RAF JPA Rollout [Archive] - Page 2

Safety_Helmut

25th Apr 2006, 18:22

Although elements of the JPA rollout have not gone as smoothly as plannedwell f*cking spotted !
I am aware that a number of people have concerns about pay and pay related issues understatement ?
For the time being access will be limited to HR professionals who will be asked to log on as self-service users at different times to enable system performance data to be gleaned. This, in turn, will assist the diagnostic and resolution process. In the meantime, self-service users will not have access to the system. Bl00dy hell, some testing going on ?
business continuity are we reduced to this now, business continuity ?

Tossers, this is now beyond a joke, whoever is repsonsible should be sacked, no payoff, no pension, just collect a hand written P45 and sod off !

S_H

Autorev

25th Apr 2006, 18:31

stupid boy, Stupid Boy!
At least I can sleep soundly tonight in the knowledge that heads will roll over this shambolic chapter, and that lessons will be learnt to ensure that it will never happen again
How out of touch are you? We stopped all that "lessons learnt" nonsense ages ago! They are now "lessons identified" as we no longer are required to learn from our mistakes, just admit that we make them.
This would all be hysterical...if it weren't for the fact it is our hard earned cash they a fekin with!:mad: :mad: :mad:

L J R

25th Apr 2006, 18:38

and the HR professionals would beeeeeee??????

SARREMF

25th Apr 2006, 18:48

And the best bit .................................... You can't even PVR because to do that you have to have access to the system. Brilliant, retention solved in one computer purchase!

I too am one of the 1100 who will not get their full pay this month. I don't intend to take it lying down either. Nor does Mrs REMF! She is not best pleased at all!

Name another company that introduces a computer system without first a. checking it works and b. having both systems work in parallel [never could spell that word!]

L J R

25th Apr 2006, 18:53

SAREMF, Just walk! - Do it now!, it will take JPA 80+ years to find you - and attedmpt to re-calim your pay (Full pay - Flying pay = fair pension for rest of life). By then, even Mrs REMF will be too old to care!

gezzag

25th Apr 2006, 18:53

I've been checking out forums relating to JPA and agree with most that has been said. However, there is no point in moaning about the Enquiry service and the agents as they are in the same boat as everyone else. They have had very little training on JPA but are expected just to be able to answer all that is asked while still dealing with army, navy, pensions, IT and every other enquiry thrown at them with about 30-40 thousand calls a month. While JPA is one very slow and unstable application the EC Agents are still dealing with numerous other Legacy systems and the different languages that go with each. Most of the callers are patient and understand that the agents are fighting the same battle on the same side I believe there have been others who have been down right abusive. No one should be expected to accept that treatment.
So as I said maybe instead of moaning at them try working with them and maybe we will all get through this fiasco a little less stressfully cause no matter what anyone does JPA is here to stay. So some patience and tolerance on both sides would go a long way. Every one is having to learn as we go along but remember as everyone is learning JPA the enquiry service is having to continue with the service to everyone else as well. So sit back and enjoy the journey cause as the system stands now we will be doing lots of sitting back and watching the blue bar.

L J R

25th Apr 2006, 18:56

I take it Gezzag that you are on the Help Line Staff??

Safety_Helmut

25th Apr 2006, 19:04

gezzag is right, the adminners are trying their level best, they like us, have been royally shafted. Personnally I think the term "HR Professional" is stretching things, always preferred shiny/scribbly etc myself.

S_H

SAR Bloke

25th Apr 2006, 19:05

Name another company that introduces a computer system without first a. checking it works and b. having both systems work in parallel [never could spell that word!]

Name another company that would check that the new system works. Find out that it doesn't and still switch off the old system and blunder into the unknown with a pile of crud.

Gezzag,

I am obviously not as patient as you (are you owed lots of money too?).

While I agree with your sentiment and understand that the enquiry staff are only employees doing their best I think that the service is rubbish. The staff are not trained correctly, they cannot access the system and they are overloaded. We have been asked to forward enquiries to unit HR staff as the central service is in tatters. I'm not sure how many PSF staff are left on the unit to help with this.

I have no bones with the guys and girls on the end of the phone but am disgusted at the people that have put them in that situation.

gezzag

25th Apr 2006, 19:11

LJR
I may know someone who is in the enquiry Centre who feels like a duck in a shooting gallery.

gezzag

25th Apr 2006, 19:16

SAR Bloke
I totally agree with you. The service can only be as good as the tools given to supply it. That includes the level of training given to the agents which was given a couple months before Rollout and not much opportunity to keep up to speed with Rollout as the volume of calls did not give them much of a chance to do some practice or learning.

JessTheDog

25th Apr 2006, 19:17

Never...was so much owed to so many by so few ;)

LunchMonitor

25th Apr 2006, 19:33

So the money they thought they would save on buying a cheap, obsolete and unsupported version of Oracle is now probably going to cost a shed load more with all the soft and hardware "fixes", than if they were to have coughed up for a decent system in the first place. Bravo!
Buy cheap, get cr@p.

I hear BOCS is oracle based too......cant wait!

BlahBlah25

25th Apr 2006, 20:26

I am HR Admin (or Pers Admin as i still like to call myself!!) and when i left work (at 1930 i may add after trying to get some 'quality' time when JPA is speedy) the rumour was flying pay may be coming in a mid monthly in May, however, I am not confident this will happen as JPA was supposed to decrease my workload not increase it tenfold!!!! Loads of my guys have not been paid flying pay and i am sending e-mails (i-support function within JPA) to JPAC for every single one!!!!

High_Expect

25th Apr 2006, 20:34

mate, for some of us who are without a certain element of our pay 1930 would just be halfway through a working day.
Despite our thanks for your extended day in work I find it hard to believe everyone "in the loop" is putting in what some would consider to be a normal "working" day ie. 12hrs+

There is a valid reason for flying pay that a lot of people forget. And we don't like it when it gets overlooked :mad:

Hoots

25th Apr 2006, 20:48

This may be worth a look, is the AFPAA corporate plan for 2005/6 & 2009/10. Mentions the Top 2 risks and Mitigating Actions. Also shows the people responsible for JPA.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/6C894627-1677-4334-993E-17FA200C2A56/0/AFPAA_Corporate_Plan_2005.pdf

Risk
Inability to retain the right skills and
numbers of personnel to ensure that the
JPA programme and Agency
Transformation succeeds.

The Agency's key outputs are the
implementation of JPA and current
services and there is a risk that pressures
on one will cause the other to fail.

Mitigation Activities include:

�� Training and development, and recruitment and
retention strategies.
�� Detailed manpower plans.
�� A joint Human Resource Strategy and Plan ·
�� Development of 'The AFPAA Way'
�� A freeze on all but unavoidable change to create
stability.
�� Regular monitoring of resource requirements across
the Agency.
�� Changes to the Agency's structure to reflect the
implementation of JPA.
�� Prioritisation of resources to respond to emerging
difficulties

Better shown on the link.

I would be interested to know if the Director JPA and JPA programme director are still in thier jobs, or been promoted for a successful implemenmtation of JPA from 20 Mar to 1 Apr, before it was properly live, although died pretty quickly. So at least the names of the Directors are now known. It appears that if the 2 main risks were known and nothing was done to properly resolve the issues and test the system before going live, then these individuals and the Chief Executive of AFPAA should be sorted out. If however, these individuals were pressurised to bring the system into service by those above then they should be named and shamed. Did the directors know of the problems and warn the higher authorities of the risks, so many questions to be asked. At least the directors should be up front and explain themselves and the processes and the politics involved in this fiasco.

Quote from the plan "A programme of testing will take place including a Pilot exercise before JPA IT
systems are allowed to "go live"."Unquote

I have been reading most of this document now and I really can't believe how much complete and utter Bulls**t is in this. Am getting so cheesed off with it now so am going to stop now before I explode and smash my computer.

DCDS(Pers) and AFPAA totally irresponsible!!!

High_Expect

25th Apr 2006, 21:00

STAFF in JPMT

Military - 300
Civilian - 300
EDS - 1400

And a budget of 114.5Million for this year......

Result ..... JPA (admitedly some other stuff)

NICE ONE! :ok:

IF I were even 1/10th as incompetent at my job I’d be dead by now! :mad:

Roland Pulfrew

25th Apr 2006, 21:38

Rumour has it that DCDS (Pers) has invited all those involved in the "successful roll out of JPA" to join him in celebratory drinks in the King Henry Wine Cellars. Perhaps we should all have a duty visit to London to join him?!?! Oh no, we wouldn't be able to claim travel and allowances now would we.

Anybody got any more info on the rumour that self service users might be locked out for the next 4 weeks??

On_The_Top_Bunk

25th Apr 2006, 21:51

Rumour has it that DCDS (Pers) has invited all those involved in the "successful roll out of JPA" to join him in celebratory drinks in the King Henry Wine Cellars.

Might be an opportune time to invite the press for some excellent interview oportunities for this excellent system. :mad:

Actually I hope that your quote is a complete pi$$ take. If someone had the nerve to celebrate this, they should have a serious word with their conscience.

D-IFF_ident

26th Apr 2006, 05:35

From a mate's inbox today:

>Sir, Ma'am All
>
>Due to the ongoing problems with JPA we are currently conducting a 100%
>check of LOA. It appears that approximately 40% of individuals LOA rates
>are incorrect, which we are correcting as we go along. It would be
>appreciated if individuals could be asked to check their pay on Friday
>and if they believe that they have not received the correct amount,
>could you please forward the indivdiual's name and service number and we
>will double check that we have amended any mistakes. Any corrections we
>have made have been backdated to the 01 April 06 so hopefully, although
>not guaranteed, all money should be paid and up to date by the May's
>pay.

Unfortunately he can't check his pay; he has no payslip or JPA connectivity.

Mead Pusher

26th Apr 2006, 07:49

I can't believe the message from the JPA page yesterday - we might not get access as self-service users until 12 May 06 !!!!

I walked into an office in the afternoon and the Cpl there said "I want to kill the people responsible for JPA. I want to cause them physical harm. I want to strangle them in their sleep. I want to rip out their spleens and eat their livers."

I think that sums up the general feeling on the 'shop floor'. He was facing a move without being able to get disturbance allowance - not a happy bunny!

Where R We?

26th Apr 2006, 08:34

From a mate's inbox today:
>Sir, Ma'am All
>
>Due to the ongoing problems with JPA we are currently conducting a 100%
>check of LOA. It appears that approximately 40% of individuals LOA rates
>are incorrect, which we are correcting as we go along. It would be
>appreciated if individuals could be asked to check their pay on Friday
>and if they believe that they have not received the correct amount,
>could you please forward the indivdiual's name and service number and we
>will double check that we have amended any mistakes. Any corrections we
>have made have been backdated to the 01 April 06 so hopefully, although
>not guaranteed, all money should be paid and up to date by the May's
>pay.
Unfortunately he can't check his pay; he has no payslip or JPA connectivity.

Hard copy pay statements have been printed out and are due on units today (Boscombe is anyway). Not that that helps those who are OOA with the payslips are being delivered to work addresses. Maybe the squadron adjs can help out here, but then do you want you wife/husband opening your payslip ;)

WhoAreYa

26th Apr 2006, 09:11

Apparently there is light at the end of the tunnel guys and gals.

From a reliable source :

As JPA has proved to be so successful (haha) a new contract with SAMA is being drawn up as we speak.
Son of SAMA lives, long live the SAMA.

BTW, apparently 1,100 aircrew will not be recieving their flying pay this month.

Where R We?

26th Apr 2006, 10:01

I managed to get a copy printed before the system crashed and mine balances.

Total pay divided by 12 months equaled my monthly gross pay.
Flying pay was daily rate multiplied by the number of days in the month.
Home to Duty had HTD issued in the pay column, and HTD Pers Contribution the debits column.

Not sure about the other questions though...

Smudger552

26th Apr 2006, 10:09

Notwithstanding the message saying we couldn't log in until 12 May I was able to log in and do a whole host of stuff yeaterday afternoon. Probably cos no one else was using it! Someone else in the office was also using but had a problem, so he rang the helpdesk....got the third degree as to how he was using the system when it wasn't going to be available until 12 May! :) They aren't even talking to each other up at the JPA silo of independence:ugh: Ho Hum

Smudge

sooms

26th Apr 2006, 11:07

Would a civvy company get away with treating its workforce like this?

I am currently OOA, I have no way of checking any of my details on JPA- Like most of the RAF it seems. I have seen nothing..repeat...nothing official about the problems and projected solutions from PMA or whatever it's called now.
I don't know if I'm getting paid or if I am, how much? Is my LOA is going in, are my NOK details correct? Am I actually deployed? Am I going to have trouble getting my PODL or if my pay has been screwed up will I be able to claim it back?

Nobody at my location can answer these questions...are we getting any word from above?- ZIP.

Have the uk press got hold of this yet?

L J R

26th Apr 2006, 11:09

It won't get into the news until JPA sleeps with his secretary.

Roland Pulfrew

26th Apr 2006, 11:53

Have the uk press got hold of this yet?

Sooms

Surprisingly it would appear not!! One would have thought that the opposition, of whatever colour, and the Press would have leapt on the opportunity of "Another Government IT Failure" story! Perhaps it is because (in the main) it is the Hofficers who haven't been paid properly not (cue Sun Headline) "Our Gallant Troops Not Paid." The Sun learned today that hundreds of our gallant boys have not been paid in another Government IT cock-up. Etc etc etc.

Smudger552

26th Apr 2006, 12:10

Mike, what a helpful chap you are!!:E

C U on the 7th

Smudge

foldingwings

26th Apr 2006, 13:52

vascodegama

26th Apr 2006, 14:07

For those looking for their flying pay a PA colleague of mine has it. He has been paid Flying pay as well as his PA rate ie an over payment of c£1300.

I cant get into JPA so I dont know if I have been so lucky!

Toddington Ted

26th Apr 2006, 15:22

It's just arrived at my desk (new JPA rules)! My payslip for April and it includes flying pay (I'm on a ground tour) and HTD! AND the pay total looks about right.
Now, when will it reach my bank account??
Will it reach my bank account??
When will the bu66ers pay the travel claim submitted one week ago??
Will the bu66ers pay my travel claim??
When can I update my profile??
So much doubt it's too distressing!:sad:
FW
Snap! So have I (except that, as a blunty I don't get flying pay - unless you count flying into a rage with JPA!) and I too am waiting for my travel claim, more importantly, my junior staff are still waiting for theirs too - did manage to resubmit claims yesterday pm when for some strange reason we were able to access JPA (probably shouldn't admit to that given earlier posts) and this time someone might actually authorise them. The sad thing is that I count myself as lucky having access to a PC in an office environment in the UK, no wonder the folks at the sharp end are fed up.

Hugh S

26th Apr 2006, 18:16

Harry the Staysh at ISK announced this afternoon that JPA has been switched off until further notice! Alternative arrangements are being sought as an interim measure. Fantastic - smart procurement at it's best.

bowly

26th Apr 2006, 18:33

In my many years, I have never witnessed SUCH ineptitude on SUCH a grand scale. It is, quite simply, a farce beyond all comprehension. Words fail me...........

Jobza Guddun

26th Apr 2006, 18:35

Word has it that on one of the squadrons at a large, overcrowded superbase in eastern England which is currently suffering from massive upheaval, NONE of the aircrew have been paid their Flying Pay.
To the person who signed off on JPA? I hope you have skin like a rhino because you're going to need it wherever you go next. Publicly quit, and take the clowns who "advised" you with you. You are beneath contempt for allowing all the eggs to be placed in one basket without seemingly testing the thing properly, and for the anxiety you are causing our colleagues who are OOA and can't get any information whatsoever - plenty of our people have enough to worry about as it is. Or please tell us whose fault it REALLY is?
:yuk: :yuk:
Rant reduced to more manageable settings
Jobza

Indicating Full

26th Apr 2006, 18:48

Oh Dear - just got my first purple pay statement.

I have 2 lots of flying pay my own and another annotated RN OBS and he gets about 10% more than me.

Another line HTD (Home to Duty I presume) was for £120 but I normally get £12.

I think I'll save the extra as I can see a large bill coming if someone ever sorts this out!

snakepit

26th Apr 2006, 18:58

I as one of the unfortunate 1100, am most definately not in a ground tour. In fact I am currently nearing 75% of the way through my 24 hour duty period and am seriously thinking of f:mad: ing of home. I am sure no one will mind as they will be fully aware from the AMP brief that normal service may resume sometime soon.

Its highly amusing to see that to solve the logging on problems alternative ways are being sought to allow us to apply for claims (1771?), apply for leave (F295D?), and other such back-peddling leaps forward.

SubdiFuge

26th Apr 2006, 18:59

Link to the AFPAA vision or some other bo11ox (see page 15/16).
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/Reports/OtherPublications/AFPAA/AfpaaCorporatePlan20052010.htm
Director JPA - Air Cdre David Tonks
Dep Director JPA - Dr Paul Collins
JPA Programme Director - Mr Paul Davis
They should be easy enough to find on the works email. Bunch of frigging wasters.

Grimweasel

26th Apr 2006, 19:04

Remaining Flying pay that was missed due to a sequencing error has gone to Payroll already. (900 odd)
It will be with you in the bank by Friday and at the very latest (due to Bank Holiday) Tuesday. This is the JPAC EC line and has been verified. (Front and rear end crews)

Self Service user degradation to performance is still being looked into by EDS and Oracle. The system was designed for 6000 users at a time (not sure where the figures came from) so at the moment, with RAF roll out, it's a little maxed out.

There are issues with MU food charges, as they have not been deducted this month. A double payment is likely next month.

Personal idiosyncrasies still exist with certain elements of pay, as they did under legacy systems.
All posted on the AFPAA bulletin board under SDST.

JPA has not been switched off at all. Although SS users have been denied access while they sort the problems, there are many people still working all hours to sort pay, leave etc. The HR staffs needs to gain exclusive access to enable them to achieve steady state with all information uploaded to the system.

Paper forms do still exist, under Documentation/JPA Forms on the AFPAA website

One can understand everyone’s frustration and I am not defending the system, only trying to lay a few minds to rest regarding certain rumours.
Hope this goes a little way to helping y’all? :ok:

Mmmmnice

26th Apr 2006, 19:49

I get a bit suspicious when OC PMS sends me an email assuring me that I will be paid this month - as if it is some kind of new/special arrangement that I ought to be grateful for!!
Guess that's me working for free then - whenever a penpusher assures me I'm about to get something, it usually means the opposite. Oh well best not to go off and shoot the messenger - tempting though?

Hoots

26th Apr 2006, 20:53

I have been told by a sound source that the forces self confessed favourite newspaper has been directed to this thread.

ethereal entity

26th Apr 2006, 21:23

After over 25 phone calls to PSF and 3 visits, I still do not have a Log-on, so I am going on leave with no approval an no Leave Pass.

So are 9 others in my section.

PS> Seriously..which utter imbecile agreed to this thing?

stuckinLatinAmerica

26th Apr 2006, 21:28

I have been told by a sound source that the forces self confessed favourite newspaper has been directed to this thread.

But I thought the RAF News had already claimed the launch of JPA to be a great success!

Joe Black

26th Apr 2006, 21:31

:rolleyes: Absolute farce, I still cannot believe the joke that is now the RAF. Apparently there was going to be a JPA tannoy broadcast on all stations......all I was feckin told was that we can't access the bloody thing until mid MAY!

Hoots

26th Apr 2006, 22:03

I hope this new IT procurement works.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/NewComputerSystemMarksARevolutionInMilitaryMedicalRecords.ht m

Otherwise it will be more than our pay etc getting messed up.

If it does work maybe should give them the contract for JPA, I wonder what penalty clauses are in the EDS contract.

Joe Black

26th Apr 2006, 22:14

Record/Sun should be an enjoyable read in the morning!

BluntyBum

26th Apr 2006, 22:16

According to the unhelpful desk JPA doesn't like my service number and accordingly I don't exist...

Maybe I shouldn't bother going to work if this is the case!:uhoh:

South Bound

27th Apr 2006, 07:10

Got mine this morning, definitely produced under the old system and delivered home. At least FY 05/06 should balance....

Safety_Helmut

27th Apr 2006, 08:06

"Barely half of all large organisations have mastered delivering software projects on time and on budget according to the latest Information Age research" - Information Age Apr 2006.
I wonder how the introduction of JPA would rate ?

S_H

gonaenodaethat

27th Apr 2006, 08:24

At a large station in the North of Scotland, we have been denied access to JPA at all until further notice.

Access is only available to "Professional Users" if there are indeed such creatures!

Latest estimates are that normal (?) service will resume towards the end of May!!!!!!

At least I have a login and password to use when I can finally get access...................if they haven't changed it!!!

Anyone know how to reboot SAMA?

peppermint_jam

27th Apr 2006, 09:08

I have been told by a sound source that the forces self confessed favourite newspaper has been directed to this thread.

Could make good reading!! Anyone interested in a competition to guess what the pun will be?? So many ideas.........

I work at the superbase in the fens where flying pay has not been issued, I was rather puzzled as to why there was Aircrew in the feeder this week! Glad this matter has been cleared up!!

gristleboy

27th Apr 2006, 09:58

Just been told by my HR dept/PD Pt not to expect my Get You Home allowance. I need to look at my pay statement, obviously not online but the hardcopy that will be sent somewhere. Only then can I tell the PD Pt that it has not been paid. Hang on, if they know that it won't be paid, do something now. Tally of money owed now £1200 travel claim, £250 GYH. Oh yes as I am MU that bit has been mucked up as well.:hmm:

Biggus

27th Apr 2006, 10:07

".....The claims, advances and leave etc can still be submitted via the manual forms on the AFPAA website, under Documentation / JPA Forms. Fill these in and give to your HR staff and it will be entered on the system either by them or the JPAC EC....."

Can anyone provide a link to the relevant portion of the AFPAA website (JPA Forms) that can be accessed by the internet - or do I need a military system. I have tried looking myself, but with no success - no doubt I am being "Mr Thicky" again!

Thanks!

Bluntend

27th Apr 2006, 10:14

Try this...
http://www.raf.mod.uk/jpa/index.html

Biggus

27th Apr 2006, 10:24

Bluntend

Looks good, will examine further in slow time. Many thanks for your help, much appreciated!!!

Bluntend

27th Apr 2006, 10:48

Be warned. Not all the forms work in electronic format. You may well need to print them off, fill them in by hand and then walk them down to PSF, sorry, your HR department for actioning. JPA, don't you just love it...:hmm:

ITGeek

27th Apr 2006, 12:29

BluntyBum: Of course the JPAC didn't recognise your Service Number. You have to give them your National Insurance Number. Then they can find you. Doh !!! :confused:

WhoAreYa

27th Apr 2006, 13:24

Well some of the guys and gals have received their pay statements, including one lucky individual who has been paid the grand sum of £0.00.

Words fail me, unbelievable.

Mr B

27th Apr 2006, 15:09

Any first thoughts? Good or Bad? How will the other services find it? JPA SAY`S NO !!

Mr B

27th Apr 2006, 15:10

JPA SAY`S NO

MostlyHarmless

27th Apr 2006, 15:16

JPA, JPA. So bad it said it twice.

airborne_artist

27th Apr 2006, 15:34

one lucky individual who has been paid the grand sum of £0.00

Perhaps JPA spotted he'd spent his entire working month trying to log onto to JPA. He therefore would have done no work. No work = no pay :E :E

WhoAreYa

27th Apr 2006, 15:59

Perhaps JPA spotted he'd spent his entire working month trying to log onto to JPA. He therefore would have done no work. No work = no pay :E :E

lol, just about sums it up.

Wyler

27th Apr 2006, 16:09

Just had my payslip. I am only paying rent on my garage. No Council Tax, no MQ rent and no deductiuons for my commutation (I am FTRS). Loads of dosh but how long is this going to take to sort out? I will squirrel it away into a high interest account because I have a feeling it will be like this for some time to come.:rolleyes:

Still, at least the error is in my favour.

Also, as I am officially living in a garage, I may well apply for some benefits.:E

D-IFF_ident

27th Apr 2006, 16:27

So I started looking into the Employment Rights Act 1996. Rumour has it that, should you want your wages this month and don't receive all of them, you may need to prove financial hardship, else you'll get what's owed next month.

Of course, not all of the act applies to the Armed Forces. In particular, Section II - which deals with deductions from wages, does not apply. However, Section I does, and that includes the right to an itemised pay statement before or when wages are received. I've still not got one - and my pay is off by about £600. Anyone got a link to the full text of the AFA 1955?

:mad:

airborne_artist

27th Apr 2006, 16:28

Also, as I am officially living in a garage, I may well apply for some benefits.

You'll get a visit from an officious council employee asking if you've got planning permission for the change of use of the garage. They'll evict you if you havn't got it :E

pikeyeng

27th Apr 2006, 16:36

Can not wait to read The Sun tommorrow when no one gets flying pay as is the case with a large majority of BZN. Also would love to be a fly on the wall at PSF sorry HR dept when pay issues finally push those on the edge of going to actually hand in there PVR. Computer says no......pay!!:ugh:

Mr. Dodd

27th Apr 2006, 16:55

Heads up, you can stick you claims, sorry expenses into JPA until 1900 tonight... be quick

maniac55

27th Apr 2006, 17:07

Good, bad or indifferent but at least some bods know what their going to get & the breakdown.

In deepest darkest Lincs pay chits have yet to be seen, bl@@dy brilliant.:{

Still could be worse, I might not get paid at all.:ugh:

Nignog

27th Apr 2006, 17:28

I got all excited today when a old style payslip turned up at home in the post. Turned out to be my P60!!! :{

peppermint_jam

27th Apr 2006, 17:49

I fell for that "hoax" yesterday too. Mug that I am!

Time Flies

27th Apr 2006, 18:48

I've only read the first and last page of this thread so apologize for any repitition.

How many guys have not received flying pay on their new JPA processed pay statements?

Me....1....

:(

FJJP

27th Apr 2006, 19:27

I hope that someone has sent an e-mail to the Air Cdr and his minions giving them a link to this thread. He may then get a shock about what's happening at grass roots level and the strength of feeling. Another national IT debacle...

Maybe the editors of the national dailies could get an 'inadvertant' opps! sorry, mis-directed e-mail with the link to this...

Maybe. Perish the thought that anyone in the highly valued Armed Forces would do such a thing deliberately.

Ooooh! Look! Flying pink pigs!

AdanaKebab

27th Apr 2006, 20:50

There appears to be a lot of maoning about pay on this thread. As a proper Royal Air Farce Officer you should all have a private income, large country estates and several polo horses.
I thought pay was for rankers. :hmm:

plans123

27th Apr 2006, 20:57

And don't forget, everyone should have at least one months worth of pay in the bank at all times......:rolleyes:

16 blades

27th Apr 2006, 21:04

I think you're confusing us with the Ruperts, Adana 'bab.

The problem with JPA is not the software, or the servers. I'm led to believe, by somebody who knows about these sorts of things, that the network itself simply doesn't have the bandwidth to support it, and never will without a MAJOR upgrade (somebody in the office yesterday gave a very convincing, albeit highly technical explanation that went right over my head!) Therefore, it seems likely that it'll NEVER work - just like ALFENS....

What we'll end up with is a system with a small group of protected users able to access it, and us requiring to go through them to get our 'self service' admin done. Who knows, maybe we could form a dedicated Flight and give them a dedicated office in handbrake house...now, what could we call them?

They deal with Personnel, and provide Services........

16B

Hydraulic Palm Tree

27th Apr 2006, 21:06

And don't forget, everyone should have at least one months worth of pay in the bank at all times......

I'd love to know where this is alledgedly written down because if I am quoted it tomorrow when I phone to winge to a blunty that I will only be drinking Veuve Clicquot and not Cristal this weekend because I have not got my FP, I will drive around to their office and shove whatever book it is in up their arse!:}

HPT

4Foxtrot

27th Apr 2006, 21:11

We can't all be in the Household Cavalry. My parents aren't cousins for starters.

Scorpy

27th Apr 2006, 23:02

And don't forget, everyone should have at least one months worth of pay in the bank at all times......:rolleyes:

I was always led to believe that you had to be in possesion of enough cash for a haircut at any time. Even in these inflated times, this comes nowhere near a months pay.

Also would love to be a fly on the wall at PSF sorry HR dept when pay issues finally push those on the edge of going to actually hand in there PVR.

Sadly with JPA being down we will not be able to access the 'PVR Now' button!!

Hydraulic Palm Tree

28th Apr 2006, 05:21

Looks like I got my FP as I have a seperate credit in my account for £618.

Shame as I was enjoying the prospect of blunty baiting this morning:}

L J R

28th Apr 2006, 05:56

I thought Kings Regs required officers to always have enough cash to call a carriage.

Specaircrew

28th Apr 2006, 06:18

I'm PA and I've been paid £1000 too much this month so I can only assume (no pay statement) that I've been paid flying pay by mistake! :)

FFP

28th Apr 2006, 06:19

No flying pay. And I should have.

F:mad: :mad: ers !! ;)

Lowkey

28th Apr 2006, 06:39

FP on mine as a separate payment as well. FFP have fun kicking some admin butt. Hope you get it sorted.

maniac55

28th Apr 2006, 07:03

Well some money has turned up in the bank, not sure if its exactly right but its enough to pay the alcohol bill. :E

Thank the lord for internet banking, you know thing; hundreds of thousands of customers, all able to access and interact with their accounts at any time and all nice & secure. I wonder if anyone from JPA world had a look at how the banks manage to do that? :cool:

JPA, nice concept but p1ss poorly introduced.

Mr C Hinecap

28th Apr 2006, 07:24

I thought Kings Regs required officers to always have enough cash to call a carriage.

They probably did have that. However, I don't think the Queen requires us to have that sort of availability.

Interesting mention of lack of bandwidth up there. I'd heard rumours that a certain HQ was going to get streaming live news over the network there. There are obviously no bandwidth problems at all :rolleyes:

peppermint_jam

28th Apr 2006, 07:30

Didn't get a chance to stop at the shop this morning, anyone know if this problem has made the papers yet?

P_J

Fg Off Bloggs

28th Apr 2006, 07:31

Oh Dear - just got my first purple pay statement.
I have 2 lots of flying pay my own and another annotated RN OBS and he gets about 10% more than me.
Another line HTD (Home to Duty I presume) was for £120 but I normally get £12.
I think I'll save the extra as I can see a large bill coming if someone ever sorts this out!

Check your Charges and Deductions column for 'HTD Contrib' indicator! Caught me out as well until I realised.

Sven Sixtoo

28th Apr 2006, 08:52

Guess I've got your flying pay then.

Ah, the joys of being PA.

Sven

moosemaster

28th Apr 2006, 09:00

Somebody must have my flying pay too.

So glad all is well within the force :}

Unmissable

28th Apr 2006, 09:39

Pay is down by an amount that is suspiciously approximate to my flying pay!! Not seen a statement (on-line or paper) so I cannot prove it is flying pay. No supplementary payment like has been promised either. Mind you the last paper 1771 I submitted (on 31 March) appears to have been paid.

4fitter

28th Apr 2006, 10:05

I have been paid - internet bank told me so, however, no pay statement so I can't check if it is the correct amount. Asked my HR Admin lad to view my record for me and guess what ? I don't exist.

How much longer can this fiasco run for :mad:

WhoAreYa

28th Apr 2006, 10:38

According to the bank I have been paid. :}
There are two inputs, i'm guessing basic pay and an additional amount, probably flying pay.

No way of checking if the amounts are correct as no pay statement.

Almost_done

28th Apr 2006, 10:49

Pay went in, woohoo, how much, what for, anyone can guess and it didn't seem right. I'll check my pay statement.........ah..............flipping system!!!!

Tonkenna

28th Apr 2006, 11:28

I am in the same boat... my pay appears to have gone in, but I cannot check my hard copy pat statement as it it several thousand miles away. Now, if it had gone home, Mrs Tonks could have had a look. Whay have we binned sending them to a private address... to get in line with the Army? who haven't even taken JPA on yet!!!! Ridiculous, why do we have to step back in time to the lowest common denomitor.

Still, at least I can still pay the ex-wife, which will keep the solictor away:hmm:

JPA:yuk:

Tonks

Capt Wobbly

28th Apr 2006, 11:32

The pay run overseas has been a complete disaster. I have £500 in my UK account and £4.03 paid into my overseas account. I know I like my job, but this is taking the :mad:

dantura

28th Apr 2006, 11:38

A mate of mine didn't get any pay at all..... HR said it must be the banks fault......Hmmmm??:hmm:

He had to go and get an advance in cash...

...now there's an idea..In stead of all this computer type stuff, how about we all line up in front of the CO, march up, salute and take the wages in cash????

Where's that gems form?

D

SpotterFC

28th Apr 2006, 12:31

Tonkenna

Be careful signing yourself 'Tonks' on this thread.

'Tis an Air Cdre Tonks who is in charge of this rolling goat f**k! Unless it IS you in which case :yuk: :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: :mad: :ugh: :{ :yuk:

BootFlap

28th Apr 2006, 12:43

Basic pay and some of flying pay in, but not all! Still better than not getting it all. Anyone fancy setting up an online sweepstake for when it will get sorted.........:ok:
........ and another sweepstake for whether the 'prat at the back' in charge of this gets promoted / knighted or leaves to join EDS as a consultant!

SidHolding

28th Apr 2006, 14:03

I've been paid just as my pay statement said (saw it online only last monday). Which is on the wrong rate (lower than it should be) and without my flying pay!!! I've been paid enough to cover my mortgage and direct debits, but I may be getting a bit thirsty in a few weeks!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad:

maniac55

28th Apr 2006, 14:08

BootFlap

The clue's in the name, July Probably August.:*

As for the second sweepstake you ought to know better by now.

Nignog

28th Apr 2006, 14:10

Looking at my bank it looks like I have been paid correctly including flying pay and HTD but without a pay slip I cannot confirm. However looking at the problems some of us have had I must be one of the the lucky ones.

airborne_artist

28th Apr 2006, 14:37

However looking at the problems some of us have had I must be one of the the lucky ones.

Wrong NigNog - you are the lucky one. Sounds like you'll be getting them in tonight, and for several months to come.

16 blades

28th Apr 2006, 14:45

I must be incredibly lucky - was able (albeit by the skin of my teeth) to view pay statement online a few days ago (just before whole system went tilt), recieved purple paper pay statement (which makes no sense whatsoever) and pay has gone into bank. What's more, it seems about right - I say 'about' because now that no daily rates or increments are listed, I have no way of checking....convenient that, after April and all when our rates of pay have just changed post pay 'rise'....

16B

ChezTanker

28th Apr 2006, 14:50

God bless JPA :bored: - not only my PAS monies but somebody has slipped in a little extra - I guess it's a tip. Unlike capped actuals it seems to be more than 10%!! The extra goes straight to savings 'cos we know that my pay will be less next month as they adjust their cockups - when I can get on JPA I will inform them. :ok: Still not seen hide nor hair of the hardcopy so that I can see what the extra is all about.

syncro_single

28th Apr 2006, 15:18

After eventually managing to get online today and then finding that the expenses part was down, you can imagine I was a bit hacked off.
Nevermind keep trying.
Spoke to the helpdesk (that must be against the Trades description act) who couldn't help.
Nevermind keep trying!
Tried again and this time all of the reps were busy and I was put on hold. The music played was:
The theme from the big country and the theme from the Sting.
Is that some kind of message as one is a cowboy song (fitting for JPA) and one is from a film about conmen!
Nevermind keep trying.
Managed to get a claim for a 3 day trip submitted after about 30 mins of typing.
Anybody else having the same problems?????????????????

formertonkaplum

28th Apr 2006, 16:01

Does anyone know why Home To Duty (formerly RILOR) is now paid at a lower rate than before.

The only thing I can think of is that they now TAX it?

Anyone know facts ?

Vote JPA..... The answer to nothing !

Hydraulic Palm Tree

28th Apr 2006, 16:55

Ref RPOD, I noticed that the rates had dropped - checked the AP/JSP and it has gone down by 20p per day for my 16 mile trip. I know its not much but its still bloody sneaky - must be another stealth tax I reckon.

HPT

formertonkaplum

28th Apr 2006, 17:44

Ok, I have partially solved the mystery.

They have put me on a rate lower than I should be on when they have changed it over. Or was it deliberate as I won a battle recently with the ones with polished posterior's who do nothing but mess pay / allowances up and are never held to account for it.

A technician making mistakes that often would not be a career man. Why have these people got away with this level of service for so long?

Oh yeah the got away with it because.......
JPA, the best answer to an idiot shiney,.......is worse.

However, the comparative rates for JPA don't compare with the rates of old, to the tune of 14p per day for myself.

Sounds a little, but thats £51.13 in a JPA (365.25 Days) Year.

Just when my pay and RILOR had gone all kind of routine and stable.....

JPA happened.

LunchMonitor

28th Apr 2006, 17:49

We are not alone perhaps HSBC have gone to JPA too.
HSBC Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4955362.stm)

Scud-U-Like

28th Apr 2006, 21:11

And Plymouth City Council:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4955436.stm

kippermate

28th Apr 2006, 21:19

I got paid today - twice. Not sure if its the right amount as there is no pay statement. Never mind, Mrs kipper will get rid of it soon enough!!

kipper:ok:

markerboy

28th Apr 2006, 22:21

Well there are some lucky people who managed to get full disturbance and then under JPA, they now HTD as well!!! Hence why the majority of us are sucking the hind proverbial.

A system designed by blunties, for blunties. How the avergae guy is supposed to find this system better is beyond me.

:mad:

theboywide

29th Apr 2006, 00:28

Isn't it wonderful! Apparently there are only 1100 people who haven't received flying pay today so that's ok :hmm:
I think the blunties have stolen it all!

Fg Off Kite

29th Apr 2006, 06:42

Actually, I know where some of the flying pay has gone...

As PA I haven't received Fg Pay for some years now, that is until yesterday. Splendid wage packet, gross over £6k.

Anybody like to borrow some money?

FOK;)

foldingwings

29th Apr 2006, 07:11

However, the comparative rates for JPA don't compare with the rates of old, to the tune of 14p per day for myself.

Sounds a little, but thats £51.13 in a JPA (365.25 Days) Year.

Anorak going on!

JSP 752 sets out the new rates in its Chapter 6. Basically, if you choose to live in your own house the new rates shaft you. Those who live in quarters (public) contribute a daily rate of £0.31 (1 mile) whereas those who live in private contribute £2.79 daily (9 miles).

Anorak off.

This, for me, equates to a reduction of £240 per annum but I know others who are at least 4 times that poorer! All this when petrol prices are about to pass £1 per litre.

So what's their game? Have they decided to squeeze us all back into quarters at the same time as they have put up the rent? Clever, certainly a money spinner! No, surely not! Having sold off hundreds of quarters over the past 10 years would there be enough anyway? Of course there would be! All those pi$$ed off with the increased rent in the last pay deal will buy houses and move out until they realise that HTD is no compensation any more and then try to move back into quarters. Thereby totally destabilising the lives of the military forever!

Is this a joined up policy? I think not, but it probably serves the bean counters well.

:mad: Prats!:*

FW

c130jbloke

29th Apr 2006, 07:18

As above, loads more flying pay than I ever expected !!!!!

JPA, bring it on !

LFFC

29th Apr 2006, 07:43

Is this a joined up policy? I think not, but it probably serves the bean counters well. I understand that, because of these reductions, several people that have recently been posted to Abbey Wood have now decided to live in the Mess rather than commute. The problem is that Abbey Wood does not have any single accommodation - so they will have to be housed, at great service expense, somewhere in down-town Bristol. Guess that's a savings measure then!!!

BEagle

29th Apr 2006, 07:53

I wonder whether CAS has been paid this month?

Or whichever Chief Bluntie brought this nonsense into being....

LFFC

29th Apr 2006, 08:00

Or whichever Chief Bluntie brought this nonsense into being....

I think he is a RN officer - so he'll be using their existing system. The RN won't move over to JPA for several months - if they ever do!!!

moosemaster

29th Apr 2006, 08:28

After 6 months trying to get my "RPOD" and FP sorted ("Don't worry, you'll get it in next months pay")...
JPA happened,
So now I THINK I've got the correct RPOD, and I KNOW I haven't got the correct FP, but now there aren't any blunties left to shout at :confused: cos we sacked all but the REALLY useless ones. (You know, all the ones who didn't take redundancy because they couldn't find a job anywhere else:bored: )
Trying to get ANYTHING out of the unhelpful desk is like trying to get blood out of a stone so I sit and wait for next month to deliver even more mayhem into my nice predictable, stable Monday to Friday 9-5 existance.
(Doesn't everybody work 9-5 Monday to Friday now that JPA doesn't recognise shift workers?????????;) )

Grimweasel

29th Apr 2006, 09:47

I know that you all know this, but don't forget to Squirrel the overpayments away into a high interest account (First direct Online pays 5%aer I believe), because HMG will be seeking recovery action pretty pronto. (ie next month!)
It looks good to have all that money in your account, I know, its happened to me, but you know they will take it all back!!:{

JessTheDog

29th Apr 2006, 14:41

Does the rule still apply about repayments of overissues (etc) being limited to four days pay per month?

dallas

29th Apr 2006, 15:47

JessTheDog: Does the rule still apply about repayments of overissues (etc) being limited to four days pay per month?

Jess, we're dealing with people who overlooked bank holidays - do you really think they've thought about overissues?

I would imagine the chaos - good and bad - will continue for a couple of months. Once 'unexpected' problems like leave and pay have been dealt with, we can move towards a pre-April level of service towards the end of the year...hopefully this year.

Climebear

29th Apr 2006, 18:51

Does the rule still apply about repayments of overissues (etc) being limited to four days pay per month?

I believe so. That is set in QRs, it is not a system thing. However, it is 4 days gross pay!

moosemaster

29th Apr 2006, 20:14

But JPA can't read QRs.

Even though SAMA could, it still didn't stop the blunties trying to take more. (or is that the other way round?)

I once had a pay packet for £17 because "the computer" took back an overissue. OC PSF asked what my problem was, and told me "it will all be sorted in next months pay run!"

Oh good, that'll make things better then!:mad:

foormort

29th Apr 2006, 21:07

After a few beers I decided to reply to an email about JPA addressed to me as a 'customer'. In my brave state I explained that I was not a customer but a serving military officer. Anyway I have received a very nice letter putting my opinions straight, explaining how JPA is the future and how I am indeed a customer. Call me stupid but I thought customers could shop where they fancied and if the product was faulty they could ask for their monies back?:(

moosemaster

29th Apr 2006, 21:15

I agree, doesn't the Sales of Goods Act say something about "Fit for Purpose"?

Bet we opted out of that though.:mad:

ZH875

30th Apr 2006, 04:22

moosemaster

30th Apr 2006, 12:01

Has anyone tried to fill in the JPA 016 form, using a computer?.
It appears all the fields to be filled in are protected from being filled in, and you need a password to unprotect the form so you can fill it in.
Looks like the only way is to print it and fill in by hand. Whats the betting that JPAC & HR Admin reject forms because they cannot read your handwriting on a form that has been filled in over the last two months.
I Quit.
It's probably a template, so you'll have to make a copy of it somewhere, change the properties from read only, then fill it in.
Only a guess, haven't even tried filling in any JPA forms myself. Who's gonna know, defo not anybody at the unhelpful desk.:p

Spacer

30th Apr 2006, 12:14

Just to add my name to the list, on Fri I got all my basic pay, but no FP. I phoned PSF who weren't interested, and I phoned JPAEC, who told me there were notes on my file that said I hadn't been paid it... but couldn't tell me when I would be or any more details. I phoned them to tell them that :mad:

ZH875

30th Apr 2006, 16:08

It's probably a template, so you'll have to make a copy of it somewhere, change the properties from read only, then fill it in.
Only a guess, haven't even tried filling in any JPA forms myself. Who's gonna know, defo not anybody at the unhelpful desk.:pIt is a word document, not template, but even if you do copy it, the only way to fill it in is to remove the protection,and for that you need the password, and of course :mad: EDS are going to give that out for free aren't they?.

Bah Humbug, Christmas is cancelled until JPA (January,Perhaps April) is sorted.

unclenelli

30th Apr 2006, 16:53

From the jist of most of the posts here, it would seem that most people will be in line for a good Xmas - By then they will have sorted out everyone underpaid and they'll all get a monies due just in time for Xmas (dunno which Xmas, could be 2011 for all I know!!!!)

Not for me though - I went on a 3 day course a couple of days after JPA tried to go live. Allowances (as it was then) told me I could spend £21 per day + £5 incidentals on dinner and tea (lunch & dinner for the Southern Monkeys) and I could claim for mileage as I was going straight home after the course, not back to RAF wherever.

Completed the course and kept all the receipts - Managed to get online and filled in the data - Nearest I could find for daily rates was "NS - CHBS booked accommodation" and filled in my claim. Motor Mileage Allowance (MMA) could not be found, so I clicked the only thing I recognised as mileage Official Duty Rate (ODR) for the outward journey and the hypothetical return journey (122 miles each way although I travelled 122 miles there and 188 miles home - it did allow me to explain the hypo journey)
When I tried to print my copy of the claim, it had inserted it's own default values - daily rates £7.31 and ODR 40p/mile instead of 20.5-ish p/mile
It said the claim had been referred to my "Line Manager" for approval, so I emailed him to tell him not to approve it as it was complete bolleaux, and it would have to wait until my next day shift so I could talk to PSF/HR (doesn't HR seem to infer some "HUMAN" essence although they seem to lack this quality)
OC PSF said my "line manager" was actually the part-time civvy bloke in allowances and he had automatically approved the fraudulent claim.
Now I had my top-cover from OC PSF and the email I sent to my Boss, I was bullet-proof (and about £40 better off), but I had better tell JPAC about it using iSupport - Well I would if I could get online!!!!!

So I'm now awaiting a snotty saying I owe £40 and/or a Barrier Pilot (RAFP) investigation into my fraudulent claim.

Apparantly for the Mileage part I should have clicked on PVR - Why the hell should I click PVR - I don't want to PVR - I just want my mileage paying!!!
But No - PVR is not Premature Voluntary Release any more - it's Private Vehicle Rate (20.5-ish p/mile)

Alfens - never diod the job it was bought for in 1993
RASDA - very user-unfriendly with servers that can't cope with the traffic
JPA - Can't do the job it was bought for (seem to work for small companies (100-ish employees), but not for RAF - 40,000 hits on day1 made the servers suspect a Distributed Denial Of Service (DDOS - see the computer forum for more info) Attack and it shut down!!!
BOCS - again, an off-the-shelf system that the RAF will foook about with and buggger it up!!!! Goes live 01-Aug-06 with all other systems turned off on 31-Jul-06 - I predict dry-wipe boards across the country!!

ScATCC had a computer system (SIRS) that was predicted to die at Y2K - the result was a perfectly functioning replacement system (SIRIUS (which became knows as SIRS))- I should know - I was an end-user involved with the core development of the system. The system was paid for by NATS.

Why do the RAF always go for the lowest cost, sh1tt1est option that never works and ends up costing more than the best option would have in the first place, and insist on fooking around with it so that it works even less than it did off-the-shelf

[Rant Mode Off]:* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :*

SirToppamHat

30th Apr 2006, 17:21

unclenelli

I don't disagree with most of what you say, and I have been very critical of most of the IT systems we use day-to-day, but the main problems with the operation of RASDA were (and still are) to do with the limited bandwidth available on the SLI, and the fact that the users initially wanted too much from it, but were then reluctant to use it because of a lack of direction from above. One thing that I recall from it was our inability to use the latest version of Oracle (which I think was 8i ??) and so the developers were forced to use the previous version (7?) instead. The reason was that the new version of the software had not been security accredited yet. Has the same been the case on JPA I wonder? We found that the developers were having to un-learn skills, rather like having their hands tied behind their backs.

As for being user-unfriendly, I agree it's not perfect, but RASDA is a massive step-forward from its predecessor (UKAIR CCIS).

I'll get me coat. Back to JPA.

STH

Pontius Navigator

30th Apr 2006, 18:41

and MFMIS?

Or the Tornado Mission planner or the EW program system (Something like PFMR or PFMP) in the late 80s? Supposed to take EWOSE data and either replicate EW signatures for the jets or at Coningsby actually create tapes in case the master machine at EWOSE failed (was bombed).

Anyone remember Bodger Edwards of EWOSE? Job so secret that he was absolute ruler of his feifdom.

Where R We?

2nd May 2006, 11:42

The routing software on the helpline has now broken down too...FFS...so I have to wait for the first available agent.

Found this out while trying to sort out an expense claim and on page 2 of 3, when I clicked on the 'Details' button, I get an error which means I have to contact the SysAdmin.......

:mad:

Edit: And then the w*****s hung up on me! :mad: :mad:

Edit2: 24 hr wait for them to come back to me.........

SpotterFC

2nd May 2006, 11:49

Just think yourselves lucky if you got paid at all.
Apparently, due to 'a breakdown in communications' with the Cypriot Banks people in Cyprus didn't get paid until today (if they were lucky). I wonder if they mean 'we forgot to tell them'?
Where Are We - that'll teach you to be in a job that requires you to go overseas for 'business' meetings:E . GPC - the way ahead.

Where R We?

2nd May 2006, 11:53

Where Are We - that'll teach you to be in a job that requires you to go overseas for 'business' meetings:E . GPC - the way ahead.
GPC covers most of it but the airport terminal doesn't take too kindly to GPC for a bottle of juice, nor the miserable French bus driver for 3.90EU, can't get IE from GPC either :) Nice to hear from you too :p

4fitter

2nd May 2006, 12:16

Logged on for the first time today to try and sort out a claim.
Had to get our HR Admin to talk me through because the box was doing funny things. Eventually was able to press the submit button and then received a message telling me I had been reported to my line manager for a policy violation !! If this means a fraudulent claim then role on the courts martial.:ugh:

Chox Away

2nd May 2006, 13:00

A colleague of mine managed to submit an i-expenses claim just over 2 weeks ago and has been duly paid. Success!
However, after logging on today (just returned from 2 weeks detachment) to submit another, he has just received a message through JPA that the claim has been chosen for auditing purposes and is to take all receipts etc up to handbrake house in person (could otherwise get lost in the post) sometime within the next 7 days. (This request is already overdue due to the 2 week detachment). Additional to this, all future claims are to be withheld until he has done so.
:{

Scud-U-Like

2nd May 2006, 17:18

JPA started the Reichstag fire, shot Kennedy and ate my hamster!

Plasticab

2nd May 2006, 18:36

Get this...one of the guys at a secret Shroshire Training Base got paid £12,000 net this month.....now that's a lot of premium bonds!

Where R We?

2nd May 2006, 18:41

Found an excellent flaw in the system (one of many no doubt!!)

My immediate boss has now left the RAF on retirement and as such was on Terminal Leave when JPA came in and his replacement has just arrived. His boss (my Wg Cdr) also left the RAF and his replacement is not due in post for another couple of weeks!

I submit an expenses claim (shock horror I know, it worked), to be met be the caption, your form has been sent to your manager for approval. Ring PSF,

'Who is my manager?'
'Don't know, could be an audit check, please bring everything down to accounts'

Trundle off to accounts. Transpires that my expenses form has gone to my Sqn Ldr (who has left) for approval, after 5 days it will have been sent to my Wg Cdr (who has left), next it would have gone to the Gp Capt!!

Fortunately, the chief clerk saw sense and said that despite JPA being 'on-line' that I should go and fill in a F016 and get the claim manually. I could see that the PSF staff were getting really p*ssed off with the system too, more work for them and more work for everyone else...I am sure it will improve!

Where R We?

2nd May 2006, 19:03

At 15:00, even JPAC couldn;t access the system as it had gone 'offline'!

Pontius Navigator

2nd May 2006, 19:49

I read the MOD Web 'how to use JPA' today.

Easy Peasy.

Log on after working hours. No queues no help desk no handbrake house.

Inspector Dreyfuss

2nd May 2006, 20:03

I have a posting notice somewhere in the JPA void - if only I could access it!

Plasticab

2nd May 2006, 20:26

I managed to complete 2 expenses claims today, and send them!!!! Where do we now find out what we're entitled to claim?

Danny_Boy

2nd May 2006, 21:35

I haven't paid for my married quarter since I moved in 5 months ago. Just had the whole lot taken off me in one go this month. Thanks, (and yes, I had been saving the money in a high-interest account each month. That is not the point.)

Hydraulic Palm Tree

2nd May 2006, 21:54

Er - surely this is more than 4 times your daily rate of pay?

Tell them you want it back in order to pay them in accordance with the regs!

vascodegama

3rd May 2006, 06:12

At the secret airbase in Oxon a spreadsheet was sent round with details of all the overpayments. Not only were the details given out an infringement of peoples privacy it gave the figures and all. A quick autosum gave the total overissue at 250K! I have also heard the suggestion that they intend to recover it all in one lump next month-so much for regs. And yes I have put it in a high interest account. Apparantly we can appeal to OC PMS if we want it recovered in the normal manner! Siggest we all do so and give the blunties some work to do.

JessTheDog

3rd May 2006, 06:56

If QRs are breached, initiate a redress, write to your MP and get the missus or a family member to contact the media with a "CSA farce unfolds in RAF" letter.

If many people are affected, then consider joint legal action.

Hopefully this farce will see the public light of day after everyone stops laughing at the clown Prescott and when Clarke finally goes.

Kitbag

3rd May 2006, 07:12

From AMP yesterday:

'However, this does serve to highlight the importance of personnel taking responsibility for their personal information and informing JPAC of any apparent inaccuracies.'

Be good to get on the system to check for 'apparent inaccuracies' :ok:

dallas

3rd May 2006, 07:22

Finally got my pay statement yesterday. Unless I'm doing it wrong how are you supposed to check it for accuracy if the rates aren't shown?

On the up side I do like the new HTD from mile 1 concept :)

foldingwings

3rd May 2006, 07:49

Dallas,

Finally got my pay statement yesterday. Unless I'm doing it wrong how are you supposed to check it for accuracy if the rates aren't shown?

Try your Station Webpage 'Publications' and then JSP 752 Chapter 6.

On the up side I do like the new HTD from mile 1 concept :)

Are you sure? Check your HTD Contribution in the Deductions column.

FW

dallas

3rd May 2006, 07:56

Check your HTD Contribution in the Deductions column

.....bugger :(

Where R We?

3rd May 2006, 09:08

As it seems that I managed to get all the info I needed from PPrune re: JPA, here is the latest.

1. DESCRIPTION:

BACKGROUND

In response to the technical challenges...business continuity plans have been put in place for an initial period of up to 4 weeks...blah..in effect immediately.

CURRENT IMPLEMENTATION...Leave (Manual Forms), Disturbance Allowance. Individuals should complete JPA F018 and submit to Unit HR, Pay Queries (Contact JPAC EC), Emergency Contact Details (Unit HR), Changing Bank Account Details (Contact JPAC EC), Application for Early Termination (PVR) (details via BB), Employment Preferences. PMA staffs have published a letter promulgating the key principles of the interim assignment system...

FUTURE IMPLEMENTATION

...self-service element of JPA may involve the limited release of some of the functions detailed above to users...

Sorry, couldn't upload all the text, but it can be found on the BB

HTH

WRW

jpa-in

3rd May 2006, 11:44

Norfolkandgood - I think you'll find there's been a good cut in the HDT rates compared to the old RILOR. In addition, with the HDT now being capped at 50 miles a good few of us who were originally permitted to live up to 70 miles away from unit and claim for this distance are now well out of pocket.

(Still trying to work out how we had a pay rise yet my monthly pay went down considerably though :confused: ).

I suppose we have to grateful that we do get paid for coming to work, but it does put the mockers on the "travelling v house move" decisions made by many of us on posting before JPA came in force.:*

jpa-in

3rd May 2006, 11:59

Just a thought in passing.

Anyone sussed out how come the old "blue" pay chits were sent by 2nd class mail and arrived about a week before you were paid whereas the new "purple" one are sent 1st class and arrive days after the lucky few have had their bank accounts furnished with cash ? :confused:

foldingwings

3rd May 2006, 12:13

PerArdua

3rd May 2006, 12:13

Just having a look at one of the new JPA leave passes and it would appear that I can tick the box to get:

Time off for Dependants - If my wifes says I have to go shopping
Unpaid Leave - If I am stupid enough to want leave and not be paid for it
Career Break - If I have had enough of the RAF and fancy 6 months away
Parental Leave - Leave if my parents are coming to stay.

We have got thousands of the old F295D in the drawer which are now to be binned because JPA has reinvented the paper leave pass because as a computer system it stinks. JPA hasn't changed the way we do anything it has just changed the forms.:mad:

PA

dallas

3rd May 2006, 12:48

Anyone sussed out how come the old "blue" pay chits were sent by 2nd class mail and arrived about a week before you were paid whereas the new "purple" one are sent 1st class and arrive days after the lucky few have had their bank accounts furnished with cash ?

Everything happens slower and at greater cost when its purple - see The Falklands

Eye off the ball

3rd May 2006, 17:21

Well, I've left the Air Force but am due my last (part) months pay this month. Miracle of miracles, I actually get some cash but with no statement, I can't confirm whether it's correct or not. (I suspect the latter) I rang my last unit, trembling as flashbacks of the vinegar strokes of a crap life come rushing back whereupon I'm told to 'log in' to check the details. A short explanation of my new improved circumstances soon became a very long explanation. Result: "We'll make a note on your file, oh hang on, you don't have a file since you've left haven't you? I'll make a handwritten note and get back to you". I can barely contain my excitement as I wait to see if anyone actually calls.

I know, I'll chase up my tax free lump sum on retirement thing that I haven't got yet. I ring Glasgow pensions 3 times, the 3rd yields a response... from the MOD operator! Hello, I'm ringing glasgow pensions etc etc. "Ah, those lines are either ringing engaged or are diverting you to me, the MOD operator; hang on, I'll try and put you through again." 40 seconds of ringing yields the same fella. " Hello again, I'm still trying to ring Glasgow?" "Yes" he replies, "I know, but I told you they ring engaged or send you back to me." " So why did you try to reconnect me then?" I'm beginning to tremble again by this stage. "That's what we've been asked to do for all the knackered numbers so we can demonstrate we have made the effort to connect you to your desired number"

I really didn't think the Air Force could get any worse but, unbelievably, it has. Never regretted my PVR for a minute but I wouldn't mind getting me cash thanks, preferably with a statement which will free me from the requirement to log in to the JPA account that I don't bl**dy well have!!!

My current company works out my claims for me, since they know what 'duties' I've been cheerfully conducting, then send me a statement of monies owed before topping up my pay with exactly the same amount. Well my goodness. The compnay admin system even sent me birthday card this year!!! Well f*ck me!!!

ScapegoatisaSolution

3rd May 2006, 17:23

Spent most of the day dealing with an Expense claim for a US trip (which has still to be successfully submitted) but picked up some top tips:
The Daily Subsistence rates are for lunch & dinner only. Breakfast should be on the hotac costs so don't get room only (which is standard across the US). The capped limit for B&B in the US is $160 in DC and NY but less in other cities. Advised to get CHBS or travel cell bookings in future (missing out on good company rates if visiting a contractor) as they will get B&B.
The rate (they still use the term rate despite being actuals) in the US for lunch and dinner is $52. Previously the $10 for breakfast could be used to up the daily figure but bfast should be in the room. This $52 is the top limit.
Previously you could claim £10 PIE regardless of spending it. You know can only spend PIE on a 3 min phonecall home, laundry and a newspaper. No exceptions. You do not need to keep receipts less than £5 but if audited you will have to write a letter stating it was for one of the three items. If it wasn't then its fraud. A coffee or a bottle of water should come out of the $52 'rate'. The MoD will be saving thousands alone on the PIE that it doesn't have to pay.
There is no place for hire car fuel so you have to put it in the Incidental Expenses drop down menu. This carries a £10 max limit and will incur a policy violation which means you will be audited.
If you make more than 4 claims a month you will be audited. This is an Army rule applied to all services because 'anyone making more than 4 claims a month must be a fraud.'
If you ring into the JPAC and they place a service call back to you to answer a query they have 24 hrs to get you an answer. However all they have to do is 'attempt' to call you back twice before the matter is deemed 'closed'. All to do with Performance Indicators.........
A total and utter crock

Where R We?

3rd May 2006, 19:09

Thats not very good on the PIE :(

Shadwell the old

3rd May 2006, 19:13

4fitter

3rd May 2006, 19:34

Still on my initial claim and have racked up more policy violations. Even though I can authorise my own claims, I now find that JPA doesn't recognise rank and my claims have to be approved by a cpl who doesn't know me. Said cpl had a problem with the claim and forwarded it to somebody else I don't know but he decided to reject the claim.

After 3rd time of being put on hold by JPACEC and then cut off, I managed to get through again and told the young chap that if he put me on hold and cut me off I would be most unhappy. After a while the ernest advice was to ask for assistance from my HR admin.

Explained that my HR admin helped me submit the claim ! Well I suppose I'd better submit a template then he advises. What's a template I enquired politely, Oh it's a formal request for expert guidance. Expect a reply within 24 hours but your claim has still been rejected.

I'm becoming a little frustrated :{

snapper41

4th May 2006, 09:21

Just had my new, purple, JPA pay statement through. Someone has stamped the front of it, in bright red ink, with a note to 'inform sender of correct address'. Well, a) I've always had pay statements posted to my house - why did this one get sent to work? and b) I can't access JPA to check any of my details, much less to 'inform sender of correct address'.

Thanks, JPA.

Rather be Gardening

4th May 2006, 10:35

Seen the separate thread on JPA security. Just gets better and better, doesn't it......?:rolleyes:

The Helpful Stacker

4th May 2006, 16:17

Seen the separate thread on JPA security. Just gets better and better, doesn't it......?:rolleyes:

Blink and you'd miss that thread.

"And there it was, gone."

lippiatt

4th May 2006, 16:19

Spooky eh?!

Must have been true, hence a senior officer contacting a moderator and getting it lifted!!

PS Lets not repeat the rumour, this is too good a thread to lose!

The Helpful Stacker

4th May 2006, 16:23

Spooky eh?!
Must have been true, hence a senior officer contacting a moderator and getting it lifted!!
PS Lets not repeat the rumour, this is too good a thread to lose!

I think it was probably lifted to stop any hackers who have been living in a cave since last year finding out.

formertonkaplum

4th May 2006, 16:38

Or maybe it was because I said the thing that lets the Air Force down is OFFICERS. Too Many, Too Stupid.

Imagine how capable this RAF would be if we weren't following idiots !

The only ones I'd keep are aircrew, the rest should be de-commisioned in a kind of LEAN fashion.

Remarkable, the guys on the ground constantly have to suffer the mistakes of these so called TRAINED PROFESSIONALS.

Mech Tech / Lean / Warfighter First / FWD-DEPTH / JPA

All ideas thought of by OFFICERS and forced upon the masses. Too many people, earning too much money and then leaving and becoming a director / shareholder in the company that has just been awarded a contract.

They let the RAF down.

Almost_done

4th May 2006, 17:59

edited for futher comment

FFP

4th May 2006, 18:54

Still no FP . . . . .. . :mad:

SlipperySlappery

4th May 2006, 19:06

I've been faffing with this thing all day trying to submit a relatively simple claim. I am computer literate and, like the vast majority of the RAF, fairly intelligent.

This software is immature and in places highly counterintuitive. Given that Oracle HRMS is successfully in use elsewhere, it seems clear that the RAF version (with all those patches to ensure it is as rigid & inflexible as the clowns that it is replacing) has not been properly tested. I am amazed that this thing has been approved to go live when the basic HMI aspects are so poor. I wonder if the testing actually involved doing thigs like entering a cross-section of real 1771s (including the complicated ones) using real Servicemen (no, not the 'HR Professionals') to flag up problems like the hire car fuel issue.

SS:mad:

Testingtheseatlimit

4th May 2006, 19:25

I'm expecting 'trubble at mill'. Have just got back from a stateside visit. Only, couldn't find restuarant that didn't add 18% grat on our tables of 8+. So left that on Bill. Also, sat with selection of Contractors and civil servants (ie MOD). They were also on actuals but had no capping.... just told to be sensible. There I was, limited to certain items on menus when they could, quite reasonably, have what they liked! How embarrassed was I? F****G embarrassed. And my how they laughed, and they had every right to! Now, I really don't need to eat a lot (Trust me) so kept down to single course + 2 Beers, still came to more than $31 and that was in a medium class place!! The rates will just not buy a 3 Cse meal + half bottle of wine... honest.

On IE, found myself logging everything I could, only to find when I got back that we were only entiltled to stuff mentioned above. (Not water??, that comes out of your daily Subsis rate!) Overall experience = CRAP!!! I have no objection to actuals (from a tax perspective they make sense). Indeed, our Finance chap is a Civvi Serv and he has no problems at all, only he is not capped. Imagine trying to have a £20 lunch + dinner in London. Whatsmore, he has also seen a saving because, generally, people don't want to eat like pigs every night. But whereas, rates and normal actuals allow you to have the odd 'nice meal', this system does not. I really have lost complete faith with the RAF Hierarchy on this one. I guess they cannot remember what it was like to be paid at lower rank rates and, therefore, don't give a damn. 'Jack!' springs to mind. Please Please Please bring back Leaders to our Force. Managers just say 'Yes Sir', Leaders fight the corner of their men. This latest fiasco will end in tears, if it hasn't already. Rant over!

Testing

SirToppamHat

4th May 2006, 20:07

For want of a penny .....

I'm sure someone was asking what the impact was of all this bolleaux, particularly to ops. Do we have any airframes stuck overseas because JPA wouldn't let an advance of payments be issued and the crew's refusal to put the subsistence costs on their credit cards and claim it back on return? (This is a rumour network after all).

I have to go to MoD next week, but I doubt very much whether the actuals will cover my costs (assuming I can get into JPA)... should I cancel? This will, after all, save money!

:mad:

STH

Could be the last?

4th May 2006, 20:28

The credibility of JPA is currently on a par with 2-Sh@gs and his cronies.
However, wouldn't it be refreshing if the head bluntie or even his boss..... were to make some official comment to the masses and explain exactly what is happening, but more importantly, what is being done about it.:confused:

Hydraulic Palm Tree

4th May 2006, 20:38

Testingtheseatlimit
If I am ever in that position I will be paying on my GPC or corporate card and taking a copy of the menu.
Should the beancounters say tough on my return, I will refuse to pay the money back and then when they threaten to take it out of my pay, I will inform them that I will take legal action. By that time, so many will be in the same position, it will become a class action and they will lose as we will be able to categorically prove that as military personnel we are being discriminated against when compared without our MOD Civil Service colleagues and being placed in position which we cannot be reasonably expected to feed ourselves at an appropriate level.
Just my 2p worth!
HPT

SidHolding

4th May 2006, 20:49

I've still not been paid my flying pay!!! Anyone else? :*

SirToppamHat

4th May 2006, 20:52

To be fair, I think people at a pretty high level in the Project are putting out information, but by the time it gets to the workers it has been turned into a series of meaningless, vague platitudes. What's more, the few adminers that are left seem (to me at station level) to be working their bits off to try and sort out the massive mess that they have been dropped into.
The other thing here is that there are 2 separate and completely unrelated problems with JPA:
1. The system does not work.
2. The changes to entitlements have not been thought through or well-advertised prior to introduction. How long has the it taken for the actual caps to come to light? Even now, the info on here is more accessible than that at work!
Totally unacceptable, heads should roll, contract payments should be suspended, punitive damages should be paid by the contractor, Wayne Rooney should be fit for the World Cup ....
:mad:
STH

SirToppamHat

4th May 2006, 20:56

SidHolding

Yes - I've not been paid your flying pay either - but I believe there's a guy working in CAOC 9 who's been paid about £8k of it (I am not even sure he's aircrew!).

STH

Jacks Down

4th May 2006, 21:18

Saw these, just had to post!

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/Jacksdown/jpa1small.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/Jacksdown/jpa3small.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/Jacksdown/jpa2small.jpg

ScapegoatisaSolution

4th May 2006, 21:57

JSP752 does state that you can add gratuities to the bill but only at a rate of 10% (reference is something like 03.0111 - how sad is that!).
The civil servant's regulations states that you can only use PIE for certain things as well but is administered with much more common sense. I believe their system actually automatically adds in PIE for every day they are away.
Where do I stand if an advance that JPA says has been paid to me, but never arrived in my bank account, is taken back off my wages next month? Is that theft?

Topsy Turvey

4th May 2006, 22:24

Looks like I got out just in time in Feb this year. They do still owe me some LSSA which they told me will be paid "soon" through JPA!! Guess I wont hold my breath.
I have raised the issues with a local newspaper who are going to look at these postings before requesting "an official comment". My contact is very reliable. The nationals use this local newspaper as a source for stories.
Should be enough ammunition to get them started.
Good news. It appears press may at last have picked up on JPA problems. Instruction issued throughout AFPAA today instructing staff not to talk to media on JPA roll out to RAF. All calls to be referred to in house spin doctors!!

SlipperySlappery

5th May 2006, 05:58

I don't know of anyone who thinks that an electronic system for submitting expense claims is a bad idea as long as it works. And I don't doubt that JPA will work in time. The point is that it should not have been rolled out until it at least worked.

I don't know of anyone who thinks the actuals system introduced under JSP thingy is a good idea. If the hierarchy want to understand what is retention-negative about the RAF then this is it. This system is turning 'Join the RAF and see the world' into 'Join the RAF and get f***ed off around the world'.

Replacing a system where SAC admin staff spend 10-15 min processing a 1771 with a system where the claimant - usually senior to an SAC and therefore more expensive to employ - spends an hour processing the same claim is hardly cause for celebration, particularly when the system has been introduced to save admin costs. Does anyone think that anyone apart from the most chiselling of commanders is going to make people do this in their own time.

At least its a sunny day out here (again).

JessTheDog

5th May 2006, 06:18

Good news. It appears press may at last have picked up on JPA problems. Instruction issued throughout AFPAA today instructing staff not to talk to media on JPA roll out to RAF. All calls to be referred to in house spin doctors!!

So there will be a couple of dozen Deep Throats speaking to journos in car parks around Gloucester! :ok:

dallas

5th May 2006, 07:28

Totally agree with Sir Toppam regarding the poorly advertised change to allowances, which in turn has made people more upset. There is a purple coloured A4 booklet knocking around with the standard politically correct pictures on the front, but it's pretty vague. Of all the pointless publications we get anyway - eg. the Royal Air Force 'electronic ways of working' (or something like that) - why couldn't we have produced a users guide to JPA?

The capped actuals thing is another own goal. It'll save a few quid in the short term, but it's not a hearts and minds policy that will retain. Regularly losing a few 'unclaimable' quid has a far worse long-term impact than a singular lower pay 'rise'. And unlike other policies where it's presumed the old school won't like change but newies won't know any different, capped actuals will be an early introduction to the newies to what the company think of you. I would ask "what do other companies do?" The army don't tend to worry about things like people, but then most of theirs don't cost hundreds of thousands to replace.

If I was OC Everything I'd be looking to offset people's anger and frustration with JPA and if I could aim it at the RAF's greatest asset - aircrew (remember, I'm OC Everything) - then reviewing capped actuals would be a gutsy move. The saving would be made by removing the associated bureaucratic process and issuing a simple, flat rate of $30/night anywhere in the world.

formertonkaplum

5th May 2006, 07:45

It wouldn't be so bad if we had a decent pay rise once in a while. How many reviews of working practice have we suffered?

The Firemen get one to modernise them and they get 16% !!

If we got what we deserved, all those good for nothings and the nurse's would be on the band wagon after more money. The difference is that instead of holding the country to ransom, EG Firemen, we end up covering for them. Who covers for us, (Not that we are so un-professional to resort to those measures), but you see my point.

These capped rates are another example of ballox from the top with little in fact no regard for the people at the bottom of the ladder who don't get £400 a day.

In fact...... what do they do, to justify that level of pay? War Fighter First.... Eat healthy.... we these capped limits, you'd be lucky to be able to afford a Large Big Mac Meal.

End JPA now, before it really is too late.

Can't believe this isn't in the media yet? Has it got reporting restrictions placed due to red faces ?

dallas

5th May 2006, 08:18

formertonkaplum,

I actually disagree that pay is poor - it's one of the few things that would be nice if it went up a lot more, but it's not necessarily needed - apart from perhaps the junior ranks who should get barrel loads more money when they go somewhere like Basra. In fact, I would say that those who loll around in the UK and never go OOA get too much and a rebalance would be a great idea! (£50 a day LSA anyone?)

JPA provided an opportunity to rationalise allowances and that has been achieved to some degree, but the good has been undermined by an apparent net loss for many people as the new rates and levels come into force. It's what people perceive that matters, which is often different to what they actually get! The majority of people won't ever notice the difference between a 3% or a 4% pay rise, but if they have to collect receipts, eat the cheapest thing on the menu and/or ask the restaurant for a photocopy of the menu, they'll get niggly. Add to that unavoidable costs associated with being away on route - and I don't mean beer - and people will notice they are losing money.

If it costs people their own money to do their job, you lose their hearts and minds. But if you give them a daily flat rate and treat them like grown ups, sometimes they will win, other times they will lose and the reduced admin costs will pay for it. I'm gobsmacked we've scored yet another own goal.

maniac55

5th May 2006, 08:22

For the hierachy that want to keep the rolling goat f**k that is JPA out of the press the timing couldn't be better; 2-Shags, NHS's best year ever, 'where have all the foreign crimals gone' and the local elections are more interesting to the masses than 'RAF not paid properly due another crud govt IT project'.

Still could be worse, I could be short on this month's pay and still not have a pay chit to be able to work out why? :{

What's the chances of JPA being sorted before the next 'slow news days'?

vascodegama

5th May 2006, 08:32

Testing

I do not see what the tax advantage is with actuals. The rates were not taxed and nor would they be in the future. The airlines have rates around the world and the FOOD element of those rates is not taxed. It is true that some airlines have had to change their MO to ensure that their systems accord with that principle but none of them have gone for this half brained idea. As a side issue a chap at the secret airbase in OXON has given JPA as the final straw that caused him to PVR. Like so many Pruners I can quote time wasted on JPA -has anyone managed to put a HTD claim in yet?

SlipperySlappery

5th May 2006, 12:28

To me, the inconsistency is between the desire to simplify (because it saves money - reasonable) and the reality of introducing a system of allowances that is petty, inflexible and rigid in the extreme - A 4 MINUTE phone call sir - THAT'S NOT ALLOWED. Has anyone tried tipping 10% in a US restaurant?

After 16 years in the RAF and believing that we were actually better treated than most of the civilian world, this is fundamentally changing my view of how much the RAF values me personally. It's not the immature software, it's the actuals system, associated pettiness and implication that I am untrustworthy that I am starting to resent in large measure.

SS

Pontius Navigator

5th May 2006, 13:27

For all you scptics who said JPA should have had a thorough field trial before being released don an unsuspecting public, well it did.

On Monday 30 Jan JPA was rolled out at Northwood for a pilot run until 24 Feb 06. It was an opportunty for arond 280 personnel from the JSU to experience a pre-production version of JPA application in a realistic environment. They will be able to test JPA and provide feedback prior to the application of JPA in the RAF in March.

Well that is what the press office said on 3 Feb.

Then at the end of March the Army announced that JPA would be delayed by 4 mnths until the end of Mar 07 so that the network infrastructure could be put in place.

Hoots

5th May 2006, 21:55

Help,

How do you submit your home to duty these days on JPA. All i can ever get is milage based 1st passenger which gives me 3p per mile, i.e. passenger not driver rate. Tried JPAC, waited 20 minutes, eventually answered then the line went dead. Wasted about an hour before I gave up in frustration.

As for the capped actuals, been having many conversations about this as we are going on det and are taking an imprest. Seems to be a lot of making things up as we go along. For the IE, I will be making my 3 minute phone call each night, and will wait about a month for my mobile phone bill, this effectively means that each imprest cant be closed for about a month or so each time. Also noted that as every receipt is returned with the imprest then the administtration burden, with fewer personnel has increased massively.

I believe that everyone should put up with the extra pain and include every possible receipt, every self certification and do not take the easy option not to fill in the paperwork. Maybe the vast increase in the admin burden will make those responsible sit up and take notice.

This sure makes you appreciate the old system. It is also worth noting that we are second class citizens compared to the civil servants with un-capped actuals, wonder what the new Secretary of State for Defence thinks of this.

On_The_Top_Bunk

5th May 2006, 22:48

Don't forget to hand back any money in the smallest denomination possible.

Cashiers prefer 0.01 Euro and 1 cent coins

D-IFF_ident

5th May 2006, 23:52

Still no FP, still no pay statement. At least I'm not banned from the forum anymore - apologies to whoever I upset with the link that was sent to me by the Unit FSO...

It is illegal not to receive a pay statement when, or before being paid - see the Employment Rights Act 1996: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/96018--a.htm#8

We are also entitled to complain to an Employment Tribunal if a statement is not received on-time. However, under QR1000 - one must first make a Redress of Complaint within 3 months; but may then make the same complaint to the Tribunal concurrent with the redress (within one month I think).

It would be interesting to see the outcome of 1000 redresses of complaint against DCDS(Pers).

I could PVR - if I could log-on.

"JPA - putting the c**ts in accountants"

:mad:

Hummingfrog

6th May 2006, 08:08

Leaving the RAF doesn't mean you escape the effects of JPAC!!!

I left the RAF in 1990 and am now approaching the age where my full RAF pension applies. I thought I would ring up and find out if I had to take the pension at 55 or, as I will still be working, could I defer taking it and what would the accrual rate be for each year of deferment.

Being computer literate!! I looked on the net and found the following site http://www.rafcom.co.uk/pay_allowances/pensions_preserved.cfm which gave a phone number 0141 224 3600 for pensions.

I rang thinking it would be a quick call:D . The dreaded option choice girl who said "welcome to JPAC" answered me. This didn't immediately ring a bell amongst my old grey cells so I pressed option 1 for pensions. The dreaded " we are experiencing unduly high levels of calls" please hold. This of course should be " we haven't employed enough people and we don't really care that you have to wait"

So I waited and waited - bit of good musac Dam Busters:ok: on the line but no humans so I gave up. Rang a bit later same, rang again - engaged:bored:
Finally rang 0141 224 3602 - immediate answer!! but lady couldn't help said I had to go through 3600:uhoh: Asked for managers number of call centre and got 0141 224 8551 but of course no answer on that one.

JPAC was now beginning to ring some bells - had I seen something on Pprune about JPA - bingo read threads and became depressed:(

Decided to look on net again for more info on JPAC and guess what found that there is a freephone number for JPAC 0800 085 3600 so I had wasted money waiting on a 0141 number:mad:

I feel for you guys and gal’s left in the RAF who have to put up with this computer based rubbish. For info the company I work for pays £30 (in UK) a day for food - no receipts required.

HF

FJJP

6th May 2006, 08:28

I wouldn't have thought the software writers would be too happy about all of this.

[I'm assuming that Oracle are the software providers going by the above spoof poster http://www.oracle.com/index.html].

Maybe someone should drop their corporate affairs office an e-mail with links to this thread?

ranger703

6th May 2006, 10:06

I wonder.........

Just recently been away for 4days on a course,nothing new about that.Flights and hire car paid for,B+B booked through CHBS,nothing new there.Arrived at accommodation and had an entitled evening meal,1 course with a coffee to follow came to a grand total of £7.45,bill went on final accommodation receipt,saving to MOD £12.55.1st day of course had lunch,cost less than £5 so didnt keep receipt(told at briefing no need for costs less than £5),actual cost was £3.50.In the evening I went to visit friends and had a chinese(they paid!),saving to MOD £23.50 if I can't recoup cost of lunch.2nd day same happenings,friends made dinner,another minimum of £20 saving to MOD.Final day lunch as before,evening meal was a Maccy D's,totalling £4.99 at the airport waiting for the evening flight home.Again minimum save to MOD £15.01 if I can't recoup lunch cost.Thats a total minimum saving for the MOD of about £50 and that doesnt take into account the EE's I used to get automatically.

Now if another 10 people did the same.............and it happened on a regular basis?

Cost saving venture??

I cannot comment on what my final claim total will be as at the moment I still do not have access to a terminal to log onto JPA!!

PS.What happens if your receipts are in Arabic?

Wrathmonk

6th May 2006, 10:49

PS.What happens if your receipts are in Arabic?

The JPA goons hire an Arabic speaker at, say, £50 an hour and spend minimum of 40 hrs work checking your receipts that are for the equivalent of £5.01 each. :D

Got to spend the savings somehow!

vascodegama

6th May 2006, 10:55

ranger

The system relies on just the circumstances you have described. I am assuming that you were in the UK but the principles apply anywhere. Firstly as a principle you do not have to have a receipt for expenditure of less than £5 (JSP 712). So for every day away I am sure you spent £4.99 on phone calls, laundry or a newspaper or any combination thereof. Are you sure that you did not spend £4.99( although I think that is capped at £4.50) on lunch everyday?! Also for those nights your friends paid/cooked are you sure you did not have a snack/soft (£4.99) drink afterwards or before you went out? As for the £7.45 could you not find anything more expensive and dont forget your half bottle of wine/ 2 pints with it and a tip of 10%. Finally if the receipt is in Arabic or any other lingo it is up to the auditor to get a translation not you, in fact I would recommend all receipts in foreign speak just to piss the system off. Having said that, they would probably employ a translator at £200/day just to catch out an overclaim of a penny! Good luck with trying to put the claim in.

Down 4 Reprogram

6th May 2006, 14:28

Hoots,
After much scratching of the head and digging around on the intranet I managed to actually put in a manual HTD claim and get it accepted!

If you travel more than 240 days per year you can claim automatically, and it just gets added to your pay. If you get detached/deployed alot, and lets face it who doesn't these days, then you have to claim manually using JPA iExpenses.

The secret is to use the receipt based tab, not the mileage based one that you and I both thought the most obvious. As you spotted the latter option is only if you carry extra passengers on your journeys.

You put in a date the claim was incurred (say 1 Apr 06) and how many days you travelled. It is then up to you to calculate how much you can claim. Here you will need to get hold of a copy of JSP752 or find the signal giving the rates (intranet access probably required for either). For me with HTD(Private) I now get the Public Car Rate of 26.2p per mile. Don't forget you need to deduct your personal Contribution (PC) of 9 miles each way for private homes. The PC for HTD(Public) is one mile each way I think. Now tot it all up and stick it in the amount claimed box - phew!

Example.
If you live 20 miles from work, you can claim 22 miles for a return journey
((20 - 9) * 2)
This works out to £5.76 per day (22 * 26.2p)

I don't know if the system still stands that you can claim full mileage (i.e. no PC) if you travel more than 5 days per week.

Hope this helps to get you started

D4R

Brain Potter

6th May 2006, 14:41

I noticed that my net HTD is less than the previous centrally-paid RILOR. After much digging it turns out that HTD is based on travelling 18 days per month whereas RILOR was 20 days. Therefore I have lost about £12 per month at a time when travelling costs are soaring above inflation. Another shafting.:hmm:

BluePeterBadge

6th May 2006, 19:56

....entering a cross-section of real 1771s (including the complicated ones) using real Servicemen (no, not the 'HR Professionals') to flag up problems like the hire car fuel issue.

SS:mad:

What a condescending plhttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons//icon8.gifnker. For your, and the rest of this forums, interest 'The HR Professionals' are as impressed with JPA as the rest of the Air Force.

After attending a 2 day training course (that was cobbled together by the trainers over the weekend prior to us getting there!) we have been thrown in the deep end with the rest of you.

So stop having a pop at 'Handbrake house', we are as much in the dark as the rest of you. I'm sure that where possible my fellow scribbles will attempt to help, remember, we didn't decide to introduce this thing.

Not received your flying pay! My JNCO received exactly £0.00 from JPA this month.

Oh yes we love the new system.

Having been around when SAMA was introduced this ranting is oh so familiar. The scribbles all wanted our Kardex back, back then, it didn't happen and SAMA stayed........history repeats itself.

oldfella

6th May 2006, 20:39

A cartoon that seems to apply to JPA -

http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/cartoons3.html

FFP

6th May 2006, 20:45

Down 4 Reprogram,

Excellent post, thanks for that. Is that method the official way, the way JPAC advise whilst problems are still apparent or a fudge to get the money ?

Either way, I'll use it on Monday !!:p

Hoots

6th May 2006, 21:26

D4R,

Cheers for that, will try again this week.

Down 4 Reprogram

6th May 2006, 21:32

FFP, Hoots,

Thanks - I don't know of if there is an "official way" anymore, and I haven't wasted breath trying to contact JPAC as I've watched many others try and fail. However, the method has worked for a number of people here, at least it seems to get the approval of the allowances clerk who rubber-stamps the claim for payment by BACS. Until we get some sort of easily accessible user manual (not a daft eLearning package that only shows you how to claim a taxi fare to Whitehall) I'll stick with anything that works!

BluePeterBadge,

I know that people like you have been dropped in it just as much as us, and I take my hat off to the countless scribblies who are burning the midnight oil banging their heads against a brick wall to get things at least passably functional. However, personally I took SS's post to mean the software testers who are supposed to check the interfaces of new applications for bugs. There is always a danger when you use "HR professionals" rather than Jo Bloggs users in such cases because what the professionals consider straightforward and self-explanatory is just barking mad to you or me. Case in point (as has been mentioned by someone else I think) - the wonderful torch widget thingy. How easy is it to click on the torch, enter "%" as a search wildcard and then select an answer from a list of two possibles. I haven't seen any other good application that uses something as tortuous to say Yes or No.

D4R

ScapegoatisaSolution

6th May 2006, 22:01

BluePeterBadge
So are you saying that no-one from the admin branch was involved in JPA at all? Was it all aircrew, engineers, ATC, suppliers, etc who did it the work on a replacement admin system? Stop abdicating responsibility. The admin branch is to blame - maybe not you personally or those at a lower level but still adminers. You at the sharp end in PSF (or whatever it is called now) happen to be the interface or the public face, so get on with it. Don't hide behind 'Its not my fault' and try providing answers. It's not the fault of the girl at the customer service desk at a supermarket or even the pax staff when an ac is delayed because of bad wx but they still take the flak.
Just take responsibility for your branch.
If JPA was designed and implemented by non-admin branches I apologise, but that would show what the RAF thinks of its admin staff by taking this change away from them.

Kitbag

6th May 2006, 22:55

Scapegoatisasolution

Grow up. The guys in Handbrake house at Station level have had as much input to JPA as as F/O Bloggs had to Typhoon Weapons (guns) requirements has had. It is pointless and divisive to screw these people over. They have been, and still are trying to make the best of a very bad job. If you feel the need to have a dig, then do so (and I shall support you all the way) at the nerd who signed it off as being fit for purpose when it is clearly only fit for a:mad: wiping.

Kev Nurse

7th May 2006, 01:09

Kitbag, well said. Scapegoat is just being an @rse.

Pontius Navigator

7th May 2006, 07:01

Please see my earlier post. JPA was trialled at a PURPLE base. JPA is JOINT. OK, maybe the RAF is the lead organisation. Maybe the Army is just along for the ride (as always :) ). Whatever, it is a JOINT project.

If it was joint then it is unfair blaming PSF - yes it is still PSF just the name has changed for Services to Support.

ScapegoatisaSolution

7th May 2006, 07:54

PN,
If it still is PSF why did I have to send my receipts to 'Chf Clk, HR Flight'?
Kev Nurse/Kitbag,
Being told by the HR staff that JPA is not their fault and responsibility is utter bollox. If I was told to address admin enquiries to the JPAC or Air Cdre T at Worthy Down, why are they still employed on base in the HR Flt? This came from the person I have to send my receipts for audit. Should I send my receipts in future to the JPAC or Worthy Down? The answer is no I shouldn't because unit admin still exists and should be the point of contact.
Ringing the JPAC is a waste of time in both waiting for an answer and the answer you get from the Helpdesk personnel. Like HR Flt, these helpdesk personnel do not have the knowledge to be of any use - but why should we accept that? It is no good saying that it'll be OK in a few years or the staff will learn as you are messing with money and morale.
I accept the point that responsibility for JPA should only be a third for the light blue adminers as its purple. I also accept the point of venting our spleen at the person signing it off but who is that? Who is going to listen and get it fixed?

SlipperySlappery

7th May 2006, 07:56

Pontius Navigator

7th May 2006, 08:56

PN,
If it still is PSF why did I have to send my receipts to 'Chf Clk, HR Flight'?

Ah, clearly a well organised change better than the Binbrook system. Instead of the whole station adopting the new wing system in one go we do it by stages and differently.

Move Supply from Admin to Eng. Change Eng to Eng and Supply. Slip in Forward and Back (I Know what it really is). Rename in Logs etc.

Then for fun get rid of Admin Wg.

As a secret tea base in Lincolnshire they are now Base Support Wing. How about the handful of other stations? Can't remember what happened to PMS but, as I said earlier, PSF changed to PSF.

Silly to chanhe to HR as this might then mean being taken in to the civil service HRMS :)

So, is there a common set of names for the new EAW structure or are all the stations making it up on the fly?

Oh for the days when all the bomber stations had common telephone directories - some of these legacy numbers are still in use today - x301 x 302 for Ops, x437 for SOPO. x314 for photographic. MT was another common number as were the sequence for sqn 1, sqn 2 and sqn 2. Made life simple when moving between stations on postings of diversions. Now the guy who dreamt that up and implemented it deserved a medal. - Probably Broadhurst :}

tappy

7th May 2006, 18:38

Slippery slappery, you sound like you know nothing and your last post proves it. The officer corps brought this bloody system to us not the pers admins - we are the ones who are losing 30% of our trade!!!!! How many times was the system tested in PSF - none!!! How many times did we see the system up and running before the 20 Mar 06 - none! One of our so called leaders who will probably get another medal for this, signed up to this not a pers admin - do not forget that!

So why did we take JPA - guess why so that they could save money - so that they could lower your (people@s) allowances in one large swoop and so that we could take another step towards one force - JSP's say it all!!

JPA is supposed to give you guys out there the chance to do all your OWN admin - not so easy now is it? Do you think SAMA was any better when it first came in - NO! But adminers made it work - a bit like we are helping you out at the moment when to be honest we should be referring you to the civvies at the JPAC!

If you do not believe me ask for a list of the personnel at Worthy Down on the teams that brought in this system!!! How rank heavy?

Has someone f****d up your pay? We are working all the hours to try to rectify people's problems - I sometimes wonder why - Ask the people I have had to sack the same question!

BluePeterBadge

7th May 2006, 18:55

Blue Peter Badge

Ah, the 'we don't like it either so it isn't our fault' line. Well, it is an ocean-going disaster ('AGREED') and it would be interesting to know which branch the RAF personnel involved in this project were drawn from. (I don't think even the planners of this project could have picked on any other branch....but there again!!) Couldn't possibly suggest that it was the admin branch because that might imply that they didn't do their job properly. (Are you that naive? do you really believe that the RAF Admin Branch decided it would be a good idea?...JPA is PURPLE... we are the poor sods who have been shafted by those on high again...remember Pay 2000 anyone?

Don't use 'we've f***ed up our own people's pay as well' as an excuse to try and make it seem all right - you've f***ed up everyone's. (The point I'm making is JPA does not distinguish between Aircrew, Admin, Techies; it has "f***ed up" (as you so eloquently put it) EVERYONE.

SS

SS

Your apportioning of blame is both laughable and unnecessary; is every plane crash the aircrews fault because they are the ones who fly them? I don't think so.

Sure the Admin branch is involved, but if you managed to read any of the pre-introduction propaganda you would know that JPA is an 'off the shelf package'. EDS hold the contract (Passport office fame) and Oracle (System designers) provide technical backup.

There are whole rafts of people attempting to make this work (Civilian, Army, RN & RAF). You can line them all up and shoot them if you wish, although I really think you should align your guns on those who decided on turning this on before it was ready. A financial decision I do believe.

Thank you to Kitbag, Kev Nurse & Down 4 Reprogram for your comments.

For what it is worth 'JPA will eventually work EVENTUALLY', (because we are going to have to make it) but it isn't going to be anytime soon!

BPB

LFFC

7th May 2006, 20:01

Blue Peter Badge

Ah, the 'we don't like it either so it isn't our fault' line. Well, it is an ocean-going disaster and it would be interesting to know which branch the RAF personnel involved in this project were drawn from. Couldn't possibly suggest that it was the admin branch because that might imply that they didn't do their job properly.

Don't use 'we've f***ed up our own people's pay as well' as an excuse to try and make it seem all right - you've f***ed up everyone's.

SS

SS

Although I'm as angry about the implementation of JPA as everyone else, I really do think that you should take a long (perhaps alcohol free) look at your post and think again.

I understand that local PSF/HR people have been working all hours over the last few weeks to try and sort out the mess that they have been dropped into through no fault of their own. Moreover, suspect that if it wasn't for them, none of us would have been paid at all this month!

Consider for a second how it must feel to see your job about to be replaced by a new system, and then to have to work all hours to bail out that system in order for it to have any chance of success. I'm sure they all saw the lack of attention apparently paid to any detail of the transition process by the IPT and EDS. Unfortunately, that's a recurrent theme throughout all of our procurement projects at the moment - and it has to stop!!!

Personally, I'd like to congratulate the local PSF/HR people for trying so hard on our behalf - it must be very tempting for them to just walk away from the problem.

On the other hand, I do hope that when the National Audit Office hold their investigation into this mess - and I'm sure that that will have to happen - they demand to see the JPA transition plan and risk assessments and ask the Senior Reporting Officer why he thought that JPA was ready for implementation on 1 Apr 06. Was it because JPA had been fully tested and found to be mature, secure and robust? Or was it because, from that date,
SAMA and other existing contracts had not been renewed,
staff cuts in local PSF/HR offices had to be made in order for the RAF to meet its promised manpower reductions
new regulations for allowances/expenses had to be implemented in order to make savings?

BluePeterBadge

7th May 2006, 20:21

Personally, I'd like to congratulate the local PSF/HR people for trying so hard on our behalf (Thank you)- it must be very tempting for them to just walk away from the problem. (I tried - the redundo board said NO!)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon14.gif Another post for the beleaguered PSF Staffs :ok:

BluePeterBadge

7th May 2006, 21:29

BluePeter,

Is there a way of logging our genuine concerns over money, security, loss of allowances, etc? Enough queries ref a particular problem may help with damage limitation as I fear so many incidents of the failing system are not being noticed.

The only forum the unit has is a weekly return that is submitted by PMS to Innsworth. The return my unit submits does not 'pull its punches'. It has remained on unsatisfactory since rollout. The truth is there is no magic wand that can be waved. We are stuck with it, like it or not I'm afraid.

The failings of the system are all being noticed but the shear volume is overwhelming.

For individual help, try approaching your unit PSF, we are all maxed out, but I'm sure your staff will help (if the JPA system will let them), but try reading the 'scrolling news' or FAQs on the Stn JPA website first. PSF staffs are all 'reading the on-line user guides' to find out how things are done, we certainly would not claim to be experts yet. As people find out the what/where and how the thing works the info is passed around.

As I stated in an earlier post the trainers only received the thing on the Friday prior to training proceeding on the following Monday. They did what they could in the time they had.

The JPAC staff pass out contradicting information, when and if you can get them to answer. Again lack of training/knowledge of the system.

So once again, I will agree with one and all 'It is a cluster' but we have to get on with it.

BPB

Pontius Navigator

8th May 2006, 06:54

You should have seen how JPA was tested - 280 people, one site, 3 weeks. How long was the whole program in developement?

HRMS fell over because the pipe to its server was not big enough. Richard Hadfield, 2PUS, held his hand up and slowed the migration to HRMS in some areas by a few months. It started small and slowly builds up. Not perfect but it does seem to work.

MFMIS is running late on 'defered success' and missed its latest introduction date - training has not started AFAIK. At least it will come in in 2 phases although there will not be parallel runnng ALFENS will not be switched off

LFFC

8th May 2006, 07:17

Richard Hadfield, 2PUS, held his hand up and slowed the migration to HRMS in some areas by a few months. It started small and slowly builds up. Not perfect but it does seem to work.

So they knew that this would happen! I suppose it seemed like a persuasive argument, "Well - it's only the RAF, and look at the savings we'll make!"

How do you factor into this the cost of loss of morale, the loss of confidence in leadership etc etc..... I doubt if that was considered.....and all of this whilst we are fighting a war on 2 fronts!

Believe me, I'm always the first to embrace change, but it has to be properly planned!

Pontius Navigator

8th May 2006, 07:32

BPB, what do you call the new wings etc in your neck of the woods?

WinglessGD

8th May 2006, 12:46

ProfessionalStudent

8th May 2006, 12:53

Wingless GD

Surely one of the funniest posts ever to grace the pages of PPrune. Absolutely priceless.

Nurse, the screens...:}

Now get off our Forum you blunt git.

lightningmate

8th May 2006, 13:52

SidHolding

8th May 2006, 16:23

Still no flying pay today :uhoh:

LFFC

8th May 2006, 16:32

LFFC

I suspect the HRMS system Pontius referred to is the Civil Service System. Similar usage but not directly related to the Military JPA System. The teething troubles initially obvious within HRMS, and many are still unresolved, should have been a warning for JPA 'managers'.

lm

Yes, my mistake - I found that out earlier when I had a look at the HRMS website. But my comments still stand - the wheels really should have learnt from that lesson!

By the way - I also noticed that the HRMS website uses SSL security! They are obviously concerned about Civil Service security.

You might like to know that JPA was the brainchild and personal mission of the retired Scottish Air Marshal.
Wingless GD

Would that be the same person that allegedly joined EDS a short time ago?

FFP

8th May 2006, 16:43

Still no flying pay today :uhoh:

Likewise :mad:

formertonkaplum

8th May 2006, 16:58

In a previous posting I suggested the IDIOT who signed up to this crock would now be working for the company. Now, someone else seems to think this too. Well, after also dumping this WARFIGHTER S**T on us, he leaves to pamper his oversize fat ass in civvy street.

Banker. Or a word that sounds similar.

MostlyHarmless

8th May 2006, 17:28

as in "Laughing all the way to the Banker"...

rudekid

8th May 2006, 18:02

The problem at our station is being exacerbated by mixed messaging coming from admin house. Depending on who you talk to, we're still using old forms/process for some functions and when you speak to OC Accts (The Warrant carrying kind) the message is it's all JPA, go away sort it out. A lot of the procedures seem to be being made up as people are going along.

I've even seen that our accts guys have been demanding post-dated checks against advance of allowances for overseas detachments not on an FSI. I would be interested to see where this is written down as acceptable practice... Any admin guys care to comment?

Without doubt, some of the guys/gals in PSF are doing all they can (as I'm sure at other stations) but some are using it as an excuse to be obstructive and unhelpful. I personally have had a professional AND proactive service from SACs and Cpls who were anticipating problems and sorting them before they appeared. Hence, my pay this month included all the correct elements during a period of change. I appreciate I am lucky!

Many thanks to those going the extra mile at the moment. As for the others- you know who you are!

Almost_done

9th May 2006, 08:34

After some more light-hearted reading on the web I came across this little snippet the Girls and boys from EDS seem to have pulled through and caused yet another IT fiasco (http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/other/0,39020682,39175379,00.htm).
Why, why, why do we continue to use a company that continues to fail us? Are there nice little backhanders going on in the upper Gov echelons?
To quote the article; 'By chasing cheap deals via economies of scale, the Government has made a rod for its own back -- putting too many desktops running the same software in the hands of one supplier. It might cost slightly more and be harder to manage,' it is nince to see these flaws being addressed, however this is from a IT Web News Site, not the common browsing for most people.

Well and a little further reading leads us onto the savings (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/management/0,39020654,39172171,00.htm)for the MOD. Giving the Ministry of Defence a cost savings of £174m over the first three years of its £4bn IT outsourcing deal.

Yes these are a little dated but, they foretold the troubles to come.

Oh and to the nice Mods can we merge both the JPA Threads now?

WIWO72

9th May 2006, 18:20

Quote from http://www.bae-it.na.baesystems.com

In March 2006, EDS launched the EDS Defence Advisory Council, comprising a panel of defense experts from around the globe to develop new insights and ideas for existing and prospective defense clients. The DAC is led by retired Air Chief Marshal Sir Anthony Bagnall, a retired senior Royal Air Force (RAF) commander with 41 years of service. Council members review defense trends and advise on best practices. The membership of the council will consist of members from the UK, Germany, Canada, France, United States, Italy and Australia.

Spurlash2

9th May 2006, 18:44

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/09/eds_jpa_raf/
JPA stuff from Mark Ballard of The Register, garnered from Pprune.
Thank you Mark:ok:

Pontius Navigator

9th May 2006, 18:52

<<a full in-service date of November 2006>>

Some one is telling porkies. As I said earlier, on the Defence Intranet

On Monday 30 Jan JPA was rolled out at Northwood for a pilot run until 24 Feb 06. It was an opportunty for arond 280 personnel from the JSU to experience a pre-production version of JPA application in a realistic environment. They will be able to test JPA and provide feedback prior to the application of JPA in the RAF in March.

Then at the end of March the Army announced that JPA would be delayed by 4 mnths until the end of Mar 07 so that the network infrastructure could be put in place. the Army has announced on the Defence Intranet that they are delaying JPA until Mar 07.

D-IFF_ident

9th May 2006, 19:07

I got a glossy little pamphlet entitled 'The JPA customer Charter' through the post today. It was complete with an 'Investors in People' logo on the front.

I would have prefered a pay statement.

Or my pay.

SidHolding

9th May 2006, 19:40

Still no flying pay :ugh: tired of complaining, but won't stop. was on hold for over 10 mins today with jpac and did give up:(

roush

9th May 2006, 19:41

Still no pay statement.

SidHolding

9th May 2006, 19:45

i managed to see mine online before they removed that fuction, but i've not received a hard copy :*

BEagle

9th May 2006, 20:10

WIWO72 - mine's a large scotch please!

Surely you know that anyone using the Scottish Officer's full name is required to buy drinks for all those who notice!

Danny_Boy

9th May 2006, 21:15

That piece in The Register is excellent. Love his closing comment!

admin glasgow

9th May 2006, 21:28

An EDS JPA staff member told me the following.
None of us here have any respect for our employers or senior management at all. This fiasco that it JPA has only confirmed to us that EDS are in this game for the money and nothing else.
To let you guys understand what's going on in Glasgow, the JPA section are a small newly formed group of people numbering in total 34 (not counting the pensions side of things which has it's own problems) including the managers. Probably there are about 30 admin staff who have only had 3.5 days training on the oracle system (not on RAF pay and allowances) before the 20th March. They are also from an army background and most of them haven't a clue about the idiosyncracies of the RAF. They were led to believe that this system would work just as you were and no contingency was ever built in to handle the number of phone calls that have (understandibly) been coming in to them. The Glasgow JPAC enquiry centre staff feel they haven't been trained well enough to cope with the calls and as you know they have been taking names and numbers for some of the processing staff to get back to you with the answers to your queries. It is not helping that the managers refuse to answer their own phones and tell staff to lie to people about when they can expect a call back. All this at the time when the staff need to be inputting all the element entries for the supplementary pay run on the 15th. Yes there has been overtime but with an average staff wage of under £15k it is not the huge amounts you may imagine. That is always assuming that staff are not so disgusted at the end of the week that they can't wait to see the back of the place. As a final word all I can say is that the staff have complete sympathy for your terrible situation as they have all been shafted by EDS for 4 and a half years now - they know what it feels like. They are getting nowhere with their management who are all in denial of any problems. The staff at EDS Glasgow would like to remind you that payment of any bank charges incurred can be claimed back through your unit HR and that if they were allowed to, I'm sure they would urge you to contact your MPs