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Just for clarity, is the new 3 days off ‘trial’ going to apply after all long haul trips or only 3 day trips?
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Originally Posted by steview082
(Post 11931478)
Just for clarity, is the new 3 days off ‘trial’ going to apply after all long haul trips or only 3 day trips?
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Any more info on the proposed changes to pay scales and short haul lifestyle?
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All long haul trips of 3 days duration or longer.
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Originally Posted by GS-Alpha
(Post 11931193)
As a junior pilot, you’re likely to be getting lower credit 3 day trips, but those trips will have 3 days off after each one. You’ll be able to swap to any 4 day higher credit trips in opentime that you like, if they cover the days of your trip plus another day (either at the start or end). You would be giving yourself just 2 days off but in this way, I think junior pilots will actually be able to create themselves some quite nice rosters post roster production (as long as they keep an eye on EOT and are quick in trading, because lots of people will be doing this in my opinion). It may well be that in order to get them, you’ll have to just offset TASS and therefore not get paid anything extras, but you’ll be able to improve the quality/variety of your trips. (This is all just my prediction of how things are going to go, because we don’t actually start the new rule-set until October).
Perhaps by picking up OT you will eventually waive your right to the 3 days, but if they’re being put in place to fight fatigue it’s a bit much to then start going against it. It’ll be interesting to see what the final outcome is. |
There is no need for more meat on the bones because it’s already there within bidline rules.
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Originally Posted by DuctOvht
(Post 11931687)
Interesting you read it that way, I didn’t. I’m not sure they’ve put meat on the bones other than to say ‘all LH trips of 3 days or more duration will generate 3 days off’. Have they said anything more about that, that I’ve missed? If not then my take is you would still be entitled to 3 days off after the trip you’ve picked up from OT in your scenario.
Perhaps by picking up OT you will eventually waive your right to the 3 days, but if they’re being put in place to fight fatigue it’s a bit much to then start going against it. It’ll be interesting to see what the final outcome is. I’m sure BALPA have already stated that the 3 day MBTR can be waived at roster bidding stage if desired. I think it’s largely being put in place for the benefit of the guys on the 777. |
Originally Posted by FACoff
(Post 11931712)
If you swap a 3 day trip to a 4 day trip, thereby giving yourself 2 days off instead of 3, that’s entirely your decision. To then demand 3 days off after the overtime you’ve picked up would be quite comical to say the least.
I’m sure BALPA have already stated that the 3 day MBTR can be waived at roster bidding stage if desired. I think it’s largely being put in place for the benefit of the guys on the 777. GS-Alpha Obviously I’m not talking about things currently, but the confirmed changes coming in October. It’s only 2 months away, well after any of these potential recruits have joined. All we’ve seen thus far is that any Longhaul trip 3 days or longer will generate 3 days off. Taken at face value that would suggest that if you swap a 3 day trip for a 4 day trip in OT you will still get 3 days off. There must be more to come or that would potentially end up clashing out trips left right and centre which I’m sure isn’t the intent of the new rule. I’m guessing it will be something like you waive the rule should you wish to pick up overtime but as it stands, unless I’ve missed something, we don’t actually know how this will work. |
Originally Posted by DuctOvht
(Post 11931747)
Not just the 777! My point is that we don’t know, because it hasn’t been said. Logically I’d 100% agree but until it’s official anything could happen. re bidding, that’s my understanding as well.
GS-Alpha Obviously I’m not talking about things currently, but the confirmed changes coming in October. It’s only 2 months away, well after any of these potential recruits have joined. All we’ve seen thus far is that any Longhaul 3 day trip 3 days or longer will generate 3 days off. Taken at face value that would suggest that if you swap a 3 day trip for a 4 day trip in OT you will still get 3 days off. There must be more to come or that would potentially end up clashing out trips left right and centre which I’m sure isn’t the intent of the new rule. I’m guessing it will be something like you waive the rule should you wish to pick up overtime but as it stands, unless I’ve missed something, we don’t actually know how this will work. |
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha
(Post 11931585)
All long haul trips of 3 days duration or longer.
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Originally Posted by Plastic787
(Post 11931765)
Wasn’t “all of them” clear enough? Unless you’re that into pedantry to include a 2 day TLV that isn’t even in the bid pack at the moment or daylight 2 day JFK that a junior pilot will not be getting a sniff of for a number of years. I think to satisfy the premise of the question of a potential new joiner all of them was accurate enough ;)
Is there a separate function for opting out of union protections on days off to generate back to back trips (0LN variety) that would keep your 3 days off protection for the rest of the roster? Two crew low credit trips don’t seem so bad with a guaranteed three days off afterwards, especially those with minimal time difference and a day flight home (Middle East etc). I assume JED/RUH/DOH are currently fairly low seniority destinations? |
No it wasn’t enough. Just as saying all trips will generate 3 days off is inaccurate too. That is not the wording, and wording is everything when it comes to bidline rules. Hence why there is no ambiguity over what will be allowed with regards to trading with EOT either.
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Jesus Christ I think what the guy is after is how many days off am I going to get after trips? For the vast majority of the time (going forward) it’s going to be three days. Which answers the question well enough without urinating all over and undermining one of your colleagues already given answers with your pedantry. He’s got years to learn bidline rules the nuts and bolts were taken care of. Great example of the level of Asperger’s amongst an unfortunate number of BA skippers for the potential new joiner though.
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Hilarious response.
Years to learn bidline rules? My advice to any new joiner - learn the ins and outs of bidline rules and JSS as quickly as you possibly can, and you’ll increase your apparent seniority level by a good 30% because everyone else will be thinking they’ve got years to learn these things. It appears some will consider it pedantry and Asperger’s, but they’re just jealous that you're getting significantly better rosters and pay despite being of similar seniority to you. |
Enough said
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Primarily to those of you who went longhaul FO with relatively low hours, did you feel it impeded your professional development in some ways?
With 1500h / 2 years of being paid to fly, I can’t help but think I haven’t seen a lot, and restricting myself to 3 or 4 approaches and landings a month in a heavy would slow my progress compared to life on the small bus. |
I think that is a fair thought. You will get much more exposure to flying by going to do a few more years on short haul. Depending on lots of factors, I would be minded to get a good few thousand hours short haul before going to long haul. Although you can always move back!
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What difference does it make? With the seniority clock ticking and nobody knowing when the next downturn will be, that could be an expensive decision.
There is still a hell of a lot of learning that will have to be done, some of it familiar, a hell of a lot of it won’t be though. Plus, BA at least trust you to truly be PF from blocks off to blocks on, to taxi (not something 737, ATR, dash 8 guys got to do), they trust you enough to manage the throttles throughout the takeoff roll etc. They treat you like an adult and give you responsibility that many short haul ops don’t. So yes the hands on landings and approaches will decrease, but you’ll get a lot more out of it in other ways and learn about certain ops and things you’ve never seen before. Besides, if you like landing that much, bid for the 2 crew trips, there are no shortage and you’ll always get a landing. |
Originally Posted by halbeir
(Post 11931873)
Primarily to those of you who went longhaul FO with relatively low hours, did you feel it impeded your professional development in some ways?
With 1500h / 2 years of being paid to fly, I can’t help but think I haven’t seen a lot, and restricting myself to 3 or 4 approaches and landings a month in a heavy would slow my progress compared to life on the small bus. |
777 lgw
How Junior do 777 LGW flights tends to go?
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