But that is not the requirement. "2000 hrs on jet transport greater than 25 tonnes" + "1 year BA experience". It doesn't specify PIC.

So assuming 200 hrs to get fATPL during training and then straight on to A320 with, say, Easyjet, before joining BA, you'd be looking at about 2200 hrs TT minimum for command.

The 1000 PIC is an alternative requirement. Thats how I read it anyway.

The real question I ask myself is, how is it that no current BA pilots want a short haul command

BA skipper pay is 25% more than FO grade. After tax prob no more than £600-700 month for basic grade captains.

Most long haul FOs have 10-15 years min seniority . They are used to their pay grade and position . The are not ambitious and have no desire to sacrifice lifestyle for hammering around europe in the hissing rain . And all those communities to LHR.

If you are ambiguous for command , then nows the time to apply. Wether you make it to the pool only god will know.

BA skipper base pay is 33% more than FO grade

BA FO earns 75% of corresponding pay grade Captains salary

Classic typo!

Amazing that some will get commands in as many months as some have waited years...

bringback..

There are probably plenty of current BA pilots who want a short haul command but many don't meet the company requirements. OTOH those that do seem to have been awarded courses.

Remember (?) anyone moving gets hit into the LHS of the A320 gets bit by X year freeze just the time when for the first time in decade there seems to be considerable movement.

...so the LongHaul P2s are hanging on for a Longhaul Right to Left, so they don't want a freeze.

The senior Short haul P2s have got control over their lives and might be in line for a move from Short Haul to Longhaul if not frozen.....they're not going to bid RHS to LHS

When the bid process is run and the courses are awarded, I don't think the requirements (in terms of hours etc) are looked at, hence the line in the results document to 'inform the relevant person if you don't meet the requirements'.

If you look at the awards at the bottom end of the seniority list, EVERYONE who bid for C32 got it. The only exception to this was FPP cadets. There may be people awarded C32 that don't meet the requirements and will have to decline the award.

Flaperon

Fair point, however just to be clear I was merely responding to the comment that

...

I suspect looking at the bid results a few actually do.... :ok:

I also think there will be A LOT of P2's, especially junior ones, who didn't bother bidding as they wouldn't have thought in a million years that commands would come so low. Having been hovering around the 2000 mark for the last 5 years or so, commands suddenly plummeted down close to 4000 and I think that has caught a lot of people out. Despite the old mantra of 'bid for what you want', I think a lot of people just can't be ar**d to bid if realistically little or no chance of a course/command. Especially those who are still in their 5 year engagement freeze.

This will have been exacerbated by a flt ops manager saying on a company forum, prior to the bid, that he thought short haul commands would be a lot more senior this year (!!)

I've no doubt that any supplementary bid for commands would attract many willing applicants.

Incidentally I also know of a recent joiner who bid for every position in the company. A 'comedy bid', not expecting to get any of them. He was shocked to be awarded a LHR command and doesn't want it. He really wants to go long haul and doesn't now know what to do. If he turns down the command he will be given a penalty freeze. If he takes the command (which he doesn't feel ready for) he will also be frozen on type. Bid for what you want!

"Comedy bid" indeed! Who's laughing now?

I'm not entirely convinced it will go more senior again next year either. The effect of EASA FTL's, especially longer duty days starting earlier in the day, remains to be seen. On top of that, our new CEO hails from Vueling and has already expressed an interest in reviewing pilot unit costs. If I was a betting man Id put money on the short haul working environment deteriorating further over the next few years.

Is a bid still just the case of writing/typing something like "C32L" or "P77L"? If so, I don't understand why people don't just bid for what they want!? It's hardly a great effort.

It's not even that complicated: you just click on what you want and then make sure the choices are in the right order! I've always 'bid for what I wanted' and it's worked out* just fine!

*14 years P744 (out of choice, although I always bid for LHS LH, just in case)
4 years C32L (eventually realised LHS LH was still a few years off and wanted to get Command Course out of the way)
C78L (next year, no course date yet)

Luck/timing does come in to it but if you don't bid, you don't stand a chance.

Talking of timing, now is a great time to join!

King Surf,

Did you pass the verbal reasoning test? If so, see me.

Standards have slipped.....

What a strange comment bowly!! Would you care to explain?

Oh c'mon ; Kingsurf is ambiguous for a Command and balks at the prospect of getting through all those communities on the way to Heathrow. I look back at Hamble selection and wonder how today's lot would even get past the initial, phase 1 screening.(A funny thing called an Application pro-forma and initial medical). Bring back A.H.,Abbott, Secretary to the Selection Board, you had to get past him first. Oh, he must be 100 now. He didn't like me at Phase 2 because I said "Cripes, I thought all secretaries were girls !" !

Ppruners,

How stuffed am I? Recently clawed myself into the holdpool. Non Airbus/Boeing 1100 Jet time 1200TT Not gonna get 2000hrs at my airline by the time I drop out next Nov...occasionally reading these forums there seem to be a lot of people in the know with all things BA...just curious as to what some of you think my chances of getting a call are in the next 12 months...

fly4more,
What does 'sipping coffee intently' mean?

Holdpoolin,

Congratulations on getting into the hold pool.

There are many positives to sites like pprune for sharing information, however it is a rumour network so there fore don't trust everything that is typed.

I'm not in the know of how the next 350/400 pilots for 2016 will be recruited but obviously there is a great need for LH NOW... That's not to say that non type rated holdpoolers are now not required. The facts are that there is a great deal of movement internally, nearly everyone of my 2011 batch are leaving the 320 for LH or seat change... We have to be replaced which is why the company are rigidly sticking to the 5 year engagement freeze (bar C32L/X). BA have run out of internal 'unfrozen' bidders hence the need for LH DEP's. I'm quite sure we will then require 320 DEP's type rated or not, as not all the 350/400 new pilots will go to LH... It's just a question of when. FACT we need pilots so your in as positive a situation as you could be in.... Don't believe posters who say we don't need you, how do they know? I don't & I'm not even sure BA know.... Things change very quickly.....

LC is a very trusted manager, he is one of only a few that know the plan for the next few months. I'm sure they are working on a plan... You just might be towards the end of that plan!

My Advice would be to Stay positive, & stay in touch with the recruitment team every couple of months... If I hear any further Facts then I will of course post.

Rgds BASHLH

Oh c'mon ; Kingsurf is ambiguous for a Command and balks at the prospect of getting through all those communities on the way to Heathrow. I look back at Hamble selection and wonder how today's lot would even get past the initial, phase 1 screening.(A funny thing called an Application pro-forma and initial medical). Bring back A.H.,Abbott, Secretary to the Selection Board, you had to get past him first. Oh, he must be 100 now. He didn't like me at Phase 2 because I said "Cripes, I thought all secretaries were girls !" !
Landflap is offline Report Post

You totally lost me? i seem to remember writing a post as to what life was like as a junior skipper at LHR and nothing more.

KINGSURF ; Oooops, sorry. I was commenting on a post by THE CREW. Spotted yours that seemed to go the same way. Apologies. Thought I was being entertaining. Story of my life. Staying in today.

BASHLH,

Thanks, hopefully the next 12 months won't be too agonising! Appreciate you giving a heads up on anything you manage to find out, in the mean time I shall be in contact with recruitment as frequently as possible without being an outright nuisance!

Hello

Regarding the leave. I gather its bid for 6 months in advance and over 2 bid seasons, and that you have 6 weeks allotted including the un worked weeks. A few questions:-

1/ Is it possible to achieve 3 blocks of leave in each season or are you restricted to one 2 week block and one single week?

2/ If you have a weeks leave of 7 days are there any "wrap around" days attached to the 7 days off in lieu of normal days off?

3/ How does a month with leave affect your requirement to achieve CAP? Does leave count towards CAP.

Many thanks.

To answer the leave questions:

Leave at LHR is two weeks a season, with a duty free week

You can take these in blocks of a single week or as a two week block, you could, in theory, put the DFW up against the leave block of two weeks.

The leave blocks have 3 wrap days attached to them meaning that you can make the week into 10 days.

Leave and the DFW attract the daily rate of CAP. So divide monthly cap by the days in the month and you attract that much credit per day on leave and DFW

Wrap days and DFWs can be worked in, leave cannot.

Leave is bid for but is not seniority based. Each leave block has an attached value in points. This adds to your pot. More attractive leave blocks earn less points. When the leave bids are allocated, the highest points gets the leave allocated first.

Points last for (i think) 8 years, so after that time the points you earned 9 years ago are wiped - but the points for the last 8 years remain.

Many thanks for answering JT.

I read it as "1+3" rather than "1 of 4" boxes. So 3500 TT etc, then including one of the next three criteria.

The instructions in the Annual Bid document states the same. Otherwise, some of our early FPP chaps could easily have 2000hrs plus one year in BA come the start of their command course, but they've all been denied.

All this is irrelevant unless you are in BA, Bid line , leave , nice to know but really, anyone commited to all the time n effort necessary to get into the pool dont give too hoots about the complexities of Bid or leave.
Its gotta be better than most loco J2 or Monarch!

You don't know anyone's situation. I'll ask what I like thank you all the same.

and if you are in BA then I would assume you know the answers. It may be better than eJ and Monarch but how would we know if we don't ask ?

Really?

I would say it depends very much on your age , and where you live.

Why age now? If commands are happening at 1-2 years after joining, what difference does age make? Age was only a thing cause it meant financially other options were better wasn't it? But now BA seems to be offering quick commands that most would give their right arm for (apart from current BA employees strangely).

And so now you can make FO money on a part time Capt salary if you want so who cares about seniority or bid line. Or just kick back and as you work up the list you get all your weekends back.

BA command on SH happens fairly quick if you got the requirement, especially A320 LGW base. :ok:

Wrong!

Many captains and FO's have recently declined their moves back to LHR next year. Most are enjoying life at LGW with great crew and a real variety of flying. More importantly, the roster control you get as a junior pilot at LGW is far better. Ultimately this will result in LHR becoming the most junior command by some margin.

Guys I' ve said it for a long time, the future is low cost for short haul, period. Just different flags, but same story. I think this is to keep in mind when thinking career moves etc..It will come for long haul too, not just yet though.
Good luckto all

Well if you've said it for a long time, and yet it still hasn't happened; perhaps, just perhaps you may be wrong.
I think personally there's a market for full service and no frills. BA seem to be proving this.

I was talking about contracts, lifestyle and hours per year...and as you can very well see it has happened already..

SkyRocket10
To be accurate. In 2016, any pilot in BA with the required experience for command can achieve LHS A320 IF THEY BID FOR IT in the annual bid. Certain freezes (including type freezes) have been waived.

Anyone with the experience, can achieve a LHR command. Anyone with the experience, can achieve a LGW command. It just depends which you prefer? Long, four sector days = LGW. Multi day Euro tours = LHR. LGW pilots achieve fewer days off, and will eventually bump up against a pay cap.

The current time to command is a TOTAL one off. Don't make ANY plans expecting it to last!

There are reasons why SH commands are unpopular in BA.

If LHS of an Airbus is all you want, go to/stay at Easy.

4468 : Good closing point. Does remind me, though, of Trident SBY at the Queens (not a pub) and expressing a desire to exit BA after the merger saw many of us go backwards through the Seniority Lists, I mentioned that a faster time to Command was achievable by joining the so-called Independents. I was smartly put in my place by a T3 SFO who proudly asserted that, surely, it was a BA Command that was the aim. All history now but I agree that, surely, a LHS on anything with BA painted on the side has got to be well worth aiming for and maintaining, once achieved.

You'd have to be mad to leave a command at easyJet on the assumption that you could get a BA Heathrow command after 6 months. There's absolutely no guarantee of that happening and even if it did, you would take a massive pay cut to do so. Over on the easyJet DEP thread, someone has posted a very comprehensive review of the Captain package at easyJet. It is significantly better than the BA package on pay point 1, and for many, many years thereafter it remains better, especially once you factor in the share schemes and bonuses that easyJet pay. Not only that, but your lifestyle would take a major hit for a long time as you ended up flying blind lines with no roster control (to the new EASA FTL limits!).

If, however, you want to go long haul then clearly there is an argument that now is a good time to make the move.

As for low cost short haul being the future, the term "low cost" would be better replaced by "low wage". The future of short haul is increasingly in the middle ground in terms of service. Passengers want some extras like frequent flyer schemes and newspapers and wifi etc. Even "low-cost" carriers like Vueling are realizing this. The key to providing it all at an attractive price is to ruthlessly drive down labour costs. The incoming Executive Chairman of BA wholeheartedly subscribes to this view of the world and will doubtless drive forward its implementation.

If this is the argument, then I rest my case.

Apparently no longer the case due to a number of people declining the base transfer from LGW. I believe this is also combined with a rumoured change to manpower levels, which will obviously affect available positions.