Interesting reading. Having recently jumped ship from EZY too, these thoughts aren't too far from my own.

Things to take into account. Many rosters are self inflicted - lots of guys appear to utterly shaft themselves for money, to the point of doing 7/1/7 as you say - that is THEIR choice. The company also appear to acknowledge that 320 FOs are working exceptionally hard at the moment, and appear to be actively trying to rectify that (recruitment/captain RHS). I also gather they are hoping to eliminate the daily aircraft swaps that seem to pointlessly add so much duty time to our day.

All that said, it's swings and roundabouts - BA is by no means the utopia I'd hoped it would be. Is it better than EZY? Apparently most seem to think so, or they'd be on their way back.

What is not so often said is why such numbers leave EZY for BA - and for the most part it's the 75% EZY contract. The combination of training debt and comically poor EZY money appears to be enough to push many an FO off to BA, when perhaps they would rather stay at EZY if it was financially viable. The flip side of course, is that junior BA captains are then disgustingly cheap and many I've flown with are now very interested in the current EZY offering.

EZY-BA-EZY could soon be a standard career route it seems.

I think the stressors on modern day pilots who have come to the industry in the last 5 years is Debt, Get a Job, Debt, Command, Lifestyle, Lifestyle, Lifestyle. The lifestyle one is the only way you'll literally survive a career in aviation in the 21st. century.

All of that sounds great but you need a reason to stay positive; You can't merely stay positive for the sake of staying positive. When I started flying the entire last sentence applied fully to my job, but now it is all about managing fatigue, keeping the family together and trying not to get screwed over too much by your employer... In fact I've actively discouraged my own son from pursuing a paid career in aviation because at this point I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Remember me telling you this before you sign your life away on a student loan for pilot training; The old days are GONE.

It shouldn't be that hard to understand. I've seen, listened to and read about a lot of pop stars who slaved for stardom only to find that the glitter wasn't so great after a period of time. Same is true of aviation, I still love flying but the adulation of the crowd.... sorry the disruption of normal family life becomes extremely onerous after a while, so many (not all) end up either being captured by the money and turning bitter or striving for a work/life balance involving PT. thankfully most airlines are getting their heads right about PT as we are expensive assets to lose.

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what to do, as every individual has different circumstances, but for me, sticking with EZY is the way to go.

I became a pilot because I love flying. The flying I do at EZY can be hard work, but also incredibly challenging and rewarding. When the conditions are appropriate and my colleague is sat next to me, I am able to take all the automation out, FDs off, ATHR off, and fly it like a Seneca again. I found IR training too hard to particularly enjoy flying raw data non-precision approaches. Now I find them very enjoyable, and a good healthy stretch of the technical, non-technical and handling skills.
A raw data manual thrust SID out of one of the Greek Islands, or a visual into Valencia is thoroughly enjoyable if you're moderately competent with the aircraft (although many fellow pilots, at EZY and elsewhere, are sometimes a bit too nervous to do things like that, but the company has a sensible automation policy that allows, and when appropriate, encourages it)

However I became a commercial pilot in my early 20s when I was young, free and single. I had nobody else to worry about other than myself. That is no longer the case, I'm in my 30s, and have wifey and kids, plus live much much closer to my elderly grandparents than my parents do (30 mins vs 4-5 hours). Being home nearly every night is important to me, and to the missus and the little ones. There are a few scheduled night-stops out of LGW, only 3 currently (LIN, MAD & INV), with an early and a late rotation. Unscheduled night-stops are rare (only 2 in the last 5 years, one due to missing a slot and therefore exceeding 2 hours of discretion before pushback, the other due to AOG down route in a non-base). There are out-of-base trips to cover annual leave in smaller bases, or where they've had crew leave for new pastures, but these are not too common. Many captains commute (and stay in the airport hotel) so are happy to pick up trips like that and save on their hotel bills.

We have good scheduling and rostering agreements in the UK, things like no pre-6am starts on Day 1 of a block, an ability to refuse (or accept, for a cash compensation) short notice disruption changes (starting/finishing more than 2 hours earlier/later, short notice night-stops), total ability to refuse to work into days off (so much as getting off the plane and going home, flights have been cancelled as a result but days off are days OFF, however the payment for working into days off could and should be a bit better) and fatigue mitigation such as transition control, and an unchallenging fatigue reporting system. Never have I had to justify calling in fatigued, or offloading myself as fatigued, or where commanders discretion has been refused, or used to reduce FDP/increase rest.

The pay is pretty great actually. The problem is the UK taxation of that pay.
I don't think anybody can earn £105k basic, plus up to 15% loyalty, plus annual performance bonus, plus £15k+ sector pay, plus 2 weeks/£3000 tax-free performance shares, and say they don't earn enough.
But many people are maxing out their pension contributions to £40k including the company's 7%, just to try get under the £100k mark and avoid that 62% taxation band. Already many are looking to 75% or 50% part time, to reduce their tax as much as improve their lifestyle. If/when the government reduce the 40% pension tax relief I can see even more part time requests coming in.
Then theres the company share schemes... BAYE were you can buy £1800 shares a year and the company will match it (up to £1500). Or SAYE where you save an amount up to £300 a month, for 3 years, and get to buy the shares at the original 20% discounted offer price, or at worst, take all your money back. A zero-risk savings, worst case you get 0% return on it, best case, more than double in 3 years.


The trick with EZY is to not get stressed and worked up by things you can't control. Summer at Gatwick is a $hitshow. Everything turns to brown stuff. But you can't help the ground handling problems, you have no control over it. So you don't worry too much, you control what you can. You exercise discretion, or you don't. You work into a day off, or you refuse. If your duty is 4 hours late, then your report is delayed the next day. If you're not fit for it then you go FTGD. As long as you treat a working day as a working day and don't make any plans that can't be cancelled last minute, then you don't get too upset by it all.

I hear many of the FRV guys have nearly all their weekends off as well. Fixed pattern with the Preference Bidding we can bid for earlies or lates. 2 sectors or 4. Nightstops or not. The random roster guys can also bid for particular days off, ie for a birthday or wedding, or weekend away etc.



For those of us who aren't that bothered by long haul (I get severely bored on a long SH sector, Greek Islands, Turkey, Cyprus, Egypt etc if my colleague is not especially chatty) and dread the thought of an 8+ hour flight, or some of the extra long haul stuff, and that like being in their own bed nearly every night, and like knowing NOW that they're going to be off on Saturday 25th September 2021 for their 20th wedding anniversary party or whatever, or the kids sports day/school play/etc, then EZY is probably one of the best.

Things could definitely be better. But they are a damn sight worse in some other LCCs.
The grass is always greener. Except when it isn't.

The 75% is a travesty on EZY FOs, and until very recently, the company were recruiting DEFOs onto 100% whilst "loyal" FOs were stuck on 75% (which is 100% summer, 50% winter roster) because there were "no 100% positions available" for them to upgrade.

IE the company were screwing over the FOs who joined them as cadets on a terrible contract, and knowing the contract was so bad that nobody would accept it for Direct Entry, were offering the full time contract to new experienced pilots.

I believe now BALPA are forcing them to do something about all that, but not sure what or how long it'll take.



EZY is a great company to work at eventually, but the first few years are really $hit because of the contracts and general distain and contempt for their FOs. In the smaller and cheaper bases it may not be such a problem.
In & around the London bases, the early years FO contracts really doesn't pay very well compared to the rest of the UK airline market.

Regarding joining EZY as an FO. With a high level of experience you’d join the airline as a SFO into the UK at least, but yes it looks like being on 75% contracts.

Will they consider very experienced heavy experienced military guys straight into LHS?

Dct_Mopas - The UK contracts are not guaranteed to be SFO contracts, I know it has been given some in 2017, but generally the direct entry FO's for UK contract start as Second Officer, 2 years as First Officer before becoming SFO.
I know prior to 2017 and part of 2017 it was like this, I don't know how 2018 looks, but I believe that is the general progression for FO's. The caveat is that you can get your command before becoming SFO.

As for the debate BA vs LoCo's, I think it depends what you want in life and what stage you are at in life.
BA, sure you can fly many different aircraft etc., but in the end after a while it's not the time you spend at work that creates the greatest value you in your life, it's the time you spend with loved ones and family. Finding the balance between work and lifestyle is the main thing.
I think many join BA based on old thoughts of the prestige of flying for a flag carrier, however all the great advantages of working for flag carriers are slowly disappearing.
If you join BA first SH, you are living from a suitcase, from hotel to hotel. You are just living to work the next day. Sure if you are young and have no commitments, children / family etc. you probably don't mind this lifestyle. However having lived the hotel life over 10 years myself, I can assure you there is only so much you can take before it becomes just another day to get trough.

Some say you should embrace the lifestyle, and discover new parts of the world, sure sounds nice, but I rather discover new parts of the world with loved ones, than alone - as the experience becomes hollow and empty not to have someone to share the memories with.

Similar you than go to long haul, destinations all over the world, sure excitement in the start, stopover in exotic countries, enjoying night life in your downtime, again it's single persons lifestyle. You hardly ever home, if you have children you will miss 90% of the things in their lives, if you are married or in a relationship, how do you expect to maintain this when you are constantly away?

I have a friend working Long Haul, he has dated a few Cabin Crew, and I told him he should find someone not in aviation to settle down with, but he explains how can he find someone, when he is always away.
Having friends, and having met loads of aircrews in many of my travels around the world, I "know the lifestyle" - and for most it ends in multiple divorces and little or not much contact with your own children.

Now some people in their 20s and early 30's, might not yet appreciate this aspect in life, and are still blinded by the chance to fly the A380 or Dreamliner.

However for me personally after commuting for many years by flight abroad, when I landed my first job back in the UK, it was the biggest life changer ever in my life. When I everyday finished duty and knew that in not long time I would be home with my loved ones, in my own bed, and could actually use my off time to something useful and meaningful instead of just sitting in a hotel room or apartment and wasting time, waiting for time until I could get home. It would go days, some time weeks being away, just to get home for 2 days before had to leave again.

That feeling to be home everyday is worth more than all the money in the world. I have been offered work trough friends in the far east where I could make 4 - 5 times what I make now, and probably work half of what I am working now, but considering the massive commute and time away, and all what I would miss I would never consider doing this.

In the end it all comes down to what you value most in your own life, it's a personal choice.
When old people are asked on question, what in life do you wish you had done more, spent more time doing, the ONE ANSWER, NEVER given, is "I wish I had spent more time at work"

That's the reason I would NEVER work for BA, it's just not for me and what I value in life. But thank god we are not all the same, because I like to go on holiday with my family to those destinations that Long Haul pilots fly, but I want to go there to enjoy with family and friends, and not sit there alone staring at the sun (and any temptations that might come my way because I am feeling lonely) And what many forget, is that their partner/wife might also be feeling lonely at home, so who knows who does what. ( based on true stories told by few long haul pilots I know)

REXBANNER - Your observation of Norwegian is very wrong, they just posted large profits in their 2.nd financial quarter, where they was expected to make losses. So not sure where you getting all misinformation from, furthermore if going so bad, why would IAG be looking to buy them?

They have also started a recruitment drive for RYR pilots being shafted in DUB, and trust me, the Norwegian passenger experience at least on the flights I have had with them, is just as good if not better than BA. (Newer aircraft)
"Join Norwegian's expanding Dublin base to fly on our 737s in a European and transatlantic operation.

Norwegian offers local contracts, a group wide master seniority list for upgrades and base biddings, and the possibility to transfer between our fleets (at present we fly Boeing 737s and 787s).

Register your application on careers.norwegian.com. We will have screening days available in August, with starting dates later this year."

I wasn't intending to reply to this thread, but to shine a slightly more positive light.. I moved a few years ago from one of the LCC to BA (long haul) and never regretted it for a second. Surely, there are things that could be improved, but my lifestyle is so much better than it used to be. I actually find I have more quality time at home than I ever had before whilst flying low cost and the perspective of having no change for the next X amount of years was just not for me. Of course I had to take a pay cut, but in the long run that will even out. I know 2 other guys who made the same move and they don't regret their move either. I do sometimes wonder if the guys who actually enjoy BA would post here as much as the people who don't - I guess they possibly spend less time on a forum like this, but this is just an assumption of course :).

Yes I completely understand that RexBanner and I am in no position to comment on the shorthaul / Heathrow lifestyle from that perspective. I fully understand that that's a completely different world and it must be quite frustrating at times. However, earlier in this thread the long haul lifestyle in BA was discussed as well, hence my post to give a slightly more positive view.

It's completely wrong to suggest you can't have a good home life at BA.

For starters I spend FAR more time with my family than most people who work normal 9-5 (read 8-6) jobs. Anyone who works in the City is lucky to see their children at all during the week. At least that is certainly true for the people I know who are travelling out to the commuter belt every day.

Specifically in relation to easyJet vs BA, I would question the amount of "quality time" you are getting at home on a block of work at easyJet and therefore the relevance of being home every night. When I did it (at LGW) I remember a) not being able to make any plans for downtime on "days on" anyway because my roster would always change and b) being close to useless after coming home off early duties anyway. I accept it might be better at regional bases.

Let's be honest, whether it is coming home at 2am and crawling into bed when everyone else is asleep already, coming home at 2pm and falling asleep on the sofa, or being 4000 miles away in a hotel, the life of an airline pilot has it's challenges from a family perspective. It's just which of these challenges you find easiest to live with that matters.

Hi guys,

reviving a fairly old thread now but trying to find out how peeps who have jumped BA to EZY are finding it? I am RHS A320 LHR and finding it not what I hoped for!

I am in the EZY hold pool now for a (hopefully) SFO LTN placement (they seemed quite certain I would be OK with that). I am not interested in Long haul (need to be at home as often as poss, disabled child at home), Inefficiency really winds me up and 1:15 drive each way is starting to aggravate an old back injury (LTN is only 25 mins away).

So questions wise,
1. Can EZY FO's really not park?! seems odd to me!
2. Can FO's call stop? surprised me during the sim check when the skipper took over the thrust levers on TO, hadn't seen that coming.
3. Is the atmosphere at Easy as relaxed as it seemed during the recruitment day?
4. How often do trips change on the roster? as a general rule I don't mind what I do on a particular day at work but I would like to know when i'm not working!
5. Hows LTN as a base?
6. Any other up to date factors which may influence my decision to take/ not take them up on an offer?

I have spoken to a few peeps and read the thread, just have this nagging doubt in the back of my head that going BA to EZY shouldn't make sense, but the evidence doesn't support it.

hope all well

I'm hearing of several colleagues who left to BA who are regretting it and wanting to come back. Some got SH LGW, some got SH LHR, some got DEP LH. At least one of each wants to come back to EZY... I'd say up to 1/3 are not happy with their move!