RAF JPA Rollout

[Ginseng]

I'm not sitting here with JSP 752 in front of me, but so far as I can recall the difference in eligibility between senior and junior rate for years 7 and 8 hangs on whether the school charges the same "senior rate" fees for those years as it does for the following years. If it does, then to the best of my belief you are entitled the the senior rate of CEA commensurate with the rules. However, if it doesn't, your entitlement is only to the junior rate. If we are talking about children who will move from a "prep school" to a senior school at 13, even though they may be essentially on the same site and identified as two parts of the same school, it may be even more complicated still. A small amount of homework should provide the answer.

Regards

Ginseng

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng,

My school charges a higher fee for years 7 and 8 than for years 6 and below.
£4000 per term for year 6 and below against £4700 years 7 and 8.

Currently getting 2 lots of lower rate.(2 x £3650)

[Ginseng]

Okay. Then I think you may have a case for Senior Rate, but I am not 100% sure. It may well depend whether the charge for years 7 and 8 is exactly the same as, or lower than, year 9 and above. I'll do some digging over the next few days and try to find out.

Regards

Ginseng

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng,

Ok, thanks for having a look.
The school is a prep school therefore only goes up to year 8.
After that it is a change of school onto secondary boarding, Year 9 onwards.

Best regards,
:ok:

[Ginseng]

I am looking at JSP 752 Edition 1 dated 1 Jun 06. Adimittedly it is not the most current edition (4?), which I can't check until next week, but I do not think that Chapter 9 (Education Allowances) has changed significantly since Edition 1. Quotes:

DEFINITIONS

09.0109 Stages of Education. For the purpose of CEA, a child's education is broken down into 3 distinct stages set out below. the age of the child at which each satge commences may vary with the school attended but in general, junior or preparatory school ceases between the ages of 11 and 13...... (my bold)

09.0203 Rates and Conditions of Payment. The rate of CEA(Board) is determined by the stage of education being undertaken .....

d. Different education allowance rates apply for preparatory and middle/senior schools. Junior rates will be paid for children attending primary, junior or preparatory schools. Senior rates will be paid for children attending secondary/senior schools. Where, however, a school covers more than one stage of education and has asubstantial increase in fees for those entering Year 7 (normallt age 11/12), and there is evidence that the National Curriculum is being followed, the Senior Rate of of CEA(Board) will be paid fromthe beginning of year 7 (start of Autumn term). Schools which do not increase their fees in year 7 will not attract the senior rate at that point. The appropriate rate of CEA(Board) payable is indicated as a code on the Accredited Schools Database (ASD) and any questions on entitlement should be staffed to JPAC Pay and Allowances Casework Cell (PACC).


Seems to depend on whether your children are attending the "same" school which covers both preparatory and senior stages. Whether this means under the same roof exactly is not abundantly clear. However, you now have the information on which to base further questions. I will check the latest version for any pertinent changes next week.

Jesus! Reading JSPs late on a saturday night! I must be a sad b*****d!

Regards

Ginseng

[SirToppamHat]

Ginseng

You may be a S-B (your words not mine), but thanks, it's much appreciated. I suspect I am about to be over-issued as the charges at my sons' school do not increase in years 7 and 8 (though I will be suggesting that the Bursar has a look at it!). I will simply stash the money away and await the inevitable note of return.

It all seems so trivial when compared with the woes of our friends and their families at Kinloss just now.

Regards

STH

[tablet_eraser]

I've been over-issued with pay 3 times over the last few months. Despite highlighting this to JPAC and HR, no action has been taken to recover it. So, it's currently tucked away in an ISA earning interest until they take it back. There seems to be no way to repay the money with a cheque as under the old system. If they're so determined to make me keep more money than I'm owed, so be it!

[Rev I. Tin]

Yes you are sad, but thanks a lot.

Armed with that info I will contact JPAC to get through to PACC. I was advised by the Service Childrens Education people at Upavon that years 7 and 8 at my school is graded as Level 4 on the ASD. Hope that's good!

[Ginseng]

I wouldn't be surprised if you find you are entitled to the higher rate, because it seems it should have been driven by whatever marker has been placed against the school in the database, which is not something you can influence. As regards your last comment, I absolutely agree, but even in tragic circumstances the rest of life has to go on.

Regards

Ginseng

[Ginseng]

JSP 752 is now up to DII Version 4 dated 3 Aug 06.

The section 9.0203, sub para d, which I qouted from on Saturday now contains the following extra words, inserted between "....at that point." and "The appropriate rate ....":

"However, when a preparatory school ending at Year 8 (age 13) follows the National Curriculum, increases its fees at Year 7 (age 11/12) and considers that its final 2 years equate to the first 2 years of a senior school, the school will not attract the senior rate of CEA(Board). As a child would not be able to complete the senior/secondary stage of education at that school, the entitlement will only be to the junior rate of CEA(Board)."
(all bolds are mine).

I suspect that this is significant in at least one of your cases. I'm not sure how this rule would be interpreted where a prep school was associated with, but identifiably separate from, a senior school as part of the same umbrella school organisation, and the normal practice was for most of the prep school children to pass on to the senior school. There might be an exceptional case to say that the children were then completeing their secondary/senior stage of education within the same school, but that is a question you will have to put to the experts!

Bad news, I suspect, but I hope this helps.

Regards

Ginseng

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng,

Thanks for the clarification. Officially yes, that new ruling affects my eldest, however, headmaster informed me two parents have successfully contested it and received a manual payment at the higher rate.

Awaiting the call back from JPAC PACC.

Thanks for all your help.

[airborne_artist]

MJ - which paper?

[Statty]

MJ - which paper?

It may well have been read on a train though on a Sunday I doubt.

[Statty]

A pat on the back to the JNCO who got a scathing letter about JPA published in one of the UK Sunday papers. :ok:

Though Mike that may be what he deserves what do you honestly think he will get?

I suspect a 1-way/no coffee/hat on type situation. The only question would be who does it. Seems the typical way things are going..........<img>

[tgarden]

Some more ministerial answers on JPA can be found in the Recess Hansard (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm060904/text/60904w2257.htm).

[Farfrompuken]

As a member of the 'Underpaid' column for the last 4 months, I find it hard to believe only 74 others were underpaid in July (also underpaid Aug too).

I KNOW there is a bug in the system that if you are elegible for GYH(M) allowance and recently been on det, you will be PAYING your GYH(M) as a deduction rather than receiving it. They still haven't fixed that bug.
I bet you there's a few in that boat.

I'm only owed about £800 now, but I'm still paying for a loan I took out to cover me when I didn't get paid in July. Won't repay till I get all my dosh. RAF will foot the bill for interest and charges for sure.

I am now looking to do my ATPLs at the first opportunity as I stated before, I will not work for an outfit that doesn't pay me correctly and on time. Good luck RN!!!

Truly pathetic.

[SirToppamHat]

I am sorry, but I simply do not believe those figures for July.

Still owed £13K CEA/BSA, due tomorrow (allegedly), but they said that last week and the week before. Current overdraft £4,000. QR1000 Report in process - have apologised in advance to the Staish, but it's the only way I can get the O/D fees back; he agrees and is not holding it against me personally.

A farce. Heads should roll, but reading that poppycock in Hansard you would think all is well with it. Poor, poor RN; I thought that the Senior Service would have the good sense to tell EDS to stick it until it is ABSOLUTELY SORTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STH

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

And neither do I!

I discovered on 21 Jul that I was about to have £733 deducted for no good reason and boy was I wrong, they not only stole that off me, but took another £663 ( but gave me a credit of £530). I reported it to JPAC and they said no worries it'll be sorted by end of August. Stuff that I thought and submitted a formal complaint to AFPAA as there was no method to give a mid-month payment. Along came the August pay day and the buggers took another £600 with another £733 showing as a outstanding debt to come out of Sep's pay.

Have not recieved any reply to my written formal complaint and having gained some info from JPAC (they haven't actioned the pay amendment or my complaint) I submitted a redress today.

I guess it'll get me a 'chat' with the Staish, but I couldn't care less as this sorry tale has been one of the last straws (the other is a spat with Defence estates and MHS) and I'm going to submit a PVR in the NY.

Sad really after nearly 20 years but it won't get any better I'm sure..

HPT

[Farfrompuken]

STH,

with you, myself and a good chum of mine, I've identified 1/25th of those who have been underpaid in less than 10 seconds!!

I think we're in good company.....

As I said, mine's a small debt, but no matter how small, one's employer is obliged to pay up or faces gross breach of contract. I had to work hard to get it down to such a small level.

We ARE all volunteers, but that does NOT make my work charitable!! I have mouths to feed and a mortgage to pay. However, I'm not so desperate to have to put up with this, thankfully.

I love my job, but my trust in the system has evaporated. I feel totally undervalued as an employee. What happens when I'm OOA for extended periods and I don't get paid then? The RAF have some serious work to restore my faith. Failure to do so will result in me seeking a new employer. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that.

[SubdiFuge]

Hansard quotes 227 overpayments and 258 underpayments in June. The extract from AMP note of 28 July would seem to contradict this and says there were 650 pay errors for that month.
PTC/186/CINC(1491/06)
28 Jul 06
Stn Cdrs
Copy to:
AFBSC
MA/DCDS(Pers)
All RAF 2* Officers
All RAF 1* Officers
RAF JPA ROLL-OUT UPDATE
1. I fully recognise that the introduction of JPA to the RAF has had many more problems than were envisaged. I truly believe that the RAF did everything possible to prepare itself for the delivery of JPA and I know that significant numbers of personnel have worked tirelessly to overcome the difficulties that we face. However, the fact remains that it is an immature product and much work remains to be done. That said, when I consider what has been achieved already, I am in no doubt that JPA will provide the level of service we require for the future. This note provides background to current JPA issues and explains what is being done to resolve them. I have provided a similar text for publication in the next issue of RAF News.
2. JPAC Enquiry Centre. The Enquiry Centre is the ‘decisive point’ which could unlock many of the current difficulties. Arguably, any new IT system of this size will have its problems. However, these have been compounded by the inability of the JPAC Enquiry Centre to provide the level of service required. With over 5,000 requests outstanding, much work remains to resolve the problems (although we know that some of these 5,000 enquiries have been submitted 4 or 5 times in an attempt to get a reply). Only when this backlog has been removed, which should be by Sep 06, can AFPAA’s customer charter standards of timely response be achieved. It is worth noting that the Enquiry Centre began with a staff of 35, it now has 55 and will increase to 90 in the Autumn when the Royal Navy plan to come on-line. We expect a ‘steady state’ hit rate of some 60 RAF enquiries per day compared with nearly 190 at the moment. RAF staff are already supplementing the JPAC back office and will be there until at least the end of Aug; in recognising how important it is to fix this, a further 6 RAF personnel will be detached to assist for this period. These SACs and Cpls are doing an excellent job in helping with the clearance of outstanding queries and providing a level of Service knowledge previously lacking in the Enquiry Centre.
3. Training. The training provided to RAF self service users and HR professionals has not been good enough. A complete overhaul of the e-learning training is being undertaken to provide a revised package in October 2006. In addition, RAF HR staffs are working with JPA staffs to produce simplified “how do I” guides for self-service and professional users. Further HR specialist training is being carried out at regional seminars, the first of which was held at RAF Benson on 20 Jul 06. Others will follow at RAFC Cranwell and RAF Leuchars in the next 2-3 weeks. A matrix has been distributed to units describing the division of responsibilities between unit staff and the JPAC EC. This work includes links to documents describing how to carry out specific actions. The 2nd edition of this document will be published this week and should clarify the JPAC/Unit HR areas of responsibility. Additionally, AFPAA are forming a roving training team which will be in place by mid-Sep 06.
4. Posting Preferences. To date, some 6,000 RAF personnel have yet to log on to JPA for the first time. Moreover, only 16,000 individuals have logged their choices of future assignment and location. Step by step instructions on exactly how to enter these choices are available on the JPA ‘Self Service Guide’. This basic action needs to be taken as soon as possible.
5. There is a raft of other work underway, including:
a. Flight Sub-Imprest Administration. A paper has been submitted to the Joint Requirements Steering group proposing improvements in Flight Sub-Imprest administration and proposing a maximum rate rather than actuals for incidental expenses.
b. Pay Statements. Units have reported that Pay statements have been addressed wrongly. The pay statement address is taken from RAF establishment data. It is the Unit responsibility to ensure that this data is accurate. I understand that there is a backlog of establishment updates to be input into JPA by the RAF. This will be resolved by Oct 06. Pay errors continue to receive most urgent attention in recognition of our responsibility to pay people accurately and on time. With the Jul pay now going into bank accounts, I will compare the error rate with the 650 in Jun. This compares with an average of 150-200 a month before JPA was implemented. I make this latter point because there have always been pay problems and we should not pretend that they will be eradicated totally. What I expect in the future is a far more responsive system than we have ever had before.
c. Subsistence Rates. Units and individuals have registered discontent about the capped actual subsistence system. The new systems will pay for the food and drink consumed, up to a rate exactly equivalent to the allowance under the previous system. It will not allow a claim for cash in lieu of food, as was previously the case.
d. Other Allowances. Other allowances have been rebalanced and retargeted within the same overall budget. This has allowed payment of Disturbance Allowance to single personnel for the first time and for higher levels of LSA to compensate those who spend the most time away from home.
e. RN Go-Live. Planning for the RN roll-out is well under way. The RAF will not have access to JPA from 14 - 22 Oct 06. This window will allow RN data to be migrated onto the system. Other ideas such as having a dedicated RN helpline number at go live, are being considered to prevent RN roll out impacting adversely on the RAF. The JPA system is being bolstered with extra hardware in advance of RN launch.
6. Feedback. Senior RAF Administrators attending this week’s Personnel Conference have been briefed by my Focal Point Team Leader and AFPAA’s D Change. This session addressed the issues submitted by units and gave direction on how they would be addressed (Annex A refers). I hope that this two-way dialogue has enabled stn staff to represent local concerns and take back the hard facts. On the same basis, Chf Clks are invited to visit the JPAC and AFPAA Model Office at Centurion Building in Gosport. Please ensure that your Chf Clk takes advantage of this opportunity [points of contact are: Mrs Doreen Allen (93844 ext 2126) or WO1 Hill (93844 ext 2567)].
7. I recognise that the speed of JPA improvements has not been at the pace that any of us would have wished. If I look back over the past 4 months, we have made huge steps forward, from system functionality through to data accuracy. Perhaps most importantly is that we understand JPA better. Whilst progress has been slow, we have broken the back of this issue and once the problems in the JPAC Enquiry Centre have been addressed, we will be well on the path to success. Rest assured, I will continue to drive for an improved service.
AMP
Annex:
A. Major JPA Issues Raised by Units.

I'll post the annex too if anybody is interested.
SDF

[Farfrompuken]

After a couple of Sherberts I've concluded that JPA is a secret saving scheme for those of us who like to blow substantial amounts of cash on shiney gadgets.

JPA have noted my requirements for a new MacBook and have witheld my pay accordingly.

Happy days :E

[D-IFF_ident]

Not sure if I'm getting paid correctly or not, as random pay statements arrive 2 or 3 weeks after getting paid, and they don't reflect the payment I get.

If you don't get anywhere with a formal complaint, perhaps consider a visit to the CAB and ask how to request an employment tribunal. Which you are entitled to, regardless of the parts of the Employment Act that don't cover crown service.

[PerArdua]

Has anyone notice the Bulletin that came out yesterday, we are now responsible for making abatements in our own claims in respect of any other allowances we are entitled to. If you have Home to Duty and claim Motor Mileage Allowance then you have to abate the amount you claim with what they pay you daily for your travel. Now that is an other example of us doing their dirty work to make up for the inadequacies of the system as it is the same system that gives us both claims. And what happens when you make your journey to work in the normal manner and then go off somewhere are they going to charge you with fraud even though you are only claiming a journey on MMA subsequent to your legitimate HTD one. If I had wanted to get this involved in my allowances I would have joined as Admin.

PA

[Pontius Navigator]

. If you have Home to Duty and claim Motor Mileage Allowance then you have to abate the amount you claim with what they pay you daily for your travel. and then go off somewhere are they going to charge you with fraud
PA

This is an old rule which, when they enforced it, we got round quite simply. We just went to work on the way. Then we claimed HtD, unabated mileage, the extra allowance as the journey time often went over time.

Bit of a p*ss*r at first but ultimately no real hardship as my typical route to work - 25 miles - passed within 4 miles of the main gate.

If it was pure 25 miles in the wrong direction then it would extend your working day by 50 miles - couple of hours - push you over the 11 and into a night stop.:}

[SirToppamHat]

I refer you to Post 1045.

Guess what? Still not been paid.

:mad:

STH

[Farfrompuken]

STH,

Take them to court, mate.

I'm seeing that as the only option should I not get paid all my dues by the end of this month.

Bear in mind the RN 'come aboard' soon, and the RAF will be dropped like a hat whilst they sort out the Navy's disastrous JPA intro.

The brass hats will accept that as only 75 of us got underapid in July(!!!!) and 'It'll be a tiny minority in Oct' the RAF are 'Okay'.:uhoh:

I know this is small beans compared to the poor souls at ISK but it is a matter of principle. I am a man of principles and if the RAF can't cope, then adios.

[Top Right]

Earlier in this thread (p 28) there was much scorn pointed at an MOD spokesman for JPA - Trevor Field. He did indeed promise back in May that all faults would be sorted by the "end of the week".

I note the same name is in today's BBC web reports for organising the media enclosure at ISK for the return of our 14 colleagues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/5338206.stm

I'll wager this guy can't wait for his Annus Horribilis to end.

TR

[SirToppamHat]

Telephone call today from JPAC - I need to fill-in all the forms again (all the info is on JPA already and I also have an email from them with all the names dates schools figures etc) and fax them in so that they can get them approved for today's pay run in the next hour that will (allegedly) pay me on Saturday. As I am about to in-brief for an exercise (control team waiting, crews have walked etc) I explain that this is impossible. I am praying that the Chief Clerk managed to sort it out on my behalf (as promised) in time for the pay run.

What have I done to deserve this?

STH

[thing]

Good grief, I'm glad I left 11 years ago. What a load of arse. I don't know how you guys stay motivated TBH. Maximum respect to those that still go out and do the business.

[PompeySailor]

Ever wondered how they keep the figures for problems down:

"Some Service Personnel may have noted GPD (Gross Public Debt) & NPD (Net Public Debt) entries on their July pay statement, leading to either an under- or over- payment. This issue is due to a pay process/software configuration fault in the GPD & NPD program and is affecting personnel who had a public debt against their pay account. This matter is currently under investigation.

A further bulletin will be posted once confirmation of resolution and repayment information is available. In the interim personnel should contact their Unit HR staff in the event of any hardship.

Servicemen who contact the Enquiry Centre (EC) to report GPD & NPD problems will not be given a Service Request number as the issue is already being resolved. The Service number and name of all such personnel will be logged in order to help with pay verification once the fix is in place."

AND THE SOLUTION....


A problem was identified in the JPA system with the processing of Gross Public Debt (GPD) and Net Public Debt (NPD) recovery (formerly known as Overissues). This was first communicated in Bulletin 0608-003 dated 4 Aug 06.

This issue has affected a number of RAF service personnel who have had a discrepancy in their pay because of an over-recovery of debt in June and July salary.

Recovery of Overpayments


The underlying problems with this process were corrected last week. Recovery action on all individual RAF personnel records affected by this problem was required prior to the August payroll process. This action was completed on Saturday 19 Aug and the August payroll has now finished.

All personnel affected will receive either a refund of monies in their August salary or an offset against remaining public debt. This will be dependent on what, if any, debt is remaining, and what activity would normally have taken place in August payroll. Any refunds will be shown by an adjustment to either "GPD" or "NPD" in the relevant area of the JPA payslip.

[Banana Boy]

I am one of 'those individuals' suffering the GPD / NPD entries. For the last 3 months, my pay statements have always run to 3 pages with contradictory and cancelling entries. I'm so bloody confused after 3 months that I honestly do not know whether I am in debt or not.

Does anybody else find the layout of the new pay statements a pain in the arse to understand....or am I just getting old?....:{

[rotarynav2639]

Has anyone heard for sure if the old Rates system is going to return?? I have heard that it will be re-introduced down at Lyneham some time in the Autumn 2006.

Cheers

RN2639

[SirToppamHat]

Today's sad CEA update ...

Left it as late as possible today before enquiring whether there had been any progress. Apparently my forms were completed by the HR people yesterday (very kind, and I am genuinely grateful - though I can't for the life of me imagine why it was necessary).

The forms were faxed to JPAC, but there were so many from all over the country that the whole thing ground to a halt and no-one knows whether my info was actually input to the compooter in time for the Pay Run. It would seem that I am one of very many in a similar position.

Don't worry, says HR, there's another pay run on 20 Sep 06 - not worried says I, Staish has told me to come and get a cheque from you instead. That'll be £12,262 please.

Has anyone ever taken the Service to the Small Claims Court?

STH:mad:

[Shadwell the old]

STH,

In answer to your question about the small claims court, I dont think so. However, I am considering that course of action.

I left the Service in February this year. I was away on a det that attracted LSSA until mid December. Being FTRS I was not paid LSSA automatically, but had to claim it on my return. Experience told me that it typically took up to 3 months for me to receive the money. The claim was duly submitted and authorised, and although it had not been paid when I cleared, I was not worried and was assured it would be paid at the end of February or March at the latest (1st mistake). When April came and went and I was not paid I wrote a letter to Innsworth to the address given for such correspondence when I was discharged. No reply. It has been chased up on a number of occasions and all letters have gone unanswered. The adj on my old Sqn has also faxed, written and called and been assured that it will be paid. Excuses have been given; backlog, JPA etc. Although the amount is small it is the principal that is getting to me and I am going to fire off a letter to AMP informing him that if this is not sorted by the end of October, I will take the RAF to the small claims court to recover my rightful dues.

As a side issue does anyone have a good address for AMP. I think I will send the letter by recorded delivery.

Shadwell

[Rather be Gardening]

Shadwell,

Interested to read your note. Am in a similar situation, but concerning overpayment of MQ charges (briefly, moved out in Nov 05, system carried on removing charges from pay despite regular requests to stop) all efforts via HR staff to effect a refund (a couple of K involved)fruitless. Variety of excuses offered, interspersed with 'it'll be credited to your account this month.....next month.....etc' but JPA being cited as the main delaying factor. Have now run out of patience big time and if it isn't in the bank account by the eom, intend to follow the Small Claims Court route shortly thereafter.

I'm appalled at the degradation to personnel support that this godforsaken system has inflicted. The stress it is causing HR customers and staff alike is unbelievable - the anger, disappointment and frustration voiced on this forum only shows a part of what's actually going on out there.

[EODFelix]

Shadwell,

Do have an addy and tel no (plus email) if ur interested. AMP now at HW.

Felix

[Shadwell the old]

EODFelix,

Yes please I am very interested. Please PM me with the details if you would rather not post them here.

After I posted my piece here this morning, I phoned the lady who is in charge of FTRS at Innsworth. She took over from Tom Robson and was very helpful, but advised me that the only way to pursue the issue would be through the JPA help desk! I tried phoning and got a fax! So I e mailed and although it is early days I have so far not received a reply. If I dont hear anything by Wednesday, I will send a recorded delivery to the address you have.

I know Barry Thornton (AMP) from a previous incarnation. Not that I think that would help. I dont think even a personal for, recorded delivery would get to his desk, but it is worth a try.

Needless to say, I will keep you posted on any progress I make. If I dont get satisfaction (ie the money I am due), I will take the Service to the small claims court.

Got to go, its time for my medication. Nuuuuuurse (not Kev)

Shadwell

[TheInquisitor]

Try taking EDS to the small claims court - after all, it is THEIR useless system and pointless, lazy staff in the JPAC who are the cause of this.

Boils my pi$$, so it does!!!

[Shadwell the old]

Unfortunately my gripe/problem pre dates JPA so my problem is with the old pay system.

[Climebear]

Then it's still AAFPA (not the RAF) - and guess who their contractor was on the legacy system...

[PompeySailor]

Try taking EDS to the small claims court - after all, it is THEIR useless system and pointless, lazy staff in the JPAC who are the cause of this.

Boils my pi$$, so it does!!!

I suppose you could try the trick that people are trying with the banks - hit them with a legal claim for unfair charges (in their case) and take them to a small claims court. It would appear the banks are rolling over on almost every case, but trying to delay the whole process. If EDS were hit with multiple small claims court hearings, their response would be interesting.

This is the link about the banks (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1141050760,24632) I don't know how much of that could be modified to apply to the current JPA situation? Any friendly (and free!) solicitors out there who could point out the exact legal failings of the current system to pay people correctly or to rectify problems within a reasonable time?

[Roland Pulfrew]

Has anyone heard for sure if the old Rates system is going to return?? I have heard that it will be re-introduced down at Lyneham some time in the Autumn 2006.
Cheers
RN2639


Anyone know if the old pay system is going to be reintroduced?? :E I am currently down only a relatively trivial £250-ish and so far only for 2 months. Fortunately I am keen and aware enough to challenge some of the issues on my pay statement, but what about those currently OOA or who are perhaps not quite as rigorous at checking their statements?

I do not find the new statement anywhere as near as user friendly as the old one. The utter stupity of getting a refund of food charges etc for a period of leave paid back as the amount divided by 30 or 31 days is utterly stupid. Why do we have to have this? Why can't they just refund No of days away x daily food charge? Is anyone out there listening? Do their airships care? Or are the fat, dumb and happy? After all DCDS Pers seems content that JPA is working!!!!

Oh and I understand that DCDS Pers (he who was responsible for the introduction of this farce) has just ordered that all "open" calls from the first 4 months of JPA be "closed" - after all they must all be sorted by now!!! :mad: :mad: So if you still have an "open" call I suggest you check its status.

[PompeySailor]

Anyone know if the old pay system is going to be reintroduced?? :E I am currently down only a relatively trivial £250-ish and so far only for 2 months. Fortunately I am keen and aware enough to challenge some of the issues on my pay statement, but what about those currently OOA or who are perhaps not quite as rigorous at checking their statements?

I do not find the new statement anywhere as near as user friendly as the old one. The utter stupity of getting a refund of food charges etc for a period of leave paid back as the amount divided by 30 or 31 days is utterly stupid. Why do we have to have this? Why can't they just refund No of days away x daily food charge? Is anyone out there listening? Do their airships care? Or are the fat, dumb and happy? After all DCDS Pers seems content that JPA is working!!!!

Oh and I understand that DCDS Pers (he who was responsible for the introduction of this farce) has just ordered that all "open" calls from the first 4 months of JPA be "closed" - after all they must all be sorted by now!!! :mad: :mad: So if you still have an "open" call I suggest you check its status.

JPA do release updates/bulletins, but you have to be on the system to see them! One that you may be interested in that the RAF will lose all access to the system when the RN come online for a 10 day period. And then unit HR staffs (the ones that they decimated) will be the only people allowed to access the system for an unspecified time after that.

The "closing calls" is correct, and they also operate a policy of "group closure" - if more than one person has the same problem, they investigate it as a group issue, and close off everyone's call regarding that subject. Nice way of keeping the numbers down!

[SirToppamHat]

Hi All

Sorry to bring this back to the top of the thread, but I promised I would when I eventually got paid the CEA owed and I have been ... well sort of.

My ongoing grumpiness eventually led those nice people from Human Resources (you know, the ones who used to sort out Boarding School Allowance) to pay me by BACCS transfer. The £12K arrived in my account on the day the overdraft ran out. However, this is only a loan pending payment through the JPA System. When that happens (and I am assured it will, one day) I will need to write a cheque for the full amount to pay the Station back.

I cannot possibly be the only person on here who is in a similar position - how many more are there out there?

I still have to redress the Stn Cdr (who has been great throughout I might add) so that he can pass details up the chain and (hopefully) refund me the costs associated with the overdraft.

I notice that there is a new thread for our Dark Blue Bretheren faced with this debacle. The very best of British. Oh and here's a question I was asked by one of the JOs the other day:

"If we are not allowed to have our mobiles on in the buildings on the Stn, what are all those stupid little yellow mobile-phone-holder 'deck chairs' for that JPA have sent us?"

Errrm

Regards

STH

[Farfrompuken]

Well, it appears my 'saving scheme' has matured - JPA looks set to pay me the majority of my dues at the end of the month.
MacBook Pro perhaps?:D

[JayPAC Frontliner]

Wow, RAF roll-out, what fun that's been, and I'm not even RAF personnel! (although perhaps the username gives it away)

I, as well as many of my colleagues, feel sorry for you all, and for what it was, wish SAMA would be brought back online. But, that would be seen as taking a step back, and God help it if the Government were to be seen as doing that!

Haven't read that much about the Enquiry Centre here (admittedly, I've not read all 54 pages of this thread!) but I can assure you, the Southern (for a diplomatic way of putting it) section really will try and do anything they can to get things resolved but we are limited in our capacities and it does frustrate us.

Moving on - it's a shambles that the RAF gets no access for a length of time for RN roll-out. 8th October is the cut-off date (date for your diaries) if you'd like anything actioned. It's expected to be shut-down then. 23rd October - D-Day Mk II. I just hope it goes better than the RAF roll-out... for all our sakes....

Wonder how the RN feel about their pre-Christmas pay being handled by JPA ? Mmm... confident as we are no doubt.

Anyway, only time will tell whether things will improve.... let's hope the mysterious back offices and programmers put down their doughnuts and get to work.... quickly.

Rant over for now, sorry if it bored you, just had to get it out!

-JayPAC Frontliner

[FrogPrince]

JayPAC,

Not been invited to California next month, then ?

http://www.oracle.com/openworld/attendees/exhibition-experience/index.html

FP

[SaddamsLoveChild]

I asked for an advance of rates prior to deploying to Iraq because of the unorthodox manner in which I was briefed and transported. It was paid 10 days after I needed it, and whats more they tried to reclaim it in full from my pay 30 days after it was issued. I had no JPA terminal in the AOR I was working hence I could not complete the correct forms and submit them. My pay has been screwed up since May and has not been corrected for 5 months and other than welfare phonecalls I am unable to do anything. When I get home the RAF wont have access because of Senior Service primacy while their pay is messed about and I am about 2K short. Luckily Mrs SLC has her own account and is able to monitor mine (you can give access to others to your account if you trust them enough).

What I have done that may be of use to others is sent a tersely worded email to the email helpdesk and must have got one of the few competent caring people there; it was answered within a day and all recoveries were frozen until my return. I think they are trying to help and it cant be easy for those that are professional and care.

You can sue your station commander or take him to the small claims court because he is the Senior Officer directly responsible for you. Its a gutsy move and comes with its own hazards. I sent my Stn Cdr a solicitors letter a few years ago when my pay had been completely screwed up for 9 months, it was sorted out in 2 weeks. But if you do ......dust off your No 1's you will be seeing the inside of a lot of offices.

[Ali Barber]

On the plus side, there seems to be some kind of lottery built into JPA. Back in July I must have got 5 numbers because I got the overseas portion of my pay twice. But this month, I've got the bonus ball as well; JPA has inadvertantly overpaid me by almost £30,000.

I know of at least one other who has had the same prize and it seems that JPA doesn't know how to recover it. Add in some FFR changes and it's going to get very confusing. Any suggestions on what to do with this windfall while the RAF is locked out of JPA?:ok:

[PompeySailor]

On the plus side, there seems to be some kind of lottery built into JPA. Back in July I must have got 5 numbers because I got the overseas portion of my pay twice. But this month, I've got the bonus ball as well; JPA has inadvertantly overpaid me by almost £30,000.

I know of at least one other who has had the same prize and it seems that JPA doesn't know how to recover it. Add in some FFR changes and it's going to get very confusing. Any suggestions on what to do with this windfall while the RAF is locked out of JPA?:ok:

Hi interest savings account, locked in for 6 months. Tell them that they cannot recover it immediately, and you would like to see the proposals for recovery, and you are looking at 6 months. You also want to see the documentation and breakdowns of why the money was paid incorrectly, and how they come to the figure that they claim you have been paid. Tell them where you have put the money, and that it is safe. Tell them that you will be keeping the interest and donating it to a Service Charity. Tell them that if they decide to get arsey about it all, you will take the pay slip, their letters, and anything else to a solicitor and the press.

Watch them squirm.

Of course, legally you have no right to hang onto the money. Best bet in reality is to open an internet only bank account, slide the whole lot in there, and wait for them to contact you about repayments. They could take you to court for immediate repayment, but admitting that they stuffed up this badly would not look good - court is very, very public......

[airborne_artist]

Any suggestions on what to do with this windfall

Ring Wing Commander Field (the Chemical Ali of the RAF), and tell him you'll be putting it on all red come Friday night. Then put the phone on handsfree while your mates gather round to hear the spluttering :E

[JayPAC Frontliner]

FrogPrince - Must be joking, my good man! We'd never be allowed NEAR California! Although, it is a rather enticing prospect - sun, sea, slating JPA.....

Ali Barber - That certainly is a bonus ball! Wonder if we can find one like it! Think PompeySailor's advice is probably best! Though, can I ask what the £30,000 overpayment was for ? Would be most intriguing to know!

[L1A2 discharged]

The experience of a few (lots) of people who were overpaid and then badgered into writing cheques to repay the money, only to then find that JPA also reclaimed the same funds back the following month is v bad.

If you have had an advance of rates there is no system within JPA to balance the advance against the full claim. PMA have a growing list of people who owe money back which will be reclaimed "sometime" :ugh:

Keep the money safely, don't spend it because its recovery will be effected at this "sometime" future date.

If it is a 'simple' overpayment the system may reclaim it at the following pay period, unfortunately you then enter the JPA pay merry go round and, similarly to the old system, it will be months before it balances properly.

[PompeySailor]

The experience of a few (lots) of people who were overpaid and then badgered into writing cheques to repay the money, only to then find that JPA also reclaimed the same funds back the following month is v bad.

If you have had an advance of rates there is no system within JPA to balance the advance against the full claim. PMA have a growing list of people who owe money back which will be reclaimed "sometime" :ugh:

Keep the money safely, don't spend it because its recovery will be effected at this "sometime" future date.

If it is a 'simple' overpayment the system may reclaim it at the following pay period, unfortunately you then enter the JPA pay merry go round and, similarly to the old system, it will be months before it balances properly.

Do you also realise that the RAF/JPA may not be aware of this overpayment? It's a little known fact that the audit trail/budgetary limit control element of JPA was not instituted, and that there is no one tasked with ensuring that the overall monthly spend is within tolerances - by contrast, the RN has designated a 2* to at least cast a cursory glance over the vote allocations for each element of the pay system to ensure that the variation is reasonable, and at least trackable. Which is why some people go an awful long time before being asked to pay money back. Unfortunately/fortunately, JPA and RAF rely on the honesty of the people to admit to these sort of cockups.

Best advice - sit quietly and try not to smirk too much.

[Ali Barber]

I've seen my pay statement and it is for the normal amount. This money has come out of the blue (or purple now the RN are coming on board?).

[PompeySailor]

I've seen my pay statement and it is for the normal amount. This money has come out of the blue (or purple now the RN are coming on board?).

Nothing on the pay statement, but the bank shows a BACS transfer? Interesting.

What money?

[Ali Barber]

Back at the end of June they paid my overseas allowance twice. Got a call from the bank today saying that the original clearing bank was asking for it back. Don't have a problem with that, nor if they do the same to reclaim the massive overpayment I just got. Only concerned that it was only because my bank queried it with me and wanted my authorisation as well, that I knew anything about it. no notification from JPA that they were about to do that. Good old HSBC, not so good JPA!

[Hueymeister]

Can't get on line at the mo....is the JPAC website dead at the mo?

[PerArdua]

Just looking at the latest operational bulletin they are introducing some software to prevent too many users logging on to the system as while they have a system capable of steady state running they are upset that we are all on changing our choice of postings and next of kin details. It will be interesting to see how many people can't get on to the system when the Navy comes on.

PA

[PompeySailor]

Just looking at the latest operational bulletin they are introducing some software to prevent too many users logging on to the system as while they have a system capable of steady state running they are upset that we are all on changing our choice of postings and next of kin details. It will be interesting to see how many people can't get on to the system when the Navy comes on.

PA

Perhaps if you all stopped applying for the Chief of the Air Staff job, or postings in the West Indies, the rest of the RAF could get on and do some account maintenance?

Can't wait to get on and start applying to be Second Sea Lord!

[PerArdua]

Perhaps if you all stopped applying for the Chief of the Air Staff job, or postings in the West Indies, the rest of the RAF could get on and do some account maintenance?


Just checked and they are not available! What is this hook I find in my mouth cast by the Senior Service.

PA

[PompeySailor]

Just checked and they are not available! What is this hook I find in my mouth cast by the Senior Service.

PA

No West Indies postings? My mistake. We must have traded them off for the all the States jobs......:ok:

[Wyler]

I leave the RAF in 8 weeks time and am still owed £1000.00. JPA Helpline says it is an issue for the Housing Exec (or whatever it is called today). They say it is an RAF matter. Local HR too busy with backlog. :ugh: :ugh:

I have decided that, on my last day, I am going to take the bosses service Corsa home. I will sell it back to them for £1000.00. :*

[PompeySailor]

I leave the RAF in 8 weeks time and am still owed £1000.00. JPA Helpline says it is an issue for the Housing Exec (or whatever it is called today). They say it is an RAF matter. Local HR too busy with backlog. :ugh: :ugh:

I have decided that, on my last day, I am going to take the bosses service Corsa home. I will sell it back to them for £1000.00. :*

£1000 for a Service Corsa? You need to nick 4 of them to make that much!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Did anyone else out there suffer the PAYE fiasco last month? Mine jumped by some £600 for no apparent reason!! It seems that JPA caught the error because they paid me it back:D Actually before the end of the month and the monthly pay statement!! If they can't get PAYE right (even though this would appear to have been correct for the preceeding 5 months) what faith do we have that the system is actually paying and taxing us correctly?:rolleyes:

[Chainkicker]

I leave the RAF in 8 weeks time and am still owed £1000.00. JPA Helpline says it is an issue for the Housing Exec (or whatever it is called today). They say it is an RAF matter. Local HR too busy with backlog. :ugh: :ugh:
I have decided that, on my last day, I am going to take the bosses service Corsa home. I will sell it back to them for £1000.00. :*

Was this originally about DHE still charging you rent after you had moved out? (cant be bothered to search thru the entire thread). :ok:
If so, I had the same sort of problem earlier this year which was resolved eventually after the Chief Clerk started hassling DHE on a regular basis. DHE are the only ones with sufficient system permissions to go in and change the occupation/march out date but its far too much hassle for them to do their job!!! Glad i'm out now and dont have to put up with their shoddy service any more :ok:

[PompeySailor]

Was this originally about DHE still charging you rent after you had moved out? (cant be bothered to search thru the entire thread). :ok:
If so, I had the same sort of problem earlier this year which was resolved eventually after the Chief Clerk started hassling DHE on a regular basis. DHE are the only ones with sufficient system permissions to go in and change the occupation/march out date but its far too much hassle for them to do their job!!! Glad i'm out now and dont have to put up with their shoddy service any more :ok:

DHE/MHS are great. I must admit, at the risk of exposing myself, that facing another frustrating week of not getting the job done for my significant 2*, I phoned the Chief Exec and gave it the "oh, sorry sir, thought I was getting your PS, but as you are on the phone....."

Job done, all paperwork signed, just a crying shame that I had to pull someone else's rank on this because the Liverpool/Local Office staff were so crap. I have never met an organisation that were able to drop their shoulders and shift blame so quickly and readily. And every letter they sent seemed to have left out the "satisfaction questionnaire" for some strange reason!

[Chainkicker]

DHE/MHS are great. I must admit, at the risk of exposing myself, that facing another frustrating week of not getting the job done for my significant 2*, I phoned the Chief Exec and gave it the "oh, sorry sir, thought I was getting your PS, but as you are on the phone....."
Job done, all paperwork signed, just a crying shame that I had to pull someone else's rank on this because the Liverpool/Local Office staff were so crap. I have never met an organisation that were able to drop their shoulders and shift blame so quickly and readily. And every letter they sent seemed to have left out the "satisfaction questionnaire" for some strange reason!
With the negligible risk of outing myself (computer literacy seems mutually exclusive to the DHE staff i encountered :rolleyes: ) what most impressed me was, after having received the solution that needed to be implemented (must be a first :) ) from the JPAC helpdesk, when i explained what needed to be done to the oxygen thief in the DHE office in UXB, ie. march me out of my MQ on 1 Apr on JPA as marching me out under the old system in mid March only accounted for up to 1 Apr, the reply was "But we hav'n't got time to action march outs to JPA because it takes too long to do". I managed to put the phone down without resorting to abuse (something part of me still regrets :)) and penned an email to the Stn Cdr which seemed to pay off a couple of weeks later with a full refund :D

[4fitter]

Sorry for slight thread creep but today I had cause to ring 'customer complaints' in Liverpool:

4f I'd like to make a complaint
Brendan What is it
4f You have rescheduled my repair work for the 4th time on the evening before after I have made arrangements for someone to be in the house.
Brendan No we haven't
4f Yes you have, you rang me last night
Brendan The computer says we didn't because the parts not in.
4f You rang last week and told me the part is in and booked to come today.
Brendan What is your name
4f (rank) 4f
Brendan So that is Mr 4f
4f No it is (rank) 4f
Brendan I'm sorry Mr 4f but we don't recognise ranks

I could go on but I can feel my BP rising now. Funnily, the contractor arrived today,with the part, because the MHS schedulers had forgotten to tell him that he was being rescheduled.

It is a complete farce and another example of cheap shoody support to the serviceman.

[Wader2]

Don't worry about going for the head honcho as long as you are sure of your facts and are polite and constructive.

I had been messed around right royally for over 18 months, first because someone of the requiste rank was not in post, then they needed time to get in post, then the paperwork was lost, then it was paid (only it wasn't) and then it all started again and still nothing happened.

I went direct to a CS * equivalent at STC and got a charming thank you back. Job done.

[charlie55]

I'm leaving; not before time some would say. But I discovered the easy way out of JPA. Use the manual Form (6 I think) to claim for everything you think you're owed and hand it in marked "retiring". The good folk in HR, as it now is (Dear God!), will process the paperwork with some urgency and you'll get what you're owed, pronto.

The point is that Form 6 is the easiest thing to use I've ever seen...so they do get some things right. Ciao!;)

[movadinkampa747]

"The JPA thread seems to be missing. Have we solved all the problems or is the long screwdriver evident?"

You found the JPA thread then. Where was it?

[Wyler]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I marched out of my MQ end of Aug. Assured that all paperwork would be done and pay adjusted. Latest pay statement says no! Talked to HR(:mad: name) and told to go back to Defence Estates. Did so and they said all paperwork submitted so not their problem. Phoned JPAC today and the :mad: idiot did not know the difference between single and married accom. I was told quote: It ain't nuffink to do wiv us'.
I leave the RAF in 23 days and am owed hundreds of pounds. What a sh!t way to end 25 years service.
I have just sent the mother of all e-mails to our precious HR personnel and am waiting for a reply. The next b@stard that tells me it is not their problem is going to spend the rest of their life being fed through a F:mad: ing straw.









and..........relax......breath in......breath out.......

[vecvechookattack]

Being just a newcomer to JPA (We went live 3 weeks ago) I can't seem to find any problems with it. The system works fine, the Help desk are helpful....my only gripe is that the Help desk numbering needs sorting out....


"welcome to JPAC...please dial 1 for the RAF, 2 for the Navy"...


For a start, its the ROYAL Navy and seeing as we are the senior service, shouldn't the RN be Number 1 ?

[LFFC]

Being just a newcomer to JPA (We went live 3 weeks ago) I can't seem to find any problems with it. The system works fine, the Help desk are helpful....my only gripe is that the Help desk numbering needs sorting out....


"welcome to JPAC...please dial 1 for the RAF, 2 for the Navy"...


For a start, its the ROYAL Navy and seeing as we are the senior service, shouldn't the RN be Number 1 ?

Just wait until your circumstances change for some reason! You'll be out of pocket for months while you try and sort out the mess!

[H5N1]

Ha! don't be fooled by JPA going ok for the first few weeks. I was paid correctly for 2 mnths only for the friendly folk in JPAland to decide that this wasn't good enough and why shouldn't I be messed around like the other 99.9% of users. So in month 3 they dropped my pay band and back dated it for 4 months. I have tried phoning every day for the money they owe me which now runs over £1000 as they change my salary on a monthly basis taking more and more cash off of me. The people on the end of the 'helpline' (they should be sued for calling it that for a start) constantly tell me that someone will get back to me in 10 working days and my query is now at the highest level of investigation. No one seems to give a monkeys as they know you can't just pop over to SHQ anymore. I have heard a rumour, don't know how true, that they have quotas to meet for complaints solved so they work through the easiest complaints first in order to meet their productivity quota, leaving those with complicated cases to spend hours on the phone to no avail. Luckily we are both working or the bank manager might not have been too happy!

[zedder]

Wyler,
I moved out of my MQ about the time JPA went live. Thought I might have the same problem getting the system to stop charging for it. I got the same run-around as to who was responsible for actioning the instruction within JPA to stop the payments. In the end my very helpful mini-Adj discovered that she was able to stop the payment herself. She took my word for it as to the date my occupancy ceased and it was all straight on the next payslip.

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Being just a newcomer to JPA (We went live 3 weeks ago) I can't seem to find any problems with it. The system works fine, the Help desk are helpful....my only gripe is that the Help desk numbering needs sorting out....


"welcome to JPAC...please dial 1 for the RAF, 2 for the Navy"...


For a start, its the ROYAL Navy and seeing as we are the senior service, shouldn't the RN be Number 1 ?

Try and put in a travel claim. My Home to Duty (a mileage based thing) goes in as a receipt based expense!! Go figure!!!:confused:

Oh and you were second arrival on to JPA.. Tissue Princess???:{
It'll be 'Dial 3 for Trench Foot 'next...TSK TSK!!!:ok:

'J' Bloke!!:cool:

[Ginseng]

I presume, then, that you are speaking as an RN HR administrator, since I understand your self-service users get cast adrift next week.

Don't be fooled too much just yet. Having had 6 months to experience the RAF's teething problems, and the opportunity to release Version 2 of the software to cooincide with RN rollout, we should expect the RN's experience to be a little less fraught than ours was. However, are all the problems solved? I wouldn't bet on it just yet. I hear some of your personnel have been given a zero leave balance because of problems with transfer of data from the legacy systems - manual override now necessary. And you haven't seen a pay run or tried to make an expenses claim yet!

Good luck!

Ginseng

[Safeware]

Vec, maybe you need to get through to this helpline:
http://scottrope.typepad.com/scott_rope/2005/02/answering_machi.html

:)

sw

[movadinkampa747]

Having had 6 months to experience the RAF's teething problems

Teething problems with JPA? Dont be to quick to judge as JPA leans within the cosy verb.:bored: You see, Besides the fictional budget intervenes my foreseeable shareholder from EDS and teething problems reclaims a parochial concerto within the company of EDS.
Why won't JPA scream beneath the bacterium that is infecting its core?:uhoh: Well I will tell you, a lean transmitter duplicates a satellite arc and JPA refuses every pointer.
So the solutions to teething problems breathes within JPA. Its easy to see that JPA bypasses solutions to all teething problems like Pandemic Flu:} .

[Ginseng]

Hmmmmm. A little too much of the hard stuff, methinks.

Regards

Ginseng

[LFFC]

Teething problems with JPA? Dont be to quick to judge as JPA leans within the cosy verb.:bored: You see, Besides the fictional budget intervenes my foreseeable shareholder from EDS and teething problems reclaims a parochial concerto within the company of EDS.
Why won't JPA scream beneath the bacterium that is infecting its core?:uhoh: Well I will tell you, a lean transmitter duplicates a satellite arc and JPA refuses every pointer.
So the solutions to teething problems breathes within JPA. Its easy to see that JPA bypasses solutions to all teething problems like Pandemic Flu:} .

Movadinkampa747 ---- So you're the person that's been sending me all the spam recently!

[movadinkampa747]

Movadinkampa747 ---- So you're the person that's been sending me all the spam recently!

Sorry, no its not me because you must realise that the correlate slang provokes spam. How do you, LFFC, pulse into its holy fuss? Spam flies before your visible doom. LFFC once again whoops "spam".

[Ginseng]

I'd try ringing that Irish hospital if I were you. You need help!

Regards

Ginseng

[light_my_spey]

movadinkampa747

What the **** are you going on about?



p.s. For us simple ones, PLAIN ENGLISH please.

[spectre150]

747's last 2 posts are like something out of a language translator programme the individual words are recognisable but when read together they are meaningles. :)

[extpwron]

If you cut and paste the text into Google Translate and convert to German you get this:

Dentitionprobleme mit JPA? Nicht zu schnell zu urteilen sein, da JPA innerhalb des cosy Verbs sich lehnt. Du siehst, außer dem fiktiven Etat greift mein vorhersehbarer Aktionär von EDS ein und Dentitionprobleme fordert ein parochiales Konzert innerhalb der Firma von EDS zurück. Warum nicht schreit JPA unter dem Bakterium, das seinen Kern ansteckt? Brunnen I erklärt dir daß, Duplikate eines magere übermittlers ein Satellitenbogen und JPA jeden Zeiger ablehnt. So atmet die Lösungen zu den Dentitionproblemen innerhalb JPA. Sein einfaches, zu sehen, daß JPA Lösungen zu allen Dentitionproblemen wie Pandemic Grippe überbrückt.

Convert from German into French you get this:

Dentitionprobleme avec JPA ? Juger pas trop rapidement son, puisque JPA se penche dans cosy le verbe. Tu vois, interviens excepté le budget fictif mon actionnaire prévisible d'EDS et des Dentitionprobleme reprends un concert parochiales dans l'entreprise d'EDS. Pourquoi ne pas marcher JPA sous la bactérie qui attache son coeur ? Le puits I t'explique que, maigre rejette les duplicatas übermittlers un coude par satellite et un JPA chaque pointeur. Ainsi respire les solutions aux Dentitionproblemen dans JPA. Son simple voir que JPA franchit des solutions à tous les Dentitionproblemen comme des Pandemic grippe.

Convert back into English you get this:

Dentitionprobleme with JPA? To judge not too quickly its, since JPA leans in cosy the verb. You see, intervene except the fictitious budget my foreseeable shareholder of EDS and of Dentitionprobleme take again a concert parochial in the company of EDS. Why not go JPA under the bacterium which attaches its heart? Well I explains you why, thin rejects the duplicatas übermittlers an elbow by satellite and a JPA each pointer. Thus breathes the solutions in Dentitionproblemen in JPA. Its simple to see that JPA crosses solutions with all Dentitionproblemen as of Pandemic seizes up.

………which makes more sense.

[spectre150]

why not say that in the first place - abundantly clear now :}

[SidHolding]

My LSA days are still incorrect on JPA and therefore I get paid it at a lower rate than I should recieve. I've had no luck at all trying to get it corrected with JPAC or HR, but things are potentially looking up now.....

Following some advice from a fellow sufferer of lost LSA days, I've applied to PMA through PSF that they provide my archive records under the data protection act (all above board - there's a form for it). I shall go through and calculate the days myself, photocopy the lot of send it out in triplicate to HR and JPAC.

I know I shouldn't have to do this, but hey, if you want a job doing correctly........

PS: Some people suggested photocopying my logbook, but I don't log courses or when AT took me in/out of theatre and I want every day back.

[Pontius Navigator]

my logbook, but I don't log courses or . . .

That's a shame. All mine were logged and very useful it proved. I was able to get my official records updated as the computer driven system had been fed the wrong data quite often.

As well you should also have that lovely blue ring-bound folder to record your whole service life.:}

[Mightycrewseven]

Sid

Matey, after the chat we had on Tuesday, I believe I will follow the same path as thou! Can you point me in the direction of the relevant form please?

Any idea on how long it will take for 'uselessworth' to come back with the goods?

Regards

M7

[Wyler]

I am now officially stuck on the wheel of death regarding my MQ deductions.

JPAC - Not us Guv, has to come from DHE, talk to them.
DHE - Done that, not our problem, talk to your local HR.
Local HR - You need to talk to JPAC.

I actually feel like killing someone.

[L J R]

Let me know how it goes Wylie.

[Shadwell the old]

Wyler,

Please PM me, I may be able to help

[Wyler]

The situation regarding my FMQ charges has at kast been resolved. My heartfelt thanks to the Deputy Chief Clerk who took pity on me and took up the gauntlet. In the end even he got fed up with the sloping shoulders, lies and false promises of the JPAC staff. He accumulated all the paperwork himself and Faxed the lot to JPAC. He phoned them every three hours for 4 days until they actioned it (just to shut him up). He also badgered DHE (or whatever) every day to come up with the facts and support him.

I have now been credited with the charges......and overpaid by 1300 pounds.........:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I am soooooo tempted to make the b@stards wait for three months and have to phone me every day but that would make me as bad as them. :mad:

This means that, under JPA, I have never had correct pay.

Good outcome and 10 out of 10 to the adminners who were outstanding. :D :D Still a sad way to say farewell. :( Many thanks to those who offered help. :ok:

[airborne_artist]

Why not pop down to the bank, and get the £1300 out in 2p pieces, and then send it to OC JPA by courier, deducting the courier charge from the amount being re-paid!

[Climebear]

Good outcome and 10 out of 10 to the adminners who were outstanding. :D :D

Now there's a phrase you don't hear every day!

[formertonkaplum]

Anyone else experienced (at the end of November ready for Xmas), the re-claiming of incorrectly paid advances?

I must have email JPAC and unit HR 5 times to tell them since my overissue in May.... and now they take it back. Well done for making sure it was at the most appropriate time. Just lucky my debt was small, some poor folks must have been really stung this month?

The farce that is JPA continues to cause havoc. Any rumours about a decent pay rise going round yet?

[Widger]

The RN awaits payment via JPA this month.:bored: :\


Thanks to all of you for being such good guinea pigs and resolving most of the issues.:ok:

[Skua'd]

Got my (RN) log-in this week. Pay statement has appeared, showing a positive amount:) . Will now wait to see if said amount can get to my bank.....:confused:

[sarsteph]

Anyone else had their disturbance allowance taxed in Nov paypacket? It seems someone pressed the wrong button again! Nicely timed, just as the Christmas shopping starts...:(

[ANAPROP]

Anyone else experienced (at the end of November ready for Xmas), the re-claiming of incorrectly paid advances?

There is a JPA operational bulletin out that covers this issue. It seems that if you owe £200, or less, it is being reclaimed from Novembers pay. If you owe more than £200 they will reclaim £200 from Nov's pay, and the rest, in full, from Decembers pay.
Now I know everyone puts over issues into a high interest account and doesn't spend it, however this is still insensitive timing what with the Christmas shopping to do etc.

[mayorofgander]

If you owe more than £200 they will reclaim £200 from Nov's pay, and the rest, in full, from Decembers pay.
.

No, sorry......my approx £8.5K overpayment was clawed back at 4 days gross this month....just another 20 or so months to go!!!

MOG

[4fitter]

Anybody surprised that disturbance allowance is now paid in monthly "pay runs" as against the within 3 days for most claims. Miss the pay run because you can't input outside the days to do and you end up not getting it until the end of the following month. Incur expense for a move but don't get it till later ! Where did I read that JPA would speed things up and make our allowances more accessible ? :(

[vecvechookattack]

The £200 mark sounds correct. We all had an email from a shiny in Fleet today stating that most of the RN had not paid enough Tax....pretty much all of us paid £200 short of what we would normally be expected to pay. E-Mail went on to state that the wonga would be recvered next month.

[Mactlsm1]

The £200 mark sounds correct. We all had an email from a shiny in Fleet today stating that most of the RN had not paid enough Tax....pretty much all of us paid £200 short of what we would normally be expected to pay. E-Mail went on to state that the wonga would be recvered next month.


So Vec,
Your post seems to refer to something originally posted by ANAPROP regarding advances, or didn’t you read that far down. Your issue seems to be coincidental in that it’s the same amount of money. Spooky eh?
JPA works then.............................. :mad:

NOT

PS Don't try to deny it.

Welcome to our world :ugh:

Mac

[vecvechookattack]

Well, it works for me. That £200 is going straight into the Mini cash ISA and will earn me a couple of bob whilst I wait for JPA to sort it out....free money - Result.

[TMJ]

Anyone else had their disturbance allowance taxed in Nov paypacket? It seems someone pressed the wrong button again! Nicely timed, just as the Christmas shopping starts...:(

To be fair, they've noticed it and reckon it'll be paid back in a suplementary pay run by the end of the month. I'm morre vexxed with whoever forgot to tick the box for my GHY for all of September; didn't turn up in October's slip, I spoke to PSF and they admitted the mistake, but it still hasn't appeared. It's a long way from the north end of the Empire to the Swindon college of knowledge, so a month's mileage basedallwance would be nice...

[Pontius Navigator]

, I spoke to PSF and they admitted the mistake, but it still hasn't appeared.

Chinese walls, DPA and all that. JPAC will not discuss with PSF.

[sarsteph]

[quote=TMJ;2990483]To be fair, they've noticed it and reckon it'll be paid back in a suplementary pay run by the end of the month.

Credit to JPA (for once:E ) - they have delivered on the promise; I've just seen the notification that the incorrect tax will be repaid on payday at end of Nov.

[airborne_artist]

And now the Marines in 'stan have to re-pay over-paid allowances. telegraph report (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=WVEHIK1WOKJGVQFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/11/30/nmarines30.xml)

"The morale of Royal Marines serving on the front line in Afghanistan has plummeted after a £3,000 allowance was deducted from their wages following a "dreadful blunder" by Royal Navy administrators."

"A Navy spokesman said it was "regrettable" that an error had been made when pay chiefs had incorrectly made briefings on pay allowances two years ago.

The new system was designed to simplify allowances and ensured Navy personnel were treated in the same way as RAF and Army."

[TMJ]

And now the Marines in 'stan have to re-pay over-paid allowances. telegraph report (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=WVEHIK1WOKJGVQFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/11/30/nmarines30.xml)

"The morale of Royal Marines serving on the front line in Afghanistan has plummeted after a £3,000 allowance was deducted from their wages following a "dreadful blunder" by Royal Navy administrators."

"A Navy spokesman said it was "regrettable" that an error had been made when pay chiefs had incorrectly made briefings on pay allowances two years ago.

The new system was designed to simplify allowances and ensured Navy personnel were treated in the same way as RAF and Army."

Hmm, my reading of the article was that they're not getting a wedge they were told they were going to get, rather than they've been paid and now have to give it back. Looks like a traditional admin cockup (pusser's cockup as it's the Naval Service?) rather than directly related to JPA.

[The Mad Taff]

As a former member of handbrake house I hoped that I'd be paid my final pay and gratuity for 15 years service no probs! Our survey said NO! The JPAC have taken £2500 off me, haven't paid my gratuity and are refusing to talk to me about it all! An advance for resettlement has gone for a burton and this callsign is now severly out of pocket!!!! Argh! This is all the thanks I get! :mad: :ugh: :{

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Just a heads up to all you folks trying to sort stuff about back pay thru your PSFs... had an issue with GYH for a few months now, handbrake finally sorted it and was confident the backpay would appear in November's packet. GYH for nov appeared, but not the arrears. Now appears that, with the RN joining the fray, the limit for JPA automatically working out what you should have been paid is Nov 1st. Anything else has to be submitted thru psf to JPAC:(

[Climebear]

Anything else has to be submitted thru psf to JPAC:(


That'll be through all those clerk posts that have been disestablished to fund JPA and the JPAC then :ugh:

[swampy_lynx_puke]

:mad: :uhoh:

I have not been paid!!! 1st RN pay run and no money, I shouldn't be surprised after the catalogue of farcical errors listed on this thread.
No Chrimbo in my house!! (only joking, I made sure cash flow situation could cover the inevitable)

Anyone else suffer the same?:\

[airborne_artist]

I made sure cash flow situation could cover the inevitable

And how many less sensible than you have been caught out by Uncle Scrooge's hand on the tiller of JPA?

[Vim_Fuego]

:mad: :uhoh:
I have not been paid!!! 1st RN pay run and no money, I shouldn't be surprised after the catalogue of farcical errors listed on this thread.
Anyone else suffer the same?:\

First of al my sympathies Swampy but at least through the light blue experience of JPA you were given warning to put a bit aside...

Just to let you know so you can work to a timescale for perhaps when your probs may be ironed out I got paid correctly this month and with the flying pay I was owed...This is the first time since April it's happened and they even phoned me to tell me it was sorted which incidently was the first time I ever got a call back from my couple of dozen calls to them...

I suppose I should get all gushy now and praise them for finally getting it right in time for Christmas but lets face it, if I had a choice of systems/companies to pay me I would have changed suppliers in June when my faith of this system totally ran out.

In the event that you run to the same time path as me you'll be sorted by June 07...:bored:

[L J R]

Appalling that you had to 'put some money aside' - 'just in-case'. Get a Grip MoD - It is the year 2006, not 1845, why should the the most dedicated people in the UK be so utterly shafted! In this century, Technology transfers funds at the speed of light, why oh why does it take 6-9 months for glitches to be sorted!

[PompeySailor]

I got paid, but I seem to have made a donation to charity. Only a quid, but not sure how that one got through! I now can't wait to see how they deal with me leaving (terminal date in 8 days), and getting the combination of LSAP repayment, final salary, pension and lump sum all sorted out.....My paperwork has been in for over two months, so I was assured that there were no problems.

And yes, I still have the Government Procurement Card in my possession, and I will send it back, cut into pieces, once I am sure that they have got their end of the deal right.

[Wyler]

First day as a civvy yesterday and all pay etc correct. No thanks to the shambles that is JPA. My final act in Admin on Thursday was to leave a bottle of Bolly for the Dep Chief Clerk who pulled out all the stops to sort this mess out.

JPA, a disgrace and heads should roll. Oh yes, I had to sort out my computer acct etc before clearing only to find that I can no longer deal direct with the IT staff. No, I have to ring the Single Point of Contact (SPOC), somewhere in England, and talk to a machine. It then transfers me to the bloke who sits 500m away. Very soon you will pick up the phone to ring the Mess/Admin/MT etc and get a bloke in Delhi.:rolleyes:

Wore my own clothes to work yesterday and looking forward to Xmas AND New Year off.:ok:

Merry Christmas to all shades of Blue and Green. You deserve better, MUCH better.

[vecvechookattack]

Wore my own clothes to work yesterday Blimey....whose clothes did you used to wear? Is this some sort of Crossdressing party?

[Ginseng]

Does anyone know what payment the RM had been told they would receive but have not? The Telegraph stories have been pretty unenlightening, as the figures quoted bear no relation either to LSA bands or to the new Operational Allowance. It is also said that the erroneous briefing occured 2 years ago. Any ideas?

Regards

Ginseng

[PompeySailor]

First day as a civvy yesterday and all pay etc correct. No thanks to the shambles that is JPA. My final act in Admin on Thursday was to leave a bottle of Bolly for the Dep Chief Clerk who pulled out all the stops to sort this mess out.

JPA, a disgrace and heads should roll. Oh yes, I had to sort out my computer acct etc before clearing only to find that I can no longer deal direct with the IT staff. No, I have to ring the Single Point of Contact (SPOC), somewhere in England, and talk to a machine. It then transfers me to the bloke who sits 500m away. Very soon you will pick up the phone to ring the Mess/Admin/MT etc and get a bloke in Delhi.:rolleyes:

Wore my own clothes to work yesterday and looking forward to Xmas AND New Year off.:ok:

Merry Christmas to all shades of Blue and Green. You deserve better, MUCH better.

I've got a new uniform. I wear green instead of dark blue now. It says "ASDA" on the back, and I wear a badge which says "Happy To Help" on the front. They gave me two pairs of trousers - which is one pair more than the RN issued me! I have a locker, that I didn't have to bribe someone to get, to store it in.

I have no responsibility outside my own personal environment and common sense, I get asked to work late, and they pay me for it. I can say "no" as well. I don't sign for anything, ever, including keys for alcohol storage areas. I go to work, do exactly what I am told, and I know when I start, when I finish, and that I will not have to do somersaults to keep someone else happy. I can make suggestions without someone nicking my idea. People say "Thank You" all the time when I do my job - they even have a big board where people write their "Thank You" notices so that everyone can see. I can't do something that I am not trained for, and no-one asks me to. People talk nicely to me, no-one pulls rank on me, my managers get their hands at least as dirty as mine, and we share the same eating, rest and toilet areas. There are no toilets (as there are in HMS NELSON by the UPO) marked "Officers Only". The staff discount book is better than the Forces Discount Directory, they don't change my terms of service every time the Chief of the Defence Staff scratches his left testicle. I have the right kit and tools for the right jobs, and I BLOODY LOVE IT! I go to work happy, I come home knackered and aching, but happy, and I think I am probably more productive now that I was in some of my jobs in the last 10 years of Service, because I hated the people I was working for and with.

Then again, I start Teacher Training in January. I am the oldest person on the course, and judging by the ladies on the same course, I am going to spend the next 12 months wishing that I was at least 15 years younger. I will be a full-time student, with grants and loans, 13 weeks holiday a year, and job where the people who behave like they are 9 years old actually ARE 9 years old! It will also be nice to teach people that 2+2=4, and not have to worry about them being Number 2 in the Attack Party in the next fire incident......

[LFFC]

It looks like EDS may have plans for their JPA contract.

The Observer (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1962459,00.html)
IT workers under threat as EDS moves jobs offshore (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1962459,00.html)
Richard Brooks (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1962459,00.html)
Sunday December 3, 2006 (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1962459,00.html)

Fears are growing for the future of hundreds of British jobs following disclosures that Texas-based Electronic Data Systems, the largest supplier of IT services to the UK government, is set to offshore thousands more jobs next year, documents seen by The Observer reveal.

The move will inflame already strained industrial relations at EDS. The company is facing an employment tribunal in 2007 over its handling of 80 redundancies on Ministry of Defence and Department of Work and Pensions contracts.

The offshoring proposal is part of an EDS global restructuring known as the 'Best-shore Strategy 2007'. Under the plan, staff numbers in global service centres in India, China, Argentina, Hungary and Poland will more than double to over 13,500 next year. The bulk of the offshored work is in IT applications and user support. The company insists the work will go to the most appropriate location and not just the cheapest.

It is not known how many offshored jobs will come from government contracts, which account for over half of EDS's UK business.

So much for helpline support! :uhoh:

[It's Not Working]

PompeySailor

Top transmission Shippers, thanks and good luck with teaching. Thought about it but don't have the guts.

[Miles 'n More]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-12-05b.105856.h&m=1668#g105856.q0

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-12-05b.105857.h&m=1668#g105857.q0

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-12-05b.105858.h&m=1668#g105858.q0

So now you know.....It's all fine :ugh:

[swampy_lynx_puke]

Miles,
Thanks for the links...

To quote the Honorable Derek,

"...Late payments have, almost without exception, related solely to the specialist pay and allowances components..."

First time in my career that I've been exceptional!!

Still no pay at all (forget spec or allowances) from JPA, my local unit has provided an advance to keep the home fires burning. :ugh:

[Wrathmonk]

Pompey

I think I'm as green as your "uniform" with envy. Still 2 yrs left but I aspire only as far as Tescos!

[Mr Blake]

I've got a new uniform. I wear green instead of dark blue now. It says "ASDA" on the back, ......

Where is this mythical place called ASDA ?.....this land of milk and honey, where people are treated with respect. Is there a queue? Can we all join? It sounds like the unreachable dream!!!

[SidHolding]

Fingers crossed I've sorted my LSA errors on JPA. Through PSF I requested a copy of my records held at Innsworth under the data protection act.... on page 47 of 58 I found a LSSA total from March 2004 (before commissioning), these days had been lost. Spoke to my HR and it should now be credited on my next payslip.......

Which brings me on to payslip.... I've not had a paper payslip for over 3 months now!! I've submitted a service request and, you've guessed it, was told to speak to my HR?!? :ugh:

Finally, I'm hoping :hmm: to get paid my LOA from a det in June at the end of this month. I'll be clearing from the unit in January, so if it's not paid I shall request that it's unit paid before I clear. They can have 10 days notice, as I would have to pay back any money I owed before I'd be allowed to clear.

PS: I'm not holding my breath........................:rolleyes:

[PompeySailor]

Where is this mythical place called ASDA ?.....this land of milk and honey, where people are treated with respect. Is there a queue? Can we all join? It sounds like the unreachable dream!!!

It's bloody great! The money is not much, but then again, what am I doing? £5.80 an hour to refill shelves is about right, I reckon. I got turned down by B&Q (only 40 and with an Hons Degree, they thought I might be too "threatening" to the managers), Morrisons (same reason), Homebase (same again), and I got the "overqualified" response from other places. I was honest with ASDA, phoned them and asked for an interview based on how I wanted their cash and a Walmart discount card, and they took me on!

I love it, they give me loads of hours because I can be trusted to get on with a job, show some initiative, and take charge and motivate the seasonal staff. It works for all concerned. And the store manager can normally be found on the shop floor getting his hands dirty doing the same job that I do - as can all the section managers. No danger of "separation by desk" with this lot! My wife is now concerned that I will want to stay forever.....

And I was surprised at the amount of "ex" people that work there, and how easy it is to spot them by their work ethics....we may slag life in a uniform, but it does give you some pretty good characteristics and morals which the civilian employer absolutely loves!

[Mr Blake]

I can confirm all PS has said. Mrs Blake worked there for a couple of happy years before the inevitable move due to Service reasons. She was indeed a happy bunny, and it was with great regret that she terminated her contract. Sadly no ASDA within commuter range of our current location.

Perhaps our glorious leaders would benefit from a "management exchange programme", to learn how to treat your workforce properly, especially as the military is now fashioning itself along standard business lines. Not sure about the gaudy green uniform though, but like the idea of the nametags with the monicker "pleased to help".

I feel a GEMS coming on.:bored:

[PompeySailor]

I can confirm all PS has said. Mrs Blake worked there for a couple of happy years before the inevitable move due to Service reasons. She was indeed a happy bunny, and it was with great regret that she terminated her contract. Sadly no ASDA within commuter range of our current location.

Perhaps our glorious leaders would benefit from a "management exchange programme", to learn how to treat your workforce properly, especially as the military is now fashioning itself along standard business lines. Not sure about the gaudy green uniform though, but like the idea of the nametags with the monicker "pleased to help".

I feel a GEMS coming on.:bored:

I suggested once that the powers-that-be in Portsmouth dockyard might like to get their shiny arses over to Disney to see how to manage parking when you have lots of people driving to work each day, rather than just issuing passes to their mates and then letting the NCP employees (sorry, MGS) damage cars by moving them, then charging people to get them back, but not on a Friday, or when the ship comes in, or until Ted has finished his tea. And giving civvie companies 20 each, but requiring people joining a ship to turn up with draft orders, both parents, the ship's CO and a signed affadavit from a High Court judge so that they could drop their kit off.

All I got was funny looks and my parking permit taken away.

Oh yes - I can park in ASDA car park all day for no charge now I work there, even on days that I am not working. Could I do that in Portsmouth Dockyard? Don't be silly......:=

[Hoots]

I received a few hundred extra quid on the 1st Dec from HMG, used the same ref as my normal wage on the internet banking. However, I have no idea why I was paid it and there is no record of it on JPA. Was looking for a run 2 or something but nothing at all, no extra pay chit also.

Anyone else had the same thing happen, or anyone missing a few hundred quid.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

On local (BBC Soth West) news at 1830 there was a story in which the wife of a member of 3 Commando Brigade was complaining that the troops in Afgahnistan were unable to use JPA, hadn't been paid correctly and were not being fed properly.........

[sarsteph]

Hoots, were you out somewhere sandy this year and expecting to receive the new operational allowance? If you were that might be your mysterious Christmas bonus.

[formertonkaplum]

My Online JPA Pay Statement for December states the 31st Dec as payment date.... A Sunday?

Is this going to be another co*k up...?

Sunday is not the last working day of the month !!

[Ventre A Terre]

FTP
For what it's worth every RAF pay statement I've had in the last 20 years has indicated the pay would hit on the last day of the month and yet it's always been there on the last working day. Simply another case of accurate administration!

Seasons Greetings to all

VAT

[Miles 'n More]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-12-05b.105856.h&m=1668#g105856.q0

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-12-05b.105857.h&m=1668#g105857.q0

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-12-05b.105858.h&m=1668#g105858.q0

So now you know.....It's all fine :ugh:

I brought a number of issues up with my MP on this and it was he (Ben Wallace) that tabled these questions on my behalf. As a former member of the RAF (mostly at ISK), I figured there would be no come back to me personally.

My MP has now written to me to ask for my response to the answers. I am obviously not personally affected by this system, but if anyone can send me contradictory information to that supplied by Derek Twigg, I will pass it on for follow up.

Please PM me with any info. I will not pass on any names etc.

Miles 'n More.

[Hoots]

My extra payment isn't the op bonus, it is aparently reserve band flying pay. So 1st Dec £300 odd extra and now on my december pay chit i have reserve band flying pay and its back dated about 4 months, so an extra £2300 gross. However the problem is that im on PAS so at some point they will want it back. No doubt there will be cock ups when they do take it back, just what you need when going off on det.

JPAC say contact HR admin, who it has nothing to do with now, so more time spent on the phone and doing an I-support thingy.

Im sure im not the only one this is happening to, so i put it down to the incompetence of JPA.

So far accurate pay for 2 months out of 8 since its introduction, and im sure there are people far worse off than me.

How long do we have to suffer with this system!!!

[N Joe]

Has anyone out there left the mob since JPA and successfully received their gratuity and pension?

I leave next month and am mildly interested in whether I'll get mine. I've filled the forms in but PSF can't confirm they've been received or processed - "that's JPAC now". JPAC, of course, are clueless as "that's Gosport's responsibility". Obviously, you can't actually talk to Gosport, you go through JPAC. JPAC's advice? "Call us if it doesn't arrive".

Some reassurance would be good as the Christmas VISA bill looks like it could eat the gratuity for breakfast!

[Bladdered]

I have, and as I said in another thread, gratuity received in 8 working days from last day. I asked the same question of JPAC/pensions and received the we neither confirm nor deny receiving your AFPAA1. Frustrating bearing in mind it would have been just as easy to say, yeah we got the form!! As timely receipt of gratuity and pension (whether you have or have not got a job) is one of the most important things on leaving the service, some acknowledgement is in my view essential. So those of you monitoring this thread - please consider doing something about it.

Ed

[PompeySailor]

I have, and as I said in another thread, gratuity received in 8 working days from last day. I asked the same question of JPAC/pensions and received the we neither confirm nor deny receiving your AFPAA1. Frustrating bearing in mind it would have been just as easy to say, yeah we got the form!! As timely receipt of gratuity and pension (whether you have or have not got a job) is one of the most important things on leaving the service, some acknowledgement is in my view essential. So those of you monitoring this thread - please consider doing something about it.

Ed

Right, now it gets strange. I sent an email to my ex-Boss yesterday (2*) with the details of the problems so far, and who appears to have heard anecdotal rumours of this happening. I checked my account this morning, and I have a pending BACS transfer for what appears to be the lump sum, less outstanding LSAP! However, no final balance of pay, no pension payments, and no letter from anyone explaining what payments are being made and when! I also mentioned the Small Claims Court action that would have been pending from tomorrow (headed off by the lump sum payment, thank you). Coincidence?

I also got through to the compliant human (Steven Harvey) on the JPAC yesterday who actually took my details and gave me a Query Reference, better than the stupid tart (Heidi) who I am sure I was keeping awake, or stopping her from filing her nails. I know it's Christmas, but my Christmas spirit was ebbing fast enough such that if we were not fog bound at Gatwick I would have been tempted to get a flight to Glasgow to give her some customer face-to-face time....

[Bladdered]

Hi PS

Got my P45 through the post to home a couple of days after BACS payment. The payslip was forwarded from my old work address about a week later that explained how the final payment was made up. It included the 2 days pay and regularising tax credit for the 2 days I 'worked in October'. I have had 2 further payslips since - the last telling me I did not get paid in November. Payslips are still coming from my old work address - this is obviously a common glitch in the system, why does JPA not recognise that when you have left or are about to leave, payslips should go to your home.

As for Pension. You will get a statement from Paymaster saying what you will get net of TAX. I had to e-mail them for mine and subsequently discovered that they had been sending paperwork to the wrong address ie my old work address (this time the Central Registry did not know who I was and returned paperwork). Paymaster have a strange practice of paying you at some arbitrary time of the month - after which this becomes your monthly pay day. I left on the 2rd of the month but get paid a pension on the 23rd? Other mates have similarly arbitrary payment dates.

PM me if you want any more details.

Ed

[LFFC]

Government Pays Double for Consultants (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml;jsessionid=ZOUN0D0OPEUUFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/money/2006/12/24/cnconsult24.xml)

It looks like EDS are making a real killing from their government contracts!


Government consultants are making profits margins double those made in typical private sector contracts, according to internal documents seen by The Sunday Telegraph.
They show that EDS, a US technology company that is one of the largest government IT providers, has made operating profits of £767m on £2.6bn worth of work with the Department of Work & Pensions since 2003 – an average profit margin of around 29 per cent.

Now, I wonder which other department pays through the nose?


Over the past four years EDS has been paid nearly £809m by the MoD for the department's central IT system. The company reports that the contract has netted it profits of £291m – at an average profit margin of more than 18 per cent since 2003.


I wonder what their profit margin is for JPA?

[PompeySailor]

Government Pays Double for Consultants (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml;jsessionid=ZOUN0D0OPEUUFQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/money/2006/12/24/cnconsult24.xml)

It looks like EDS are making a real killing from their government contracts!



Now, I wonder which other department pays through the nose?



I wonder what their profit margin is for JPA?

Lots, and for a reduced service. Official line is that they cannot meet the same standards that we may be used to, or the same timelines. Got my P45 though, with a letter dated the same day that I threatened court action on them. Everything paid now except final pay, but I should imagine that will be done on time. Simple answer is to post up on here, and then threaten to take the right people to court, publicly.

Helps if you know some friendly journos who can also ask pertinent questions at the right times!

When EDS took over in Centurion, there was a guy who researched them, and came to their first "hello" meeting. He asked lots of awkward questions about redundancies, terms and conditions, etc. His boss was asked to make sure that he was out on a visit on the date of the next meeting. The guy wrote down everything that he thought would happen if EDS took over, and got it all right, even including the closing of the bar. He left the MOD and refused to transfer to EDS. He now has a much better, and more secure job, elsewhere.

[vecvechookattack]

My Online JPA Pay Statement for December states the 31st Dec as payment date.... A Sunday?

Is this going to be another co*k up...?

Sunday is not the last working day of the month !! Yes it is.... I shall be turned to on 31st Dec and so it will be a normal working day for me and for thousands of others

[Almost_done]

Ah, pedantry reaches a new height.

Perhaps FTP should have said a banking week, that may have helped VVE (or what ever it's called) understand.

[N Joe]

PompeySailor / Bladdered

Saw your comments on the other thread, thanks. If I get through to Heidi when I ring JPAC, I'll pass on your regards.

N Joe

[number1matelot]

PompeySailor / Bladdered

Saw your comments on the other thread, thanks. If I get through to Heidi when I ring JPAC, I'll pass on your regards.

N Joe

Having been directed to this rumour network, I find all your comments regarding the JPAC and its staff baffling. I worked there for four weeks during RN roll-out and found that Heidi was one of the more knowledgeable members of the team. What I also found quite incredible is that servicemen/women are extremely rude to the operators who answer your queries. The whole attitude seemed to change when a Service HR adminstrator got on the phone. Could this be the attitude you all use when dealing with call centres who phone up trying to sell you double glazing just as you are sitting down for your dinner. := What you must remember also is that at anytime there may be a senior officer listening into your call. (4* officers have been known to sit and listen.) :eek: Personally, I am impressed with the level of service that the JPAC offer.:D

[mbga9pgf]

Having been directed to this rumour network, I find all your comments regarding the JPAC and its staff baffling. I worked there for four weeks during RN roll-out and found that Heidi was one of the more knowledgeable members of the team. What I also found quite incredible is that servicemen/women are extremely rude to the operators who answer your queries. The whole attitude seemed to change when a Service HR adminstrator got on the phone. Could this be the attitude you all use when dealing with call centres who phone up trying to sell you double glazing just as you are sitting down for your dinner. := What you must remember also is that at anytime there may be a senior officer listening into your call. (4* officers have been known to sit and listen.) :eek: Personally, I am impressed with the level of service that the JPAC offer.:D
To be honest, I couldnt care less if some blunty overpaid adminer "general" has listened in... Oh, and where does this stand with current data protection laws I wonder?!
Perhaps its because the service operators have more of a can-do attitude as opposed to "I cannot answer your question so I will palm you off to unit HR" exhibited by many JPAC operators I spoke to... Although I would never be rude, and cannot condone personal attacks on individuals from an anonymous web forum I Simply refused to be bare-faced lied to and expect to take JPACs crap bendt over a barrel, to wait a further week before they bother to return my calls. Just because I am service personnel does not mean I should expect anything less than 100% for matters regarding my pay, conditions and leave, whilst the service expect me to spend most of the year in the sandy place.
You may be impressed, I certainly have not been so far by this frankly atrocious system which was, lets face it, forced upon us way before it was ready.
It took 6 months, over two dozen phone calls, 2 formal letters of complaint and initiating redress prior to my issues getting resolved, over a matter that, prior to JPA, would have required a simple visit to Handbrake house to resolve.:ugh: :ugh:

Oh, and they up top in the ivory towers are currently wondering why we are all leaving in droves.... :hmm:

[PompeySailor]

Having been directed to this rumour network, I find all your comments regarding the JPAC and its staff baffling. I worked there for four weeks during RN roll-out and found that Heidi was one of the more knowledgeable members of the team. What I also found quite incredible is that servicemen/women are extremely rude to the operators who answer your queries. The whole attitude seemed to change when a Service HR adminstrator got on the phone. Could this be the attitude you all use when dealing with call centres who phone up trying to sell you double glazing just as you are sitting down for your dinner. := What you must remember also is that at anytime there may be a senior officer listening into your call. (4* officers have been known to sit and listen.) :eek: Personally, I am impressed with the level of service that the JPAC offer.:D

To the extent that I have been asked to forward all my problems to a Gp Capt and also to an RN 2*,and a Lt RN on the Data Protection Steering Group, because they know that there are problems.. I also have an email which states quite clearly that there are huge problems dealing with people going outside, and that AFPAA have internally revised the timelines because under the newer, better system they are unmeetable! Heidi was ignorant and did nothing more than block my queries, despite it becoming apparent from the dates on subsequent letters that if she had actually tried putting my service number into the computer (if she had bothered to even ask for it), she would have seen the BACS transmissions waiting to be made! If there was a 4* sat on my conversation, then he should have woken up and told her to get her thumb out of her arrse and deal with the problem!

If they want, they can pull the tape of my conversation, and they will hear that she was worse than useless. In addition, I have found that the JPAC staff openly lie. Having been told that things are not being done to the timeline, my stuff all came through on time, and my P45 came through months earlier than expected. I know, it's a bonus that I shouldn't be moaning about, but it's only because I have the requisite "HR" background that I was fortunate enough to know who to call, how to phrase the questions, and the avenues open to me in the event of a JPA cock up. I pity those who don't know where to go when their payments are not made on time, or their documentation goes astray. I have managed to get one Pay Statement sent to my home address, the rest have been sent to Whale Island and Victory Building! I also knew which legal threats to make, and how to make them. 22 years, leaving as a POWriter helps no end when the bull**** starts flying! I also worked on PAS (and the PRP debacle), so I understand perfectly well how the projects hold together, and the shortcuts that are made. JPAC had a help reference number, with my mobile and home number on, and have not even managed to call back. Heidi didn't even bother logging a call. That puts her on the same playing ground as "Hello, this is Everest Double Glazing" as far as I am concerned.

Servicepeople going outside are clearly entitled to "get stroppy" when the help desk staff are unable to access records that are on their system (I know, I've seen the receipt notes and printouts for the data transaction forwarding my details), and also to be told that nothing is being paid "because you have been paid already" is rude, incompetent, and something that we would not have to put up with outside of wearing a uniform. Which is now something I no longer have to put up with, and the relevant departments will be receiving letters accordingly.

I don't particularly care how competent Heidi was during the 4 week rollout - competence is a system which pays people the right amount, at the right time. JPA is clearly somewhere outside that description, unless you prefix it with "partially".

[Hoots]

I don't particularly care how competent Heidi was during the 4 week rollout - competence is a system which pays people the right amount, at the right time. JPA is clearly somewhere outside that description, unless you prefix it with "partially".




Well said that man, if it was up to me I would sack the JPA board!!!

[Almost_done]

Having been directed to this rumour network,

Call me a cynic, but who directed you I wonder?

[number1matelot]

Call me a cynic, but who directed you I wonder?

Sgt RAF HR specialist. :ok:

[SirToppamHat]

Does anyone know when the Continuity Of Education Allowance (CEA - was BSA) is due to be paid for the forthcoming (Spring) Term?
STH

[number1matelot]

Does anyone know when the Continuity Of Education Allowance (CEA - was BSA) is due to be paid for the forthcoming (Spring) Term?
STH

I believe that a second pay run was done :ok: last wednesday to go into Bank on or just after 31 Dec 06.

[PompeySailor]

Call me a cynic, but who directed you I wonder?

Let's face it, it won't be any of the "IT experts" on the JPA team. They can barely find the "I/O" switch on the front of their DII machines without a feasibility study, 25 consultants and a JNCO to actually push the damn thing in for them.

[L J R]

Number 1 mate,

Although 'rudeness' may not be acceptable. There is no excuse WHATSOEVER for ANYTHING going wrong with pay FULL STOP!



...and yes the capitals are SHOUTING.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

well said that man! (target still underpaid by hundreds of pounds a month.... mortgage = painful!)

[SirToppamHat]

Thanks no1matelot, I will watch for that but am not holding my breath.

Regards

STH

[Ginseng]

Mine paid correctly today.

Regards

Ginseng

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Got mine too - although I was also fortunate enough not to suffer any problems last time around.

Cheers

SBG

[SirToppamHat]

Thanks all, I too have received payment in full today!

I should add that (due to a minor error on my part), were it not for my Chief Clerk I would have got about 10% less than the full amount, so thanks Anita!

Regards

STH

[N Joe]

No. 1

I have never been rude to JPAC or any other call centre and nothing I wrote suggested that I had been. If the system worked even reasonably well I doubt anyone else would be either. In fact, on the numerous times that I have called JPAC, the operators have generally seemed more frustrated at not being able to answer my questions than I have at receiving no answer.

My original comment was a simple list of quotes from the conversations so I don't see what there is to be baffled about. My quip about passing PompeySailor's regards to Heidi was an attempt at humour - something that is quite often used as a coping mechanism when faced with all types of adversity.

N Joe

[PompeySailor]

No. 1

I have never been rude to JPAC or any other call centre and nothing I wrote suggested that I had been. If the system worked even reasonably well I doubt anyone else would be either. In fact, on the numerous times that I have called JPAC, the operators have generally seemed more frustrated at not being able to answer my questions than I have at receiving no answer.

My original comment was a simple list of quotes from the conversations so I don't see what there is to be baffled about. My quip about passing PompeySailor's regards to Heidi was an attempt at humour - something that is quite often used as a coping mechanism when faced with all types of adversity.

N Joe

Amazing how the standards of "customer service" can differ. I asked a rep at Fred Olsen to send an email to the ship my father-in-law is on, wishing him a Happy Xmas, but I didn't send my email until late on Christmas Eve. She emailed back the day after Boxing Day, apologised for not being open on Christmas Day, and sent it straight afterwards. It cost nothing, except a little extra effort on her behalf, and the goodwill generated is worth at least two more group cruise bookings. It's the combination of little things that give a good impression. It wasn't her job, it was a favour, and she did Fred Olsen Lines proud.

In the case of JPA, it's the combination of continual errors that gives the overall impression. Given the huge pot of money, it has to be asked why the testing was not completed so that these errors were not made. How on earth can any competent organisation generate a pay run which can't even calculate the tax of a large percentage of the workforce properly? How can it fail to run simple 10% variance checks on monthly balances? How can they have failed to run the system silently in tandem for a couple of months, and the excuse about not having the time to double enter the data is crap. We managed it with the RN pay system and some simple ODBC procedures to pull monthly activity across into a test bed. We only got shut down because EDS had effectively bought Centurion and the pay system and wanted a tri-Service pay package that they could manage and run.

Heidi didn't even ask for my Service Number, and told me that I should be grateful as I had just been paid! Being "grateful" for being paid is a new one on me, especially as they owe me the money! I don't care whether Heidi had nice eyes or made the tea well, her customer service procedures were incompetent. You simply cannot answer a question on a system which runs on Service Numbers, without asking for someone's Service Number!

And you have to wonder about a system which has to ask me to confirm my address to raise a customer query, but then fails to send the pay slips to me.....

[ScapegoatisaSolution]

Isn't it sad when you hold your breath/cross your fingers/etc when checking your online bank balance for your pay and being grateful when it is there! Mine was there today minus £100 for an advance paid to me in Apr! End of my interest free loan...blast.

[RAFintheNAVY]

Since going live on JPA they owe me £1000, I was the lucky one. My fellow SAC-T's still have not recieved there SAC-T pay. One lad is now owed £4500. But due to working with the navy their pen pushers haven't got a clue what to do. Its has all been a major cluster f:mad:

[number1matelot]

Since going live on JPA they owe me £1000, I was the lucky one. My fellow SAC-T's still have not recieved there SAC-T pay. One lad is now owed £4500. But due to working with the navy their pen pushers haven't got a clue what to do. Its has all been a major cluster f:mad:

Unfortunately for the young lad, you are quite right the Navy HR personnel do not know what to do as we had no insight to that particular RAF problem prior to RN Go-Live. All these SAC-T problems should still be raised through RAF Innsworth as they are dealing with the legacy issues prior to transfer of their pay accounts.

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Hmmmm. Now the lunatics have REALLY taken over the asylum. Per the latest PTC 'T' letter (whatever that is) you now have to receipt everything you claim for under DS, NS and IE rather than anything over £5. :mad:
SBG

[mayorofgander]

So how do I get a receipt from the newspaper vendor at the railway station, the laundromat on a Sat morning and a Payphone for my 3 min phone call???:confused:

MOG:ugh:

[WPH]

Since going live on JPA they owe me £1000, I was the lucky one. My fellow SAC-T's still have not recieved there SAC-T pay. One lad is now owed £4500. But due to working with the navy their pen pushers haven't got a clue what to do. Its has all been a major cluster f:mad:

Well I just hope that your Flight Commander or Divisional Officer is doing all they can to sort your problem out. It is shameful that not only are we sending our SAC(T)s to work in the RN to fill their manning shortfalls we also can't manage to pay some of our lowest paid troops the money they've been promised.

I'm ashamed to say that this is yet another example of shocking treatment of our personnel who frankly deserve better.

[PompeySailor]

So how do I get a receipt from the newspaper vendor at the railway station, the laundromat on a Sat morning and a Payphone for my 3 min phone call???:confused:

MOG:ugh:

Improvise, adapt and overcome. Ask your Chief Clerk for a pad of receipts so that you can meet the current regulations. Once a couple of hundred people, at every unit, have gone in and asked for JPA-approved receipt books, someone might clutch-in somewhere and realise that this is another pointless exercise, designed solely to make it easier for you NOT to claim than to claim your entitlements.

If you can't find someone to sign the receipt, do what we have done since time immemorial. Get a mate to do it.

[FOMere2eternity]

Once a couple of hundred people, at every unit, have gone in and asked for JPA-approved receipt books, someone might clutch-in somewhere and realise that this is another pointless exercise, designed solely to make it easier for you NOT to claim than to claim your entitlements.

I still don't think you've grasped the idea behind JPA, have you Pompey? Also think you'll find those who make policy won't give a stuff about it being workable or not; they probably won't have asked anyone either.

[Ginseng]

Not strictly true, and based on a selective quoting of JSP 752. It is true that the specific exemption for any item under £5 appears to have been removed. It is also true that the underlying principle remains that all expenditure should be supported by receipts where they can reasonably be obtained. Nevertheless, the JSP continues to specifically recognise that it may not always be possible to obtain a receipt, especially for small items such as newspapers etc. What the JSP requires, and has always required you do in such circumstances, is to make and keep an itemised and signed list of all valid expenditure for which you cannot produce a receipt. In essence, nothing very much has changed, and anyone who tells you that the JSP says you must have a receipt for every penny is WRONG. The removal of the £5 limit could actually work in your favour, since it is not now open to anyone to argue that the JSP says you must, without fail, have a receipt for any item over £5 (but of course you must obtain one if it is reasonably possible to do so).

Regards

Ginseng

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Thanks Ginseng for your erudite answer. You've probably seen it, but for those that haven't here's the relevant parapraph from the T-letter:

"The new regulations confirm that the payment of actual costs makes it necessary for all expenditure (NS, DS and IE – other than IE for those hospitalised whilst on duty) to be supported both by receipts and supporting documentary authority to undertake the duty. As such, receipts are required for all expenditure where these can be reasonably obtained, albeit that it is recognised that obtaining some receipts, eg for newspapers, may be impractical."

The thrust of this issue goes back to a matter of time vs expense - how much is it costing HMG in terms of my time to account for (nearly) every damn penny spent on T&S? Added to the Audit/JPA clerk's time, surely flat rates are more economic to administer? It would make a difference, even if just for IE expenditure.

please don't think I'm having a go at you personally - you've been a constant source of advice and good sense on this subject.

Cheers

SBG

[BATS]

Interesting to note that during the recent debate about MPs expenses they moaned about having to receipt anything under £500 IIRC.....

Rules for one but not the other methinks......

BT

[Ginseng]

No problem.

The T-Letter paragraph which you quote (I hadn't seen it) is a direct lift from the JSP, but in isolation it is not quite all that the JSP has to say on the subject, hence my reference to selective quoting.

Regards

Ginseng

[number1matelot]

No problem.

The T-Letter paragraph which you quote (I hadn't seen it) is a direct lift from the JSP, but in isolation it is not quite all that the JSP has to say on the subject, hence my reference to selective quoting.

Regards

Ginseng

As an Auditor of claims I am perfectly happy that if you are unable to obtain a receipt for your newspaper from the vendor then when you retain all your receipts for the year in which you are required write a small note, probably no more than a couple of lines that you actually expended that amount of money. When/if you get audited the Auditor will be quite happy with the note as this has covered everything that you expended within the IE limit.

I think the whole purpose of the change to the JSP is to stop everyone on temporary assignment from claiming a flat rate £5. £5 is the limit. If you do not actually expend that amount of money then why should you be re-imbursed.

Also I may point out the a survey has been carried out into the true cost of a 3 minute phone call/newpaper/laundry. Phone call £1.90 for a three minute call using a BT charge card to a Mobile Phone. £0.65 for the Times(daily) and whatever your laundry cost bearing in mind that most Senior Ranks/Wardroom(Officers Mess) the laundry machines are free.

[ZH875]

Also I may point out the a survey has been carried out into the true cost of a 3 minute phone call/newpaper/laundry. Phone call £1.90 for a three minute call using a BT charge card to a Mobile Phone. £0.65 for the Times(daily) and whatever your laundry cost bearing in mind that most Senior Ranks/Wardroom(Officers Mess) the laundry machines are free.

That is OK if you are in a mess in the UK. or anywhere for that matter, but as you know, we RAF types much prefer hotels to land based ships.

I don't think a 3 min call to a mobile from the USA is £1.90, also most hotels charge for washers/driers.

I know the USA IE is upto £10, but if :mad: MPs do not have to provide a reciept (otherwise known as PROOF) for any amount, why should I create space for a year, for many months worth of reciepts for a 65p daily newspaper.?

[H5N1]

Heard today that the JPA staff may be going on strike, hmm question is how will we tell the difference!!??

[number1matelot]

That is OK if you are in a mess in the UK. or anywhere for that matter, but as you know, we RAF types much prefer hotels to land based ships.

I don't think a 3 min call to a mobile from the USA is £1.90, also most hotels charge for washers/driers.

I know the USA IE is upto £10, but if :mad: MPs do not have to provide a reciept (otherwise known as PROOF) for any amount, why should I create space for a year, for many months worth of reciepts for a 65p daily newspaper.?

Because they tell us to and if we don't we get to go and see the good old police and get charged with fraud when we get audited.:ugh:

[Avtur]

Currently in USA preoccupied with how I have to "manage" my capped actuals...It has created an accounting nightmare for an accounting ludite like me; ensured that among my friends and collegues we have to keep tabs on who had the popadoms, how many they had, when they had them, and how much they cost; pre-occupied us to the extent where just living and surviving away from home has defocused our concentration on the professional tasks that we were deployed to achieve.

Well done to the arse that imposed this system; you have succeded in destroying the limited and only perks of being continually detached from our families, focused our attention on the pointless aspects of accounting rather than the mission that we were deployed to achieve, and for ensuring that the Service now spends many pounds in order to save a few pennies.

[Banana Boy]

Avtur - Well said. After 9 months of suffering JPA, I can see only a deterioration in the conditions it has brought. Initially I was even prepared to give JPA the benefit of the doubt, after all, surely all those leaders who had told us we would see a real benefit in being 'able to take control' of our own admin, could not be speaking total hoop? Now I can see that it is quite the worse thing in my 22 yrs service.

I work in a NATO HQ, I do not have access to JPA in my workplace, I have to use a shared 56kbps dial-up connection in another building - even entering the simplest 2-line claim cannot be achieved in less than 30 minutes. It often takes me several weeks before I have time to put a claim in, several times I have experienced anomalies on JPA which have totally screwed the foreign exchange rates, international calls to the 'help' line to attempt to resolve issues have to be paid and accounted for (no military phone connection). I am lucky if the pay gets to my account in under a month after expenditure.

Take into account the inevitable audits (I am running at about a 25% rate) and JPA is taking up more of my work time than you would believe. It has now got so bad that I cannot spare time away from the desk to sort some of the issues and have found myself coming in off leave to sort JPA issues - I would not bother if I was not so out of pocket. I would actually like someone to send me one of those bloody annoying surveys on time management so I can itemize the waste of time JPA has become.

I heard last month that the Army are not going to let their chaps interface with JPA, but will have a trained corps to handle claims and admin for individuals - it is too important for said individuals to continue their jobs as soldiers apparently. Shame that the RAF do not act the same; I've had an idea!...we could fill in a blue claim form thingy... and pass it on to a section in the headquarters...and they could then credit an entitled amount to our bank accounts.... and then we could get on with our primary jobs!

Back to Avtur's point. JPA is pedigree rubbish that is getting worse and worse. It is the biggest 'push' factor that is going to make me take my coming option.

End of rant.

[number1matelot]

Avtur -
I work in a NATO HQ, I do not have access to JPA in my workplace, I have to use a shared 56kbps dial-up connection in another building - even entering the simplest 2-line claim cannot be achieved in less than 30 minutes. It often takes me several weeks before I have time to put a claim in, several times I have experienced anomalies on JPA which have totally screwed the foreign exchange rates, international calls to the 'help' line to attempt to resolve issues have to be paid and accounted for (no military phone connection). I am lucky if the pay gets to my account in under a month after expenditure.

Take into account the inevitable audits (I am running at about a 25% rate) and JPA is taking up more of my work time than you would believe. It has now got so bad that I cannot spare time away from the desk to sort some of the issues and have found myself coming in off leave to sort JPA issues - I would not bother if I was not so out of pocket. I would actually like someone to send me one of those bloody annoying surveys on time management so I can itemize the waste of time JPA has become.

I heard last month that the Army are not going to let their chaps interface with JPA, but will have a trained corps to handle claims and admin for individuals - it is too important for said individuals to continue their jobs as soldiers apparently. Shame that the RAF do not act the same; I've had an idea!...we could fill in a blue claim form thingy... and pass it on to a section in the headquarters...and they could then credit an entitled amount to our bank accounts.... and then we could get on with our primary jobs!

Back to Avtur's point. JPA is pedigree rubbish that is getting worse and worse. It is the biggest 'push' factor that is going to make me take my coming option.

End of rant.

Sorry to use your quotes, but this is what you do.1st point. If you do not have access to JPA where you work, E-mail your expenses to your Unit HR and get them to fill out the manual form that they can send up to JPAC. This should lessen the amount of time that you have to wait for your money.

2nd Point. Your 25% audit of claims is about right. 1 in 5 claims are audited so you are only 5% above the line. Bearing in mind that if you put in more that 4 claims per 30 days all your claims will be audited for a further 60 day period. Trick to remember here is to put more than one journey on each claim.

3rd Point. If you do take your coming option make sure that you don't work for the civil Service. Their Pay system (HRMS) is even worse than the one you are working on.:ouch:

[Pontius Navigator]

Civil Service. Their Pay system (HRMS) is even worse than the one you are working on.:ouch:

to use the seasonal vernacular: "Oh no it isn't."

I ger paid every month, on time and the correct amount. It a claim is slightly late they will run a second pay run and slip it in on time.

If I file a claim it is in the bank in two days. I have never been audited. If I am audited and the Taxman decides I have been paid too much the civil service will make up the difference.

I do not need to justify my PIE.

The only downside is I must keep receipts for 3 years not 12 months.

[L J R]

Civil servants do not have capped actulas, they just have actuals, and it includes Wine.

[Pontius Navigator]

Civil servants do not have capped actulas, they just have actuals, and it includes Wine.

Quite right, I forgot the half bottle of wine. Naturally this means you must dine with another CS - Mouton Cadet with the Fillet Mignon and Sautern with the desert.:}

[Mr C Hinecap]

I heard last month that the Army are not going to let their chaps interface with JPA, but will have a trained corps to handle claims and admin for individuals - it is too important for said individuals to continue their jobs as soldiers apparently.

I'd be very interested if that were possible - seeing as many of the transactions on JPA are to be by the individual - and that is password access. One of the airships at a secret Bucks HQ directed his outer office staff to do this work - and they were unable to as it is personal entry only. I'd always feared the workload it would put on our Army privates (and airships of course).

[ExJAFAD]

From what I understand at my unit, Banana Boy is quite correct, When privates want to use JPA and enter data they will be sat with a HR staff member who will tell them what to do. They have been told that they will not have solo access and will be baby sat for 100% of the access time.

From what I have heard from mates in other Joint units the same is true with them as well.

[cutiebambootie]

Numner1matelot, you rock and actually know what you are talking about. Very well done!

[number1matelot]

Numner1matelot, you rock and actually know what you are talking about. Very well done!

Many thanks for the vote of confidence.:D

[debsh]

BBC Look North have just run a long item on JPA. Various claims on no pay, inaccurate pay with e-mail from a Rockape who said he was fed-up with sitting in a hole in the sand being shot t whilst his wife and family hadn't received the money to pay for food or the morgage.
MoD stated that the system functions well and that 99% of pay and allowances were delivered correctly in December.
This did not apparently tie up with the Beeb's information; they interviewed a Tory MP from Yorkshire who is tabling questions in the House; they also had several quotes from what was discreetly described as a RAF forum.
Maybe something will happen as said Tory MP was getting agitated about the planned roll-out to the Army later in the year.
This had all the hallmarks of a carefully planned assault - any other regions carry a similar report?

[SirToppamHat]

and whatever your laundry cost bearing in mind that most Senior Ranks/Wardroom(Officers Mess) the laundry machines are free.

Err no they're not. They are paid for and maintained by Mess members through Subscriptions and Bar Profits. I think it appropriate to claim Mess Subs when visiting another mess, but I hadn't considered claiming the 'profit' element of the bar purchases.

STH

[Mead Pusher]

Err no they're not. They are paid for and maintained by Mess members through Subscriptions and Bar Profits. I think it appropriate to claim Mess Subs when visiting another mess, but I hadn't considered claiming the 'profit' element of the bar purchases.

STH

But they should be - they are scaled items and should be publically funded through the Works Services budget.

Talk to Catering Ops at STC if you want to know the truth!

[Been There...]

But they should be - they are scaled items and should be publically funded through the Works Services budget.

Talk to Catering Ops at STC if you want to know the truth!

As maybe but I have never lived in a mess where the livers in haven't had to pay a laundy charge for the upkeep of the washing machines.

[Widger]

Put my first travel claim in this week. In the bank within 2 days...:ok: :ok: Progress. Now....if they can just sort out my GYH they did not pay me Nov/Dec.....

[mbga9pgf]

Put my first travel claim in this week. In the bank within 2 days...:ok: :ok: Progress. Now....if they can just sort out my GYH they did not pay me Nov/Dec.....


Just wait till you get back off that 4 month det to find out that they Audited you 3 months ago... and find your in-tray lots of snotty letters from PSF... :mad:

[Rotation Time]

I think JPA is slowly sorting itself out, but there is a servere lack of adminers all round!

[LFFC]

I think JPA is slowly sorting itself out, but there is a servere lack of adminers all round!

You really think so? I'm still owed hundreds from 6 months ago, I wish someone would sort that out for me!

Just wait for the next surprise which I understand is just around the corner!

[Rotation Time]

Just wait for the next surprise which I understand is just around the corner![/quote]

Do you know something I dont?

[mayorofgander]

I still owe them thousands....:p

At 4 days gross per month...:D

Only 19 months to go till paid back!!!:ok:

MOG:cool:

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

I owe them £8400 from a double CEA payment. They asked me to send them a cheque for the full amount - yeah right!
4 days gross pay me thinks - and I've PVR'd so they better be quick!

[Avtur]

Unfortunately repaying "them" at no more than four days gross pay per month quietly slid down the toilet when JPA arrived, and in came the "we will take everything you owe us in one payment you git" way of treating people.

Proud to serve.

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

I've had the money since August and they still haven't started to recover it yet. Did get a phone call on Thursday though and the HR clerk gave me a the address to send a cheque with full payment. I told her that I wanted it to be deducted from salray at maximum rate and she confirmed that JSP 754 states that recoveries are to be at a maximum of 4 day's gross pay.

HPT

[psy clops]

4 days gross pay me thinks - and I've PVR's so they better be quick!Sadly you'll have it deducted from your final salary, or if that's not enough from your gratuity. But I guess you knew that...

Been there!

[mayorofgander]

Unfortunately repaying "them" at no more than four days gross pay per month quietly slid down the toilet when JPA arrived, and in came the "we will take everything you owe us in one payment you git" way of treating people.

4 days gross per month it is....dunno where you get your info.
They cannot take it back in one lump as they have to recover it gross and I've already paid the tax on it...so that would make me about £3K down and that would never do.

I did ask to repay the net amount in full, but the maths was too difficult for them and their accountability!!!

Was given the option of
a) full gross recovery in next payslip...hence £3K down but a bit less tax for a while until it sorts itself out.
b) send a cheque to JPA in Pompey then advise debt management in Glasgow. Can't see that going smoothly.
c) 4 days gross per month recovered prior to the tax calc being applied.

19 months still to pay!!!!

MOG

[rudekid]

My pay packet hasn't been correct for 10 months now (including the Jan 07 pay-run online) and I am getting to the end of my tether.

Anyone had any joy with a formal letter/redress action to resolve the problem? The Sqn adjutant has made a load of attempts to resolve this and nothing's been done. I've taken the baton up myself and received three different references each promising to reply within ten days.... Guess what?:ugh:

I am thoroughly sick of it and am going to take action, however was wondering if anyone had any resolution and a proven method?

Cheers

RK

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

I submitted a formal complaint to AFPAA - your chief clerk will have the details. They failed to reply, so I redressed and strangely enough it got resolved.
HPT

[L J R]

A friend of a friend also did what HPT did. NEVER give up. Keep the original letter of complaint and re-send it to as many addresses as you can find. Admin nauzze yes, but clutter the system with stats and someone will finally acknowledge that the complaints charter is utterly utterly useless.


BTW - the friend's complaint was finally answered by a Lt Col who got the right address but used the stations name at the beginning.

Dear Squadron Leader Boscombe, - Not his name!

I apologise for your inconvenience, etc... Priceless!

[rudekid]

HPT and LJR

Thanks for the info. I was thinking about a formal letter but didn't want to do it through my Boss, as it's not directly his problem and he has enough on his plate at the moment. Will look in the AFPAA option.

Luckily I'm not losing a massive amount of money each month and we're a double income household. I really pity the SAC/Cpl who is going through this-those margins may not be as comfortable as mine. I wonder what the figures really are...

[Cumbrian Fell]

Whitegoods - washing machines and dryers - can be publicly funded under the Tri-Service Accommodation Regulations (TSARs). However, unless pubblic funds are available, mess members will probably continue to fund these for a little while longer. Bring it up at a Mess Meeting; at least you don't face the attractive add-on present in Pongo Messes of a Laundry Charge - just to change your sheets!!!!!

[N Joe]

Left the RAF a couple of weeks ago and pleased to say that my gratuity arrived today. Came as something of a surprise though as JPAC informed me last week that all my termination paperwork had been lost so I needed to re-submit it and would not see anything for at least a month.

JPAC seems to have even more problems than JPA!

N Joe

[Wyler]

Left the RAF on 31 Nov last year. Started new job as Sim instructor the next day. Still waiting for my P45. First call I was told, wait a month and, if no joy, come back to us and we will start an investigation. Month is up so phoned them back. No record of my enquiry or any promise of an investigation. No P45 because now it's a problem with the printer.

I am now convinced that JPA recruit only those who have failed the auditions for Big Brother and the X-Factor. Useless, lieing b@stards to a man (or woman).

The office I am in has over 12 blue suiters. Every single one has some form of problem with allowances, disappearing pay etc. Every one has been told that an investigation is ongoing.

Shambles.

[stickmonkeytamer]

I need to make a complaint as my pay has not been correct for several months now. It has fluctuated by £100s, but never caught up. They "only" owe me about £700 now, but I am at the end of my tether. The JPA helpline say that they cannot sort it and to speak with my HR people. My HR people say that they do not have the authority to correct it and that I have to go back to the JPA peeps. Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Co-ordinates for thr JPA building would allow a new crater to be made, thus improving not only a part of Glasgow, but the general morale of the 3 Services... Who is going to put a 2000lber in there first? Dare you!!

SMT

[mbga9pgf]

SMT, check yer PMs me old...

[airborne_artist]

SMT - I think the covert approach may yield more results - I can form a team for your task asap. Close target recce report to follow, with a list of options for proposed offensive action :E

[stickmonkeytamer]

Mbga9pgf- thanks very much for your offer. Airborne_artist- I look forward to the report...

By the way, has everyone else seen the "freebies" handed out by JPA- a little yellow beachchair to hold your mobile phone in, with their telephone numbers on it... If I knew how to put a photo of it on here, I would, just to let you see what they are really investing in!:ugh:

SMT

[Avtur]

I think it is time to swamp the system with small claim court summons to claim back what is rightfully ours. If we owe JPA, it is taken in full with no notice. If they owe us, then JPAC and local HR compete equally to absolve themselves of any responsibility... Don't forget to claim interest on the amount owed at the extant Bank of England base rate as permitted by the small claims system.

Bring it on...

[Wyler]

SMT.

I never had a correct pay statement for my last 6 months in the RAF. I was owed over £1000.00 at the end. I too, got caught in the wheel of death between JPA and local HR. In the end I let loose at my local HR and, in my case, the Dep Chief Clerk took over and he got it sorted. It is much better coming from them than you as an individual.
A Fg Off here was owed £700.00 and JPA were giving her the runaround so, in the end, she got local HR to give her the money hence making the owed money there problem.
As an aside, JPA asked the said Fg Off to send in all her pay statements for the last 6 months so they could check to see what they had paid her!!!!!:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[SidHolding]

Hope I never get asked that as I've only had approx half of my paper pay slips!!! :ugh:

[stickmonkeytamer]

I've just had JPA personnel ask for my payslips from April 06 onwards as well so that they can see what they have paid me. :ugh:

Anyone fancy a coup?

SMT

[Wrathmonk]

And yet when I asked via the JPA Help Desk for duplicate pay statements for those that had been "lost in the post" I was told to just print off the ones from JPA! They must be able to do the same rather than ask for the originals back??:ugh:

[Wyler]

Just had a straw poll amongst the 11 peeps in the office and it comes to a total(ish) of over £6500.00 gone amiss across all their pay. One other has been overpaid £1150.00.


WTF!!!!

As an aside, now that I am a spineless leech of an MOD Civil Servant I have had two pay problems rectified withing 4 hours. That is from highlighting the problem to the money actually appearing in my account.

[mbga9pgf]

Oh joy of joys.... and its going to get oh-so-better when around 150,000 squaddies go on the payroll fo JPA isnt it!!!!

:ugh:

[Wyler]

Yep. More than three buttons and all the same colour.

I bet you will be able to hear the crash on the moon.:E

[PompeySailor]

A month and a half after drifting out of the door, I have now been paid correctly. My LSAP, that they took too much of, has been credited to my account - not sure why they had to wait until a main pay day when JPA was supposed to be "pay asap" system! I have all the right paperwork, and everything is now squared. This is despite being told that I could have to wait up to 90 days, that JPA was unable to give me dates or stick within published guidelines, and finally phoning my house to solve my JPAC query and giving all the details to my wife! Data Protection with a whole new twist. However, I believe that my threats of a small claims court appearance had no little influence on the final outcome, especially as I threw it up to a 2* "for info".

I am glad that I am away from this now, and I pity those of you who are going to have to cope with the Army coming on line as well. You are legally entitled to the money that they are cocking up, and if you have tried the formal complaints/redress avenues, and beyond reasonable delay you have not been paid correctly, then there is nothing stopping you issuing the paperwork to the Secretary of State for further action.

[ninefromten]

On checking last months pay discovered my basic pay was some £200 down. The system was supposed to make life easier by dividing annual pay into 12 equal installments, and they can't even get that right. It has been the same for the last 9 months so why a change now. The helpful?? people at JPAC haven't got a clue and said that there has been a slight glitch. Asking around our small unit found that 3 others also down by the same amount.

[stickmonkeytamer]

JPAC said that the reason for the moneu coming out of my account was that the computer said that I had been paid too much, but they did not know what it was for. Not acceptable to me!
They ended the response with "Thankyou for contacting the JPAC helpdesk!...:ugh:
SMT

[Wyler]

First they told me to wait a month. Then they told me there was a problem printing them. Today they have given me a reference number and told me they are launching an investigation. Wait another 10 days.:ugh: :ugh:

Disgraceful. Abso-bloody-lutely-disgraceful.:mad:

Yesterday, yet another glossy arrived in the office detailing the latest management/command chains complete with photo's of chaps with more scrambled egg than a transport cafe. All for the benefit of streamlining and 'delivering' for the front line. What a load of crap. Too many Chiefs, with MBA's in Wank Word Bingo, and not enough Indians.

So glad I am out of it....apart from my P45 of course.:*

[N Joe]

Left last month and just started new job. Phoned JPAC last Wednesday to chase my P45 and it arrived yesterday. Obviously the printer's fixed!

N Joe

[L J R]

You all MUST put in a letter of complaint.!!!! - Don't expect much of a reply, but the stats will be counted.


Only then will those who know (or don't know) get the message that the system is flawed.

The letter will take you 10 minutes. Do it for the good of all of you!

[Level 28]

Left the RAF on 31 Nov last year. Started new job as Sim instructor the next day. Still waiting for my P45. First call I was told, wait a month and, if no joy, come back to us and we will start an investigation. Month is up so phoned them back. No record of my enquiry or any promise of an investigation. No P45 because now it's a problem with the printer.


Wyler, the investigation will probably centre on how you managed to leave on 31 Nov. You've given the computer a right ol headache trying to work that one out......:ugh:


:cool:

[Wyler]

D'oh :O :O :O

[stickmonkeytamer]

Now it is our chance to say what we think...:ok:

To assist the RAF team to gather as much "meaningful" data as possible, JPAC EC operators will soon be asking RAF callers to the JPAC EC to leave a contact number in case the individual is called back. In response to feedback received by AMP's Liaison Team, a team of 6 RAF personnel will be deployed to the JPAC EC to assist AFPAA in gaining a better understand of the issues affecting RAF personnel using the EC, before working with AFPAA to deliver improvements identified. The RN will also be carrying out an identical exercise for their personnel.:E

In order to asses exactly what issues are affecting RAF personnel, a telephone survey of recent RAF users of the JPAC EC will be carried out by the RAF team. They will call users approx 48 hrs after they used the EC and will ask them a series of questions about the service they received. They will aim to speak to as many callers as they possibly can and the call is not expected to last more than 15 minutes. It is important to note that they will not be there to "fix" an individual's issue(s).:=

This activity will take place between 12 - 17 Feb and 26 Feb - 2 Mar 07 and will be based on calls received into the JPAC. Only by this independent RAF team collecting meaningful data can the RAF establish exactly what needs to be improved, rather than what everyone thinks needs to be improved, and work with AFPAA and the other Services to put the right measures in place.:=

Nothing ventures, nothing gained! They have to bring in the service personnel as they cannot work out what the problems are themselves. Only we can make the difference now.

As they say in the fighter world:

"Fight's on, fight's on"!

SMT

[H5N1]

Has anyone else had problems with getting their increment level paid. Mine was due 1st Jan and after another un-productive fob off from the JPACC i-support line I have since been told that as no one has ticked my 'satisfactory report box' I'm not entitled to my increment. This has come as news to my HR dept as they have never heard of such a thing. I'm assuming I can't be the only person on Stn to have had an increment rise since April last year so believe my HR dept when they tell me this is all a load of mince. This doesn't help me get my money though as JPACC insists this is correct and keep closing my i-support queries.

Since JPA came into being I have yet to have a month go by when I haven't had a pay (or other query) outstanding, they even managed to cock up my pay up for March 06 a month before they even came online now that's some achievement. I have been waiting for several months for allowances to be paid from courses. My HR unit are about to be admitted on mass to the priory due to the constant lies JPACC spews out. The pinnacle being when after a long running i-support dispute the Stn Chf Clk was asked to fax all of my i-support queries to them as they couldn't find them!!! There have been days when I've actually spent longer trying to sort out my pay/allowances etc than I have in my primary duty. :ugh:

[snakepit]

H5N1,

Thanks for the tip. Just checked my payslip and I haven't been given my increment on 01 Jan. Don't think I would have noticed for months.

Ho hum, wonder how long it will take to sort out?

[foldingwings]

It's been a while since I posted on PPRuNe but this, today, took the absolute biscuit!

I have the unbounded pleasure of being on annual leave and resettlement before I commence my terminal leave in a couple of months time. MOD have very kindly permitted me, and are prepared to fund, 2 excellent courses that will set me up for my leisure retirement after a lifetime in the RAF. So, I occasionally go to work to sort out the paperwork and submit the necessary applications on JPA and in PSF etc. 2 courses equals 2 advances; neither course happens until late March but, keen to get everything in order, I'm ready and the paperwork and advance applications (on JPA) are complete.

Sadly, JPA appears to be unable to cope with 2 simultaneous advances and, having received them both duly authorised by my PSF, have decided that the first should be cancelled against its 'credit note' from the second with the end result that no money gets paid into my bank account!!!!! . It will take them 10 days to sort the problem out and get the money to my bank.

You couldn't script it! It just gets better.

Last year, if you'd asked me if I was ready to leave the Service after 37 years, I would have said no! This year? Try holding me back!

[Fat Dog Mendoza]

As I have been out of the country since JPA arrived on our shores, I am not up to speed with the goings on (or lack of) for JPA within the RAF.
Sadley they did not pay my LSP (Loan Service Pay) for Jan 07. After numerous calls to JPAC and SDLO, I am no further forward, as others have said before me, one blames the other and I remain £500+ out of pocket.
SDLO contacted JPAC on my behalf at the end of January, 10 days later and no reply, now today JPAC tell me they will let me know in 10 days???:confused:
It appears the next course of action is a letter to AMP, it has worked before, just pi**es me off that I am now overdrawn and getting cash from UK is expensive. Can I claim back the costs etc?
Like other, until recently I was 'happy' with my lot......however coming to the end of my tether.

[neilmac]

LOL i tried to resist having a rant!! I was posted to Scotland and to a SSSA flat. However being single having loads of kit and personnel stuff over my 18 year career a van was hired then driven back down to England so I could pick my car up! Cost to me personally , around £450 I got £100 back did the reverse 4 months later...same score!! So cos Im male and single I was £700 down in 2 journeys!! I told HR staff and HR peeps to cancel my SSSA , they never did so now Im paying through the teeth for arrears, Amazing why I am hacked off with a employer who I have done detachments in 2 war zones treats me!!

LOL rant switch off!!

[Stuff]

neilmac: To be fair, nothing that's happened to you is the fault of JPA. The same situation would have occurred before because it's the allowances that are the problem not the system delivering them. (But £100 sounds very low, you should be able to claim unacompanied baggage + 1 private car rate for the move - I think....)

With regard to the HR people not cancelling your flat, you will have put it in writing to them so there will be an audit trail and you can claim the arrears back! Sorted! :O

[neilmac]

Stuff,

Im afraid its either umaccompanied baggage OR motor milage!! You cannot claim both! No I infomrmed JPAC but they have no record that I had, unfortunately it was around the date Mar/Apr when they took over. Asked JPAC to invetigate my arrears 20 days ago now....no response!! So when I checked they said they had a backlog.

[Stuff]

I've just read JSP 752 and you are indeed right. I always thought you could claim both. What a sh*t system. Not only can you not claim the full cost of moving it yourself (it's capped to the DTMA rate) but you can't even move your car! I wonder if it was designed for Cavalry Officers who throw their car away everytime they move and buy a new one?

Your reply has been logged and my apology will be with you within 10 working days.

[My T Hunter]

Stuff/Neilmac
I'm in a similar situation myself shortly and am intending to claim both unaccompanied baggage, and separately, MMA for my own physical move. I interperate the JSP as saying that MMA can not be claimed for your baggage's journey, so if you moved permanantly at the same time as your kit nothing more could be claimed. However, if you then have to make another journey for your own physical move (if you had to return to departure station to drop off hired van, or if you used private removals) you can then claim MMA for this journey. As the phrase is unaccompanied baggage I assumed that they would expect you to move sperately from your kit.
Anybody out there able to offer further clarification?
Also I reckon £100 to be a bit low I reckon it's receipted expenses for the baggage move up to a max of £289.50 (Page 7-2-6 of JSP752)

[PPRuNeUser0211]

MyT... am with you on this. If you don't claim unaccompanied baggage you're allowed MMA to drive to your new posting, plus a return journey from your new post to your old one to pick up your gear and bring it to your new home. If you claim unaccompanied, you should be entitled to the cost of driving yourself to your new post, plus the cost of unaccompanied baggage (up to 3 triwall boxes or whatever it's changed to nowadays!)

Not sure what the score is on hiring a van now as I've always moved with a hugely practical car into which all of my personal belongings can fit, being sad, single and poor!

[C130 Techie]

My T Hunter

You are correct. Provided you claim for your duty move and baggage journeys seperately there is no problem.

I have done so twice in the last 2 years without any hassle. If I remember correctly this claim is still done manually by PSF/HR. There is some paperwork to be signed up at the unit you are leaving then you take the completed paperwork and receipts to your new unit and the claim is actioned by them.

For the baggage move you can use your own car and claim petrol provided you keep the receipts. You can make as many journeys as you need up to the allowance. Alternatively you can claim the allowance to hire a van.

[N Joe]

"Left last month and just started new job. Phoned JPAC last Wednesday to chase my P45 and it arrived yesterday. Obviously the printer's fixed!"

Two weeks on and the second one arrived today. Don't you love JPAC!

N Joe

[neilmac]

Yeah I dont know the score, I trusted my so called experts who told me the gen. Oct 05 moved to Scotland , only could claim MMA or unaccompanied baggage. It cost me £450 I got £100 back!! Then 4 oonths later I did the reverse journey!! So total £900 and i got i total from RAF £200, after 20 years paying my own way, reallly really grates. Single white male nowt in your favour!! when a married couple moving 60 miles can claim an amazing amount olf money!!

Rant over!!