Congratulations! :cool:

Cheers! Good luck to everyone else applying/in the hold pool.

Good news for those applying to BA

Quick question regarding qualifications what does this statement actually mean.

"To hold a current type rating and a minimum of 500 hours, or the required sectors, on an aircraft that satisfies CAP 804 FCL.730.A - Zero Flight Time Training course requirement. We would be particularly interested in hearing from candidates operating the A320"

Does it mean 500 hours in a current BA type or would 500 hours in a 757 , BAC 111, 146 , fokker 100 suffice

Also the actual licence required ? , they are not requiring an ATPL ?? , someone who joined Easy straight out of flight school has 1000 hours with 800 hours on the A320 would be ok ?

Yes that's fine, as long as you have a uk issued EASA licence it doesn't matter if it's a CPL, MPL or an ATPL.

Anyone out there that is not A320 type rated and been invited to the latest round of assessments? If so how do your hours stack up?

Hopeful request...
 

Hi guys and girls

Very optimistic, but given initially we're not in competition with each other but a standard, does anyone have any clues on the reasoning sections? I understand the verbal element is picking truths from statements, but does the numerical involve gleaning info from charts and tables, or very much just working with figures such as "...my garden is 200x400, how many packs of fence panels do I need if they measure 80 wide and 20 high with 8 in a pack..."

I appreciate theres loads of great stuff on here, but some is fairly old and if I get the call id love to put my best foot forward.

And if you want to moan at me for asking, ill take it on the chin!

Daveandg

In fact, the stuff on here regarding the tests is not far off the mark. Your garden fence question is fairly typical, irc. Type 'numerical reasoning practice tests' into google, and you can't go far wrong!

Good luck.

CC

As many people have posted before it takes time and effort to go through all the posts to glean information from this and other threads on British Airways recruitment. I did it and it took a few days, also invested in practice tools which I paid for. You have to put in plenty of preparation if you want to be successful, even in your written answers to the application questions. Take your time to get it right.

if you get invited to Stage 1 Aptitude Tests I recommend "assessmentday" and "skytest" websites.

Thank you Chuffer Chadley and Approaching minima. I have read this entire thread as well as the previous 'lowdown' ones, and there is some really great stuff so good investment of time and effort. As for Googling, I can honestly say that when I do the searches the list of returns are all magenta!

Back to the books, cheers guys

It seems like there is a lot of recruitment going on at BA these days. Does this mean at all that the time to upgrade for a new joiner in 2016 could be any shorter?

LGW commands were at 4-5 years in this year. Who knows about the future!

How about the long haul fleet?

A longhal command.... the $64m question.

Personally, I've been in 14 years and am conservatively at least 8 years (probably more like 10) from a L/H command. For those joining now, I'd have absolutely no idea but unless you're under 30 at joining date I would guess you won't see too much P1 L/H time...

Would it be fair to say that Gatwick commands certainly aren't the BA norm, for all sorts of reasons, and that is a situation that is unlikely to change?

I assume you mean time to command? If so who knows? Last few decades it's been 15 - 20 years'ish plus depending on the fleet you are bidding for. Difficult to predict going ahead but IMHO (that's all it is) that's what you still need to plan on at the very least and I guess hope it comes down. There's probably going to be a bit of a retirement bulge coming up but OTOH you've still got a sizeable cadre of the Prestwick cadets in the LHS, next in line are the '90's and the '00 DEPs, and their replacements (eventually) will be the DEPs and FPPs who are already "in" in significant numbers.

I'd put money at time to upgrade to a Long Haul command staying at or above 15 years for quite some time.

(edit to add: I see Flap 33's more pessimistic than I am but also probably more realistic, I'd certainly echo his/her final comment - FWIW I was told 7-8 years for a 747 command when I joined as a DEP..it actually took 16)

What is the retirement rate like at BA? Is it set to increase over the next few years like at the US majors or not so much? I guess it's probably confidential, but there's no harm in asking :ok:

I'm not sure about confidential. Having said that, I don't have specific numbers although they will probably be available somewhere. Yes, there's a bulge coming. All the pilots who stayed on over 55 when the retirement age initially changed start hitting 65 fairly shortly so there will be quite a bit of movement at the top of the pile. Couple this to increasing numbers applying for and achieving part-time and changes due to EASA FTLs and there will be a lot of recruitment going on for some time.

The bad news is for anyone joining now who wants a longhaul command. There is a second bulge, who are the "cadets" who joined during the nineties. Many of those who joined in the early nineties have had their longhaul commands for a few years now - and the youngest of them are in their early forties so have twenty years plus remaining. Those who joined in the late nineties are just coming into the frame now and are in their late thirties to early forties so again, there will be little movement for twenty to twenty five years for those people. Between them, they will occupy the top eight hundred or so of the seniority list for the longer term.

If you're joining aged under 30, you should make P1 LH. Over 30, possibly not. Depends how many of those above go part time.

Any further news on start dates? I take it there are now around 80 in the pool. I'm not overly concerned about drowning next September (although I suppose there's always that possibility depending on which way the economic wind blows) but it would be nice to be able to start having a clear picture of my next few months ahead.

IAG 2015 Q3 results will be out on 30th October so I'm hoping they'll be so good that the allocation of courses ramps up and the holding pool empties quickly!

Hints are emerging that there are not enough internal bidders for Airbus commands. What this means is unclear, but it could be some very junior commands being awarded in the next year. Other options are also being considered. make of that what you will. It is all speculation and has no basis in any verifiable fact. Interesting if true.

How much does that tell you about the state of BA shorthaul I wonder?

Interesting if true....is it worth speculating on why that might be the case :oh: :oh:

(Drat, Wirbs beat me to it again........:()

Timing is everything Wiggy :E (apparently!) ;)

I think it's a mixture, of long haul FOs waiting for a long haul command and not taking the shorthaul option as that becomes increasingly junior (744 command below 1550 now apparently), the high failure rate of Airbus commands (c.40%??) and the notorious (not in my experience I must add) reputation of the Airbus training department, the shear number of part time requests which have been sought for numerous lifestyle/tax/pension reasons, and the fact that the vast majority of those occupying the right seat of a shorthaul Airbus want to go long haul and fly a big machine, which was part of the reason for joining BA. I don't think it's an undesirable job just yet having just taken the shorthaul command option myself. I think this is positive and reading between the lines I might just find myself back at the golden runways of North Hownslow this following year, which from a BA career aspect is great news.

I joined BA wanting to be a short haul pilot forever. I never wanted to fly long haul however I soon realised that short haul flying for an entire career was unsustainable for me. That was at Gatwick over a decade ago!

Short haul SFOs must be pretty desperate to get away if they aren't bidding for short haul commands? Or maybe they are bidding, but allowing them to swap seats only exacerbates the short fall in Airbus FOs. They sure have got themselves into a bit of a pickle. I've heard stories in the past of Walsh saying the best gauge of how unhappy the workforce is, is whether they are are actually leaving. Well I interpret a lack of bidders for short haul commands as people leaving short haul. It's been going on for years! Sadly, I suspect one of the solutions being considered, will be to reduce the paypoint at which SFO pay is frozen. BALPA being BALPA, will agree rather than using this clear signal to sort out the fundamental issues.

I cannot imagine that BA BALPA will actually do anything to promote SH lifestyle if it has any impact whatsoever on LH. They have sacrificed SH in the past to protect LH. At BA BALPA should really be known as B(OAC)ALPA.

The only thing that might kick them into action would be SH DEC.

It's setting a dangerous precedent, especially with our IAG brothers Veuling rapidly expanding their Airbus fleet and code sharing SH flights from Gatwick.

It makes me wonder how long before the company splits, internally at least, back into effectively BOAC and BEA?

I think a split is inevitable at some point. I've never yet seen the company fail to achieve what it wanted eventually. Usually BALPA gives up something in order to prevent it happening, and then it just happens later on anyway. It is for this reason that I was strongly against the BMI concessions - indeed it was a significant part of why I left the union.

I wonder if they'll change command courses in order to improve the success rate? I know perfectly capable pilots who have been utterly broken by the command course system. It is no wonder that a lot of people would rather just not bother putting themselves through it for the sake of a short haul command.

They could start by actually doing some command training. The current system fails miserably in providing actual command training, they are good at telling you you are not acting as a captain, but that is about it.

If the rumour is correct ( and it's very much if....), just for the heck of it I'll add my ten cents worth.

Take a 10-12 year in SH P2. Suddenly there's movement on the lists on all fleets .... he ( /she.) is faced with the options of either:

1. Bidding for a Shorthaul command, which means an extra stripe, a pay rise,:ok: but an element of jeopardy, a possible one off tax hit ( any BARPers care to comment - re annual allowance), moving back to the bottom of a shorthaul status list with all that entails, and a post command freeze on type for several years :bored:

or

2. Not Bidding at all/only bidding for long haul RHS, and accept the risk of being a senior shorthaul P2 for perhaps just one or two more years. :cool:

I guess it's how much the individual want the extra stripe - guess we'll know for certain what's going on in the next few days.

Wiggy, As a BARPer LH P2 who has bid for a SH LHR command, there is no worry re exceeding the annual allowance. My pension contributions will increase as will BAs, but they won't double.

ATTCS armed

Thanks for the info, good luck with the bid.

Wiggy I'd agree with you if instead of '10-12', you'd said '15-17'. A 10-12 year in pilot has no chance of a long haul command within the next 5 years. Yes there is expansion, yes there are people bidding for part time, yes there are EASA FTLs, and yes people are going to start retiring but seriously? In my last simulator, I had two Captains telling me I'd have a long haul command within two years and that I was being pessimistic. When I asked them had they actually looked at the age demographics versus seniority numbers... Well, you can guess the reply.

More likely, those 10-12 year in FOs have looked at the work patterns at the bottom of the Airbus seniority and have decided they would rather have a life.

G/S

I wasn't implying a 10-12 year SFO was anywhere near a Longhaul command..I was implying he might have the choice of a short haul command or a move to RHS Long haul, sorry if that wasn't clear.

Exactly.

Ah I see. Yes that makes a lot more sense.

EASA FTLs
 

I've seen EASA FTLs mentioned in a few posts in this thread where the poster is implying that BA will require more Pilots because of the new regs, implying that productivity per pilot will be reduced.

In my current airline, we have just introduced EASA FTLS and in most cases, particularly long haul, there has been an increase in productivity meaning the company needs, very slightly, less Pilots.

Does anyone have any inside info on what BA anticipate the effect to be?

80% guys interviewed pass . Hold pool filling up . Many P2F guys who took the leap to Eastern Europe n wanna now come home to mummy .

The numbers stated at the roadshows were around 75 in the hold pool early October. No numbers on rated/non-rated mix.

- approx 50% chopped on Day 1

- 60% pass interview

- 60% pass sim

They stated the overall pass rate is around 1 in 10 and the numbers above give you around 18% so approx 10% are getting the chop between application and day 1.

jetting,

The problem for BA is that on longhaul it has traditionally relied on pilots being able to operate "back to back" trips in order to cover the work. EASA FTLs largely prevent this (there are exceptions) meaning more bodies are required.

The whole "acclimatised" thing with EASA is a bit of a red herring as regards to long haul. Aren't long haul pilots advised to stay attuned with their home time zone during trips anyway? Bit difficult with a Sydney of course but certainly doable on a back to back west coast I would have imagined, which is where the problems lie under EASA apparently. We all know EASA regs are completely ridiculous anyway and this is further proof.

Rexbanner

No, depends on length of layover. If short, in basic terms, yes, that's the advice. Min rest pax operators doing back and forth trips may achieve this with mild success.

But if long layovers its not a matter of choice. Even worse is long haul string freight trips over mulitple time zones. The body can keep up just about for the first two nights on its local clock before it succums to the inevitable.

Jet lag is extremely complex. An oft mis understood subject by shorthaul shift pilots. It's not the same as staying at home and altering your sleep pattern on days and nights. You won't achieve the same results. Sleep deprivation and jet lag aren't the same. Out of phase daylight, the environmental and cultural world around you moving in tune to a different clock, type of meals available at times of the local day. These all affect the brain and can leave you close to ruined by the end of a trip.

It's a big subject and the airline I fly for has almost a book of a manual on jet leg and how to try and cope with it. Try being the operative word. It's always going to be a damaging, unnatural process on the body that you can only do your best with.