There is some truth to the rumours
 

I cam confirm that during the Pilot Careers Live event last Saturday Lindsay Craig announced that for the first time BA would be accepting DEP's to the A380. I personally thought this meant TR applicants from EK for example but I guess not.

The quality of applicant from EK far outstrips that from any regional uk carrier. Why would BA not want to tap into a workforce of rated A380/B777 crews , especially from a competitor?
Even an internal BA candidate from the A320 could not possibly have the experience of a EK A380 sfo? I heard that there are several young, high time
EK captains throwing in their lot to the BA application. Why not, they are rich, by uk standards, and young enough to still have time for command in 3-6 years.

Good luck guys :ok:

Globally

Without going into the nitty gritty, whys and wherefores, associated rumours, allegations and the undoubtedly true tales of woe there certainly have been some problems/course failures associated with conversions from the likes of the 744 to the 380. I know with some degree of certainty that that has led to a degree of reluctance by some to bid for the 380 (most especially from those who have zero previous Airbus experience).

I'd also add that the other factor might be that the other Long Haul Fleets perhaps offer a greater range of destinations and/or variety....at the moment at least it does look like in BA the 380 will always be a small fleet.

Wiggy it does seem like it is starting to cream off some of the best destinations though, not much variety but good in what it does (KSFO, KLAX, KMIA etc). But it's whatever floats your boat I guess.

Rex..As you rightly say it's whatever floats your boat - TBH the KMIA nightstop never floated mine...:8. With a fleet of (?)12 there's plenty of goodies left for the other fleets.

The issue continues to be training capacity. And a delivery schedule for the 787 that is only going to cause problems crewing the fleet.

I'd say this is as good a time as there has ever been to join BA as a DEP onto almost every LH fleet if you have the hours. Frustrating for frozen SH P2s but when the time comes there will be the bonus of having *some* seniority and not starting at the very bottom of the list.

And retirements start again in 2016....

Guys I tried searching for this on the various previous pages and couldn't find it, if I missed it my bad..

Can anyone please tell me if one joins tomorrow on the A380 as FO (or any long haul fleet) what would be the typical net salary per month? Just net figure including sector pay and everything else, in your pocket, evry month..

Would about £4500 be accurate?


Thanks very much

That would be accurate if you are just putting in the basic pension contributions

Hi Guys,

I have a query... I had applied for 'First Officer' back in November which was apparently mainly for the A320 fleet. In light of the new opening for 'Long Haul', would one automatically be considered for that too?

(I am an FO with extensive Boeing long haul experience (B747/B777))

Also, just to float an idea... What is the approx time to command nowadays considering mass retirement and flux in the company at the moment. I can imagine that time to command on the 747/777 is long but what about on a small fleet like the A380 where perhaps not all the existing FOs have the relevant experience for upgrade...

Cheers!

It's always difficult to accurately predict time to LH command, but the short answer - there is no quick way of achieving it. Fleets like the A380 will never be short of command bidders.

If you join now you would have 4000ish pilots ahead of you and the top 1400 or so are senior enough for a LH command with current fleet sizes and planned expansion. In reality very few of that group will retire in any great numbers within the next 15 years or so. And once they have thrown in the towel you will still need to rise at least another 1000 places from your 4000+ starting seniority in joining. I reckon at least 20 years to Long Haul captain if you joined next week, but it really is a guess, Wiggy and others may have better perspective on this.

And bear in mind when the 2011 intake joined most reckoned on maybe 10 years to a LGW SH command and more like 15 for LHR - it turned out to be 4 years for both. But SH really is a different kettle of fish!

I do not know where this myth has come from, there is no mass retirement. The age legislation changed in 2006 which meant that the retirement age changed from 55 to 65. It is not yet 2016 and that means those at the top have been there for nearly 10 years now, the reality BA have seen is that people have stayed on till 65 so we have only seen very limited retirement since 2006. Retirements will start to increase after Oct next year but even then it will not be huge, there is the cadet bulge of the 90s which means that in the top 1000 there are over 700 pilots less than 50 years old. They will stay there for the next 15 years or more. Yes there will be retirements but time to command on LH will be many years. SH is a real variable, and is at the moment less than 5 years - but BA is very dynamic and any global event can change things very quickly.

Dihaz


The current projected numbers from the internal bid show the 380 as being rather popular. Since BA still allows internal transfers I'm afraid fleet size and the experience of F/Os currently on the fleet doesn't really enter into time to command.

Most of those currently going into the LHS of the 380 will be captains moving from short haul, the rest will be off other Long Haul fleets (Captains and senior SFOs). I can't see that changing any time soon so I really don't think joining BA on the 380 with bags of experience is going to give a fast track to command.

There's plenty of bidders for the A380. I think every one in the RHS are SFOs with plenty of relevant experience.

The courses for Jan and Feb have just been published, and there are lots of command courses starting in January!

BA already has several hundred of those, all waiting patiently for their LH command, some for over 18 years....

That is the BA way, you wait for your turn, what you have done before is largely irrelevant.

That is how it works I'm afraid. How miffed will you be if that happens, so you serve your five year freeze on the A320, put in your bid for long haul, and discover that a brand new DEP buddy gets a position on a long haul fleet and you are told you have to be retained on the A320 due to a lack of training capacity? Yes, that happens too I'm afraid.

fly4more

As my colleagues have said, rightly or wrongly that's a facet of how the BA system works ( another gem is having stacks of seniority but being stuck on a dying fleet). Even if, for whatever reason, you can't change fleet you're ahead on seniority and will be above the later joiners when you do eventually switch.

I'd look on the bright side - at least these days with the likes of pprune you can make yourself aware of the potential pitfalls before signing on the line.

Having had exactly this, being non rated with thousands of hours on Boeings. I would not have done it any other way. Getting in a month earlier rather then later would make a difference of at least 30 places on the seniority list at the moment! LH would probably have given a slightly easier lifestyle initially, but being already over 1/3 down the fleet seniority list I already have control about my working lines.

Long shot but does anyone know the order in which you are put into the hold pool? Is it done by the date of your sim or when you were notified of the result?

I'm just wondering because there is a possible scenario in which you received your assessment result after someone who'd been sim checked at a later date than you simply due to circumstances in the office at the time.

Rex, I do not know the answer to your question but whatever the answer, is there anything you can do about it? Do people even get extracted from the hold pool in order of entry or is it based on experience or type ratings held etc.? You cannot influence any of it so the answer is irrelevant. All you can do is be patient and see what happens. Why worry about it or upset yourself if the answer is not to your liking?

I'm just interested that's all.

Rex, the most logical and fair way I can think of deciding the seniority is by the start of your Type Rating date.

I had the same as Jumbo and had absolutely no regrets. I joined on the 757/767 (from a 757 operator) while almost all my former company colleagues got to go to the 744. I was initially a bit cheesed off and thought about delaying my joining date (it was an option then) in order to join them but, in the end, was convinced by a BA mate to just get in as quickly as possible. I'm extremely glad I did and very pleased that I didn't go the Jumbo straight away. While I went whizzing up the 757/767 seniority list and got to, very quickly, a position where I could get decent lines of work, my mates on the 744 were stuck at the bottom of the list with very few people entering below them but a lot, transferring from other fleets, sliding in above them.

BA is all about lifestyle and that means seniority. Being more senior on a junior fleet is much better than the other way round and gives you many more options for controlling your work and days off. Don't be in a huge rush to jump onto an aircraft just because it's bigger than another one in the Company armoury; they're all the same once you close the flight deck door and nobody gives a damn that you fly a BA widebody....that it's important is just your over-inflated ego speaking.

End of the day, do what my mate said; get in as soon as you can and if you're offered shorthaul, grab it and enjoy the control of your life that you'll have compared to the bloke/blokess on your course who went to the 777.

Max Age
 

What's the apper age bracket generally seen in new hires? I'm 46 and by the time I might be hired would have a 17 - 18 year career, not chasing command more stability and QOL.

I rather understand Rex's interest. Since entering the hold pool 3 months ago, there has been absolutely no information beyond an email sent to some asking them to clarify their hours and 2016 offers are being contemplated.

For those of us at regionals and low costs this is a massive move for us, our wives (or husbands) and families. I think a lot of us are understandably nervous and attempting to clarify the process given that all we really have to go on at the moment are rumours posted on here. Recent world events have reminded us that despite BA's recruitment plans, nothing is certain and all we really want is information to soothe our nerves!

Your hypothetical new A320 joiner may need to prepare to be miffed, from what I hear...

Re: sim slots. Mate had interview Monday, telephone call Tuesday with sim date early December.

Miffed? Having recently joined on the 320! :mad:

Try telling that to guys who have been on the bus for more than 5 years and by the latest indications will be denied any transfer whilst DEP go straight to LH.

The feeling of entitlement by some is amazing.

:bored:

Because of the internet and certainly the info available here BA's ruleset(s) should be well known. On and off, feast, then famine, only entries on one fleet..then everything opens up...or doesn't......

Because of this some were miffed when they misjudged things in the early 90's and got stuck on the classic 747 for years, some got stuck and miffed at LGW, most Flight Engineers got very miffed after 9/11........... One thing is for sure, you're not even in the game until you've got a seniority number, and you only get that by signing for the seat you've been offered.....

fly4more..if you think that selection strategy, if true, is an example BA being devious I've got news for you.......they can be much more devious than that :ooh:

Hold pool update went out today:

- If you have 2000tt incl 1000 Jet>25t or Tp>50t you may expect a long haul call

- If you have an A320 rating expect a call for that, even if you meet above requirements. All A320 slots are FPP or type rated recruitment at the moment

No offers will be made to anyone who does not meet either of the above criteria at this time. Given BA were publicly stating to all who went through selection this summer that jobs would be available to all who passed this is another boot for anyone flying regional or turboprop types!

"at this time" does not mean "for the forseeable future" though...

Oh the irony......


Why on earth has the airline industry got itself into the position that length of time in a job has somehow equated to worth of an individual?

Because you have been in BA for a while does that make you better?

How childish.

Tourist to be fair on this one - and I am one of the hold pool guys who is wanting to take advantage of this situation and get a long haul slot - I actually fully agree with Bex. If a type rated guy (and regardless of their number of hours on type) is coming in and taking a slot ahead of someone who's now completed their engagement freeze and making an aspirational bid for long haul then (possibly) fair enough. But this is potentially not what is going on.

You could have two guys with the same type rating (or not, neither is type rated on the fleet being recruited for - it doesn't matter) and the same number of hours, the only difference being one is a DEP and one is someone who is a company employee and has served the company for five years. Both applying for a long haul slot. The external guy gets it.

Are you seriously telling me you'd be happy with that or that anyone in any other industry or workplace would be happy if the external (and equal) candidate denies someone in the company their promotion???

Really???

I don't think I mentioned anywhere that time served meant you were better or worse than anyone else.

The one thing these guys all have is a seniority number a track record within BA and an investment in the company. If you don't agree with the way we do things then don't come.

The truth is this. Pilots on SH with valid bids are having their career aspirations suppressed. Yes it's temporary and in our system they will be more senior than the new guys on LH so it will balance out in time.

BA has a way of working and when you join you accept that. You start at the bottom and work your way up. That gives you the right to then prove you are suitable for a position, not the right to that position. Many of these guys getting held on the bus have spent years close to or at the bottom taking the the crap. Now it's turning around these same guys are being excluded from the benefits. It is then when you hear about new guys just in or guys yet to join talking about being miffed that you can't help but :rolleyes:. Yes you will say how hard it's been elsewhere but we are not talking about elsewhere we are talking about here. DEP onto LH is only supposed to occur when there are a lack of suitable internal candidates. That is not the case. There is a problem with training capacity and finding enough Airbus pilots of a suitable standard to BA to allow these guys to move fleet.

De furmo in flammam. Please do come air your views on our way of doing things in the crew room. I am sure it will be listened to with great interest

My advice to hold pool swimmers would be to get your foot in the door and your name on the seniority list, then worry about your fleet later (if it's not the one you want from day one). Nowhere's perfect, BA included, but if you're joining for a specific fleet then you're missing the big picture of what BA offers.

Just to add to what Bex has said above, if you don't like the way BA does things then don't apply. It's a big seniority machine where the computers have names and the people have numbers. But despite its downsides, BA is still better than most airlines out there. If you don't agree then save your days off for something more pleasant than computer tests and interviews.

You do make a fair point but it's a system to which you choose to join or not. I am no defender of our rostering and have had a worse deal than most in that respect. What I would say is this. Under normal circumstances you quickly achieve some choice and control over your life and that is far far better than any system I know. The stories of champagne lines of work being picked by the most senior is not strictly true. Lines are pre constructed at stage one so you can't pick with 100% control.

If you want to complain and be vocal about it once your here then do it quietly because you won't find any support to change it and you will probably come round to its merits after a little while.

Those with a very much nicer roster than mine have served their time with years of crap rosters and little control over their lives. Ever seen 'Layer Cake"? in the words of Eddie Temple.....

"You're born, you take !!!!. You get out in the world, you take more !!!!. You climb a little higher, you take less !!!!. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what !!!! even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake son."

I say the above as someone planted firmly at the bottom of the master seniority list, currently taking said s***.

I am under the impression that the seniority numbers for fleet transfers in 2016 include all eligible un-frozen SH pilots with a bid in. That number isn't sufficient to fill the LH seats so there has to be DEP LH recruitment. I don't quite know how the land lies on the 767 but I believe un-frozen pilots on that fleet are being held back, in my view unfairly, from fleet moves.

Not sure if anything is being done this year that's been done any different any other year.

DVR6K, this isn't about sticking to their freeze guns. Just ask the guys who had their freezes waived this year to get SH commands. They could easily choose to waive Engagement freezes, and recruit all newbies onto the 320, which would please all those SH P2 who are waiting patiently LH and massively boost morale in the same blow. It wouldn't please the training dept though, who then potentially have to do two courses instead of one.

Make no mistake, this is not about choosing to get the best pilot or the most experienced, or the most anything into BA Longhaul, nor is it a way of sticking to the freeze promise. This is a cost game, nothing more, nothing less.

You're absolutely right. Cost is King as the march towards record profits continues. It ain't right but it's the IAG way. If they don't have to unfreeze people they won't. It's not rewarding company loyalty but when did that ever matter to them?

Ex-BMI Airbus guys leapfrogging frozen Airbus guys onto LH. Now we're talking unfair. But what can you do?