USAF Out of Ideas
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
USAF Out of Ideas
Looks like the USAF has run out of ideas to retain pilots. So, they've turned to amorphous HR gibberish to describe the issue and propose a "solution"...based on...gibberish. "...work beyond the fringes of the problem.“ ? Really ?:
“Any solution to the pilot retention problem needs to focus on morale, not money.”
“Rand evidently views the personnel system as a challenge too daunting to tackle.”
“It is time for the Air Force to work beyond the fringes of the problem.“
https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinio...sses-the-mark/
“Any solution to the pilot retention problem needs to focus on morale, not money.”
“Rand evidently views the personnel system as a challenge too daunting to tackle.”
“It is time for the Air Force to work beyond the fringes of the problem.“
https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinio...sses-the-mark/
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 125
Likes: 6
From: Republic of Texas
If this is their option, I have an alternative. Simply extend the WO program up past CW4 to CW6 or CW7. This would address both issues. First, the monetary problem of being maxed out in pay at the equiv of a Major, but extending the non-careerist pilot up into the similar pay grade as full Col, or BG. Second for those who truly do want the management career, it will open up more slots for them to work into commander positions.
I had a crew chief back in the day who was in his 30s and was a Spec-7. He got promoted to Spec-8 while I was with him, and was hoping for Spec-9 before retirement. Not the exact same thing, but from a pilot side, works for me.
I had a crew chief back in the day who was in his 30s and was a Spec-7. He got promoted to Spec-8 while I was with him, and was hoping for Spec-9 before retirement. Not the exact same thing, but from a pilot side, works for me.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
rudestuff touched on an aspect that crossed my mind a time or two: length of service for pilots.
Of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it (maybe even less) but we often hear that the cost of flight training is prohibitive and a barrier to a pilot career for many.
I wonder if they shortened the commitment to 5 or 6 years if they'd get more takers. I'm pretty sure it used to be 5 years and I'm not sure when they upped it to wings + 10.
Of course, the USAF will say (and have said) that's too short to get people fully trained for some types of flying...but they did it before...so why not now ?
If people wouldn't have to make such a long commitment before they were able move on to a civilian flying career, more people might be interested. Just a thought...
Of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it (maybe even less) but we often hear that the cost of flight training is prohibitive and a barrier to a pilot career for many.
I wonder if they shortened the commitment to 5 or 6 years if they'd get more takers. I'm pretty sure it used to be 5 years and I'm not sure when they upped it to wings + 10.
Of course, the USAF will say (and have said) that's too short to get people fully trained for some types of flying...but they did it before...so why not now ?
If people wouldn't have to make such a long commitment before they were able move on to a civilian flying career, more people might be interested. Just a thought...
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 1
From: Mare Nostrum
A decade ago during the economic crisis, when I was in the Air Force, there were many pilots who said that they would never work for the airlines. Many opted to stay for 20 years or beyond, and quite a few looked for government jobs or contract jobs, often times outside of flying after their stint in the Air Force. Now that market forces have changed, and the airlines look appealing, the Air Force QOL just does not match. Those same airline naysayers are at the airlines. I am not sure that the Air Force could do much apart from offer flying only tracks, more pay, more days off and QOL improvements, but they really can't compete with the QOL and money that a major airline career now offers in the US. Another economic downturn could change things overnight though.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Here
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Below Escape Velocity
QOL is an enormous factor.
The finest tent technology, telecommunications setups, and ersatz American kitsch at an overseas base doesn't overcome the simple geographical fact that you're in the sandbox and your family is stateside.
The airline life is simply superior for these pilots.
Also, paying a drone operator is cheaper.
The finest tent technology, telecommunications setups, and ersatz American kitsch at an overseas base doesn't overcome the simple geographical fact that you're in the sandbox and your family is stateside.
The airline life is simply superior for these pilots.
Also, paying a drone operator is cheaper.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
The Navy is taking a run at the attrition problem:
https://www.aviationpros.com/news/12...tention-crisis
https://www.aviationpros.com/news/12...tention-crisis
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Well, the money idea isn't working all that well:
“Mobility pilots are declining aviation retention bonuses in alarming numbers, despite the the Air Force’s attempt to keep them in uniform with an infusion of cash.”
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...k-up-slightly/
“Mobility pilots are declining aviation retention bonuses in alarming numbers, despite the the Air Force’s attempt to keep them in uniform with an infusion of cash.”
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...k-up-slightly/
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
From: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Looks like the USAF has run out of ideas to retain pilots. So, they've turned to amorphous HR gibberish to describe the issue and propose a "solution"...based on...gibberish. "...work beyond the fringes of the problem.“ ? Really ?:
“Any solution to the pilot retention problem needs to focus on morale, not money.”
“Rand evidently views the personnel system as a challenge too daunting to tackle.”
“It is time for the Air Force to work beyond the fringes of the problem.“
https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinio...sses-the-mark/
“Any solution to the pilot retention problem needs to focus on morale, not money.”
“Rand evidently views the personnel system as a challenge too daunting to tackle.”
“It is time for the Air Force to work beyond the fringes of the problem.“
https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinio...sses-the-mark/
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Yep, I guess you're right about that. However, the retention stats appearing in quite a few articles on the subject (and coming from USAF sources) appear to support the allegation that the retention efforts are falling short.
If lifestyle changes are enough to stem the manpower loss, that remains to be seen...if such changes are made or even can be made. A major airline career is a real siren song.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
From: Alaska, PNG, etc.
No argument that whatever they're doing, doesn't seem to be fixing the problem.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
They're hangin' in there...giving it the old college try:
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ck-in-the-air/
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ck-in-the-air/
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,563
Likes: 953
From: Aus
They could try by opening up the cockpit to folks with only high school education, rather than the degree currently required. It does work, my course (foreigner) did their training with the USN in Pensacola, all only had a high school education, at least one had just finished high school upon entry, and quite a number received the "Student of the Week" award. One went on some years later, with his high school education, to successfully complete the USN test pilot course at Pax River. Of the forty or so students involved no one failed, one dropped out voluntarily and one given the heave ho due personal issues with our national senior officer. Lad refused to give up his off duty skydiving activities.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 1
From: Mare Nostrum
They could try by opening up the cockpit to folks with only high school education, rather than the degree currently required. It does work, my course (foreigner) did their training with the USN in Pensacola, all only had a high school education, at least one had just finished high school upon entry, and quite a number received the "Student of the Week" award. One went on some years later, with his high school education, to successfully complete the USN test pilot course at Pax River. Of the forty or so students involved no one failed, one dropped out voluntarily and one given the heave ho due personal issues with our national senior officer. Lad refused to give up his off duty skydiving activities.
Right now, the problem is keeping talented officers in the military who are already rated pilots. I think that only an economic downturn combined with airline hiring coming to a halt could save the USAF staffing problem. I remember back in 2009, many Air Force Pilots were saying that they would never work for the airlines and that they would rather do a government job or a contractor job after retiring. Conditions have changed and people see the different in QOL and $$$.
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,563
Likes: 953
From: Aus
Not suggesting they be WO's, saying remove the requirement for a degree so they cast a wider net. You don't need a degree to occupy a cockpit, it's jokingly said in airline conversation all you need to know maths wise is your three times table. Young lad I know in the Navy just graduated with his wings, high school education, dux of his course, and given the offer to swap to the Air Force with the promise of F-18 if he does as an inducement, but he wants to fly choppers, so staying Navy. Flown with many a high school educated US Army WO and only one out of the lot I would have torn the wings from, needed to have the fact that Daddy was a Colonel knocked out of him.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Sometime in recent memory, the USAF explored this idea by running a handful of enlisted through UPT as some kind of experiment; it was reported in one of the Air Force Times articles. Then IIRC, decided against doing that as a solution to their headhunting woes. If they don't intend doing more of that, why do it in the first place ?