Does TOM operate a Dublin Base during the Summer....? as I have heard they need about 30 guys , Do you think they will have trouble attracting these guys I mean will FR guys jump ship even with future uncertainty and if guys do not jump are there many more 737 ng drivers out of work with 1k hours on type...?

Well....... Cheap Holidays 2012-2013 | City Breaks | easyJet Holidays . You put together your own "charter" package. Holiday, weekend break, type of accommodation etc

A friend of mine recently went on a High St Travel Agent booked holiday to the Red Sea and flew with easyJet - pre purchased seats on the aircraft by the Tour Operator.

In terms of job security - all airlines have their unique risks. The LoCo's for example will move assets around the network to maximise profit - if you can't go with them, then.... redundant. I think the TOM package looks pretty good for a relatively new/young FO and if I were on a flexi PARC/CTC contract I'd give it some serious consideration. If I were already on a permanent contract with a stable airline - difficult one.

Good luck to all who apply.

@irishpilot1990

Type/base/Canada are all on seniority, as they should be. With the 757 reducing and the 787 still quite senior, don't think your driving anything other than a 737 soon.

As for Sunwing, this is coming to the end of its second full year and on paper is good for the summer/winter imbalance of both airlines. Tui brought into Sunwing and apparently the financial figures are stacking up well. The Canadians cover Dublin as they fly to their own SOP's etc, so it would be hard to integrate them into a Thomson base.

Speak to 100 pilots about their airline and you will get 100 answers, I don't look at it through rose tinted glasses, quite the opposite! I have a healthy number below me on the seniority list, but I still think, without the relatively minor changes in our working practices, I could have been out of a job in a couple of years. The legacy t&c's of Britannia/First Choice were unsustainable-eventually. Sure your not going to leave BA to work for us, but......

The only time we will no if we made the right choices in this industry, is the day we retire!

Oh, as my colleague a few posts said, I think, as things stand, you can take your 10 years to command and nearly double it!

From the outside looking in, this looks like the best of a bad bunch in terms of the options available to the recruitment team.

Thomson appear to be coming good to their word to those made redundant a few years back, and putting an option in front of the baby drivers. This should be applauded.

However, Thomson cast a handful (maybe 20) of their cadets back to the sea at the end of their training in 06/07. These cadets had committed to the program, backed it with their own cash, and saw it to completion. Even now, not a look in unless they found themselves on a 737 in the mean time. Shame.

Lovejoy,

They did the same to me in 1991, although they did honour their promise of a job 5 years later in 1996!

In a world where the scheduled carriers have been expanding relentlessly, eg FR/EZY/EK et al, whereas the charters have just been "consolidating", ie shrinking and merging, is surely that they will soon be benchmarking Ts and Cs with the competition in order to survive. So how long will Thomson remain at the top of the list of preferred employers?

Over Dover Over's post above matches exactly my concerns for the future of Tour Operator's in-house airlines, although the Thomson/Britannia CC have a long history of saving the airline from idiotic commercial management.

Over Dover

Most sensible post I have read for a long time - I fully agree with your sentiments.

Quote: ''The £7000 is to pay for your Operator conversion course (3 weeks of ground school and sim) and the costs associated with your line training (effectively the safety pilot for the first few sectors and the check capt on your final line check).''

About five times what it actually costs. What a crock of sh!t.

SPD
1. they undoubtedly will take a good look through the file for anyone returning
2. If they did the above without some form of recruitment process that would be technically illegal.
3. You never know, maybe the assessment may turn out to be a lot simpler than in the past (but i certainly wouldn't bet on it)

zoigberg,

With all due respect, point 2 is not correct.

It is perfectly legal (and a good idea) to allow certian applicants to skip parts of a recruitment process if they have already completed it to the necessary standard before. I have seen it with my own eyes on several occasions.

I think SCD is completely reasonable in his opinion.

Ex Thomson chaps who got the boot should be offered a job with little more than an interview. Fair and legal.

Not sure too many would disagree?

Ironically the offer isn't good enough for them though!

So what exactly does the recruitment process consist of I thought thomson would be the type of sit down and get to know you interview....??

Boeing Europe, I'm not wanting to be Pedantic but I'd make sure you spell the company name properly. Yes, the pprune spelling squad hits again! Just saying because I know how much you probably want the position. Best of luck. :ok:

Callsign Kilo thanks for the heads up but I am pretty sure I have spelled it correctly....??:E

Thomson Recruiting
 

Boeing Europe you had a p in Thomson earlier don't be so silly and take a bit of constructive criticism on the chin you are going to need to when working in an airline!

Anyways back to the thread as you did ask a good question

There was a "P" in it earlier as you can see underneath I edited it , also hence the smileys after my post , I appreciate that callsign kilo pointed it out to e.

I think someone is taking the P

been on the website and it says you need a current 737 type rating, is this correct?!

Yes, this is the case.

Spam Can

this is not pay to fly.

The reason you have to go through the whole process is partly employment law trash, partly to see if the good guys who left have become axe murderes in the last 2 years and partly to see if the bad guys have got better. Kind of simplistic but that's the gist of it.

As for the package, I beg to differ.

I personally think this is a good deal for future joiners be they cadets or experienced bods but then I would say that, I was part of the CC that negotiated it.

Equally, someone commented on the £7K cost of the OCC being a crock, about 1/5th of that I think you quoted? Could you PM me a detailed breakdown of that coz I'd love to present it to the company?

Thomson Recruiting
 

It is a good deal but the 7k regardless if it's accurate or not should be the responsibility of the company not the employee to pay

Yeoman,

I won't dispute the cost of the OCC/Line Trg as being £7k, even though that does seem a touch high. What I would question though is that this is a cost to be borne by the new joiner, rather than the company. Even 'money-grabbing' companies will bond new joiners with a TR for the cost of the OCC/Line Trg. I'm very disappointed in Thomson expecting new joiners with a TR to pay for their own OCC and Line Trg.

N74 and I'm off

No argument there but we live in an imperfect world with such things as market forces!

It came about as a result of negotiation. As you probably know, when BALPA and an airline sit down they usually start at polar opposites and the outcome depends on their relationship and lots of other issues, including market forces determine how close to whichever sides' wishlist the result is.

In this case we wanted to open up recruitment and the price was training cost repayment. For the TR guy it doesn't work so well but for the non TR guy there is a cost but the payback is no bond. Neither are satisfactory IMHO but the best we could do.

I'm not being glib when I say "if you don't like it, don't join". It is a fact of life. Apparently there has been a huge response so it would appear that a good number of people are prepared to take a short term financial hit, however immoral, in return for a career choice that suits them. Voila! Market forces.

IMHO that is not a good precedent but it does offer a good return compared with other airlines who charge for all sorts and then don't offer the return as they are rubbish places to work.

Does anyone know if it will be the old Thomson (no P :)) recruitment over 2 days with all the tests and interviews etc?

This job offer makes me realize just how bad the state of our profession is.Dogsbody bucket and spade carrier wants you to PAY for the pleasure of flying with them and its only part-time and you can be booted out anytime.And muppets sit here and say @Gosh,what a good offer it is!".Makes me puke it really does.Pilots deserve all they get.It used to be a great profession peopled by gents with breeding,guts and gumption.Now all youve got are spineless wimps whod rather sell their soul to the devil than band together and say "NO!Im not going to take this!Im going to do something about it"The beancounters must love muppets like you lot.
Not one good airline left in Britain!Not one!And in the world,maybe half a dozen left.Well.Im out of this racket soon anyway but I was still born 20 years too late.Those :mad: born in the 40's had the best of it.

Damn right.

Lousy
 

I could apply and would probably get offered a start if I jumped through the silly HR hoops correctly. But I'll stay where I am. And keep my money.Anyone who takes this is devaluing our profession. TUI stink.

Congratulations caulfield

Enjoy your retirement. If the new guys are to blame then so are you. People like yourself protected their lot and watched others take the hit. Now it has spiralled out of control. "Men of breeding, guts and gumption." Christ, for a moment I thought I was reading a novel based on the War or the Explorers of the New World. Whilst this offer may not be anywhere near the Britannia/Thomson of old, it outside BA, Monarch and Virgin is all you are going to achieve in terms of a permanent UK based contact. As you say, you are soon out of this racket. So why comment? Ive flown with many a person of your generation. The vast majority would blow hot air all day. I think the term is loading both barrelles and standing back and watching the gun go off?

Out of interest, has anyone heard anything relating to these positions?

Caulfield - 'spineless wimps' hhmm, maybe you were part of the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade who sat back and watched all this happen, so much for banding together right? :yuk:

CK, nothing heard yet, very early days though.

Heard nothing either.

You can't really blame the pilots already in Thomson for what is happening! Thomson need pilots and say to themselves let's see how low we can make the contract and see if people apply and oh look an endless supply of people willing to sign up. If you lot didn't apply then Thomson would have no choice but to improve the offer to attract the people.

No good blaming those already employed in the company for the new people willing to constantly sell their souls :=

It's been one full working day since the applications closed and you guys are expecting to have heard something! You lot must be really good. :ooh:

Caulfield, a very nice little speech there but CK has a point. Whilst it's a very easy target to point the finger about new entrants to the industry, the people who were best place to oppose the declining terms and conditions were those who were already in secure employment, with union representation and a voice; not the young bloke who has to make a choice between long-term unenmployment or a low paid flying job. Why - because most would get to retirement before it became their problem. Thanks for the legacy.

The fact that most Ryanair FOs are not interested in applying for this position should tell you a lot.

It's a vicious circle for new guys starting out in flying. If they don't sign up to it there is someone right behind them willing to and the airlines know it.

That's a fact is it? And if so, why?

Pros and cons. There are several good points about the deal, but since you ask here are some of the major negative ones.

Significant pay cut.
Less job security. Risk of company going bust or redundancies.
Part-time status.
Time to command.

Yes how so.... bar the few people who are completely blind or lucky in ryanair a large number of Ryanair guys will apply. Especially if they are from the UK.

A basic salary, transparency, a proper contract which is tax compliant and is not based with some irish ltd bogus company with directors you don't know. None of the expenses you incur in Ryanair and some respect. Plus much much more. Apart from the time to upgrade being a negative this company looks like heaven in comparison to Ryanair.

Agreed irishpilot. And there are PLENTY of pilots from Ryanair who have applied - that is a fact.

Like I said, pros and cons. You list some good points, I on request listed some bad points. It's not a clear cut preference whereas BA, Virgin, Emirates etc are no-brainers. Levels of crewroom talk reflect the different levels of interest between Thomson and the others mentioned. The issue is that although Ryanair T&Cs are non-existent, the take home is pretty reasonable and you know the company won't be going bust or laying people off in the forseeable future. It's an individual choice, but as far as I can see, far fewer individuals are interested in this one than they were in the others.

So is it fair to say that the average FR guy/gal ready for a command upgrade course i.e. 3000 to 4000 hours on type will make the jump to Thomson if an offer came to the table?

A fair few newly qualified skippers in FR gave up the left seat to come to BA.

But the majority I spoke to said Emirates or BA was the only gig they would forfeit the left seat for.

No disrespect to Thomson but I would not have thought that many command ready FOs albeit in FR would give up the chance of an upgrade course onto a 737-800.

It seems I was wrong.

Interesting times.

Does anyone on the inside know exactly how many pilots they need to recruit and if they will have problems filling these slots....?

The basic pay isn't much different for an FR first officer doing 800 hrs even with the £7000 deduction for the first year. I think I worked out there's less than a grand in it. And then the Thomson job comes with the benefits of a pension, loss of licence insurance, food, holiday etc.

Yes, the Thomson job is partly part-time but does that matter if you're paid a salary? Let's face it, in reality working for FR is also part-time and un-paid over the winter.

I suspect many FR pilots close to command upgrade would forgo the massive extra stress of being a Captain at the low fuel airline and move to Thomson.

This is especially so when you consider that FR skippers on BRK contracts will have the expense of having to commute/live away from home, fund their own pensions in full, get chased by more than one tax authority, and pay out fines when their 200 hr FO screws up a MAD SID.

And expansion stops next year so their future in FR does not look that rosey.

Interesting thoughts, but not everyone is planning on jumping ship. I for one cannot afford to take a £1000 per month pay cut to move to a part time job where I am at the bottom of the seniority list and in prime redundancy territory.

The only redeeming quality to this application is the fact it is with an employer, rather than an agency. I am far more interested in Monarch than Thomson, and that's as a former employee from the other side of the door.