RAF JPA Rollout

[dallas]

I'm with you there neilmac. A single friend of mine works for a civvy company and she was moving up from Kent. They gave her time off work, paid her travel and hotels while she came up to look for somewhere to live twice - as she's a bird she couldn't make her mind up first time - and couldn't understand why I found that so amazing.

When I told her our 'deal' - DIY through the RAF, sans big stuff, or DIY for a capped rate, she thought that was awful - I only lost £50, but losing any money when you're told to relocate is just one of those relatively minor things that mount up.

My mound of 'little things' has elevated me to a point of being able to jump the fence. I'm off - papers went in after Xmas.

[Ventre A Terre]

Despite JPA bulletins stating that CEA would be guaranteed to be paid by 13 Apr if claims were submitted by 2 Apr, imagine my surprise to find that this has been yet another empty promise.:ugh: Kids return to school in 2 days time yet there is unlikely to be any payment before the end of the month (or so JPAC says!).

Has anyone received their payment yet?

VAT

[Spotting Bad Guys]

I was expecting payment yesterday. Having contacted my bank it is awaiting credit to my account tomorrow -Sunday! JPAC work Sundays?

[Ventre A Terre]

SPG
Thanks for that. I'll wait with baited breath.

[SirToppamHat]

Ventre a Terre/SPG

Thanks for the input - same here, promised Friday, but nothing seen. I have an understanding Bursar, but I am sick to death of having to apologise on behalf of the nonsense that is JPA.

STH

[Rev I. Tin]

Luckily I have another week before the little Revs go back to school which will allow enough time for my CEA to hit the bank (hopefully)
Unluckily I have another week before the little Revs go back to school.

Edited to add that just checked bank account online just a minute ago and my CEA was paid into my account yesterday.

[Ginseng]

Mine is showing as a credit in the bank on Mon 16th, despite the JPA payslip showing the date for payment as 30th Apr, so hopefully it has all gone smoothly after all.

Regards

Ginseng

[dogstar2]

Unable to log on since Oct due deployments. Very poor service no-one able to tell me how much leave I have left - JPA is down excuse.

Leaving soon and this has most definately contributed to my decision - we are no longer being looked after and the perks are on their way out. Frankly I feel that one needs a few perks to justify constant op deployments - people are voting with their feet.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Apparently not all is peachy at JPA.....

JPAC employee email. Names removed to protect the guilty.


Subject: cheery-bee



Well folks, my time here has come to an end...

I've had just about as much as I can take of this place. Never in my puff have I worked in such a bizarre environment.

We get trained on the systems through emails! (what's that all about? no wonder none of us have a clue!)

We can't swap shifts, even though we all do the same job and have the same skills.

We can't take holidays, even though we put in for them 5 weeks in advance. We can't even speak to CST ourselves, god forbid we should distract them from their tea/coffee and finger buffet (what do they actually do?) and why we have to go through management is beyond me!

And speaking of management... How any of the supervisors got where they are is a total mystery to me! They know absolutely nothing about anything. (but then if they had the same training as me, two weeks of playing solitaire, that would explain it)

You ask ******* (anyone got a breath mint?) for assistance and all you get is either a blank look or told she's busy (once again, what does she actually do?)

You ask ******* for help and you're given the most false smile I think I have ever seen, and she has no clue what you're talking about.

And ******* just as bad!

You've got ***********, now I've never seen anyone so misguidedly full of their own self importance! He thinks he's a pure stud, am I the only one that thinks he's a greasy little weasel? He's gross! He's just a total plamf. It's sad!

And then there's ******** who seems to think he's a supervisor, but is actually not! But he seems to have delusions of grandeur because his signature on his emails says "supervisor". Why this has never been picked up by higher management is a mystery, but then they're hardly the brightest bunch of people are they?



They actually seem more interested in meeting their stats than focusing on staff morale or providing a decent service to the folks that are out there fighting for our country! I've honestly never seen anything like it... we get three calls in the queue and they all start flapping and running about looking for folks to stick on the phone.

I remember one day I was in "work" because my JPA wasn't working and the calls went up to like 4 in the queue and they all started flapping their wings and put people on the phone to answer calls, just to put them back into the queue... now is it just me, or is that not the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?

But hey, all in the name of stats eh! Who cares that we're not providing a good service to the punters, so long as management look good... tis a joke!

But hat's off to the team leaders that actually go out of their way to help us when we're stuck! Though there aren't many of you, we salute you!



Anyways...

I'd love to say it's been a blast, but to be honest it has been one of the worst jobs I have ever had. And I won't miss it one little bit.

Don't get me wrong, I've met some cracking people along the way. But that doesn't take away from the fact this place is soul destroying!

So, I'm off and I aint looking back... but finally before I shoot the craw...

Here's to all beautiful people (you know who you are)

Here's to all the weirdos (we know who you are)

And here's to the supervisors (karma's round the corner)

And finally... here's to pushing your staff out the door!



Cheery bee peeps, be seeing ya

x

***********

JPAC EC Agent

[airborne_artist]

Love it! - a plamf is pure Jockanese for an idiot/plonker/etc.

[stickmonkeytamer]

Sounds like it is run with the standard military perfection- lead, as ever, from the top...

SMT

[Friedlander]

I don't often feel the need to post, but this JPA system is really getting me down at the moment.

At first sight, one might suspect that the post by O_T_T_B is made-up, but having received this in my email today (complete with names and email details for the whole of JPAC) I would suggest otherwise.

Astonishing - or perhaps not.

Friedlander

[lippiatt]

I received this in my e-mail today complete with names etc. The best part is missing here and that is the 'supervisor' asking all of the recipients to delete this mail immediately!!

Oops!

[Winch-control]

I can only sing the praises of JPA. Left July 2nd (By PVR after 22 years). Gratuity paid July 13th. Pension pain July 3rd!. Commendatins all round. A system that works for me. SORRY!:D

[SirToppamHat]

Winc-control
You'll be the one they send the survey to then...
So exactly how did you PVR? On JPA? Oh no, that bit's not working yet.
Tried to indicate personal posting, sorry assignment preferences today, but it wouldn't recognise any inputs so I gave up.
I think I applied for CEA today, but I'm not absolutely sure ... again!
How much leave do I have left this year?
Started with 30, plus 15 carried over makes 45. I have taken 7 (allegedly), so I have 33 left. Even my maths isn't that bad.
As for previous years, seems I've always taken everything I'm entitled to - someone somewhere has been helpful, 'cause I'm pretty bl00dy sure I haven't managed to take anything like my full entitlement for at least the last 5 years.
STH

[Penstar]

Please visit...
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/forcessalaries/

[Doobs]

Everything was going fine with my JPA until Julys pay. I have lived out in my own house for over a year but JPA decided to charge me food and accom back dated for over a year. This resulted me being down in pay by about 250 quid and a Public Debt of over 600.
When I pointed out the mistake to PSF, they rectified the shortfall but I had to wait til this months pay to recoupe the 250. This month i received the shortfall but then they over paid me by 900 quid :ugh:. I will now have to pay that back over the next 3 months.
Apart from that, I have had no problems.

[Spotting Bad Guys]

What worries me is the constant stream of weird and unattributable entries on my online pay slip such as "MTD Advance Of Pay" (I'm not a driver BTW;)) which although has a value of 0.00 shouldn't be appearing at all!
Also seems a little strange that over the past few months the paper copies have been arriving a little later each month....
The online expenses input pages have now also changed as you have to tick the little box stating "I have read and understood the conditions.....etc":mad: It is already an offence to submit a fraudulent claim so why bother with an irrelevant tick box? Why are they wasting the software code writers' time in adding trivial items when the overall functionality is so poor? Have they ever tried inputting something sensible into a posting (sorry, assignment) choice?
Having just returned from a det which attracted LOA and LSA, it looked as if I had been underpaid and overtaxed; the JPAC EC muppet had no idea what I was talking about, couldn't rtell which was taxed and which wasn't, and insisted that this was a Unit HR matter. Never mind, I looked it up in JSP 752.....:ugh:
SBG

[D-IFF_ident]

Since my pay statement arrives a month or so after I've been paid it's difficult to track my pay. But I did just find out that my LOA has been paid wrong and I've been overcharged quartering charges since the introduction of JPA. Also, some of my dependents no longer exist, according to JPA, so reduced Disturbance Allowance. I'm sure it will all get sorted out in short order, with the minumum fuss or input from me.... :ugh:

[blogger]

JPA was written by EDS

Error Dependant System how else does EDS make money?

Cheap quote cheap to install ...... mega bucks to run maga bucks to upgrade or correct the in-built errors.


No software works first time as the profit margin is too small.

[rolandsizzers]

Just to add to the tale of woe - since rejoining the RAF as a PTRS aviator in January I haven't been paid at all. Nothing, zip, nada, zilch.

I receive 2 x blank pay statements each month, although they appear to be arriving later and later and now appear approx 5 weeks after the pay date.

The worst aspect is that nobody is prepared to accept responsibility, I could get cross but with whom is the question. Even OC Admin at my unit seems no have no recourse but to ring the helpline whose advice is always - Contact your Unit HR staff. Yes they really did say that to OC Admin!

:\

[moosemaster]

There should always be something your HR staff can do, it just depends how much paperwork they are prepared to do on your behalf. I didn't get SFP for 4 months. Each time I contacted JPA they said, "We'll get it sorted for next months pay run" They never did :ugh: I even got the HR staff to call for me, but they could only speak to the same people I could.
In the end I put it into writing to Harry Staish, and within 24 hours I had a BACS payment in my bank. Granted, it took JPA another month to catch up, but it was easier for the station to recover the money than me trying to do it myself. I am a number, not a name.
If you shout loudly enough at the right people, it's amazing what can happen :rolleyes: , the problem is getting hold of "the right people" isn't it?
(Oh, petition signed btw, for all the good it'll do :rolleyes:)

[Bladdered]

Does anyone know the name of current CE AFPAA and where he is based? I have no choice but to write to him after 4 months of attempting to get a P14 (statement of NICs paid) for the period up to the time I PVRd last year. Have written to JPA, payroll manager, AFPAA Innsworth and letters sent direct from Inland Revenue to the Payroll Manager @ Gosport, I have not had the courtesy of any response. Grateful for any help.

Perveresly, I was lauding the service I received from JPA just after I left!! Should have kept my mouth shut.

Ed

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

AFPAA now called SPVA:

People, Pay and Pensions Agency
The People, Pay and Pensions Agency provides payroll, pensions, expenses management and personnel information services for civil service staff in the Ministry of Defence, and other government customers on repayment.

Chief Executive: David Ball
Responsible Minister: Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Minister for Veterans)
Address: J Block Foxhill, Combe Down, Bath BA1 5AB
Website: PPPA website
Telephone: 0800 345 7772
Fax: 01225 828728
Email: [email protected] or [email protected] or [email protected]

HPT

[adminblunty]

AFPAA now known as SPVA, CE RAdm Spires, email [email protected] ([email protected]), Tel 02392 702004

[adminblunty]

PPPA is the Civil Service HR Agency, SPVA is the HMF HR agency.

[Bladdered]

Thanx for responses and PMs.

Ed

[Well Travelled Nav]

Everyone,

Please be aware that with JPA, if you are posted to a post that does not have a Specialist Pay Flying Annotation/Tag, you will be placed on Reserve Band of Flying Pay.

Any time spent on Reserve Band of Flying Pay does not count as time served towards your next increment of flying pay.

I was on what I thought was a Flying Related Posting that was not annotated as such on my JPA job PUC/PIC and now my next increment is a months later than it would have been if we had not brought in JPA. I am well out of pocket financially for accepting a ground job!!!!!

So when you get "offered" any posting by ACOS Manning, think carefully and don't forget to check whether there is a SP Flying Pay Tab.

WTN

[D-IFF_ident]

Anyone with more than 3 children might want to check that all their kids are still on record since JPA. A friend of mine lost some of his kids in the change, apparently....

[McDuff]

I have just told "HR" (was PSF) that I am being over-paid. I wonder how long it will take them to start taking the money back and whether I will get a new P60 for the last tax year. Or will I have to approximate my taxable pay for last year to get my overpayment in tax back ... ?

McD

[Spam_UK]

I've currently had a pay issue with JPAC for coming up on four months (I know its nothing compared to some!).

Whilst I understand that certain elements of our pay are dealt with by our unit staff, and others by JPA itself, isn't about time that SOMEONE sorted out who does what, and more importantly cleared it up with the respective agencies!!! Just to stop this endless JPA loop of JPAC, Unit HR, JPAC, PMA, JPAC etc. etc. etc. Because as it stands at the moment, I've been sent by JPA to my HR staff 5 times, for issues that they have no authority over!!!:ugh::ugh:

Not wanting just to criticise JPA though, I must congratulate them on the great idea of a blameless/nameless culture, as not once have even managed to get hold of an individual office, let alone a person to deal with the issue, it just seems to get passed around. :D


Spam

[Rossian]

As an ex-regular I read this thread with dismay and disbelief. Hearing of the trials of those of you who can log in at work and persist with chasing your issues I wonder how reservists with limited opportunities and access to the system follow up issues they may have? Are they having as hard a time as the rest of you? Anyone know?
The Ancient Mariner

[Topsy Turvey]

My other half attended a brief given by Director of Military Ops (a Navy Commodore) at the SPVA earlier this week, in which he claimed JPA was a success and very few complaints were being received about the system!!:confused:
This is not my experience! Are SPVA management living in the real world?

[Rather be Gardening]

He was obviously working on the mistaken assumption that if you tell people something enough times they'll start to believe you. I wonder how many people mention JPA as a causal factor in their PVR applications? I did.

Oh, I remember, JPA doesn't track PVRs.........

[Biggus]

TT

If you can be bothered to look back through all the previous pages on this thread, which I can't, I believe somebody told us all how the world of JPA define a 'complaint'.

I seem to remember it is some different from your and my definition - but I could be wrong.

As I said I am working from memory, and I'm not getting any younger!

[Tocsin]

In my (limited) experience of JPA as an Auggie, we're still paper based and dependent upon the Registry admin personnel to do/chase things.
In some ways, the forms are easier - e.g. duty and HTD travel on one form, though non-HTD travel seems a bit more complicated than the old 1771.

[Topsy Turvey]

From MoD Website (26 Sep)
The MOD has been short listed for five Civil Service Awards in the face of stiff competition from many other Whitehall departments.
600 nominations were submitted by government departments and yesterday, 25 September 2007, a shortlist of just 36 successful nominations from 17 departments was announced. Following the Department for Work and Pensions, the MOD scored one of the highest numbers of nominations per department. The winners will be announced at a ceremony on 6 November 2007 at Lancaster House in London.
The MOD's nominations include
Technology Award and Project and Programme Management Award
Joint Personnel Administration (JPA); MOD recently completed rollout of joint personnel administration (JPA), a hugely ambitious programme to transform delivery of military personnel administration. The new JPAC provides essential support to operational delivery. 20,000 calls are handled every week, with average call waiting times under ten seconds and 85 per cent of enquiries are cleared at first point of contact. JPA has been nominated for both the Technology Award and the Project and management Award.MoD Website
Speechless!!:ugh:

[L J R]

Speechless.
.
.
.
.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Is it just our place or have the single cell life forms at JPA mangaed to lose all the pay slips for last month?

[dallas]

JPA has been nominated for both the Technology Award and the Project and management Award.
Can you imagine how awful those not nominated must be. :rolleyes:

[Rather be Gardening]

I wonder what a referendum amongst its users would say about its utility, accuracy and reliability. Especially as parts of it still don't work........:rolleyes:

[airwaverider]

See if they get an award now!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007460151,00.html

[airborne_artist]

From the article in the Current Bun:

"Last night the MoD blamed soldiers themselves for the disaster.
A spokesman said: “Unfamiliarity by personnel using the system would appear to be the cause of some of the pay delays and errors.”"

First rule of a cock-up - protect the guilty and blame the innocent :ugh:

[Almost_done]

The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/04/npay104.xml)have also picked up on this.
In another example a Royal Marine also fighting in Helmand province had £250 deducted from his monthly salary because the system refused to recognise that he was on active service and was entitled to extra pay.
Because the Marine was unable to rectify the problem through the JPA's website he was forced to go the Citizens' Advice Bureau.


The awards get coverage here (http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/analysis/2199039/awards-nominations-3485367)and there is a nice feedback option too for what you think on the awards nice comments so far on JPA. :ugh:

[Rather be Gardening]

Thanks for the link, Almost Done. Have posted my comment. I hope the light dawns on the awarding body that the only people patting themselves on the back about JPA are the misguided so-and-sos who inflicted it on the rest of us.

[SlopJockey]

:ugh:
God help us all and save us from F***wit programmers
SJ

[Rather be Gardening]

Have just read the current crop of comments via the link on Almost Done's post, above. I really hope those at the top are taking some notice of the lucidly expressed anger in that feedback column, rather than relying on the so-called 'lack of complaints' excuse trotted out via the PR system.

[Safety_Helmut]

Thanks Mike, that's my comment.

I left the RAF about a year ago and have just recently received a bill from them. Apparently I owe money, about £150, but when I called the helpline, nobody could tell me why I owed the money. She suggested I call the PSF (HR ?) at my last unit to try and sort it out. I pointed out that I am no longer in the RAF and have no real inclination to sort out their cock up. So I am now awaiting the paperwork to show what I owe and why. I wonder how long it will take ?

This just compounded all the hassle I had with JPA whilst I was in. I have worked in software and safety engineering for the last 10 years and this is truly one of the worst implemented projects I have seen.

I really feel for the people who still have to use this system.

S_H

[SirToppamHat]

S_H

Why don't you tell them you'll see them in court?

STH

[ZOFO]

Mike PM me

[L J R]

Welcome to the site Sarah Arnott from Computing Magazine.

Hope you have time to troll through all the JPA complaints over the last year or so. Note that some of these contributors fly combat aircraft over foreign soil (and some are wannabees).......

Pay and allowances should not be on their mind whilst conducting their 'core' business, but unfortunately it is....

[Almost_done]

There are also those that keep the aircraft in the sky here as well. They need to be focused on the job too, not worrying about payruns and allowances.

[Epimetheus]

Bring back that late 80s flight safety video with pilot Richard O'Sullivan - "Distractions"

[PingDit]

Mike,

Just a thought, but you could filter some input through a dedicated thread?

[Bladdered]

One more for the pot Sarah...........

Almost 12 months after leaving the RAF, JPA has thrown up a debt that I apparently owed on PVR exit in October last year. No mention of any overpayment on any payslips I have ever received (payslips sent to my last place of work even though I had left the Service!!), now I am being threatened with legal action for repayment:ugh:.

[AonP]

Armed Forces: Pay

Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much has been (a) overpaid and (b) underpaid to military personnel stationed in (i) Afghanistan and (ii) elsewhere through the Joint Personnel Administration system in 2007. [154548]

Derek Twigg: The number of over and underpayments resulting from Joint Personnel Administration (JPA) system errors in 2007 can be provided, although the information requested for Afghanistan and elsewhere is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. The figures are:

Month Overpaid Underpaid Total
January 161 1,383 1,544
February 70 0 70
March 229 54 283
April 13,908 252 14,160
May 3,340 1,181 4,521
June 0 90 90
July 2,978 416 3,394
August(1) 0 51,917 51,917

(1) Figures for August are subject to revision and refinement.

The increase in the number of overpayments in April was due primarily to transitional data errors from the Army legacy systems where elements were not picked up as expected by the JPA system. Records were corrected in time for the May payroll.

In August 35,553 incorrect payments of £3.00 were made to the discontinued RN and Royal Marines Dependants’ Fund. The error has been corrected and the money will be re-credited to pay accounts in October.

In addition 16,364 underpayments of Home to Duty Travel claims for RN reservists occurred. The error has been corrected and the claims have reprocessed for payment in September.

[vascodegama]

Apologies if this point has been made in the previous 60 odd pages but are PA /Specaircrew aware that JPA has been paying the wrong rate of LOA? Those of us who are still entitled to Sqn Ldr LOA rates (ie Sec Aircrew and PA who were previously SA) are only being paid Flt Lt rates. So far the system has failed to address the matter so I suggest everyone in this boat asks HR to look at it -that way perhaps one blunty can find out how its done and we can all get our dues.

[ZH875]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ZH875/jpa.jpg

So, in 2007, the total number of people underpaid by JPA, is more than serve in the RAF.

Overall, if the UK Armed Forces number 200,000 then about 38% of personnel have not had the correct pay. Surely that must deserve an award.

The beancounters must be loving it, how much interest are they getting on the money that stays in their bank, and not the worker's.

[BEagle]

"So, in 2007, the total number of people underpaid by JPA, is more than serve in the RAF."

Err, only if all the reported payment cock-ups all refer to different people!

It's more likely that several people will have been messed around on many, many different occasions!

[teeteringhead]

One is not of course a computer nerd, but if it's a software (or indeed wetware) problem, how come the "underpaid" incidents are more than double the "overpaid".

One would expect them to be similar in number............don't even cock-ups (cocks-up?) follow a normal distribution.......

[Biggus]

Of course these are only the figures representing those that JPA 'admits' to under/over paying. My pay has been wrong for several months now, but the JPA system has yet to admit that fact, so my case will not yet show up in the statistics!

[TonkaEngO]

ZH875

Not sure where your stats have come from, and I agree that JPA has faults, but how did almost 52K people get underpaid in Aug 07? We no longer have 52K. If it is errors rather than people it still means that all serving personnel had at least one fault with their pay in Aug.

On a positive note - realising that this approach doesn't usually meet with approval here - pre-JPA it regularly took 3 or 4 weeks to pay a T&S claim, my last 4 have taken 4 working days from generating the claim to it being paid into my account.

Pse read italic text before replying

[Wrathmonk]

Tonka

errr more than just the Air Force on JPA ....:cool: Clue is in the title - Joint ...

Have a look at AonP post 22nd Oct 2011hrs - 35K+ of those in Aug were due to charging for the RN/RM Dep fund that doesn't exist any more.

[TMJ]

ZH875

Not sure where your stats have come from, and I agree that JPA has faults, but how did almost 52K people get underpaid in Aug 07? We no longer have 52K. If it is errors rather than people it still means that all serving personnel had at least one fault with their pay in Aug.


The clue's in the J of JPA... our dark blue and green bretheren are aboard now.

On a positive note - realising that this approach doesn't usually meet with approval here - pre-JPA it regularly took 3 or 4 weeks to pay a T&S claim, my last 4 have taken 4 working days from generating the claim to it being paid into my account.

Quite. And, notwithstanding everyone whingeing about doing things on the desktop, I find it easier to enter claims online than on a 1771 (though I accept the old system of just writing where you'd been and what you'd done and letting an expert work out what you were entitled to had definite advantages). The facility to have your pay split between diferent accounts has definite advantages as well.

Edit: Damn, beaten to it. That's what you get for taking time to say nice things about JPA.

[TonkaEngO]

Damn....

You mean a lifeform exists outside of the light blue one then?

Good point though....Taxi

[L J R]

Good to see that in the 1300 replies there is a balanced view consisting of 2 positive and 1298 negative replies....

...Am I now guilty of Buzz Word Bingo?

[D-IFF_ident]

I still can't even log on to JPA.

Would welcome advice on where to send a written complaint/redress that would result in anything happening at all. :ugh:

[Roland Pulfrew]

D IFF

The starting point is that you have to raise a telephone request and "log a call" (0800 085 3600 Option 4 Option 1 if you are RAF) or an online i-Support request. "They" have 10 working days to get you an answer. If you get no satisfaction (highly likely) then you can raise a formal complaint which goes to the JPA Ops Room at Centurion House (can't remember the rest of the address but it is on one of those JPA Customer Charter flyers that were issued when JPA started but are like gold dust now). If no-one else can post the address I will try and get it at the weekend and PM you.

Once you have formally complained (and don't expect that to get you any satisfaction) then the next step is redress..... but who do you actually redress? I am just approaching that stage now so will let you know when I find out.

I have just found out that complainants are now be encouraged by a lot of PSFs to redress, this is now believed to be the only way that their star-ships will ever believe that there is a significant problem with JPA.

Also remember that JPA cannot close a call without your approval to do so (recent change). Up until very recently they could close a call whenever they felt like it - that helps their stats. Now they need your permission to do so. If they close a call without your permission ensure that you raise another call and reference any earlier "calls". Also include the fact they closed a call without your permission in any formal complaint.

Oh and "Good Luck".

[Top Right]

Just a suggestion from personal experience, but take time to consider the comments you make to, and questions you ask of JPAC. I naively told them with my first fault that I thought there was a problem. They confirmed the problem and so closed the call, having "solved" my report.

So the next time I distinctly phrased the questions in terms of how and when they were going to solve the problem, and specifically told them that confirming to me that a problem existed would be insufficient as a reply to close the call. I was overwhelmed by the number of call backs I received to resolve the issue.

I guess I was lucky with only having had 2 problems so far, compared to some of you. But if you act as an intelligent customer with challenges to them that cannot accept a yes or no answer, they can't wriggle out of it so easily.:E

[gngr29]

Firstly, sorry if anything along these lines has been mentioned before. I did have a look through the thread but couldn't spot anything. Oh, and this is the first time I've posted so hello all and fingers crossed.

Now, not to be alarmist or anything but I have just had a 'slight problem' pointed out to me with regard to JPA records. All serving personnel will of course know which AFPS they decided to opt for. You were probably influenced by what length of time you intend to serve etc.

You would hope this information had been correctly input onto JPA. Yep, you guessed it! Out of just 3 personnel checked here at my Unit, 2 are incorrectly recorded on JPA as being on AFPS 05 when they in actual fact opted to remain on AFPS 75!

The 2 people in question have both contacted JPAC and JPAC told both of them that they'll be changed onto the correct pension scheme (one was done over the phone and the other was made to send JPAC a fax which had to be addressed to a supervisor). But what about those who do not know there's a problem? Will correction be that easy 10 years down the line?

I was one of those 3 personnel checked and luckily for me, I was one on the correct scheme. Unfortunately it took 2 separate phone calls to JPAC to discover this. The first 'specialist' said her system didn't tell you what pension scheme you were on (and yes, I did use the Pension option). :ugh: After getting increasing frustrated I tried the old method of putting the phone down and calling again, in the hope of getting someone who knew what they were doing. This lady did and gave me the answer in about 30 seconds :D. (Oh, and by the way the Pension Inquiry Option and Pay and Personnel Record Inquiry number both go through to the same office).

Now I know checking just 3 people doesn't prove anything but HR staffs here are currently in the process of trying to discover if this issue is more widespread. The 3 of us all work on different Sqns (we just happen to know each other), so unless it's an issue directly related to this Unit I think there could be problems. I'd like to hear from anyone else who has discovered similar issues.

It would be nice to know you're going to get that Pension you opted for…………:rolleyes:

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

I leave the RAF in Jan 08 and am sure that when I attended the Financial Aspects of Resettlement Brf at Uxbridge, the chap from the Force's Pension Society said that in the last couple of month's of service, I would receive a definitive statement of what my pension/gratuity would be. As I haven't as yet received anything, I today called JPAC and was told that I wouldn't get any pre-notification of my entitlement and would have to just wait until the money hits my bank account in January to find out what i would get!! I have got a pension forecast but it conveniently contains a disclaimer to the effect that if it is incorrect, tough! Not helpful when I am trying to arrange a mortgage so I can move out of SFA.

Anybody know if I should be getting formal notification of my exact entitlement and when it might arive?

Thanks
HPT

[South Bound]

Interesting note out today regarding the uncertainty of Commutation rights for those of us of AFPS75, the likelihood being that commutation entitlement will be reduced. Rules will change entitlement on service accrued post April 2006 and should not affect those leaving before a decision is made. The rest of us wait with baited breath...

Cue more cries of 'change of terms of service etc...'

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Yes, this was discussed at the FAR bfg which anyone in their last 2 years can attend. I think someone has covered this elsewhere on PPrune but ISTR that the maximum commutation post Apr 06 is 25% of accrued benefit and not the 50% it previously was. Somebody here will have that detail but I was told at the FAR that it shouldn't have too much impact......

HPT

[Kitbag]

gngr29 or any other admin guru out there, how do you check on JPA which pension scheme JPA thinks you are on?

[Stuff]

I don't think you can tell which pension you are on with only self-service rights. However while looking for that info I clicked on "View termination data" thinking it might be in there and found out I currently hold 2 commissions (one SSC and one PC) both showing as Active with different discharge dates.

Any bets on whether I'll get 2 pensions? :uhoh:

[ZH875]

Any bets on whether I'll get 2 pensions? :uhoh:

No.


But you will get two lots of Tax.....

[Ginseng]

The reduced commutation level for service after 1 Apr 06 is already in force, as it was believed to be a requirement enforced by the Finance Act 2004, which took effect in 2006. However, that interpretation has benn called into question, and MoD is now consulting urgently with HM Treasury and HMRC to clarify the requirements of the Act and whether they were intended to apply to commutation rights within the AFPS. That is the subject of the latest bulletin. Unhelpfully, it says that, pending a decision, commutation will continue under the "old rules", which I take to mean those that have been applied since 2006, rather than prior to the Finance Act coming into force - I could be wrong, as the intended meaning isn't abudantly clear. If I am right, then the best scenario is that full 50% commutation might be restored, while the worst that should happen is that the current restriction to 25% for service after Apr 06 will continue. An important point to note, regardless, is that currently you must apply to commute before leaving service in order to achieve the maximum amount. You can delay your application until after you have left, but, under the current interpretation at least, you cannot then commute any of your pension due for service after Apr 06.

Regards

Ginseng

[South Bound]

In that case the IBN is confusing and contradictory as it suggest to me that the initial reaction was no change and then subsequent guidance has come in causing this review. Does that mean then that the Pension Calculator provides a worst case commutation at the moment? I do hope so...

[gngr29]

Kitbag,

the best way to check which scheme JPA 'thinks' you're on is to submit a Service Request. Basically ask them the direct question. They have to come back to you within 10 days (I think) and then you've got the evidence in writing to hold against them when it all goes wrong.

Click on JPAC iSupport User, then Create SR, then click on iSupport Service Request. Type the question in and click submit.

Check back after a few days then click back into JPAC iSupport User and view SRs and click on the relevant Service Request you've submitted to look for updates.

Of course you could always ring them but then you'll have to evidence trail.

Gngr29

[Kitbag]

gngr29

TVM

Kb:)

[Wrathmonk]

Would appear JPA is pi55ing THEM off as well now ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/19/ntroops119.xml

;)

[BEagle]

An MoD spokesman admitted "issues" with JPA. "We would like to apologise to any individuals who may have been inconvenienced."


They would only 'like to' apologise for this utter crock. Which is far from admitting that it is riddled with faults, a total disaster and one of the biggest blows to morale in existence, from what I read.

Why don't the heads of whoever insisted on introducing this useless system before it was ready roll in public?

Someone must surely be accountable........

[Wrathmonk]

BEags

I may be wrong - and I'm sure someone will soon tell me (!) - but I think the RAF 2* responsible for the introduction of JPA got promoted at the end of his tour :cool:

[Kitbag]

Beagle/Wrathmonk- You have to define responsibility in these cases. Is it the 2* who thought up the idea, the 2* who approved it, the 2* who accepted changes to the specification or the 2* who accepted it into service? Some may well be the same but on a project of this size and complexity it would cerainly take longer than the 2 year effective tour length of the 2*. This sort of thing is to be expected the way we 'manage' careers.

[Wrathmonk]

The one who was in post, decided it was fit for purpose, and rolled it out to the RAF on 1 Apr 06.

I agree with your sentiments that all those before at least had an "excuse".

[Nobody66]

Have you noticed that when you log into JPA you do not get the padlock that is always present on a secure website. Instead you get a tick and trusted site, this shows that there is no security within JPA, a site that holds all your personal details and that of your family. The security is based entirely on the fact that the site is hosted on the military intranet. I know this to be true as I worked with an individual from 591 SU who was involved in the security audit of JPA, which it never passed! The 10 page security report was swept under the carpet and the people at 591 were told to stop hacking the site. Yet another successful government IT programe......NOT

[L J R]

You might find that this was a topical discussion within 24 hours of the JPA roll out - well over a year ago now come to think of it. Nothing changed then...

[Smudger552]

Arrived back from the desert to be told by the Admin chaps....JPA says 'No'.....I can't be 'arrived' back in Blighty. Won't be fixed until Jan 08. As a consequence any claim I make has to be sent to Iraqistan for approval by the hierarchy that have now moved on (thus it will be rejected). Fantastic system.....:ugh:

Smudge :*

[Wader2]

So I found a link on the Intranet for Help - JPA or HRMS. I rang the JPAC link. "Not me chief I'm airframes" It says ring you. "No you want engines ring xxxxx xxxx"

This was the owner of the help page that said ring JPA. Rang the number and they said . . .

Yes, you guessed, ring JPAC.

[Wader2]

I feel a snappy credit card ad, complete with soundbites coming on.......

For everything else, there has to be a Mastercard.......
.......'cos you're not going to get any money if you don't have one.



But you need a good credit rating to get one.

"What is your monthly income?"

Er, well when they pay me it's quite good.

"Yes but what was your monthly pay for the last 3 months?"

Well it should have been quite good but I was paid short by xxxx and they owe me xxxx.

"Sorry Sir, it would appear that you are a poor credit risk."

~~~~~~~~

And this bit is true: Someone in hotac does not have enough money to pay his hotel bill as he is between units and cannot file a subsistence claim. His former unit is not interested - he has cleared - and he has yet to arrive at the new unit.