JPA would be the true killer application that we are all waiting for. And it would make the tea as well.

[maniac55]

As this is a rumour network.

Several bods were seen parading at the cashier to draw funds on payday to make up for the fact that JPA doesn't quite understand 'Reserve Rights' (bit naughty as the difference is quite a few hundred quid). Moreover, there's no guarantee that they won't have to the same again this month.

Obviously, (to use the spin doctor speak) an isolated case :hmm:

[PompeySailor]

Sussed it! They are developing a module which will allow you to enter your loyalty cards, Airmiles cards, Tesco Clubcards, etc so that as you spend the money they pay you, you will accrue credits on your accounts. Once you have enough credits, then you will be deemed "payable" from your loyalty card accounts.

This way, you are duty bound to spend all your money so that you will get paid again. All those who fail to spend enough money will have money allocated to them from people who are misusing Airmiles accounts. Additionally, all those that are deployed with no access to the system will not be paid at all as they cannot complain or see their non-existent Pay Statements - adding more money to the pot for those that man the important Admin Centres. Simple really.

Once they have finished working out how to cash in Childcare vouchers, Working Tax credits and how to claw back the "bogof" purchases you make in the NAAFI, it will be a fully functional system, and Wg Cdr Whatsisface will be able to receive his gong without a trace of embarassment or hypocrisy. Well done Sir!

[Pontius Navigator]

SilentlyScreaming, are you a refuge from a different bulletin board? Did we meet there last year in the IT section before my system crashed me out?

PS, under a different name and certainly not Cromwell

[L J R]

Successful,
Minor Problems,
not financially disadvantaged,
small number of individuals



......all of the above had a different meaning whan I was in grade 8.

[Expensive Baggage]

Please, don't throw your hands up in horror that a 'wife of' has joined your forum to post in this thread. I'm as affected by JPA as the rest of you. Husb is often overseas, as he is now, with no access to JPA. So to be told that his payslip has still not arrived at his work, a week after RAF Innsworth say they received it, is most frustrating! I know his pay is @ £400 down for April, as I run the household accounts and have seen what was paid into our joint account but I do not know why. Nor are we ever likely to, if what I have read in this thread is anything to go by. Husb also has 3 outstanding claims for overseas trips yet to be paid and has told me he will not be asking for advances of rates in future, as it is too difficult. It seems we will be subsidizing RAF operations instead. Perhaps the 'good' Wg Cdr Field could take on board that I work FOR a charity, but that does not make ME one! I do not have a month's wages to spare to cover for his superiors' crass incompetence so I will whinge if I want to!

As a result, I wrote to our MP, complaining about the appalling JPA and 'capped actuals' set up and received a reply, dated 5 May. He had passed my comments to Adam Ingram and was awaiting a reply. I have e-mailed him again today, asking for an update.

I also wrote to the Daily Telegraph asking them to get a journalist to look into the story but they have not replied.

BTW. To the person who named 'He Who Shall Not Be Named', shame on you and mine's a large G & T. Cheers.:=

[Pontius Navigator]

Expensive Baggage, welcome. Good post not unlike some on other threads. Painfully accurate without being emotive. Exactly what your MP will need. Your MP was a good choice but don't badger him. Wait until you get an anodyne reply from Adam Ingram. Your MP will forward that to you.

Then pick it to pieces and go back at your MP. :}

Trouble is there is no backbone up there and too many with slope shoulders.

Hope no one re-writes your nickname. Anyway regards to Mr Baggage.

[SilentlyScreaming]

>>Pontius
Indeed thats me :>
I joined this forum whilst still at Innsworth, anyway, I'm now posting off topic really so I shall go back and hide in the corner.
I'd love to say I'm surprised by what has happened re. JPA, but I don't really think it has come to a shock to anyone at 'ground' level - seniority wise, not occupational physical altitude :>

[Expensive Baggage]

Thank you for your welcome, Pontius Navigator. I will let you all know what the outcome of writing to my MP is.

We have recklessly added to the chaos by just moving from a quarter into our own home. That has always meant at least 4 months disruption to pay in the past so we will have to see what mayhem JPA can wreak with the event. :sad:

The words 'Top Quality', 'Low Maintenance' and 'Complementary' were omitted from my nickname for ease of typing and go without saying, anyway. However, the words 'Rotty', 'The' and 'Rottweiler' could very easily be inserted should the JPA and 'capped actuals' pantomime not be sorted out, pdq.;)

[PompeySailor]

So, do we get an update from those who have failed to use JPA in the past as to it's current usability? Would be nice to know what they class as "fixed", and whether the illustrious Wg Cdr should be falling on his sword or accepting the plaudits.

[Miserable Old Git]

I’m very surprised this morning as I have managed to book leave and check all my details on JPA. My personal details are still wrong and the JPAC won’t correct them. They say it’s an HR issue and HR must contact JPAC to sort it out, which does not make sense.

Apart from that it all seems to work. What a strange day. :confused:

[stickmonkeytamer]

Just in case you wondered what JPA stood for...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8059167462&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

JAM PACKED ACTION!!! Who said JPA was a joke??? I think I've spoken with Samurai Jack a few times...

[South Bound]

Well guys, can't speak for everyone else, but for the moment whinging firmly stopped. Logon speed and accessibility seems good. Most of the functions that I have tried seem to work OK. It will take a while for all the pay errors to catch up (are they switching it off again to do the pay run for May?), but at the moment it looks fine.:oh:

Clearly we will all wish to whinge about how the functionality is different and not as good as the old systems, but hey, that is our right. It is a democracy after all and if we don't have a say in how we are managed because we don't have someone to look out for us then please let us whinge and moan as we see fit.

Bet they are looking forward to the first month's army pay run tho :E

[mbga9pgf]

Well guys, can't speak for everyone else, but for the moment whinging firmly stopped. Logon speed and accessibility seems good. Most of the functions that I have tried seem to work OK. It will take a while for all the pay errors to catch up (are they switching it off again to do the pay run for May?), but at the moment it looks fine.:oh:

Clearly we will all wish to whinge about how the functionality is different and not as good as the old systems, but hey, that is our right. It is a democracy after all and if we don't have a say in how we are managed because we don't have someone to look out for us then please let us whinge and moan as we see fit.

Bet they are looking forward to the first month's army pay run tho :E


Well does anyone know how I am supposed to increase DINCOME payments?

And I am still owed about £300 as a result of stupidly getting married and moving into married quarters at the same time as JPA was rolled out (am owed 2 months charges for single accom) !!!! :D :D

Oh, does anyone know how we are supposed to be paid LSA? I have a lovely box at the bottom left telling me how many days I have done, but no sign anywhere on my payslip about whether I have recieved payment for it!!!! :mad: :mad:

[South Bound]

Hey, like I said, it will take a while to get used to the system and the things that have changed. How would you have sorted these questions previously? Have you asked your HR Flt or the JPAC about it? If they can't help you, feel free to complain.

Never said it was all rosey, just that most of it was working. I'm still hacked off they don't pay claims in cash anymore, but that isn't going to change!

Hate to agree with AMP, but I agree that we are now at the stage we should have been on day one. Let's see how it goes from here...

[A2QFI]

The RAF has declared it will have its stalled human resources computer systems fully operational by the end of the week, seven weeks after it went live.
But the MOD still has to determine what the problem was before it can guarantee that the Joint Personnel Administration system (JPA) can be rolled out on schedule to the Army and Navy later this year.
The HR system, installed by EDS, has only been able to manage taxiing speed while engineers figure out what went wrong.
Wing Commander Trevor Field, a RAF spokesman and administrator, said he was unhappy with press interest in the delay and "bored" RAF "whingers" on chat sites like the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe), which he said make things appear worse than they are.
"It adds fuel to a fire that is now smouldering, and by the end of the week will be solved completely," he said.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Put some leave in which was nice. :)

Even better checked my balance and instead of taking it off the allowance it adds it on. :rolleyes:

I'm putting a years leave in so when I put my notice in I can have a year paid off. :)

[Almost_done]

Been 3 days now and still waiting the help desk to either , help , or get someone too do it. Due to a complete bails up on my personal details, and it would be on the ones I can't alter :mad:

[Where R We?]

You might have to wait on the phone for a long time, I hung on for 1hr 20 mins today! I had held for 30mins and thought b*gger this, I will see how long it takes to answer...When it was answered the apologetic girl at the other end said that she couldn't help as all she was doing was taking messages and someone would get back to me within 48 hrs.

Whilst this wasnt a major issue for me (other than reading some documents while holding), the problem revolved around leave entitlement, I will raise a formal complaint as 80 mins is definitely not 50 secs and these things need to be highlighted. I got the fax number for formal complaints from my OC PSF. One of the other guys in my office filed a formal complaint and within 24 hrs he was speaking to a person rather than leaving messages and waiting to get called back.

Raise the ante, see what happens.

[Roland Pulfrew]

You might have to wait on the phone for a long time, I hung on for 1hr 20 mins today! I had held for 30mins and thought b*gger this, I will see how long it takes to answer...
I will raise a formal complaint as 80 mins is definitely not 50 secs and these things need to be highlighted. I got the fax number for formal complaints from my OC PSF.

WRW

You couldn't PM me that complaints number could you? I had a total of 33 minutes on hold the other day trying to sort out an HTD problem. JPA hung up on me at the 12 minute and 21 minute points and when I finally got through the girl on the other end couldn't answer the query I had and that I should take it up with my PSF. She then advised me that there was no "complaints" option. :ugh: I wanted to put in a formal complaint as the system is not doing what it was contracted to do and we should all ensure that the complaints system is fully exercised.

[Ali Barber]

And for those of us overseas with no access to a JPA terminal and giving up calling the helpline after a 15 minute international call, how do we claim for the phone bills? Finally got a pay statement on 16th long after the charter arrived and now it is clear where they have screwed up. I just can't tell anyone about it and have to hope they will realise eventually.

And what exactly happens to EDS when they fail to meet the standards laid out in their charter? Oh well, it was only a target - and they missed! Maybe their top executives will only get a 90% bonus this year as a punishment.

[maniac55]

I now have a couple of guys working on det who both put in for an 'advance' more than a week ago. However, neither have received any dosh and one of which has neither a credit card nor the dosh in the bank to cover his expenses.

I would love to make a flippant remark about the company that actually pays the money (& that they look after CSA payments so well :cool: ) but right now I have more important things to worry about. I'd like to say that I knew this would happen & raised it at previous JPA briefings but for the poor bugger involved it doesn't mean Jack Sh1t.

Not only do I loose that guy's productivity because he is trying to chase his dosh but if he doesn't get it by the end of his det he's screwed!:suspect: From a 'Duty of Care' perspective I'm less than unhappy.

Its easy for us well paid smart arses to say that 'one should have a months pay in the bank' but back on 'Planet Reality' it rarely happens. Moreover, the guy is away for a couple of weeks & has naff all in the bank. As much as I would like to prove the point of 'I told you so', my first priority is to look after the individual concern & ringing JPAC has had no affect whatsoever.

Now I will re-iterate that I'm the first in the queue to have a whinge but, if we are going to have individual expenses, then everyone gets their own Corp card. If you abuse it, you get fizzed; or, if you go over the top, the overspend gets clawed back through your pay in due course. What you cannot have is people paying for expenses imposed upon them when they don't have the funds to do so.:=

[TheInquisitor]

Put in a travel claim. Paid into my bank within 4 days. Job's a good'un.

Whatever they did to fix it seems to have worked. Now let's see if they can get a pay run right. And give me a rank, instead of "Mr Inquisitor, The" - and a service number, instead of an "employee" number.

[MilSpFunc]

The AFPAA web site and customer care charter list e-mail, telephone, fax and postal addresses to send queries (and complaints) to so that should not be difficult to find wherever you are in the world.

[Where R We?]

The AFPAA web site and customer care charter list e-mail, telephone, fax and postal addresses to send queries (and complaints) to so that should not be difficult to find wherever you are in the world.
However, if you were deployed when the charter was posted to your home address you would be somewhat stuffed. (If there is an e-version of the charter, I apologise, I haven't seen one!)

[foldingwings]

They are trying to tell us something, chaps!

Pump JPA into Google and this is the first link that comes up:

http://www.j-p-a.co.uk/

The message is clear, there are other jobs out there without the F-Factor!:rolleyes:

[airborne_artist]

Pump JPA into Google and this is the first link that comes up:

http://www.j-p-a.co.uk/

And their mission statement is:

"JPA's unique aspirational culture and entrepreneurial teams are creating a multi-faceted international recruitment business, respected by our customers and competitors alike."

Sounds straight out of Innsworth? :ok:

[Ali Barber]

Maniac55 has hit the nail on the head. Most of us are just having a "whinge" because they replaced a working system with one that doesn't (yet - maybe). But, right now, there are some people in real hardship because of this and, not surprisingly, their mind is not going to be focussed 100% on the job. That is a flight safety hazard enforced on us by the people who will crucify us when something goes wrong! Somebody ought to have dusted off a copy of "distractions".

[D-IFF_ident]

FOI Enquiry Thank You


Your form will now be processed and a response from the appropriate department sent to you shortly.

;)

[MilSpFunc]

JPAC Enquiry Centre
16 Mar 2006
If you have a routine enquiry please contact our JPAC Enquiry Centre directly
I-SUPPORT
I-SUPPORT is available at your JPA Self-Service Terminal which you can use anytime


Email
FAX
MoD - Intranet
JPACEnquiryCentre (JPAC%20Enquiry%20Centre%5bx400:/C=GB/A=%20/P=MOD/O=RN/S=EnquiryCentre/G=JPAC/OU1=Centurion%5d)
MoD
94561 3586
Internet
[email protected] ([email protected])
Civilian
0141 224 3586
Note: For security reasons, sensitive information such as bank account details should not be given.

Letter
Telephone
JPAC Enquiry Centre,
Mail Point 465,
Kentigern House,
65 Brown Street,
GLASGOW,
G2 8EX
For urgent enquiries and changes to personal details for those without access to JPA self service.
MoD
94560 3600
Freephone
0800 085 3600
Civilian
0141 224 3600
Overseas
+44 141 224 3600

JPAC Enquiry Centre Normal Opening Hours
Monday – Friday
07.00 - 19.00 (UK local time)




(http://www.afpaainfocentre.dii.r.mil.uk/nlapps/docs/default.asp?fid=840#)

[Yeller_Gait]

A couple of interesting, but completely unrelated links

Try going to www.jpa.co.uk



"For More Effective Business"



or



www.jpa.biz



"THE VIRTUAL OFFICE FOR ALL YOUR BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION NEEDS"



Y_G

[Where R We?]

Thanks MilSpFunc, but none of those numbers allows you to make a 'formal' complaint about the system. They put you through to the helpdesk at JPAC who then have 48 hrs to get back to you with a query; I have 1.5 hours before my 48 hrs runs out for the query I placed on Wednesday.

The number I was given by PSF is not on that list and receives more attention higher up the food chain. I am not knocking the girls/lads at the end of the JPAC helpline, they are undermanned and uninformed of the issues at hand. Whilst they have increased the numbers of people answering the phone, it appears that the 'behind the scenes' numbers have not increased. Therefore the queue remains the same size, infact it has been made longer as instead of answering your query in 24hrs they have 48hrs. In my case where I held for 80mins and assuming it takes 3 mins to take a message, that meant there must have been 27 people in front of me for that operator and if there are 40 operators, that is 1080 people in the phone queue - how many man hours is that?

I personally am happy with the way the system is working for me as my claims and pay has been paid correctly, but this cannot be said for all the people in the RAF and to say that JPA is a success is something just shy of a lie (although it does depend on your definition of success).

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Still no pay statements for March or April, Apr pay run wildly incorrect. I raised an SR on 8 May which was "forwarded to the relevant department for further investigation". 11 Days later - nothing!!!!! Yesterday I asked for an update......surprise, surprise, still nothing!

To the people who thought this would be a great idea...I hope your next s**t's a hedgehog...:mad:

SBG

[Mr. Dodd]

Where R We, if you want to make a complaint, they will only accept it in writing. If I recall, the address is on the goood old customer charter and on the JPA web site. The office is down in Gosport not Glasgow.

[Where R We?]

The number I have is a fax number and they did ask that a fax be sent rather than something over the phone. Gosport would seem right with a number beginning with 023....... Just checked the back page of the charter under 'formal complaints procedure' and it is the same number.

[airborne_artist]

Gosport - HMS Centurion then.

Wikipidea says this about a centurion:

"Centurions often suffered heavy casualties in battle, generally fighting alongside the legionaries they commanded. They usually led from the front, occupying a position at the front right of the century formation. They led and inspired their men by example. They also sought to display the skill and courage that got them to their rank in the first place. It's for these reasons that they often suffered a disproportionate number of casualties."

So that'll be why they named the RN's pay and manning office after the Roman officer, because the pay staff always fight alongside the ...lead and inspire...display skill and courage...

Or something like that.

[Brown Job]

There is a way of emailing complaints about the JPA EC the address to use is AFPAA Support

[WPH]

I've successfully submitted two claims now, one T&S and one advance. Having had the advance paid in to my account and been on my trip I rang JPA to find out how to link my claim to my advance and I was told that they didn't know and to submit a query online!:ugh: Fairly basic stuff I thought, highlighting how poorly trained these people have been. I rang PSF and they said submit your claim, which will be paid then any advance will be taken out of your pay at the end of the month! In the meantime I get a month's interest on my advance! :DSounds a little strange to me, can anybody confirm that this is correct?

[L1A2 discharged]

I've successfully submitted two claims now, one T&S and one advance. Having had the advance paid in to my account and been on my trip I rang JPA to find out how to link my claim to my advance and I was told that they didn't know and to submit a query online!:ugh: Fairly basic stuff I thought, highlighting how poorly trained these people have been. I rang PSF and they said submit your claim, which will be paid then any advance will be taken out of your pay at the end of the month! In the meantime I get a month's interest on my advance! :DSounds a little strange to me, can anybody confirm that this is correct?

Yup, at the moment anyway. Had the advance - paid into bank within the 4 day rule. Did the trip - put the claim in - also paid into the bank inside 4 days. The excess will be recovered from the next pay run after the 31 day reconciliation period, so about 6 weeks interest on the dosh! :E

See also the "I'me not going on a det" thread.

[Almost_done]

If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

Nuff said on the subject for a while I feel

[The Masked Geek]

So, they think JPA is sorted do they?

Then let them answer this:

Why, when I phoned my HR admin this morning ref a pay error, was I told that the whole of todays payrun was being recalled because it was all bollox and that lots of "stuff" had been missed from pay-packets?

[Spacer]

Oh well, after being not paid properly last month, I have been checking this month, and I am 2 GYH short (both have been waiting to be paid, and one has been approved for 6 weeks), and get this.... my pay next Wed will be £400! Nice touch JPA :mad:

[FFP]

This month's pay statements out yet ?

HR staff said no when I called back to base .. .

[Where R We?]

Yes there are available online now.

[FFP]

Got this months and last months flying pay !!

Now LOA . . . .. . . . .

[SidHolding]

Saw my pay statement for May online today, before it strangely vanished after 1600?!?

Once AGAIN: No flying pay and basic wrong.

I was told in April I would be paid it at the end of the month, I wasn't.

I was told in the first week of May I'd be paid it at the end of that week, I wasn't.

I was told in mid-May I'd be paid it in the May pay-roll, looks like I won't be.

I've spoken to JPAC and to PSF (or HR or whatever), no joy. I submitted a Service Request on 9th May, detailing everything from pay, to LSA wrong, place of work incorrect etc and it's still marked as new!!! That means it's not even been read yet!!! The title is "April 06 Pay - Flying/Basic Pay incorrect.

I'm out of ideas. I don't know who to speak to, I think I've done all I can do along the proper channels. I also know of at least 5 other people who still haven't been paid flying pay!!!

I've also read the articles about how JPA is a success etc..... Well, not for those of us raiding our savings account to go food shopping!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[Ali Barber]

Will Wing Commander Trevor Field be popping round to SidHolding to ask to borrow a sword? Or even offer an apoloy? No, didn't think so.

[maniac55]

Sid

My every sympathies with your plight but, as I've encouraged others affected, you need to complain; otherwise the world of officaldom will say 'We've had no complaints so everything is OK'. There's no guarantee that your issue will be sorted but its the only leverage you've got.

All speilling mistakes are cos i went too a comprehensife

[D-IFF_ident]

There are, allegedly, 43 people who have not yet received April's flying pay. I am one, Sid makes 2.......

Oh, found this too:

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9A0A8169-C06E-4CA5-B1C4-216C37BF0D8B/0/reqmay06_03.pdf

[Stupid Boy]

Didn't get my flying pay on last months initial pay slip but got it on time following a further pay run. Assumed all would be well this time. How foolish of me! Flying pay included this time but at a lower rate than last time and have had a chunk taken back as JPA thinks (incorrectly) that my rate was wrong last month :=

[Scud-U-Like]

I'm sorry to interrupt this littany of woe, but, except for the initial 3-week hiatus, I have had no problems with JPA. While it is unfortunate some people have experienced pay deficiencies, I wonder how these compare with the incidence of pay deficiencies in a bad month, pre-JPA.

All in all, I find JPA to be a pretty efficient system. Sorry.

[The Masked Geek]

£400 down this month, guess the wife will have to put in a few (lots) of hours overtime again.

Told JPAC, PSF/HR etc. and got told not to bother them until after the pay re-run. Guess I'll have to wait until after the bank holiday now.

Bring back the mid month pay-chit!

[Avtur]

No PAYE or NIC shown on deductions, however some random number has been deducted to leave me about £200 shorter than normal (relative to a 30 day month). My HR bod has been told not to help with pay issues by his bosses and JPAC refer me back to my HR bod. I have raised an SR, but these seem to disappear into the ether.

Who is actually responsible for calculating and actioning our pay? Errors in pay of this magnitude and frequency is not acceptable under any system and If these issues are not correctly and promptly resolved, a formal letter will be on its way to the Staish.

[4fitter]

Like Scud-U-Like, after initial frustrations, pay admin appears OK and my slip does show NI & PAYE. Haven't had to do BSA or Disturbance yet so keeping many things crossed. Most of my competencies and educ, fitness, CCS are wrong and I can't change them but my desk officer knows the score. HAve given up on the request for info submitted many weeks ago.

[The Masked Geek]

Looks like a large base in Lincolnshire has started censoring posts on it's forums. Notibly, the one's critisising JPA.

[WhiteOvies]

Have just heard that according to JPA my boss is qualified to fly Harriers and Jags, despite being an engineer and never having flown in his life! He's just off to Coningsby to blag a trip!:\ If JPA says, it must be true!

[Party Animal]

SidHolding,

Believe me, I understand and feel your frustration. I am also one of those aircrew with no FP for the month of April nor indeed a payslip. I first complained on 2nd May and have had no useful feedback since although I am told that it should be correct on 31st May. My WO tells me that the subject was raised at a recent WO's conference where the assurance was still given that all aircrew were paid by the middle of may.

But just to cheer you up. I recently sold a property that I'd used an LSAP advance towards buying. MOD quite rightly put a legal charge on the property which means when the place is sold, they get their money back after the mortgage lender. My solicitor wrote to the MOD some 6 weeks ago and has still not received a reply. He is still suffering from the JPAC telephone hold and has got nowhere chasing up the issue. What this means to me is that I've got £45k sat in my solicitors bank that I cannot touch until the MOD has been paid back and obviously he can't do that until they tell him how much I owe them!!!

Best of luck to all on the next pay day.....

[GreenWings]

No PAYE or NIC shown on deductions, however some random number has been deducted to leave me about £200 shorter than normal (relative to a 30 day month). My HR bod has been told not to help with pay issues by his bosses and JPAC refer me back to my HR bod. I have raised an SR, but these seem to disappear into the ether.


Avtur, ditto. Are the PAYE and NIC supposed to be shown on the online payslip, or is it just a summary, as it seems to be?

Dont seem to have been deducted food charges this month - which is nice, as am at a PAYD stn, but still no refund of last month's.

Student loan deduction has doubled and then some from last month!

No sign of a paper payslip yet, but rumour has it that someone somewhere on this sunny stn in Beds has got one.

-GW-

[Husky007]

Well, Ladies and gents
Like my good friend Sid, and the many of us who are in the same chain as him I too have yet to receive ANY flying pay since the smooth ( cough cough choke choke) introduction of JPA

I spoke to JPAC and they assured me it would be in mid may? - Nothing

I spoke to JPAC and they assured me it would be in mays pay? - Nothing

I spoke to my Unit HR - Speak to JPAC they said!!!!!!!

I spoke to JPAC and they quoted one of these wonderful bulletins!!!
" We are aware that there are still an amount of personnel who are yet to receive their specialist pay namely flying pay, and those personnel will be contected within 48 hours of this bulletin by their HR staff"

That was sent out on 23rd May, JPAC say - wait and your HR staff will contact you but if you dont hear from them contact us on Friday morning. This I am sure will only be met by , contact your HR staff.

Oh and I too have had many SRs to JPAC disappear into the ether!!!

Is it me, or am I the only one who feels like I am a performing dog chasing my own tail, oh who by the way is very skint and has tapped into save to cover Apr never mind May!!!

Disgruntled!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Avtur]

Greenwings.

Had one last peek at my on-line payslip before leaving work and found that my PAYE and NIC deductions now appear on it. Unfortunately, so do two separate deductions for unaccompanied food (26 and 28 days worth), despite living out and having not been detached for any significant length during May.

Good luck.

[ZH875]

Avtur, Same here, I contacted JPAC, listened to lots and lots of music, and was then told that the Pay had been cocked up again today, and all should be ok when new payslips etc are done, so maybe another long wait on the phone tomorrow.

[mbga9pgf]

Avtur, Same here, I contacted JPAC, listened to lots and lots of music, and was then told that the Pay had been cocked up again today, and all should be ok when new payslips etc are done, so maybe another long wait on the phone tomorrow.

List of my experiences so far with JPA,

Treated like a tennis ball between JPAC and Handbrake House (bless them actually PSF have tried their absolute best)

Incorrect no of days for LSA

No Payment recieved for LSA

Charged £680 in a one-er (thought we could only get charged at 3 days per month for over-issues?)

Still, after 3 weeks of incessent trying, cannot get them to sort out my move to family quarters from single quarters. I moved in Feb, as of Mays pay statement, I am still being charged single accomm and food, even after no less than TEN phone calls.

Only recieved one feedback call after being promised 6 times (seperate occassions) someone would call after 48 hours, and only then after I had rang them non-stop for 2 hours to follow up.

Where is the leadership people? Oh thats right, these blunties responsible couldnt lead a wet turd out of a brown paper bag. PLEASE, PLEASE CAN I HAVE THE MONEY I AM OWED? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[SubdiFuge]

Write a letter to OC Admin and JPAC telling them they have 28 days to completely sort or you will take to County Court (Small Claims), citing unnaceptable delay in recieving pay.

[SidHolding]

Maybe I'm too patient, but I'll wait until pay day and see what I get. If, as I expect, it's still wrong then a letter of complaint will be my only option.

The most annoying thing is that I've had flying pay every month since Dec 98 and I've had no change of circumstances with the introduction of jpa! I'm wasting an awful lot of time chasing it all up too!! :ugh:

[Scribbly dee]

What we need to do is get rid of JPA and get a few SACs and a Cpl/Sgt in an office in handbrake house with a draw full of files and they could sort out our admin for us. They will sort of be carrying out services for personnel so we could call them Personnel Services Flight or abbreviate it in the time honoured fashion to PSF..........!!!:D

We were in the office today discussing whether any of our gapped posts were going to filled:confused: and whether we should sell the mess silver to reimburse our lost pay and noted that JPA is not actually secure. :eek: Apparently if it was then the URL would start https instead of http can anyone forsee some claims in the not too distant future.

I logged on for the first time and was going through the screens and came in the first few to the application to terminate contract page. Before I could stop myself I was half way through filling it in to save the pain of going through the rest of the screens before I came to my senses and thought I would carry on serving because I haven't worked for a bankrupt firm before and it beats the hell out of working for someone that cares or wants you to produce something during the day:ok:

I have now adopted a brilliant system. I only have one SAC working for me so she sends me stuff and then asks me if its OK. When I say yes, as I always do, she then logs on as me and approves it....bonus:ok:

[Chox Away]

mbga9pgf
Check out MichelleLM's message #573 (page 29 on this thread) part replicated here-
snip > You remember the good old days when they could only take money back off you at a rate of 4 days' gross at a time? Well, if you're not already aware, that's all changed.
You can now have up to 50% of your gross monthly pay (minus Income tax, NI Maternity Pay, Statutory Adoption Pay and Statutory Maternity Pay) taken off you in one lump. See a a little beauty of a publication called JSP 754 Ch2 Sec 4 for more details. <snip
Another stealthy change brought in when nobody was looking! :\

[ZH875]

Avtur, Same here, I contacted JPAC, listened to lots and lots of music, and was then told that the Pay had been cocked up again today, and all should be ok when new payslips etc are done, so maybe another long wait on the phone tomorrow.Logged on and guess what?!!,


yep you are all correct,:D

I still have deductions for unacc food. :ugh:

Looking forward to next month - Not.

Does anyone know why the PVR page is innacessible?

[Almost_done]

Does anyone know why the PVR page is innacessible?


Possibly over subscribed? :ugh:

[D-IFF_ident]

I waited the promised 48 hours for somebody to contact me about my flying pay. No call, no pay, no confidence.

[foormort]

sent off JPA manual form 1 May, no cash to date. Now have been told JPA does not or cannot read US$!! Claims have to be resubmitted to UK Embassy to check that claim has definitely not been paid and then resubmit same claim on UK Embassy forms!!!! What on earth over. I really feel for any HR Admin types picking up the fallout from this system.

[Mactlsm1]

Seems you are more up to date than me. I submitted a manual claim through SDLO for HTD (Apr) on 3 May. Contacted them yesterday and confirmed that they had received it and had forwarded it to JPAC on 8 May. (SDLO were V helpful) No cash seen yet.:( Also they did not mention the bit about checking with the Embassy about duplicate payments. (Nothing out of the Embassy about this either) Today I submitted my HTD claim for May - wonder when that will get paid :ugh:

Wouldn't be so bad except that before JPA (BJPA - if that's PC) the same claim was submitted to the Embassy and was in my US bank within 3 - 4 days. What a s**t system. If this is supposed to be an improvement then you can ram it. I know that this is a small whinge when compared with some of the problems talked about by the guys on here, but every little thing adds up to JPA being a load of c**p. How is it that JPA saves money by having to employ and "train" lots of extra staff for the JPAC helpline when it all goes to rats.

Best Practice ???????????

[fightingchickenplumb]

hey guys and gals

Just thought I would tell you my JPA woes, I applied to live the block starting on the 15th Mar (the paperwork was in a month in advance) this included my RILOR application, which I had to read out of the AP to the scribbly, since he was convinced I wasnt eligble. roll forward two and a half months and re-submitting my paperwork AGAIN and im still waiting on my money for my RILOR (or whatever its called now) add to that acording to the RAF and JPA I still live in the block. I cant change my details on JPA for some reason ( it times out when I try) so for each month am 270 quid down , but alas acording to the scribbly its ok it will get back dated, so that makes it ok, but it could be augusts pay packet before i get it.

Part 2

I had a paper leave pass from march entered on JPA by PSF and the dates were wrong so I looked on JPA for the leave cancellation button :eek: its not there, I phoned the not-so-helpful desk at JPAC as the computer directed me to,they took my details "someone will call you back sir" two more phone calls later and still no joy. When i went to book a days leave on JPA last night I discovered to my delight that its taken all my leave off me, so another phone call and "someone will call you back sir, and in the mean time speak to PSF,find out who is the JPA focus portal at your camp" although i dont hold out much hope of it,PSFs answer just stick everything on paper passes unitl its sorted:D

you really couldnt make this farce up, I know other people at work who had been re-engaged and were given P45s by JPA last payday, and one lads not had any pay packet for THREE MONTHS!!!!!! JPAC is in my experience useless and before anyone jumps up to defend it,I know its not JPACs fault but in my experience the JAPCs answer is to tell you they cannot change it from there end because they dont have that responsibilty, JPAC sounds more like your technical help for the web , than a centre to administrate perssonel and I realise thats not the fault of JPAC, its the clowns who dreamed up the system, 100million to apparently tell me to go back to the old system MOD brilliance

[fightingchickenplumb]

sorry just to add if the sharp end of the spear did there job the same way the shaft thats supposed to support us , there would be quite a few jockeys joining the martin baker club. however like all the other changes in the RAF, the system will work because , the high ups want to make it work, regardless of the real picture on the ground.

[Husky007]

Hi folks, once again been fobbed off with calls around the houses, however I spoke to a really helpful JPAC operator, they do exist, name was Becky, ,and she tried her hardest to sort me out, but to no avail, but she did give me numbers of supervipers and team losers in there, so thought i would share.

Now if you have a service request number feel free to call if not then dont cause they hang up like they did on me until I got my ref number.

Well here goes,
0141-224-3573
0141-224-3690

Mil number is just last four number with gptn infront.

If we phone enough am sure someone will listen!!!! Ok maybe not!

Good Luck:mad: :ugh: :mad: :ugh: :mad: :ugh:

[mbga9pgf]

mbga9pgf
Check out MichelleLM's message #573 (page 29 on this thread) part replicated here-
Another stealthy change brought in when nobody was looking! :\


Absolute CRAP.... Spent all afternoon sorting this one out with PSF... the charges referred to are Fines incurred as a result of punishment (ND's etc) which cannot be reclaimed at greater than 50% of your pay....

Right, absolutely top marks today to the girls and boys down at a certain Wiltshire PSF... they deserve muchos thanks. Sorted out most probs through true grit and determination today, so thanks again!

Oh, as for those two numbers above, I got so annoyed the other day about unanswered calls, that I rang the phone none-stop for 10 minutes. Until some poor cretin had the audacity to pick ONE OF THE ONLY TWO PHONES THAT SEEM TO BE SERVING THE RAF AT PRESENT, picked it up, then hung up on me (something to do with the electronic "service quality monitor perhaps, by "answering my call" and providing such a valuable service...) Needless to say I was RAGING at this point, proceeded to ring a complaint, to only be greeted by the tinny sound of a recorded "for training purposes" conversation with someone I am guessing was a supervisor. She still couldnt sort my admin problems out.

Oh and wait for the below to follow soon...


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139099&highlight=PAYD

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183710&highlight=PAYD

Now, I really AM raging!

Save our payslips? Next its going to be save our Squadron Bars as a result of the above! Coming to a mess near you sometime in 2008!!!

[rafloo]

I wouldn't compare PAYD with JPA. I haven't any experience of JPA yet but from what I can gather it stinks. Whereas PAYD is fab. Saving me a fortune. and Like it sayd on the tin...I only pay for what I eat....top

[Safety_Helmut]

Does anyone know if Southside is now flying a Tucano ?

S_H

[mbga9pgf]

Does anyone know if Southside is now flying a Tucano ?
S_H


No, but if he is enjoying PAYD, then he sure as hell will love the hiked bar prices when the contractors take over the mess in toto.... anyway, slightly off thread I feel.

[rafloo]

They already have mate and the only difference are that fags are no longer cheaper....everything else is that same price and like I say PAYD is ace....

In the old system you paid for the food whether you were there or not....and now, you only pay for what you eat. I dont eat in the mess and so I dont pay. Im saving money. How is that bad?

[mbga9pgf]

They already have mate and the only difference are that fags are no longer cheaper....everything else is that same price and like I say PAYD is ace....

In the old system you paid for the food whether you were there or not....and now, you only pay for what you eat. I dont eat in the mess and so I dont pay. Im saving money. How is that bad?


I will quote myself from a former thread. To be charged for single slices of bread, single condiments, and turn the officers mess into some cheap version of Mc somethingorother simply will not do. Now stop Trolling Southside. :suspect:

[5thMetatarsal]

Looking at the b@lls-up that is the JPA, I'm astonished that it hasn't made the papers, so I'm trying to write a newspaper story about it. trawling through the earlier posts, but I'd welcome details of any bad experiences (and good, I suppose). Anonymous, of course, although some idea of where you're serving might help, if possible. Thanks. And good luck....

[Vim_Fuego]

This is the one time I do not mind posting when there is a high probabilty of a journo stooging around a thread!!
Got my flying pay on pay run 2 last month. This month had some of it taken back from last month and this month i.e. they have lowered my FP rate. Also paid to live in for last month and this one..I don't by the way.
Got a reasonably helpful lass on the JPAC number but guess what... long past 48 hrs and no call back/solution. This is a sizeable wedge of my pay missing and I will be incurring charges if it is not sorted.
For the sake of lots of p**ssed off, overstretched people can some journo stop writing about the fact that Jade Goody has had a new hairstyle and report on something that really affects people...errr I mean us!!

[ExRAFAC]

This is the one time I do not mind posting when there is a high probabilty of a journo stooging around a thread!!
....SNIP...Jade Goody has had a new hairstyle and report on something that really affects people...errr I mean us!!

Any journo snooping round this thread would get completely the wrong idea. Nearly 700 posts, almost all complaining, are obviously spoof postings made by malcontents outside the Armed Forces intent on destroying morale and encouraging leftie newspaper articles. JPA is quite clearly the single most thought through, competently and professionally implemented piece of staff work ever done by the highly intelligent, considerate of the needs of subordinates, senior Officers of the military, since Hitler decided to invade Poland!

(BTW the definition of the word sarcasm can be found in the OECD between santa and spasticated)

[Phoney Tony]

Just checked my latest JPA payslips for May.

Oh Dear.

Basic Pay and Flying pay correct - Hurray.

Correction for double flying pay last month correctly made - Hurray.

Promotion grant - £103.15 - Thanks, but I have not been, and probably never will be promoted.

GPD Offset Taxable - £1014.30 - Even the nice lady at JPAC did not know what the abbreviation ment or why I had been paid the money.

Net result I have been over issued by about £1117.70 which, like the flying pay, they will recover in the future. The problem is every time they do this they recover nearly the full amount back whilst I only receive £1117.70 minus Tax. Thus I am out of pocket (nearly £200 for the over issue of FP last month) JPAC told me I will get the money back from the tax people at the end of the year!

Please, someone in MoD Coporate Comms ( I now you read this forum) inform CAS of the real impact that JPA is having.

In trying to sort out this mess I have wasted 4 hours of my time writing to JPAC and my units HR staff (Bless them).

JPA is impacting operational output.

JPA is having a negative impact on morale.

JPA has introduces changes in allowances etc which have not been widely advertised. Whilst this may not be a change in the letter of the law, with respect to my Terms of Service, I feel it has changed in spirit. I have been let down again by the high level management.

I encourage every RAF individual to complete a tax return this year to ensure that they get all the money back. This will be a significat load on the Tax office. I am sure they will be pleased!

[Krystal n chips]

This is the one time I do not mind posting when there is a high probabilty of a journo stooging around a thread!!

For the sake of lots of p**ssed off, overstretched people can some journo stop writing about the fact that Jade Goody has had a new hairstyle and report on something that really affects people...errr I mean us!!

Scant consolation to you I know, but I would suggest you get hold of the current Private Eye---and the previous edition----and read the little article at the bottom of column 2 in the editorial section-----explains a great deal IMHO. Not that this will come as any surprise of course. Sorry, I can't provide a link as there isn't one for this section of the mag.

[CommonSenseApproach]

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/raf_hr_fix/
The RAF has declared it will have its stalled human resources computer systems fully operational by the end of the week, seven weeks after it went live. :ugh:
Wing Commander Trevor Field, a RAF spokesman and administrator, said he was unhappy with press interest in the delay and "bored" RAF "whingers" on chat sites like the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe), which he said make things appear worse than they are.:confused:

[Confucius]

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/05/11/raf_hr_fix/
The RAF has declared it will have its stalled human resources computer systems fully operational by the end of the week, seven weeks after it went live. :ugh:
Wing Commander Trevor Field, a RAF spokesman and administrator, said he was unhappy with press interest in the delay and "bored" RAF "whingers" on chat sites like the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe), which he said make things appear worse than they are.:confused:

Can we arrange a face to face meeting between this W/C blunt monkey and everyone who's pay was wrong? What a tw@t.

[Specaircrew]

Seconded:mad:

[Mr C Hinecap]

Well of course we're bored - we've played all the 'waiting for JPA' games, listened to the hold music and upset all our local admin staff. What else are we going to do?? :rolleyes:

[D-IFF_ident]

Dear Trevor,

Sorry to whinge, but I'm bored. You see, I'm short £38.65 per day that the fully functional system has not yet paid me for flying last month. I have run out of money and can't afford to drive to work for the remainder of this month; so I'm sitting at home with nothing better to do than comlpain about your excellent system. Etc.

[StopStart]

Sorry if this has already been done but i stumbled across this (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/news_0605_08.html) rowsing horsecrap on the RAF website.....

"A true measure of the JPA system would be its ability to run the very first pay roll. This was successfully achieved and bank payments were made to RAF personnel on 28 th April as planned. Where there have been a small number of minor discrepancies caused by the migration of data from the legacy system to JPA, these have already been rectified or will be in May's pay run. These were clearly ‘one off' start up issues that have now been addressed. Great efforts were made to ensure that the small number of individuals affected were not financially disadvantaged."

Who are these deluded fools?

:ugh:

[Pristina]

As I have yet to receive the last pay statement (April) does anyone know whether May's pay statements etc will be any better? Or am i still assuming that the RAF produce these things!!:ugh: I have only called my HR people 6 times and been told the Apil pay statement is in the mail for April!!l :hmm:

[ExJAFAD]

Hello All,
My first post need somewhere to let off steam!!! Has anybody noticed the tax codes are wrong on the JPA pay statements??? At a guess I would say the code is 503L the emergency tax code. Phoned HR and JPAC and apparently they 'do not deal with tax codes and therefore I need to contact Inland Revenue.'

How then was my tax code correct prior to JPA now it is wrong, I have been told that all the RAF tax codes are wrong and all are on 503L incorrectly.

I cant understand how this can be allowed to happen, all personell are more concerned with pay issues and normal work has taken a back seat. Couple that with the time issue of actually logging onto JPA, finding an issue, waiting on the phone for at least an 1 hour and a 1/2 only to be told that we cannot help you. At least 1/2 a day has gone buy lost to inefficency and beurocracy. The old system had its faults but at least you had a friendly scribbly to try to help you not a faceless inexperianced telephone assistant that has not got a clue. If this were a civvy company heads would roll over this fiasco. Yet again common sense has left the building stage left replaced by a farcical system that to quote our ex boss'...is not fit for purpose...'.

Sorry bout that had enough,
:* :mad: :ugh:

[Stanley Eevil]

ExJAFAD says:
"My first post need somewhere to let off steam!!! Has anybody noticed the tax codes are wrong on the JPA pay statements??? At a guess I would say the code is 503L the emergency tax code. Phoned HR and JPAC and apparently they 'do not deal with tax codes and therefore I need to contact Inland Revenue.'
How then was my tax code correct prior to JPA now it is wrong, I have been told that all the RAF tax codes are wrong and all are on 503L incorrectly".


The personal tax allowance for the financial year 2006/7 is £5035, the standard tax code for this year (source: Inland Revenue) is indeed 503L.
Believe me, you do not have a problem.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/payAndInformation/pdf/Income%20Tax%20-%20The%20Basics%202006-07.pdf

[ExJAFAD]

Possibly but surely all personell shouldnt have the same ie lower ranks to higher ranks.

Also this form http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p7x.pdf says that the emergency code is 503L

Confused???????????????

[Stanley Eevil]

Possibly but surely all personell shouldnt have the same ie lower ranks to higher ranks.

Also this form http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p7x.pdf says that the emergency code is 503L

Confused???????????????


I would interpret `Emergency` as `default` in terms of tax codes. In other words, if you qualify for any special tax allowances (OAPs) then until the tax office allocate the correct code for your circumstances they might just use the default (emergency) code until the system has caught up.

[D-IFF_ident]

Check your tax code on your last proper (blue) pay statement. It was probably 483L - last year's code. I'm also on 503L - which I believe is correct. I am still missing my flying pay though... And I've not had a pay statement for May, and it is against the law for JPA not to provide one before payday.

[FFP]

D-IFF,

PM on it's way.

[navibrator]

How then was my tax code correct prior to JPA now it is wrong, I have been told that all the RAF tax codes are wrong and all are on 503L incorrectly.

NOte - My tax code was right. Incidentally, I got the right amount of money too. I wonder if there is any connection with having a wrong tax code and some of the other errors?

[Confucius]

My last 2 were 507L. I'm guessing it should be '7 to account for the uniform allowance? Then again I may have paid too much tax last financial year, but I can't think how as I have no 'external' income.

[endplay]

Don't want to sound Jack but whilst agreeing that it was a total clusterfcuk at the start (and for a few weeks thereafter) JPA seems to be doing the biz for me now. Availability has been "Green" for the last couple of weeks and I have my online pay statements for April and May. My tax code is 493L which should worry me (from reading the above threads) but I never understood the code to begin with so what the hell.

There are some irritating bugs that need to be addressed like not recognising shift workers for leave but hey, print it out, annotate the breakdown and stick it in the post. It's not life threatening.

Finally, any improvements didn't happen by magic. A lot of people (not just the guilty ones) have worked there socks off to get us this far and I, for one, am grateful. So thank you, you know who you are.

[Confucius]

Tax code is simply a 3 figure indication of one's personal allowance, thus 503 means one doesn't pay tax on the first £5035 earned per annum. 493 was the tax code until April 5th '06.

[Kitbag]

Possibly but surely all personell shouldnt have the same ie lower ranks to higher ranks.

Also this form http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p7x.pdf says that the emergency code is 503L

Confused???????????????

ExJAFAD, I think the last few posts have shown that you were wrong about your tax code, do you think you might apologise for not being aware of your own tax code. It was sent to you in a brown envelope at the beginning of the year, just like everyone else. Funnily enough everyone with a few rare exceptions has the same basic allowance (in simple English this is the bit you don't get taxed on). This changes each April, Chancellor willing! Seems that even the Revenue can be blind sometimes. Finally, the link actually says that the Emergency Tax Code remains at 503L. Read the smallprint before getting yourself involved in finances. Perhaps then instead of wasting everybody's time pontificating and complaining you might get on with your job. If you still have one that is. :ok:

Rant over:)

[stickmonkeytamer]

Just when I thought it could not get any worse... I tried to get an advance for going away in a few weeks. The JPA people say that advances are not given out any more. It will be paid on the last day you are away! The very kind girl said that I could "lie" and say that I was away for the week before to gain access to the cash, but that is not a very Officer-like thing to do (but neither was it very Officer-like for the f:mad: ker that bought into this system!

[navibrator]

StickMonkey

I can assure you Advances are still available. She does not know what she is talking about. Speak to your HR person; by the way - does anyone know if there is any comment/complaint line?

[ethereal entity]

I also have a problem with an advance. I am going away on det next week and have been refused an advance 4 times (although I AM entitled to it - nothing dodgy going on!). Boss has spoken to OC admin, but he is powerless in the face of JPA. Here's the real fly in the ointment...I CAN'T afford to go on the det without the advance (a 4 figure sum). JPA helpdesk were completely clueless, but did suggest I might have to take out a loan!!!! and claim it back later. If I do have to take out a loan so I can survive on a det I have been ordered to go on, the loan application will be copied to the command chain up to CAS, and to every newspaper editor in the country. Question is, can I refuse to go if no advance is forthcoming(and it looks likely I won't see a penny before I go)?:ugh:

[Confucius]

Can you not get an 'imprest' issue, work on capped actuals, and submit receipts/excess cash on your return? For all its faults that's the system we use at Waddo and it works quite well.

[SirToppamHat]

stickmonkeytamer and ethereal entity

Although I didn't have time to read it myself, there is some guidance on advances of expenses on the Marham home page that is accessible on the Intranet. If the cash doesn't arrive, simply don't go I dare ya!

I have always had a problem with the idea that advances can only be paid up to 80% of the total value. This 'Command Guidance' may be OK if the total is only a few quid, but when it gets into 4 figures it's simply not reasonable. Personally, I don't have any faith in JPA; I have so far submitted one clam for a total of <£14, which has caused a system violation (I claimed for a London Underground ticket to get from Kings X to MoD and back for £6), and was told off this morning for failing to report to the auditor (which I now know to be the Chief Clerk) to have my claim and receipts audited. What an absolute load of bolleaux.


STH

[navibrator]

I also have a problem with an advance. I am going away on det next week and have been refused an advance 4 times (although I AM entitled to it - nothing dodgy going on!). Boss has spoken to OC admin, but he is powerless in the face of JPA. Here's the real fly in the ointment...I CAN'T afford to go on the det without the advance (a 4 figure sum). JPA helpdesk were completely clueless, but did suggest I might have to take out a loan!!!! and claim it back later. If I do have to take out a loan so I can survive on a det I have been ordered to go on, the loan application will be copied to the command chain up to CAS, and to every newspaper editor in the country. Question is, can I refuse to go if no advance is forthcoming(and it looks likely I won't see a penny before I go)?:ugh:

Why don't you complete a Manual JPA form and get you unit staff to submit it.

[Brown Job]

So how did this month's pay run go? Have you all been paid correctly, got your flight pay and all your allowances?

The matelots and pongos need to know if JPA is doing the business:confused:

[maniac55]

ethereal entity,

We've been told that there is new guidance on advances, whether its a workround which has now been sanctioned or we were all given wrong info in the first place, pass. Please note 'told', I've yet to see the paperwork myself.

Put in a single claim, dated for when you need the money in the account. As happened with my guys, everything gets paid on the last day of your 'Date expense occurred', which is :mad: .

You would have thought that changing the payment date to the first day of 'expense occurred' wouldn't be too difficult & a tad more logical but what do I know.

[Cumbrian Fell]

I recently braved submitting an expense claim on JPA - only to find that it doesn't recognise the sovereign state of Jordan, let alone the capital Amman. The helpful JPAC person did suggest 'Oman' or 'Ajman', but apart from the fact that neither of these locations use the same currency (the gulf dinar is still a GCC pipedream), I would be uttering a document to obtain a pecuniary advantage (= Fraud). I had already spent over an hour with my JPA POC at my parenting station, who was equally flummoxed. It is a reasonably susbstantial claim paid in cash and credit cards, which I would like back! The SR remains unanswered. :ugh:

Oh, and by the way, my location on JPA is wrong, posting me to a spurious location based on a spurious ERS noticed of 9 months ago, resulting in FIA and RRA being held back, even though I live and work in town. Apparently my desk officer has to post me back into town (sorry, assign me), skewing the junior rotational list with the army (ha ha!).

[BEagle]

How on earth can anyone be expected to understand such utter administrivial nonsense? That sounds like pure Sir Humphrey Appleby Ministry of Administrative Affairs bolleaux.....

It's all sooo much easier in the real world!

[Vim_Fuego]

Oh great!!!
The JPAC helpine has shut down... Got the old 'due to unforeseen circumstances' excuse.
Right powers that be and anybody else of any importance that may be reading... I am short of money from the past two pay packets and due to moving houses under my own steam in April (timing unfortunate but I was too busy to think that JPA could get things quite so wrong) my outgoings have been horrendous. Because you have messed up my pay twice I am going to have to borrow some money...possibly off my parents as that is the easiest option and cheaper (and they are retired and not exactly minted so shame on you) or maybe a bank.
All associated with the invention and rushed integration of JPA I say to you this...I am totally miserable and do not feel like doing my job much at the moment, even though, when I am getting paid I usually enjoy it.
On a lighter note I have this vision in my minds eye of a future advert for some finance company where Phil Tufnell strolls in to be informed by the girl talking to a customer that he is in the RAF, has'nt been paid for months and just wants to pay his mortgage and get some Tesco action in...."Can You help him??" says Phil....

[Pristina]

Hi
Working at a secret airbase in West London and have yet to receive May paper pay statement, received April OK.

Anyone else not got May pay statement?

Lucky you, I still haven't received April's yet! :{

[abbotyobs]

It is the 2nd month in a row that I have not been paid any of money into my foreign bank account, with it all going to the UK. Its great to be working abroad for the RAF, you receive no salary and you cannot check anything, since you have no access to the JPA system, and you must hold for 10 minutes each time, on your international phone call to Glasgow!

[Almost_done]

Here's the latest on how to claim an advance on JPA:
Claiming an Advance
When claiming an Advance of Travel and Subsistence (T&S), the user must always use the ‘Advances’ option on ‘Creating a New Expense’. A refund (as opposed to an advance) cannot be claimed until after that expense has been incurred as users are legally required to show supporting paperwork (including receipts) where appropriate, if selected for audit. Disciplinary action may be taken against claimants who knowingly submit fraudulent claims for expenses that have not been incurred.
Claims for Advances of T&S should be submitted as a single claim for each separate duty regardless of the length of time that the duty is expected to last.
The JPA Expenses system has been reconfigured so that the ‘Date Expense Incurred’ can no longer be entered as a future date and must be entered as the date the advance has actually been submitted and NOT the date that the duty for which the advance is being claimed commences. ‘Anticipated End of Duty Date’ must be completed. Claimants are advised to include full details of all likely expenses in the justification box including the dates of travel. The sum total of these items should add up to the total advance claimed.
All claims for advances of T&S will be automatically sent to the appropriate authoriser for checking and approval prior to payment being made. JPA will display the following standard message on the confirmation screen:
"This Expense Report Contains Policy Violations. Use the warning icons to review. If necessary, return to the previous page to update an Expense line or to include a reason for the violation in the justification."
Some users are assuming that the advance amount exceeds an undefined limit and has been rejected or that they have entered something incorrectly. In fact, the advance has been accepted but because advances have no predefined limits they must be approved by the Unit Allowances Authoriser, who is responsible for ensuring that the claim for an advance is valid (i.e. the claimant is expected to incur expenses on an authorised journey iaw. JSP 752).
Recovering an Advance
Any future claims, regardless of the order in which they are submitted, will be subtracted from the balance of the advance until the total has been repaid. Any additional credits due will be paid as normal. If a claim is not submitted within 31 days of the Anticipated End of Duty Date, or if the total of all claims submitted is less than the amount of the advance, the balance will automatically be taken out of the claimant’s next pay.
However, if the individual submits ANY claim during the period in which they have an advance outstanding, the credits from this second claim will be used to offset the first advance AND the system will reset the recovery date of the advance to the day that this second expense claim is submitted. In short, full repayment of the remainder of the advance will be recovered via payroll.
Changing the Anticipated End of Duty Date
To change the end date if an individual is extended on duty, HR Admin will need to contact the JPAC EC and request the back office to action a change. A suggestion for how units submit this request is for the individual to request a further advance to cover them for the extended period using the manual JPAF016. When Unit HR Admin forwards the spreadsheet JPAF016A they annotate in the column titled ‘Additional Information (Unit HR Administrator to Check that Mandatory Information has been included)’ that they require the previous advance end date to be amended to show the same end date as this second advance. This only works if an individual submits a manual form. If this process is not used then Unit HR Admin will have to submit an iSupport request on behalf of the individual requesting amending action to change the end date

Glad you cleared that one up then :uhoh:

[Hueymeister]

Well, went to HR (PSF as was) today to have my £7.22 claim audited. Now it took an hour of my 10 hr working day, so that cost £15 to get to HR, discuss it and get back to my proper job. You could see that the guys in the HR dept are so cheesed off with JPA. I asked, 'so how do I know what to claim for in the future?' he replied with a wry grin 'you'll have to read the JSPs Sir.' I have barely enough time to read all the JSPs I have to to be current in my real job!!! It's obviously another way of reducing costs so we don't claim all we're entitled to....buggers!

[PhoenixDaCat]

I claimed for a London Underground ticket to get from Kings X to MoD and back for £6
STH

Tut tut. a return (or rather a day ticket) is only £4.90. £1.10 over spend!

[mrwickets]

Phoenix, off-peak is £4.90; its £6 when post people go to work! I suppose flexible working could provide quite a saving though - off to get my GEMS form!:}

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Make sure you are claiming your LOA.

For the transport fleet guys here and anyone else concerned.

Make sure you are submitting your forms, JPA H001 to your HR staff for all night stops.
As LOA is no longer paid as part of your subsistence you need to claim.

Thankfully our HR admin person is switched on and all our guys have received their owed LOA payments in this months pay.

It means paperwork when you get back from route but its worth quite a few quid.

[Yeller_Gait]

So not only do you have to spend a lot of time trying to submit for an advance before going on det, then a lot of time trying to successfully complete a claim on your return, but you also have to claim for LSSA and LOA separately.

Looks like I will be keeping busy on my return for a few days thanks to JPA. It is also nice that I have now finally received my JPA advance, 3 weeks after submitting the claim and 5 days after starting the det.

Has anyone actually had JPA claim money back out of pay packets yet, because I somehow feel that the advance I applied for may stay in my bank account for a while.

Y_G

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

LSSA and LOA are all on the same form.

However each nightstop on a long route has a different LOA rate so 1 form for each stop is required. :ugh:

JPA is turning into a paperwork generator.

[Muppettmayhem]

Do you have to apply for your LSA? I was on det when my LSSA stopped on the 31st Mar, got back to my parent unit on 18th May and was told by JPAC that LSA would be in my next pay packet....no surprises for guessing that it wasn't.
It's funny that when you owe the RAF money the p/work is generated straight away and deducted before you get chance to blink, but when they owe you money it takes months and god knows how many trips to PSF or HR or whatever they are calling themselves these days to try and sort it out.
Also whilst we are on the subject of pay, last April my pay was messed up and they put an extra £800 in my pay but promptly took it out again in the same pay, but I was taxed on the whole amount including NI which left me £230 short, when I queried this I was told to contact Glasgow who in turn told me to contact my unit admin who then said I had to claim a tax rebate through glasgow who told me they could only give me a rebate if i left my current employer which I thought was a bit drastic for the sake of £230. In the meantime admin gave me an advance of pay to cover the £230 which was taxed again, then promptly took it off me again in the next months pay(the whole £230 including what I had paid to the taxman). Eventually I was told by OC PSF that I would get it back in payments spread out over the next year, which i haven't, but to be honest I cannot be bothered now to chase up as they cannot be bothered to do their job and they are all totally inept and cannot be bothered to get off their shiny a:mad: and help anyone..sorry for the war and peace epic for my first post but even before JPA they couldn't be a:mad: to do their jobs properly and things will never change or as long as I have a hole in my a:mad:

[Al Fresco]

This is the 3rd month in a row that my pay has been incorrect.

This is unacceptable.

I hope senior officers are taking note!

[Jobza Guddun]

This is the 3rd month in a row that my pay has been incorrect.
This is unacceptable.
I hope senior officers are taking note!

Perhaps they will when the first of them gets redressed. I think I would have looked into it if I had pay issues like some here. About 8 years ago I found myself in a similar situation to Muppetmayhem, and after 8 months it was resolved seemingly only when I threatened to redress the OC of the pay department at PMA! :*
I'm missing LSSA for a det in March, small fry compared to other peoples' woes, and have also encountered a "defensive circle" between PSF and JPAC.
What a load of crap, but at least one particular ACM has done OK out of it.:yuk:

[C130 Techie]

Having previously waited 23 days for a claim to be paid.

Arrived at new unit on posting (sorry re-assignment) on Tuesday 30th May. Now eligble for HTD instead of GYH. Amazed this morning (2nd June) to have already received a supplementary payment into the bank for 2 days HTD 30-31 May.

Just worried now that I will be charged for abated food at the end of the month.

[4fitter]

Was fortunate enough to be briefing a 3* yesterday when he asked about JPA and the effects on me and my staff. In a measured and calm manner I told him I was a policy violator, now had to have my claims physically checked by a clerk I don't know, that I refused to give my wife's (partner :yuk: ) date of birth on the NOK (emergency contact) details, that my competences and education are all wrong but can't be changed but they form the basis of appointing, I'm dreading submitting impending BSA (CEA) and disturbance.

But I'm lucky as I do not face any impending dets or OOA and I'm fortunate enough to have a little emergency cash and I have constant access to to the interweb and I can plan my day around JPA at my convenience. SAC/Flt Lt Snooks, however, does not have this luxury and the constant sight of a false green on-line JPA and soothing words from 'experts' or get back in your box whingers from Trev does little to endear.

That I, a relatively senior bod chose to be critical surprised him but as he has the ears of those in the Centre, he promised to pass on my comments. I trust the man and will dispassionately press the evidence, from my perspective, to the appropriate grown ups.

I have promised that my boys and girls will not be out of pocket. So far, we have been lucky.

[SidHolding]

Well, no flying pay again, and my basic pay rate is wrong again!!! I'm going to write a letter to OC Admin tomorrow as I don't know what else I can do :ugh:

[peppermint_jam]

Sorry about the late notice but the JPA disaster has made page 34 (i think) of the mail on Sunday. Apparently all the problems have been ironed out according to the Wg Cdr interviewed. That's a relief!!

[dallas]

If the Wg Cdr who was interviewed was referring to system availability and speed, I think he's for the most part correct. If it's anything else, he's clearly got the wrong end of the stick and is destined for greatness.

[Almost_done]

Here's the article in full. From the MoS

New RAF computer has crash landing
THE RAF has been hit by a crippling computer crash that has left thousands of airmen without wages and expenses.
Pilots and ground crew in Iraq and Afghanistan are among those affected. A new £100million system, introduced by former Defence Secretary John Reid and designed to simplify paying 48,000 RAF men and women around the world, failed on launch two months ago.
Defence Ministers wanted it to cover every member of the Armed Forces within months. Instead the RAF has had to organise emergency pay-runs to help staff and their families.
The Joint Personnel Administration system (JPA) was designed to be fully interactive, allowing airmen to access their affairs online.
But despite a five-year project between the MoD and the system’s supplier, US conglomerate EDS, the sheer volume of users logging on to the network caused it to crash.
Last night an RAF source described the situation as ‘chaos’, adding: ‘This was to be a moment of glory for the MoD but it has been a disaster.’
RAF spokesman Wing Commander Trevor Field said: ‘Everyone affected should now have received any missed payments.’



Nice to see Wg Cmdr Field painting a happy picture.
You see Sid, you must have been paid he said so.:ugh:

[MilSpFunc]

It will be good to see what spin the staff at DCDS (Pers) put on this one!

[ZH875]

Just discovered a payment into my bank:) of an amount not recognised, it is more than what I am owed, wonder when they will claim it back.:ugh:

[BEagle]

That bloke Trevor Failed seems to have the same level of ignoring-reality optimism as poor old 'Chemical Ali'.....

‘Everyone affected should now have received any missed payments.’

Of course they should have, Trev me old china, but have they?

[Shadwell the old]

Having left for the second time in Feb after 5 years as FTRS, I was still owed LSSA for a months det in the sun (West not East). I was told that it would be paid at the end of Feb with the pay run (even though I left at the beginning of Feb). In the meantime got a bill for £5 sent to my home address with a dire warning if not paid within 14 days. Silly boy - paid it. End of Feb, guess what - no LSSA. Then told it would be paid at end of March - again no LSSA. Again enquired to be told it would be paid through JPA and that I should apply, although not entitled to a password! Recent enquiries suggested I should contact them again if not paid by the end of July.

What are my chances of getting the money?

Small claims court here I come!

Shadwell

[ChezTanker]

At least a small claims court action would shame the system. :ugh: Our hard working HR staff are working their socks off trying to help folk but finding out how to do simple things like MUSA (now LSA) has been a mare. Don't ask about split pay to a foreign bank - easy before JPA.:sad:

[Guernsey Girl II]

We had the people who collect urine for a living at ISK today. The Adj had to manually select the random people for testing….. You guessed it JPA can’t do it., (but SAMA, you know that piece of junk we switched off A WEEK BEFORE we found JPA didn’t work, could):ugh:

[Fitbin]

Hi there,
I've just joined the fun and wondered if anyone else knew that JPA was designed by the same "reputable" people as the Tax Credit System. All of a sudden the future looks........ we'll wait and see.

[SidHolding]

Well............ I haven't been paid correctly. My basic is still a level below what it should be and I've not received a penny of flying pay since March!!

May place of work address is still wrong despite many calls and SR's (email type thing). I got my wage slip today that had been sent to my old unit. I was surprised to see there's more info on the printed version than is available online?!?

Spoke to my HR rep today, (and to be fair, she's very helpful) she explained that the problem is going up and up the chain and like me, many other ex NCA who are now commissioned are affected.

I'm off on det soon and my LSA days are incorrect, so I know now that I'll get paid the wrong rate of LSA, if at all :{

I'm quite tired of chasing all this to be honest......... But I won't give up.... With that in mind, what do you reckon are good odds for it being sorted by the end of June? :rolleyes:

[akula]

1000/1


ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[cooheed]

Am currently being paid (thankfully) but off the wrong budget but who am I to complain..... unless under JPA, they claim it all back off me and tell me to claim..........etc etc. Paperless office?? Don't know about anyone else, but all the pay chits coming my way require central reg. staff or whoever to trawl through paper records and annotate in biro where I work! :eek:

[Brown Job]

You have got to love that Trevor, just like some of ours he probably has a 1st Class Honours Degree in Bullsh$t (Bullsh@t) from the Alastair Campbell College of Spin.

Today we brown jobs could'nt even contact the EC it was too "busy". Let's hope the MoD are too busy to pay AFPPAA this month's dosh.

[Rather be Gardening]

Another little JPA wrinkle. Found this on the RAF Club website - I don't think it's widely advertised elsewhere. If you want to be able to claim actuals when staying at the Club from here on in, you have to book through CHBS. Otherwise you could be substantially out of pocket as the PAHA rate won't cover the cost of staying there.

On duty in London and need overnight accommodation? WEF from Apr 06 the introduction of JPA means that the AP3392 Vol 3 Leaflet 108 details are only applicable to Reserve Officers.

The new Tri-Service Regulations for Allowances state that Service personnel who are
members of Service or Civilian Clubs may choose to stay in these clubs, which can be booked through the CHBS or direct by the member. However, the Service person may claim actual expenditure only when the accommodation is booked through the CHBS. Otherwise, reimbursement is limited to the MOD PAHA NS limit.

The key thing is that CHBS must make the booking for the individual to claim the 'actual' costs as opposed to the Private Arranged Hotel Rate (which is capped). Current PAHA rate is £53 for B&B!

[Hoots]

Will be interesting to see if they get the switch over to PAS correct next month.

Does anyone on the automatic home to duty think they're getting a good deal? Am interested as they have switched me over from the trusted manual system because I make 15 or more journeys a month, before going OOA and it being stopped for that.

Is it just me or has JPA and JSP752 sneaked a lot of changes (cutbacks) in. Then as mentioned in another thread there is the capped actual. I understand that they are considering bringing in In-Flt rations into the Daily Subsistence equation. Also trying to get rid of imprests and get you to apply for an advance on JPA before going on det, then you have to change the pounds into the local currency and claim the exchange charge through JPA.

Sure makes you appreciate the old system.

[Ali Barber]

Why is it that everyone else is expected to have a full working knowledge of the admin regulations, when the admin section does not have to have a full working knowledge of JSP 318? I know this issue with JPA is not their fault, but when it finally gets to work .........

[Ginseng]

Probably because JSP 318 has been obsolete for quite a while now! Try JSP 550 (and 551, 552, 553, 556 etc).

Regards

Ginseng

[Almost_done]

CASWO's Brief tomorrow, any questions lads and lasses?

[Ginseng]

I see from Hansard that Mr Cameron asked the Secratary of State, at Defence Parliamentary Questions on Friday 2 Jun, a compound question alluding to the problematic introduction of JPA to the RAF.

Mr Watson, in replying for SofS, told Mr Cameron that there had been very few problems, and no official complaints. It is all, apparently, a remarkable success story due the 5 years of development and extensive testing and the very strong partnership between the MoD and EDS.

Apparently, so far, it has only cost the taxpayer £118 Million.

Good God.

Regards

Ginseng

[fightingchickenplumb]

CASWO's Brief tomorrow, any questions lads and lasses?

whats the meaning of life? well you will probably get a better answer to that than anything else you ask him lol, last time we had a brief from the airship responsible for JPA, the conversation was "did you attend the JPA briefing?" "no sir" "well its really the most important thing you can do, your manager should have made sure you were there" what was the task that prevented me attending, ach it was only prepping a jet for QRA.

[Ali Barber]

From the Telegraph online: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/06/utax.xml

A Commons Treasury Committee expressed concern about a £71 million fine imposed on the American computer giant EDS, which appeared to partially reward the firm for its failure to install a network to deal with the tax credit system.

EDS agreed to pay the Government £71 million after the original IT system it installed proved unsatisfactory. It later emerged that £26.5 million of that money depended upon EDS winning other government contracts.