Thomson is a good airline, don't get me wrong. The package offered on the PPY deal wasn't that bad. The 7K training deduction stank, however given the right base under the right circumstances, the deal appeared appealing to those wanting to build something with a reputable carrier. It could have been regarded as a step above the regular garbage that is on offer within the UK at the moment. Their CC appeared to a fought pretty hard to maintain something in line with what is currently available at Thomson.

If you leave a job on the bases that some nice HR lady has smiled sweetly and suggested that there is a possibly of a permanent position then you need your head felt. I don't care who the airline is.

If they only need crew for the summer then why not offer permanent 7 month on 5 off contracts? Surely that would tempt a few guys away from full time contracts? Otherwise they will only get the people who are desperate for the job rather than the ones who really want it!

Guys,

lets just be clear on the facts here as things are getting distorted. The 10 or so fixed term positions are in ADDITION to the 30 PPY positions on offer.

They have come about through an extra line of flying at LBA for summer 2013 only. The LBA flying ceases at end of Oct 13, and its then down to commercial as to whether the LBA line will continue in summer 14. Some of the LBA flying will most likely be covered by crews from other bases on W patterns are being bussed in top operate. Therefore, the notional 10 fixed term contracts don't all necessarily have to be based in LBA.

The CC attempted a number of initiatives to ensure this work was flown by TOM PPY new recruits and/or cadets under the new TOM scheme. These were not accepted by the company.

Anyone joining TOM needs to understand that this is an Airline that has been subject to much change since the merger in 2008 and that change will carry on for some time more I suspect.

DH

No one is in dispute about PPY not being offered. However what differentiates between a person being offered PPY and fixed term, especially when everyone who attended and then passed the assessment believed the offer would relate to the former?

Unless Thomson has assessed unemployed 737NG rated pilots then they are likely to be left short in FOs come summer. PPY was the agenda, for the 10 or greater that may have been offered fixed term, the agenda has been altered. Secondly, a person offered fixed term was given a choice between LBA, CWL or NCL; so it stretches beyond a seasonal fixture at Leeds.

To me something doesn't add up in all of this. I think it is an understatement suggesting TOM is an airline subject to much change!

I was being diplomatic.

These will be for one summer season ONLY, the CWL and NCL basing options are because pilots form these bases will be used to cover the LBA line of work.

Do not expect extensions or offer of further employment following this contract, there is a cadet scheme for further requirements. Make any choices based on this and nothing else.

I attended interview because I was under the impression a PPY job was being offered. Whilst I do feel slightly like I've been missold something, I'm hardly surprised its happened.

I also know that the offering of a fixed term contract was on the cards before or during the last round of selection, so it's not something they have thought of in the past week or two.


Thomson don't owe me anything, it's market forces fellas. Anyone in FR looking to jump ship and moaning about terms and conditions needs to take a long think about what could have possibly caused the industries terms to decline so quickly one recent years :ugh:


As I've said I can't accept a fixed term contract but will quite happily tread water for some time if it means eventually getting a permanent contract, although I'm doubtful this will come to fruition now.

Ah, so it's acceptable for Thomson and Easyjet to use fixed term summer contractors because FR are scallywags?

No, sorry, but for far too long we've heard the holier than thou attitude from the likes of Thomson and now they also decide to wag their scallies and we should excuse them because 'it's just market forces'?

Naturally, if FR didn't exist everyone would be paid £100k, have a nice fat pension and the airline industry would be chipper....

It would be more of a consideration if they never had cadets arriving in 2014 who will replace the fixed term positions. To give up a full time position for so much uncertainty would be madness.

No one in current permanent employment will take fixed term, and i'm not being disrespectful to TOM; no one would for ANY airline. HR must know this, they aren't daft; but have probably decided to play a game of 'suck it and see.' If someone does take it and considers the 'possibility' of a permanent contract as a worthy criteria for acceptance then I would have serious concern about how they approach risk assessment. Much like BA, I'd imagine Thomson are retaining numerous positions for low cost cadets and will take this option over any.

I would imagine you'll see the roles advertised with Parc, Storm, Zenon etc imminently. If they had advertised these positions as a mixture of PPY and fixed term it would have saved them the bother and possibly added a little hope for the unemployed baby FO's who would have been more inclined to take fixed term if they were still without work. But they aren't NG rated of course :ugh:

Could TOM approach the agencies? I assume this would require CC input? They now have a fresh pool of rated NG pilots with good experience and currency ready to go with a proper offer.

On the new ppy contract, does the salary rise with inflation? Does anyone know?

monkey, the PPY contracts are on an incremental scale, I forget the details. However on top of that the scales are subject to annual pay reviews and 99% of the time rise in relation to inflation.

The usual game is the CC ask for RPI + 15%, the company suggest RPI minus 3% and they usually meet somewhere around RPI plus a bit.

Ok that's great. Thanks a lot.

Any chat from within about the recent recruitment with how many got PPY and whats the current outlook with the fixed term etc

As commented in other posts, the recruitment was carried out for PPY jobs at various bases. These are permanent positions. I was supposed to go to Luton to conduct a recruitment day recently, but it was cancelled at the last minute...don't know why. With regard to the other offer of temporary contracts, these are over and above the requirement for permanent contracts and relate to an extra aircrafts worth of work out of Leeds for next summer. Originally this was going to be operated by another operator but has now been brought in house. Until such time as the Company decide whether this will continue beyond next summer they are planning to use contract pilots for this summer only. Other additional flying has been secured out of Edinburgh, and this will be operated by a sister airline Sunwing (Canadian) which is part of the TUI group. We currently send pilots and aircraft out to Canada in our quieter winter season which is their peak time, and they then have a reciprocal arrangement in our busy summer season when they are quiet in Canada. In the past they have operated out of Ireland, but for next summer will crew this programme out of Edinburgh.

Hi Matey

I understand SWG are crewing EDI in addition to Ireland next year, not instead of??

@DasHead

So what is/could be the reasoning behind offering the temp gigs whilst only 18 PPY's in total have been offered? And more importantly, why offer them to the guys who applied for PPY? and to quote the nice young lady from my assessment day..."you may see some fixed term positions advertised later this year but they won't effect you"? I'd like to think that it really is "we are still working on our establishment requirements for next year", but I fear it may be a cheap trick, stop gap, fill-a-void scenario whilst TOM wait for cheaper cadets for 2014??? But then again I am a conspiracy theorist :ok:

Nine forks
Indeed, apologies if my post was misleading. The EDI work to be done by Sunwing is in addition to their regular Irish operation. There are rumblings from Transport Canada that any reciprocal flying should be on a "one for one" basis. At the moment our crews fly a lot more work in Canada than Sunwing do here, so the argument could be made for using Sunwing for the likes of the LBA work as well rather than contract pilots, in order to protect the number of crews and aircraft currently sent to Canada in the winter. At the moment the EDI and LBA work is a" testing the water" operation. Should it prove viable then it could lead to more PPY positions being created, or more Sunwing aircraft......who knows.

Hypothetical Fleet Question.........
 

Thomson have a mixed fleet of 737NGs, 757s, 767-300s and now 787s coming online in the next few months. Thomson have 13 firm 787 orders and 13 787 options. Not certain how many will be operated exclusively out of the UK.

It is pure speculation and anything can happen, but is it reasonable to think Thomson will likely replace all 767s with 787s and take the full options for a total of 26 787s? Are we talking an eventual dual fleet of 737NGs and 787s in the long term? Any "informed" predictions or thoughts? :confused::cool:

TUI has 13 firm orders and 13 options, NOT Thomson. The aircraft will be operated by Thomson (UK), JetairFly (Belgium), TuiFly Nordic and ArkeFly (Netherlands).

Cheers for the update. Hopefully TUI will eventually exercise the options and spread them around to the different groups. Anyone know how many likely to be operated by Thomson out of the firm order?

From a mate at Arkefly, so don't take it as fact. :=

Thomson = 7
JetairFly = 2
Nordic = 1
ArkeFly = 3

But as usual anything can change.

Thomson are taking 8, first two to be delivered in Feb (G-TUIA/TUIB) and then two in Apr (G-TUIC/TUID), 5th sometime in Dec (G-TUIE). Again as the above has posted anything can change though.

Mate of mine flies the good-ole 757 for another carrier and has several thousand hours on it.

What is the likelihood, if Thomson continues to hire, that a spot on the 757 fleet become available (any UK base)? Or are all newhires at Thomson basically starting on the 737NG these days?

Cheers

Dream on for the 757. Too good a plane and too many people not wanting to leave it. Expect all 737 positions for the eternity. Then a say 6yr plus wait for a sniff at the 787. Before you get too exited that will probably require a base change as well.

With 100+ conversions from Airbus and 75/76 fleets onto the 737 this winter alone the chances of recruitment onto the 756 fleet are zero. The growing 737 fleet will progressively take on more and more of the short/mid haul programme, and the 787 is replacing the 767. Some 757s will be retained to fly routes better suited to them than the 737, but there will be no recruitment needed for that. As for the 787, that represents a lifestyle choice (100% longhaul) that significant numbers are choosing to forego. As a result the list of pilots moving to the 787 stretches significantly down the seniority list.

Good point matey but the the 787 went more senior on the last bid!

Does anyone have a theory on how a delay to the 787 would affect the current plans? do you think they may have to dip into the hold pool for some additional recruitment?

How successful was the fixed term recruitment? if anyone knows!

As far as the 787 situation is concerned all we have are internal communications of a very generic nature expressing faith etc etc.

The following are being touted as being for TOM, but I don't know if that is the case. I'm afraid I'm not clever enough to produce them as clickable links.

Non type rated 737NG Low hour first officers with C & M Recruitment Ltd | 465079

First Officer 737 Type Rated with C & M Recruitment Ltd | 465166

Oh...it did it for me!!

Thanks Matey, It was my understanding that TOM pilots would highly oppose the use of contract agencies?

The posts are advertised as permanent positions. Maybe TOM couldn't get anyone on the original temporary terms for Leeds, but this is speculation as I stress this may not even be for TOM. The UK/ Canada description fits, but why they wouldn't advertise under the TOM name doesn't though. Then there is the question of the hold pool people, none of which I have any answers for I'm afraid.

Just curious - Why are some Thomson call signs "Castrol" (what the heck does this word mean - is it the oil company?) whereas other Thomson flights are "Thomson?"

And we watched a Thomson call-sign 767 landing in Barbados the other day. Aircraft however was painted "First Choice." CA and I were trying to figure out what the correlation was. Code share?

it's not Castrol, it's Kestrel :8
from wikipedia:
In March 2008, the tourism division of the airline's parent group TUI AG, merged with First Choice Holidays PLC, forming the new company TUI Travel. Both Thomsonfly and First Choice Airways would be merged as Thomson Airways.
Thomsonfly Limited changed its name to Thomson Airways Limited in November 2008 and the Thomsonfly operating certificate was changed to Thomson Airways with effect from 1 November 2008. On that date, Thomsonfly and First Choice Airways both rebranded their operations to Thomson Airways, merging with a fleet of 75 aircraft. There is however an order of 12 new Boeing 787 aircraft which will make the fleet 75 once more.

Sure someone will beat me to this but... Thomson and First Choice Airways used to be two separate airlines, but merged their operations a few years back and now operate under the "Thomson" name and callsign. The aircraft still in the old First Choice livery are leaving the fleet before too long, so were not re-painted.

On the subject of "Castrol" - are you sure you're not confusing Thomson and Thomas Cook Airlines? Thomas Cook use the callsign "Kestrel".

Yes! thank you Zippy, I was confusing the two. So they are 2 different airlines then?

While on that note - where did "KESTREL" come from - owner's name maybe? And does Thomas Cook still exist or have they merged with someone else?

Thanks for the info.

kestral was the callsign for airtours which i believe became mytravel which then became thomas cook which then became thomson.

miss those days so much when the airport was much more colourful with plenty of different liveries. Now there are about 4 different ones:

easyjet
ryanair
thomson
jet 2

Pilotho
 

Thomas Cook and Thomson are two very separate company's.

(and the call sign is Kestrel)

Airtours became MyTravel.
Flying Colours became JMC became Thomas Cook.
These two merged (with a few others I've missed) to become (still) Thomas Cook. Their callsign is Kestrel.

Britannia became Thomsonfly.
Air2000 became First Choice Airways.
These two merged to become Thomson Airways. Their callsign is Thomson.

It's been that way since about 2008 so just as that becomes clear stand by for the next re-shuffle! (No, I don't know anything, just guessing)

Ok, the history lesson on UK charter airlines has been facinating, however can we get back to the topic of Thomson recruitment. I know a number of guys who are waiting in the pool both anxious and at the same time disappointed with recent precedings, if indeed confirmed to be true.