HEATHROW

[WHBM]

I understand the Dot2Dot minibus shuttle service from Heathrow to Central London has closed down.

DOT2DOT ARE NO LONGER TRANSFERRING PASSENGERS

[Seljuk22]

Arik Air Abuja-LHR 5 weekly B 737-800 from 26th November
Eva Air increases LHR-BKK-TPE B77W to daily flights from 25th Jan
Gulf Air will operate trice (not double) daily LHR-BAH during summer

Traffic figures
August: 6,393,321 +0.2%
September: 5,783,724 -0.3%
October: 5,687,755 +1.0%

[Seljuk22]

bmi cancels Tel Aviv, Aleppo, Kiev and Brussels (flights transfered to SN) at 10th January, LHR-AMS will be canceled at 28th March, CAI down from A330 to A321 from April

Swiss/bmi will start 6 daily flights between LHR and GVA with A320/A319 starting 10th January 2010.
From that date GVA-LCY down from 6 to 4 daily flights.

[WHBM]

Item on the news that T2 has finally closed today.

BBC News - Last call for Heathrow terminal 2

[Serenity]

Walsh slams third runway opposition

Walsh slams runway opposition | ABTN

SO it seems that the incoming government and the businesses that actually work and live at LHR daily have differing opinions!

Things could get awefully messy in the coming years!!

"The economic case for a third runway simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
"We are aware that BA does not share our view but we are part of a widening coalition of business leaders, local authorities, charities, environmentalists and community groups who realise that Heathrow should be better not bigger," Ms Villiers said.

So it is better for the enviroment that every inbound aircraft to LHR has to hold for 20 minutes burning extra fuel, than having a third runway and letting them land straight away???????

[TURIN]

No sympathy at all!

If WW insists on putting all his eggs in an already bursting basket then expect it to fail.

Plenty of other baskets around with runway/slots available.

As for environmental impact.

Anywhere between 2% and 6% (depending on where you get your stats from) of TOTAL CO2 production is from aviation. Totally insignificant if a handfull have to orbit for a few minutes Expensive, yes. But zero impact on the environment.

[Sir George Cayley]

What length has been proposed for the 3rd runway? The sketch plans I've seen so far indicate a shorter runway of 2000m ish.

As the environmental analysis has been published, presumably the actual planned length and hence traffic to suit has been modeled.

It's just that I've a feeling that there will be pressure for it to 'grow'

Sir George Cayley

[MAN777]

The argument that the 3 rd runway will reduce holding time is a false one, initially it may help but as BAA try to milk the runways for as much revenue slots as possible, it will quickly fill to capacity and you are back to square one.

I think a much better way of helping ease the capacity problems is provide financial incentives for airlines to invest in mini hubs away from London. And link them all with high speed rail. Germany started this in the 80s and look at their system.

Conservatives will bin it anyway next year

[ab33t]

This is a very political issue , I doubt whether this will be resolved by dialogue, politics seems to be the deciding factor here . Both arguments hold merit , which way to decide though . I agree that all capacity at existing airports be used and then look at expanding other airports , do you think the transport infrstructure could handle more at LHR

[Skipness One Echo]

If WW insists on putting all his eggs in an already bursting basket then expect it to fail. Plenty of other baskets around with runway/slots available.

You MUST be aware that with BA's legacy cost base they had NO hope of making money outside Heathrow. It was a necessity of survival that BA got out of regional flying. They had been bleeding money for years charging three figure sums for short flights in old aircraft. Exactly how that is supposed to win against easyJet or Ryanair I would be delighted to hear.

Legacy flying outside London is mainly spoke to hub as you well know. KLM, Lufthansa and Air France serve their hubs from the regions, as do BA. Point to point is a loco operation these days. Your sour grapes belong to another age.

agree that all capacity at existing airports be used and then look at expanding other airports , do you think the transport infrstructure could handle more at LHR

Done strategically and properly yes. It is our only hub airport, it plugs the UK into the world. Already a lot of UK traffic is forced to fly via AMS / CDG / FRA / DXB. A HELL of a lot more buinesses in London rely on Heathrow than comparably in the regions. My last two employers used it extensively, it was WHY THEY WERE UK BASED. I don't mind if they never build another inch of tarmac at Stansted, Luton or Gatwick, the pressing need has been for a runway three at Heathrow sine it was closed to new traffic in 1977. The Tories outside the Enviro-Mentalists know this but they need the West London seats so they're peddling an incoherent strategy involving the most expensive railway line in history top connect to Heathrow and Scotland...to encourage more flying from Heathrow.

I live nearby. Heathrow is not some urban paradise about to have the bulldozers destroy green fields. Stansted is. The Thames Estuary is a nature reserve for God's sake. There seems little reality in this policy. The only reason that it has garnered support outside the green lobby is that West London is home to many wealthy influential poeple who have discovered the real meaning of NIMBY. More flightsn in Essex is one thing but over my house in Fulham? I don't think so old boy!
As to the guy below, classic northern chip on your shoulder. You've got more flights to more places than BA ever did and yet you still chuckle at the real threat to thousands of UK based workers? Utterly bigoted and pathetic.

[AUTOGLIDE]

That being the case with BA, and the apparent opposition by the likely incoming government, it doesn't look like much of a future for BA. Something that matters not one toss outside of the SE.

[TURIN]

I could have bet my house that Skipness O.E. would pop up on this thread spouting the same old mantra.

Virgin seem to be doing very nicely from certain regional airports, without feeding a hub.

Lufthansa use more than one hub.

Still plenty of bums on seats from UK regions, passengers who do not want to use LHR.

[Skipness One Echo]

Air France have one hub. KLM have one hub. Cathay have one hub. BMI have one hub. Emirates have one hub. Lufthansa have more due to Germany being much bigger and not having the concentration of wealth in one area like the UK. Virgin have the same number of aircraft at LGW as BA have on long haul. The vast bulk of their fleet is where the real profits are. HEATHROW. Manchester has one VS flight most days to Disneyland. Not to a world city. Apples and pears mate. Had you read my post you would have seen that MAN is thriving without BA. Get over it.

[TURIN]

Think I got a bite.

Did anyone actually mention MAN? Mate!

Your vitreol over all things not LHR does you no credit. Get over it.

[Skipness One Echo]

When you said "certain regional airports" I assumed you didn't mean the fifteen or so departures each YEAR from Glasgow so you were referring to Manchester. MAN is a great airport and still has an excellent route structure. I am not a LHR fan boy, I just despair of the ability we have in the UK to procrastinate and avoid big decisions. We let our aircraft building and assembly go abroad. I suspect that LHR's usefullness will go the same way.

[Seljuk22]

CAA stats November: 5,028,985 +1.1%

Air Canada: from 27th May to 26th September LHR-St. John's (Canada) daily A319
The Telegram - St. John's, NL: Local News | Air Canada to launch daily non-stop seasonal service between St. John?s and London Heathrow

Brussels Airlines: from 11th Jan 4 daily LHR-BRU

[Seljuk22]

AF on 21st/22nd Dec and LH on 22nd/23rd Dec using B744 from/to CDG/FRA cause of the snow problems.

Qantas: LHR-SIN-MEL with A380

From 18 January, the A380 will operate one to two flights per week on the route (QF9 on Mondays and Sundays and the return QF10 on Fridays and Saturdays), with regular twice-weekly flights to commence on 29 March.

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases - Qantas to Grow A380 Fleet and Launch Melbourne-London A380 Services

[Donkey497]

Air Canada: from 27th May to 26th September LHR-St. John's (Canada) daily A319

Wish to hell they'd give LHR a bodyswerve & do EDI, GLA or even ABZ instead.

[chuboy]

At this stage it is almost too late - it is coming to a point among travellers that Heathrow is no longer a transiting hub - too stressful an experience. It can't be expanded any more, despite that not making business sense. Another runway would ease congestion but as has been mentioned, if it was EVER built, BAA would fill it up to the brim once again, intensifying the problem.

Eventually demand for regional flights ex LHR will drop as consumers lose interest in flying to or through LHR. It is much much easier to fly via DXB or AUH, or CDG or FRA than LHR. At best I see it as becoming the final destination, competing only with other London airports for airlines. Etihad for instance has opened routes to many cities which normally you would have to connect in Europe to access first - e.g. Kiev or Almaty, thereby removing the necessity to transit in Europe.

I realise I am talking about a very specific part of LHR's userbase - i.e. those on the Kangaroo route. I regularly travel from Australia to Ireland, for instance, and what I've noticed is that AUH-DUB is almost always full. There definitely seems to be demand among consumers to avoid the congested mess that is Heathrow and fly direct to the destination, even if it means paying a little more for a ticket.

Middle East hubs are becoming very viable and in my opinion Heathrow's days as a transit hub are limited. Therefore, I think the wisest option would be to develop other London area airports and upgrade the rail links between them. This maximises the number of ways pax can use London airports in transit and eventually means more money overall. Concentrating on milking one airport is doomed to failure, which can be seen on any day at Heathrow.

But those are just my 2 cents and I'm sure I've overlooked hugely important detail.

[MUFC_fan]

I'm transferring at LHR in February.

Basically, I will be landing at T5 and want to get to T3. Having only transferred at LHR through one terminal, I want to know whether I will have to check in again in T3 and vice versa on the return leg?

I am on one return ticket with BA/IB.

Thanks.