SOUTHEND 5
DC3 Dave
I'm happy to take up your suggestion. The background to the discussion was whether SEN was suitable for Wizzair A320 operations.
"SEN is limited to declaring ASDA or TODA to below 1800m because its runway width limits it be being a Code C classification airfield; thus the TODA on both runways is declared as 1799m. In fact the runway is 1856m in length plus a Starter Extension of 135m on 05. LDA is declared as 1604 on both runways but the pavement continues beyond this in both cases. Runway 05 has 240m of paved runway beyond that (declared as a RESA) while 23 has 135m of Starter Extension which is part of the total 227m RESA. In reality this additional pavement is used by all landing A320s because the aircraft rolls out along it to clear 05 via taxiway Alpha or to use the turning circle on the Starter Extension to backtrack to Charlie or Bravo to clear the runway after landing on 23.
Obviously aircraft weights are limited by the declared TODAs of 1799m (or ASDAs of 1739m) and the declared LDAs of 1604m but not many airfields offer the assuring sight of extra pavement beyond these distances. Any operator considering operations from a new airfield will send a technical team to assess the facilities and I'm sure they would be quite pleased to see extra lengths of pavement.
So while SEN's runway is certainly on the short side in comparison to most major airfields, in reality it is not quite as short as the TODA and LDA figures would suggest at first glance."
After I posted this originally someone inferred that they didn't like to use of acronyms so here is the decode:
TODA = Take-Off Distance Available
ASDA = Accelerate-Stop Distance Available (used to be Emergency Distance)
LDA = Landing Distance Available
RESA = Runway End Safety Area
I'm happy to take up your suggestion. The background to the discussion was whether SEN was suitable for Wizzair A320 operations.
"SEN is limited to declaring ASDA or TODA to below 1800m because its runway width limits it be being a Code C classification airfield; thus the TODA on both runways is declared as 1799m. In fact the runway is 1856m in length plus a Starter Extension of 135m on 05. LDA is declared as 1604 on both runways but the pavement continues beyond this in both cases. Runway 05 has 240m of paved runway beyond that (declared as a RESA) while 23 has 135m of Starter Extension which is part of the total 227m RESA. In reality this additional pavement is used by all landing A320s because the aircraft rolls out along it to clear 05 via taxiway Alpha or to use the turning circle on the Starter Extension to backtrack to Charlie or Bravo to clear the runway after landing on 23.
Obviously aircraft weights are limited by the declared TODAs of 1799m (or ASDAs of 1739m) and the declared LDAs of 1604m but not many airfields offer the assuring sight of extra pavement beyond these distances. Any operator considering operations from a new airfield will send a technical team to assess the facilities and I'm sure they would be quite pleased to see extra lengths of pavement.
So while SEN's runway is certainly on the short side in comparison to most major airfields, in reality it is not quite as short as the TODA and LDA figures would suggest at first glance."
After I posted this originally someone inferred that they didn't like to use of acronyms so here is the decode:
TODA = Take-Off Distance Available
ASDA = Accelerate-Stop Distance Available (used to be Emergency Distance)
LDA = Landing Distance Available
RESA = Runway End Safety Area
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AirportPlanner1.........The EZY break clause was at the end of the first 2 years.. I`m not suggesting SEN is loss making per se..I am pointing out the base & it`s operation are governed by more issues than you acknowledge...Don`t wish to trade figures with you but it is evident to all that they are v similar in year 6 as in year 1...so the inference may be "going thru the motions"..
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ExpressFlight...Ho hum...The "someone" you referred to as inferring
was me, the only inferring going on with all these acronyms & the specification stuff I suggested was the felt need & justification for it & that "other viewers" (they do exist & not as technically minded as yourself) may well be left wondering why?.That is all...I get it...we get it ...the operators get it...Actually it is/was the most that was achievable given the restrictive local topography & budgetary constraints anyway...you also do not mention climb out performance all weights & w/x`s & engine out performance from both ends...& certainly not the full bad weather landing aids handicaps associated with this type of narrow R/W...Although it would possibly pass a technical assessment it is the commercial ops bean counters & schedulers that could hold the sway ultimately with any airline operation..
was me, the only inferring going on with all these acronyms & the specification stuff I suggested was the felt need & justification for it & that "other viewers" (they do exist & not as technically minded as yourself) may well be left wondering why?.That is all...I get it...we get it ...the operators get it...Actually it is/was the most that was achievable given the restrictive local topography & budgetary constraints anyway...you also do not mention climb out performance all weights & w/x`s & engine out performance from both ends...& certainly not the full bad weather landing aids handicaps associated with this type of narrow R/W...Although it would possibly pass a technical assessment it is the commercial ops bean counters & schedulers that could hold the sway ultimately with any airline operation..
Was not part of the original rationale behind the re-development of SEN that the runway restrictions would allow operators of smaller aircraft to develop under-served markets without them being swamped by the big boys at the first sign of success? Probably making a virtue out of necessity....
Also agree that EZY won't be locked into a 10 year contract that they can't get out of if they need to - who needed who most?
Also agree that EZY won't be locked into a 10 year contract that they can't get out of if they need to - who needed who most?
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Airport capacity is now a significant issue at five out of London’s six airports (Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton and City) with all of them near to full. However, London Southend
Airport which has the potential to accommodate 10 million guests a year, and currently at 1.2 million, has plenty of spare capacity to ensure a smooth, quick and easy transit.
Airport which has the potential to accommodate 10 million guests a year, and currently at 1.2 million, has plenty of spare capacity to ensure a smooth, quick and easy transit.
LTNman - could I suggest that you are in fact asking how much brownfield (or otherwise spare) land there is in the immediate vicinity for erecting airport-centric buildings ?
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1,000 free return flights to DUB/GLA/MAN on the airport website. Just name and email needed to enter a draw. All good promotion of course, but I would of thought 100 freebies would have been enough. Still, not my money.
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SEN rated best again for London area airports - Southend voted top London airport for customer service | Buying Business Travel
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Not surprising seeing that it operates way below capacity when all the other London airports are heaving. No doubt Southend management will be disappointed that they still have spare capacity when they should also be operating above capacity. When that day happens and they are still at number one then that will be the time to celebrate.
LTNman
Your comments seem to suggest that any airport operating at less than full capacity would automatically have won top spot in the Which? survey.
I don't think that's true as SEN will, for example, only have staffing levels that match its current throughput and won't have spare staff just waiting around to be extra helpful. The fact that Stobart control most things that affect the customer experience and can put staff in the right place as demand dictates is probably one of its main advantages. They also, for example, provide adequate seating in the departure lounge whereas SEN's competitors are obsessed with herding people into shopping malls and keeping them there until the last possible moment. It seems that the latter model isn't what most travellers want to experience.
The fact that SEN scored 84% satisfaction while LCY scored only 68% in second place shows a wide gulf between the best and everyone else. That cannot be explained away simply by saying that SEN has a smaller throughput.
Your comments seem to suggest that any airport operating at less than full capacity would automatically have won top spot in the Which? survey.
I don't think that's true as SEN will, for example, only have staffing levels that match its current throughput and won't have spare staff just waiting around to be extra helpful. The fact that Stobart control most things that affect the customer experience and can put staff in the right place as demand dictates is probably one of its main advantages. They also, for example, provide adequate seating in the departure lounge whereas SEN's competitors are obsessed with herding people into shopping malls and keeping them there until the last possible moment. It seems that the latter model isn't what most travellers want to experience.
The fact that SEN scored 84% satisfaction while LCY scored only 68% in second place shows a wide gulf between the best and everyone else. That cannot be explained away simply by saying that SEN has a smaller throughput.
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1.2.3 & your back in the room 
).......So every other airport operator in the world has the wrong model & Messrs Stobart obviously the right one...I predicted failure for the Stobart model & how wrong could I have been,it is the future...V Good Luck....
).......So every other airport operator in the world has the wrong model & Messrs Stobart obviously the right one...I predicted failure for the Stobart model & how wrong could I have been,it is the future...V Good Luck....
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Southend is clearly top of the tree and should be rightly congratulated. It has a new terminal and all the facilities in place on a small scale but that is the whole point. Small is beautiful and even better if there is still space to breathe. Passengers want no queues, no long walks and everything to hand. That is what Southend offers passengers. Whether that can be maintained is another story as all airports want to grow the business with remote stands and distant car parks.
At some point the moans will outnumber the praise. When that happens Southend will be viewed as a big success by the number crunchers, as they pack in the passengers but Southend will have lost something special.
At some point the moans will outnumber the praise. When that happens Southend will be viewed as a big success by the number crunchers, as they pack in the passengers but Southend will have lost something special.
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They also, for example, provide adequate seating in the departure lounge whereas SEN's competitors are obsessed with herding people into shopping malls and keeping them there until the last possible moment. It seems that the latter model isn't what most travellers want to experience.
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Business lounge
SEN rated best again for London area airports - Southend voted top London airport for customer service | Buying Business Travel
The dedicated wifi for the business lounge had a signal so weak that my mobile wanted to pick up the free wifi from downstairs! Not great for us business travellers. The choice of food was a sandwich in a carton which I quite like as it has less chance of going stale, however something a bit more than the offered muffins and biscuits would have been nice. Soft drinks selection ok, wine was either a red or a white and if you wanted the hard stuff you had to ask as they kept that out back just in case the Southend travellers drank too much of it. Overall distinctly unimpressed with the facilities.
On the positive side were the staff. They explained that I could use the other facilities downstairs if I preferred (not everyone it seems goes downstairs first) and that I would be paying £21 for approximately 50 minutes use of the lounge - was that ok? Once I paid and was in I was shown around the fridges and the biscuits and muffins and then asked if I would like to have a different sandwich to the all-day breakfast variety currently sitting in the fridge. Overall my experience of good staff customer service outweighed (just) the lack of decent food, drink and the all important wifi signal. I nearly emailed the airport to compliment them on staff training, I was that impressed with the 2 people manning the lounge.
Going through security at SEN has never been pleasant for me. I've used the airport three times this year, and most probably as many times the year before. Twice this year, with an empty security queue, they pulled me "on a random basis" for a search of me and my hand luggage and on the last occasion, searched my baggage because my Blackberry phone "looked odd" on the x-ray screen. I fly 2-4 times every month and that was the first time that my Blackberry phone has ever "looked odd" in the security scanner :-)
Overall the experience of quick transit through the airport is good, especially the return leg. The bar restaurant downstairs has been woefully understaffed every time I have used it, with tables only being cleaned when the food order is delivered. I have tried the new Bourgee bar and it is just like their restaurants, over-priced food, decent wine and terrible customer service (and they won't let you use their wifi
)However most people travelling through Southend are there because of cheap flights and the cheap flight brigade don't buy £8 glasses of wine prior to a flight, but sit patiently in one of the abundant seating areas waiting for their gate to be called, which will always be a maximum of 90 seconds walk from their seat.
Customer satisfaction surveys won't get them more pax through the door - people at that end of the market tend to fly from the airport that gives them the cheapest travel option door-to-door. However for the staff it is a nice boost to know that travellers value them.
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If you want to use sarcasm really you need to be correct. The Stobart model as you call it is very common whereas the shopping mall with a lack of seating and no info given until the last minute model is quite unique to the UK. Major airports across the world manage significant retail opportunities AND significant volumes of seating. I've been to plenty of smaller airports that have a similar arrangement to SEN.
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Also just noticed that the Powdair flight schedule has increased from 2x to 4x weekly with Monday and Friday flights added. https://www.powdair.ski/destinations/timetable.html