Captplay...
 

...good post...
What's the problem with guys worried about the unfavourable comments about NAI here?:ugh:

Unless they are management trolls, I have no idea. I would be happy to have a heads-up and avoid joining a new company on the false premise of them being the "good employer" they tried to convince me at interview. . . . still, it seems you cannot help those who do not want to be helped .

I see the same denials, but less often, on various Emirates threads, but NAS does seem to still attract quite a degree of misplaced loyalty . . . particularly it seems from those whom they haven't . . .yet . . employed, none so blind as those who will not see :rolleyes:

Captainplaystation brings forward alot of honest and up to date information and is contributing greatly to this forum for people to make educated decisions. He isn't out to slander.

Is it true that you have to pay your own ticket, accomodation, meal when attending the interviews? I heard from a couple of guys who were bonded and sacked during the low-season that they still had to pay money to the company despite having families to feed and no salary, is there any truth to this? did they have to pay Norwegian directly or was it the contract company?

Obsession, anything better to do, revenge, bitterness, not having a life, something productive – are all witless and desperate terms used by persons who, apparently, are unable to refute the facts of Norwegian’s abhorrent regime, nor contribute to the thread in any informative way, other than failed insult and spectacularly failed censorship by intimidation.

Not surprisingly, these types are the first to take advantage of any benefits obtained by others attempting to provoke positive change. Such life forms may also be found crawling around the airline’s management orifices on their days off or at any other opportunity, seeking to improve only their own circumstances. However, these sycophants do serve one useful function, by ensuring the thread remains active and providing an opportunity for information to be added and viewed. I will oblige;

An Irish MP has now joined the Irish Airline Pilots Association, IALPA, in calling for the DoT to deny “Ireland based” Norwegian Air International, NAI, a US permit. The Irish Times reports that Clare Daly alleges Norwegian Air Shuttle has specifically set up the Irish subsidiary to circumvent Norway’s labor laws:-

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...oute-1.2666986

Norwegian responds that staff are "employed" under the labor laws of the country where they are based. They conveniently neglect to state there are no employment laws between agency staff and Norwegian (the real employer, who controls their working life). What about OSM? I hear you shout. Being employed by OSM does not effect “permanent employment” or any “employment” with the respective Norwegian Group airline. OSM is merely a fractional subsidiary of the Norwegian Group. OSM also employs workers in the maritime industry, as their company name, Orient Ship Management, implies. The same "employment" criteria may be applied to Rishworth's broom cupboard, London affiliate. It is reported in the article that Norwegian believes anyone objecting to their labor model has “chosen to swim against the tide of industry”.

Meanwhile, today in Norway, the labor union PARAT is pursuing the Norwegian Group in an Oslo area court, seeking a ruling that Norwegian is indeed the real employer. The action stems from the strike in 2015 during which Norwegian reorganized the airline and “reassigned” pilots and cabin crew to various (divide and conquer) subsidiaries:-

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/naringsliv/...et-mener-parat

Unfortunately, Norwegian’s circumvention labor model may prevail and they may get their US permit. The US wants a submarine base in Tromso and “it must be treated politically”:-

http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/05/28/n...tikk/44371919/

If you read the post I put on , rather than getting very excited and calling me deluded, you will see I ask the question why these two are so obsessed with Norwegian. I don't refute or argue in that post. I have my own opinion on things going on in the company gained not simply through the subjective views of this site. And the idea that people are making career choices based off an anonymous site is a little egotistical. It is a tool, but hardly an objective one. So perhaps when they've climbed off their steeds, one or other could answer why they are so obsessed and if it is that one or other has been previously employed by Norwegian, then maybe the advice is not quite so "philanthropic".... ??? And I'm certainly not a management troll !!! Just had enough of whingers.

And for the record, I'm a fully paid up member of Balpa, supporting them in as much as they can do, so no, not trying to ride any coat-tails of pioneering revolutionaries such as yourselves, effecting change from an anonymous website, that ultimately is all talk.

I doubt anyone is really interested about why they are "obsessed". It's not particularly useful information and is irrelevant to the thread.

and we are still waiting............. No rebuttal of the points made. Just an attack on those making them. I have absolutely no vested interest at this point (past or present) in NAS but I do worry about their impact on the rest of the industry so I am interested in the "defence".

Chesty Morgan, useful or not, I feel I have to post, if for no other reason than to wake the feckwits up that are willing to sign for the woeful terms on offer. . . for the avoidance of doubt, this is a wide body/longhaul Command paying EuroLoCo (or less) conditions, don't these guys need to be reminded to wake up ? I think they do . . . . and, we won't even mention all the other niceties of the NLH/NAS/OSM/NAI operation, for the 787, the package offered tells you all you need to know. . . . .

Norwegian LH will provide a flight too and from the interviews. Wether you are US Europe or out East , they will get you on a flight that suits you. You dont even have to return to the point of departure.
Everything else you pay for, but not the simulator lol.

ps before anyone PMs me , I did not attent the assesment in Oslo, don't need to spend 20 days away each month. Enjoy.

So never worked for Norwegian Capt Xbox ? 🤔

Did you actually read post #642, or that was too much effort before sticking your oar in again. . . . join if you wish, good luck with it, I will take great pleasure in saying "told you so" when you discover what you have gotten yourself into, or maybe you will "fit" just fine . . . . a certain "type" seems to. . . . . . all depends on the handshake, it seems :rolleyes:

CaptPS, for clarity I believe the information you post is useful and, I'm sure, is appreciated by most people who read it.

What I think isn't useful is the answer to crossbones' question of why you are "obsessed". It should be obvious to most of us with basic reading ability why you post and you shouldn't need to explain yourself.

It wasn't a dig at you.:ok:

Cheers :ok: sorry, my bad, reread it with revised "expectations" of what you said, and see your intention clearly.

Google translated from a Swedish pilot forum





"In Norwegian Longhaul there was taken an initiative just over a year ago to start a pilot association, NLHPA. 2/3 of pilots joined and the intention was to NLHPA would convey the views of pilots for the next move to OSM contracts.
Three pilots volunteered to represent NLHPA in this discussion. Parties, OSM, NLH and NLHPA met once, and there were NLHPA know that it had any bargaining and thus could meeting ends almost immediately. OSM contract and its terms were dictated by Norwegian and was not negotiable. Take it or leave it.
Officially there is freedom of association in NLH but the truth is quite different.
Of the three pilots who were selected to represent their colleagues, two of them a week ago received an email by management explaining that their 3-year contract which expires at the end of 2016 will not be renewed. The third representative stopped by the free will of a job at Virgin. Reason for this early notification was in accordance with the line that you want to give them plenty of time to find a new employer. Very thoughtful.
A pure coincidence that their contract is not renewed? Three experienced pilots out of the door while NLH struggling to find qualified pilots for future expansion. Hardly!!
There is no doubt that NLH in this way wants to make an example for the other pilots. Legally or may not judge someone else but it is quite clear that NLH trying to screw the clock back to the 1920s.
The development is frightening and affects us all. Where the aircraft is coming when no longer dare express deficiencies or report, I do not think about.
Flights safe! "

Crossbones, if you look through Captplaystations past, you'll see he has been very objective and balanced about not only Norwegian but also other past employers, posting up factual, balanced and detailed information while most others have posted far more emotionally. There is no obsession with Norwegian. So, that begs the question, why are you so obsessed with attacking him?

I guess then you cannot defend the indefensible.

I think the thing is, people who are bitter about a former employer ( or even a company they were never employed by ) are hardly likely to give a balanced view .

For a real low down on how it is in NLH long haul, we need a current, serving pilot.

And their silence, tells its own story . . . . . .

It is unlikely the “low down” will be forthcoming from a current pilot serving in an oppressive regime where criticism, real or perceived, is crushed. Pilots and cabin crews have been pursued and terminated for making comments and submitting reports with which the upper echelons of the Fornebue rats nest disagree. Pilots are even afraid to respond to the many requests on this thread for roster information.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/08/09/n...else/40528734/

During the NAI US permit application, Norwegian and proponents have repeatedly referred to objections against their atypical labor model and its adverse affects on safety, labor rights and labor principles, as grossly inaccurate and slanderous. However, no media outlet, airline, organization, union, association, group or person has been pursued for defamation. The smiling rock ape did threaten to sue a homeless, penniless, single mother for “bad public relations” after she was terminated from her job as 787 flight attendant following a safety incident in JFK, and the subsequent illegal flight across the Atlantic. Interestingly, the Captain involved in the incident had previously submitted a 2-page letter to the DoT in support of the NAI permit application and was not terminated. Once again, Norwegian did not conduct a “balanced” investigation before summarily terminating agency crew.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2015/03/03/n...kjos/37978024/

A previous post refers to agency pilots who attempted good faith negotiations with Norwegian. Subsequently, their contracts were not renewed. During the 2015 strike Norwegian dissolved the unionized single Scandinavian group and resurrected it into separate divisions. Are these strategic moves designed to strengthen or weaken the influence of the pilot group in their efforts to improve their conditions?

Norwegian’s atypical labor model removes their obligation to negotiate with agency employed pilots and cabin crew. The employer agency is entirely responsible to administer the set terms and conditions. For one particular group this is about to change. Norwegian’s non-union pilot association/group should take note and study a recent legal ruling:-

Norwegian’s 787 Cabin Crew Association, NCCA, has received a ruling by the National Mediation Board, NMB. The Board found that Norwegian and OSM are joint employers. The cabin crew may now vote to form a representative labor union (as opposed to a powerless association/group). Norwegian and OSM must provide the NMB with a list of eligible voters. The NCCA application, NMB investigation into the Norwegian Group/OSM service provider relationship, and ruling, is available at link:-

https://storage.googleapis.com/dakot...171.1464013583

Upon receipt of the NMB ruling, in typical rock ape style, OSM sent the cabin crew a “notice” on their imminent union ballot. The notice warned cabin crew if they ever went on strike they can be permanently replaced and there would be no guarantee they could return to work when they ended any strike. The notice said the only guarantee is that you will pay union dues and asked, “Knowing this, is collective bargaining worth the risk?”

http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/06/05/n...arat/44433259/

Vegard Einan, the head of Norway labor union PARAT, believes the notice is an attempt to influence employees from joining a union, and in a Scandinavian working life context, is “ethically and morally reprehensible”. This is not the first time attempts have been made to influence Norwegian’s crews in their decision making:-

“Pilots are threatened with losing their jobs if they refuse to transition to OSM”

http://www.dn.no/nyheter/naringsliv/...uttert-til-osm

Norwegian’s pilots and cabin crews may be confident their CEO is 100% behind them.

Would a pilot joining NLH be considered a contractor as with the older RYR style contracts where a good accountant was very important in that many different things can be claimed back against tax due? Or since there is this global crew UK company the position is not considered a contractor type and full tax contributions of 20% & 40% are required?

Any idea from anyone presently inside the company how long to upgrade from RCA to Captain?

I know NLH may not be everyone's cup of tea but for some there is no other option and for others its a step closer to home. Im just looking for some genuine info if anyone has any.

Hi all, Any one with any knowledge what Brexit means to the likes of NLH? Will they be able to continue operating out of London as they do once the UK is fully withdrawn from the EU? Is it an option they would move everything to Dublin and use the Irish AOC which would allow them access to the EU markets etc?

Do they not also have a UK AOC ?? I believe they may

BREXIT... won't effect any legislation for at least 2 years, more likely 5

They would also need 51% UK ownership and British pilots or at least have the right to work in the UK..

BREXIT will certainly affect the Norwegian Air UK (NAUK) US permit application submitted on 11 Dec, 2015. Another protracted application, similar to that by “Ireland based” Norwegian Air International (NAI), will have the effect of delaying expansion plans, as with the Cork/Boston service.

Aftenposten newspaper reports; "The airline Norwegian lost big on the Oslo Stock Exchange Friday" - Link:

Norwegian-aksjonærer tapte en milliard kroner på Brexit - Aftenposten

Would a LGW based Norwegian 787 pilot, confirm the rumor that 20 or more of Norwegian’s LGW based 787 pilots, have very recently tendered their resignations, and that Virgin may be paying the collective balance of their type rating indentured bond?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ssible-405245/

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en...ience/787.html

With the dramatic collapse of Sterling , the UK credit rating and the uk football team I doubt anyone would risk leaving a stable job to join this lot

Direct. It was about 25 with VS maybe needing 20 to 40 more! I don't know with the Brexit thing if they might rethink the next batch!
VS didn't pay any of the bonds off. But with the prospect of being away for 20 days in and out of Scandinavia in your future I would think Virgin LHR base an offer you couldn't turn down.

"Reap what you sew" " Chickens coming home to roost" "What goes around comes around" "Karma Sucks" and no doubt many other other well worn phrases come to mind . . . . . . . So sad for the gnarled old RedNose :mad: hopefully just the beginning of their woes as they pay the price for attempting to rape the worlds long-haul pilots . . . . .

Can anyone working for Norwegian on the 787 please send me a PM. I have a start date and have one or two small questions if any one would be kind enough to answer them. Thanks in advance

You may wish to reconsider your decision.

A filing was made yesterday, that following the result of the UK EU membership referendum;

“[The] DOT should suspend processing of Norwegian Air UK’s [NAUK] application until the post-exit regulatory structure that will pertain to the grant of operating authorizations to UK carriers is determined”.

In a second filing, relating to Norwegian Air International (NAI):

"For the reasons set forth above, and in our prior pleadings, DOT should reverse its tentative conclusion that NAI should be issued a foreign air carrier permit".

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2015-0261-0025

Additionally, former Deputy DOT Secretary, John Porcari, made a public statement regarding Norwegian’s US permit application;

“NAI is requesting to launch a complex international airline operation that at its core challenges explicit provisions of the agreement [Open Skies], in particular those specifically designed to protect high labor standards for crews on both sides of the Atlantic”.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-d-porcari/setting-the-record-straig_b_10704160.html

“This article [Article 17] unambiguously sets out a clear commitment to protect against air services that “undermine” labor standards and the labor related rights and principles contained in the parties respective laws”.

Norwegian can “return” pilots and cabin crew to their agency employer without notice, reason or recourse. Any notice period is with the agency employer, not Norwegian.

Chickens, home, roost.

The US DOT has issued an ‘Order Dismissing Exemption’ of the Norwegian Air UK application. The Order states:

“In these circumstances, the Department does not find that the grant of a temporary exemption to Norwegian UK is appropriate or in the public interest”

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2015-0261-0027

The Seattle Times, previously reporting on the Boeing workers union, International Association of Machinists (IAM), opposition to Norwegian, reports;

“U.S. delivers blow to Norwegian’s expansion plans”

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/us-delivers-blow-to-norwegian-airs-expansion-plans/

The disappointing news has also been reported in the Norway media:

“Brexit can give Norwegian more license trouble in the US”

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/brexit-kan-gi-norwegian-mer-lisens-trobbel-i-usa/60260069

I never expected such a decision. Not bad, not bad at all..... Let's see what happens with the other application.

Mr copy & paste
 

DB

Do you not get tired of copying and pasting the same tiresome post day after day after day ???¿¿¿

It is unfortunately the truth. I will never understand pilots moaning at people who are telling like it is. I don't work for the long haul, but I have experience of the short haul. If I had any idea of what that place was really like 3 years ago, I would never have joined.

Potty Noodle Horn;
Apparently, you are distressed after news of yet another rejection of Norwegian’s abhorrent labor model. Perhaps you can provide a substantive rebuttal in their support. However, you may wish to review one of your previous efforts on this thread (#184), copied and pasted below;

POT NOODLE HORN , it is precisely because the industry has too many little "can do" people unable to see beyond their own sphincter that NAS long haul, & the industry in general , is in the mess it is in.

If you take the trouble to read DB's posts you will see that he has documented an ongoing deterioration in this industry & a (fortunately ) ongoing realisation by the authorities that what is being proposed is not in the spirit of the original agreement with respect to labour/employment standards.

Just because you have managed to accept the pool of venom you are floating around in, doesn't mean that others don't find it abhorrent, & therefore do their best to ensure those contemplating it are aware of what they are letting themselves in for . . . in years to come you may look back on your choice, & your failure to fight for better, & reconsider the long term implications of your apparent apathy.

And so ....
 

Playstation,
I agree with you that it was MY choice to work for NAS LH and I 100% new the situation I was getting into, however my feeling is that this industry died a long time ago and shows no sign or an upwards turn, you might think that my outlook is a little bleake but that's my view.

@DB - you are right, I made the decision to join LH after a lot of thought, however bad it gets there, rosters organization etc I accept the decision I made and don't moan and cry about it or constantly post on here about the ongoing DOT 'problems'
It's a job and for that I'm grateful, there are many out there that I'm sure would like to have my seat !!

Personally I wouldn't class the fact they state the facts as they see them as moaning. In fact if no one started to complain or highlight the things that are going on, things would never improve. In my opinion, that is exactly what companies want. They want their employees to be passive and to think that they can't change anything so there is no point in 'moaning'.

It is a job, and I would rather be employed than unemployed, but that doesn't mean I don't think people should talk about the issues. In my opinion one of the reasons that this industry is so awful is people just accept stuff, because it's better than being unemployed.