HEATHROW
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Paxing All Over The World
I cannot comment on the weather, as my friend's departure was delayed by technical matters.
However ... whilst waiting for the flight to go (4 hours late and counting) I noticed another problem with the new T3 car park. I commented on the poor lifts when I first used it in July. Today, the two llifts at the South end were flashing 'ALARM' on their display screen (the one inside the car) alternately with "LIFT UNDER FIRE CONTROL" or something similar. In fact the lifts were operating normally and continued with this erroneous message across the three hours or so that I was in the terminal.
Another triumph of product selection by BAA.
However ... whilst waiting for the flight to go (4 hours late and counting) I noticed another problem with the new T3 car park. I commented on the poor lifts when I first used it in July. Today, the two llifts at the South end were flashing 'ALARM' on their display screen (the one inside the car) alternately with "LIFT UNDER FIRE CONTROL" or something similar. In fact the lifts were operating normally and continued with this erroneous message across the three hours or so that I was in the terminal.
Another triumph of product selection by BAA.
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Whilst we're on the subject of BAA...
I understand that HAL has recently undergone a staff streamlining exercise - ie same amount of work, but less workers to do it. So, for those of us who use Heathrow regularly as either paxs or Operators, has this exercise been a success in terms of improving the service provided by HAL? Just exactly what areas of HAL have been affected by this streamlining?
From my own involvement (from the ATC environment) I would say that the level of service has slipped down the ladder somewhat, especially in the realms of Stand/Gates Allocation - although I also believe that this may be due in part to BA having their grubby fingers in the pie, and mucking up what used to be a more efficient service.
So, if there's any BA Stand Allocators reading this - next time you want to swap gates around, then at least have the courtesy to tell HAL SAU and/or ATC about what you're doing before you do it! 
and with regards to HAL - cutting your staff without reducing equivalent workload is a recipe for disaster. People can only do so much - you just end up burning out those that are left in the firing line. And don't think that 'offloading' some of the workload to some other cheapo two-bit outfit who cannot provide a similar or better standard of service is going to curry favour, either (except with HAL beancounters). It doesn't - it just makes a bad situation even worse. A Company's staff is it's greatest and strongest asset (or at least it used to be)
That's my gripe out of the way - any more for any more??
I understand that HAL has recently undergone a staff streamlining exercise - ie same amount of work, but less workers to do it. So, for those of us who use Heathrow regularly as either paxs or Operators, has this exercise been a success in terms of improving the service provided by HAL? Just exactly what areas of HAL have been affected by this streamlining?
From my own involvement (from the ATC environment) I would say that the level of service has slipped down the ladder somewhat, especially in the realms of Stand/Gates Allocation - although I also believe that this may be due in part to BA having their grubby fingers in the pie, and mucking up what used to be a more efficient service.
So, if there's any BA Stand Allocators reading this - next time you want to swap gates around, then at least have the courtesy to tell HAL SAU and/or ATC about what you're doing before you do it! and with regards to HAL - cutting your staff without reducing equivalent workload is a recipe for disaster. People can only do so much - you just end up burning out those that are left in the firing line. And don't think that 'offloading' some of the workload to some other cheapo two-bit outfit who cannot provide a similar or better standard of service is going to curry favour, either (except with HAL beancounters). It doesn't - it just makes a bad situation even worse. A Company's staff is it's greatest and strongest asset (or at least it used to be)
That's my gripe out of the way - any more for any more??
Last edited by White Hart; 14th Oct 2006 at 17:09.
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Well, we were issuing EATs of over 65 mins at one point, and holding at LOGAN, while other sectors were holding at BEWLI and POMPI to name a few...but credit to the guys at TC and EGLL, once the fog lifted delays recuced dramatically.
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White Hart - It's not just HAL who are "streamlining" it is affecting the other BAA airports too. It's concentrating on the Customer Service areas which includes those involved with the terminal and airfield operation. Trouble is the people doing the streamlining seem to have absolutely no idea about the day to day activities and have no desire to understand the detail of what goes on. BAA are going downhill just like morale and loyalty of many of their experienced staff.
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M90 & White Hart; Airport and airlines merely reflect what the business costs are and aim to reduce it, making more for their shareholders which to be fair is the object of the exercise. I accept that BA do dictate some of the actions at LHR to their advantage. That said LHR is a dump, it has been for the 36 years that I have worked at it and you are correct it is getting worse. The concept of airlines now is that you are taking nothing more than a glorified bus or train service, take a look at the Uk train services and central stations. They say it all.
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"Airport and airlines merely reflect what the business costs are and aim to reduce it, making more for their shareholders which to be fair is the object of the exercise."
HZ
From another viewpoint it could be argued that, in a customer service industry, looking after your customers was the object of the exercise. After all, reducing staff in key areas = a quick cash-save on paper, but a reduced/poorer service = less/no customers = less/no profit = less/no payout for shareholders.
I do agree that LHR is a sh*te-hole (with some planes), and yes it does need money spent on it to improve things materially. But the staff should not be the first option for reduction when cost-cutting is to be made! The same principle also applies to the airlines, both in front-line and Operational support areas. Make cuts here and the service suffers, and so, ultimately, does the profit. What's the point of a nice shiny new product if you've already driven your prospective punters away by the bucketload? How many people do you see on these forums, or in my/your own day-to-day life, praising the merits of LHR? Erm...........
That's what really says it all.
HZ
From another viewpoint it could be argued that, in a customer service industry, looking after your customers was the object of the exercise. After all, reducing staff in key areas = a quick cash-save on paper, but a reduced/poorer service = less/no customers = less/no profit = less/no payout for shareholders.
I do agree that LHR is a sh*te-hole (with some planes), and yes it does need money spent on it to improve things materially. But the staff should not be the first option for reduction when cost-cutting is to be made! The same principle also applies to the airlines, both in front-line and Operational support areas. Make cuts here and the service suffers, and so, ultimately, does the profit. What's the point of a nice shiny new product if you've already driven your prospective punters away by the bucketload? How many people do you see on these forums, or in my/your own day-to-day life, praising the merits of LHR? Erm...........
That's what really says it all.
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I have had a strong interest in Lhr ever since BA withdrew the Bfs route and Bd moved their service to Bhd. Those of us who would like to see a Bfs service return are told that Lhr is full. That has been the story for years. If Lhr is full, how come existing airlines can add flights/new routes and new airlines are still able to get in there? The most recent example of that is the explosion of new services to India. If something is full, it's full, except Lhr, which even though it is supposed to have been full for years, seems to be able to get fuller!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
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It puzzles me that Heathrow movement levels have never got back to pre 2001 levels even though, as you say, it is said to be full. The daily record hasn't been broken for ages, I think it is around 1370. This Friday there were only 1329 moves - and Friday is supposed to be one of the busiest days!
Also, there was a time when you almost never saw Regional Jets at LHR, which suggests pax loads are decreasing on some routes, presumably due to the low cost carriers taking business away.
Also, there was a time when you almost never saw Regional Jets at LHR, which suggests pax loads are decreasing on some routes, presumably due to the low cost carriers taking business away.
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25check:
Heathrow is above the pre 2001 movements
Total movements 2000 466,815
Total movements 2001 463,568
Total movements 2005 477,884
I stand to be corrected on the busiest day but I believe it was in July 2004 and stands at 1382 movements.
Remember the place is capped at 480,000 flights a year so there is not that much room left, approx 5 flights a day!
Movement figures from http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/disp...-5-54-57_9_2__
Heathrow is above the pre 2001 movements
Total movements 2000 466,815
Total movements 2001 463,568
Total movements 2005 477,884
I stand to be corrected on the busiest day but I believe it was in July 2004 and stands at 1382 movements.
Remember the place is capped at 480,000 flights a year so there is not that much room left, approx 5 flights a day!
Movement figures from http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/disp...-5-54-57_9_2__
Last edited by Geffen; 16th Oct 2006 at 15:06. Reason: Wrong month on busiest day
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Why do BA operate long haul from THREE seperate terminals at Heathrow. What was the logic in moving LAX / SFO / NRT / JNB from Terminal 4 all the way across to Terminal 1.
And why on Earth use Terminal 3 for only TWO services in the whole day to MIA?
Perhaps they really are overstaffed?
And why on Earth use Terminal 3 for only TWO services in the whole day to MIA?
Perhaps they really are overstaffed?
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What was the logic in moving LAX / SFO / NRT / JNB from Terminal 4 all the way across to Terminal 1.
And why on Earth use Terminal 3 for only TWO services in the whole day to MIA?
Perhaps they really are overstaffed?
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Disagree. Overstaffing is endemic at BA. As a business they are fat and they know it. they have been shedding for years and are still lethargic.
I don't beleive that there is not a single available gate in the whole of BA at Heathrow that they could operated one 747-400 to Miami from, either from Terminal 1 or Terminal 4.
Perhaps they are missing the old BOAC days at Terminal 3.
It's mess. Roll on T5
I don't beleive that there is not a single available gate in the whole of BA at Heathrow that they could operated one 747-400 to Miami from, either from Terminal 1 or Terminal 4.
Perhaps they are missing the old BOAC days at Terminal 3.
It's mess. Roll on T5
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I always thought they kept their presence there so that they could maintain a say in the running of T3?
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)so maybe not such a wild guess after all?
As for BA overstaffing - they could sure do with some dispatchers and tug crews at the mo - where have they all gone? Skipness - don't worry, I'm sure you'll see some staff 'slimming exercises' coming to the fore once the move to T5 gets under way.
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They have all taken early retirement.
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Railgun
What - all (conveniently) at the same time? Sounds like 'early retirement' was the lesser evil of two options . Out of interest, with the inclement weather possibly not too far away, has the same 'option' been given to the staff who take care of aircraft de-icing, or is that department fully staffed? Lack of de-icing rigs is a common excuse cited to ATC as a reason for on-stand delay in wintertime. (bet they never tell the paxs that, though!)
What - all (conveniently) at the same time? Sounds like 'early retirement' was the lesser evil of two options
. Out of interest, with the inclement weather possibly not too far away, has the same 'option' been given to the staff who take care of aircraft de-icing, or is that department fully staffed? Lack of de-icing rigs is a common excuse cited to ATC as a reason for on-stand delay in wintertime. (bet they never tell the paxs that, though!)
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White Hart
Well with the new retirement changes anyone wanting to get out early had to leave by the end of september (when the new rules came into force). The BA news has has pages full of retirements for the last few weeks.
I believe LHR is going to a central dispatch setup sometime soon which shud help change things.
Well with the new retirement changes anyone wanting to get out early had to leave by the end of september (when the new rules came into force). The BA news has has pages full of retirements for the last few weeks.
I believe LHR is going to a central dispatch setup sometime soon which shud help change things.