RAF JPA Rollout [Archive] - Page 4

SirToppamHat

6th Jun 2006, 21:49

How do I make an official complaint?
I guess it depends on your rank. You will want to get your complaint in writing to the Station Commander, and whilst that may seem straightforward, putting it in the internal mail marked 'Personal for Station Commander' may put noses out of joint in your chain of command, so it may be worthwhile starting lower down but making sure that whoever you deal with knows that you want to complain to your Station/Unit Commander.
In putting together your complaint, you must be as dispassionate as possible. Gather the facts and explain what the impact of these are on you. State what steps you have taken so far and why these have been unsuccessful. Finally, explain what you want the Staish to do about it. You might try something along the lines of:
Sir
I wish to make a formal complaint about the impact that the introduction of the JPA System has had on me. The details of my grievances are as follows:
a. I have not been paid according to entitlement for 3 months. Up until 30 Jun 06, I am owed £375.80 basic pay, £175.00 in flying pay.
b. I have been charged for food and accommodation since 1 Apr 06, despite the fact that I have not lived in Service accommodation of any type since 2002, with the exception of the 3 weeks I spent aboard HMS Ocean in 2003. These deductions total £587.20 between 1 Apr 06 and 30 Jun 06.
c. I have been informed by the Human Resources staff that my Next of Kin Details are incorrect. However, I have been unable to access the system personally because there is no PC in my workplace.
2. In total, I calculate that I am owed £1138. Repeated attempts to contact the JPAC and JPA Helpdesk have been unsuccessful because they always promise to call me back but cannot be specific about time, and all their attempts to contact me have occurred when I have been airborne.
3. Whilst the amount I am owed may seem small, the impact this has had on me and my family have been significant. I have even had to cancel my son's planned dental treatment. I am now at the limit of a recently agreed overdraft facility, and concerned that my personal indebtedness may make me a target for Hostile Intelligence Services. The advice I have received from the Citizens Advice Bureau is that I contact my Member of Parliament. However, I do not wish to take this course of action until all other options have been exhausted.
4. I would be grateful if you could take up my case formally with the appropriate authorities so that I may concentrate fully on preparing for my forthcoming detachment to Iraq.
I Have the Honour to Be, Sir
Your Obedient Servant,
J O BLOGGS
Flight Lieutenant
I suspect that will get his/her attention.

Sorry if it wasn't a serious question, but hopefully this will benefit someone. Going straight to your MP or the RAF News will have little impact if you haven't tried this first. Of course you can always ask for an interview with the AOC during the next AFI (has anyone ever done that I wonder??)

STH

Tombstone

6th Jun 2006, 21:59

STH,

that letter would certainly attract immediate attention! I've already advised one of the troops on the Sqn I work on to pop into OC Admin office and state that JPA was causing him financial hardship after a lack of payments from good old JPA. Worked a treat as he was issued with a cheque before COP that day.

Ridiculous that you have to go to those levels however, the bottom line is that nobody else can help you, not even the Chief Clerk...

The Monkey

7th Jun 2006, 06:06

I am 93 days into my Det and waiting for my allowances to kick in. At 37 pounds a day (no pound sign - US computer) thats going to be a fat check! Thank you JPA, you're the best!:D

Brown Job

7th Jun 2006, 06:06

In the JPA Cusomer Care Trifold for the EC there is an email address for official complaints, it is,

AFPAA Support

They are meant to respond to you within 10 working days .....I'm still waiting.

What scares me more are the highly complicated instructions you are getting from JPA about how to carry out of certain actions such as put in for an advance. If I find them difficult to understand the Fus Jock McSpatstrap 2 SCOTS hasn't a chance of being able to administer himself and I think the EC staff may have to attend anger management and stress reduction courses!:sad:

MostlyHarmless

7th Jun 2006, 11:15

From the latest Eye...
Like previous EDS cock-ups, this one too is generating "Cost Overruns". Disclosures under the Freedom of information act show the JPA budget to have risen from £112m to £163m in 18 months on a deal that was not competitively tendered but awarded as an "amendment" to an existing contract two years ago.
:suspect:

5thMetatarsal

7th Jun 2006, 12:00

RAF's new pay system nosedives
Scotland on Sunday, 1, p 10
04-06-2006
By Brian Brady Westminster Editor
HUNDREDS of Royal Air Force pilots and ground crew have found a new enemy in a catalogue of computer blunders that has left them without pay and valuable expenses.
The "teething problems" with the new computer payroll system, designed to improve payments to the RAF's 48,000 servicemen and women, has forced some to dip into savings or rely on families for support.
The Joint Administration System, introduced less than two months ago, has quickly descended into farce as baffled personnel received too much money, too little or none at all.
The multi-million pound network, provided by American computer giant EDS, continually crashed as frustrated pilots, air and ground crews tried to log on to track down payments.
Glasgow-based helpline workers were besieged with angry calls and hundreds of complaints have been posted on the pilots' own unofficial websites.
One frustrated airman was shocked to read on his pay-slip that he had paid almost GBP 1000 to charity last month.
"I viewed my pay statement yesterday and it was completely screwed up," he said. "Charity contributions had caused deductions of GBP 980. After phoning about it a smug civvy took great delight in telling me that it was being fixed and not to bother them until next week... before promptly hanging up."
The Ministry of Defence now faces demands to launch an investigation into what went wrong before the same system is rolled out to the Royal Navy and Army.
Ministers have said there are no plans to seek compensation in the latest public sector IT fiasco to embarrass the Government. EDS is the firm responsible for past Labour embarrassments including the controversial Pension Credit computer system and software for child support payments.
Work and Pensions Secretary John Hutton recently faced calls to pull the plug on the GBP 456m CSA computer system after a raft of blunders, while EDS was forced to compensate the Government when more than GBP 130m was accidentally overpaid to pensioners.
Shadow defence secretary Dr Liam Fox has urged the Government to ensure other personnel will not be left high and dry by the roll-out.
He said: "This sounds like yet another administration disaster zone that we have become used to under the current Government. Our forces have enough to deal with without the added burden of administrative incompetence."
EDS declined to comment last night, but officials at the MoD insisted that "early technical issues" had been anticipated because of the "scale and complexity" of the system.

ANAPROP

7th Jun 2006, 17:44

For those who might be on a long det, and anticipate putting a large expenses claim in, the maximum number of entries appears to be 201 (I am reliably informed). After that some weired shi'ite starts to happen...you have been warned.:eek:

Ginseng

7th Jun 2006, 19:52

Another change slipped into JSP 752 says that those who hold a GPC should use it to pay for subsistence rather than claim an advance of subsistence rates. Now call me thick (I dare you!), but as a GPC holder I still have the MoD finance instruction that tells me that, as a Serviceman, I cannot use my GPC to pay for my own subsistence. Am I missing a vital amendment, or has Mr C**k-Up been busy again this month? How can a JSP direct me to do something that MoD Finance says I can't do?

Confused? You should be

Regards

Ginseng

rjw500

8th Jun 2006, 10:10

Ginseng,
Can you post a link that will take me to the Hansard link concerning Cameron's JPA question?
Thanks

Mr B

8th Jun 2006, 16:21

I am now $3000 out of pocket, and with no certainty as to when I am going to be paid. Yesterday I sent an official letter of Complaint to JPAC and to my OC Admin. I also took the step of E-Mailing my MP, to ask our beloved Prime Mister what the ---k is going on.

ZH875

8th Jun 2006, 17:47

but as a GPC holder I still have the MoD finance instruction that tells me that, as a Serviceman, I cannot use my GPC to pay for my own subsistence.I was issued my GPC card solely that I could use it for my own Travel and Subsistence, so the rules must state that you can. I have never had any questions when handing the paperwork to the beancounters.

SirToppamHat

8th Jun 2006, 19:32

rjw500

In the absence of Ginseng I did a tiny amount of searching and came up with this:

Cameron's JPA Question? (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2006-06-02a.72639.h&s=speaker%3A10777)

Not sure if it was what you are looking for.

Regards

STH

Ginseng

8th Jun 2006, 20:14

Yes, that was it. Sorry for misquoting the figures; it has only cost £116 Million so far - clearly a bargain!:rolleyes:

Regards

Ginseng

MostlyHarmless

9th Jun 2006, 08:45

Yeah, but with a budget of £163m. Anyone want to take a bet that they won't blow thru that soon, anyway??

D-IFF_ident

10th Jun 2006, 01:20

I just got my May pay statement. Although I think the cash that arrived in my bank was about right, I'm not sure; my statement suggests that I was paid £148, and my PAYE was........ £148.

Now I'm very confused.

There were over 6500 personnel incorrectly paid at the end of April; around 14%. This is true - a bloke in the pub told me.

Danny_Boy

11th Jun 2006, 15:57

JPA's statement of purpose 2006

"JPA's unique aspirational culture and entrepreneurial teams are creating a multi-faceted international recruitment business, respected by our customers and competitors alike."

Yep, plenty of Servicemen waiting to be recruited by someone else as our treatment by the top brass gets worse and worse! www.j-p-a.co.uk (http://www.j-p-a.co.uk)

The Masked Geek

12th Jun 2006, 07:43

QUOTE "During the early states of the JPA implementation, EDS told the RAF that JPA couldn't do the things they wanted it to, hadn't been tested in the configuration that we were using and generally wouldn't work. They were promptly ignored by the Officers in 'charge' of the project."

Wyler

12th Jun 2006, 08:08

My pay has been wrong for both months. Luckily (?) the error is in my favour. Spoke to the Help Desk last Friday. The young lady did not have a clue. Still, look on the bright side, she was cheap to hire and I have a reference number.
My CV hits the streets very soon. The straw that broke...etc etc.

MilSpFunc

12th Jun 2006, 15:10

Sorry to hear that JPA has caused you to go, by the time you get out it should all be sorted - or is it the loss of faith that is causing this decision?

fantaman

12th Jun 2006, 16:41

Tried to resist posting on this thread but I'm afraid I've had it with JPA. I'm now £2400 out of pocket and no further forward than I was when I started out trying to get it cleared up.

Put an SR in two weeks ago and was assured someone from the elusive back office (pay office) would call me back to me within 48 hours. It would now appear they have 10 working days to get back to you with any JPA issues, great stuff knobs!

They also suggest you try the three numbers for the back office 3695, 3693 and 3641. If you can get a hold of anyone on any of them I'll give you my £2400!

Its about time the Sun got a hold of this story ands shamed the utter c:mad:ts for this debacle! I'm livid with the state of JPA.

£2400 out of pocket wouldn't be so bad if I was a high earner like a Sqn Ldr or Wing Co but I'm an SAC. No wonder people want to PVR! :ugh:

fantaman

12th Jun 2006, 16:49

How do I make an official complaint?
Ha, tried that. The guys who run the complaint desk at Gosport dont want to know!

If they cant get your pay right, what hope have you got of making a complaint!

Pontius Navigator

12th Jun 2006, 16:54

Not JPA but the notorious Trevor F.

Seems that Army and Navy English units have gained invaluable PR supporting some football competition or other. TF wants to know about any RAF unit also gaining illicit press coverage, not, he hastened to add, so it could be stopped but so that centre was in the picture.

My email box was flooded with emails from the borders and north and not a peep from Spadeadam south. Seems they are overjoyed at Spade that Carlisle has gained promotion.

Pulse, finger :\

dallas

12th Jun 2006, 17:18

No idea

13th Jun 2006, 19:13

So what Cameron was told in Parliament is true - there have been no official complaints about JPA.

Because nobody will accept them.

C'mon papers - you've got to be able to use that!

As for TF, I think he nicely sums up why I'm desperate to go just as soon as I get to 22. Being positive is one thing, but not just because it'll do the career good - that's how we end up getting fcuked over all the time!

When they were talking about formal complaints they were referring to Redress of Complaint. None have been received by either the blunty casework staff or direct to AFPAA. So get writing them Redresses before they can be ruled out of time (remember the 90 day rule!!!)

charlie55

14th Jun 2006, 06:58

I can't say I've ever thought too well of the RAF administration system, not the boys and girls in SHQ, but the way the whole system functions. In 30 years there has always been something wrong, but mostly it has been rectifiable by some individual that you can find, if you have the time. I suppose I've quite enjoyed funding my fun myself and then claiming the cost back. Has anyone ever worked out how much this saved the MoD?

JPA breaks new ground in administration. The fact that no beta testing was done (evidently), indeed no-one with half a clue about service admin even cast an eye over what EDS was about to perpetrate, is indicative of the brave new world in which we live. Well I'm off, and glad to be so. No doubt it will all be sorted out eventually, over budget and well beyond any target date. Will EDS get to pay for their incompetence? No, because they covered their backsides by saying the product they developed was not fit for purpose.

I would encourage those of you who are frustrated to write to your MP, virtually nothing else will have any effect, as the brick wall is already built.

MilSpFunc

14th Jun 2006, 08:14

Charlie 55 - sadly it is not as you suggest, there were a whole raft of Service SME's involved in the development and there was testing conducted by selected individuals from all 3 Services. Faults were patched on the fly during testing and the application was launched despite the shortcomings identified. Apparently every deadline in the project was allowed to slip except the launch date.

Doc Martin

14th Jun 2006, 09:52

JPA roll out was really bad for those serving overseas. Cannot access any on line stuff, did not get paid at all. Sumitted first claim and was told it was not in accordance with the JSP that I cannot even get to see as we are not on line. All in all, SAMA was better thus far!

:}

fantaman

14th Jun 2006, 10:01

I would encourage those of you who are frustrated to write to your MP, virtually nothing else will have any effect, as the brick wall is already built.

Just been palmed off by JPAC again, for the umptenth time today so I've well and truly had it.

Just sent an e-mail to the Sun newsdesk. What should I say to my MP to get his attention?

PompeySailor

14th Jun 2006, 10:27

Just been palmed off by JPAC again, for the umptenth time today so I've well and truly had it.

Just sent an e-mail to the Sun newsdesk. What should I say to my MP to get his attention?

Tell him you are a 16 year old rent boy. Normally works. Allegedly.

Seriously, put the facts down, explain how you are not receiving your correct pay, point out why the statements in the House are incorrect, and corroborate with facts where possible. Pointing him here won't work, as he will need to see verifiable proof. Have a dig around the JPA site and see what you can print off which backs you up. Most MPs will gladly take up the baton from the Armed Forces, it will depend on which party though. Copy the letter to No 10 and, if you are brave, the CE of JPA, explaining that you have exhausted all other routes.

Good luck

charlie55

14th Jun 2006, 10:33

I assume that you have addressed your grievance to yr Subordinate Commanders (officers) - they should be able to make arrangements to reimburse you if JPA is really causing you hardship (and £2.4k sounds like hardship to me). If you haven't done this, do so first, (ignore this warning at yr peril) using a Gen App to request an interview, if you still have such a thing, then it's on record.

To get the attention of people outside the service, all that is required is a simple 3 paragraph letter.

Paragraph 1: state the background to the grievance/issue you want him to investigate. State who you are, an SAC at RAF xxx, and you are using a new admin system, introduced on Apr 1, and you think he might find it interesting to investigate how things are going.

Paragraph 2: Provide detail he can use for his enquiry. Relate your experience (briefly; lack of suitable functionality in the software, unobtainable enquiries desk, lack of access to terminals, lack of any offer to reimburse you, reaction from chain of command, refer to this blog with a http:// , he will be able to access this site from HofC)

Paragraph 3: This is the para for asking what you want him to do. In your case it's probably to press for immediate substantial improvements in the arrangement for paying allowances pending improved JPA functionality.

I say again, use your officers first, before you go this route. Best of luck.

airborne_artist

14th Jun 2006, 10:46

Fantaman

You should be asking what your supervising officer and his/her supervisors are doing about it. I can only speak for the Navy, but if a lad/lass had come to me out of pocket by as much as a tenner I'd have been pushing it up the chain, hard. If my CO had found out I'd ignored it/done nothing, it'd be his office, my hat, no coffee.

Officers really should not be letting the airships get away with this, and by now I'd have been round all my team positively checking that their pay etc was in order.

fantaman

14th Jun 2006, 10:53

Sorry I should have elaborated more on my earlier post. The e-mail I sent to the Sun was a brief outline of the farce that is JPA and didn't contain any of my personal details.

The money I am missing is my four and a half year bonus that I was entitled to around two months ago. After tax, it works out at about £2400 or thereabout. I have spoken to my seniors who have in turn spoken to the station admin unit and JPA. All they get is the same answer that I get, someone will call you back in 10 days!

Sorry if I confused or misled anyone.

PompeySailor

14th Jun 2006, 10:55

The Masked Geek

14th Jun 2006, 11:04

JPA isn't a problem for me. Until they make it a secure system, I refuse to use it and believe that life is better for it.

airborne_artist

14th Jun 2006, 11:07

I have spoken to my seniors who have in turn spoken to the station admin unit and JPA. All they get is the same answer that I get, someone will call you back in 10 days!

Can you request an interview with the station boss in the RAF? It certainly used to be possible in the RN. Gather all the written evidence, request the interview, take it to him, and stand well back!

PompeySailor

14th Jun 2006, 11:46

Can you request an interview with the station boss in the RAF? It certainly used to be possible in the RN. Gather all the written evidence, request the interview, take it to him, and stand well back!

With the RN you still have to follow the right channels first (request to see the Commanding Officer would be placed via DO first, which makes sense as they should be advising you on how to do it properly) - the only time you can rep up straight to the CO is on Divisions, when you are allowed to rep to the inspecting officer. Which could be highly amusing, and I only ever thought someone was going to do it once, but they bottled it.

I think you would probably get fairly short shrift from a CO, as it is not within his remit to rectify, only to inform those higher of your grievance. The correct form (RN wise) would be to raise a written representation, in our case through DO and straight to DD Pay in London who would take the whole issue for action.

FOMere2eternity

14th Jun 2006, 12:07

If the indirect approach isn't working - ie. through SNCOs and JOs, the best way to get something done is to write to your commanding officer.

The golden rules are:

1. Explain your case factually, accurately and concisely.

2. Politely summarise what you would like done about it.

Provided you follow the rules above, you will not get into trouble and can refer to the letter at a later date - the chain of command also know this, which is why it is likely to result in some action!

No idea

14th Jun 2006, 12:25

Tell him you are a 16 year old rent boy. Normally works. Allegedly.

Seriously, put the facts down, explain how you are not receiving your correct pay, point out why the statements in the House are incorrect, and corroborate with facts where possible. Pointing him here won't work, as he will need to see verifiable proof. Have a dig around the JPA site and see what you can print off which backs you up. Most MPs will gladly take up the baton from the Armed Forces, it will depend on which party though. Copy the letter to No 10 and, if you are brave, the CE of JPA, explaining that you have exhausted all other routes.

Good luck

Unfortunately, one of the first questions your MP will ask is - have you used the internal Formal Complaints process (ie Redress of Complaint) - utilising your MP will only be effective if you have exhausted that method first, as the MOD will reply - we have not received a Formal Complaint from the individual so we were unaware. Hence the earlier response from the House when Cameron asked the questions about JPA.

For RAF Bods look up QR 1000 and AP 3392 Vol4 lflt 1806 on Redress of Complaint. The longer you keep whining on this forum and relying on the JPAC to sort out your problems, the longer it will be for the system to sort its self out. Remember Redress of Complaint is your statutory right as a Serviceman/woman under the relevant Service Discipline Act.

vecvechookattack

14th Jun 2006, 17:55

Only 120 days until the Royal Navy starts JPA....should we be scared or is it fixed?

dallas

14th Jun 2006, 18:06

Vec

Of course it's all working now - Wg Cdr Field says so!

Undoubtedly the RN will get it on time - for one and only one reason - to avoid government embarrassment.

If I'm honest I can now easily log-on, which is something nobody could do for the first month. I've also applied for leave (or whatever it's called now) with no apparent problems. As for anything else, it simply doesn't have the capability to do hundreds of things we used to and there's no evident central plan in place as a contingency. JPA may be working, just not for anyone in the RAF!

SirToppamHat

14th Jun 2006, 18:47

should we be scared or is it fixed?

That depends what you consider 'fixed' to mean. I am on a UK main base, and normally have no trouble accessing the service, submitting claims etc. However, I can well believe that anyone away from the backbone RLI is struggling. There will undoubtedly be units even within the UK where access is slow to impossible - we have never taken the requirement for bandwidth seriously, or employed contractors who have the necessary skills to develop software strategies that work with narrow pipes.. As for those who are out of area (at permanent or temporary deployed sites), I can well believe that the system is impossible to use.

I was at MoD the other day for a meeting, and the mil guys I was dealing with were still using paper - perhaps it's because they are 'Joint', but I don't think so.

The software itself is not fully developed or tested - today I put in a claim for UK Daily Subsistence that was initially rejected because I had put UK instead of United Kingdom in the box which wanted to know where I had been when I had expended the cash... why was it even asking?? It also frequently refers users to the rules applicable to a particular claim, but there are no links and it often says things like See JSP XXX Leaflet YYY Para ZZZ, but no-one has gone back and filled-in the missing numbers!

I know I am in danger of repeating myself, but as bad as all this is, the real bolleaux about the introduction of JPA is the actual changes to entitlements that have been sneaked-in with it. We have been right-royally shafted!!!!! What gripped me today was a reminder message to users at my unit that the rates are maxima, and that just because you can claim up to £21(?) for daily subsistence doesn't mean that you are entitled to it. They have apparently been getting claims for the full amount, which the adminers reckon is indicative of people 'over-claiming'. Of course, it is unlikely that individuals will have receipts for the full amount unless they buy one or 2 large meals, but my understanding is that any purchase costing less than £5 does not need a receipt. Assuming the £21 is correct, you could legitimately buy 16 McD burgers (separately), a couple of drinks, a newspaper and make a brief call home, adding up to the full amount, which is entirely legitimate, but requires no actual receipts. When I questioned how any investigation into a supposed fraud of the systen might possibly be made to stick, I was met with a shrug. It just seems to me that this stupid system is trying to make people feel guilty about claiming things to which they are entitled.

It is disgusting.

You will hate it.

STH

Spotting Bad Guys

14th Jun 2006, 21:29

I've really had enough of it. The claims element is now working OK on the surface of it, but I agree with STH that the raft of small-minded penny-pinching measures brought in with JPA beggar belief. I was away for a 5-day det to the US; the subesquent claim which took nearly two hours to submit even after 'er indoors had sorted through all my receipts and made sense of the whole thing (she's an accounts clerk, bless her). What no one is counting is the cost in man-hours lost to the service, plus the loss of goodwill due to the fact that our lords and masters believe this system is better (read: cheaper) than just issuing a daily rate and letting us get on with it.

I have now been embarrassed on several occasions when dining with US and civilian colleagues of equal or greater rank due to the need to try to stay within budget.

It's taken three months to get a pay packet that makes any sense (I was posted in March) and have been forced to write to OC Admin (sorry, BSW) regarding the lack of response to my queries to JPAC and the 'back office'.

The whole thing should be rolled up and thrown in the skip, with the perpetrators publicily vilified throughout the kingdom....
:mad: :ugh: :mad:

Sorry. Rant got way from a me a bit......

SBG

No idea

14th Jun 2006, 22:42

SBG so when are you going to write your Redress of Complaint - the system is not concerned with complaints to the JPAC, HR Staff (old money PSF) or the OC Admin Wg. They are only concerned with Redresses - if you have a grievance with JPA submit the Redress!!!

To date there have still been no Redresses submitted by RAF personnel.

tgarden

15th Jun 2006, 16:46

I have followed this thread closely, and have asked the Government what is happening. I received a reply yesterday:
Ministry of Defence: Joint Personnel Administration System
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
What assessment they have made of the performance of the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system; and [HL6073]
How many complaints have been made about errors in pay and allowances to the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system since it went live for the Royal Air Force on 20 March; and [HL6074]
When the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system is expected to be extended to the Army and the Royal Navy; and [HL6075]
What is the total cost of the contract for the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system. [HL6076]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): On 20 March 2006, the Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency (AFPAA) rolled out joint personnel administration (JPA) to 48,000 RAF service personnel throughout the world, on time and on budget. The event marked the culmination of five years' system design, development, integration and testing and bears testimony to a very strong partnering agreement between MoD and EDS.
The current estimated total cost of the JPA project, including costs preceding full development and also its initial period of in-service operation through to the end of financial year 2008-09, covering both MoD and extramural costs, is £269 million. JPA is expected to deliver savings in excess of £100 million per year when fully in service.
On JPA rollout to the RAF, there were a number of technical issues which had not manifested in the extensive testing carried out prior to its launch. These resulted in the system operating much more slowly than anticipated which greatly restricted the number of self-service users at any one time. Over the course of the following six weeks these early problems were overcome and users have had access to the full system functionality since 18 May.
JPA performed satisfactorily on rollout to RAF professional HR administrators and has successfully delivered pay to the RAF with only relatively few discrepancies in the first month and many less in the second. Although the first few weeks following roll-out have resulted in a significant number of inquiries and requests for rectification of problems from individual users, as well as some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents, as at 9 June there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.
In order to ensure alignment of JPA with defence information infrastructure (future) programme requirements, current plans are that JPA will be rolled out to the RN from October 2006 and to the Army from March 2007.

BEagle

15th Jun 2006, 17:22

stillin1

15th Jun 2006, 17:26

Please someone tell me that the arrrrse-holes responsibe for JPA within the RAF are looking for future employment outside H M's Armed Forces! The whole thing is an unmitigated disaster. It is utterly UN-user friendly, complicated, unwealdy and NO improvement over what came before.

It is ****E! Oh! that explains the Aaarse-hole issue I suppose:mad:

No idea

15th Jun 2006, 21:10

Brown Job

15th Jun 2006, 21:11

Sir Topham you are right ..... and wrong! DA @ £21 is to cover lunch and/or dinner and/or breakfast if not covered by NS. If you are out for 5 hours and choose to have a slap up two course bar meal and non-alcoholic drink costing £25 for your lunch you are quite within your rights to claim £21. Any blunty that suggests otherwise should be put back in his box firmly.

You are wrong to suggest that one could claim 25 x McDs @ 99p because that would not reasonable as a lunch or dinner. Those who seek to circumvent the regs with too many sub £5, no receipt, claims will have the no receipt clause revoked and will have to produce everyone whatever the amount.
:ok:

Occasional Aviator

15th Jun 2006, 21:21

I have had cause to investigate the entitlements and can confirm that the allowance does indeed appear to be £21 for on or two meals and drinks, without splitting it out - although the 'abated' rate is something like £4.20 and this is supposed to cover your 'minor' meal of the day - ie lunch when the MOD provides dinner.
What is more interesting is that it now seems acceptable to claim for an alcoholic drink (one 'reasonable' one only!) - I have actually had SP Pol confirmation of this!

Hoots

15th Jun 2006, 21:37

I believe JSP 752 AL3 specifies alchohol is allowed with a meal.

SirToppamHat

15th Jun 2006, 21:52

Brown Job

OK I accept the specific example I gave may lead to people getting grief.

However, the point I was trying to make was that this system is barking mad, and impossible to police. Define 'reasonable'. In today's climate, people often don't eat meals in the traditional way - b'fast lunch dinner (how do you think all those fast-food places around MoD for example are busy all day?). People may only have time for several small snacks and these may add up to the total without producing any receipts at all.

On the subject of the 5 hours/£21 thing, I was informed today that you can't claim for a newspaper/phonecall unless you are out overnight. Not sure why this is - I normally read the papers in the mess at lunchtime, and figured (wrongly it seems) that the Service would allow me to do the same when out on duty.

Last thing for today: who is collecting data to find out what people are actually spending? It's simple to find out what people are CLAIMING, but shouldn't the system actually record the full costs even if they are over the allowance (but pay only the max allowed)? I can see that in 12-mths time, some shiney-arsed t@sser lloking at all the claims and seeing that the average claimed is below the max allowed. QED, the rate can be reduced! Cynical? Moi?

Night Night

STH

Yeller_Gait

15th Jun 2006, 22:36

STH,

You can only claim for the overnight subsistence OS ( newspaper/laundry/3 min phone call) and breakfast when you are away over night. the Daily subsistence DS covers you for lunch and dinner, there is no individual rate for lunch and dinner. As long as you are on the ground for at least 5 hours (better than the old system), you can claim DS. I think that you may also be able to claim IE (incidental expenses, £5 per day in UK, ££10 per day o/seas) as long as it is not sport etc (but worth checking).

Personally I have just been overseas on det for two weeks, and trying to complete the paperwork is a nightmare; it encourages fraud, because as numerous people have already stated, any item under £5 does not need a receipt; a few Big Mac's will do it.

If the MOD want to save money, just reduce the money that we are entitled to (when overseas as the money that we get in UK is barely adequate), and allow us to spend it as we want to.

The Monkey

16th Jun 2006, 05:50

I am now 101 days in to my det with 39 left to go. Have I been paid my LSA/LSSA/whatever the hell its now called? Hell no!

What have I done about it I hear you all asking. Apart from having the Army Sgt Maj, RN Cpt and Army Brigadier ringing the UK every week since I have been here, not a lot. We were all assured that the allowances had been put in to the system and it should turn up in my account in my next pay packet. Hmm, still no money.

Ah, so now the only person who can access my JPA account is me over the phone. So I do this to be told, once I conveyed to the (not too bothered) civvy which allowance I was talking about, it will take 10 days to find out what is going on.

"10 days?" says I - "Well I have lasted 100 without being paid so 10 more won't make a huge difference." Water off a duck's back I tell thee.

No idea if my letter of complaint signed by a 1 star will help or not but its worth a try.

Oh, and incase I didn't say, 100 days worth of allowances here is 3,700 pounds.

PompeySailor

16th Jun 2006, 07:41

It would appear that putting things on paper and into the chain is the only way ahead. Phone calls and emails don't seem to be working, or registering within the complaints system - ergo, the Command can happily ignore them, as they are not "official". Rest assured that the RN will be going paper-official as soon as it goes wrong for any of us - we are looking and learning!

Confidence in the system is not good, with less than 120 days before we get it.

k3k3

16th Jun 2006, 07:59

PompeySailor

16th Jun 2006, 09:29

How are you supposed to go on line or call the complaints desk when you're at sea?

Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?

Most ships have connectivity via SCOT these days, but not on a continuous basis (unless you are on one of those lightweight carrier things - you should hear the whining when email goes down on there!). Making official calls via Inmarsat could get a little expensive as well!

Subs - there is a routine for comms out, but not if they are op-deployed.

Of course, under DPA the wife/partner is not entitled to phone the Help Desk and enquire about her husband's pay.....when Mrs Tar is cutting the Boss' b@llocks of with a rusty knife, they may reassess this side of the equation!

charlie55

16th Jun 2006, 13:14

The issue with formal grievance procedure is surely that foisting a thoroughly maddening software package, combined with a 700 page re-write of the relevant regulations, on the entire RAF is not necessarily grounds for complaint against an individual, especially as it's agreed policy to do so.

Perhaps it's poor project management.....? No doubt the NAO will be taking a look in due course.

Chainkicker

17th Jun 2006, 08:41

Which would indicate, would it not, that despite the huge number of individual cases described on PPRuNE and the 14 individual pieces of correspondence, Lord Drayson will continue to hide behind such utter fluff unless formal grievances are laid.
So what's stopping you all? Why aren't such grievances being filed every day, if that's what it takes?
'Comical Ali' Field will continue to spin the party line and you won't get any swift action until you do.
Having jumped ship last week I assume I can no longer submit a redress? (unless anyone knows different maybe?). While the amount isnt vast (approx £450 in rent/council tax removed from my pay after having handed quarter back) i have sent an email with the facts and amounts debited to the Stn Cdr at my former unit along with the information that i will be pursuing him/the RAF through the small claims court unless the money (plus costs) is received in my bank account by 30 Jun 06. This should then give him some ammunition to take to the AOC maybe?
PSF (bless them) have tried to sort it but the attitude displayed by JPAC back office/DE (DHE as was) is absolutley abysmal. Both seem to be denying any responsibility for correcting it and saying its up to the other to sort it. F:mad: g imbiciles....

JessTheDog

17th Jun 2006, 09:36

Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?

A message in a bottle? (sorry, I'll get my coat)

Reading the papers today, I was surprised to note that the Comical Ali mouthpiece for JPA hadn't received a gong...thought it was standard for MoD c0ck-ups, this must be a bad one! :}

JessTheDog

17th Jun 2006, 09:50

When will this wonderful system be rolled out to pay the wages and claims of senior civil servants and MPs?

5thMetatarsal

17th Jun 2006, 17:53

FROM HOUSE OF LORDS, 14 JUNE:

"
Ministry of Defence: Joint Personnel Administration System

Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
What assessment they have made of the performance of the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system; and [HL6073]
How many complaints have been made about errors in pay and allowances to the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system since it went live for the Royal Air Force on 20 March; and [HL6074]
When the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system is expected to be extended to the Army and the Royal Navy; and [HL6075]
What is the total cost of the contract for the Ministry of Defence joint personnel administration system. [HL6076]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): On 20 March 2006, the Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency (AFPAA) rolled out joint personnel administration (JPA) to 48,000 RAF service personnel throughout the world, on time and on budget. The event marked the culmination of five years' system design, development, integration and testing and bears testimony to a very strong partnering agreement between MoD and EDS.

14 Jun 2006 : Column WA31

The current estimated total cost of the JPA project, including costs preceding full development and also its initial period of in-service operation through to the end of financial year 2008-09, covering both MoD and extramural costs, is £269 million. JPA is expected to deliver savings in excess of £100 million per year when fully in service.
On JPA rollout to the RAF, there were a number of technical issues which had not manifested in the extensive testing carried out prior to its launch. These resulted in the system operating much more slowly than anticipated which greatly restricted the number of self-service users at any one time. Over the course of the following six weeks these early problems were overcome and users have had access to the full system functionality since 18 May.
JPA performed satisfactorily on rollout to RAF professional HR administrators and has successfully delivered pay to the RAF with only relatively few discrepancies in the first month and many less in the second. Although the first few weeks following roll-out have resulted in a significant number of inquiries and requests for rectification of problems from individual users, as well as some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents, as at 9 June there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.
In order to ensure alignment of JPA with defence information infrastructure (future) programme requirements, current plans are that JPA will be rolled out to the RN from October 2006 and to the Army from March 2007."

JTIDS

18th Jun 2006, 20:15

Some one please tell me where the "formal grievances" button is on JPA PLEASE!!!!!

(Not of course that it will make any difference as when I try to enter the details it will just come up with SYSTEM ERROR, as it does every time I try to put in an expense claim at the moment.)

maniac55

18th Jun 2006, 22:22

JTIDS,

This may or may not help but I was suffering the same dreaded message when trying to put in a claim and have found one cause.

Now, bear in mind that there's an Oracle database at the heart of this thing, for the 'Auth' reference I had spaces but decided to try underscores instead & bingo I was in (still ended being audited & a policy violator though).

Hope this helps some.

Climebear

19th Jun 2006, 07:11

with only relatively few discrepancies in the first month and many less in the second.

Surely that should be 'many fewer in the second'? Forget that we are not being paid, I think that the quality of English language usage in the 'New Labour' House of Lords is indicative of the state of the nation :rolleyes:

JOCS Helpdesk

19th Jun 2006, 16:26

I notice that Gp Capt Sue Bonell AFPAA received an OBE in the birthday honours. Anyone know what for? Couldn't possibly be JPA could it? Surely not!

MilSpFunc

20th Jun 2006, 07:19

She has been the AFPAA Transformation Team Leader in Preparation for JPA so prepared the Help Desk establishment and got the Agency ready for JPA - she had nothing to do with the application itself.

PompeySailor

20th Jun 2006, 16:12

She has been the AFPAA Transformation Team Leader in Preparation for JPA so prepared the Help Desk establishment and got the Agency ready for JPA - she had nothing to do with the application itself.

"prepared the Help Desk..." - I assume this means that she was i/c mouse mat procurement rather than staff selection, training, etc?

airborne_artist

20th Jun 2006, 16:16

However, reading this thread it appears that the phrase "help desk" has one incorrect word in it, and it isn't desk. Not much assistance seems to have been given by those on said desk.

dallas

20th Jun 2006, 17:02

airborne_artist

20th Jun 2006, 17:13

Sorry Dallas, I'm no longer paid by Betty. I'm self-employed - if it doesn't work I don't get paid. Forgot that office/career politics is so much more important than completing the task on time and on budget.

Almost_done

20th Jun 2006, 18:00

Oh for God's sake airborne_artist, since when has it mattered whether your project works or is any good, compared to what you make influential people think?

If the RAF did all that it claimed, we'd be fcuking deadly!

Dallas, you see that is where all the upper echelons have gone wrong. Instead of doing a complete and competent job, they just do the veneer, not worrying about the underneath.

If it looks good I'll get the promotion/Honours etc...!!

All the lower echelons have been forced into the change culture, about time. Lets apply it Air Force wide and LEAN the upper echelons too, I'd like to see how they stand under the scrutiny. :ok:

Koalas the lot of them. :ugh:

charlie55

20th Jun 2006, 19:54

A cynic might say that "never has so much been owed to so many by so few".

Probably not true though...

MilSpFunc

20th Jun 2006, 21:16

"prepared the Help Desk..." - I assume this means that she was i/c mouse mat procurement rather than staff selection, training, etc?

No the Comms team designed and procured the mouse mat, mobile phone holder and key ring tag with contact details etc - SHE was the staff training etc.

insty66

20th Jun 2006, 22:46

Almost_done.

nice post
short, to the point and on target.
if only.................

Almost_done

22nd Jun 2006, 20:08

Climebear

22nd Jun 2006, 21:57

Ah good old JPA, I have recieved an extra £40ish this month for GYH?????
Intresting amount/allowance seeing as I have never claimed it, wanted nor needed it. :ugh:
Can't wait to see the next months pay packet....lol minus £400 for over issue of GYH :sad:

That'll be mine - mine stopped in Apr (when we switched to JPA) and the Help Desk hasn't been much help! They keep referring me back to the unit clerks - those will be the unit clerks we cut to be able to pay for JPA and the JPAC help desk then! :ugh:

Vim_Fuego

22nd Jun 2006, 23:18

This month I (so far) have no online pay packet. My colleagues do which is a bit worrying. After my daily chat with JPAC the chap finally decided that having an SR open for almost 2 months ref missing pay was too much...then admitted he had no idea what else I could do as his supervisor had been 'engaged' for most of the day.

I've put in over 80 hours effort this past week (ground tour..busy undermanned desk) and I just want paid...Redress is being bandied about at the moment...I have some faith in this process to acheive success but what of the aftermath? I'm not really a fan of hanging my testalia out to dry! Writing to any MP seems to be just a waste of printer ink...Senior officers admit they are out of the loop and that official avenues should be investigated i.e. JPAC.

Anyone got any fresh ideas??

Avtur

23rd Jun 2006, 13:59

I thought I heard this morning that Oracle have just announced a $700 million profit. Nice to see someone benefit from the chaos that is JPA.

nimblast

23rd Jun 2006, 20:30

Vim_Fuego,
try this, write direct to the chairperson of the Armed Forces Pay Review Board (her name is in the first few pages of the AFPRB 06-07 and send it c/o house of Lords). I did this a couple of years ago regarding the payment of FRI's. Both myself and PSF couldn't get any answers through the offical channels, didn't want to redress, so I wrote direct. Within 7 days I had OC PSF on the phone telling me I shouldn't have writen the letter but also giving me the answers to the questions I had been waiting for, for the last 15months.

tgarden

23rd Jun 2006, 20:36

The chairman of the AFPRB is now Professor David Greenaway, His website is here (http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/economics/staff/details/david_greenaway.html)

Kev Nurse

24th Jun 2006, 06:40

Vim Fuego,
You are entitled to go to OC Accts Flt and, with the evidence in hand that you have not been paid, you can request a manual payment.

Vim_Fuego

24th Jun 2006, 11:00

Thanks for your efforts...
Kev Nurse...That is my next step as soon as I see I have not been paid correctly again.
For all NCA who's flying pay wrong...if you are on the upper level but are only getting the middle band check the NEW JPA rules for paying the upper level....Shocking!

Vim_Fuego

24th Jun 2006, 18:28

Go on Vim, spill the beans. Not all NCA are in work this Saturday to check!
I cannot verify this until monday but I'm fairly/definately sure that the law has changed to 18 years served (for upper rate) of which minimum 9 (and you can put money on it being from substansive) as NCA.
This obviously affects the many re-treads that follow this career path. I'm told that if you were getting the upper rate they will eventually honour it...
If you were about to get it and don't fit the new criteria then you'll have to wait that bit longer....:sad:

shandyman

25th Jun 2006, 08:19

Vim and other interested parties. I qualify for high rate although most of my career to date, spent as a groundie. Lost some money in the high rate - middle rate faff last month, but have been assured that it will return this month. Simply the fact that JPA does not recognise 18 years as the higher rate start point!
I'll wait until the re-payment is in the bank until I am a believer!!

splitbrain

25th Jun 2006, 08:26

Well, the Sunday Express has got a hold of this today (25 June) and its their front page headline

ANGER AS OUR BOYS GO UNPAID.

The storyline tells of log-in woes, messed up pay, problems getting access, and a bunch of soundbite quotes taken from (ahem) internet forums :p
There's even the tale of a girly recruit at RTS Halton who wasn't paid and didn't have the £2 neeeded to get her kit washed (bless).
And from the offcial reply...

"Blah, new system, a few minor problems blah, areas that could be better, no greater problems than we had previously":rolleyes:

Rather predictable really.

Mind you, seeing as the Express group of papers seems hell bent on making a complete arse of itself as 90% of it other headlines relate to the death of Princess Diana, I'm not sure that having them onside regarding JPA is a help or a hindernace.

Jobza Guddun

25th Jun 2006, 13:23

Had a slightly puzzling experience on Friday afternoon with JPA...

Midway through last month, not long after the b____y system started being accessible, the second thing I did on it was to fill out my posting preferences; looked at them since and all was OK. Checked them on Friday, as a mate only found out his posting (on promotion) when he stumbled across his employment location, and noticed the difference. (PSF didn't even know apparently!) Anyway, on checking my preferences, I found that the whole section had been completely erased, and certainly not by me.

Could anyone with a bit of knowledge suggest why, or has anyone else seen this? Bit of a bugger as I'm waiting on the results of a promotion board, and assuming I would be successful, that lack of data could have seen me go anywhere! (probably would have done anyway!)

JG

oldfella

25th Jun 2006, 20:40

Spin, no real answer, deceit or lies?

In the piece in the Sunday Express, the MOD spokesman, a serving senior officer, rather than just saying that there were on-going problems and that the system was working hard to sort them out asap came up with dross.

"disgruntled people out there because it is a change" People are disgruntled because they have not been paid properly and there is no guarantee or timescale in which it will be sorted.

"It has not been as smooth as perhaps we would have liked but it has only been three months" Nothing to do with as we would have liked - Why not as well as we had expected and tried to ensure - Beta testing with salaries is inexcusable.

Äs far as I am aware, we are not incurring any greater problems with pay than we had previously" Really!!!!! Is this spin or based on a bit of homework? Prove it with stats. In three decades I have known individuals to have the occassional problem with allowances but very rarely with basic salary.

These are the sort of quotes I have come to expect from spin doctors not leaders. It's time leaders of this sort reviewed where their duties lie.

fantaman

25th Jun 2006, 20:43

These are the sort of quotes I have come to expect from spin doctors not leaders. It's time leaders of this sort reviewed where their duties lie.
Hmm, squadron tea bar perhaps? Or maybe they'd f:mad: k that up as well!

SpotterFC

25th Jun 2006, 21:03

This is the conversation that should have happened at media control central:

"You want me to say what to the papers? I think not Sir, I'll ring my poster on Monday."

Not:

"Absolutely sir, the Microsoft defence will work every time - blame the users for not knowing how to use an already flawed and under performing system. I'm sure no-one will worry about me calling them imbeciles and luddites. Promotion sir? I'd be delighted."

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

It's called integrity, something this particular Senior Officer clearly has little of.

Then again CAS thinks JPA is a good example of NEC in non-operational systems - if that's the case God help us when we get NEC in operational systems.

airborne_artist

26th Jun 2006, 05:53

The story is now being run by the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/26/nraf26.xml). Clearly all the journo has done is read and quote this august forum :8

BEagle

26th Jun 2006, 06:14

Is the 'Senior Officer' who makes these statements the same Wg Cdr Trevor 'Comical Ali' Field who tried to play down the problems earlier?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/comical_ali.jpg

Meals + Mail + Money = Morale. Never meddle with that fundamental concept!

ChezTanker

26th Jun 2006, 09:02

Sorry guys to disagree but after initial teething problems I have been pleasantly surprised how easy the system is to use. I have managed to have my pay split and submitted a career break application - plus HTD was a cinch.:D

TrembleInAmf

26th Jun 2006, 16:20

Pontius Navigator

26th Jun 2006, 16:38

i forgot "Service before Self".

Hey, who is claiming Service before Self. That is almost Rotary International's year motto - Service above Self. They want to watch it, we'll do 'em for copyright infringement.

Ooops, sorry, I forgot, there is no one at home to take the blame.

Pontius Navigator

26th Jun 2006, 16:47

Could anyone with a bit of knowledge suggest why, or has anyone else seen this? Bit of a bugger as I'm waiting on the results of a promotion board, and assuming I would be successful, that lack of data could have seen me go anywhere! (probably would have done anyway!)
JG

Two possibilities spring to mind. One is that your 'update' didn't make it all the way to the server. When you checked after updating it was in cache but you logged out or switched off before the cache was cleared.

The other is a simple system glitch (ie finger trouble) that now, after 10 years I can confess to. Simply your information got through and was held in the current store but someone managed to restore the system to a point before your update and then failed (that's what I did) to add in the latest temporary cache files.

These are of course pure guesses as I have no idea how the system is actually supposed to work but it would be well to check the next day after the overnight backup run.

Mackilt

26th Jun 2006, 21:50

A mere 3 months after being told i would be rung inside 2 days, and after me ringing them 3 other times, to correct my pay grade, they have rung and told me my pay will be correct by the end of July:} . I did have the gaul to ask if i would get a mid month payment for the outstanding amount, to which i was told "we don't do mid monthly payments".

Since when, who said so, why wasn't i immediately informed. Oh sorry i forgot "Service before Self". Must keep that at the fore front of my thinking or i might get upset at not being paid properly.

Who's the lucky one then? They actually called you back :bored:
A collegue in the same office as me has had pay problems for the last 2 months and has been ringing the JPAC every week since the beginning, they would promise to call back, (within 2 days, then 24 hrs then 2 hours, which they never did!) would pass him from pillar to post give a different excuse everytime, tell him he wasn't the only one with problems. (Do you really give a damn who else has problems when you are £300 pounds down?)
Finally he spoke (yet again) to the desk and the young lady told him that 'THEY DON'T DEAL WITH PAY MATTERS!!!!!!!' and he should talk to his local HR (PSF). Off he trundled to HQ and low and behold they could access the system and make the required changes!
Turns out he had been put on a course and moved into the barrack block, (on paper) when he already had a married quarter on camp. Of course they had started charging him food and accomodation and never bothered to take him off at the end of the course. Not that they should have moved him in in the first place.

As for 'Service before self' well I think you can all guess the point of view taken by those of us at the grindstone. "S:oh: :oh: :oh: w them!" If they want to run a business best they get some real managers in and start considering their planning strategy's. Just don't get me started on the T93 radar.

LoL better shut up now someone else might have something to say!

Have a good un!

PhoenixDaCat

27th Jun 2006, 07:48

EDS are to get a lot of money from MoD

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/06/26/eds_dii_vii/

tgarden

28th Jun 2006, 21:15

I hope you find the following reply (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199900/ldhansrd/pdvn/lds06/text/60627w01.htm#column_WA137) dated 27 June 2006 useful:
Ministry of Defence: Joint Personnel Administration System
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
What arrangements they have made for compensating members of the Royal Air Force who have not received correct payments on time since the introduction of the joint personnel administration system. [HL6437]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): Any claims for compensation as a result of incorrect payments following the introduction of the JPA system will be considered in accordance with government accounting procedures. The general principle adopted is that the individual may be recompensed where it can be shown that a financial loss has occurred through maladministration.

PompeySailor

28th Jun 2006, 21:33

I hpe you find the following reply (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199900/ldhansrd/pdvn/lds06/text/60627w01.htm#column_WA137) dated 27 June 2006 useful:

That is a good one, and one that they frequently fall back on. You have to supply all of your financial details to the MOD accountants, and they take six months to come back with a derisory offer, normally based around a nominal percentage rate. In truth, unless you have lost out financially on a pretty major scale (loss of interest per day is normally minimal, financial penalties incurred for non-payment are straightforward, and they will try and claim that your spending record did not guarantee that you could have met the bills anyway!), there is very little you can do - but be sure to check your Experian credit records if you have had bills bounced by the bank through lack of funds. This will move you into areas of compensation because your damaged credit record (ie reputation) is the fault of JPA.

In truth, heads should roll because it's been a cock up from conception to birth, but we all know that never happens. It should not be a major task to call in some of the trained desk-bunny accountants (that the MOD paid to be trained) to check out the accounts that people claim are incorrect, and to apply a payment and corrective action. All the time we can fund MBAs, Uni break years, sabbaticals, senior management jollies, sorry, courses, etc, then we should be able to ensure that those bearing the weight are paid correctly.

Pontius Navigator

29th Jun 2006, 07:01

Read Alex Masterley in the Business Section of the Daily Telegraph today. Brilliant.

It covers replacement of forms, reduction of Admin, covers Pompey's comments and has a great punchline, the lead in to which is:

"The impossibly comlicated one for people to reclaim their expenses on?"

Pontius Navigator

29th Jun 2006, 07:11

they take six months to come back with a derisory offer, normally based around a nominal percentage rate.

The relevant bit here is the 'nominal percentage'.

Ok, this is big bucks and long time, but £1000 per year over 12 years eventually led to MOD paying out £35000. Part of the bill was for the plaintiffs' experts in challenging the ministry on the appropriate daily rate of interest over 12 years. Naturally the MOD offered interest at the lowest annual rate whereas the plaintiffs claimed, and won, a signifigantly larger sum.

For JPA claims I believe the MOD would be hard pressed to refuse to pay out at the Customs and Revenue Interest rate which is actually quite generous. In their case though you have to make an involuntary loan for 12 months :).

So, in addition to any expenses, including fees for checking Experian etc, and bank charges, you should also be looking for loss of interest (you should pay tax on the interest of course).

Say you were planning to pay for a £1000 holiday and your pay is short over the period by £1000 then the interest you would claim would be that associated with paying for that holiday - say 1-2% per month.

Don't claim, don't want. Don't want, don't get.

airborne_artist

29th Jun 2006, 07:24

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2006/06/29/calex29.gif

Ali Barber

3rd Jul 2006, 19:31

Good old JPA, was wondering it where it had slipped to.

Bank error in your favour, collect 2 lots of pay, but only the portion to my overseas bank not my UK bank - only one set of pay to the UK! Oh, and no pay statement yet!

fightingchickenplumb

4th Jul 2006, 12:26

hey

its been a while so i thought i would update you on my JPA woes

well on the HTD front I went back over to my scribbly (this is my fourth time since 21st of feb) , told them i moved out and still wasnt getting my HTD for the last four and a half months, took me and the scribbly 2hours just to allow my address to changed and serveral phone calls to the "unhelpful" desk. Then I discovered that my scribbly could have changed the system so i got my HTD from the 1st April, but i have to wait until the paperwork goes through the "system", that and the 150 the RAF owe me for accomidation charges. However on checking my JPA account am still not eligble for HTD. If i dont see the money in next months pay packet am gonna ask for some sort of redress. I mean its not like its a lot of money to me only 281 quid a month!
Does anyone know why we get taxed on HTD? according to JPA we do? thoughts/advice greatly accepted.

On the leave front, its ace, JPA doesnt acknowledge my leaving date of the 1st Oct, and no one either in PSF or JPA has bothered to sort my leave balance out, result?No one either my line manager, JPA or PSf knows how many days entitlement i have, advice from the scribblies "stick in your passes to your boss on a F295A for the number of days you think have left"

Employment Prefrences:

Being fed up with JPA F:mad:king my life around , I decided to amuse myself with the system, so my areas of employment prefreneces are Cannada/Austrailia/Brussells(NATO) and my employment prefrences are CAS (RAF) /Forward Air Controller (RAF) / War Fighting Policy Writer (RN)

Well my basic training instructor always said aim high lol so I am currently awaiting a phone call telling me am invited to high wycombe to have a infrmal job interview over a cup of earl grey with the CAS........

..... either that or a snot-o-gram from JPA

Climebear

4th Jul 2006, 12:39

Does anyone know why we get taxed on HTD? according to JPA we do? thoughts/advice greatly accepted.

According to the Allowances JSP 752 on the JPA website it isn't

04.1302. Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions (NICs). HDT is non-taxable.

Perhaps JPA have incorrectly identified their elbow.:}

Still waiting for my HTD to resume following the introduction of JPA:ugh:

Almost_done

4th Jul 2006, 14:32

Now this may just be conjecture, rumour etc... but a certain trades promotion board results have been delayed (yes they may be a blunt trade but they keep the A/C flying :} ), 'due to unforseen circumstances'.

I wonder if moving accross to a 'new and improved system' :bored: has any bearing on this?

Ginseng

4th Jul 2006, 17:21

From Hansard:

Latest Parliamentary Question re JPA, 3 Jul

Joint Personnel Administration
Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of Statefor Defence (1) how many former RAF personnel (a) pensions payments and (b) redundancy payments have been missed since 20 March 2006 under Joint
3 July 2006 : Column 711W
Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79658]

(2) how many complaints have been received from members of the armed forces about Joint Personnel Administration; [79659]

(3) why RAF personnel were not paid correctly under Joint Personnel Administration; and what action his Department has taken to rectify that situation; [79660]

(4) what he has identified as the main obstacles to the full roll out of Joint Personnel Administration; and what steps his Department is taking to overcome these obstacles; [79824]

(5) how many (a) salary and (b) expense payments to serving RAF personnel have been missed since20 March under Joint Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79663]

(6) how many people will be remunerated by the Joint Personnel Administration once it is fully rolled out to all services. [79665]

Mr. Watson: Due to the increased numbers of those leaving the RAF in April as a result of the recent redundancy exercise, coupled with the rollout of JPA at the same time, it was not possible to process all terminal grant payments, Special capital payments and pension payments within the normal five days target. During April and May some 1,830 awards were processed for those leaving the RAF, of which 1,395 were paid outside of the five-day target from being discharged. However, in all but six cases payments were made within 30 days, with the remainder paid shortly thereafter. There are now no outstanding payments.

The first JPA payroll in April successfully delivered pay, including allowances and charges to the vast majority of RAF personnel (42,104 out of 48,743). The 6,639 pay inaccuracies (over and underpayments) were caused by several factors: some were due to existing data errors transferred over from the legacy systems, some were input errors, and some were discrepancies in flying pay. The majority of flying pay was correctly paid by 2 May; a small number of RAF personnel were paid their April entitlement in their May payments. The second (May) payroll has been much more successful with only some 1,175 personnel still affected by pay inaccuracies.

Some salary payments were late as a result of the simultaneous introduction of a new system of overseas bank payments. Overseas payments were achieved within a few days of the due date and alternative local cash payments were arranged. There have also been some difficulties with the automated payment of expenses for official journeys. In April these affected nearly 4,000 personnel and in May approximately 600.

The total number of personnel JPA will pay once it is fully rolled out is approximately 280,000. The Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency has received some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents. As at 21 June 2006 there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.

Full roll-out of JPA is dependent upon the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) programme. Alternative business processes are being developed for those who will not have self-service access when JPA goes live to their service.

Regards

Ginseng

Jobza Guddun

4th Jul 2006, 17:39

Almost Done, it's not rumour it's definitely true. I speak from experience!

I was also told it was due to "computer problems during data migration".

Still, it's not the winning, it's the taking part....

Lara crofts pants

4th Jul 2006, 17:56

Just a quick question for those of you in the know.

When I leave on Sep 30th (HOORAY) will JPA have anything to do with paying my pension or gratuity? I really hope not, as I need the money

Green Bottle 2

4th Jul 2006, 18:36

Well I have not been paid flying pay for 2 months now. Allegedly it will be fixed in the next week. I am also charged for a furnished quarter (I live in unfurnished) and I have been paid my LSSA twice (eased the burden of last months lack of flying pay.
All this has come at a most difficult time workwise and I have had to waste about 3 hours trying to get through to the JPA helpline and get a sensible answer. (I was told that as I 'm in a temporary post - on a course - and therefore should contact my career manager whoever he is!) At least I do have access to JPA and the helpline though.
I think JPA is a good idea in principle but the implementation has been shocking. It is the quickest way to destroy morale - don't pay people and make it near impossible for them to get it sorted out.:ugh:

Melchett01

4th Jul 2006, 19:03

Still waiting for my LSA details to be sorted - since May. Submitted an SR or whatever they are called, never heard anything back from them. So much for we will get back to you the next working day.

Interestingly enough, I hit the PVR button today, just out of curiosity rather than a burning desire to PVR, despite everything else that is happening. It came up with "Career Manager not found ". Just about says it all really :\

fin1012

5th Jul 2006, 11:59

Cannot understand the new pay chits at all. For some reason my quarters and garage charges filled the page for varying lengths of time in Jun from 4 days (shortest) to 10 days (longest) Whats all that about?:confused: On the other hand, when it has a mind to, it seems to pay allowance claims bloody quick.

cheesedoff

5th Jul 2006, 16:01

ExJAFAD

5th Jul 2006, 18:08

For some reason my quarters and garage charges filled the page for varying lengths of time in Jun from 4 days (shortest) to 10 days (longest) Whats all that about?:confused: .

If you have been away on courses or out of country the periods will (should) coincide. Told that today from my HR staff.

Mine is the same and does coincide with time away.

PompeySailor

5th Jul 2006, 18:21

Having waited nearly 3 months to find out why I have not moved onto the higher rate NCA flying pay band, imagine my surprise when I eventually receive a call from the JPAC informing me that JSP754 came into effect on 1st April and the rules have now changed. I am no longer entitled to the higher rate flying pay for another 3 years.

Anybody out there in the same situation? Yet another example of penny pinching. Is the change in pay a legal one? any ideas? :mad:

If your original date to move onto the higher rate predates 1 Apr, then you should have been placed on wef that date, and the change in rules should have allowed you a transitional phase.

If you qualified after 1 Apr, then they have just found another way of shafting you. But sideways.

fin1012

5th Jul 2006, 21:25

ExJAFAD,
Thanks for the info on how quarters rent appears on the payslip. It does correlate (June was a v busy month!). However, given that I pay quarters 31/31 regardless of whether I am home or not, it does seem a bit of an odd way of doing it. Perhaps they have in mind a future where we don't get charged if we are away .......:p

FIN

ZOFO

6th Jul 2006, 20:01

Just spoken to my PSF (Sorry Unit HR Staff) regarding my back pay that is due to me from my move to the higher pay band after completing 10 weeks training at RAF Cosford, found out that although I completed the course on the 17 Feb 06 allowing for the award of my new Q annotation and move to higher pay band, Cosford did not sign off my f292 until the 8 of May 06 and then it has of course hit JPA and the Cluster that has arised from this. I ask an open question to you all, is there any way I can address a formal complaint as to why it is now Jul and I am not being paid my correct daily rate of pay. I have been told by my HR staff that 3000 plus "inputs" to JPA are being processed at this moment, by 2 staff from my unit that have had to be attached from Northern Ireland to Innsworth to help out!!. All I want at the end of the day is to receive what I am entitled to as has been said on this thread they are quick enough to take it off you!! start giving it back. I have two civilian staff under my command and if I donot supply a tea bar or "smoke area" I get shafted by Civi Admin....(My apologies to civilian staff on this thread") but it is very frustrating now as I believe that Most service personnel and their spouses are being "patient" with this whole F up now!!, any guidance for what I can do now is greatly appreciated..

L J R

6th Jul 2006, 22:04

vecvechookattack

6th Jul 2006, 22:13

I have to say that we in the senior service are dreading the 26 October (bit of a strange date to start buggering about with yer pay).

But at the end of the day it seems to me as though we are wasting a lot of money here. At the moment a Killick writer does my pay. She is very good at it, trained and experienced. She gets paid IRO £60-80 a day to make sure my pay gets into the bank ontime and in the correct rig. From October, I will have to do it. Im not trained, I'm inexperienced and get paid well over £150 a day. Where is the cost saving in that?

ZH875

6th Jul 2006, 22:26

vecvechookattack

6th Jul 2006, 22:31

Sounds good. So JPA is saving the MOD a wadge of spondoolies every month. Good. What shall we spend it on?

Topsy Turvey

6th Jul 2006, 22:56

Quote:
The Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency has received some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents
Then I guess it is time you all wrote to your local member and increase this stat.
Does anyone have a simple template to copy for all to use and submit?
Waste of time. Using a template will receive a standard / template style response. Far better to raise / refer any specific concerns. IMO writing to your MP or PM is over rated.
Process goes as follows. You write to him/her, his / her PA writes 2 line note forwarding your letter to Defence Minister, Ministers outer office intercept letter pass to MoD Parliamentary Branch, who will forward to AFPAA. AFPAA drafts response, pass back to Parliamentary Branch, they send to Minister who signs letter & sends to MP who passes to you. You might as well write to AFPAA direct. Better still complain to RAF chain of command / RAF News or local media. Remember CE AFPAA is answerable to the Service chiefs / public pressure.
(No I don't work in AFPAA Secretariat or with JPA but I did use to perform similar work in another Government Department).

London Mil

7th Jul 2006, 05:45

Other things of lesser importance:

Check your competencies - I have 42(!), including CR pilot and flying supervisor despite the fact I have never flown a military aeroplane. Should I query my flying pay?:8

Medical details either don't exist or are wrong. I only hope that, when I get shot in the desert, the medics don't give me A+ blood when my blood group is actually O-.

How much leave have you got? Done to death on the previous pages.

If you are a shift worker, how do you claim your food charges back in your "3 off"?

As a line manager, I have no indication whether an individual has actually put in his 'leave pass' without actually going to look for the info. Consequently, we have set up a parallel system for ensuring that individuals have taken authorised absence. (PS. The JPAC solution was to disable all self-authorisations. Doesn't that take us back to SAMA?)

When does my CCS/Medical/Innoculation/Fitness Test currency run out? I suspect there are a number of COs who no longer know the 'Warfighting status' of their unit.

If you are an NCO and have been given re-engagement leave on promotion, there is no record as to whether you have taken these 20 days in the last five years. my advice, plead innocent and get yourself another 20 days leave.

Bored now. Got to go to work and check my "Workflow Notifications".

MilSpFunc

7th Jul 2006, 07:40

Sounds good. So JPA is saving the MOD a wadge of spondoolies every month. Good. What shall we spend it on?

Too late - the MOD has already taken the savings and reallocated them to the front line - well thats what the blurb says. Not sure whose front line, clearly not Afghanistan!

dallas

7th Jul 2006, 08:31

...clearly not Afghanistan!

Oh I don't know, I'm sure some of them were from there :hmm:

PompeySailor

7th Jul 2006, 19:33

The cost saving is that the Killick does more than your pay, so if you do your own work, she is not required, therefore most of her £80 per day will be saved. :ugh:

As you do not do much work for your £150 then making you do a bit of her job has double payback.;)

She also does duties, which will require a civvy on overtime (Flag****e again). She is also multiskilled, trained to carry out tasks which cover the whole admin spectrum - she can do leave, cash accounting, discipline, legal, staffing, registry work, plus many other tasks. You get a lot for your £80 with a killick writer!

Plus some of them, when asked nicely, will make the tea!

ZH875

7th Jul 2006, 20:33

Plus some of them, when asked nicely, will make the tea!Crikey, JPA really is bad.

The Rogue

9th Jul 2006, 11:46

Having just returned from the US I proceeded to do my JPA claim. I entered a CHBS hotel bill of 175 dollars and the programme then recalculated my claim in GBP using the displayed exchange rate of 0.577413 which equates to the offical rate of 1.75 dollars to the pound. The displayed converted amount which I was to recieve was 91.77. Basic maths told me that this was incorrect as sould have been exactly 100! The displayed exchange rate was correct but the calculator used a different number to process my claim - doing me out of 8.23. I reported this problem up through the helpline but have heard nothing back from them. I subsequently manually worked out each claim amount in GBP as the programmes calculator did not calculate the exchange rates correctly. It appeared to work ok on the daily subsistance page but not on CHBS bookings abroad page. I would recommend double checking each amount you are claiming in a foreign currency with the offical MOD exchange rate, and checking it against JPA. If this problem has been present since the start a lot of people could have lost a lot of money!:ugh:

ScapegoatisaSolution

9th Jul 2006, 18:28

The Rogue,
I think you have been paid the maximum overnight rate allowed which is $160. That works out to be the amount they paid you. I thought if it was booked through CHBS then they would pay you what it cost, not what the limit is. You need to take it up with your travel cell/etc to check. Hope this helps.

The Rogue

9th Jul 2006, 18:47

Scape
We have checked and you are right, if the booking is made through CHBS they are supposed to pay you the whole amount, which is not what the programme is doing at the moment. PSF agreed that the interim solution is to use the published rate, convert to GBP and put the claim in sterling.

PompeySailor

11th Jul 2006, 20:47

Dark Blue update - we have seen the way to keep manpower (slyly). We have taken the responsibility for recording discipline data away from the RN Policemen, and given it to Leading Writers - which means that the Pay Office gets to retain some more subject specialists! Signal came out today asking us to cancel all SNCO Police courses and rebook with Leading Writers "recognising that it may require more than one person per unit." Result for us, I think.

Sad thing is that even at this late stage we are still specifying who requires which role within a unit.

ident80enter

12th Jul 2006, 07:51

Just been trying to claim CEA, obviously it doesn't work and just freezes/times out after pressing submit. Anyone else having problems?:ugh:

BlahBlah25

13th Jul 2006, 21:16

In order for CEA to work correctly your HR Admin are required to record your mobility certficate in two different places within the HR Admin role, this could possibly be what is causing the system to freeze (or is it just because it is crap!!). Also if you are claiming SENA that needs to be recorded by HR Admin as well.

A tip on submitting CEA, if you override the screen you claim wll first go to the JPAC to autorise before it goes to your local approver. Also JPAC say they are going to do pay runs on a weekly basis to pay CEA so the earlier you get it in teh sooner it gets paid and if you put it into a high interest account you will get something out of the system.. However, wether or not these weekly pay runs will ecer occur is another matter altogether......

ZOFO

14th Jul 2006, 20:07

PompeySailor

15th Jul 2006, 12:44

Well that is it I have looked at this thread for some time now and the QR1001 went in today, :\ So Ill just have to wait out now and see what happens, who knows this time next week I could be NCO IC Commcen Saxa Vord or permenantly peeling spuds in the cookhouse. It is true what some people have said about redress of complaint etc... It does take a bit of ba!!s but after 21 years in the job it saddens me to do this but it seems the only course to take as we all are just getting nowhere fast, and as has been said "Up to date there have been no official complaints". Well heres mine and I hope others will take heart from this and follow suit... I will of course keep readers updated when i receive further information. (Maybe live from Colchester eh!!)

Heres Hoping :E

I don't understand the fear involved in raising a complaint. There is nothing they can do to you if you stick to facts and follow procedures. You should find that your CoC back you all the way (they are not immune to this problem), and you have a full audit trail of the complaint. If you think you are being disadvantaged because of the action you are taking, mention this to the Equal Ops Liaison person - it would count as harassment and discrimination, something the Forces can't afford to let bite them.

Good luck (if you get to MCTC, let me know and I will arrange for the Staff to let you have internet access.....)

tgarden

16th Jul 2006, 14:39

Readers of this thread may be interested in the replies I have received from Lord Drayson, the MoD Minister, about JPA. I asked:
Which targeted allowances for the Armed Forces are expected to generate savings with the introduction of the joint personnel administration system so that the changes are broadly cost neutral.
It also explains the process of consultation. The Hansard link is here. (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199900/ldhansrd/pdvn/lds06/text/60714w0229.htm)

SirToppamHat

16th Jul 2006, 15:24

We were notified a week ago that the HR actions referred to by BB25 were about to be undertaken by our Unit Staff. I believe this has now been completed. However, another part of the nonsense is that if you apply now, you will only get the 2005/6 rate. The advice is to wait until after 1 Aug 06 (if memory serves) so that you get the full rate. The way boarding school fees are going at the moment, this may be a significant difference, especially for those of us whose kids cost more than 110% of the maximum allowance.

We seem to be very lucky because the Chief Clerk has been involved in the Project. However, I believe there are already 2 redresses sitting in the CO's tray - and no, he doesn't mind a bit! Bring them on!

STH

Edited for bod spillin

LFFC

16th Jul 2006, 17:39

Readers of this thread may be interested in the replies I have received from Lord Drayson, the MoD Minister, about JPA. I asked:
It also explains the process of consultation. The Hansard link is here. (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199900/ldhansrd/pdvn/lds06/text/60714w0229.htm)

Thank you for asking such well designed and searching questions. We now know that the MOD expected to make savings in each of the following allowances:

Female Clothing Grants

Civilian Clothing Grants (Hot Posts)

Compensation for Lost and Damaged Effects

Local Overseas Allowance

Get You Home (Overseas)

Get You Home (Islands)

Northern Ireland Journeys

Northern Ireland Resident's Supplement

Recruitment and Retention Allowance (London)

Disturbance Allowance

Removal Expenses

Separation Allowances

Get You Home (Early Years)

Get You Home (Seagoers)

Subsistence Allowances

Missed Meal Payments

Special Messing Allowance

Northern Ireland Compensatory Food Allowance

Home to Duty Travel (Public) and (Private)

However, they do say that they have "generated [these] savings to offset increased provision in other areas and so ensure that the overall allowance package is broadly cost neutral."

Personally, the list above seems to have captured just about every allowance that I've ever claimed! So, it would be very interesting to know just where the increased provision is being made. I wonder if it is the provision of the JPA service itself?

dallas

16th Jul 2006, 19:41

Personally, the list above seems to have captured just about every allowance that I've ever claimed! So, it would be very interesting to know just where the increased provision is being made. I wonder if it is the provision of the JPA service itself?

Got to agree with you there LFFC. It's not going to be cost neutral if the savings from the main allowances package - and let's not mince words: the cut in allowances for the majority, stealthily brought in under the cover of JPA, is to be redirected to the lesbian submarine aircrew transexual's petticoat allowance increase.

vecvechookattack

17th Jul 2006, 07:39

Quite rightly so. For far, far too long, Lesbian Submarine aircrew transexuals have been deemed second class citizens and have not been given adequate allowances. At last they will be given an allowance to purchase much needed petticoats

BellEndBob

17th Jul 2006, 13:01

PompeySailor

17th Jul 2006, 13:07

Our Chief Clerk sent out an e-mail this morning asking for anyone with complaints to send them to him by e-mail and he would pass them on at an 'informal' briefing with the JPA team next week.
I replied that he should be reminding personnel of the FORMAL complaints procedure.
A very hostile response suggesting that the formal method is not necessary and just 'trouble making' for no good reason.
Get those complaints in NOW! :ok:

I have heard that units are being encouraged to follow this "unofficial" procedure in the hope that complaints are not made formal - and therefore cannot be used in official figures.

It's dangerous when you are being earmarked as a "trouble maker" for simply following the rules and regulations!

500days2do

18th Jul 2006, 18:07

Just a thought...

Just completed my resettlement training course and decided to 'pop' into the wonderful ladies at our 'training centre' to claim my 20% and my SLC. Two minutes completing the form...job done ! I commented to them that my 'JPA enhanced' advance of accom and subsistance had taken 38 days from acknowledgement to payment!!! They said I should recieve my cash next week...

And as my advance had taken so long to appear...I wonder if the system will pay my Visa charges and interest? Well...if the wonderful chief cash counter is anything to go by...a big fat no. He didnt think I deserved the cash from the start...

5d2d

PerArdua

21st Jul 2006, 07:58

Well it has taken them 4 months of hard work in JPA Towers and they have finally done it!:D They have managed to mess up my pay so I now join the majority and can now phone up and have nothing done for the next month.:ugh:
PA

Spotting Bad Guys

21st Jul 2006, 09:55

It's not 'GPD Taxable', is it?

Just spoken to JPAC EC having had the same issue for 3 consecutive payslips - they referred to an e-mail from the 'back office' stating that the GPD Taxable was a known problem affecting "lots of people" (their words not mine) and that a 'bulk fix' was going to be applied on the AUGUST pay run i.e end of Aug. They had also been instructed not to raise any SRs against the issue.

:ugh:

Good luck

BG

SubdiFuge

21st Jul 2006, 16:38

SBG

I've just got my June, yes that's right, June payslip and noticed this GPD Taxable debt in the bottom right hand corner. The amount was £733, so being a bit concerned I called the JPAC helpdesk and asked what it was. They gave me the same explanation that you have posted, i.e. loads of people in a similar position and you will get repaid end of August. Not good enough I said, there's 10 days to sort it out - we'll get back to you!! Not holding my breath, but I will be registering a formal complaint - and anybody outh there should do the same!

SDF

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

21st Jul 2006, 17:04

Hi Gang;

I have been lucky so far with the JPA pay debacle....until now!!!:\

Last thing before stack today, I went and had a peek at the payroll pages to see how much I'm getting at the end of July, and was pleased to see that my LSSA outstanding from January has finally been paid. :ok:

However, and this may affect loads of peeps....my increment due date....nicely annotated on the old payslips has come and gone with no increase in the basic pay. Easy to spot now as we get the standard 30.xx days pay per month. Now it only amounts to about £38 gross per month and after tax will only be worth the price odf a shabby haircut.... but the JPAC music station will be getting a call on Monday morning....:rolleyes:

Unless I'm in Cyprus!!!!

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

Always_broken_in_wilts

21st Jul 2006, 18:27

Some would say your only paid what your worth:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

lampeterexile

21st Jul 2006, 19:05

Hi Gang;
I have been lucky so far with the JPA pay debacle....until now!!!:\
Last thing before stack today, I went and had a peek at the payroll pages to see how much I'm getting at the end of July, and was pleased to see that my LSSA outstanding from January has finally been paid. :ok:
However, and this may affect loads of peeps....my increment due date....nicely annotated on the old payslips has come and gone with no increase in the basic pay. Easy to spot now as we get the standard 30.xx days pay per month. Now it only amounts to about £38 gross per month and after tax will only be worth the price odf a shabby haircut.... but the JPAC music station will be getting a call on Monday morning....:rolleyes:
Unless I'm in Cyprus!!!!
More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

Same as me on the increment front. Another thing can someone explain what NPD means. Up to now they have taken nothing. However in the next statement they have taken it out of my pay:mad: :mad:

Ex J bloke

Climebear

21st Jul 2006, 19:11

Same as me on the increment front. Another thing can someone explain what NPD means. Up to now they have taken nothing. However in the next statement they have taken it out of my pay:mad: :mad:
Ex J bloke

I rang the JPAC on this today, mine had a NPD deduction followed by an NPD credit for the same amount. The nice people explained that it was a computer glich (on JPA, who has ver heard of such a thing!!) and that they are trying to sort it out:ugh:

On the plus side - my increment was paid and so was 4 months worth of Home to Duty that stopped when JPA came online.

Green Bottle 2

21st Jul 2006, 20:40

Having just seen this months pay statement on JPA (at least the computers seem to have been working quite quickly) and yet again for the third month no flying pay. I am banging my head against a brick wall speaking to the JPA line - I am being told that it is being sorted, but now I am nearly 2000 GBP out of pocket.
I am not able to spend much time chasing this at the moment due to work rate on a course. What is the official complaints procedure mentioned? I was given an address to write to , but is there an e-mail address I can write to? The complaints procedure does not seem to be well advertised.
Maybe redress is the only way forward??:ugh:

ZOFO

21st Jul 2006, 21:02

Like everyone on this thread I have again checked the Jul pay roll and yet again since Feb this year I have not been paid my due daily rate of pay. Had a nice talk with my Flt Cmdr today about my 1001, along the lines of "Let me talk to OC PSF tonight" Well it has now got beyond that I like everyone on this thread want what is owed to us all pompey Sailer, thanks for your advice, the 1001 is still winging its way to Harry the Staish now as it is Jul and 5 Months is quite enough. Oh yes it may seem like teaching you all to suck eggs, but don't forget when you finally receive your much deserved back pay for flying pay etc.. dont forget to Gen App for the interest that it would have gathered if you had placed it in another (High Interest) account... I am :ok: you are quite within your rights to do this... As Pompey Sailor said before, I think those in JPA Towers are now at loss, and we are all about to fall by the way side in favour of getting the kit together for our other service people, Ah well Could be worse, I could be an Israeli Conscript :ooh: Bet they never brought into JPA

Hoots

22nd Jul 2006, 17:41

saw pay chit online, have changed over to PAS this month, but still getting flying pay and have no idea how they worked out the basic pay. Also doesnt tell you what level they have inserted you at, so I guess more time on the phone on monday. Wouldnt be so bad, but spoke to them a few weeks ago trying to prevent this all happening, still good to see the Group Captain responsible for JPA got an OBE, at everyone else's expense. I really do think the way the pay chit is presented is very poor with minuses and pluses all on the deductions side. Leaves me wondering whats been taken off and what hasn't until i get the calculator out and try to make it fit the total deductions. Anyone else think its presented poorly?

Vim_Fuego

22nd Jul 2006, 18:43

Almost_done

25th Jul 2006, 15:01

Oracle Payroll Technical/Functional SpecialistUK-HC-Hampshire
Apply Online
Required Qualifications/Skills:
Essential:
· Demonstrable knowledge of Oracle Payroll and in particular the Oracle Advanced Benefits package
· In-depth technical understanding and experience of supporting Oracle
· Candidate must be an excellent communicator both written and orally
· Proven track record of working in matrix structured teams
The ability to work under pressure and to tight timescales
Open minded, determined and a self–starter able to work alongside similarly skilled peers
Desirable:
· Experience of the full system development lifecycle
· Experience of working closely with Services personnel.
· Security Cleared; (Note – can commence on a BC level of clearance if necessary.
Additional Information
Location: UK-HC-Hampshire
Status: Full Time, Permanent
Career Level: Experienced (Non-Manager)
Reference Code: DP/ORACLE
Job Category: Defence/Armed Forces
Relevant Work Experience: 2+ to 5 Years
Education Level: Bachelor's Degree

Well if this advert is true, it seems that they are recruiting some more personnel to help 'fix' all the pay c*ck-ups.
Oh and the ad was found on Monster Jobs (http://jobsearch.monster.co.uk/getjob.asp?JobID=45085610&AVSDM=2006%2D06%2D30+09%3A30%3A00&Logo=1&cy=uk&sort=rv&vw=d&fn=556&lid=35043,1250), under engineers/defence.

Danny_Boy

25th Jul 2006, 15:12

Education Level: Bachelor's Degree

Be intersting to see what they are planning to pay someone who is degree-level educated to be a Payroll Technical/Functional Specialist.

Perhaps from that we can assess whether the applicants are more likely to have a first in maths/computer science from Cambridge, or a 3rd in Aircraft Modelling from the local super-duper-academy-technical-specialist-college that New Labour opened to keep people in educayshun and therefore youth unemployment figures down.

snapper41

25th Jul 2006, 17:00

I'm deployed OOA for 6 months to a location where we have no access to JPA. This is my first month away, so will I get LOA and LSSA that's due? When (if) I get paid, because I can't get to JPA, I will have no idea whether the pay is right or not. For some reason, I got 800 gbp paid into my account by HMG this month - I have no idea why; I rang back to my home unit to ask, and of course they can't access my JPA account so couldn't tell me. Will the error (I suspect it is an error!) be deducted this month? God knows...:uhoh: :confused:

Vim_Fuego

25th Jul 2006, 21:26

Mine has never been anything less than two chits long...I end up sat at my desk staring at it for an hour or so until most of it makes sense.
My pay came in correct last month and I was paid some back pay/money owed...trouble is I've no idea what is right anymore. I'm could well be owed more but the pay chits are so coded.

Just to say that all the problems that occurred over the past 3 months, that they paid up for in Junes pay packet, are now back in July's pay packet...

I also hear on the grapevine that they are not going to rectify it until Augusts pay packet....

Compressorstall

26th Jul 2006, 15:08

:* 4 Hours! That's the amount of time I have spent submitting one claim today when I have a proper job to do, actually it's 3 jobs due to gapping and deployment, but I spent 4 hours either typing and clicking through the myriad of options, on the phone to PSF - sorry HR - or swearing through sheer frustration. Advice from HR was to try it later after normal working hours, or to come in early tomorow. Add to this that 2 other officers in my office have spent a similar amount of time submitting claims, or helping each other with understanding the admin maze that is JPA, that's about 12 hours' work that hasn't been done. Do I tell them not to try and submit claims when there's work to be done? There is operational output, but there are the needs of the individual too.
Hopefully someone might take notice of the immense frustration. We are supposed to be warfighters, but when you say 'warfighters' you don't get an image of our modern-day gladiators stuck at a very slow computer screen trying to work out what gobbledygook claim they should submit.
Bring back the F1171 so that we can write the claim and then get on with our core work whilst it is processed.:mad:

500days2do

26th Jul 2006, 15:19

I can certainly mirror your feeling and problems. My days are numbered but even so trying to work my way through claims is a nightmare. No one is interested or even bothered...!!! But hey...what the hell, in days im a civvy and the backlash from taking 'those in authority' to court will be negligable for me. I wonder how many Chief clerks and OC A'S will end up with 'credit rating' problems after court judgements are made against them. Just a thought.

5d2d

airborne_artist

26th Jul 2006, 15:24

I wonder how many Chief clerks and OC A'S will end up with 'credit rating' problems after court judgements are made against them.

Do they owe you money personally, then? If it's owed to you by the RAF, then it will be MoD that carries the can, not any individual employees.

That said, it would be fun to use www.moneyclaim.gov.uk to get what is owed to you :E

500days2do

26th Jul 2006, 15:38

I do believe 'crown' immunity was removed some years back, so the faceless answer of its the 'MOD' fault will not wear.In fact that answer is all to common amongst senior position holders and as such is a get out clause which allows them to duck the responsibilty of their decisions. In a way it will be interesting to see who they pass the court summons too...maybe it will be a catalyst for change when every unit has their OC A and Chief Clerk attending court on the same day.

5d2d

Compressorstall

26th Jul 2006, 15:47

Actually, I am not bothered about the court aspects, I just want our office to be able to concentrate on our important job whilst the admin task runs alongside, not to the detriment of all else.

Rather be Gardening

26th Jul 2006, 16:00

I wonder how many units are listing JPA amongst the 'things affecting operational output' on the brief to their AOCs prior to the AFVs? I've seen a few recently that have - and I gather people on the ground are being fairly frank when asked for comment. Tell it like it is - this is the worst blow to quality of life for personnel since....... (thinks hard, beads of sweat on brow.....) DCS15 screwed up our medical services. :(

500days2do

26th Jul 2006, 16:19

That would require some senior officer backbone and as we all know thats in short supply too.

5d2d

yorkie_64

31st Jul 2006, 09:04

Just been advised that payments for those serving in Europe, no payments have been made to the overseas bank account ...................

Lord Trenchards Brat

31st Jul 2006, 09:34

My apologies if this subject has been covered before but I think it needs saying and putting in the public domain.

How long will it be before an airman, say on frontline Sqn, with his pay all messed up causing them some distress because he has mortgage and children etc, makes a mistake causing a flight safety incident or god forbid we lose an aircraft?

It would never happen in the old days - If there was a mess up in pay the Chief Clerk could authorise cash in hand immediately to cover short fall and help Johnny airman feed his children - they cant anymore.

Human factors are an important part of our management culture now and therefore this JPA debacle needs addressing. It causes hours away from the primary task when we are breaking point and the stress will affect flight safety be it from a maintainer’s perspective or aircrew. I accept we are all professional - but we are also human!

Comp Charlie

31st Jul 2006, 12:00

Yep, just heard from a mate serving in Germany that NOBODY has been paid this month.

What a crock of sh1t this is :*

I've just returned from Op Highbrow (Beirut Airlift) which was my first time on a JPA-Run Flight Sub Imprest.

What an abortion. Those who have the isfortune of running said imprests nowadays have my deepest sympathies.

This particular TL had 17 people on his FSI which must be nothing short of a nightmare.

I remember the old days of FSI which seemed fine to me, then the abortion of 'actuals' (anyone remember Gander during Purple Star in '96 and the amount of Combination Platters on the bar in 'Reflections'? :D :ok: )

This new system is a joke, as is everything and anything to do with JPA that I personally have had the misfortune to have seen (over 700 quid owed to me in claims - sorry, expenses) since April. The first few hundred quid has filtered into my bank account so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

When will it be admitted the system is flawed, peoples lives are being adversely affected, and eat humble pie and admit mistakes were made, apologies made, and lets get back to the (not quite now in retrospect) bad old days...

CC

BEagle

31st Jul 2006, 13:07

PompeySailor

31st Jul 2006, 20:49

Which makes things a bit of a mockery for anyone who has PVR'd and still has a RAFResO commitment.

You are supposed to give your details to Binnsworth if you change your address. But if they faff with JPA and 'lose you', then trying to call-out reservist officers when Blair has another war in some far flung $hithole is going to be...............difficult.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap, dickheads of JPA!

Current data has been ODBCd to Access. However, Access cannot be installed to lots of workstations as it is embargoed as part of a legal proceeding (code copyright). Hey ho, let's go......

Pontius Navigator

31st Jul 2006, 21:02

Heard today of a very kind FS who has given Aunty Betty a personal interest free loan of £500 and someone else who has chipped in £100.:\

ZH875

31st Jul 2006, 21:23

The JPAC state that the Majority, but not the whole, of the RAF has been mispaid this month, with a deduction for NPD, but no NPD Offset to repay it, and that this will be corrected in Augusts main pay.

So if 40,000 (out of 48,000) have a discrepancy of £54.45, that means that £2,178,000 is an interest free loan for the Government. Wouldn't it be nice to know where this money is being used.

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

31st Jul 2006, 21:32

Hmmm;

I did wonder why JPA was so slow this afternoon.:confused:

My pay SR (the current one) has been running for 6 of its 10 day period so far with no action yet!!!:ugh:

How will it cope with NCA up-banding in 2 months time and/or peeps transfers to the PA pay spine????:rolleyes:

More LAter;
'J' Bloke!!:cool:

SubdiFuge

1st Aug 2006, 05:18

My formal complaint has been submitted through the Chf Clk. BTW he was very helpful and there does not appear to be a reluctance to send in formal complaints, not from my unit anyway.

SDF

The Masked Geek

1st Aug 2006, 09:08

The JPAC state that the Majority, but not the whole, of the RAF has been mispaid this month, with a deduction for NPD, but no NPD Offset to repay it, and that this will be corrected in Augusts main pay.

Here's a really simple solution to the problem, if they stop taking the NPD in the first place then they won't need to offset it....idiots.

MilSpFunc

1st Aug 2006, 09:45

"There is at least one RAF chap here who was not paid by JPA for 3 months. He had to get a cheque from the Admin Office to cover. JPA sent him a bill each month though to say that he owed the MOD a month's pay! Of interest is the fact that a very senior RAF officer, who was responisible for pushing JPA for into the MOD has now retired to a job with the civi company who run it. Oh well jobs for the boys."

The above post was taken from the Army RumouR SErvice (ARRSE) web site. Anybody able to confirm who the Very Senior RAF officer might be? If indeed there is one who has gone to EDS or Oracle.

Almost_done

1st Aug 2006, 10:16

Now that would be the one and only 'Scottish Officer' (http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/archive/2006/05/27?PHPSESSID=45c70a80e7f2b68ede922400935d0946).

Ali Barber

1st Aug 2006, 12:45

Be careful, the last time I ranted about the Scottish "Group Captain who became an Air Chief Marshal and went to work for EADS" I got suspended.

Working overeas, my pay is split between my UK bank and a local bank (in local currency). Last month (end of June) I got my UK pay and my local currency pay then, a few days later my local currency pay again. The fixed forces exchange rate has changed this month which, in turn has changed the LOA; you would have to be in the perfect circumstance for this to be a neutral effect. As of cease work today, nothing has gone in to the local bank although the UK element has been paid. Not seen a pay statement since the end of May.

This is not a whinge that I am short of money as the correction will be very minor indeed. But, with 12 equal monthly payments and fluctuating rates (and lack of pay statements) I have no idea what I am expected to be paid. JPA is a farce and heads need to roll!

MATZ

1st Aug 2006, 13:05

Almost_done

1st Aug 2006, 13:48

Be careful, the last time I ranted about the Scttish "Group Captain who became an Air Chief Marshal and went to work for EADS" I got suspended.

I'm not ranting, only giving praise where it's due.:ugh:

Comp Charlie

1st Aug 2006, 15:32

Of interest is the fact that a very senior RAF officer, who was responisible for pushing JPA for into the MOD has now retired to a job with the civi company who run it. Oh well jobs for the boys."

Quelle Surprise

:D

CC

snapper41

1st Aug 2006, 17:24

Are any of the Upper Echelons (Their Airships) being fecked about by JPA, or is it just us lesser mortals? Any ADCs/PSOs/MAs out there care to comment!?

PompeySailor

1st Aug 2006, 17:41

From the RAF intranet:

Regrettably, an error has been made by AFPAA in the processing of July salary payments, which were due to be paid into the bank by today, 31 July. This affects most European banks (with the exception of those in Cyprus) and some international payments (with the exception of the USA and Canada). These payments will be credited into the relevant banks by Friday, 4 Aug at the latest. Further communication will be issued as the details of the specific units involved become available. This situation was the result of regrettable human error.

I do like the last sentance. :ugh:

OK - if they admit that it is the result of "regrettable human error" - then they must know which "human" it was. This "human" should therefore be disciplined and held accountable for any charges that become due, under our banner of accountability. What's the betting it comes down to a keyboard monkey rather than some incompetent higher up the ladder?

Appalling. I hope that the press are still picking this one up.

donald stott

1st Aug 2006, 19:47

4fitter

1st Aug 2006, 19:52

I took it upon myself to take a personal interest in the JPA grief enveloping one of my ACs and a flt lt. Surprisingly, all sorted, however, this should not be the case and I have made myself rather unpopular with some grown up peeps. C'est la vie, I've applied for redundancy.

London Mil

1st Aug 2006, 20:38

Are any of the Upper Echelons (Their Airships) being fecked about by JPA, or is it just us lesser mortals? Any ADCs/PSOs/MAs out there care to comment!?

I understand that there was a 2 star who didn't get his £180K + gratuity on retirement. That must have smarted.

PompeySailor

2nd Aug 2006, 16:18

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/02/eds_offshore/

If you think that the help desk is poor now....

"Good morning, this is Ravi, how may I be helping you today, was not the football at the Old Trafford wonderful on the Saturday and is not the weather fantastic in, er, er, Leesestershire...."

MilSpFunc

3rd Aug 2006, 07:41

BEagle

3rd Aug 2006, 07:55

"(EDS)......has already cut around 1,000 jobs this year..."

Any nominations for the 1001st.......? :E

Usual fighter aircrew rules apply!

Ali Barber

3rd Aug 2006, 08:33

Would love to suggest one BEagle, but then I'd have to buy you and everyone else who reads this a beer!

ZOFO

3rd Aug 2006, 19:13

I was due to move up a level in pay last month; however, my pay statement has remained the same. Anyone experienced this? Would ring JPA, but as you are all probably aware, they will take details of query and ring me back in 3 weeks or so.:ugh:

donald stott

I really would not get your hopes up, I have been waiting to move up to the higher pay band Ground trades since my Qualification for it on the 17 Feb 06, still nothing. JPA what a load of :mad: ,S

Rather be Gardening

4th Aug 2006, 13:40

This is on the JPA homesite:

Stn Cdrs

Copy to:
AFBSC
MA/DCDS(Pers)
All RAF 2* Officers
All RAF 1* Officers

RAF JPA ROLL-OUT UPDATE

1. I fully recognise that the introduction of JPA to the RAF has had many more problems than were envisaged. I truly believe that the RAF did everything possible to prepare itself for the delivery of JPA and I know that significant numbers of personnel have worked tirelessly to overcome the difficulties that we face. However, the fact remains that it is an immature product and much work remains to be done. That said, when I consider what has been achieved already, I am in no doubt that JPA will provide the level of service we require for the future. This note provides background to current JPA issues and explains what is being done to resolve them. I have provided a similar text for publication in the next issue of RAF News.

2. JPAC Enquiry Centre. The Enquiry Centre is the ‘decisive point’ which could unlock many of the current difficulties. Arguably, any new IT system of this size will have its problems. However, these have been compounded by the inability of the JPAC Enquiry Centre to provide the level of service required. With over 5,000 requests outstanding, much work remains to resolve the problems (although we know that some of these 5,000 enquiries have been submitted 4 or 5 times in an attempt to get a reply). Only when this backlog has been removed, which should be by Sep 06, can AFPAA’s customer charter standards of timely response be achieved. It is worth noting that the Enquiry Centre began with a staff of 35, it now has 55 and will increase to 90 in the Autumn when the Royal Navy plan to come on-line. We expect a ‘steady state’ hit rate of some 60 RAF enquiries per day compared with nearly 190 at the moment. RAF staff are already supplementing the JPAC back office and will be there until at least the end of Aug; in recognising how important it is to fix this, a further 6 RAF personnel will be detached to assist for this period. These SACs and Cpls are doing an excellent job in helping with the clearance of outstanding queries and providing a level of Service knowledge previously lacking in the Enquiry Centre.

3. Training. The training provided to RAF self service users and HR professionals has not been good enough. A complete overhaul of the e-learning training is being undertaken to provide a revised package in October 2006. In addition, RAF HR staffs are working with JPA staffs to produce simplified “how do I” guides for self-service and professional users. Further HR specialist training is being carried out at regional seminars, the first of which was held at RAF Benson on 20 Jul 06. Others will follow at RAFC Cranwell and RAF Leuchars in the next 2-3 weeks. A matrix has been distributed to units describing the division of responsibilities between unit staff and the JPAC EC. This work includes links to documents describing how to carry out specific actions. The 2nd edition of this document will be published this week and should clarify the JPAC/Unit HR areas of responsibility. Additionally, AFPAA are forming a roving training team which will be in place by mid-Sep 06.

4. Posting Preferences. To date, some 6,000 RAF personnel have yet to log on to JPA for the first time. Moreover, only 16,000 individuals have logged their choices of future assignment and location. Step by step instructions on exactly how to enter these choices are available on the JPA ‘Self Service Guide’. This basic action needs to be taken as soon as possible.

5. There is a raft of other work underway, including:

a. Flight Sub-Imprest Administration. A paper has been submitted to the Joint Requirements Steering group proposing improvements in Flight Sub-Imprest administration and proposing a maximum rate rather than actuals for incidental expenses.

b. Pay Statements. Units have reported that Pay statements have been addressed wrongly. The pay statement address is taken from RAF establishment data. It is the Unit responsibility to ensure that this data is accurate. I understand that there is a backlog of establishment updates to be input into JPA by the RAF. This will be resolved by Oct 06. Pay errors continue to receive most urgent attention in recognition of our responsibility to pay people accurately and on time. With the Jul pay now going into bank accounts, I will compare the error rate with the 650 in Jun. This compares with an average of 150-200 a month before JPA was implemented. I make this latter point because there have always been pay problems and we should not pretend that they will be eradicated totally. What I expect in the future is a far more responsive system than we have ever had before.

c. Subsistence Rates. Units and individuals have registered discontent about the capped actual subsistence system. The new systems will pay for the food and drink consumed, up to a rate exactly equivalent to the allowance under the previous system. It will not allow a claim for cash in lieu of food, as was previously the case.

d. Other Allowances. Other allowances have been rebalanced and retargeted within the same overall budget. This has allowed payment of Disturbance Allowance to single personnel for the first time and for higher levels of LSA to compensate those who spend the most time away from home.

e. RN Go-Live. Planning for the RN roll-out is well under way. The RAF will not have access to JPA from 14 - 22 Oct 06. This window will allow RN data to be migrated onto the system. Other ideas such as having a dedicated RN helpline number at go live, are being considered to prevent RN roll out impacting adversely on the RAF. The JPA system is being bolstered with extra hardware in advance of RN launch.

6. Feedback. Senior RAF Administrators attending this week’s Personnel Conference have been briefed by my Focal Point Team Leader and AFPAA’s D Change. This session addressed the issues submitted by units and gave direction on how they would be addressed (Annex A refers). I hope that this two-way dialogue has enabled stn staff to represent local concerns and take back the hard facts. On the same basis, Chf Clks are invited to visit the JPAC and AFPAA Model Office at Centurion Building in Gosport. Please ensure that your Chf Clk takes advantage of this opportunity [points of contact are: Mrs Doreen Allen (93844 ext 2126) or WO1 Hill (93844 ext 2567)].

7. I recognise that the speed of JPA improvements has not been at the pace that any of us would have wished. If I look back over the past 4 months, we have made huge steps forward, from system functionality through to data accuracy. Perhaps most importantly is that we understand JPA better. Whilst progress has been slow, we have broken the back of this issue and once the problems in the JPAC Enquiry Centre have been addressed, we will be well on the path to success. Rest assured, I will continue to drive for an improved service.

AMP

Annex:

A. Major JPA Issues Raised by Units (http://www.pprune.org/forums/ANNEX%20A%20TO%20AMP%20LETTER%20-%2028%20JUL.doc).

Brace yourselves, RN. Inbound! :rolleyes:

Rev I. Tin

5th Aug 2006, 20:38

Good luck to the RN! Nice of them to turn access off for a week in Oct. Is that in case it gets overloaded again?

Anyway... Whilst applying for next term's CEA/BSA have found that my kids' school has been re-evaluated and no longer enjoys a higher rate for my eldest in year 7! Something to do with not much difference in school fees between years 6 and 7.

Absolute f:mad: g b:mad: s

I am quietely hopeful that Headmaster will raise the school fees a sufficient amount to get into the senior rate for next year!

Edited for biff spelling

BEagle

5th Aug 2006, 22:17

"Subsistence Rates. Units and individuals have registered discontent about the capped actual subsistence system. The new systems will pay for the food and drink consumed, up to a rate exactly equivalent to the allowance under the previous system. It will not allow a claim for cash in lieu of food, as was previously the case."

Well, that hardly "explains what is being done to resolve" the "...discontent about the capped actual subsistence system" which has been "registered" by "units and individuals".....

The Masked Geek

5th Aug 2006, 23:29

I like the way he chose to use june's 650 pay errors as an example in his "there have always been pay problems" pish. I wonder what he makes of July where I believe we had 11,000 errors and, of course, most overseas airmen/women not getting payed at all.....

Then there's no mention of the lack of SSL security......I wonder if they even care.

Hydraulic Palm Tree

6th Aug 2006, 19:28

Are the BSA/CEA rates for 06/07 out yet?

SirToppamHat

6th Aug 2006, 19:52

HPT Yes they are.

I went in this afternoon as I never seem to get time during the week without someone interrupting. I have 3 to claim for, so thought i would allow some time for it.

Anyway, I was faced with the usual JPA crap - statements that I am not entitled as I don't meet the mobility or accompanied status requirements (both of which I had to request to be considered for a waiver on the grounds that the info in the system was bolleaux) and another statement that No 1 son is too old for the school he is attending - to which I suggested I would be happy to get the Senior Rate, even though he is still officially classified as attending a Junior/middle school.

Anyway, back to the rates - the Chief Clerk told everyone at my unit to wait until after 1 Aug 06 before applying for CEA, so as to ensure we received the new rates. Sorry, I only know the 2 I qualify for as follows:
Junior Boarding Was - £3496 - Is now £3695 per child per term
Senior Boarding Was - £4557 - Is now £4872 per child per term
At the point that you put the details in, it tells you what the ceiling rate is.

My understanding was that these rates were based on the average cost of the top 10(?) most popular schools to which those in receipt of CEA send their kids, but everyone I know says that the school fees are increasing by around 10% each year, whereas this year's CEA has risen by about 6% and 7% (last year's was considerably less if memory serves).

I still don't understand the logic behind the school children's visits travel claim rules.

I hope this was helpful.

STH

SubdiFuge

6th Aug 2006, 20:49

HPT - The rates are out and on www.rafcom.co.uk under pay and allowances.

STH - I am going to submit an FOI request asking how the rates are derived and what schools are used, along with the rates for them. I suspect the smell of bullsh1t

SDF

Farfrompuken

6th Aug 2006, 21:33

TMG,
I'm one of those who hasn't received July's pay as well as allowances stretching back to JPA's 'Rollout'. I'm owed thousands.
I'm not going to go into details as yet, as I've several options to explore, but suffice to say I will not work for a company that cannot pay me on time.

Comp Charlie

7th Aug 2006, 08:08

but suffice to say I will not work for a company that cannot pay me on time.

:D Hear hear...

CC

WPH

7th Aug 2006, 14:41

Quote 'It is worth noting that the Enquiry Centre began with a staff of 35, it now has 55 and will increase to 90 in the Autumn when the Royal Navy plan to come on-line.'

Unbelievable to think that the original concept was that 35 people could deal with all (45 000 ?) RAF personnel admin issues - I'm sure most Stns have a PSF at least half that size! Having seen the problems we've had, is 90 even enough for the RN/RAF combined?

Nice to see servicemen stepping in again to dig another poorly conceived and introduced project out of the poo!

And no - I'm not an Adminer!

WPH

Rev I. Tin

11th Aug 2006, 11:59

I was informed today by the CEA clerk at the Secret Oxon Airbase that JPAC are experiencing a backlog in CEA claims and payments.

Total number of CEA payments made to unit personnel?

1 (lucky him!)

If payment is not forthcoming by the time school term starts, payments will be made at unit level.

Has JPA done anything right yet?
Oh sorry, naughty me. I keep getting told that JPA works and is wonderful. It must be true.:ugh:

Almost_done

16th Aug 2006, 06:53

The latest daring move to improve the JPAC Service?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2006/08/16/calex16.gif

Inspector Dreyfuss

17th Aug 2006, 15:08

Idling over a coffee and a copy of the latest 'Eye' I note that the JPA saga and the rumblings on a certain website have caught the eye of the 'esteemed organ'. See page 3 of the latest Eye 9the one with John reid on the front).

Spotting Bad Guys

22nd Aug 2006, 10:04

Payslips available online today. Yes! GPD Taxable finally sorted out (after four months of trying.....)

Computer says 'yes' this time.:D Hopefully that's the end of it.

SBG

Rather be Gardening

22nd Aug 2006, 13:14

Er.... possibly not for everyone. Have a look at the thread 'Refund of Legal Expenses' and if you think that's bad wait to see what JPA can do to people leaving on redundancy. Has the PVR function been fixed yet????

C130 Techie

22nd Aug 2006, 19:42

£69 short in July due to NPD problem. £69 credit for August sorted?
NO
GPD Debit of £257 for August thats 1.5 times my net HTD. T:mad: rs
The system is CR@P

Vim_Fuego

22nd Aug 2006, 19:54

I'm not in for a week or so...I take it the pay chits are online...I was £240 down on last month and was kind of hoping it would have been sorted for August.

Anyone else still got the NDP and NCA FP issues occurring this month?...If so I'm going to break my 20.5 year (so far) golden rule and go in during my leave and listen to 'Radio JPAC' for what its worth...:(

Spotting Bad Guys

22nd Aug 2006, 20:25

OK, sorry guys - clearly not sorted for everyone. I've posted here a few times detailing the many issues I've had since JPA's rollout and been flamed a time or two for whinging...I was just glad that after four months of trying they fixed the GPD Taxable that they've overpaid once and taken back three times....

My pay statement's still not correct BTW - there is a spurious payment and debit of over £1500 (cancel each other out so I suppose it's OK) and lots of entries for £0.00.
Best of luck fellas

SBG

Rather be Gardening

24th Aug 2006, 12:39

And here's JPAC's latest wheeze for dealing with 'expenses' queries. I kid you not - it's from the JPA website:

A large number of incidents have been logged with the JPAC Enquiry Centre as “technical faults” relating to the JPA I-Expenses process. For a large proportion of these calls the issue has arisen from lack of understanding of the process or intermittent issues which have now been resolved.

To enable AFPAA technical support teams to focus resource on valid system issues a number of outstanding vantive incidents will be closed with reference to this operational bulletin. Personnel will not be individually contacted regarding these closures.

I take it the 'valid system issues' they're talking about are how the hell they'll cope with the RN when they join the happy throng of JPA users. For those of you still waiting for a response, don't hold your breath. It's anyone's guess as to how you'll know whether you're being written off as system numpty or not, because they're not going to tell you. Last time I read anything this surreal was Alice in Wonderland........:*

JNo

24th Aug 2006, 13:15

I had an NPD of £300 last month - but that's the least of my worries. I live in an unfurnished Married quarter. Simple enough one would think. Why then (since April) have I been paying for 2 (yes two) fully furnished quarters AND for living in the mess with full food contributions?? Am seriously hoping it comes through this month. Doubt it will of course. Still at least I'll see at some point - won't I??? :confused:

snapper41

24th Aug 2006, 14:50

Having been promoted in early July, imagine my joy to find that I have been paid less in my new rank than in my old one. Thanks, JPA.

Farfrompuken

24th Aug 2006, 18:47

Well it looks like I'll at least get paid for August:D But STILL the incorrect amount, with no arrears!!!

I'm just owed hundreds rather than thousands:)

The RAF are in serious breach of contract, with not just me. They are laying themselves wide open for a world of legal nightmare. The courts will not view these as `'Teething Problems' and will, quite rightly, award hefty constructive dismissal payouts to those who have had enough.

JPA needed sorting out pre-rollout. This is way too late and quite frankly disgusting for an employer to behave in such a way.

But I suppose it demonstrates the level of contempt those at the top of the food chain have for those of us who keep them in employment.

TMJ

29th Aug 2006, 17:20

Then there's no mention of the lack of SSL security......I wonder if they even care.

According to a Stn Cdr's Forum post I've seen it will be introduced when our dark blue colleagues come onboard the good ship JPA.

TMJ

29th Aug 2006, 17:31

I had an NPD of £300 last month - but that's the least of my worries.

My NPD is for a truly trivial ammout, but I was amused to see that as well as NPD and NPD Offset lines on the payslip, I've now acquired an NPD Arrears line which had corrected the problem that the NPD Offset line isn't Offstting the NPD line. I awit next month's statement with bated breath to see if these lines will continue to reproduce...

The Rogue

29th Aug 2006, 17:52

Just checked Augusts pay and true to form JPA has paid me incorrectly for the 5th month running.

Additionally, just tried claiming for incidental expenses abroad - if you use a foreign currency it throws up an error although it shows the exchange rate. Only way round it is to do all the conversions yourself and do it in GBP. I get the same result for all expense claims except for daily subsistance (prob because I hassled them for weeks when even this didn't work several months ago).

It also appears to have put a random person in my command chain who I have never heard of and asked him for approval for my advance - therefore I never got it - all on the credit card again I guess. Passed on the fault. Have subsequently tried to claim back all that went on my card and the same person appears again and claim rejected!

Have tried being helpful and passed on all glitches with the system but they have still not called me back... rather annoying since it took me almost 2 hours to type the claim in the first place.

Good news - recieved home to duty for the first time this month - bad news, they got two other things wrong on the same statement and HTD needs to be back-dated to April.....:ugh:

SirToppamHat

29th Aug 2006, 17:59

OK so the trunks are being packed, Tuck mountain is being squeezed in, hair cuts all-round tomorrow, but has BSA/CEA been paid yet? NOPE!

It's only about £14,000 for mine! What am I supposed to tell the Bursar?

Anyone know if there's a special Pay Run for BSA/CEA?

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

My understanding is that this will be paid locally if necessary - no sign yet.

STH

Statty

29th Aug 2006, 19:02

SirToppamHat

29th Aug 2006, 19:31

Thanks Statty - doesn't give much time to sort it out if it doesn't happen ...

STH

FFP

29th Aug 2006, 19:40

Send them to the local comprehensive school. Job done and no relying on JPA:E

Biggus

29th Aug 2006, 20:28

Statty

29th Aug 2006, 21:30

Statty

Target date for CEA payments, as announced/notified on JPA bulletin site, is indeed 31 Aug. However, ..........

When I was paid CEA earlier in the year I got it in a second payrun, 'Run 2' as indicated on JPA, for that particular month. Since my JPA payslip currently only has Run 1 for August, with no CEA included, and there is no '31-AUG-2006-********-Run 2' indicated, I personally am not expecting to receive CEA on time.

I will be visiting PSF tomorrow!!

Watch this space!

Biggus, wishing you luck for 31 Aug. Once, just once would JPA do what it said on the tin. Though I doubt a visit to PSF tomorrow will give you any more confirmation - it may well be a case of waiting until Thursday, trooping into PSF, joining the queue (depending on the Unit) and waiting for the next pearl of wisdom emanating from the JPAC.

Where R We?

30th Aug 2006, 09:26

PompeySailor

30th Aug 2006, 10:38

Just been chatting to my boss and let him know what had been posted here.

Cue a call to JPAC, then JPAC to PSF....pay run will now happen on 8 Sep! Where does that leave you guys who probably won't see the money until a week or so after that?

Good luck with sorting it all out.

What you need to do is to get something from your Chain of Command/HR expert explaining that because of JPA the payments will be delayed. The schools should be happy with that, and should not start levying late payment charges. Any late payment charges should be passed to your Chief Clerk for consideration (similar to the way that bank charges can be recovered). However, the schools will need to be sure that the charges they make are legal and not fished out of thin air!

Blunt&Proud

30th Aug 2006, 10:57

I felt I had to add my twopenneth to this delightful saga... In accordance with directions from my PSF (sorry, Unit HR), I completed the paperwork for BSA (sorry, now CEA) in early Jun. At the deadline date, it was all returned to me on the instructions of JPAC and was given the instruction to "do it yourself!". Easy I thought/hoped - wrong; this identified a catalogue of underlying data errors.

My children had no details and I (and my HR) could not get to update the information.
Even though JPA recognised that I was serving in Wiltshire (and have been now for 5 years (please post me soon back to the real air force)) - I was 'administered' by Witton!
Local unit can't administer/update my details.
Witton can't update my details as I'm not posted there!
Only Unit HR can input CEA(SENA) and Mobility certificate details - but the page is inaccessible from the Unit HR menu! (Not a self service function either).After a month of PSF backdoor chats with Worthy Down, the core data was manually updated/corrected (and I believe some elements of the menu's changed) and now we were able to actually entering the claim in mid Jul!

The was input claim was accepted by JPA and (apparently) notification was sent to my Unit HR. However the actual claim was not included for approval. Another 3 weeks delay whilst it was traced in the system and sent to the right place.

We now get to the end of Aug, the claim has been processed, approved, and (even according to information from PMA) has been 'paid'.

'Guaranteed' paid on 25 Aug in the suplematary pay run - that did not occur!
'Will be included' in the suplementary re-run on 29 Aug - that did not run!
'Ommited' from the (hopefully) normal pay run on 31 Aug!
'Now rumoured' for 8 Sep - believe this if you will!Now this is all well and good if you have significant assets casually availble to cover the Services breaches of contracts (don't get me started on months of no actual pay, and scewed-up/delayed expenses!); but since term starts on 3 Sep and the school fees were due on the 29 Aug (and this was stressed to Unit HR) it creates embarrasement for all. The xx% surcharge for late payment of fees will be separately invoiced to the RAF!

The bottom line is that this system has supposedly been in place from 20 Mar and providing 'full' support from 1 Apr. It is now nearly Sep (6 months on) and we still are having to fight all the way to get a half decent HR system.

God help us when (if) the Navy and Army are forced to join in!

Rev I. Tin

30th Aug 2006, 11:32

Blunty,

In a similar situation to you, however, the secret Oxon Airbase will pay CEA out of Station funds.
Anyway, the MOD has decided that, in order to improve the morale of its troops, CEA is to be 'reviewed'.
That will mean that we are more efficient, no longer have distractions caused by the worry of not receiving CEA and use the time we would have spent applying for it on extra PT in order to do do the AFT and OFT.

It's a win/win situation, you lucky chap:ok:

Biggus

30th Aug 2006, 19:59

Logged onto JPA this morning, no change from yesterday, see post #996. Went to PSF. Staff there were helpful enough, and it's not their fault, but there wasn't much they could do. Talk of second CEA run next week, RAF 'should' pay any charges incurred, etc. Went away less than satisfied.

Logged onto JPA about 3pm today, and lo and behold, a '31-AUG-2006-********-Run 2' on my payslip, for payment of CEA. So it looks as if I will get paid CEA tomorrow, watch this space. But all very 11th hour since the claim was approved on 2nd Aug!

Hydraulic Palm Tree

31st Aug 2006, 04:00

well I have been underpaid again by about a grand despite a formal complaint being submitted last month but the good news is that they seem to have paid me double CEA with 16900 quid being paid to my bank account this morning!

Guess I now have the upper hand and they will no doubt be bleating to get it back quickly - not until they get my pay right and reply to the last and new formal complaint about pay errors.

HPT

Ali Barber

31st Aug 2006, 04:06

Had "bank error in your favour" at end of June's pay and was paid twice. Despite repeated queries, no idea when or how they will recover it.

12 twists per inch

31st Aug 2006, 11:11

My pay hasn't been right from the start. I am owed in excess of £1500 but it still isn't sorted and as I'm away for a month on duty with no JPA access, I expect more hassle when I return. What way is this to treat your employees? I've got enough to worry about as it is!!:*

Comp Charlie

31st Aug 2006, 12:08

PompeySailor

31st Aug 2006, 12:13

I deployed out to Cyprus last month to help in the Beirut Airlift. Was out there for 10 days.

Despite 'arriving' back with HR, myself and the boys I went with are still showing as being out in Akt and are subsequently being paid LSA etc.

Not bad for me as I am a good wedge of LSA. I feel this offsets what JPA owes me for other tasks that remain unpaid.

If they think for a second they are going to recover this overpayment before I'm paid correctly what I'm owed they have another think coming.

What goes around, comes around...

CC

Unfortunately, they will whip it out of your pay in one easy movement, leaving you flapping like a gasping cod in disbelief. You will then have to go to your HR department, plead financial hardship, get told that you knew that you weren't entitled to it, be told that there is no such thing as "in good faith" as a defence for receiving monies, and join the queue on the JPAC phone line!

snapper41

31st Aug 2006, 14:28

Can anyone explain NPD to me??

Comp Charlie

31st Aug 2006, 15:34

Unfortunately, they will whip it out of your pay in one easy movement, leaving you flapping like a gasping cod in disbelief. You will then have to go to your HR department, plead financial hardship, get told that you knew that you weren't entitled to it, be told that there is no such thing as "in good faith" as a defence for receiving monies, and join the queue on the JPAC phone line!

Whatever happened to '4 Days Gross Pay' as per QR's for recovery of monies?

Has JPA worked out yet how to recovery direct from bank accounts? Doubt it. They will be relying on me to go cash in hand to the Cashier.

Go swing.

CC

WPH

31st Aug 2006, 15:37

Can anyone explain NPD to me??

Yes, it means Not Positively Determined. In other words, nobody knows why the amount appears on your payslip whether it should be a credit or debit and who in the RAF is worthy of it!

Perhaps somebody else has a more sensible answer?

Where R We?

31st Aug 2006, 22:42

Whatever happened to '4 Days Gross Pay' as per QR's for recovery of monies?

Has JPA worked out yet how to recovery direct from bank accounts? Doubt it. They will be relying on me to go cash in hand to the Cashier.

Go swing.

CC
I think if you look back on this thread, that when JPA came in, they could take half what was owed each month...not good. Worth checking up as I also believe that they take it as a deduction from your pay cheque!!

ExJAFAD

1st Sep 2006, 06:50

PompeySailor

1st Sep 2006, 07:06

It is correct that JPAC will take 50% back off you as an automatic deduction. However informed by Chief HR yesterday that in the JSP covering JPA it does still state that they can only take 4 days pay max and they cannot do the 50% thing. Surprise, Surprise did not know how to stop it though.

You have to fanny around converting the debt into a JPA-recognised debt so that they can give you the money they have taken in one go, then take it off over a set period of time. We used to call them "RBI - Recovery By Instalments", but the cash could be BACS-transferred from the Unit to your account, or in extreme cases, handed out in used tenners.

What gives you the impression that it's YOUR money?!

vecvechookattack

1st Sep 2006, 16:14

Only 6 weeks to go until the RN go live and were all ready to go. Software is in....PC's are ready and were all fully briefed.

Can't wait.

Vim_Fuego

1st Sep 2006, 16:18

Only 6 weeks to go until the RN go live and were all ready to go. Software is in....PC's are ready and were all fully briefed.

Can't wait.

As an addition to your list of pre-JPA activities you may want to add 'Buffer of cash to cover my outgoings when my pay is wrong'.

No really...

Good luck....Vim

airborne_artist

1st Sep 2006, 16:25

we're all fully briefed. Can't wait.

Hope you've all got an extra month's pay stashed, and have arranged an extra facility on the overdraft.

How will Jack access his JPA account when he's on the briny?

PompeySailor

1st Sep 2006, 16:41

As an addition to your list of pre-JPA activities you may want to add 'Buffer of cash to cover my outgoings when my pay is wrong'.

No really...

Good luck....Vim

I have the home addresses of 1SL, 2SL and sundry 2*s and upwards. I also have their bank details. Should it all go wrong, I will be sending them phishing emails on DII. Or I may just seize assets to the value of my normal wages - is that legal?

Then again, JPA is no discriminator of rank or rate, so it may be me donating money to them.

blueboytaz

1st Sep 2006, 20:18

Was pointed to the website by a friend...most informative, anyway, I am located in a sleepy hollow in darkest europe, so we are very cut off from the normal world.

From what I can gather there is only a handful, single figure number of people with no pay problems on camp. Everyone else has ongoing pay problems, all extending back to initial role out or before!!

No two pay runs have the same problems, paying for living in the block when I'm in a hiring, not paying for hiring, not paying for fuel & light, being given LSA but not having been away, still getting LSA but having been back for several months, getting the wrong LOA or no LOA, having all the LOA paid despite it being not enough taken back. Then to cap it all having over £1300 stopped out of pay. To say I was surprised is an error in print.

Am told this is not a HR problem, JPAC tell me it is a HR problem, then its a scripting error, and anyway its been going on for that long now they have to hand it over to another department, I didn't know there was another department for me to shout at. Failure to be called back, unhelpful, obstructive...I could go on but it seems I am not alone, as the past pages have displayed to me. These pages have further opened a rising distrust in anything coming from JPA.

As a lowly cable maker, 'guin...whatever I can ill afford to be out of pocket to these amounts. Now I have no arguments in paying for what I use, but I at least expect the same from my employers.....

It's comforting to know that I now can vent, in bad verse, but at least get it off my keyboard

vecvechookattack

2nd Sep 2006, 08:35

Hope you've all got an extra month's pay stashed, and have arranged an extra facility on the overdraft.

How will Jack access his JPA account when he's on the briny?with a computer

whats an overdraft?

Ali Barber

2nd Sep 2006, 08:54

So, will the RN be changing shift patterns at sea to allow Jack to sit at his computer all day trying to get access to JPA?

An overdraft is what you (possibly) and Jack (definately) will be needing once they've experienced tthe resounding success that is JPA!

SirToppamHat

2nd Sep 2006, 09:20

I am led to believe that my CEA will be paid on Monday. However, I've already had to talk to the Bursar to explain that my fees (and probably a few others) may well be with him late. He and his staff are a pretty reasonable bunch, but what hacks me off is the embarassment of having to go and plead the case or explain that I work for an employer whose admin system is so hopeless.

At least I can log-on to a PC and check the my pay is in, and I even have access to JPA at work. I really feel for our colleagues in the Royal Navy - I know how limited bandwidth can be at sea, and don't suppose for one minute they would have access to the number of PCs many of us enjoy on the UK RAF MOBs.

One thing that does seem to be in my favour with the way the Army manage CEA is in their interpretation of entitlement for children in 'middle' schools. The RAF's view was that my 12-year-old would not qualify for the senior rate until he went to a 'senior' school. This will not happen until he is in his 14th year, despite the fact that his existing school fees are well in excess of the senior CEA rate. I always felt this was rather illogical - in effect the 2 schools mine attend are part of the same school on split sites. The sheet I have seen for my CEA to be paid (locally rather than through JPA) directs that I get the full amount for both the boys of senior age. If this is extrapolated backwards, I reckon I am owed about £12K!

STH

airborne_artist

2nd Sep 2006, 09:26

vecvechookattack

It's one thing to be accessing JPA on a secure private network, quite another to be accessing it via a link that includes one or more hops on a public network, such as a satellite link. The standard of security that is required is a significant issue, and given the "issues" on the network when it was being accessed within the MoD's resources, God help us when it some poor sailor/soldier is trying to sort out his pay from 10,000 miles away.

Bear in mind that it's not long ago that guys were getting their CC details hacked after using them on the terminals provided sandy-side.

donald stott

2nd Sep 2006, 11:02

I too have not been paid properly since the introduction of JPA; however, my issues are insignificant when compared to the examples given on this thread. It is a shame that the 'powers that be' are going to allow the Navy to join an administrative system that appears to be incapable of delivering even the basic administrative essentials such as pay. Furthermore, I believe that the JPA call centre are going to prevent RAF personnel contacting them when the Navy are migrated on to JPA in Oct 06. Perhaps those responsible for the introduction of JPA would consider the following:

1. Do not migrate any of our sister services on to JPA until all RAF pay and allowance issues have been identified and successfully remedied. Remember we have had JPA approx 4 months and it doesn't appear to be working - haven't seen any cdrs' briefing telling us otherwise and, more importantly, it doesn't have our confidence.

2. Give our PSF staff the option to deal direct with JPA as opposed to raising 'I queries' that often end with: this is a HR issue that should be dealt with at unit level. At the moment the efforts of the complainants and PSF appear to be wasted as there is no effective interface between the parties concerned.

3. Change the policy for JPA staff so that they do not become obsessed with statistical returns relating to the number of I Queries they answer. Personal experience has taught me that JPA staff will try to close I Queries despite the fact the problem/s still exist.

4. Be extremely wary of the impact that JPA (especially pay issues) may have on our personnel. I know I am considering my options as I approach an exit point shortly.

;.)