Cheers for the replies guys, informative as ever :ok:

I am a junior Capt. Short haul.
Yes I am well paid 6k net a month,nice Hotels, £ 3.39 an hour down route.
However the work is relentless with all the associated issues of LHR. no tug,no busses,no stand guidance etc etc.
iF you want a weekend off then forget it or a special day off is pure chance although pre ops do try to accommodate.
Personally I have had 6 weekends off in 18 months,with some of my colleagues none in 2 years.
Social life is limited. For example on my current 5 day 12 sector tour we have had 9 different cabin crew. Down route is generally a beer and a pizza with your colleague so don't expect much else.
Ba is not a place that you will make friends as the place is so big. Nobody knows who you are but that can be a positive as well.
Everyone is different and some thrive on the hard work and if current FO's choose to stay on long haul then it's their choice.
For me, I am in my bed or a hotel bed every night and when I finish at Lhr say at 9pm and see all,the long haul,flights going off I just think to myself I will have driven home,had 8 hours sleep,had breakfast,walked the dog had a coffee and the long haul guys are still in the air!!
Their is no doubt that nights out of bed are damaging to your health combined with the huge changes in time zone the trouble is that you don't realise the damage it does long term.
I appreciate the last para is off topic but I just wanted to give my reasons for putting up,with short haul. Less money yes, more crap to put up,with at Lhr, yes ,but like I said everyone is different and for me it's my health that's number one.

King surf.....if there were a like button I would press it for that post

Frankly, those trying to second guess "the state of the nation" in 5 years time are simply dreaming. things change all the time and at a rapid pace.
Bottom line is, if you want to work for BA then give it your best shot. If you are sceptical, or feel that only one part of BA would suit you, then forget it!
As with many companies the most verbose will make their feelings known whilst the silent majority will just get on with the job, knowing that things will inevitably change, sometimes for the better sometimes not!

Hi King surf

Genuine question from interest and not meant to sound synical. But what you describe of BA short haul doesn't sound terribly good for your health either. How many night stops do you do a month? Did you previously come from the long haul side of things before to make your comparison?

I'm not BA, but I can sympathise with the jet lag concern. It knackers me. It knackers everyone. Its the big bit of the job that worries me health wise along woth being zapped by radiation and breathing compressor air for hours. The other bit I don't like is very long trips. Other than that I prefer long haul over any short haul. Only for now.

On BA long haul are the layovers majority min rest or any 2 days plus?

Hi cliff, Yes I have done long haul and night freigt and I feel sooooo much better doing short haul but would admit to getting tired but so is my neighbour who gets up at 5 am 5 days a week and gets home at 7 pm.
I probably do 7to 10 night stops a month with most night stops being 13-17 hours off. Occasional stand overs with 30 hours off.

Holdpool
 

Hi All,

Does anyone have any news of movement in the Holdpool? Are courses being offered and if so, when and on what? Also current number of swimmers and time in the pool?

Cheers

Cliff

The majority are 1 or 2 nights, certainly on fleets with well established route structure, but as you would expect there are exceptions....it's a bit of a "that depends" thing.

The destinations with a daily service on a single type tend to be night stop or 2 nights depending on FTLs (e.g. most of the State side stuff).

If it's a destination where there's an interchange of type (e.g. has been happening between 380/744) you might get extra nights, also you might sometimes generate extra nights if there any shuttle sectors involved (e.g. some of the Caribbean stuff on the 777).

Other than that there's a very small number of three or four day no shuttle layovers. They are in places where BA don't do many services and it's probably too complicated and/or costly to position crew in/out ..or they just appear on the schedules for no immediately obvious reason...

So..what was the question again....:}?

Is he a cadet or Airbus Type Rated? Has the recruitment process come to a standstill? Not a great deal of mention regarding days 1,2 or 3 at the moment?

Cheers

HP

Question
 

Quick question for you guys in BA;

I'm currently flying the a380 with a big operator in the Middle East. I have about 7000h all on heavy jet.
36 years old.

What are my chances of being recruited directly on the 380?

How much is the monthly gross pay, including allowances and flight pay on the LH fleet?

Thanks

G109

Basic LH pay point 1 is £54069 pa. You then add FPA at about £650 a month and duty pay at £3:19 per hour from check in at LHR to check out. That's maybe around £1200-1500 a month. That's all subject to UK tax. Your duty pay is taxed at 20%. I am SH so have no accurate info on the achieved allowances so it's an estimate.

What are your chances of going directly onto the RHS of the 380 fleet? As your rated and they have said internally that they will recruit at least 20 onto it in 2016 I would have said pretty good. Why would they go through the the hassle or type rating you on another type when you have a rating we need.

Hope that helps with your decision.

I can pretty much guarantee a full course will be required, WHATEVER type you join on.

Well that's not true, and hasn't been for some years.... I joined 5 years ago with an Airbus type rating and we did a 'bridging' course of sorts that consisted of 1 weeks ground school 4 or 5 sims and 12 line training sectors.

I would think if you have an A380 type rating you would be VERY attractive to BA.

King Surf,

Did you pass the verbal reasoning test? If so, see me.

Standards have slipped.....

When you lose around 30% of your pay to taxes, and have to pay for your own accommodation, I wonder if BA is attractive to anybody residing abroad? I suspect that's why BA are scratching around....

I don't think I'd characterise it quite that way. Sure BA could throw money at the pilots to try and match some of the expat packages but it's BA, they won't..... I certainly haven't yet heard any of the recruiters saying "you know, we are really short, we really must make a special effort to attract experienced people from the Gulf (or elsewhere).".... There is lots of experience in the airline and as for the new P2 side there are people still in the hold pool and plenty others elsewhere in the selection/recruitment pipeline.

Just to clarify I take it you mean accommodation at base (i.e. within reasonable travelling distance of LHR)?

Yes, Belfast and Dublin

Regards

Thanks for the infos guys, much appreciated.

I roughly worked out the NET take home pay for a year 1 FO including allowances to be 4830 GBP per month.
does that sound about right?

It is slightly less to what I am making now, but being based back in Europe again is the big plus for me. I have had enough of the middle east, after only being here for about 4 years.

cheers

Roadshows
 

Many attendees at the LGW Hilton event yesterday?

I attended the Luton Roadshow, took my time with the application, essay questions etc, even sent email saying I attended the roadshow, then got a no to my application, it still shows submitted. Not sure what type of person they were looking for? Ex FE and over 2000hrs First Officer Boeing time.:ugh:

Hi All,

Last year I applied for DEP, passed day 1 testing at Waterside with a call back less than 6 hours after leaving, sailed through the interview & group exercise and before I knew it I was booked in for a simulator assessment less than 3 weeks after submitting my online application.

I thought the simulator assessment went fine but a couple of restless days later I got the email I was dreading...I had been unsuccessful! The email did however offer me feedback which I jumped at and just a few weeks later I received the call. The feedback all seemed very positive, a few minor points here and there but I was told I missed out by the very skin of my teeth.

I decided to have another go this year, I submitted my application and got the invitation to day 1 again. I launched into preparing myself for the tests and went off to Waterside, all seemed to go ok on the day and I came out quietly confident. After an anxious 4 day wait I received an email stating ‘after careful consideration it has been decided not to take my application any further’ to say I was gutted was an understatement.

I really cannot understand what went so disastrously wrong in 12 months, I asked for feedback but received a polite reply saying that due to high volumes of applications they would not be able to accommodate my request.

I am guessing that every application is assessed without any reference to any previous attempts; it was nice to experience the whole selection process for myself but very disappointing that I was unsuccessful so early on in the second attempt.

I wish all of those in the current recruitment drive the best of luck.

G109.

This sounds a little high to me, while junior the allowances make up a much larger chunk of your pay than for those more senior. The allowances fluctuate quite a lot depending on night stops vs day trips vs reserve, little of which you have much control over while junior.

I'm still in my first 5 years and after the compulsory pension contributions are deducted my Gross pay is usually between 5500 and 6000 GBP. Then you need to deduct tax, NI and any expense payments. I would therefore work on the low 4000's GBP and then be happy when you have a busy month.

Regards

No, way too high (unless you have some unique tax arrangements) - if you work on £4,200 NET as a Yr 1 FO, on longhaul and not using much HOST (the allowance system at BA - you can take local currency out at the hotels and it is debited from pay the following month). If you use HOST a lot, expect to take a few hundred quid off the £4,200. My lowest so far has been around £3,900 - I had leave.

P.S. I should say the above figure is also after putting in 9% (pre-tax) in to the pension.

Rgds.

Would anyone be knowing if the requirements for DEP are likely to go back to "minimum of 500 hours experience on an aircraft that satisfies CAP 804 FCL.730.A - Zero Flight Time Training course requirement" for SH?

At the moment they are no longer progressing applications from those already in the system (ie passed Day 1 or 2) who do not meet the Long Haul minima and have a number of pilots in the hold pool who have likewise been told they are unlikely to receive offers any time soon.

I would thus suggest it is unlikely in the near future!

Hi,

Is anybody willing to share a few rosters from blind line junior pilots on the various long haul fleets? Obviously not too specific so that you can't be identified etc. Just weighing up the improvement in lifestyle compared to the current employer.

I really appreciate any replies!

Also, has anyone been called from the hold pool for long haul since the update was sent out?

Thanks

Hope you get some feedback but old or even the current rosters may be of limited value. From February onwards Long haul moves it's rostering onto EASA compliant version of FTLs, so whether historic Blind lines are going to have any resemblance to those down the road is anybody's guess.

It's going to be an interesting few months...:8

BA hold pool
 

Any ideas of the break down in the hold pool? How many are not meeting the long haul requirement? Many A320 rated? Are they likely to exceed 12 months in the hold pool and get sent back to square one like previous years?

All the best to those affected.

HP

My sources are:

- The recent email to hold poolers stating that only long haul offers would be made to those who did not hold A320 ratings and no non-rated recruitment (apart from FPP) would take place onto the A320

- Two friends who have been informed that despite passing, they will not be progressing to the next stage of recruitment due to not meeting LH type or hour requirements, one after day 1, one after day 2

- Contact with other hold pool swimmers through this website/via email

That's interesting. I can only assume training capacity is at its limit on the A320. There is a huge amount of movement from the A320 fleet to LH fleets and also from RHS to LHS. Perhaps 320 numbers are shaping up nicely as they have pushed in a large number of new FO's onto the fleet. Pretty much all bidders who don't require a type rating have been given an ok bid for command on type

Why have BA got a 25tonne limit on people going onto long haul? People have joined the big 3 in the Middle East onto 777 and A330 from dash 8s,CRJs etc without problems.

EK have only recently dropped the bar low enough to turboprop because they can't attract anyone. It was out of desperation and necessity.
The simple answer to many of these questions is that BA can do, and always have done, whatever they like.

I went through the recruitment process last year. BA opened a few different applications; first it was 320 only, then 330/340 guys who would be willing to do the short course to convert onto the 320 and finally non type rated. I didn't apply at the 320 only stage as I wanted to try long haul but by the time a job offer came around for me, there was no choice but the 320 anyway. I nearly didn't accept based on that and from what I know now that would have been a major mistake. As much as people complain about the fleet, it has far more variety than my previous job and plenty of flexibility. There are guys with Heathrow commands coming up after 3 or 4 years in the company and rumours that they may need to open a supplementary bid to fill more spaces.

Some people had the feeling that long haul courses were being offered to get more applications through the post, and they certainly got mine because of that, once you've invested your time in the whole
process it's hard to turn down a job. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little bit of that going on now, some of my old colleagues at Easyjet are certainly more interested in applying.

BA are going through one of the biggest recruitment drives ever, they haven't been able to offer any part time in this years bid due to lack of Pilots. Seniority on the 320 is moving like nobody's business. I wouldn't be too concerned with falling out of the hold pool if you've been successful but don't meet long haul requirements, it is highly likely that the 320 training capacity is maxed out but it's a matter of time before they need more folks on the fleet.

I think this campaign will continue onward for some time!

The most junior successful applicant for LHS Airbus LHR this year has a grand total of 6 months in the company as a copilot.

There is a mass exodus from unfrozen P1's off the A320 fleet to Long Haul and BA can't find enough experienced* co-pilots to replace them.

IMHO, the 2 main reasons for Command becoming so junior this year is the combination of

• Our rosters will soon be constructed to the new EASA FTL's and
• Our new CEO has come from Veuling and his opinions of Short Haul pilots is reflected in his T's and C's of his previous company

Good luck all.

*3500 TT required

Vueling, a company that still struggles to turn a profit despite the salaries they pay. That should tell him all he needs to know about the relevance of pilot pay to the profitability of a company.

I don't think that is correct.

It's 2000 hours for command which goes down 1000 if PIC

From the above post???????

There is a mass exodus from unfrozen P1's off the A320 fleet to Long Haul and BA can't find enough experienced* co-pilots to replace them.

I thought all Airbus slots were now covered after any movers changing fleets by FPP and Airbus rated Experienced people from the pool. Hence why we hear people in the pool that are not Airbus rated or meet the long haul requirements being told no offers for you this time and guys in the selection process not meeting the requirements being told they will progress no further as everything next year is now long haul.

Or are things about to change once again?

Best of luck to everyone where ever you are in the process.

HP

Harry, the post is talking about A320 Command positions and a lack of experienced FOs bidding for them - hence why there are some A320 DEPs with appropriate previous experience, but less than a year in BA, with a successful bid from right to left. I suspect the current focus on long haul recruitment is due to EASA in February. I was recently told that even now, the 747 needs a 25% increase in numbers come February. Apparently we will recruit similar numbers onto the 747 in 2016 as we have in 2015. That will mean more than 40% of the FOs on the fleet will be new DEPs. Incredible really.

I'm afraid no one with 2000 hours is going to get a command. To have 1000 PIC (on an Airbus) at 2000TT would be a statistical impossibility. It's 3500 TT minimum with 3 years and 1500 in BA. If however you exceed the minimum total then you can have a command if you satisfy another of the 3 remaining requirements and not wait the full 3 years. So if you joined with 8000TT and had 1000 PIC on date of joining you could get a command pretty quick!

Hope that clarifies things!

Minimum Qualifications for BA Command Clarification
 

Just to clarify the required minimums for BA Command as few statements I've read on here aren't quite accurate..... It states in the OM-A Section 5.2 that there are 4 boxes of various experience, one of which you must satisfy before commencing a BA Command Course.

'1000 hrs PIC & 2000 hrs in command on civil jet transport greater than 25 tonnes with zero time in BA'I suggest won't apply to many, so we'll bypass that!

Most will fall into this category.....

'2000 hrs on jet transport greater than 25 tonnes or military equivalent, 1 year in BA'.

Being that the most Junior Command on offer is to a DEP with 6 months or so in BA and is at the back end of courses in terms of seniority then he/she will probably have completed close to 18 months in BA by the time the course comes around. It's most likely that the DEP joined BA with at least 500 hrs & still must have an ATPL (1500 hrs) to hold a command in any company as it's the law.

A large majority of DEP's joined with 320 ratings so will have plenty of previous experience... One chap I was safety pilot for on his day one was an ex Easy skipper... & will have 12 months in BA by the time a course arrives. There are some very experienced recent joiners which BA should take full advantage of if there is a course for them in seniority.

The question from ex Turbo Prob colleagues is does a Dash 8 count as 'Jet Transport'?... If it doesn't then '3500hrs total time, 2500 hrs on public transport greater than 12½ tonnes or military equivalent & 3 years 1500 hrs in BA will probably catch recent DEP's out....

In Summary of what's turned into a bit of a waffly post....

Yes, if you have just joined BA you can be offered a command course based on your previous experience. Hope this helps.

Rgds BASHLH.